The BRZ looks great. 228 HP should be plenty of power for a sports car of that size and a capable 6 speed manual. Guess young people still enjoy the driving experience.
eh at least these engines are good at making power. unfortunately you have to lose your warranty benefits to actually enjoy the power this engine can offer
what about auto rev match? I don't care about purist-esqu arguments, I'd let the car do it for me (rev matching) while I row the gears as needed. Include a on/off button for the purists/Lewis and Marios out there.
@@BIGGIEBAG-XL yes - I currently only have an intake and a tune for both 93 and E30 (New engines fueling is E capable from factory). On 93 im at 338whp/364ftlbs and on E30 365whp/400tq. A full 100+ WHP/WTQ gain with simply an intake and a tune, definitely a beast.
The only reason they sell any of these at all is the value for money. The performance to price ratio of the BRZ is spot on. Once you start adding too many extra feature, the car quickly becomes way too expensive for the target buyer to afford and it won't sell. This tS has some nice upgrades that put it right at the tiptop price that most enthusiasts would be willing to pay. They know what they're doing.
Agreed. Car manufacturers are really deaf to the market with these ridiculous offerings. I wouldn't pay a dollar over $35k for an absolutely maxed out WRX.
@@GOD999MODEFor real. Msrp on this car is definitely overpriced and the market is proof of that. In my area, premium trim with the sunroof, Harmon Kardon can be had for 32k pretty easily.
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks Well that's the thing, I felt like I was the only one complaining about the Type R being way too expensive. The S650 mustangs are way too expensive too, but it also has no competition now. I'm more lenient towards the WRX because none of the other cars offered AWD, until you go to the GR Corolla and Golf R tiers.
I know this isn't the first BRZ video, but sometimes we forget that it has both; Port and Direct Fuel Injection. Yes, hence why it was co-developed with Toyota. Great video, Ryan.
Thats isnt really "why" it eas developed with Toyota. They bring a lot more to the table that just fuel injection. The ECU, transmission, differential, chassis, and most electronics are all Toyota.
@@boost331 No way. All technical development by Subaru. Some parts, suspension tuning - from Toyota for GR86. Subaru has built themselves both original and this models. Toyota only gave some money.
@@alextitov75 Im not sure how you can say "no way" when I literally listed a laundry list of parts that are supplied by Toyota. Far more of the car is Toyota parts than Subaru. It does get built in a Subaru plant with a boxer engine, but Toyota contributes way more parts. I own a well modded 2022 BRZ and can tell you for fact tons of parts have Toyota stamped on them.
@@boost331 "far more of the car is toyota parts than subaru" is just wrong. I am a new gen brz owner too and the toyota parts are the infotainment, some interior switches (like the indicator stalk assembly), the gearbox, diff, epas system and many of the ecu components. All the parts we just listed on the floor wouldn't even begin to resemble a car. Yes, toyota had a huge influence designing and engineering the car, but being built in the Gunma plant inherently means there will be more subaru PARTS. The toyota badges have subaru stamped in the back of them lmao.
@@jay18394 Ok. All the important parts. Dont forget the chassis itself too is a toyota platform. If you are judging how much is made by who based on the size of parts thats a pretty dumb way to tally it up. The engine, brakes, and a few tidbits here and there are subaru parts. The rest is toyota. Its built in a subaru plant, sure but with the exception of the engine every important part that makes the pile of parts into a functioning car is made by toyota.
Great video, I own a 2023 BRZ and agree with all your talking points on the tS. It’s a phenomenal driver’s car and I will be keeping mine for a long time to come.
I've got to admit, of the half dozen car channels I'm subscribed to, I didn't expect you to be the first to show me the BRZ tS that I've been so looking forward to, and I'm so happy that you did. 😎😎
I definitely understand your mpg point, I didn't care about my mpg in the past. However, I did get 25mpg in my 2013 brz after a decade of fun and driving hard, even during my commutes. Whether or not that is good or bad is subjective. I wouldn't be able to swallow 15mpg, but hey, some people can.
I would've preferred if they sold that trim with all it currently includes (brembos included) and the STI add-ons like the aero, exhaust, short shifter, etc, for that price. Then rename it to WRX TD for tuner done. I get that the STI is being held back so they can make a significant comeback in a few years, but come on!
I have a 2011 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 2.5l (naturally aspirated) 5-speed manual with 211 hp (with some work). It's a 5-door hatchback, blue on top and gray down low. I love it! The estimated gas mileage is hooligan 15 to 22 mpg, and for everyday driving, 22 to 33 mpg. I'll never be able to replace it, lol. I'm very interested in the new Subaru Brat. I'd like an SUV in my 2-car garage. Maintenance is vital with Subaru, but if you can commit to that, they're fantastic. My Subaru takes me everywhere, down wooden paths to the beaches, camping, fish, sports, and hiking site(s). Road trips throughout New England are chased all year long, no matter what the weather likes. But more importantly, it always brings me back home safe and sound. I'm stoked to see the availability of manuals in Subaru. It will keep me shopping solely with Subaru. If you are looking for a nice ride, even if you are in the used car marketing, check Subaru out and get your money's worth out of your next car. Just sayin'
unfortunately no, because we don't get either the WRC or the BRZ ts; we briefly got the BRZ for the last couple of months of 2023 and now it is all gone. Legislation in Europe is written in such a way that you have extremely low CO2 average on your fleets(the whole numbers and models) and, unfortunately, Subaru in Europe doesn't have to much of an electrified offering and so, the BRZ with the high-ish CO2 numbers would mean big fees for Subaru to pay..it would simply mean they couldn't afford to do business here in Europe; note one thing, if it weren't for the gazillion of Taycans, Porsche would also have to pay fees for exceeding fleet average CO2 limits; basically, Taycans are the reason Porsche can sell unbothered the rest of their lineup. Toyota managed to introduce the GR86 but only 4000 pcs for two years of selling on all EU market, limiting the number of sold units in order to not exceed the average fleet CO2 limit. If I wouldn't know any better, and I don't, I'd say that the current EU laws on emissions are tailored made for french manufacturers(who dropped all of their fast/performance vehicles) and start focusing 100% on EVs, as well as for Tesla, with their big factory in Germany.
