Jive Book Review: Theurgy and the Soul by Gregory Shaw

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  • Опубликовано: 12 окт 2024
  • Jive Book Review of Theurgy and the Soul The Neoplatonism of Iamblichus by Gregory Shaw, Professor of Religious Studies at Stonehill College. In this work he outlines the philosophy and ritual practise of Iamblichus of Syria (ca. 240 325), whose teachings set the final form of pagan spirituality prior to the Christianization of the Roman Empire. Theurgy literally means "divine action" or "godly work"
    I describe how this work is useful for modern polytheists including Heathens like myself.
    Learn to conduct rituals here: startingheathe...
    Please support Survive the Jive: linktr.ee/Surv...

Комментарии • 47

  • @jivetalk
    @jivetalk  4 дня назад +11

    Learn to conduct rituals here: startingheathenry.thinkific.com/

  • @e.c.winsper3750
    @e.c.winsper3750 4 дня назад +23

    Fantastic as always. The point about the fundamental importance of ritual is very well put. I just finished reading 'Hellenic Tantra' yesterday, it's also very good.

    • @Survivethejive
      @Survivethejive 4 дня назад +5

      How does it differ in content from this book?

    • @e.c.winsper3750
      @e.c.winsper3750 4 дня назад +9

      ​@@Survivethejive It directly compares theurgic practices and concepts to Indian tantric equivalents.

    • @Bromios18
      @Bromios18 3 дня назад

      ​@@e.c.winsper3750
      Does it make an analogy between the ritual and the inner practice? One of the most common disputes in the theurgical question is whether there is a higher order and a lower one, an internal and an external one. Beyond discussions, I am interested in the phenomenological and internal aspect in analogy with theurgical operations, with the ontological degrees or hypostases and their knowledge... etc.
      Thank you

    • @e.c.winsper3750
      @e.c.winsper3750 3 дня назад

      @@Bromios18 That is gone over much more deeply in the book STJ is reviewing here, though it is also discussed there.

    • @Bromios18
      @Bromios18 3 дня назад

      ​@@e.c.winsper3750
      I am familiar with Theurgy and the Soul, but I was hoping that Shaw would speak in relation to dharma, specifically regarding yoga (states like samadhi, dhyana...) or with schools like Mimamsa. This surely goes beyond the tantric realm, but there would be material

  • @MintiePro
    @MintiePro 4 дня назад +20

    Keep Surviving the Jive.

  • @landofthesilverpath5823
    @landofthesilverpath5823 4 дня назад +8

    My favorite book, Tom! Thanks! Iamblichus is a giant of pagan theology .

  • @ChildOfFreyr
    @ChildOfFreyr 4 дня назад +9

    I love these book reviews. I wish there were more book reviews and book recommendations videos. Thank You so much.

  • @blooeagle5118
    @blooeagle5118 2 дня назад +1

    Synchronicities always pop up as I begin the reinvigorate my religious and philosophical studies. I was just watching an interview with Gregory Shaw the other day and started reading "On the Mysteries" a week before that. Keep doing your good work, Tom. Wæs Hæl

  • @Hroc
    @Hroc 3 дня назад +3

    Really interesting to hear about the idea of practicing in a way that is proper to one’s own soul, I’d not encountered this before.

  • @SputnikRX
    @SputnikRX 3 дня назад +3

    Not really a Germanic heathen, but learning about each European tradition, or any tradition really helps me understand my own via comparison. Plus it's just interesting to learn about in general.

  • @liquidoxygen819
    @liquidoxygen819 4 дня назад +5

    Wow! This looks like it'll be good. Thank you so much for doing these, Tom! You bless us!

  • @LazarusRemains
    @LazarusRemains 4 дня назад +9

    Isn't it interesting that the Greco-Roman world had spiritual schools very much like their Eastern Indo-European cousins in India and their spiritual descendants in the Far East.

  • @skiveman
    @skiveman 3 дня назад +3

    I am clear of painkillers at this point in time but my first impressions of the opening was...jazz. Even your voice had a kind of jazzy overtone.....nice.

  • @stover14
    @stover14 4 дня назад +8

    The tapestry behind you is beautiful, is it for sale somewhere?

    • @jivetalk
      @jivetalk  4 дня назад +6

      it is a batik print from Skye batiks

  • @antonyreyn
    @antonyreyn 4 дня назад +3

    I've got the Urgy to watch Survive the Jive in the afternoons
    Wodinaz Weraz from the Mercians

  • @Noeaskr
    @Noeaskr 4 дня назад +4

    Curious if you’ve read Taliesin’s Map or watched some of the videos he makes on RUclips. He has some very interesting ideas on the Germanic cosmogony. Buri being licked from ice, Ymir made from venom, the source that sent the heat and tuisto being an earth born god actually makes sense and directly ties Odin to Rudra.
    His work isn’t perfect. Couple of places where I’ve seen a lack of full research and his book has lots of grammatical errors but the ideas have been very interesting to me. His videos seem to go more into depth ironically.

