The 1959 "In Cold Blood" Clutter Murders w/ Gary McAvoy - A True Crime History Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2020
- Most of us probably know at least the basics of the 1959 Kansas Clutter family murders case, in large part because the story was dramatically detailed by Truman Capote in his best-selling 1966 non-fiction novel entitled "In Cold Blood".
But was Capote's book as factual as he claimed it was? The Kansas Bureau of Investigation says so, but my guest, Gary McAvoy does not. Gary, along with Ronald R. Nye, collaborated to write the book "And Every Word Is True", based on the personal notes and files of Ronald's father Harold Nye, lead investigator of the case. Gary joins me to share some tantalizing theories from their book, based on forgotten facts, clues and witness statements from the original investigation over sixty years ago.
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Oh, my what a tantalizing episode! In Cold Blood was the first "True Crime" novel I ever read back when I was a teen. I was too young to know the difference between that genre and true crime accounts of the actual incident so accepted much of it as 'fact'. Several decades on now, I look forward to reading Mr. McAvoy's book!
This is one of my favorite podcasts. Being that I’m high strung, your voice has a calming affect.
I’ve listened to every one of them. I think the one about the Osage Indians was my first. Keep them coming please
I first visited the Kansas Historical Society agency located in Topeka, Kansas in late November, 2012. At that time, the Kansas State Penitentiary files of inmates Richard Eugene Hickock and Perry Edward Smith could only be reviewed in the archive department of that library, and under the supervision of that library's staff. Both files would later be made available online on the Kansas Memory site for anyone to review for themselves. I brought to that agency that day the original December, 1961 copy of MALE magazine containing my father's published article titled "A Condemned Killer Tells How He Committed America's Worst Crime In 20 Years"..................As told to Mack Nations by Richard Eugene Hickock, the original 1961 typed written page from "High Road To Hell" by Mack Nations, and four original hand-written 1961 letters from Death Row inmate Richard Eugene Hickock to Mack Nations. These original documents had never been viewed before by any of the Kansas Historical Society agency staff before, and copies were made that day and donated to that agency by myself in order for their historical value to be protected and preserved. Shortly after I returned home from Kansas I received a written request from the Kansas Historical Society to provide them with a short historical biography of my father Starling Mack Nations. This I did in December, 2012, and sent it along with a copy of a family owned black and white photograph of my father in order for them to be used by said agency on their own Kansas Historical Society Memory website. All of these original artifacts belonging solely to myself I find used in Gary Mc Avoy's book, as though he himself discovered them. A copy of my own original written manuscript titled "Inside My Father's Shoes" completed in September, 2013, and copyrighted on February 14, 2014 containing all of the above was donated by myself at the Kansas Historical Society agency on January 2, 2014, and remains on display there today. Gary Mc Avoy's book was not published until years later, but yet contains much of my own original story within its pages. Don't believe me, read my own account, and compare the two for yourself. My father's original story NEVER intimated anything about Smith and Hickock meeting someone in Cimarron, Kansas restaurant immediately after they had killed the Clutter family members. Smith's clothing, face and hair had blood all over them when the pair of cowards raced out of the farm house that night. What a preposterous scenario to even suggest. Can you imagine any truck driver, patron or waitress in an all-night restaurant seeing these two idiots strolling in at 3 AM that morning? Please, just stop! No Gary Mc Avoy, nor any other supposed "authority" on Mack Nations never knew my father, never read HIGH ROAD TO HELL and went through that 1961-1962 period of time except my own family. PERIOD! If curiosity seekers really want something worth thinking about, here it is. Why is there nothing found inside Richard Eugene Hickock's Kansas State Penitentiary file concerning any personal visits made to and authorized by top prison officials, including the Director of Penal Institutions Guy C. Rexroad, by Mack Nations in 1961 to visit in person with killer Richard Eugene Hickock? There are, however, countless pages that have been removed from Hickock's K.S.P. prison file. Why? Why were the prison files, both Kansas State Penitentiary and Kansas Industrial Reformatory, on squealer inmate William Floyd Wells Jr. destroyed by the Kansas Department of Corrections, and not placed on display at the Kansas Historical Society for public display next to Smith and Hickock's? And lastly, Assistant Kansas Attorney General Robert Hoffman contacted my father Mack Nations at his job at the Wichita Eagle and Beacon newspaper in the early winter of 1962, just days after Truman Capote's first approved interview with inmates Hickock and Smith, January 29, 1962, to request that my father send him many of the personal handwritten letters written to him by Hickock from Death Row for that office's review. Oh yes, the Hickock/Smith appeal before the Kansas Supreme Court was at hand, and the Kansas Attorney General's Office wanted everything that Hickock had admitted to my father in the writing of Hickock's life story, High Road To Hell, to use against the convicted killer if it became necessary for them to do so. Think about this. The same assholes that wanted to discredit my father, and his original story of the most famous murder case in Kansas at the time, now wanted Mack Nations help. And all of them were in on making sure Truman Capote's book became a best seller, and secured their own legacies and concealed their own nefarious behaviors and actions along the way. You want to know what happened? Now you know.