Great pricing on that TR! Just wish Subaru would have freaking released it at launch and I’d be in one of those instead of my limited wishing I had brembos and some handling tweaks
I'd have really enjoyed having the STI transmission and those brakes on the 2023 Solar Orange model I have. Otherwise, it's a really good car, and I enjoy driving it in an all season environment. Oh, and port injection for a dual setup and about 300 horsepower with less torque limiting in the first two gears would have been nice too.
Great video, but I think both cars are a bit pricey, especially considering how good of a value proposition Subarus have typically been. I realize inflation is a thing, but several thousand dollars on a car is very different from $20 or $30 dollars more on your grocery bill. I think for what your getting the BRZ tS should be closer to $33,000, and a WRX at $42k seems insane to me if it doesn't have an STI badge on it. The WRX TR should really be closer to $37k or $38k, while the base WRX base trim should start under $30k. Maybe that's just my brain not keeping up with inflation, but I don't think most people's pay checks are either and I don't think they're going to sell as many of these at those prices. You can't put off buying groceries, but most people can put off buying a new car. Also, since wanting to have EyeSight in every model was Subaru's stated reason for dropping the manual transmission from the Crosstrek, did you ask them if they were going to bring the manual back as an option now that they can have EyeSight with a manual transmission? While I would love a turbocharged Crosstrek to replace the old WRX wagon/hatchback, realistically the FB25 is pretty much all the power you need in a Crosstrek daily driver. Literally the only thing keeping me from going down to my Subaru dealer and ordering a new Crosstrek Wilderness is the lack of a manual transmission. While I would love a BRZ and have strongly considered buying one, where I live in northern Michigan would relegate it to a summer only car, so until they bring the manual transmission back to the Crosstrek or Forester, Subaru doesn't have a new car in their lineup that I would be willing to buy. Unfortunately, I think that might put me in the minority, but a manual transmission is such a better driving experience than an automatic, including their CVT (which I have driven in 2 different Crosstreks and an Outback that are owned by family members). Please Santa (and Subaru), all I want for Christmas is a Crosstrek Wilderness with a manual transmission.😢
I'm with you. I'd have a new 2.5RS in a heartbeat if it could be had with a manual transmission. I'm not sure what I'm going to replace my 2017 Impreza Sport 5-speed daily driver with, but it won't likely be a Subaru. I've done the WRX thing three times and loved the performance, but grew tired of the relatively poor gas mileage PLUS the price-gouging at the pump on premium fuel, never mind the insurance premiums.
@@garypatrick3001 Yeah, my 2006 Subaru Outback Sport started falling apart 2 years ago and I ended up buying a used 2017 Forester Premium to replace it. I wanted a new Crosstrek because I liked the size and handling, but if you wanted a manual transmission you had to give up basically every other option, and since most dealers near me didn't get manuals as regular stock I would've had to order one. That meant waiting 6 to 8 months to get the car and I didn't have that kind of time with my old car falling apart. Unless something changes at Subaru, my first new car is likely to be a Honda or Toyota.
@@seanmackay6739 I sense some irony there. I understand Ryan isn't an expert on this topic (I don't assume he is). However, I was curious if the press had the chance to discuss and hear from Subaru on the matter. That's why I asked.
Thanks for the review as we are in the.market for a new car and Subaru is on he cards. Also thanks for highlighting the bad roads in Sicily to avoid. You'd think they'd have such an iconic road in perfect condition. Thanks for sharing
probably they want to keep lunatics(read enthusiasts) with more or less money and fast cars, go there and throw themselves on the side of the mountains.
Not sure if it’s the same for the brz but for my STI i can hold the trac mode button down for 5 seconds and it’ll take traction control all the way off and you can have some real fun
What an epic route! You should team up with Everyday Driver for a project. They have a similar large format style and I’d love to see your discussions!
Lots of folks are complaining about the price of these cars. However, the AVERAGE transaction for a new car currently is north of the mid 40’s. So for a top end sports car trim (BRZts) and a one step down from top trim(WRXtr) for roughly 37 and 43k is pretty good IMO. I’m not excusing the high prices of current vehicles, but A, try to find another top spec sports car for under 45k. And B) get used to the prices, they ain’t gonna come down. Our parents/grandparents are probably straight passing out at current car prices considering a brand new car could be easily had for 3 grand back when. It’s just the march of progress and time. So complain all you want, but comparatively these are good values as Subaru has historically been.
