Thankyou Arbitor. I seem to remember legion of damned being a design project for new sculptors at GW, but the designs of them made them into models for the tabletop
I kinda like the idea of a space marine with failing health from centuries of accumulated battle damage. So often it feels like if a marine doesn't get put in a dreadnought, injuries are inconsequential and prosthetics are so good they work just as well as a flesh and blood limb (which does somewhat undermine the necessity of creating superhumans if you could just make cyborgs that are just as good? Maybe the mechanicus and Iron Hands are right? 😅). I want more Darth Vader like Marines wheezing along but still being incredibly dangerous due to due wargear, experience and powers. That's cool.
I had over a hundred LotD figures back when I painted including a leman Russ and a terminator squad. I even dabbled with a scout unit swapping heads for skulls but I couldn't get it to look like I wanted. I'm still a little bummed about the Fire Hawks being made canon Origin. I liked the idea of the ghosts of fallen Astartes heroes being summoned from the grave in response to prayers to the emperor or the stalwart conviction of those who faced doom without flinching, in his name. The idea that soldiers of the Imperium have come so valiantly up to the brink of death, that the dead stepped though to turn the tide or usher them personally into the afterlife.
Regarding the Legion of the Damned: Back in the day (early 2000s), I got the impression that they were going to be really important in the future, that they were sort of a sign of the end times, with more and more legionnaires appearing as the Astronomican sputtered out and the Golden Throne failed. I wondered if they were going to be featured in some kind of global campaign like the Eye of Terror or something, or turned into an ultra-elite army, almost akin to what the Custodes are now. I think my headcanon was that they were the remnants of all the marines lost to the warp of the millennia, saved by the Emperor's psychic might and kept in a kind of reserve, a bit like the Living Saints or something. People were theorycrafting over these guys like madmen in the heydays of the message boards. Well, none of that happened, and they are now a mere curiosity! It happens! X'D
Legion of the damned was originally the song "camouflage" about a marine in Vietnam being saved by the ghost of another marine. No one will convince me otherwise
Every time I see a chapter whose origin is “Ultramarines, but their gene seed seems to suggest otherwise” my headcannon immediately goes to the Forgotten and the Purged.
That’s because the argument that every successor has to be a clone of its progenitor, is a weakness of thought in this community. Oh, this successor is different and unique? And they are successor of who? The ultramarines? Nonsense, they could only ever be the successor of a traitor Legion, or one of the lost legions.
FUN FACT: In the tabletop RPG Deathwatch, where you play as a Deathwatch marine, in a supplement book, exist rules for Legion of the Damned, but not as created player characters, but as a random event that if one of the PCs dies, he can be reborn as a Legionarie on the spot and make a glorious last stand, so he gain a lot of Buffs and literally Unlimited Ammo for the encounter. So I interpreted that the Legion of the Damned is like Saint Celestine, a hero of the imperium that have super faith and warp connection. AWESOME VIDEO BTW🔥🔥🔥
Extreme arrogance and petulance? Merciless zeal toward heretics? Fire? Hmmm. Nope, can’t think of any older legions that BEARS any resemblance to these descriptors, these WORDS.
There was another youtuber that released a video on the same lore. For the entire time I was listening I thought to myself: " This is great, but I really wish Arbitor Ian told this story." Hopefully I still have still have two wishes.
That's a lot of information about the Fire Hawks I never encountered before - for a long time the only things I knew about them were their participation in the Badab War and them eventually turning into the Legion of the Damned.
I know we've moved long past Heresy content but have you considered doing a video on all the units specific to each legion? (Siege Tyrants, Iron Havocs, etc) Just think it would be cool 😎
You're by far my favourite lore channel. The depth, the content, the presentation is second to none. Plus the badab war is my personal favourite setting
Awesome video. Great to notice the production quality increases. Love this chapter, ever since reading the book during a long weekend. Love the flame designs. Keep up the good work.
There's also Rob Sanders's Legion of the Damned novel that hints that they're the Fire Hawks! Raptorus Rex shows up to blow up the Cholercaust Blood Crusade to save the cemetary world of Certus Minor!
Love the beginning lol the fire hawks are .... love it 😂 and loved reading the small bits of lore in the old white dwarf back in the day so great to see in this thank you.
