Even If you makes Videos longer than 5-6 hours i will watch them without eating . You such a great man brother please dont stop this . If you can please do a video of FWD Aerodynamics such as rear wings etc stuffs. And tyre sizes aswel . Thank you so much brother this is priceless
Thank you for the great feedback, it is much appreciated. I have a few more FWD videos planned but will definitely include your recommendations 💪🏻 Appreciate the feedback champ
Basically a shopping list of the things I'd do/buy if I could afford it. For now eibach sway bars, and semislicks and brembos is my limit. You'd be surprised how much better a 15yo Mini gets with just those.
Good list, I would prioritize the tires and sway bars for handling. The stock brakes should be enough for stopping power, upgraded brakes are only necessary if you are driving hard for very long periods of time and experience brake fade when doing so. Otherwise, they're pointless.
Great information. We have a front wheel drive rally car. Slightly different than a circuit racing car, but test test test, (and still get it wrong lol), get the best feel and run with it.
A question for you. Front wheel drive track car with non independent rear suspension. Which option would you say is better. Option A. Stiffen (box weld etc)your rear axel and don't use an anti roll bar. Option B. Don't stiffen your axel, but use a big anti roll bar. Very interested to hear your point of view on this one.
This is a very good question, thanks for asking. Option A Boxing & stiffening the axle is a cost effective option provided you are going to do the work yourself. Disadvantage is that you will not know how much or how stiff it is until you get it on track. The risk is that you make it too stiff & the car becomes too loose on the rear. But the biggest problem with boxing the axle is material fatigue. The metal you weld in to stiffen is often mild steel which does not cope well with consistent bending. So it gets to a point & then just breaks which makes the rear unpredictable. The best way to do this is to get one of those long "pry bar" straight levers (+- 1.5m long) made out of spring steel. Cut the ends to suit your axle width & stich weld it to the axle over its width(this can be inside, on top, bottom etc.). The stitch welds will allow for the flex & the spring steel will add rigidity to the axle while being able to cope with the twisting. This is an example of that bar we have locally, not sure wher you are based. www.builders.co.za/Tools-%26-Protective-Wear/Hand-tools/Chisels-%26-Wreck/Cold-Chisels-%26-Wreck/Lasher-Crow-Bar-25-x-1500mm/p/000000000000294489?gclid=Cj0KCQjwiIOmBhDjARIsAP6YhSU1vLEaR7Sq-NTEKBWkln1Vcm3mtxRh2wgXLBr5N8IQlHD19OZBN7caAnEOEALw_wcB Sometimes, like on the Clio, the rear axle is stiffened or reenforced for strength purposes. This ads rigidity and you might not need an anti roll bar. Option B An anti roll bar is IMHO the better route because it is designed for that exact purpose and made out of spring steel. If you get the adjustable version, or modify one to be adjustable, then you would be able to dial in the correct amount. (Also remember that the track is a living thing, so grip level changes depending on time of year/rain/amount of vehicles on the track/your tyre wear etc.) So you would ultimately want adjustability in a race environment.
My ignorance bought APR coilovers to find out there is no camber adjustments. I now need to find coilovers with adjustable camber plates. Last track I ran Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s but the rough track and no negative camber corded my tire. June I'm going to another track but not with expensive Michelin tires. I found a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE050A RFT tires tread wear 140 that was cheaper than 2 Cup 2s. My size 245/35r18 is limited in tires I can find. My car is 3,162 pounds without me in it and almost full fuel tank. With me in car the weight distribution is front 63.63% rear 36.37%. I'm ignorant on picking out correct coilovers so I appreciate the information. I want to get better in the corners for sure. Your channel will grow I am sure. I drive a VW also, 2019 VW GTI.
Appreciate your videos! I would suggest that maybe you can give us a base setup for a dual duty car (daily car with some weekend trackdays) I'm sure many of the viewers have a dual duty car. Not everyone can afford a track car.. I guess something like, front camber -1.5 degree 1mm toe out, and rear camber -1 degree 1,25 toe in?
You mentioned you would run less camber on a double wishbone front suspension than a macpherson strut. How would that compare to your baseline setup at the end of the video? I have a 94 Honda Civic track car with independent front and rear suspension. Thank you.
Hi, thanks for watching. It all depends on the car & how much caster the setup has. I would just start with 3.5deg both sides on the front & see how the car reacts. 0mm toe out. Does the tyre want more etc. Stick with 1.5deg on the rear. 0mm toe out. You can always adjust from there. Good luck & thank you for your support..
