Debating ALL ITEMS in The Binding of Isaac Repentance (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- As mentioned in previous videos, this will be one of many Isaac streams that we will do to slowly but surely cover the entirety of all the items in The Binding of Isaac Repentance. So this is only part 2.
There is no set schedule to these streams, but I will keep you all updated days ahead of time on both community posts like this one, as well as on my channel discord.
I will say ahead of time that we are not going to heavily rely on chat for actual placements of the items, it is our combined list after all, so me and Turt are the strongest opinions on this list. Feel free to say stuff that we are neglecting to mention about an item, there is a chance one of us will see it and talk about the points accordingly. I think the furthest we'd go is a chat poll to break a tie between two items if we are struggling to confirm which one is better. This is mainly done so that the RUclips videos posted from these stream VODs can still be enjoyed without actually being in the stream (Also because I know the stream start time isn't optimal for most people, Turt is Australian lol). The original plan was to post one big video that combines all the VODs into one video, but apparently RUclips doesn't let you post over 12 hour long vids...and considering shop pool alone was 7 hours...yeeeeeah it's gonna be well over 12 hours worth of VODs lmao.
This is the 1000 Subscriber special! Thank you all for the massive support on these videos, I'm super thankful to all of you watching us yap for hours and hours. This will be streamed right here on my RUclips channel as opposed to my Twitch, so I hope to see a lot of the same commenters in chat!
I can just picture them looking at a Chair, Pointing and saying INSANE.
From Wiki-After a boss or mini-boss has had a status effect applied on them, they will receive immunity against all status effects for 8 seconds. This means that no other status effect can be applied to that enemy during this period.
The slow effect is an exception to this rule.
slow effects Are great on bosses do to them being persistent on bosses
PUT BOB'S ROTTEN HEAD HIGHER FOR THE LOVE OF GOOOOODDDD
I think the fact that magic mush can come from random mushrooms makes it insane.
I think it's a little too rare for an entire tier bump, at most it might go above D6 but even then D6 is just so good
I actually like cricket’s head more than mush.
I know that size up doesn’t increase your hitbox beyond normal, but it still messes with my dodges.
The speed and range ups are also rarely useful. I find the +0.5 dmg up cricket’s head give more useful than Magic Mush’s other effects more often than not.
I also am not sure if size up doesn’t increase your hitbox _at all_ or if it just doesn’t increase your hitbox beyond normal.
might have to test it with Pluto to see
@@victorkao1472 Size up just doesn't bring you beyond default. But it will undo a size down you have previously had. Tbf this is a good point against mush that I kinda overlooked. Personally I'd have crickets head higher than homing so I agree the difference between the items isn't that big, but I have had several runs that needed the stats or ESPECIALLY runs that really appreciated the full red health heal that I believe magic mush is def better even when accounting for size up.
@@turtier I see. Yeah the full heal definitely comes in clutch sometimes. I forgot about that lol
Im shocked and appalled that d6 has been done so dirty
I mean, it could still be subjected to change. It’s at the top of A+ for a reason. But because this list is so large, the condition to make the insane tier is much stricter
@@victorkao1472 This is very true, it's still POSSIBLE for it to shift up to bottom of INSANE, just like Dr. Fetus did. It's just comparing it to D Infinity which is only much better, which is ALSO low INSANE, I think we made the right call for now
I'm so sad I missed it! You guys are totally right about D6 btw
3:02:01 además "el clavo" cuenta para la transformación de Leviatán, que no es algo que deberían dejar de lado teniendo en cuenta que para otros items si tuvieron en cuenta sus transformaciones
I know that you don't take into account how you aquire an item but I feel for dollar it's relevant. On average, you need to already have coins in order to blow up the slot machine for dollar. You only use slot machines when you don't have any other use for your money.
Dollar is nice to get but I don't think I have ever needed it because it's during times I'm literally trying to throw away money. I'm usually more upset seeing it after it blows up my machine denying me of my third pretty fly
I actually think youre right, in practice its barely ever actually useful
Yeah. I think it definitely matters under which criterion you rank these items.
Do you just start the run with the item, or do you factor into where you get these items?
If it’s the former, then Dollar is not too bad.
But if it’s the latter, then every devil deal should be lowered. Dollar is also a lot less useful considering the only way you get dollar is through slot machine, which you will only play when you already have a lot of money (or very rarely from chaos).
Dollar is a super weird item on the list so I understand why the criteria feels weird for it, but ultimately I feel like factoring in the spawn criteria ends up more just as punishing the item for rarity, and I've specifically been trying to avoid item rarity because I want to keep things fair. It's weird to say but I unironically think dollar is one of the rarest items in the game. It means that the times I have got dollar are rare, and it's true that dollar is most common in womb, when it isn't very useful, but literally almost every time I get it earlier than womb I remember it being very good, more than the average first floor steam sale. Usually I'm not putting much money in a slot machine which means whenever I get dollar early in the run, it's because I used just a few coins on slot machine because I was desperate for a consumable and the shop didn't have what I needed. On those runs, dollar is massive. I've also had glowing hourglass runs where I wasted some money on a slot just because I know I can reset and I end up getting dollar. On Eden starts, dollar is massive. Still a rare scenario but spindown dice turning boom into dollar is massive. All these cases are rare but it shows to me clearly how good dollar would be as an item room item and these scenarios have happened to me enough times that factoring it in purely as only appearing on runs with high money is inaccurate in my opinion.