Stoked to see the Fire hawks, decided to paint up my leviathan box as Fire Hawks as I'm completely enamored with the paint scheme. Plus it makes for a fun way to add some LoD in too!
I seem to recall a short story, maybe from White Dwarf, where the Legion of the Damned are specifically maintained in stasis-chambers by imperial technicians(inquisitorial? mechanicus? I cant remember). That might be a thread to explain their continued existence; maybe the imperium figured out a way to reproduce them? Another thread: I was into the hobby back in the 90s, and it was kind of surprising to me, when I picked it up again a few years ago, to see the Legion of the Damned had mostly disappeared. I wonder if they've decided to sideline them as part of pumping the Deathwatch up?
LOTD were Flame Falcons, all the evidence given and even GW used LOTD images to decipt the Flame Falcons in their official website (checked from wayback machine). They had the grace (for some other reason i believe) and purged with indignity. Legion Of The Damned is a requiem for this event.
The Legion of the Damned are in The Chapter's Due by Graham McNeil. There's a scene where Uriel Ventris and a handful of Ultramarines are in the tombs on Calth and become cornered and surrounded by the Iron Warriors. As the Iron Warriors open fire and are about to wipe out the Ultramarines, the Legion of the Damned appear, seemingly coming out of the tombs and one of them is the ghost of Remus Ventanus, the Captain of the Ultramarines 4th Company during the battle for Calth in the Horus Heresy. In the book it's implied that the Legion of the Damned are in fact the warp ghosts of dead strong-willed loyalist astartes souls given physical form by The Emperor, and from no single given chapter of origin.
Like many things in 40k there are conflicting stories. When they first showed up in 1st edition they were the Fire Hawks, physical beings infected by a warp contagion. Later on they became portrayed as more warp entities and that while the Fire Hawks became Legion of the Damned so to might other Space Marines.
The 2e Codex Ultramarines stated the the Legion was formed by the ghosts of Loyalist that died during the bombing of Calth, but that was removed when the Legion became a special unit available to all Imperial forces, rather than the Ultramarines' version of the Death Company.
@@Woodclaw The Chapter's Due came out in 2010 during 5th Edition, the same year as The Badab War Imperial Armour book which fleshed out the Fire Hawks lore. I don't think that's at all by mistake and seems quite deliberate as part of a refresh of Legion of the Damned to accompany the release of the new Legion of the Damned miniatures in 2010. In 2012 they then also released Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders continuing to add to the refreshed lore.
Any mention of war in the webways " appearance" of the legion if the damned headed by ferrus manus , or is it agreed that they arent the legion if the damned but just a conjuration in fire?
So, serious question, at 14:22, you mention "a couple of centuries later..." after the events of the Badab War. That's no longer accurate since GW has pushed the Badab War to early 900.m41, officially, in the timeline. So does this change the events of the Firehawks and their loss, or just instead of centuries, it's now decades?
The LotD being the Fire Hawks and having become effectively loyalist demons don’t seem to be mutually exclusive. One could be their origin and the other what they have now become.
I'm constantly confusing the Fire Hawks and the Flame Falcons... especially since it's the Flame Falcons who had the curse of self immolation, just like the Legion of the Damned. Weird coincidence.
Yeah i swear the flame falcons were the ones that became the legion of the damned alongside the fire hawks after they were declared renegrade and got lost in the warp, i have a distinct memory of that from i think 5ed space marines codex
@@Woodclaw and that whole self combustion thing was dropped? Thats pretty shitty, i always liked how that sort of fed into the damneds ghostly flames thing
@@henrymaliphant4152 I honestly don't know. Keep in mind that I read most of the lore in Italian for years and the translation for the name of those two chapters are very similar.
I think the LOTD are bound to the weird temporal mechanics of the warps psychic screams. Whenever a key event occurs at any point in time they appear at the pivotal moment. This could be a seemingly low key unimportant event and because they turn the tide it never becomes significant because it is put down. If true, they are an incredibly powerful weapon guiding the imperium. I think they are bound to the Emperor because they only manifest in times after he got psychically amped by the golden throne. I wonder if they even know when they are fighting or if their is any order to when they appear?
