As a proud owner of framework, Fedora is the distro work out of box (fingerprint reader etc). The only thing I hope to have is an OLED screen option, and they can make more powerful one with dedicated GPU some point down the line.
@@MentalOutlaw I can confirm it can, the USB-C ports are all thunderbolt 4. I don't think they have their TB certification yet though so that's why it's not advertised.
Too bad majority of consoomers care about muh “performance” over repairability so they will continue to waste their parent’s money on shitty overpriced e-wastes like iMacs.
@@Bossanova. I have actually seen a lot of non-fossy/non-right-to-repair RUclipsrs doing videos about how much of a big deal a repairable laptop like framework is.
@@Bossanova. A huge amount of computer related youtubers are praising framework like linux and Luis . They've been consistently selling out with their product. It's also had the unintended effect of almost all of their customers being for open source and fixability which helps push the company in the right direction. Anyway It doesn't matter if the 'majority' of people don't want the laptop because the people who want privacy and performance will view framework as the best option.
The problem with these products is always that: - It doesn't sell enough => - The company goes under - You can't get replacement parts because the company was the only one making them It's only truly open if they open source the hardware so anyone can make parts and sell them.
I sold laptops at Micro Center for years and I agree about the Thinkpads. In fact the business grade laptops from most brands are very solid. The HP Elitebook, Dell Latitude's, Lenovo Thinkpads, etc.
I can definitely testify to this. I'm using a pre-owned HP Elitebook built in 2012, and it runs smooth as butter, (with minor repairs of course, like the battery).
i still use a hp elitebook 8460p from 2011 (i guess) and boi this thing is still running. Also the dock is really great! I don't care about it being proprietary if it is a great product, and if you can use other docks as well
All of the Elitebooks I have interacted with have been very nice. Latitudes are very hit and miss, especially recently. Some of the laptops that Dell is slapping the latitude branding on these days are absolute crap and are no different than the $300 black Friday special computers you see at Walmart and Best Buy. I have really liked almost all of the Lenovo Thinkpads that I have gotten my hands on, but they all have a critical flaw that makes them a no-buy for me. That flaw being their non-standard keyboard layout. I have no idea why Levovo has decided to swap the fn and control keys' locations on the entire Thinkpad line but it drives me insane every time I have to configure one. If they would change the Thinkpad keyboards to the standard keyboard layout that every other laptop (including the other models that they themselves build) use then the the Thinkpads would easily be my favorite of the three.
i use a Probook 640G1 and i can confirm it's great. plus hp provides service manuals on their website so that's great too. although newer hp laptops have taken a downturn when it comes to build quality,mine still looks modern and is built like a tank!!
Okay, an option to buy a brand new laptop without windows OS, ram, storage and wifi card because I already have all of this is amazing. This should be and option everywhere, it would greatly reduce e-waste production and save money
@@v0xl I mean you have at least pay a few bucks from some keyseller, to get that watermark away. I paid only once for a full Win7 licence, when it got released back then there were no keysellers. Normies will always pay the full price or at least the OEM price because they doesn't know better. Every techie can use Linux in the first place.
@@batpoolzilla3200 It's not. It's pay to still have your data stolen. I have a legitimate Windows 7 key that works on Windows 10/11 and it still has the same bloat and spyware as if I didn't have it.
Another proud owner of a Framework laptop. Running Linux on it naturally, with NixOS as my distro of choice. That aside, the Framework hardware is a serious piece of kit. The fact that the motherboard can be *taken out* and it runs just fine is far and beyond what most laptops can claim today. I can also easily admit that the ability to swap out the M.2 drive has been a life saver for when the operating system messes up. I am fully satisfied with my purchase, and the ability to repair and upgrade the laptop throughout the future is a great prospect.
@@daiweessian1019 Yes(-ish), you can't replace the CPU by itself however the main board is isolated to the point where you can switch it out with an upgraded one. Bonus: The old main board still works as a standalone computer.
@@bidenisasnake9932 Entirely my fault, something went wrong when trying to make some system changes, and it corrupted a necessary file. Zero issues sense, however. (The fact that you can swap out the SSD is still great for doing stuff like isolating Windows on a separate SSD, though.)
Would love to see a follow-up video on this with those Chinese manufacturers designing and producing upgraded motherboards for those classic Thinkpads.
@@j.k.4479 CCP != Chinese Citizens. They have no control as individuals to do anything. These companies are run by people like your parents. Don't tolerate CCP, but don't hate the citizens.
@@wongjowo9152 yes. Another option is the PINE64 Pinebook Pro with no IME at all. Framework does nothing for free software. They let the customer choose between Windows and no operating system. Thanks for nothing!
