Quran Is Preserved Perfectly?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- This clip is from The Atheist Experience, Episode 28.25 for June, 23 2024 withSecular Rarity (SR) and Armin Navabi!
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Abdur can't answer because he is only repeating what he's been taught and has never questioned it.
But I can explain Christianity ✝️
@@Kinglouisxvi1790 So can I. It's a fictional account of some cult leader, along with the letters of someone trying to get people on to the cult.
Joshy so you go after Christianity you go after the Muslim faith but yet you won't denounce the practice of metzitzah where so many little baby boys are dying from complications due to herpes.
It's kind of interesting joshy it's like you are a member of a certain religion and you're only pretending to be an atheist to try to convince other people to oppose their own culture customs traditions and laws. It's like you believe that you're a human being and people like you are a human being but others are not. Is that what you believe joshy is that what some book teaches you...
@@queueceehey quecee I see you like to go after the Muslims like you do the Christians.
How come you ran away today when I asked you to denounce the practice of metzitzah.?
Didn't I clearly explain tto you how little boys are dying of complications due to herpes from this practice but yet you refuse to denounce it, why is that quecee?
Let's see if you'll denounce it now.
Remember I want you to specifically say that you're denouncing the practice of metzitzah because of the child molestation and the babies dying from this..
We already know you know what it is because I've explained this to you before so you can't use that as an excuse.
Why do you want everybody else to go against the cultural customs traditions laws and beliefs of their forefathers while you embrace yours and refused to denounce the practice of metzitzah.
@joshsheridan9511
I see Apot is now trying to provoke you with lies after you clearly denied unnecessary circumcision on the last video.
If I was a betting man.. Homers Odyssey is perfectly preserved 😂
Armin is right. If a fractured text with many variations is part of the divine plan, then the preservation argument is irrelevant. You could say The Quran could be all text ever written, because it's all part of Allah's plan, and all of it is for our guidance even where there are contradictions. But then we'd have to ask what makes *the* Quran any more special than all the other books Allah has predestined and allowed to exist? What gives it any extra authority?
Dear Abdur,
Try harder.
Respectfully,
Mr. Porter™
A.N. shouts when he argues. Not helpful.
As an ex Mormon who now enjoys watching debates for other religions, this video could have been almost perfectly swapped to a call with a Christian theist. It's crazy to me how the two religions argue over who's right, by using the same talking points.
I'm in several atheist vs theist Facebook groups and I do see what you're saying. You can easily swap the names of the religions in what they say and it won't look any different. What a weird and cruel god that he would allow this to happen and make it so difficult for atheists and theists of other non Abrahamic religions to understand this God
When two circular logics collide, both just spin their wheels ~
From one formon to a fellow formon, congrats on getting out.
@@rickskeptical Hey thanks! Congrats to you as well!
It has always been my contention that the cults have all the same basis. With their apologists having to defend the same crap.
They have all attempted to refine and improve their predecessors' shortcomings and abject failures.
All they ended up with was differentiating fancy dress, hats, fairytale book, delusional rituals, eating habits, skydaddy sidekicks, holy day of the week, commandments/pillars, etc. etc. etc.
Cults, the lot of them.
"They told me to not ask but I had to ask." Already a red flag.
Officially at 170 days without anyone being able to provide any convincing reason to believe in the existence of any god, gods, sin, souls, any form of afterlife, or other divine or supernatural beings.
Only failed attempts.
Getting pretty close to that half year mark with nothing.
@FloridaBJJKickboxing The reason not to believe your claims is that they are not supported by evidence.
@FloridaBJJKickboxing , do you say that evidence is just whatever YOU say is evidence, or are there objective criteria?
@jayrose8638 The Spamming Florida BJ won't break that losing streak by deflecting - that involves asserting that his particular assertions are just true by default in the absence of evidence to the contrary- the argument from ignorance fallacy.
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED
"Getting pretty close to that half year mark with nothing."