Awesome video again!!! When they make a new founding, do they mix Gene seeds between different legions to create a new one, or are the differences in the new legion from their base Gene seed explained by differences in the base human stock used?
I feel like, when it comes to the Legion of the damned (along with a bunch of other things in 40k tbh), just because one answer is cannon, it doesn't make any of the other theories *wrong*, if you get what I mean.
We've seen two extremes among Imperial Fists, also. They're either near incorruptible or fully tainted by the Warp (soul drinkers). And the Exorcists having themselves possessed and daemon banished as part of their development. That said, i don't think the Firehawks are the Legion's origin. Part of the Legion, maybe, but the Legion itself seems to be made of all Chapters, with some taking Astartes in the Devastation of Baal.
The idea that chapters that worship the Emperor as a god are particularly rare is somewhat undermined by the fact that at least two such chapters (the Fire Hawks and the Fire Angels) fought in the Badab War. They seem to be uncommon, but not rare. 🙂
Were always being told that time works diffrently in the warp, wouldn't that explain how they can keep appearing? Even before the Badab war, guided by their weird visions.
Its interesting that the idea that astartes cling to the imperial truth has become so widespread and strongly held. I mean, that was never really true when i was a kid. Space marines were faithful warrior monks, gene tailored and psychologically conditioned to be dedicated to the emporer. The imperial truth was an invention of the horus heresy books, and so is relatively recent.
The Imperial Truth is from the HH books, so post 2006. But the idea that space marines had their own traditions and were not bound by the cult of the Ministorum goes at least as far back as 2ed
The warrior monk thing was always stupid fanon based half on DA/BT look, half on religious players projecting. I mean, even in original 20 founding legions we have ones based on romans, greeks, egyptians, mongols, phoenicians, etc, etc, all of which would find western european monasticism laughable. Ultramarines, source of 70% of loyalist chapters have literally zero in common with monks, instead of being just zealous roman legion, iron hands and raven guard are blatant atheists as far away as possible from any religious zealotry, SW are pagans, really, to find any monks anywhere you need to reach so far you blast past the galactic border. Even DA/BT are only a superficial fit, both are knightly order (which were lay people in real life) and the crosses on their armor have zero in common with religion current fundies are projecting on them...
They’re the legion of the damned? Who the hell were the space marines the emperor unleashed in the webway then? Gods of the warp id kill for some centralized canon
This series on the Badab chapters has been excellent, every chapter sounds so much more interesting than the main four which GW pushes, books like the Taros campaign have been so much better as well, it really is a shame that GW shut the Forge World side down, they lost a lot of good ways to expand the universe.
I tend to dislike the "Dying of slow, wasting disease" origin for the Legion of the Damned, simply because, by its very nature, it puts a hard limit on how long they can operate and at what "Chapter" strength. They will only ever get weaker, unless you retcon them as able to recruit (which just dilutes the premise further). Moreover, I think the disease angle makes the Legion of the Damned less mysterious and spooky. If I were to stick with any theory, I'd cut out the middle man and just make them spooky ghosts, full stop. We know at least one canon event where the Honored Dead of the Imperium rose up to defend it. It's entirely explicable to suppose that Ghosts are just a thing that inhabit the Warp. (Indeed, I advocate for introducing a kind of 40K version of the Nighthaunt, though with far greater allowances for allegiance, depending on the particular motives or grudges of a "Geist Swarm"). Space Marines seem like the kind of people with enough rage and willpower to persist as phantoms. The Legion of the Damned may have been founded or had their ranks flooded by the Firehawks when they initially perished. But Marines have been dying for thousands of years at that point. It's no stretch to say the Legion of the Damned might be any Astartes too dedicated to their cause to let death stop them. Finding cracks in the wall dividing Realspace from the Warp, in order to rush through and join the battle.
It's GW, so experiance shows us that both can be true simultaneously; the Fire Hawks contracted teh warp disease and gradually wasted away before becoming and being joined by more of the Imperiums honoured dead. The one instance becoming the catalyst for the other. I also like the idea that Imperial Saints are defacto deamons of the Emperor.