Reverse off of first on a 6 speed is SOOOOOO welcomed! This way, you wont accidentally shift into reverse at high speed...you may shift into reverse instead of first though.
I've been saving up years to get a Miata Club, but for a similar price the BRZ tS is a compelling alternative. The additional practicality and interior space compared to Miata is welcome, especially as a daily driver, but of course you're giving up the convertible which is a huge compromise. That's why this is such a tough decision. Both amazing cars that won't be around much longer.
Well done! I is so good to see someone who understands what driving is all about out. I sold my 1969 Camero SS for a 1970 Fiat 124 Spyder. You know what? That little Fiat was way more fun! As I recall it, had a 1.4L engine with around 95 hp. Torque was non-existent. Would not go over 100 with the top down. Too much drag. I could get 104 with the top up. The thing was, you had to really DRIVE that little car to get anything out of it. Faster than my Camero? Of course not. But carving down a mountain road with the top down, redlining every shift - apexing on every 25, 30, 35, and 45 mph curve, catching the upshift coming out of the corners. Nothing like it. You, my man, get it… Thanks.
Amazing video, thanks for the quality! But you didn't address the EyeSight with the manual transmission. It would have been good for at least a few minutes to hear your opinion.
We couldn’t really get into it because the cars were not configured for Italian road markings. Will have to do a more thorough test back in the states.
nice save on your BRZ drive - does the "eyesight" system intrude on you vision as badly as it does on the imprezza/crosstrek ??? (What were they thinking - it blocks half my view ! )
I'm interested. How did you get those cars to Europe? They're not on sale in Europe definitely not in the UK.Subaru didn't import The current WRX or BRZ. Having owned a Gt86, last gen BRZ and now GR86. The GR86 is now banned in all of EUROPE.
Cars don't need to drive aggressive to have fun. When you get aggressive, you end up in jail. With little throttle and almost no braking, It's enough to stay over illegal speed in mountain roads. So gas mileage means a lot to me. Normally I get 20% better efficiency than factory stated mpg.
Subaru pissing off europeans by showing the new WRX in Sicily and not selling it in Europe. Thanks eyesightbaru, keep your CVT Crosstreks, I'll keeep my old WRX running while I still can.
Driving tests that we deserved. A subaru wrx on a regular road sticking to the speed limits. Awesome. But I’d say camry or any cheap hatchback with a cvt will be more impressive.
@@fortheloveofnoiseWe do get a lot of rain tho. But you're right. I live right up by TN, and driven all year around on the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s that came on my 22 BRZ.
The only thing we can hardly add to a WRX is the STI transmission.. SUBARU could have skipped everything else and just included the STI transmission and the car would have driven itself out of the dealers' lots..
“Not very expensive car” *$42k* A GR Corolla MSRP is $36k, with the required dealer packages it’s $40-42K without markups. I’d rather hold out for that. No excuse for the TR to not have 300hp from the factory.
Swing and a ……. single here for Subaru not a home run which the Subaru enthusiast community deserved after being shafted with the elimination of the STI. No power bump to say 300 BHP with say a separate key to unlock the power and torque on tap. Ford did this with the Mustang Boss 302 in 2010. No DCCD six speed, really! Not true Recaro seats, why not the Recaro Sportster CS. No wing option really. And lastly a rear bumper cover refresh to get rid of that ….. bulbous monstrosity. This version of a TR WRX would have sold a lot. All you really get here is Brembo brakes and sticky tires whoopy plus a bigger car payment. Good review of the car and its ability and shortcomings.
To me the wrx is a compromise vehicle. Its for someone who wants something sporty with a manual but can only afford 1 vehicle. At the end of the day its a sub 300hp family sedan that gets horrendous fuel mileage and isnt even fast, like at all. But it looks cool"ish". Its cheap and has that magical awd that everyone thinks they need. The BRZ on the other hand although also cheap and low power is actually fantastic fun to drive. With a classic sports car design it is pure. Lightweight, rwd, manual trans.... Perfection. It can very well be an only vehicle, just not if you need regular use of back seats. The BRZ is a great extra car or "toy". Not super practical, but with the amount of fun it provides nobody cares.
Kind of nailed it. I think that is who the GT. The WRX is a modern day tuner. People are already getting over 400whp without even touching the turbo or internals. Base for people looking for a completely blank canvas, and TR for people that want a good starter kit from the factory. The twins are made to be perfect as is, and lightly modded. But the lack of turbo is also because Toyota doesn't want it to eat into Supra sales.
In reference to your " you can't meet suggested MPG and still have fun"... BS. I have a 23 GT, i run my country back roads between 55 and 70 depending on deer season, and I still hit the 26 MPG suggested by EPA. It's all based on how you drive it and jeep it in the proper power vand for what you are doing...
This is the first that I've heard that the Ts dampers are adaptive...are you sure that's not just Subaru being cheeky with their definition of the word "adaptive?" As in, "here's a bump in the road, our new dampers will move up and down over those bumps."
Hard to justify buying a 42k car withouts diffs when a GRC core with performance package cost 39k. Subaru could have atleast added those to compete somewhat with the GR
@@fortheloveofnoiseThe BRZ has one too. I think the thing is you really don't need it with the symmetrical awd. You already got traction for days even in the pouring rain or snow.
