Funny how all the other reviewers of the BRZ pretty much say it's the same but you're able to not only feel the differences but demonstrate it and explain it clearly... Nothing like this channel on youtube.... keep up the good work
To be fair, his modded setup creates a much bigger gap in performance and feel compared to stock base BRZ. Obviously there's going to be more differences that can be noted and felt. This isn't stock BRZ vs tS. This is modded BRZ vs tS
Great review. For most of us who are 99% of the crowd here will never experience the limits of steering, nor oil starvation 😂. I love my Gen 1 and will modify it for street use
New TS owner here. Really interesting and well-reasoned video! On Toronto streets I feel that the soft spring/stiff rebound combo rides well. The springs soak up mild bumps while the dampers recover swiftly from our many dips and potholes. From your footage and commentary, it’s sensible that at much higher piston speeds (bumps, heavy braking), the forward weight transfer may be slightly too sharp under braking for the front tires, and apex curbs may unsettle the balance. Meanwhile, at low piston speeds the car rolls a bit too much, overwhelming the outside tires and causing understeer? Of course, we’re talking about a bone stock car here… Subbed!
I think you're doing the best driving dynamics analysis on these cars, great job! Is there a performance based reason why you chose the BRZ rather than GR86? As a BRZ owner it's nice to see it being featrured, seems there's so much content favors GR86 over BRZ. Also, the black color on the BRZ is fire - I want to trade in my silver 2022!
Hey!! @900BRZ ! We should touch base. Maybe message us on Instagram? Just did some oil pressure logging with a bone stock brz without oil cooler. Will be presenting the data in a video. In edit now. ..!
The new BRZ has direct and port fuel injection, being a Auto technician all my life, that fuel system setup seems to be the best option for fuel performance throughout the entire RPM range and will have less intake carbonization, I am looking for a car that is fun to drive and will give me a desire to drive it, I ride motorcycles everywhere for that reason, driving a car seems like a chore, I want to find a car that gives me the same excitement, I really like the specs BRZ TS and hope it can give me what I am looking for. The BRZ also looks way better than the Toyota GR86. Thank you for this review !!
I think Subaru designed the power steering like this intentionally. I really appreciate a heavy steering feedback when loading the front end up in a braking zone. I prefer this because it communicates to me when I am out of my trail braking and when I can begin transitioning back to throttle. Hard to explain why I prefer it in words but I believe it offers another line of direct communication to the driver. --- Great videos man, I hope to get up to Canadian Tire very soon with the 86.
Regarding the rev hang, I have read that this can be fixed by installing a "throttle controller", a digital device that changes the car's throttle response including rev hang on shifts. Not sure whether one of these would put you in a higher mod bracket in the racing rules.
A pedal commander total fits throttle response. But I don’t track mine and at some point you gotta stop dumping money into you “road sports car” They’re also a major hassle to install and wire. I love my BRZ. A simple axel back made a huge difference to drivability because you can hear the engine so much better. Removing the charcoal filter from the air box is another huuuuge must. Love driving this car so much
Great comparison video! I’ve found the Perrin 22mm front sway bar on full stiff with the 19mm rear sway bar on full soft helps with the entry understeer and slight exit oversteer on stock suspension
Great video - absolutely A+++ In your opinion, would we improve cornering with Eibach Lowering Springs (for how much) ? Would we drastically shorten the life of Dampers with Eibach Springs ?
I can see how a lot of this can be subjective too. I love my gen2's stock setup, but it's sensitivity to trail braking isn't everyone's cup of tea. I think you hit the nail on the head with the non-ts being setup to be fast rather than sporty.
Wow, this video was very informative. I haven't seen anyone go this in-depth about the suspension. I saw some used KW v3 on the FB market and thought about it. But for street driving, I kinda really like the stock brz suspension, I feel like they did a good job; and I drive my car pretty hard. Now I do wonder about how the GR handles, I also want some camber for those tight ramps. I understand that tighter lower springs would make it a little more unstable on the highway...and this one wasn't even lowered lol...I recently got some Conti EWS06+, so maybe it'd be worth it to grab those KW's because if it ain't a decent driving coil, I'm not messing with it, but I'm definitely curious. Even if just for camber alone, and maybe 1 inch less gap =P /endrant
Also gen2 owner here, and for me, rev hang the number 1 gripe no doubt. Thank god the issue is less bad at higher revs tho. When you say power steering won’t keep up when you load up the wheels, can you elaborate bit more of that please?