Yes floridaboi, you have nothing🤣
No proof of your godling, and still nothing in that head of yours😂
Can you please tell your godling to send someone else, someone I don't have to laught at constantly, because he is that pathetic?
🤣
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED What's your evidence then ? Because if it implies reading the bible in a special way to "learn" that the writers indeed knew about atoms/evolution/others (with something that clearly meant something else), or something that implies things written in the bible saying the bible is right/there were eyewitnesses (it's like me saying i managed to fly in front of 5,000 eyewitnesses), then it's not evidence
the quran being preserved perfectly, is like saying disney perfectly preserved the grimms fairytales....
maybe disney should write a film for the quran, it is just another fairytale after all...
a perfectly preserved lie is still a lie.
17:35 Refuting does not mean denying. Refutation requires proof.
So you have a well preserved pile of BS...so what.
It's interesting how often preaching isn't actually about converting the nonbelievers.
If said preachers actually cared about conversion they'd choose methods other than yelling Bible/Qur'an/etc verses and Church/Temple stories/films at people.
But instead it seems to be more about their ego. Wanting to look like a martyr or simply virtue signalling their fellows.
(Edited for breadth)
It really is about ego, I think. For some, God and ego are pretty much indistinguishable!
It's like the phrase, "I pray for you."
It's not that it does anything, but it gives the person who uttered it the feeling, they did something, something "right".
It the difference between actually doing something and absolving yourself from really doing the thing, by going through a motion, a "ritual".
On one hand it is helplessness, they aren't equiped with real arguments, so they preach.
All it does to us however, is showing how weak their position is, but to them it is the motion that they learned, the "right" thing to do if they have no answers, no arguments, no proof themself.
Well, it worked on them.
I think Florida Boy's latest is a great example. They think it has to work so don't put any effort in.
It's actually about convincing *THEMSELVES!!*
Because their faith is weak.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 They hold a belief that allows them to hold their worst bigoted views. It gives them permission to act out on their hatred. So they HAVE to be right since they are horrible people if god doesn't exist.
Spoiler: God doesn't exist.
"Only I know how to interpret the book" 🙄
Please read my comment to the end
As an atheist from islamic and arabic background, i can say 100% that Quran is not preserved, and here is why
1- There are 7 versions of the Quran, as Armin said, which has many differences.
2- there are many verse are missed or taken out from Quran as sunni and shia said and on top of my head i can say Muhammed wife Aisha said when were busy washing and burying Mohammed, came an animal (pet) and ate verse from Quran whch were stonning and breastfeeding to men and they were drop from Quran, and so many such as this story.
3- when Mohammed was alive he didnt combine Quran in one book, he left it and then when the 3rd Khalifa came Othman he start gothering Quran since many of muslim (whom they were memorise Quran got killed) then Othman took all these in one book and burned all original copies of Quran.
4- After othman in 30 years came Abdalmalik bin Maruan, which he was Amoy Khalifa he did the same of what Othamn did, but he did it to all books that Othman made !!
5- There are many false logical and scientific info in the Quran which he claimed to be brought by the One who created the whole universe, and on top of my head surat At-tarq verse 5-7
He is saying that the human is created by two fluids from man and woman which came in man case from backbone and in woman case from chest bone, which is 100% not accurate and of course not scientific. And there are so many false stuff in there.
For all these points how you have the nerve to come and claim such a strong claim !!!
Uh-oh! @rezacny who claimed, "Abdur won", is gonna have egg on his face!!!
@quecee unfortunately abdur claimed a big claim yet he couldn't even defend it or even provide a single subjective evidence on that
@@husseinhayder7155 Apparently @rezacny must have watched a different video. Or maybe @rezacny is actually Abdur!
@@queuecee LoL , the brainwashing is strong
@@queueceehe is. He's also using several other alts.
An utterly futile conversation
Armin, nice take down. Good knowledge on the specifics.
Also, gods are not real. That should be the first kicker
The reason I'm a Muslim is I grew up with Muslim parents is what he should have said
SR's passive aggression is v unattractive
Another boring God book 😴
Sadly exactly yes.