I am very curious to see an ArbitorIan video about the Rainbow Warriors since I keep reading that they were a first founding chapter in RT, before 2nd edition added the stuff about the 2nd and 11th legion being expurgated from history. Something I don't remember actually seeing the primary sources for at any point, and I didn't get into anything Games Workshop related until 3rd edition of WH40K.
I didn't know the fire hawks and legion of the dammed were one and the same thing. As interesting as this is, im also a bit disappointed.. The mystery has gone. In much the same way as the mystery of 2nd and 11th legions keep them interesting with tiny bread crumb snippets of information. I really liked the fan theories of lotd being a warp presence in much the same way as demons are, but made real through worship of the emperor instead of the chaos gods. Guess that has gone now. Meh, nevermind. On a separate note, great video as always, thanks Ian.
@@Tsotha that, too! But I couldn't avoid thinking of the guy who lost three castles to the swamp (the first one sank in the swamp. So he built a second, that also sank in the swamp. So he built a third, which burned down... and then sank in the swamp!), in Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail xD
The OG fire hawks scheme with the hot rod flames and the mushroom cloud chapter symbol is a brilliant example of RT radness.
Rumor has it their chapter master has a race car bed
Thankyou Arbitor. I seem to remember legion of damned being a design project for new sculptors at GW, but the designs of them made them into models for the tabletop
I kinda like the idea of a space marine with failing health from centuries of accumulated battle damage. So often it feels like if a marine doesn't get put in a dreadnought, injuries are inconsequential and prosthetics are so good they work just as well as a flesh and blood limb (which does somewhat undermine the necessity of creating superhumans if you could just make cyborgs that are just as good? Maybe the mechanicus and Iron Hands are right? 😅). I want more Darth Vader like Marines wheezing along but still being incredibly dangerous due to due wargear, experience and powers. That's cool.
Idk what it is, but weird loyalist warp entities are always the most interesting thing in the setting to me. Give us a crow demon Corax model, GW!
Yes. Crow Daemon Corax MUST become a thing.
Nevermore, ha, more like neverBORN, amiright?
When Demon Primarch-Lorgar comes back to the setting Raven-Lord Corvus Corax won't be far behind.
I had over a hundred LotD figures back when I painted including a leman Russ and a terminator squad. I even dabbled with a scout unit swapping heads for skulls but I couldn't get it to look like I wanted.
I'm still a little bummed about the Fire Hawks being made canon Origin.
I liked the idea of the ghosts of fallen Astartes heroes being summoned from the grave in response to prayers to the emperor or the stalwart conviction of those who faced doom without flinching, in his name.
The idea that soldiers of the Imperium have come so valiantly up to the brink of death, that the dead stepped though to turn the tide or usher them personally into the afterlife.
Regarding the Legion of the Damned: Back in the day (early 2000s), I got the impression that they were going to be really important in the future, that they were sort of a sign of the end times, with more and more legionnaires appearing as the Astronomican sputtered out and the Golden Throne failed. I wondered if they were going to be featured in some kind of global campaign like the Eye of Terror or something, or turned into an ultra-elite army, almost akin to what the Custodes are now. I think my headcanon was that they were the remnants of all the marines lost to the warp of the millennia, saved by the Emperor's psychic might and kept in a kind of reserve, a bit like the Living Saints or something. People were theorycrafting over these guys like madmen in the heydays of the message boards.
Well, none of that happened, and they are now a mere curiosity! It happens! X'D
Legion of the damned was originally the song "camouflage" about a marine in Vietnam being saved by the ghost of another marine.
No one will convince me otherwise
That's a good theory.
The reason you are the best 40K RUclipsr is because you go directly to the source marital and books rather than the wiki.
The benefits of Ian being a 40K fan for almost 30 years.
I myself am 48 and got into 40K in 1994.
Ironically they do more good as ghosts.
Also, I'm excited for your video on the Star Phantoms ian.
Every time I see a chapter whose origin is “Ultramarines, but their gene seed seems to suggest otherwise” my headcannon immediately goes to the Forgotten and the Purged.
The truth is right before your eyes
That’s because the argument that every successor has to be a clone of its progenitor, is a weakness of thought in this community. Oh, this successor is different and unique? And they are successor of who? The ultramarines? Nonsense, they could only ever be the successor of a traitor Legion, or one of the lost legions.