When coming up with a baseline for negative camber, my car is about 1600 kg. Would my baseline negative camber be a higher negative number (ex: -4.5 to -5.5) or a lower negative number (ex: -2.5 to -3.5)? Fantastic video as always, thank so much for taking the time to record and post.
Thanks for watching champ. I would always start with a slightly lower number. So start with 2.5 for track. But realistically, you will be closer to 3.5. A good indicator would be to check the outer edge of the tyre for excessive wear. If the outside is wearing a lot on the drive wheels, then you don't have enough camber or, the car has a fundamental handling issue.
Nice explaining, I do suffer problem with the light rear feel very unstable on heavy brake soon after a fast full throttle corner even with dead straight steering wheel.
ITS Racer this is a common problem with a FWD but luckily there are a few ways to fix it. What’s happening is the there is a lot of weight transfer to the front which makes the rear very light. So in the race cars we install a brake bias controller which allows me to adjust the front/rear brake distribution. I set it up to about 80%front/20% rear. That stop the rear locking up easily. You can also lower the rear of the car to make it more stable but you can’t go too low or it will start to understeer. You can also increase the rear rebound on the shock in combination with lowering the rear. It also depends on how stiff your front suspension setup is aswell. Good luck 👍🏻
@@ssbb_builds2090 I been using weaker brake pad in the rear plus the rear rebound is set to max while front is half, F8kg R10kg spring rate. Ride height was close to stock with corner balance. Front 3.8 camber rear 1.8, 0 toe all around. It used to be just little scary but no correction needed but in the last track day kept having to counter steer as I brake to steady the car, how should I use tyre pressure to correct it on the day ?? I have recorded my driving input in GoPro too
ITS Racer sounds good 👍🏻 Unless the tyre pressure is really hard on the rear I.e. 3.0 bar, it shouldn’t make too much difference. You could go a bit softer but that shouldn’t really make a difference. I would say it’s more the brake bias in combination with corner balancing. But really try & get a bias adjuster for in the car to dial it in 👍🏻
A strut brace does work if it is also mounted to the fire wall. A normal strut to strut brace does add but its not worth the effort because in high load applications, the one side will just end up pushing the other side. Thanks for watching!
Thank you sir, much appreciated! Start with 0mm on the rear for the track. This will loosen the car up a bit but reduce the scrub. Based on what the car is doing, Can can then reduce our add.
I am not familiar with oval track racing but I would think that the outer wheels get camber & inner gets 0. Start toe off at 0mm then add depending on what the car is doing.
Hi, first of all really great insight, enjoyed all 49mins! Actually helped me create some good set ups on Forza aha. I have a renaultsport Twingo 133 and I've downsized from 195/40r17 to 195/50r15 and I'm getting quite a lot o wear on the outer edges and from watching your video it's seems it's going into more positive camber because the side wall isn't as stiff. So I was thinking if that is the case I could try increasing the camber to counter this ( have had a stock alignment done). Maybe 2 degrees. It is a road car driven spiritedly and might do 2 or 3 track days a year. Thank you if you read this.
Thanks for your input. It’s always a difficult one trying to get a balance between a street setup and a track setup. It might be worth getting some strings & doing your setup yourself for the track days then change it back for the street. It’s a lot of work but the car will be much quicker. Alternatively, go harder on the pressures. You should have good initial grip but the tyre will go off quicker. Harder pressure should help with the sidewall but not a lot. It’s always a compromise 🤷🏻♂️ Thanks for watching
Hello, I know it’s probably in the video somewhere but just wondering if you have any advice for setting up coil overs on a front heavy Fwd car? Should I make back stiffer than the front? and raise the back slightly more than the front
Hi, thanks for watching. To answer your question, it depends on the use of the car. If the car is a pure track car, then you would need to use quite stiff springs on the front. You just need to make sure that the coil over can cope with the stiff spring rate. Running the back higher than the front will help with initial turn in but will make the car unstable at high speeds. So if you do lift the back up, then start with 5mm. You generally do run a stiffer spring on the back for a track car but there is a balance, you need to be careful how much stiffer. Start with something 5% harder than the front.