And the quran is being even more incomprehenseable than the bible and the bible being incomprehenseable also but not as bad as the bible = The Foundation by Isaac Asimov.
Yep. Happy morning to you cobber!
Personally idgaf and idk why i ever would
Do you have a heater in your truck?
(If you don't get the reference, look up The Rodeo Song)
100% AGREE!!
There is an interesting discontinuity in the space/time continuum. Smochy Grice should officially have the first post but somehow Mr Porter, sparrowthesissy, and Snuggles_the_Unholy, who are all AXP subscribers managed to post their comments before the video was even uploaded to RUclips.
They are probably members, so got to see the clip before us lowly plebs. 😁😁😁
Members get access to videos before the general public.
Eddie's in the space/time continuum. And, Smochy's just this guy...
@@Tuna_Man2323 But Gricey's not just any guy - he's a *Tasmaniac!* 😀😇
Why are theists so ignorant about their own religions? Not to mention other religions and the lack of religion? Man.. theists annoy me to no end..
It's like a superpower they have for being wrong and ignoring logic and reason.
That’s the beauty of having a pick and choose religion.
And with a book that has plenty of contradictions you can always find something to support what you want.
And even if you can’t you can just claim a different interpretation.
My frustration is with secular rarity too. Going over and over the point about the caller not getting to the point. Why use 10 words when you've got a hundred? How many different ways are needed to pose one question?
A direct answer wothout any vague language that can mean anything you wsnt at any point is more usefull then any answer that can freely change meaning at any given point.
It is a fault that SR recognises. Hopefully they deal with it.
@@nealjroberts4050 was meant as an observation, not so much a criticism but good to know it's been recognised and seen as something that can be improved on. No condescension intended.
There might be several versions of the quran. The question is, though, which version makes for better toilet paper?
This caller really picked the best time to call, armin and SR are incredibly well read about the quran
Abdur destroyed them
@@stephen42red27
By lying about the Qur'an being perfectly preserved? Sure.
@@stephen42red27No he didn't. Magic and fairies don't exist, neither does Allah or Yahweh
@@stephen42red27 Why do you think you did that well, Abdur?
A legitimate God - One by definition Who is supreme entity (greater than human) or deity - and Who exists - is quite capable of preserving the Truth of His Word forever, regardless of human efforts or mistakes to the contrary or natural disasters. That is because a real God does not need any document at all (tho the written Word is quite useful in its own right) to convey His Spiritual truths, plans and purpose for mankind - which are all imparted Spiritually - but only requires a seeker who will draw near with a humble and sincere desire to hear, listen and heed Him. I have found that John 3 16 - God of the Bible's invitation to all to know His love and promise - opened the door to the knowledge of His existence and His continual presence in my life. If today you 'hear' the sound of His voice in this message, I urge you not to delay but to draw near to Him and He will draw near to you.
"A legitimate God "
Oh look, more drivel....
Pro Tip: If you can't prove your God, then you're just engaging in verbal masturbation...
Everything you typed there was a waste of time as most of us won't read it... and even the few that try will skip the end as its just drivel....
@@t800fantasm2 you read it.
@@wwlib5390 nope... i skimmed it
@@t800fantasm2 well, hang around and keep skimming - even 'dogs' lick up the scraps that fall under the table. Perhaps you'll someday find nourishment from those 'scraps' and they'll sustain you from any future difficulties - since God's Word never goes out without accomplishing its holy purpose.
@@wwlib5390 "since God's Word"
See, this is how we all know you're an idiot...
We don't believe it's God's Word....
Yet here you are day after day posting crap and you're not even smart enough to realise we only argue with you to show everyone how wrong you are...
You're never going to convince anyone here, especially as you cannot prove your God even exists...
Because my analogy is equal to yours. Not one of the four steps have life to give, just like all the steps of getting blood from a turnip have no blood to give. Your desperation is now beyond embarrassing; it was only embarrassing before. I guess one can desperately embrace IMPOSSIBILITY to the point of pathology.