Thanks for the reply Ryan. I am a retiree but still want to enjoy driving and wonder if the WRX is inferior to the GR Corolla. From your answer it seems like it is NOT.@@drivingsports
Basically what I'm hearing is that the '23 is the last good year of the BRZ/GR86 because eyesight/lane departure/lane assist/other nannies that you have to turn off constantly ruin the experience. Next they'll try to implement an auto start/stop in the auto lmao. Subaru needs to stop. Can't wait to see what Toyota does with the 3rd gen GR86
it was so hard watching you downshift. please for the love of god rev match when you downshift. You could hear, see the car bog and your body move forward. I think its more about your technique than it it is needing the rear bias of the sti.
This current 2023 generation's Subaru WRX does not light my fire because it is so ugly. The BRZ and GR86 do catch my eye, but I refuse to buy a car with a self destroying engine. Thereore, both cars are off my christmas wishlist. maybe a base model Toyota GR Corolla
why is Subaru afraid of slapping a "STI" badge/label on the BRZ? A "BRZ STI" would mean the ultimate BRZ, unless they come out with an "S" car like the STI (e.g. S209). "Tuned by STi" just doesn't carry the same umph that a STI badge carries. Subaru also needs to ditch the ugly, black/gunmetal gray bird's nest wheels. Give me simple, straight, multi-spoke wheels in lighter colors (gold/silver/medium gray, etc.). Dark colored wheels have no personality.
@@drivingsportsI am an American, even a new $20k car is out of reach for me....I bought a $2500 used car, all I could afford...98 Nissan Sentra 5 Speed manual....I drive it hard and pretend I am in a sports car 😅
So, for the same price as a 2021 WRX STI Limited when it launched, you can get a WRX with less power, more brittle transmission, worse suspension, worse diffs, and worse brakes. Yay.
![2024 Subaru BRZ TS - [Track Review Mosport GP]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uDxXe_De5oU/mqdefault.jpg)
The BRZ looks great. 228 HP should be plenty of power for a sports car of that size and a capable 6 speed manual. Guess young people still enjoy the driving experience.
Me: I want more horsepower and STI gearbox with DCCD.
Subaru: Best I can do is EyeSight.
eh at least these engines are good at making power. unfortunately you have to lose your warranty benefits to actually enjoy the power this engine can offer
what about auto rev match? I don't care about purist-esqu arguments, I'd let the car do it for me (rev matching) while I row the gears as needed. Include a on/off button for the purists/Lewis and Marios out there.
@@thatblacksubbieare they good at making power??
@@BIGGIEBAG-XL yes - I currently only have an intake and a tune for both 93 and E30 (New engines fueling is E capable from factory). On 93 im at 338whp/364ftlbs and on E30 365whp/400tq. A full 100+ WHP/WTQ gain with simply an intake and a tune, definitely a beast.
The only reason they sell any of these at all is the value for money. The performance to price ratio of the BRZ is spot on. Once you start adding too many extra feature, the car quickly becomes way too expensive for the target buyer to afford and it won't sell. This tS has some nice upgrades that put it right at the tiptop price that most enthusiasts would be willing to pay. They know what they're doing.
42k for the WRX TR? Good lord why not just slap in the STI 6 speed, front and rear diffs, and call it an STI for that amount of money? LOL.
Agreed. Car manufacturers are really deaf to the market with these ridiculous offerings. I wouldn't pay a dollar over $35k for an absolutely maxed out WRX.
@@GOD999MODEFor real. Msrp on this car is definitely overpriced and the market is proof of that. In my area, premium trim with the sunroof, Harmon Kardon can be had for 32k pretty easily.
Honestly for today's prices, 42k isn't bad. You have Honda selling fwd cars for $45k-53k
@mistamaog I wish people would stop making excuses for car companies. If we don't call them out who will? 😂
@@FATmenDRIVEtrucks Well that's the thing, I felt like I was the only one complaining about the Type R being way too expensive. The S650 mustangs are way too expensive too, but it also has no competition now.
I'm more lenient towards the WRX because none of the other cars offered AWD, until you go to the GR Corolla and Golf R tiers.
I know this isn't the first BRZ video, but sometimes we forget that it has both; Port and Direct Fuel Injection. Yes, hence why it was co-developed with Toyota. Great video, Ryan.
Thats isnt really "why" it eas developed with Toyota. They bring a lot more to the table that just fuel injection. The ECU, transmission, differential, chassis, and most electronics are all Toyota.
@@boost331 No way. All technical development by Subaru. Some parts, suspension tuning - from Toyota for GR86. Subaru has built themselves both original and this models. Toyota only gave some money.
@@alextitov75 Im not sure how you can say "no way" when I literally listed a laundry list of parts that are supplied by Toyota. Far more of the car is Toyota parts than Subaru. It does get built in a Subaru plant with a boxer engine, but Toyota contributes way more parts. I own a well modded 2022 BRZ and can tell you for fact tons of parts have Toyota stamped on them.
@@boost331 "far more of the car is toyota parts than subaru" is just wrong. I am a new gen brz owner too and the toyota parts are the infotainment, some interior switches (like the indicator stalk assembly), the gearbox, diff, epas system and many of the ecu components. All the parts we just listed on the floor wouldn't even begin to resemble a car. Yes, toyota had a huge influence designing and engineering the car, but being built in the Gunma plant inherently means there will be more subaru PARTS. The toyota badges have subaru stamped in the back of them lmao.