Essentially, There is a sudden steering stiffness under high load. The power steering rack cuts out as if it can't keep up with the loads generated on high-g corners or big transitions. As some have said…This is NOT being caused by tire binding on the strut, it happens even in stock form if you are REALLY pushing the car. At 8/10ths and below, you won’t experience this. It’s not a huge issue, just a bit annoying and disappointing. I will say that really strong power steering like in the newer bmw’s… really makes it numb… so it’s a balance between feel, and assist… Cheers.
Thoughts on CAE vs IRP for the shifter? EDIT: I wonder if the change to steel knuckles was to make the Brembos fit without changes from first gen. I know Essex had to revise their kits to work on 2nd gen. On the plus side, the whiteline roll center kit works with steel knuckles, but not alu. I "had to" get SPL LCAs and tie rods to get roll center correction on my 23 BRZ.
@@DriversPaddock Would pairing the "STI Lowering springs" with the Hitachis be a possible improvement? Or is it better to just pony up the cash for coilovers?
@@CanyonDanCars adding more spring rate to these dampers won’t work. It’ll make it worse. They’re already more resistant to compression and rebound faster. IMO, the no TS suspension is already the sweet spot. If you want a stiffer spring, you’ll need less compression damping and more rebound damping than the TS offers.
@@DriversPaddockquick question, if the brz's main purpose was drifting and not grip driving, do you think the oil starvation is an issue with the lower generated g force?
How’s your feeling compared the brz to 718? Especially handling. Currently I own a zd8, I left a deposit for a 2.5t 718 gts, but I am concerned I may regret it.
What on earth does "power steering can't handle the corners" mean? On a _new car???_ Whatever the problem is, it's unacceptable in a car explicitly intended for this kind of use. I hope there's a fix, and would expect it to be done for free if I owned one
Im still satisfied with my 23 brz...brembos would look nice and the performance no real difference then pad/fluid swap with standard caliper. TS are Over priced for what you get.
Might be worse for the track, but it handles bumps in everyday driving better. It's not really a track set up. I think they realize for the track, they would have to change much more.
![FA24 Short Block x FA20 Heads Engine Swap - [Best BRZ or GR86 I Have Ever Driven - Track Review]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/T_lDE35pWpQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![FA24 Short Block x FA20 Heads Engine Swap - [Best BRZ or GR86 I Have Ever Driven - Track Review]](/img/tr.png)
![Gen 1 Track Use Subaru BRZ Review - [Best Track Car Under $15,000]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ggQCUEF0mJs/mqdefault.jpg)
![BRZ & GR86 Oil Starvation Even In Stock Form - [2024 Current State Technical Discussion]](/img/1.gif)
Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about and can actually tell us and show us the difference between TS and non TS
Funny how all the other reviewers of the BRZ pretty much say it's the same but you're able to not only feel the differences but demonstrate it and explain it clearly... Nothing like this channel on youtube.... keep up the good work
To be fair, his modded setup creates a much bigger gap in performance and feel compared to stock base BRZ. Obviously there's going to be more differences that can be noted and felt. This isn't stock BRZ vs tS. This is modded BRZ vs tS
Great review. For most of us who are 99% of the crowd here will never experience the limits of steering, nor oil starvation 😂. I love my Gen 1 and will modify it for street use
Properly explained driving impression, finally someone who know what he’s talking about liked and subscribed
Why am I holding my breath 😭😭😭😭
This is awesome
That little bit of revhang really gets under my skin in daily use I’m glad he mentioned it
New TS owner here. Really interesting and well-reasoned video! On Toronto streets I feel that the soft spring/stiff rebound combo rides well. The springs soak up mild bumps while the dampers recover swiftly from our many dips and potholes. From your footage and commentary, it’s sensible that at much higher piston speeds (bumps, heavy braking), the forward weight transfer may be slightly too sharp under braking for the front tires, and apex curbs may unsettle the balance. Meanwhile, at low piston speeds the car rolls a bit too much, overwhelming the outside tires and causing understeer? Of course, we’re talking about a bone stock car here… Subbed!