What's great from what I hear is that eGPUs apparently just work with the Framework laptop over it's USB C port, even if it's not exactly Thunderbolt "certified". Which means, even if there's a cost in terms of Thunderbolt inherently being bandwidth limited, you could absolutely use it for gaming or 3D heavy applications (like offline rendering in Blender/Maya, CAD, or Archvis).
thats awesome. External GPUs are something truely needed for laptops to cross the performance gap with desktops (and not be outrageously expensive / require space-age cooling) Some eGPU's also just act like a motherboard extension where you slot in a PC-size graphics card. (though it sounds like the thunderbolt is a specific eGPU from how you worded it)
The big downside over an internal GPU though is the enclosures are pretty large, and have their own power supply, from what I've seen. So you can only use the laptop for those tasks when you're in the spot you have the eGPU set up. Also GPUs are hella expensive right now. For me, the whole reason I switched to using a laptop instead of a desktop was to be able to work anywhere in the house, so its still not viable. I need a dedicated GPU in the machine, or an enclosure that can run on battery (its own or the laptop's) that can attach to the laptop. Really hoping they come up with something...
@@prw56 maybe a "docking" system that makes the entire thing thicker but could also include battery another or something, and offer more expansion options? Kind of like how you could hook up the Sega Genesis with the CD and 32x expansions?
Well, that's an absolute dream. Great to hear that they're going to Open Source the firmware. Can't wait to get my hands on one of those myself in the future.
I bought one for myself for Christmas. I run windows on it since I need that for work, but I love it. Happy to be supporting a company that cares about repairability.
I wouldv bought it, if they didnt try to make it look like a macbook clone. Ion wanna offend anyone, but macbooks are singlehandely the most generic looking ugly ass laptop humanely possible. Ima wait untill they get some newer different looking design.
@@honkhonk8009 i don't think they're MacBook clones, more close to one of the surface laptops but even then, it's not a bad design for their first attempt
If these big corporations actually cared about the "environment" they would be focusing on "reducing" instead of "recycling", but reducing is bad for business and bad for profit. We don't have unlimited resources but we sure act like we do, so we continue to waste large swaths of the earth's resources so we can keep producing products designed to fail to sell even more products designed to fail.
Old laptops are very upgradable depending on the brand and model. Some thinkpads and dell have a dock for adding ports although some laptops doesnt have that, some models have a replacable battery or upgradable CPU some even have upgradable GPU. Really miss those old days, now everything is e-waste...
I even got lucky with a cheap 2019 17inch HP laptop, while it took a bit of verification after finding it's sometimes vauge service manual, I was able to install 16 GB of RAM, and a 1TB NVME M.2 in addition to its 1TB HDD, it even has a swappable disk drive still which I'd like to swap for Blueray drive or possibly another SSD with an adapter. Sure, it's mostly plastic and it only has a Ryzen 2300u APU with Vega 6 graphics, but running Garuda Linux I'm still finding it heaps of fun to use and decently competent at some lite gaming and retro emulation, I'm actually enjoying using it as a test bed for Linux before transitioning my Desktop to Garuda linux too, with maybe a Windows 10 VM for any random tasks that still need it for now. Seeing a laptop that had a struggle running Windows, absolutely fly using Linux is surprisingly fun, it makes it a joy to use even if it isn't a beast of a system. Once Framework has AMD CPU/APU versions of the motherboard I look forward to putting one of their laptops together, and load it up with Linux as a smaller and even more reliable Laptop, after building my own desktop I can't resist the idea of assembling my own ideal little laptop!
Thanks to Chyna, a lot of the spare parts for older laptops can now be obtained very cheaply. Although the quality is a bit hit and miss, especially the keyboards.
This is just beautiful. Unfortunately I already purchased a new laptop a couple of years ago, but should I need one I will definitely check what framework has in store. Really hope this company thrives for many years, because the unfortunate reality of projects like these is that very often they either end up bankrupt or deviating from their initial goal. I guess running a business focused on user freedom just is not as profitable as one would like
In my opinion, it's a little expensive (at least in my local currency), but it definitely seems worth it. Indeed looking forward to see more machines like these in the future.
Well it is more expensive to make it modular than not making it modular. They also don't accept offers for various software (like anti virus) to be pre installed, which is also a way for many manufactures to save money on their laptops.
If you don't have much money that's reasonable, but there are poeple that pay even more for less features from other manufactures "ultrabooks". Nearly everywhere you will pay for broken products, regardless the price, or pay with data. Personally I would rather pay more but get a product that is worth it in return, which looks like it's the case here, even if I had to save up longer.