@@jay18394 Ok. All the important parts. Dont forget the chassis itself too is a toyota platform. If you are judging how much is made by who based on the size of parts thats a pretty dumb way to tally it up. The engine, brakes, and a few tidbits here and there are subaru parts. The rest is toyota. Its built in a subaru plant, sure but with the exception of the engine every important part that makes the pile of parts into a functioning car is made by toyota.
You went all the way to Sicily! You never cease to amaze us. Bravissimo, continua così.
he flew there too, so his arms must have been especially tired after the journey....
This is one of your best produced and Presented videos ever! Thanks for the content.
Great video, I own a 2023 BRZ and agree with all your talking points on the tS. It’s a phenomenal driver’s car and I will be keeping mine for a long time to come.
I've got to admit, of the half dozen car channels I'm subscribed to, I didn't expect you to be the first to show me the BRZ tS that I've been so looking forward to, and I'm so happy that you did. 😎😎
Have a 2023 GR86. Brilliant.
You just sold me a BRZ. I hope Subaru pays you a comission. It felt great watching that dashcam on the windy Italian roads. Thanks!
so awesome to get a back to back comparison on these two vehicles. great review as always!
OMG I've been waiting for the BRZ TS media review for so long after I got my 2023 BRZ!
EXCELLENT review and video; enjoyed it immensely. Thank you.
I definitely understand your mpg point, I didn't care about my mpg in the past. However, I did get 25mpg in my 2013 brz after a decade of fun and driving hard, even during my commutes. Whether or not that is good or bad is subjective. I wouldn't be able to swallow 15mpg, but hey, some people can.
I had a car once that got half that
You've got to be kidding me!?!?! We're from Palermo, Sicily. This i going to be good!!!
I just bought a 23 WRX base 6 sp. GREAT car! GREAT value too! I want a BRZ too. It’s so beautiful and sexy 😍
I would've preferred if they sold that trim with all it currently includes (brembos included) and the STI add-ons like the aero, exhaust, short shifter, etc, for that price. Then rename it to WRX TD for tuner done. I get that the STI is being held back so they can make a significant comeback in a few years, but come on!
I have a 2011 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 2.5l (naturally aspirated) 5-speed manual with 211 hp (with some work). It's a 5-door hatchback, blue on top and gray down low. I love it! The estimated gas mileage is hooligan 15 to 22 mpg, and for everyday driving, 22 to 33 mpg. I'll never be able to replace it, lol. I'm very interested in the new Subaru Brat. I'd like an SUV in my 2-car garage. Maintenance is vital with Subaru, but if you can commit to that, they're fantastic. My Subaru takes me everywhere, down wooden paths to the beaches, camping, fish, sports, and hiking site(s). Road trips throughout New England are chased all year long, no matter what the weather likes. But more importantly, it always brings me back home safe and sound. I'm stoked to see the availability of manuals in Subaru. It will keep me shopping solely with Subaru. If you are looking for a nice ride, even if you are in the used car marketing, check Subaru out and get your money's worth out of your next car. Just sayin'
Italy is near to my Country. Great episode and special place. Merry Christmas. Greetings
Interesting to see the Illinois manufacturer plates on cars in Europe, I’d’ve expected them to be on plates from wherever Subaru of Europe is based
unfortunately no, because we don't get either the WRC or the BRZ ts; we briefly got the BRZ for the last couple of months of 2023 and now it is all gone.
Legislation in Europe is written in such a way that you have extremely low CO2 average on your fleets(the whole numbers and models) and, unfortunately, Subaru in Europe doesn't have to much of an electrified offering and so, the BRZ with the high-ish CO2 numbers would mean big fees for Subaru to pay..it would simply mean they couldn't afford to do business here in Europe; note one thing, if it weren't for the gazillion of Taycans, Porsche would also have to pay fees for exceeding fleet average CO2 limits; basically, Taycans are the reason Porsche can sell unbothered the rest of their lineup. Toyota managed to introduce the GR86 but only 4000 pcs for two years of selling on all EU market, limiting the number of sold units in order to not exceed the average fleet CO2 limit.
If I wouldn't know any better, and I don't, I'd say that the current EU laws on emissions are tailored made for french manufacturers(who dropped all of their fast/performance vehicles) and start focusing 100% on EVs, as well as for Tesla, with their big factory in Germany.
Great pricing on that TR! Just wish Subaru would have freaking released it at launch and I’d be in one of those instead of my limited wishing I had brembos and some handling tweaks
Great video and epic filming location!!!
I'd have really enjoyed having the STI transmission and those brakes on the 2023 Solar Orange model I have. Otherwise, it's a really good car, and I enjoy driving it in an all season environment. Oh, and port injection for a dual setup and about 300 horsepower with less torque limiting in the first two gears would have been nice too.
42K for a WRX without TY85 STI transmission? Even if you give the engine a pass due to tuning potential, that is too expensive.
The BRZ looks so awesome, I wish it had a turbo
2025, rumor has it...