Great insights, love the POV view. Subscribed!
Best TS review yet! Subscribed
Amazing in depth breakdown of the Hitachi dampers and handling comparison between the TS and standard model. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
I think you're doing the best driving dynamics analysis on these cars, great job! Is there a performance based reason why you chose the BRZ rather than GR86? As a BRZ owner it's nice to see it being featrured, seems there's so much content favors GR86 over BRZ. Also, the black color on the BRZ is fire - I want to trade in my silver 2022!
It was between the black or Silver for me and glad I picked the silver.
This is the best comparison I've seen with the TS-thank you!
Hey!! @900BRZ ! We should touch base. Maybe message us on Instagram? Just did some oil pressure logging with a bone stock brz without oil cooler. Will be presenting the data in a video. In edit now. ..!
The new BRZ has direct and port fuel injection, being a Auto technician all my life, that fuel system setup seems to be the best option for fuel performance throughout the entire RPM range and will have less intake carbonization, I am looking for a car that is fun to drive and will give me a desire to drive it, I ride motorcycles everywhere for that reason, driving a car seems like a chore, I want to find a car that gives me the same excitement, I really like the specs BRZ TS and hope it can give me what I am looking for. The BRZ also looks way better than the Toyota GR86. Thank you for this review !!
Love this. Keep up the great, informative work!
I think Subaru designed the power steering like this intentionally. I really appreciate a heavy steering feedback when loading the front end up in a braking zone. I prefer this because it communicates to me when I am out of my trail braking and when I can begin transitioning back to throttle. Hard to explain why I prefer it in words but I believe it offers another line of direct communication to the driver. --- Great videos man, I hope to get up to Canadian Tire very soon with the 86.
*Mosport
Regarding the rev hang, I have read that this can be fixed by installing a "throttle controller", a digital device that changes the car's throttle response including rev hang on shifts. Not sure whether one of these would put you in a higher mod bracket in the racing rules.
A pedal commander total fits throttle response. But I don’t track mine and at some point you gotta stop dumping money into you “road sports car”
They’re also a major hassle to install and wire. I love my BRZ. A simple axel back made a huge difference to drivability because you can hear the engine so much better. Removing the charcoal filter from the air box is another huuuuge must. Love driving this car so much
Great video and looking forward to part 2.
wow! i love your content!!!
great stuff. looking forward to GT350R part 2.
Great comparison video! I’ve found the Perrin 22mm front sway bar on full stiff with the 19mm rear sway bar on full soft helps with the entry understeer and slight exit oversteer on stock suspension
Maybe some people just prefer a little more exit oversteer plus its probably more fun right ?
Great video - absolutely A+++ In your opinion, would we improve cornering with Eibach Lowering Springs (for how much) ? Would we drastically shorten the life of Dampers with Eibach Springs ?
I’m having a crisis… have an ND2 Miata and drove my buddies GR on track this weekend. I am regretting my decision. LOL
Interesting, would you say the ts is closer to the behavior of gr86?
I can see how a lot of this can be subjective too. I love my gen2's stock setup, but it's sensitivity to trail braking isn't everyone's cup of tea. I think you hit the nail on the head with the non-ts being setup to be fast rather than sporty.
Sorry if I missed it but is your white BRZ that you're comparing to stock? If not what mods did you have at the time of comparison?
Wow, this video was very informative. I haven't seen anyone go this in-depth about the suspension. I saw some used KW v3 on the FB market and thought about it. But for street driving, I kinda really like the stock brz suspension, I feel like they did a good job; and I drive my car pretty hard. Now I do wonder about how the GR handles, I also want some camber for those tight ramps. I understand that tighter lower springs would make it a little more unstable on the highway...and this one wasn't even lowered lol...I recently got some Conti EWS06+, so maybe it'd be worth it to grab those KW's because if it ain't a decent driving coil, I'm not messing with it, but I'm definitely curious. Even if just for camber alone, and maybe 1 inch less gap =P /endrant
Also gen2 owner here, and for me, rev hang the number 1 gripe no doubt. Thank god the issue is less bad at higher revs tho. When you say power steering won’t keep up when you load up the wheels, can you elaborate bit more of that please?