@@ssbb_builds2090 well I’d be using it for fast road use. Say I’m using BC coil overs and they have 30 setting of adjustment, should I start with 15 from soft on each side then work from there with tiny adjustments
@@oogs9114 Yes, thats a good place to start. Then work your way up. But try & feel what the car is doing. So is it understeering mid corner (Try not to get too greedy on the throttle). If you want more rotation on the rear, stiffen up the bump on the rear. If you want more turn in on the front, stiffen up the front bump. If it is too twitchy, then go softer. Good luck
On my kw v3 user book . It says if I have lower bump on the rear will help more with understeer . I am really confused... if I’m having understeer in the mid corner right now , should I bump up at the rear like you said to help the car rotate or should I loosen the rear bump ? I really hope if you could have a video talking about how bumps & rebounds set ups going help on track or mountain driving’s for a FWD. I love your videos ! Thank you so much!🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for your comment. First off, I am a big fan of the KW's!!! So in general, if you add bump on the rear or increase the stiffness, then the back of the back will become more loose and the car should rotate more. But mid corner understeer is a very tricky one to isolate. You need to try find out why the car has the understeer. Is it because you are getting on the power too early? Is it because the car is dropping the inside rear wheel too early? Is there not enough front camber or too much rear camber etc. Often the bump & rebound are there to assist but the real problem is the mechanical grip.. Good luck & let us know how it goes.
@@ssbb_builds2090 Thank you so much!! I can really feel the rotation of the car after I bump up the rear. Feeling like the rear is going out side and I can go into a corner with much more courage ! Again , Thank you so much! I love your videos! Next Sunday I’ll go on to the track , and I’ll try to learn using throttle properly! 👍👍👍👍👍
Yes sir. It all depends on the tyre but yes. Semi Slicks: front = +- 23PSI rear = +- +- 37 PSI But that is a very rough estimate. Real world value & conditions may change that.
How does profile of tyre fall into this? Am I right in saying the more profile you are running the stiffer spring you need as the tyre sidewall will deform and act as the suspension?
Thanks for watching Tom. It’s not so much the profile of the tyre but rather the sidewall stiffness that impacts the setup. Granted a lower profile will most likely have a stiffer sidewall. If the sidewall is soft, then the tyre will fold over on itself during cornering. This will cause understeer.(on the front wheels obviously) You can combat this by running a higher pressure or more camber. Both have trade offs. A softer spring will result in more body roll and more tyre deflection.
@@ssbb_builds2090 Ah okay makes sense, I have put stiffer springs on front now and seems to have improved things. Out of curiosity you mentioned a bad trait of FWD is to oversteer mid corner. I have found with mine that after initial turn in I have to balance the car by using the throttle to attack the apex. Is this a bad trait? (obviously I've adjusted my driving style towards this currently as it works with the car) I don't feel like I'm sacrificing entry speed as the car is super pointy and is near impossible to understeer
Hello Jacques - had a few question after watching your video, hoping you have time to throw some advice out. Question - what sort of g-forces would you expect to see in a well setup street car based racing sedan? And how would we look at that? We see around .9 to 1.1 g in the corners sustained over a second to a second and a half, but I have no idea how to compare that to any other car or even if that's a good way to measure cornering forces? We run a very different setup than yours that seems to work very well for us, so I'm just looking for a bit of a way to compare setups via the internet rather than on track. Our series regularly runs a ton of cars on track (at Daytona we're capped at 120 entries) so it's pretty hard to get any good data under race condtions. We run a limited cost/mods series in the USA in a 98 ford contour (mondeo). We run bilstein b6 shocks with 400 lbs/in springs front and 225 rear, on 255/40r17 falken azenis tires, with 3.5 degrees static camber up front and around 1.5 rear, and no sway bars at all. The car sticks very well but does not like being trail braked in at all due to silghtly more aggressive rear brake compound.
Just having a quick look at the setup, your springs seem very soft for a race car. In the polo, I ran 630 front & 913 rear. That’s not to say that’s where your car will be happy, but your springs seem very soft. If you run a harder spring, you will have to control it with more aggressive rebound on the shock. This might be outside of the B6 range. Try figure out what is the hardest spring you can run with the B6. I would also fit a rear sway bar from a good manufacturer. This will help your cause. The first step really is to look at what the tyre is saying in terms of wear pattern. Try do the temps & see what you get. You will most likely find that the outside is significantly hotter due to body roll. Good luck, let us know how it goes 👍🏻
If you have a lowered car where the suspension arms have a big angles because of it, will it only affect bumpsteer? And if so can you counter this with a bumpsteer kit, so the steering rods do have a straight allignment? Or will you need to get the suspension arm straight as well? Thanks in advance!