FUN FACT: In the tabletop RPG Deathwatch, where you play as a Deathwatch marine, in a supplement book, exist rules for Legion of the Damned, but not as created player characters, but as a random event that if one of the PCs dies, he can be reborn as a Legionarie on the spot and make a glorious last stand, so he gain a lot of Buffs and literally Unlimited Ammo for the encounter. So I interpreted that the Legion of the Damned is like Saint Celestine, a hero of the imperium that have super faith and warp connection. AWESOME VIDEO BTW🔥🔥🔥
Anyone else feel like Ian could read the phone book and still sound cool?
Anyone under a certain age is wondering what a 'phone book' is...
@@derekmcmanus8615do you know what a rotary phone is? A vcr? Kids are smart, they know what a phone book is
Astartes so callous they had to be turned into ghosts before they started actually helping out.
Extreme arrogance and petulance? Merciless zeal toward heretics? Fire?
Hmmm. Nope, can’t think of any older legions that BEARS any resemblance to these descriptors, these WORDS.
I see where you’re going with this… black templars
@@greendalf123 Nononono! This is the Ghost Bears and the 40K/Battletech mashup universe theory! *airpunch*
My extra tiny metal Legion of The Damned models thank you for this.
I'm living for these chapter examinations! I get so psyched when I see one pop up!
There was another youtuber that released a video on the same lore. For the entire time I was listening I thought to myself: " This is great, but I really wish Arbitor Ian told this story." Hopefully I still have still have two wishes.
That's a lot of information about the Fire Hawks I never encountered before - for a long time the only things I knew about them were their participation in the Badab War and them eventually turning into the Legion of the Damned.
Now that was an intense "HI GANG" 😂
I know we've moved long past Heresy content but have you considered doing a video on all the units specific to each legion? (Siege Tyrants, Iron Havocs, etc) Just think it would be cool 😎
You're by far my favourite lore channel. The depth, the content, the presentation is second to none. Plus the badab war is my personal favourite setting
Awesome video. Great to notice the production quality increases. Love this chapter, ever since reading the book during a long weekend. Love the flame designs. Keep up the good work.
There's also Rob Sanders's Legion of the Damned novel that hints that they're the Fire Hawks! Raptorus Rex shows up to blow up the Cholercaust Blood Crusade to save the cemetary world of Certus Minor!
Thanks, Ian! Lovely video, delivered with your usual clarity, wit and aplomb, and a normal number of adverts! Thumbs up!
Love the beginning lol the fire hawks are .... love it 😂 and loved reading the small bits of lore in the old white dwarf back in the day so great to see in this thank you.
You are easily my favorite WH40K RUclipsr. Your videos are so well done and I'm always excited to see a new one pop up. Thank you.
The picture of space marines at 18:00 'Brother Craig' lol
Can't wait for you to get to The Lamenters! These videos are great.
Tldr: petty space bastards get karma pretty hard and see the error of their ways..?
This Badab chapters series is the best told lore on youtube, keep it up!!
You're on FIRE with these releases =)
Stoked to see the Fire hawks, decided to paint up my leviathan box as Fire Hawks as I'm completely enamored with the paint scheme. Plus it makes for a fun way to add some LoD in too!
I really love the background for the Fire Hawks/Legion of the Damned. Your video, and the one by Olden Demon, provide excellent coverage.
Hell yeah new arbitor ian vid
Fire hawk tuah
I cackled
Thank you Google translate, very cool
I enjoy these videos. Thanks, Arbitor.
Great works as always! I enjoy them, but please, give us your take on the la lamenters. or if you make them the last make them great!
I seem to recall a short story, maybe from White Dwarf, where the Legion of the Damned are specifically maintained in stasis-chambers by imperial technicians(inquisitorial? mechanicus? I cant remember). That might be a thread to explain their continued existence; maybe the imperium figured out a way to reproduce them?
Another thread: I was into the hobby back in the 90s, and it was kind of surprising to me, when I picked it up again a few years ago, to see the Legion of the Damned had mostly disappeared. I wonder if they've decided to sideline them as part of pumping the Deathwatch up?