Essentially, There is a sudden steering stiffness under high load. The power steering rack cuts out as if it can't keep up with the loads generated on high-g corners or big transitions. As some have said…This is NOT being caused by tire binding on the strut, it happens even in stock form if you are REALLY pushing the car. At 8/10ths and below, you won’t experience this. It’s not a huge issue, just a bit annoying and disappointing.
I will say that really strong power steering like in the newer bmw’s… really makes it numb… so it’s a balance between feel, and assist…
Cheers.
saw the reddit post. I'm glad I checked it out. what would you add to the daily driver though? 🤔💭
Have you tried the STI Flexible V-bars? If so, do they make a difference in steering and handling or are they a gimmick?
Please test the 2024 WRX RS/TR
Thoughts on CAE vs IRP for the shifter?
EDIT: I wonder if the change to steel knuckles was to make the Brembos fit without changes from first gen. I know Essex had to revise their kits to work on 2nd gen. On the plus side, the whiteline roll center kit works with steel knuckles, but not alu. I "had to" get SPL LCAs and tie rods to get roll center correction on my 23 BRZ.
LETS SEE THE 2024 “TRUENO EDITION” GR86 ON THE TRACK! 🚗💨 🙌🏽
Great video. Can’t get info like this anywhere else. What do you think you’ll do about the suspension here? Coilovers or leave stock as a daily?
After I film the comparison, the black car will be getting RCE Tarmac 2’s… the white car? Stay tuned.
@@DriversPaddock Would pairing the "STI Lowering springs" with the Hitachis be a possible improvement? Or is it better to just pony up the cash for coilovers?
@@CanyonDanCars adding more spring rate to these dampers won’t work. It’ll make it worse. They’re already more resistant to compression and rebound faster. IMO, the no TS suspension is already the sweet spot. If you want a stiffer spring, you’ll need less compression damping and more rebound damping than the TS offers.
Still no stock front camber adjustment, huh?
There is some, I just haven’t touched it yet. I wanted to drive it stock, as it came from factory.
Which dealership did you buy the BRZ ts from? Looking for a good dealership experience (hate dealerships)
Look for Jason H at buds Subaru !
@@DriversPaddockWhat transmission and diff fluid do you use ?
Excellent driving skills. 👍
@@DriversPaddockquick question, if the brz's main purpose was drifting and not grip driving, do you think the oil starvation is an issue with the lower generated g force?
How’s your feeling compared the brz to 718? Especially handling. Currently I own a zd8, I left a deposit for a 2.5t 718 gts, but I am concerned I may regret it.
Watch my cayman T review. You won’t regret moving from a BRZ to a 718… just make sure you have an LSD optioned.
@@DriversPaddock Hhh, I watched the 718t video and become your fan, PTV for sure!!!
Are you running 0W-20 oil still?
0W-30 300V
Where did you get the car from?
Best sales in the game. Jason Hoang GT
People thought i was crazy buying a second BRZ but they just dont know what this car is all about.
I’m sorry, just clarifying.
You own a 2023 and a 2024?
Correct. One is a daily and one is slowly becoming a full send track car!
@ that shit cray cray
🙌
❤❤❤❤
What on earth does "power steering can't handle the corners" mean? On a _new car???_
Whatever the problem is, it's unacceptable in a car explicitly intended for this kind of use. I hope there's a fix, and would expect it to be done for free if I owned one
Thanks for the insightful video! Please lose the music though.
I didn't know laptimers were able to read that high of a time.🔫🔫🔫
😂 why must you be like this. Please don’t make me Beat your track prepped GTI again…
@@DriversPaddock track prepped is an overstatement
Im still satisfied with my 23 brz...brembos would look nice and the performance no real difference then pad/fluid swap with standard caliper. TS are Over priced for what you get.
Good stuff, thanks! We should talk
Might be worse for the track, but it handles bumps in everyday driving better. It's not really a track set up. I think they realize for the track, they would have to change much more.