It effects bumpsteer due to "Instant Center"; which is determined by the angle of your control arms. Instant Center also influences your roll center. So you can actually have a bigger moment arm of roll by lowering your car too much and pushing your roll center below ground.
Should also mention that you generally get max dynamic camber when your control arm is straight horizontal away from your car, but this is suspension design dependent. Dynamic camber is simply the change in camber value as the suspension compresses or extends - ideally you'd add camber in compression and remove camber in extension. Certainly most MacPhearson strut front suspensions hit max camber with the lower control arm straight out, but if it's straight horizontal at rest, it's probably angling up under compression and removing some camber.
Even If you makes Videos longer than 5-6 hours i will watch them without eating . You such a great man brother please dont stop this . If you can please do a video of FWD Aerodynamics such as rear wings etc stuffs. And tyre sizes aswel . Thank you so much brother this is priceless
Thank you for the great feedback, it is much appreciated.
I have a few more FWD videos planned but will definitely include your recommendations 💪🏻
Appreciate the feedback champ
Basically a shopping list of the things I'd do/buy if I could afford it.
For now eibach sway bars, and semislicks and brembos is my limit.
You'd be surprised how much better a 15yo Mini gets with just those.
Good list, I would prioritize the tires and sway bars for handling. The stock brakes should be enough for stopping power, upgraded brakes are only necessary if you are driving hard for very long periods of time and experience brake fade when doing so. Otherwise, they're pointless.
This video was 100% masterpiece! Gave a lot of knowledge to me.
very underrated and informative channel 10/10
Great information. We have a front wheel drive rally car. Slightly different than a circuit racing car, but test test test, (and still get it wrong lol), get the best feel and run with it.
Thanks champ
Man what am I happy to find your channel!
10/10
Very useful information, thans! :D
Thanks for watching 💪🏻
A question for you.
Front wheel drive track car with non independent rear suspension. Which option would you say is better.
Option A.
Stiffen (box weld etc)your rear axel and don't use an anti roll bar.
Option B.
Don't stiffen your axel, but use a big anti roll bar.
Very interested to hear your point of view on this one.
This is a very good question, thanks for asking.
Option A
Boxing & stiffening the axle is a cost effective option provided you are going to do the work yourself. Disadvantage is that you will not know how much or how stiff it is until you get it on track. The risk is that you make it too stiff & the car becomes too loose on the rear. But the biggest problem with boxing the axle is material fatigue. The metal you weld in to stiffen is often mild steel which does not cope well with consistent bending. So it gets to a point & then just breaks which makes the rear unpredictable.
The best way to do this is to get one of those long "pry bar" straight levers (+- 1.5m long) made out of spring steel. Cut the ends to suit your axle width & stich weld it to the axle over its width(this can be inside, on top, bottom etc.). The stitch welds will allow for the flex & the spring steel will add rigidity to the axle while being able to cope with the twisting.
This is an example of that bar we have locally, not sure wher you are based.
www.builders.co.za/Tools-%26-Protective-Wear/Hand-tools/Chisels-%26-Wreck/Cold-Chisels-%26-Wreck/Lasher-Crow-Bar-25-x-1500mm/p/000000000000294489?gclid=Cj0KCQjwiIOmBhDjARIsAP6YhSU1vLEaR7Sq-NTEKBWkln1Vcm3mtxRh2wgXLBr5N8IQlHD19OZBN7caAnEOEALw_wcB
Sometimes, like on the Clio, the rear axle is stiffened or reenforced for strength purposes. This ads rigidity and you might not need an anti roll bar.
Option B
An anti roll bar is IMHO the better route because it is designed for that exact purpose and made out of spring steel. If you get the adjustable version, or modify one to be adjustable, then you would be able to dial in the correct amount. (Also remember that the track is a living thing, so grip level changes depending on time of year/rain/amount of vehicles on the track/your tyre wear etc.) So you would ultimately want adjustability in a race environment.
Damn it! My lunch break is not long enough. Must reconvene tomorrow!
This is all very well explained!
Thanks for watching 💪🏻
I had no idea about deleting the front sway bar! I'll have to try that!
Give it a go, it will remove grip on the rear.
Should make the car rotate better.