What are the steps for getting blood from a turnip, then?
Cut and paste debunked nonsense is all you have, They/Them. You run away from any live debates, to avoid revealing your utter incompetence. These are the facts. Try to learn.
@@Beacon80 If there were steps, they'd be just as fake as the ones for life from non-life. Why do you continue to talk as if abiogenesis is possible? It couldn't be more impossible.
@@neverendingparty4832If you don't have steps, then your analogy is not the same. You lose.
@@Tuna_Man2323He has this weird tendency to respond to a comment, then copy and paste it into its own thread with no attempt to provide context.
Come on guys. Lets admit Abdur clearly beat Armin and SR. He reconciled the different quranic styles and was a lot more respectful too.
But Abdur still failed to prove any of it was true or that Allah actually exists.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 That wasnt the topic of discussion. I mentioned i have 3 main criteria for why Islam is true, but the topic was focused on the 2nd criteria until i got kicked out form the discussion.
@@thelastrainshower So what? I don't care about style, only substance.
And still no good verifiable evidence that any of it is true or that Allah actually exists.
@@holgerlubotzki3469 Would you be interested in joining a livestream of mine in the future?
@@thelastrainshower I have no desire to be preached at or subjected to apologetics, cherry picking, or literary distortions. If you've got something valid and verifiable then post it here.
For,
At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords. He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.
-- 1 Timothy 6:15-16
No
🤦♂️
So if no human has ever seen him then how did he get crusified?
I doubt that they used blindfolds so that's not it
Atheists already knows the bible isn't reliable for anything. Using bible quotes won't lead you anywhere
Nope
We never die; we just change locations.
your brain has already changed the location
I wonder how it would go for the host of the channel if they were in the middle east doing this, wonder if they would dare to talk about the bible, Islam and mock them live stream, seems very easy with a microphone and a channel tucked away safely in America.
Also, I wonder how the hosts would fare if they were in a spacesuit free floating, tethered to the space station, seems very easy with a microphone and a channel tucked away safely on earth.
Wow! Good point!
Do you support the middle east not having freedom of religion, or what is your point?
@@ApatheticFish3667 george is a perma-victim b1tch.
lolz
@@sanjeevgig8918 I think he's trying to say that he would like the Christian Nationalists to come into power and severely punish anyone who mocks the Bible.
The only reason some of these Christians are against Shariah law is that they want the CHRISTIAN law to be the law of the land.
If your compatriots had their way and made America into the Christian theocracy they are furiously working on, it would be the same there as well.
You happy with that George?
Abdur won. He demonstrated that the different Qur'anic styles did not contradict in overall meaning. We also have a pristine oral tradition with millions of Muslims having memorized the Qur'an, the manuscripts conform, and many non Muslim scholars and academics admit the Qur'an is preserved. You can also look up early quranic manuscripts dated 1st and 2nd century Hijri that contain more than 99% of the same Qur'an we have today.
99% ≠ 100%
So what? Yoyo Ma has memorised all of the JS Bach cello suites.
@@queuecee That's a very petty point on your part. anyways, Codex Topkapı Sarayı Medina 1a has 100% of the Qur'an, and it is dated 1st-2nd century hijrah (AH).
@@holgerlubotzki3469 I am not saying Islām is true because the Qur'ān is preserved; that's only one factor.
@@thelastrainshower Petty point? Do you want your soup to be 99% free of rat dung or 100%? You can't say you have a "pristine" bowl of soup and at the same time mention that 99% of it is not contaminated.
Repent. Believe in Jesus Christ for salvation and become a new person in this life. Luke 13:3 KJV I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Romans 10:9 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Atheists already knows the bible isn't reliable for anything. Using bible quotes won't lead you anywhere
Amen
I’m genuinely curious…. Why is this supposed to be impressive? How is this supposed to convince anyone of anything? Or are you just pulling your own proverbial tube for funsies?
OP, please continue to embarrass yourself for everyone’s amusement.
Programmed to repeat lies over and over. Bots aren't very different from human theists.