Great video, but I think both cars are a bit pricey, especially considering how good of a value proposition Subarus have typically been. I realize inflation is a thing, but several thousand dollars on a car is very different from $20 or $30 dollars more on your grocery bill. I think for what your getting the BRZ tS should be closer to $33,000, and a WRX at $42k seems insane to me if it doesn't have an STI badge on it. The WRX TR should really be closer to $37k or $38k, while the base WRX base trim should start under $30k. Maybe that's just my brain not keeping up with inflation, but I don't think most people's pay checks are either and I don't think they're going to sell as many of these at those prices. You can't put off buying groceries, but most people can put off buying a new car.
Also, since wanting to have EyeSight in every model was Subaru's stated reason for dropping the manual transmission from the Crosstrek, did you ask them if they were going to bring the manual back as an option now that they can have EyeSight with a manual transmission? While I would love a turbocharged Crosstrek to replace the old WRX wagon/hatchback, realistically the FB25 is pretty much all the power you need in a Crosstrek daily driver. Literally the only thing keeping me from going down to my Subaru dealer and ordering a new Crosstrek Wilderness is the lack of a manual transmission. While I would love a BRZ and have strongly considered buying one, where I live in northern Michigan would relegate it to a summer only car, so until they bring the manual transmission back to the Crosstrek or Forester, Subaru doesn't have a new car in their lineup that I would be willing to buy. Unfortunately, I think that might put me in the minority, but a manual transmission is such a better driving experience than an automatic, including their CVT (which I have driven in 2 different Crosstreks and an Outback that are owned by family members). Please Santa (and Subaru), all I want for Christmas is a Crosstrek Wilderness with a manual transmission.😢
I'm with you. I'd have a new 2.5RS in a heartbeat if it could be had with a manual transmission. I'm not sure what I'm going to replace my 2017 Impreza Sport 5-speed daily driver with, but it won't likely be a Subaru. I've done the WRX thing three times and loved the performance, but grew tired of the relatively poor gas mileage PLUS the price-gouging at the pump on premium fuel, never mind the insurance premiums.
@@garypatrick3001 Yeah, my 2006 Subaru Outback Sport started falling apart 2 years ago and I ended up buying a used 2017 Forester Premium to replace it. I wanted a new Crosstrek because I liked the size and handling, but if you wanted a manual transmission you had to give up basically every other option, and since most dealers near me didn't get manuals as regular stock I would've had to order one. That meant waiting 6 to 8 months to get the car and I didn't have that kind of time with my old car falling apart. Unless something changes at Subaru, my first new car is likely to be a Honda or Toyota.
2000 corners? Sounds like heaven.
28:23 caught me off guard, LOL
Caught me off guard too! 😂
Ryan, that was a great video. Has Subaru addressed the oil starvation issue that's been affecting the BRZs? Is there any fix on the horizon?
Ryan os clearly an expert dedicated to this issue and will answer you soon.
@@seanmackay6739 I sense some irony there. I understand Ryan isn't an expert on this topic (I don't assume he is). However, I was curious if the press had the chance to discuss and hear from Subaru on the matter. That's why I asked.
@@nelsonricciardi7087It hasn't been amd wont be, you have to do it aftermarket
Thanks for the review as we are in the.market for a new car and Subaru is on he cards.
Also thanks for highlighting the bad roads in Sicily to avoid.
You'd think they'd have such an iconic road in perfect condition.
Thanks for sharing
probably they want to keep lunatics(read enthusiasts) with more or less money and fast cars, go there and throw themselves on the side of the mountains.
One of the best car review ive’d watch.. not only the cars but the history of the place while driving 🫡🫡🫡
I love the WRX
Not sure if it’s the same for the brz but for my STI i can hold the trac mode button down for 5 seconds and it’ll take traction control all the way off and you can have some real fun
What an epic route! You should team up with Everyday Driver for a project. They have a similar large format style and I’d love to see your discussions!
Lots of folks are complaining about the price of these cars. However, the AVERAGE transaction for a new car currently is north of the mid 40’s. So for a top end sports car trim (BRZts) and a one step down from top trim(WRXtr) for roughly 37 and 43k is pretty good IMO. I’m not excusing the high prices of current vehicles, but A, try to find another top spec sports car for under 45k. And B) get used to the prices, they ain’t gonna come down. Our parents/grandparents are probably straight passing out at current car prices considering a brand new car could be easily had for 3 grand back when. It’s just the march of progress and time. So complain all you want, but comparatively these are good values as Subaru has historically been.
BRZ all day. RWD > AWD & FWD
Thanks!
Ryan, I have never been to Sicily or any other part of Italy, do all the cars over there have Illinois license plates? 🤔😉🤣
The impreza wrx is not sold in europe
Perfect two-car solution 👌🏽
Reverse off of first on a 6 speed is SOOOOOO welcomed! This way, you wont accidentally shift into reverse at high speed...you may shift into reverse instead of first though.
The 2000 WRX didnt have the 11 inch info screen and I liked it.
That whole section with the wrx makes me want an Elantra n. I know it's front wheel drive but I'm not going to track it. I'm going to daily drive it.
Nice, but the WRX will not be sold in Europe. Who organized this Event?
I've been saving up years to get a Miata Club, but for a similar price the BRZ tS is a compelling alternative. The additional practicality and interior space compared to Miata is welcome, especially as a daily driver, but of course you're giving up the convertible which is a huge compromise. That's why this is such a tough decision. Both amazing cars that won't be around much longer.