My ignorance bought APR coilovers to find out there is no camber adjustments. I now need to find coilovers with adjustable camber plates. Last track I ran Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s but the rough track and no negative camber corded my tire. June I'm going to another track but not with expensive Michelin tires. I found a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE050A RFT tires tread wear 140 that was cheaper than 2 Cup 2s. My size 245/35r18 is limited in tires I can find. My car is 3,162 pounds without me in it and almost full fuel tank. With me in car the weight distribution is front 63.63% rear 36.37%. I'm ignorant on picking out correct coilovers so I appreciate the information. I want to get better in the corners for sure. Your channel will grow I am sure. I drive a VW also, 2019 VW GTI.
Thank you for your comments.
Good luck and yes, try get some camber in the car 👍🏻
Thank you ~ I just acquired hyundai I30 ~ and installed a set of adjustable coil overs~ your vid helped a lot ~ getting the basic set up idea~
Nice Work mate! Keep going 💪🏽💪🏽
Thank you, appreciate it 🙌🏻
Another fantastic vid! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you for watching!🙌🏻
Keep it up bro! Very informative video.
Amazing 💯
Thank you 🙌🏻
Great and informative, thankyou!!
Appreciate your videos! I would suggest that maybe you can give us a base setup for a dual duty car (daily car with some weekend trackdays) I'm sure many of the viewers have a dual duty car. Not everyone can afford a track car.. I guess something like, front camber -1.5 degree 1mm toe out, and rear camber -1 degree 1,25 toe in?
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, that makes sense. I am planning another soon so will definitely include this 👍🏻
Thanks
You mentioned you would run less camber on a double wishbone front suspension than a macpherson strut. How would that compare to your baseline setup at the end of the video? I have a 94 Honda Civic track car with independent front and rear suspension. Thank you.
Hi, thanks for watching.
It all depends on the car & how much caster the setup has. I would just start with 3.5deg both sides on the front & see how the car reacts. 0mm toe out. Does the tyre want more etc.
Stick with 1.5deg on the rear. 0mm toe out.
You can always adjust from there.
Good luck & thank you for your support..
great video. please share dirt setup too. thanks
Thanks bud
I don’t have any dirt experience however, I might know some people we can bring in to discuss it 💪🏻
When coming up with a baseline for negative camber, my car is about 1600 kg. Would my baseline negative camber be a higher negative number (ex: -4.5 to -5.5) or a lower negative number (ex: -2.5 to -3.5)? Fantastic video as always, thank so much for taking the time to record and post.
Thanks for watching champ.
I would always start with a slightly lower number.
So start with 2.5 for track. But realistically, you will be closer to 3.5.
A good indicator would be to check the outer edge of the tyre for excessive wear. If the outside is wearing a lot on the drive wheels, then you don't have enough camber or, the car has a fundamental handling issue.
Nice explaining, I do suffer problem with the light rear feel very unstable on heavy brake soon after a fast full throttle corner even with dead straight steering wheel.
Which I still have not found the cure, may try to put a rear spoiler hope it won’t hurt straight line speed too much it’s only 150kw on paper
ITS Racer this is a common problem with a FWD but luckily there are a few ways to fix it.
What’s happening is the there is a lot of weight transfer to the front which makes the rear very light.
So in the race cars we install a brake bias controller which allows me to adjust the front/rear brake distribution.
I set it up to about 80%front/20% rear. That stop the rear locking up easily.
You can also lower the rear of the car to make it more stable but you can’t go too low or it will start to understeer.
You can also increase the rear rebound on the shock in combination with lowering the rear.
It also depends on how stiff your front suspension setup is aswell.
Good luck 👍🏻
@@ssbb_builds2090 I been using weaker brake pad in the rear plus the rear rebound is set to max while front is half, F8kg R10kg spring rate. Ride height was close to stock with corner balance. Front 3.8 camber rear 1.8, 0 toe all around. It used to be just little scary but no correction needed but in the last track day kept having to counter steer as I brake to steady the car, how should I use tyre pressure to correct it on the day ?? I have recorded my driving input in GoPro too
ITS Racer sounds good 👍🏻
Unless the tyre pressure is really hard on the rear I.e. 3.0 bar, it shouldn’t make too much difference. You could go a bit softer but that shouldn’t really make a difference.
I would say it’s more the brake bias in combination with corner balancing.
But really try & get a bias adjuster for in the car to dial it in 👍🏻
Less views than it deserves! Great Video!
Thanks bro
Appreciate it!