The atheists lost. Anyone who is unbiased can see that. KEY POINT IN DISCUSSION: Armin tried to mention how Qur'ān 2:184 in Hafs says that if you cannot fast, you can feed a poor PERSON. In Warsh, it says if you cannot fast, you can feed poor PEOPLE. He tries to make this look like a contradiction. But we know in the books of fiqh (jurisprudence) and tafsīr (Qur'ānic exegesis), these are both compatible for someone who cannot fast. Imām Qurtubī writes on the Tafsīr on 2:184: "The people of Madīnah and Syria read masākīn in the plural rather than miskīn in the singular, but the meaning is the same: one poor person must be fed for each day (of missed fasting)." Hence its one person per day, or multiple people if you include multiple days. Then Armin said you cant use scholars, and this is against the Qur'ān. However, the Qur'ān itself says to ask the people of knowledge, and the hadith as well. This is because the Qur'ān cannot be interpreted by anyone but must be interpreted by scholars who learned from teachers who trace back their isnād (chain) to the Prophet (peace and blessings from Allāh be upon him). SR tried saying, "Well the Qur'ān says its clear and explains everything," therefore, we dont need scholars to explain it. However, this is referring to basic fundamentals of the religion; it does not mean that anyone can interpret the Qur'ān when it comes to detailed rulings in jurisprudence and other topics. Also, they tried to say that the differences in the Qur'ānic styles are just like the differences in the Christian text, which is completely false. The Christians have entirely different bible versions with different number of books, and entire passages are removed from different versions. This is unlike the Qur'ān which has the same content, whether it is in the style of Warsh, Hafs, or some other style, and these styles are compatible in meaning, which I demonstrated. The cowards then kicked me out.
Lol, mythology is hilarious. Pedophile prophets and the dead rising and frost giants -- wild stories.
What did we lose? And is there a difference between those who can fast, but with hardship vs those who can afford to fast?
The atheists lost their bronze age desert nomad superstition and used science to shove smallpox right up the poop chute of the tribal war g0d of Abraham.
That's good news all round.
🤣🤡🤣🤡🤣🤡🤣
Abdur won straight up.
The problem the caller had is that you can't say the Qur'an is perfectly preserved if it isn't.
That you even have to harmonise different textual variants indicates this.
The different variants introduce ambiguity that shouldn't even be present _in the first place_
Why is your holy book the Talmut exempt from criticism?
DonKey was strangely mute
His nervousness very acute
And he got wet and sweaty
at the thought of a Yeti
Reaming out his poop chute!
@@damonkenny7818
Why do you pretend I'm Jewish?
@@nealjroberts4050 _"Why do you pretend I'm Jewish?"_
Why not? DaMonKey pretends he a real human when he is actually a dog third stuck to the shoe of humanity.
Oh... did that come out wrong?
(I hope so!)
@@nealjroberts4050 Or a very strong ally.
Are you a part of the great Christian family?
No such thing, if Christianity was a family it would be more dysfunctional than the Simpsons.
@joshsheridan9511 So you are saying that you are not a part of the great Christian family.
Nope.
Left christianity 41 years ago.
Atheist 41 years and counting.
@@ThroneofDavid8 We can add you to our greater atheist family, if you are feeling lonely.
@quecee There is no atheist family because atheists as a group of people have no overall father or mother.
the gospel of Jesus Christ can save you if you repent of your sins and confess him as Lord
there is salvation in no else! God has given no other name under heaven by which we must be saved
acts 4:12
may God bless u
"Believe what I say arbitarily or else"
@@amtlpaul may God bless u sir
One billion Hindus are saying that you are going to be reincarnated as a room temperature IQ automaton with a g0d delusion. Oh... Wait! That was for THIS time around.
Sorry.
@@Man_Of_Steel_888 I talked to Jesus. You are going to HELL - like the majority of Xtians - just as your "book" says.
See you there.
LOLZ
@@holgerlubotzki3469 roughly eight billion people on earth is the approx consensus all of which need a savior
may God bless u