It was inquisition and it ended up escaping I think WesHammer has a video about it in his horror series
@@SoulJnr oh sweet! Thanks for the info
AH, the Fire Hawks , the most sympathetic and unproblematic faction of the Badab war.
LOTD were Flame Falcons, all the evidence given and even GW used LOTD images to decipt the Flame Falcons in their official website (checked from wayback machine). They had the grace (for some other reason i believe) and purged with indignity. Legion Of The Damned is a requiem for this event.
Damn their scheme is.... Well.... Fire 🔥
The Legion of the Damned are in The Chapter's Due by Graham McNeil. There's a scene where Uriel Ventris and a handful of Ultramarines are in the tombs on Calth and become cornered and surrounded by the Iron Warriors. As the Iron Warriors open fire and are about to wipe out the Ultramarines, the Legion of the Damned appear, seemingly coming out of the tombs and one of them is the ghost of Remus Ventanus, the Captain of the Ultramarines 4th Company during the battle for Calth in the Horus Heresy. In the book it's implied that the Legion of the Damned are in fact the warp ghosts of dead strong-willed loyalist astartes souls given physical form by The Emperor, and from no single given chapter of origin.
Like many things in 40k there are conflicting stories.
When they first showed up in 1st edition they were the Fire Hawks, physical beings infected by a warp contagion.
Later on they became portrayed as more warp entities and that while the Fire Hawks became Legion of the Damned so to might other Space Marines.
The 2e Codex Ultramarines stated the the Legion was formed by the ghosts of Loyalist that died during the bombing of Calth, but that was removed when the Legion became a special unit available to all Imperial forces, rather than the Ultramarines' version of the Death Company.
@@Woodclaw The Chapter's Due came out in 2010 during 5th Edition, the same year as The Badab War Imperial Armour book which fleshed out the Fire Hawks lore. I don't think that's at all by mistake and seems quite deliberate as part of a refresh of Legion of the Damned to accompany the release of the new Legion of the Damned miniatures in 2010. In 2012 they then also released Legion of the Damned by Rob Sanders continuing to add to the refreshed lore.
It would be fun to say that the forbidden use of the 2nd or 11th geneseed's are what caused the cursed founding
If we hang on long enough we will eventually get a video on the Carcharadons.
Such awesome colour scheme.
Any mention of war in the webways " appearance" of the legion if the damned headed by ferrus manus , or is it agreed that they arent the legion if the damned but just a conjuration in fire?
So, serious question, at 14:22, you mention "a couple of centuries later..." after the events of the Badab War.
That's no longer accurate since GW has pushed the Badab War to early 900.m41, officially, in the timeline.
So does this change the events of the Firehawks and their loss, or just instead of centuries, it's now decades?
The LotD being the Fire Hawks and having become effectively loyalist demons don’t seem to be mutually exclusive. One could be their origin and the other what they have now become.
I'm constantly confusing the Fire Hawks and the Flame Falcons... especially since it's the Flame Falcons who had the curse of self immolation, just like the Legion of the Damned. Weird coincidence.
Yeah i swear the flame falcons were the ones that became the legion of the damned alongside the fire hawks after they were declared renegrade and got lost in the warp, i have a distinct memory of that from i think 5ed space marines codex
I believe at some point the stories of the two chapters were merged into one.
@@henrymaliphant4152 the Fire Hawks and Flame Falcons sound like 2 different in-universe garbled accounts of the same chapter's history
@@Woodclaw and that whole self combustion thing was dropped? Thats pretty shitty, i always liked how that sort of fed into the damneds ghostly flames thing
@@henrymaliphant4152 I honestly don't know. Keep in mind that I read most of the lore in Italian for years and the translation for the name of those two chapters are very similar.
They are revenants, the Emperors Spirirts of vengeance and wrath. Even in Death they still serve. "In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis."
Feed the fire.
Let the last cinders burn.
crazy how their chapter symbol went from a hawk to a skull
I'm now considering a Legion of the Damned Kill Team! Angels of Death indeed!