Great channel my man
Thanks champ 💪🏻
Hello, helpful video thx. However I did not see exact information about rear toe on example in the end of video. What is your recomendation?
Hi, thanks for watching.
Depending on the situation & how the car feels, start with 0mm on the rear & see how the car reacts.
💯
i might have missed it but if i understand correct, toe for both front and rear is toe out?
Correct. I would start at 0 just to be safe and how the car behaves.
How do you ajust front camber on a McPherson strut vehicle?
Usually with adjustable top shock mounts. It largely depends on what car though.
👍
Does top mounted bars on the strut towers or do anything?
A strut brace does work if it is also mounted to the fire wall. A normal strut to strut brace does add but its not worth the effort because in high load applications, the one side will just end up pushing the other side.
Thanks for watching!
How much toe do you put on the rear axle ???
Amazing channel new sub
Thank you sir, much appreciated!
Start with 0mm on the rear for the track. This will loosen the car up a bit but reduce the scrub.
Based on what the car is doing, Can can then reduce our add.
Looking for set information on a McPherson strut oval race car. Thanks
I am not familiar with oval track racing but I would think that the outer wheels get camber & inner gets 0.
Start toe off at 0mm then add depending on what the car is doing.
Hi, first of all really great insight, enjoyed all 49mins! Actually helped me create some good set ups on Forza aha.
I have a renaultsport Twingo 133 and I've downsized from 195/40r17 to 195/50r15 and I'm getting quite a lot o wear on the outer edges and from watching your video it's seems it's going into more positive camber because the side wall isn't as stiff. So I was thinking if that is the case I could try increasing the camber to counter this ( have had a stock alignment done). Maybe 2 degrees. It is a road car driven spiritedly and might do 2 or 3 track days a year. Thank you if you read this.
Thanks for your input.
It’s always a difficult one trying to get a balance between a street setup and a track setup.
It might be worth getting some strings & doing your setup yourself for the track days then change it back for the street.
It’s a lot of work but the car will be much quicker.
Alternatively, go harder on the pressures. You should have good initial grip but the tyre will go off quicker.
Harder pressure should help with the sidewall but not a lot.
It’s always a compromise 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks for watching
Where would you buy custom made springs in South Africa? As in choosing your own spring rate and lowering amount?
Speak to James Hurley @ Koni South Africa. They stock H&R springs in various rates.
They will sort you out. 👍🏻
Hello, I know it’s probably in the video somewhere but just wondering if you have any advice for setting up coil overs on a front heavy Fwd car? Should I make back stiffer than the front? and raise the back slightly more than the front
Hi, thanks for watching.
To answer your question, it depends on the use of the car.
If the car is a pure track car, then you would need to use quite stiff springs on the front. You just need to make sure that the coil over can cope with the stiff spring rate.
Running the back higher than the front will help with initial turn in but will make the car unstable at high speeds. So if you do lift the back up, then start with 5mm.
You generally do run a stiffer spring on the back for a track car but there is a balance, you need to be careful how much stiffer. Start with something 5% harder than the front.
@@ssbb_builds2090 well I’d be using it for fast road use. Say I’m using BC coil overs and they have 30 setting of adjustment, should I start with 15 from soft on each side then work from there with tiny adjustments
@@oogs9114 Yes, thats a good place to start. Then work your way up. But try & feel what the car is doing. So is it understeering mid corner (Try not to get too greedy on the throttle). If you want more rotation on the rear, stiffen up the bump on the rear. If you want more turn in on the front, stiffen up the front bump.
If it is too twitchy, then go softer.
Good luck
On my kw v3 user book . It says if I have lower bump on the rear will help more with understeer . I am really confused... if I’m having understeer in the mid corner right now , should I bump up at the rear like you said to help the car rotate or should I loosen the rear bump ? I really hope if you could have a video talking about how bumps & rebounds set ups going help on track or mountain driving’s for a FWD. I love your videos ! Thank you so much!🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for your comment.
First off, I am a big fan of the KW's!!!
So in general, if you add bump on the rear or increase the stiffness, then the back of the back will become more loose and the car should rotate more.
But mid corner understeer is a very tricky one to isolate. You need to try find out why the car has the understeer. Is it because you are getting on the power too early? Is it because the car is dropping the inside rear wheel too early? Is there not enough front camber or too much rear camber etc.
Often the bump & rebound are there to assist but the real problem is the mechanical grip..
Good luck & let us know how it goes.