Love the change of scenery!
Ah yes, MF Ghost World Tour arc
When the rear kicked out, you did some nice opposite lock. Have you ever raced or did track days?
Lots of HPDE and track days. Also did a couple time attack events yeaarrrrrs ago.
Well done! I is so good to see someone who understands what driving is all about out. I sold my 1969 Camero SS for a 1970 Fiat 124 Spyder. You know what? That little Fiat was way more fun! As I recall it, had a 1.4L engine with around 95 hp. Torque was non-existent. Would not go over 100 with the top down. Too much drag. I could get 104 with the top up. The thing was, you had to really DRIVE that little car to get anything out of it. Faster than my Camero? Of course not. But carving down a mountain road with the top down, redlining every shift - apexing on every 25, 30, 35, and 45 mph curve, catching the upshift coming out of the corners. Nothing like it. You, my man, get it… Thanks.
WRX AWD is amazing. BRZ is just so sexy 😍
want WRX TR in Japan
Japan has CVT version only😢
Poor fuel efficiency regulations😠
Can this new Brembo package be swapped into a 2022?
Goodess that WRX is an eyesore. That BRZ looks so fun!
Must be hard not getting involved in all those incredible views, especially while racing. Are Peugeots still around? Loved the 80’s style.
Amazing video, thanks for the quality! But you didn't address the EyeSight with the manual transmission. It would have been good for at least a few minutes to hear your opinion.
We couldn’t really get into it because the cars were not configured for Italian road markings. Will have to do a more thorough test back in the states.
@@drivingsports wow, I wouldn't have expected to get it calibrated for Italian roads. Looking forward to seeing your Eyesight test in the future
I have the 2020 WRX. It has lane keep assist. The new one has lane centering?
Yes!
nice save on your BRZ drive - does the "eyesight" system intrude on you vision as badly as it does on the imprezza/crosstrek ??? (What were they thinking - it blocks half my view ! )
I'm interested. How did you get those cars to Europe? They're not on sale in Europe definitely not in the UK.Subaru didn't import The current WRX or BRZ. Having owned a Gt86, last gen BRZ and now GR86. The GR86 is now banned in all of EUROPE.
Cars don't need to drive aggressive to have fun. When you get aggressive, you end up in jail.
With little throttle and almost no braking, It's enough to stay over illegal speed in mountain roads.
So gas mileage means a lot to me. Normally I get 20% better efficiency than factory stated mpg.
Subaru pissing off europeans by showing the new WRX in Sicily and not selling it in Europe.
Thanks eyesightbaru, keep your CVT Crosstreks, I'll keeep my old WRX running while I still can.
Driving tests that we deserved. A subaru wrx on a regular road sticking to the speed limits. Awesome. But I’d say camry or any cheap hatchback with a cvt will be more impressive.
Wait, let me get this right: so they've brought these cars for filming to Europe, but they won't offer them here? What a shame...
Great review. Re BRZ's transition - it's actually TOYOTA's - that's why reverse is "on the left"
can't wait for these to sit on the lot and snag them for $5,000 below MSRP...
BRZs don't last more than a week on the lots around here in SoCal.
@@jaron95 ... that's SoCal, not Ohio, where I'm at or other place that gets real weather and 4 seasons....
@@K03sport F in chat
@@K03sportThey don't sit in Alabama or especially Georgia either....but we only get Super Summer, Summer, Diet Summer, and Diet Winter.
@@fortheloveofnoiseWe do get a lot of rain tho.
But you're right. I live right up by TN, and driven all year around on the Michelin Pilot Sport 4s that came on my 22 BRZ.
The only thing we can hardly add to a WRX is the STI transmission.. SUBARU could have skipped everything else and just included the STI transmission and the car would have driven itself out of the dealers' lots..
“Not very expensive car” *$42k*
A GR Corolla MSRP is $36k, with the required dealer packages it’s $40-42K without markups. I’d rather hold out for that.
No excuse for the TR to not have 300hp from the factory.
Swing and a ……. single here for Subaru not a home run which the Subaru enthusiast community deserved after being shafted with the elimination of the STI. No power bump to say 300 BHP with say a separate key to unlock the power and torque on tap. Ford did this with the Mustang Boss 302 in 2010.
No DCCD six speed, really! Not true Recaro seats, why not the Recaro Sportster CS. No wing option really. And lastly a rear bumper cover refresh to get rid of that ….. bulbous monstrosity.
This version of a TR WRX would have sold a lot.
All you really get here is Brembo brakes and sticky tires whoopy plus a bigger car payment.
Good review of the car and its ability and shortcomings.
Subie called it “Track ready.” How can u have AWD without a diff in the rear? Really.
Was it a cop at 10:24 !?
Nope, that's Nick, our camera op.
19:30 BRZ TS $36.5k
21:01 Lower CoG than C8 ‘vette
23:00 Baby Porsche
24:25 Shifting feel
25:30 MPG
26:40 ~2800 lbs, 228 HP; no need for turbo
29:10 Adaptive suspension
32:00 BRZ > WRX
Wonder how the locals have reacted since they don’t have Subaru over there
Lots of lookers. And we did see one local Subaru. It was a silver second generation legacy wagon.
How did the Recaros treat you? I really hated them, they were made for someone with a size 24 waste. Beautiful scenery!!
