JIVE TALK: Runes & Magic w/
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- Опубликовано: 12 окт 2024
- Scott Shell received his Ph.D. in Germanic Linguistics from the University of California at Berkeley. The emphasis of his study has been on historical linguistics, runology and mythology. He runs a RUclips channel called @Scott T. Shell (Continental Germanic Heathenry) which focuses on the pagan religion of the Old Saxons. Tonight he will discuss some of his findings in regards to the magical uses of runes by Germanic pagans on the continent and Scandinavia.
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Thanks for having me, Tom!
Subscribed
This was a good stream. Thanks for talking about the meaning of alugod.
You mentioned the Finnish runo, which indeed means poem / song. In the Finnish sources spells are also not "cast", but "sung". Very interesting talk all in all!
Exactly! Thanks for elaborating!
I wish I would have caught this in time.
What an excellent guest. Great podcast as always Tom
freakn fascinating! Home run yall! Thats good in Oregonian!
OMG THIS IS AMAZING GROUNDBREAKING STREAM!!!! MINDBLOWN
This was really interesting. Thanks, guys.
Dr Patrick McCafferty & Prof. Mike Baille published an interesting book called 'The Celtic Gods: Comets in Irish Mythology' which considers symbols such as the Brigid Cross and Triskele. Other North Europeans - Germans and Scandinavians - may have seen these same or similar objects in the sky 🙂
Very glad for this interview! Thank you both for this!
please share it
Thanks for the Jive Talks, Tom!
This is a great interview. Thanks to STJ for introducing me to the work of Scott Shell.
When Scott says that "all these books arguing about what magic 'is', and you realize that it just means something we don't understand" he's pretty clearly talking about it from an academic standpoint. Magical literature does argue about models of magic (energy, information, chaos, etc), but they are very much in agreement that what they are arguing about is the mechanism behind a shared phenomenon. Since academic papers don't bother to ever look at the shared phenomenon they are a further step removed from the argument and just hand-wave it all as "stuff we don't understand", hence why emotional venting, asociality and sympathetic practices got lumped together by Scott a few paragraphs later.
Interesting point
For sure! I was talking strictly about the state of academia and runology when it comes to discussing magic.
I didn't get to catch this live, but I enjoyed this video. Lots of great information.
In Cuchulain's encounter with the Morrigan and her silent male companion, when Cuchulain demands their names, they provide absurd long descriptions instead, which angers him. The reason is the same as you have described in relation to Germanic traditions. They do not want Cuchulain to gain any power over them by providing their true names.
very interesting. In modern occultic. esoteric and hermetic magic, I understand that knowing the name of a demon is essential for binding it or exorcising it
Nice very interesting.
Fascinating subject. Are there any new publications on Rune origins (Po Valley/ Greek Black Sea). Or Runic connections to Amber?
I recall Jackson Crawford spoke of a theory they are of lepontic origin
Amber as in the mineral? Germanic folklore speaks of the mythical glass mountains, which were likely made of Amber. Jurgen Spanuth posited the mythical substance called Orichalcum was really amber.
Wonderful. Do more. Yes. Look at the _wild hunt._
ruclips.net/video/luyXW_kXlGs/видео.html
I wonder if Scott was at Berkeley when Crawford was there, it must be a small world.
Magic is simply knowing what is required to create what is desired.
From a 72 yr old initiate since 1976
The old kalevala style of runo in finnish is always alliterative. Thought id point that out. And ancient finnish magic was performed by singing of these alliterative "runo".
I reckon there's Germanic influence!
@@jivetalk whats interesting to me is that "runo" were not written down but were passed as oral tradition until 19th century. Perhaps there was also a similar lost "oral rune" magic tradition that predate runic scripts.
Abrakadabra does mean something, it was nonsense to the later users of it. It comes from aramaic and means "i create as i speak". But since aramaic written in the hebrew script uses the same letter "beit" as representing B and a singular V this is why it later turned into abrakedabra.
There is no consensus on the meaning afaik. I thought the most likely one was a latin origin relating to the alphabet
Throughout Celtic and Germanic myth, the salmon is the fish of wisdom. Perhaps this ties in with your lost story of Wodanaz, the notorious seeker of wisdom
Wod-r
I had considered insular celtic influence also, but i am not aware of salmon representing wisdom in germanic myth. There is a clear paralel of when Sigurd sucks his thumb after killing the dragon to when Fionn sucks his thumb after cooking the salmon. In Germanic and other IE cultures the dragon is sometimes referred to as a fish.
A great discussion, gutted I missed it. Pity there was no discussion of bind runes, but obviously you can't do everything.
maybe next time
What's your opinion of the northman? I think it's a good horror movie.
great movie. I am doing a video on it
@@jivetalk I agree. Cant wait to hear your thoughts!
@18:10 Demons btfo'd by the Polish language.
Psychiatric Runes and Pharmaceutical Magic, Busters..
@30:33 Jackson Crawford?
Doesn't Woden mean "mad one"? Sounds like the "crazy one."
not a great translation. Wod = a specific king of frenzy/madness, yes, but not the general meaning of our word "mad"
Runes were a foreign invention introduced to Scandinavia from South. So it's weird to include it in Indoeuropean culture as something rooted in it which was originally like Veda and Illiad passed verbally. And that's this culture essence.
As so it's in no way sacred, has no connection to deities and introduces a foreign layer to original core corrupting it.
Indoeuropean beliefs were written in many places with different alphabets. No common symbolics there.
I dislike this fakery the same way i dislike pretending that Bible speaks about original truth while being proven to be partially rip off of earlier myths.
The only part that I could accept as having any resemblance in runes with Indoeuropean core in Scandinavia is counting and numerology only.
Because Scandinavia took that alphabet and shuffled counterparts of letter sounds but it fully saved original order of 0-10 values of this foreign alphabet.
But we also should keep in mind they counted a different weird way too... not in deci way, so it also is not original adapted translation of older system.
i don't think you listened properly - the word rune refers to something which was sacred before writing existed. rune means 'esoteric secret'
But Scott is clearly talking about runes as in the futhark-derived letters
make a video comparing magic in different indo european traditions (runic magic, theurgy, and tantra)
Already did with borja
@@jivetalk is it on jive talks or the main channel?
@@jhitjit old channel. it is a jive talk tho
I would just note that around the 17:00 ish minute mark, that there are a LOT of bracteates with runes that are completely unintelligible. I mean there are even conventions such as mirror runes and the like that we don’t understand. Examples could include of the bracteate Overhornbaek III-C (which I have in my notes as DK IK 140) or Overhornbaek II-A. Just as examples. Seems like a very large amount of these often understudied inscriptions are perhaps “magical”?
the ALU runes are often mirrored not only on bracteates but also on at least one Anglo Saxon urn
@@jivetalk they certainly are. Let me see if I can drudge up some really good examples of inscriptions with these mirror runes, but yes, that Anglo-Saxon ALU mirror rune set is very interesting, reminds me of the ALU cypher/bindrune on the Karlino Ring from Poland
To be totally honest I’m not sure if it’s surprising that people assumed a magical association with runes is a bunch of hooey, since it’s become such a new age trend that isn’t from an authentic tradition. What we can understand about runes in the Norse sources also doesn’t necessarily carry over to the Saxons or other Germanic people, or at least we cannot confirm it by evidence.