@@ssbb_builds2090 Thank you so much!! I can really feel the rotation of the car after I bump up the rear. Feeling like the rear is going out side and I can go into a corner with much more courage ! Again , Thank you so much! I love your videos! Next Sunday I’ll go on to the track , and I’ll try to learn using throttle properly! 👍👍👍👍👍
@@tilman9084 check your front tyre pressure too. If it felt great during turn in but understeer mid corner, its a bit too high.
Tyre pressures for fwd? Some say lower in fronts than reears
Yes sir.
It all depends on the tyre but yes.
Semi Slicks:
front = +- 23PSI
rear = +- +- 37 PSI
But that is a very rough estimate. Real world value & conditions may change that.
@@ssbb_builds2090 its that hot or cold?
The autocross community seems to converge around 5-10% higher in the rears for fwd.
How does profile of tyre fall into this? Am I right in saying the more profile you are running the stiffer spring you need as the tyre sidewall will deform and act as the suspension?
Thanks for watching Tom.
It’s not so much the profile of the tyre but rather the sidewall stiffness that impacts the setup. Granted a lower profile will most likely have a stiffer sidewall.
If the sidewall is soft, then the tyre will fold over on itself during cornering.
This will cause understeer.(on the front wheels obviously)
You can combat this by running a higher pressure or more camber. Both have trade offs.
A softer spring will result in more body roll and more tyre deflection.
@@ssbb_builds2090 Ah okay makes sense, I have put stiffer springs on front now and seems to have improved things.
Out of curiosity you mentioned a bad trait of FWD is to oversteer mid corner. I have found with mine that after initial turn in I have to balance the car by using the throttle to attack the apex. Is this a bad trait? (obviously I've adjusted my driving style towards this currently as it works with the car)
I don't feel like I'm sacrificing entry speed as the car is super pointy and is near impossible to understeer
Hello Jacques - had a few question after watching your video, hoping you have time to throw some advice out. Question - what sort of g-forces would you expect to see in a well setup street car based racing sedan? And how would we look at that? We see around .9 to 1.1 g in the corners sustained over a second to a second and a half, but I have no idea how to compare that to any other car or even if that's a good way to measure cornering forces?
We run a very different setup than yours that seems to work very well for us, so I'm just looking for a bit of a way to compare setups via the internet rather than on track. Our series regularly runs a ton of cars on track (at Daytona we're capped at 120 entries) so it's pretty hard to get any good data under race condtions.
We run a limited cost/mods series in the USA in a 98 ford contour (mondeo). We run bilstein b6 shocks with 400 lbs/in springs front and 225 rear, on 255/40r17 falken azenis tires, with 3.5 degrees static camber up front and around 1.5 rear, and no sway bars at all. The car sticks very well but does not like being trail braked in at all due to silghtly more aggressive rear brake compound.
Thanks for your questions, I will reply to them shortly.
Thanks for watching 🙌🏻
Just having a quick look at the setup, your springs seem very soft for a race car.
In the polo, I ran 630 front & 913 rear. That’s not to say that’s where your car will be happy, but your springs seem very soft. If you run a harder spring, you will have to control it with more aggressive rebound on the shock. This might be outside of the B6 range. Try figure out what is the hardest spring you can run with the B6.
I would also fit a rear sway bar from a good manufacturer. This will help your cause.
The first step really is to look at what the tyre is saying in terms of wear pattern. Try do the temps & see what you get. You will most likely find that the outside is significantly hotter due to body roll.
Good luck, let us know how it goes 👍🏻
If you have a lowered car where the suspension arms have a big angles because of it, will it only affect bumpsteer? And if so can you counter this with a bumpsteer kit, so the steering rods do have a straight allignment? Or will you need to get the suspension arm straight as well? Thanks in advance!
It effects bumpsteer due to "Instant Center"; which is determined by the angle of your control arms. Instant Center also influences your roll center. So you can actually have a bigger moment arm of roll by lowering your car too much and pushing your roll center below ground.
Should also mention that you generally get max dynamic camber when your control arm is straight horizontal away from your car, but this is suspension design dependent. Dynamic camber is simply the change in camber value as the suspension compresses or extends - ideally you'd add camber in compression and remove camber in extension. Certainly most MacPhearson strut front suspensions hit max camber with the lower control arm straight out, but if it's straight horizontal at rest, it's probably angling up under compression and removing some camber.
@@kristopherdavis1765 good post
Great feedback, thank you!