I think the LOTD are bound to the weird temporal mechanics of the warps psychic screams. Whenever a key event occurs at any point in time they appear at the pivotal moment. This could be a seemingly low key unimportant event and because they turn the tide it never becomes significant because it is put down. If true, they are an incredibly powerful weapon guiding the imperium. I think they are bound to the Emperor because they only manifest in times after he got psychically amped by the golden throne. I wonder if they even know when they are fighting or if their is any order to when they appear?
Wow, they are loathsome.
Their ship name is hilarious, Raptorus Rex
Good explanation!
Thanks for the video
Awesome video again!!! When they make a new founding, do they mix Gene seeds between different legions to create a new one, or are the differences in the new legion from their base Gene seed explained by differences in the base human stock used?
Doesn’t the legion of the damn chronological appear in the HH in the emperor of mankind book?
In the final battle for the impossible city
I feel like, when it comes to the Legion of the damned (along with a bunch of other things in 40k tbh), just because one answer is cannon, it doesn't make any of the other theories *wrong*, if you get what I mean.
Oh sweet, Zarathos' own Space Marine Legion! 🔥💀
We've seen two extremes among Imperial Fists, also. They're either near incorruptible or fully tainted by the Warp (soul drinkers). And the Exorcists having themselves possessed and daemon banished as part of their development.
That said, i don't think the Firehawks are the Legion's origin. Part of the Legion, maybe, but the Legion itself seems to be made of all Chapters, with some taking Astartes in the Devastation of Baal.
Yes another video. Feels like it's been to long
The old Rogue Trader 'fluff' was excellent
The idea that chapters that worship the Emperor as a god are particularly rare is somewhat undermined by the fact that at least two such chapters (the Fire Hawks and the Fire Angels) fought in the Badab War. They seem to be uncommon, but not rare. 🙂
Or maybe when you have space marines gone rogue, the Adeptus prefers to bring in the religious ones?
Statistical analysis is required
These guys seem like absolute fanatics and unrepentant arseholes
High Lords: They are perfect
was wondering if you are gonna do one of these for exorcists
I really hope GW continues to support legion of the Damned and gives us an explanation as to how we can field primaris LOD
And why exactly do you need lod to be primaris?
Can you do Lamenters soon Ian? Thank you!!
Were always being told that time works diffrently in the warp, wouldn't that explain how they can keep appearing? Even before the Badab war, guided by their weird visions.
After reading almost 20 books from the Horus Heresy series.. and only reading Imperial Armor on Badab... BADAB > HH
Its interesting that the idea that astartes cling to the imperial truth has become so widespread and strongly held. I mean, that was never really true when i was a kid. Space marines were faithful warrior monks, gene tailored and psychologically conditioned to be dedicated to the emporer. The imperial truth was an invention of the horus heresy books, and so is relatively recent.
The Imperial Truth is from the HH books, so post 2006. But the idea that space marines had their own traditions and were not bound by the cult of the Ministorum goes at least as far back as 2ed
I remember them praying "by our gods, and the Emperor" in one part of the 3rd Edition codex.
@ArbitorIan sure, but thats not really the same thing.
The warrior monk thing was always stupid fanon based half on DA/BT look, half on religious players projecting. I mean, even in original 20 founding legions we have ones based on romans, greeks, egyptians, mongols, phoenicians, etc, etc, all of which would find western european monasticism laughable. Ultramarines, source of 70% of loyalist chapters have literally zero in common with monks, instead of being just zealous roman legion, iron hands and raven guard are blatant atheists as far away as possible from any religious zealotry, SW are pagans, really, to find any monks anywhere you need to reach so far you blast past the galactic border. Even DA/BT are only a superficial fit, both are knightly order (which were lay people in real life) and the crosses on their armor have zero in common with religion current fundies are projecting on them...
The fire hawks have join the legion in death as einherjar of the Allfather.
Basically pressed the like button immediately after the first line.
They’re the legion of the damned? Who the hell were the space marines the emperor unleashed in the webway then? Gods of the warp id kill for some centralized canon
In Dedicato Imperatum Ultra Articulo Mortis ☠
This series on the Badab chapters has been excellent, every chapter sounds so much more interesting than the main four which GW pushes, books like the Taros campaign have been so much better as well, it really is a shame that GW shut the Forge World side down, they lost a lot of good ways to expand the universe.