    • @jivetalk
      @jivetalk  3 дня назад +2

      I own the book but haven’t read it yet

    • @CharlesWorthington-pt2vu
      @CharlesWorthington-pt2vu 3 дня назад +2

      Taliesin's Map is largely an analysis of Welsh and Irish mythology while comparing Vedic, Greek and Germanic mythology. His book deciphers the mysterious figures in the medieval Irish and Welsh literature, proving them to be not only gods, but also having one to one equivalents in nearly all the Indo-European branches.
      Buri and Tuisto are the equivalents of Prajapati, yet he doesn't go over this in his book as that topic wasn't really written in his book, only at the very end of it. He does mention that Savitr is the Prajapati of the world and that his myth mimics Prajapati. Yet, he goes over this a lot more in his RUclips videos and these topics will be in his upcoming second publication, Breoghan's Tower.
      There's a large bibliography at the end of his book and his theories are solid.
      Germanic mythology and paganism are cool, but no one seems to care about Celtic mythology and paganism. Which is why his book, Taliesin's Map is a great start to truly understand the Celtic gods.

    • @Noeaskr
      @Noeaskr 3 дня назад +2

      @@CharlesWorthington-pt2vu yup I know I have it/reading it. Recently came across his channel and have binged a lot of it. Just curious what Tom’s take would be.
      Surtr = “that one”
      Ymir = cosmic egg/Dyaus Pita
      Buri = Brahman/Axis Mundi (Heimdallr IMO)
      Borr = Buri’s passion (Manaz)
      Odin = Rudra/Cronos/Finn

  • @jamesblobb7115
    @jamesblobb7115 4 дня назад +3

    Would be interesting to hear you go more in detail about the Platonic doctrines you disagree with some time. Either alone or perhaps with Aarvoll?

    • @Jtbrahh
      @Jtbrahh 4 дня назад +5

      A jive deep dive on platonism/neoplatonism would be a banger

    • @jivetalk
      @jivetalk  3 дня назад +2

      I did talk with Aarvoll

  • @MasterPoucksBestMan
    @MasterPoucksBestMan 3 дня назад +2

    The way I think of the multiplicity of gods is that there are many gods, but only so many. I am one person, but my mother and my boss experience me differently, not because I am two different people but because *they* are, and I am a real individual and they are both real individuals. Likewise, there is only one sun, which is not the moon or the earth or the sea or love or conflict, but also the experience of the sun differs among different cultures precisely *because* they are different cultures, not because the sun has more than one consciousness (more than one sun deity).

    • @SputnikRX
      @SputnikRX 3 дня назад +2

      I came to this same conclusion about the nature of different divine personalities on my own. I even use the same metaphor. I'm happy to see this understanding is so self-evident that many others come to it as well.

  • @clintonhaws8984
    @clintonhaws8984 3 дня назад +1

    Well done!

  • @ryanorionwotanson4568
    @ryanorionwotanson4568 4 дня назад +4

    100th like. Great book

  • @Treetalker
    @Treetalker 3 дня назад

    Really enjoyed this review Tom. Given the perfect nature of the Gods most Neoplatonists worship, would a re-telling of the Germanic myths in light of this ancient critique (such as that of Xenophanes) be a worthy pursuit? Thanks.

  • @catoelder4696
    @catoelder4696 4 дня назад +2

    Awesome

  • @liquidoxygen819
    @liquidoxygen819 3 дня назад +1

    Regarding impurity of certain types of matter, it's interesting that Buddhism looks at everything as pure and with a Buddha Nature; everywhere is a Pure Land. It is only through samsaric delusion that you cause yourself to suffer in such places. I don't accept such doctrines myself, but it is an interesting answer to the challenge posed by some that you mention at 1:24:20
    Also, while I think it's true that any God can manifest in anything They want, They manifest in what They do, because those are exactly the substances They want! Going out of your way to make sure the materials are right I believe demonstrates piety before the Gods as you are refusing to be flippant and demanding They come to you on your terms.

  • @carmichaelree
    @carmichaelree 9 часов назад

    Aki Cederberg's Holy Europe next??

  • @bosmans45
    @bosmans45 4 дня назад +2

    Are you aware of Dr. Edward Butler's works? He is a scholar of the platonic philosophy and theology of polytheism, as well as a pagan practitioner.

    • @jivetalk
      @jivetalk  3 дня назад +4

      He was very rude to me

    • @bosmans45
      @bosmans45 3 дня назад +2

      @@jivetalk I suspected he would not be a pleasant person when I saw him fawning over some African voodoo tradition as a prime example of "Indigenous polytheism". Which is a shame because he has some good insights on the difference between the pagan view of the One and the Henads, and the monotheistic view of the One as some existing and all-encompassing divinity.

  • @dantheman9135
    @dantheman9135 3 дня назад +1

    Crush on Jivers

  • @GallumA
    @GallumA День назад

    I think it's quite important not to forget the previous iterations of the same tradition of theurgy and Platonism, which is to start with Socrates. and if you find that your view on it is contradicting the initial example of Socrates, then you are not doing Platonism.

  • @ryanorionwotanson4568
    @ryanorionwotanson4568 4 дня назад +2

    The origin of life denying gnosticism, which leads to modern world atheism and degen eracy is very telling. The circle k tribe right everyone?

    • @ntp5257
      @ntp5257 3 дня назад

      Atheism does not spring from Gnosticism.

    • @kipkipper-lg9vl
      @kipkipper-lg9vl 3 дня назад

      and degeneracy is not a function of atheism

  • @richardkettering9532
    @richardkettering9532 2 дня назад

    To me that was as good as hearing it from the horses mouth

  • @peterszeug308
    @peterszeug308 4 дня назад +4

    First 😂

  • @fiddleback1568
    @fiddleback1568 3 дня назад

    So Christianity uses Blood of Christ, which is correct.