@@victorkao1472Criteria is closer to "starting the run with the item". I feel like having some items literally from basement is too big of an advantage to them though so I'd say somewhere in caves is a better point to assume you get the item (all angel items are easily available by this point too, so using caves as a base floor allows basically all items to be realistically available). Either way, item rarity and spawn criteria is mostly ignored. I'm more willing to give slight boosts to items that are common spawns, like iv bag. It kinda applies to small rock too, personally I'd not give it enough of a boost to beat out Steven but I think where it ends up going on the list is reasonable given it being common. I consider being common as an advantage since it can be aimed for, but due to how big item pools are it means most of the items in the game aren't common enough for that to be a factor. Even small rock isn't super common but it can be hunted for and that does help runs that are low on damage a fair amount. Dollar is rare even as a slot machine reward so I'd rather mostly ignore that aspect, especially since it can be found without much commitment anyway (as I said in my other comment in this thread).
Unfortunately since it's not part of an item pool it can't be found with chaos, but I'll still headcannon the "choice item room with chaos" for all items on the list since I'm trying to only compare the effects of the items themselves. Because yeah, as you say, it otherwise means all devil items need to be moved down, and that's simply not a list I am interested in discussing. It made sense to factor cost in the dedicated devil room list but in all items I don't think it makes sense (especially since there are many ways to cheat the cost).
Another way I think of the list is "I get death certificate in caves, on average how good is each item?" Something like dr fetus is very good sometimes but terrible other times so it averages out to bottom A+ / top A-. For more simple items, it's obvious I'd rather take magic mush than growth hormones. Not that I'd ever take growth hormones from death cert, but it would almost always benefit my run more than taking wooden spoon would. Looking at things this way, it makes sense that taking the money from dollar would probs give more benefit to a run than many of the items below it on the list.
@@turtier I see. Wow I didn't know it's impossible to get dollar from chaos, interesting.
Yeah, the death cert scenario makes sense.
I mean, i agree with d6 in the ranking, but I dont see Dinfinity a tier above. But it's probably just because i never got that item after getting repentance so i never used the buffed version of that item lol, so ill just trust
Even just knowing how it works should be enough, its actually just having all the dice items, you can switch as much as you want
Yeah. Dinfinity is great.
Other than d6, d1 is great in chest/dark room, d4 is great if you abused the d4 bug. Ed6 is useful when you have a lot of items to re-roll but not enough rooms.
D7 is better than d1 in chest/dark room if you have high luck, especially if you find a big room.
D8 is great, especially in womb where there’s isn’t anything to roll. Just spam d8 until you get a good dmg and tears multiplier.
D12… eh, I mean it’s alright. I’d rather save charges for d6
D20 is also great for rigging
@@victorkao1472 how do you rig with d20 outside of the greed mode? I know manner tried to explain it but like turt i never got how to gamebreak with it
@@lukinhas8386 I don't really know how to explain it, it can't be done on every floor but there is usually always one floor in the run where you can get the game break going, arcades are a super consistent room to get a bunch of random pickups in
I remember loving Relic but it was heavily nerfed in Repentance. I think it was a soul heart after 5 rooms before.
The difference doesnt seem big but it actually is. Even before, Book of Rev was better than relic despite needing 6 rooms. Now, is way better than Relic, where there isnt even a discussion about it.
But the truth is, even comparing Relic to Book of Rev gives too much credit to Relic.
As someone who loved the item, i genuinely think right now, it is actually worse than all the damage ups (leaving it at bottom B+). 8 rooms for 1 soul heart ends up amounting to actually very little soul hearts for the whole run. You can get this item in womb 1 and it probably ends up giving you 4~5 soul hearts during the entire run. Basically 1 (+ 2~/8)~ per floor, is actually that bad in value. I need to test it but The Nail probably gives way more health than this item.
Its pretty sad, like many of the nerfs. I think this one was still one of the worst, making 6~7 would have been better change as a quality 3. Otherwise this item should be lowered to quality 2.
Went from 5-6 rooms to 7-8. 2 extra rooms per soul heart probably does add up to quite a lot though. Nail almost certainly gives less though, its 12 rooms per black heart, you can consider it a little less since big rooms exist, but relic likely gives more hearts AND doesn't take the active slot. Book of revelations can justify being an active item because the heart generation is a lot more, but nail having worse heart gen means it gets significantly hindered imo.
@@turtier i dont know the expression that is the opposite of "glow up", but thats what i felt when using the relic in Repentance.
I do think with battery synergies, double rooms, battery spawns, the rock removal, the damage aplications and being actually half a black heart, the nail is on top of Relic.
But even then, Relic feels far more closer to The Nail than book of rev, at least for me.
I do need to ackwoledge that i havent played as much isaac as you two, but after repentance, i dont remember a single time where the Relic really helped much in a run. Instead, i remember a couple of runs saved by the Nail. At least in my experience, the nail is better, not much better, maybe even just above it, but still better.
Damn no comments, bro really fell off 💙
truuuuue