I thought they fit great. And I’m not small. 😂
28:26 oh... I was scared
You live in a delusional world to think that $42k is not an expensive car or a great value.
Brz ts price?
To me the wrx is a compromise vehicle. Its for someone who wants something sporty with a manual but can only afford 1 vehicle. At the end of the day its a sub 300hp family sedan that gets horrendous fuel mileage and isnt even fast, like at all. But it looks cool"ish". Its cheap and has that magical awd that everyone thinks they need. The BRZ on the other hand although also cheap and low power is actually fantastic fun to drive. With a classic sports car design it is pure. Lightweight, rwd, manual trans.... Perfection. It can very well be an only vehicle, just not if you need regular use of back seats. The BRZ is a great extra car or "toy". Not super practical, but with the amount of fun it provides nobody cares.
the WRX can fit a Great Dane. I get 28-29mpg consistently in my '19 WRX (more hwy than city driving)
Kind of nailed it. I think that is who the GT.
The WRX is a modern day tuner. People are already getting over 400whp without even touching the turbo or internals.
Base for people looking for a completely blank canvas, and TR for people that want a good starter kit from the factory.
The twins are made to be perfect as is, and lightly modded.
But the lack of turbo is also because Toyota doesn't want it to eat into Supra sales.
Maybe I missed it...did the manual BRZ have eyesight as well?
Yes, I mentioned near the end of the video.
In reference to your " you can't meet suggested MPG and still have fun"...
BS. I have a 23 GT, i run my country back roads between 55 and 70 depending on deer season, and I still hit the 26 MPG suggested by EPA. It's all based on how you drive it and jeep it in the proper power vand for what you are doing...
This is the first that I've heard that the Ts dampers are adaptive...are you sure that's not just Subaru being cheeky with their definition of the word "adaptive?" As in, "here's a bump in the road, our new dampers will move up and down over those bumps."
There's a Motortrend article that mentions them adapteding with a second valve that stiffens for harder bumps.
@@TheFunGun5 Thanks I'll check out that article!
Hard to justify buying a 42k car withouts diffs when a GRC core with performance package cost 39k. Subaru could have atleast added those to compete somewhat with the GR
Even the Miata is geting an LSD starting for the 2024 model year
@@fortheloveofnoiseThe BRZ has one too.
I think the thing is you really don't need it with the symmetrical awd. You already got traction for days even in the pouring rain or snow.
Not taking price into account, is the WRX better for day to day than the Corolla GR?
I prefer it. But I know that’s not everyone.
Thanks for the reply Ryan. I am a retiree but still want to enjoy driving and wonder if the WRX is inferior to the GR Corolla. From your answer it seems like it is NOT.@@drivingsports
if you are going for AWD daily monster, the Golf-R.: is the better place to be.
This car is one transmission swap away from being perfect.
Tuner Ready? More like Too Rich! I don’t see this selling. How about brining the WRX wagon over!
Basically what I'm hearing is that the '23 is the last good year of the BRZ/GR86 because eyesight/lane departure/lane assist/other nannies that you have to turn off constantly ruin the experience. Next they'll try to implement an auto start/stop in the auto lmao. Subaru needs to stop. Can't wait to see what Toyota does with the 3rd gen GR86
I don’t think this was Subaru’s choice but regulations
@@seanmackay6739 you're likely correct. Just happy to see it didn't happen sooner
@@plurby1703sadly the upgraded Miata is getting the nannies for 2024
it was so hard watching you downshift. please for the love of god rev match when you downshift. You could hear, see the car bog and your body move forward. I think its more about your technique than it it is needing the rear bias of the sti.
Didn’t fix the bumper smh 🤦🏾♂️
Not hatchback WRX 😔
Omg subaru wrx tr manual brasil
Yeah, find tuners and void your warranty.
fog road looks dangerous
This current 2023 generation's Subaru WRX does not light my fire because it is so ugly. The BRZ and GR86 do catch my eye, but I refuse to buy a car with a self destroying engine. Thereore, both cars are off my christmas wishlist. maybe a base model Toyota GR Corolla
Get a Miata
Life is no fun unless you challenge your own mortality.
why is Subaru afraid of slapping a "STI" badge/label on the BRZ? A "BRZ STI" would mean the ultimate BRZ, unless they come out with an "S" car like the STI (e.g. S209). "Tuned by STi" just doesn't carry the same umph that a STI badge carries. Subaru also needs to ditch the ugly, black/gunmetal gray bird's nest wheels. Give me simple, straight, multi-spoke wheels in lighter colors (gold/silver/medium gray, etc.). Dark colored wheels have no personality.
Understeer vs oversteer.. your choices.
"Not very expensive car" .... $42k??? wow
Median car price in the USA is $48k.
@@drivingsportsI am an American, even a new $20k car is out of reach for me....I bought a $2500 used car, all I could afford...98 Nissan Sentra 5 Speed manual....I drive it hard and pretend I am in a sports car 😅
I think a Kona N would be more fun than both of these...
TR means too rich
... did you took time to learn how good a coffee for a small amount of € could be? ☕
I drank all the coffee.
Over $40k for a WRX???
You know your Subeys
So, for the same price as a 2021 WRX STI Limited when it launched, you can get a WRX with less power, more brittle transmission, worse suspension, worse diffs, and worse brakes. Yay.