Thank You for this information.
I keep listening to the part about Hickocks father asking Dick if he was paid because not 1..not 2but THREE separate policemen just asked him (Dicks father) if they were paid to commit these killings. That part seems odd to me, really 3 people in the same tiny jailhouse asked the same question..? Hard to believe.
I do believe something was afoot however and it was in Dick letters and manuscripts that are now missing as you have confirmed from the archives in Topeka.
I too will be going to Topeka to view the archives and dig into the Floyd Wells story.
Wells is indeed the lynchpin in the entire storyline yet he is a complete ENIGMA.
Mr. Nations that should tell you something….
Much respect sir! Your father’s lifework and efforts at the Wichita Eagle to help straighten out these lies has not gone unnoticed.
Thank you!
@@JS-ti8ny Thank you for your comments. Best wishes on your own visit to Topeka, and your research. There is much to consider, isn't there?
Regards,
Michael Nations
Ironic that one of of the two killers from the “In Cold Blood “ film was played by Robert Blake who of course had his own major legal issues in his later life.
Every time I thought this was getting interesting the author just told us it was too complicated to talk about here but buy my book and you'll find out.
Just heard this on podcast app today. Thank you for the interview!
You're right about one thing, the Toby Jones portrayal of Capote was much, much better than the Hoffman version. "Infamous " is definitely in my top 10 favorite movies.
I haven't seen it - now it's on my list, as well!
Interesting conversation but hard to believe that Hickock was anything but a dupe to a fellow jail mate Floyd Wells, who would prime and pump his gullible cell mate with tall stories of maps, money and payday that would be a " cinch". As for the idea that there was a hit on Clutter ( links to Government ) and that he was somehow not the prim Methodist he appeared but a "man who could have had what he wanted" strike me as far fetched. He was almost certainly the modest family man who was a successful farmer in his quiet corner of Kansas Capote painted. Done.
We have been to the Clutter driveway with the Chinese elms. But not the house... spooky after dark with the howling winds!!!
this is so rad…..great episode! i can’t wait to check out more of your content!
This was great to listen to. As soon as I was done, I put Mr. McAvoy’s book (audio version) on my wish list.
GREAT STUFF PAL! GOD BLESS
Bravo!!!!!
Who is here after watching In Cold Blood on tv
Thanks!
Thank you Boris!
Awesomeness
These are great! TY for these interesting stories. I am a nonfiction junkie!😎
Glad you enjoy them. Cheers!
Conspiracy theory innuendo with no basis in any facts.
As for a "hit" on the Clutters, how in God's name does the "client" find these two yokels to hire them to carry out these murders?
Who actually got the $10k payoff to allow Capote full access for his prison interviews?
The governor?
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Matt Getz, called a hearing, questioned teenaged girls, pulled his pants down, and felt himself. Would anyone be surprised? He sat there and rubbed himself while asking probing questions! Believe it.. or stuff it. That is our representation.
And every word is true.
Grossly inappropriate to insinuate Herb was having an affair with such flimsy evidence. His life was stolen away and now you're attempting to steal his reputation. Speaks very badly of you both. A step down for this channel. Very disappointing.
Allow me to disagree with your statement, here. This episode is something of a teaser. The author wants you to come read his book. He states categorically that he would not publish lies or hearsay, ergo, simply because he didn't share all of his evidence on this podcast does not mean he is not in possession of said evidence or that it isn't published in the book, which is the entire reason for the podcast, after all.
Why don't you write a book.
I think if it was a murder for hire the suspects would have made a deal after all they went to their executions without implicating anyone else that tells me that it's not for hire people don't just go to the chamber without trying to get out of it somehow
Yes agree with you. That's down right evil..
100% agree.
If the Clutter husband was having an affair, no wonder the wife was depressed.
wells sounds like he started y
Pitiful!!
How boring. Just staring at the same picture. Podcasts aren’t a good thing to put on YT
Well almost 15,000 subscribers say differently 🤷♂