Personally I like the idea that the legion of the damned are actually the spirits of the loyalists of isstvaan III.
Completely unrelated. Ian doesn’t strike me as much of a video game person, but I wonder what he would think of the Rogue Trader game.
I tend to dislike the "Dying of slow, wasting disease" origin for the Legion of the Damned, simply because, by its very nature, it puts a hard limit on how long they can operate and at what "Chapter" strength. They will only ever get weaker, unless you retcon them as able to recruit (which just dilutes the premise further). Moreover, I think the disease angle makes the Legion of the Damned less mysterious and spooky.
If I were to stick with any theory, I'd cut out the middle man and just make them spooky ghosts, full stop. We know at least one canon event where the Honored Dead of the Imperium rose up to defend it. It's entirely explicable to suppose that Ghosts are just a thing that inhabit the Warp. (Indeed, I advocate for introducing a kind of 40K version of the Nighthaunt, though with far greater allowances for allegiance, depending on the particular motives or grudges of a "Geist Swarm"). Space Marines seem like the kind of people with enough rage and willpower to persist as phantoms.
The Legion of the Damned may have been founded or had their ranks flooded by the Firehawks when they initially perished. But Marines have been dying for thousands of years at that point. It's no stretch to say the Legion of the Damned might be any Astartes too dedicated to their cause to let death stop them. Finding cracks in the wall dividing Realspace from the Warp, in order to rush through and join the battle.
It's GW, so experiance shows us that both can be true simultaneously; the Fire Hawks contracted teh warp disease and gradually wasted away before becoming and being joined by more of the Imperiums honoured dead. The one instance becoming the catalyst for the other. I also like the idea that Imperial Saints are defacto deamons of the Emperor.
The phoenix symbol is not that different in shape to the original mushroom cloud iconography, I'd bet that was intentional.
Idk, still prefer the Legion of the Damned being the souls of those betrayed at Istvaan III.
If my name was Stibor I would also be mad all the time
I love the LoD. I wish they had better rules in 10th.
Lamentable Boiyos next 😢🩸?
Rainbow Warriors when, Loremaster Ian?
I am very curious to see an ArbitorIan video about the Rainbow Warriors since I keep reading that they were a first founding chapter in RT, before 2nd edition added the stuff about the 2nd and 11th legion being expurgated from history. Something I don't remember actually seeing the primary sources for at any point, and I didn't get into anything Games Workshop related until 3rd edition of WH40K.
Firebombing a planet; how do you even do that? I can only imagine loads and loads of phosphorus-bombs
There was a type of Exterminatus that sets the planet's whole atmosphere on fire
Hey ian hope youre ok
Emperor’s Children Geneseed going on here.
Doesn’t the inquisition have one of them in a cell?
I hope the LoD make a comeback in some way/shape/ form.
"Brother... are we the baddies?"
I'm doing my part to please Algo
I think I preferred it when The Legion Of The Damned were more ambiguous with their origin/nature
I love fire hawks but I could never nail down the paint scheme
I didn't know the fire hawks and legion of the dammed were one and the same thing.
As interesting as this is, im also a bit disappointed.. The mystery has gone.
In much the same way as the mystery of 2nd and 11th legions keep them interesting with tiny bread crumb snippets of information.
I really liked the fan theories of lotd being a warp presence in much the same way as demons are, but made real through worship of the emperor instead of the chaos gods. Guess that has gone now. Meh, nevermind.
On a separate note, great video as always, thanks Ian.
Called a as...l one's in a place that minotaurs space shark's and star phantoms are say many things.
makes sense
Am I the only one thinking the Fire Hawks' seeming inability to hold a Chapter homeworld for more than half a minute is a Monty Python reference?
I thought it was somehow tied to all their phoenix symbolism, myself
@@Tsotha that, too! But I couldn't avoid thinking of the guy who lost three castles to the swamp (the first one sank in the swamp. So he built a second, that also sank in the swamp. So he built a third, which burned down... and then sank in the swamp!), in Monty Python and the quest for the holy grail xD
Ferrus manus is the leader of the legion of the damed , cannon 😮
They originally were the remnants of the lost 2nd or 11th. There to redeem themselves. Or it's another theory.