I like to think of it as an investment, the day something goes wrong with it or i have to upgrade my RAM, change the battery, upgrade storage etc. it wont cost me a whole new laptop.
Another thing is that they are supporting the creation of 3rd party expansion modules so we could end up seeing new expansion cards for more niche use cases
Oh no this just opens up the floodgates for all kinds of nonsense. See you in 2 years when someone makes one of those expansion things for driving a car via OBD2 connector
I say it like it's a bad thing out of satire. In seriousness that'd be super awesome to see, but yeah probably the actual gas pedal would be better to use than pressing the up arrow on your laptop with cruise control
The good thing about things like these is even if the profit margin is high or the cost is higher up frony it's cheaper than the alternative in the long run since you don't need to replace it as often
I’m an owner of a framework laptop myself and have been for a month, it’s absolutely AMAZING how simple and customizable this thing is. Yeah it’s a high price at first purchase but the self repair and ease is astonishing
I've loved this product since I first heard about it. If I needed a new laptop and could afford it, I'd get one. It's a great project and I can't wait to see what they do in the future
I have a framework and its pretty great. just knowing that any piece that breaks i can just order it and fix myself really puts my mind at ease. I just hope they make a ryzen version as right now they only use intel.
Agreed, once they have AMD hardware it'll be a easy sell for me for sure, especially with open firmware alongside being able to install Linux with no fuss. I'm already enjoying Garuda linux on a decently serviceable cheap HP laptop from 2019 that I fitted with 16 GB of RAM and a 1TB M.2 alongside its 1TB HDD, its "Ryzen 2300u APU with Vega 6 Graphics" isn't exactly a beast but it runs Linux way better than Windows 10, even does decent with some games and can run retro Emulation all the way up to the Wii, Even with a way more powerful Ryzen 2600X / 32GB Ram / Sapphire 5700XT Nitro+ / multi TB storage stuffed desktop I built myself I still find myself enjoying that little laptop alot, I'll probably be installing Garuda Linux on the desktop after having so much fun on the Laptop and just keep a Windows 10 VM around for occasional use, cant care less about Windows 11 after having delt with the mess of Windows 8, Windows 11 just looks like more of that same mess. Really looking forward to building a Framework Laptop sometime as a even more reliable and powerful little option
I got the DIY edition with the i5 processor. I installed 32GB (2 x 16) and a 1TB m.2 (PCI-E 3.0 b/c it's fine). Unfortunately I received a defective mainboard, and also had to DIY a board swap. When I contacted their support about my graphics issue, I actually dealt with Raj Patel himself (CEO & cool guy). I'm really hoping Framework will be a success, and I feel like they're doing everything so well that if they can't make this work, I don't know who could. I was able to buy the laptop in exactly the format I wanted (no OS, no memory, no storage), and when I did have a problem the company gave excellent support. I don't know when I'll be in the market for another laptop, but I recommend Framework to anybody who will listen. 🍻👍
he told me my 13 month old laptop might need a new mainboard cause it's not turning on! I got the first one that came out. didn't use it for a while and power wont come on.
Thinkpads are the best solution on the laptop side of things besides Framework and the PPC Notebook project, but a Raptor OpenPOWER desktop (I'd go for the Blackbird, the only advantages the Talos II has are in the realm of server stuff and heavy duty AI development) is the best solution on the desktop side of things. Their prebuilts are expensive, but you can build an 8c32t matx desktop yourself that doesn't have a single blob and doesn't need to clumsily suppress a hardware backdoor for just about as much as an equivalent amd64 machine, and less than half the price, maybe even less than a quarter of the price, of an equivalent Mac Pro.
I recently bought my own framework (the DIY edition), it was pretty annoying to ship to me since they don't ship overseas yet (I live in new zealand), but I ended up sending it to a family member in the US and they sent it to me. I can definitely recommend the framework laptop. The keyboard feels great, the trackpad is nice, and large, and it worked fine with linux (I got my brother to install arch on it, I don't really know how to do it) although I'm still not that good at using arch. The only complaint I have really is that the battery life isn't that great - still definitely usable, but not great - and putting the antennae on the wifi card was a pain, and felt like I was gonna break it. Also it gets a little bit warm (but it's a thin laptop, so that's kidna to be expected). It's not broken, and was eventually installed just fine, so that's good. I really like the overall build quality, it just feels really nice in your hands. The screen is nice (though I'm not a screen connoisseur so I don't have much to compare it to), I really like the tall aspect ratio, and it's similar to 1440p (1440p is 2560 x 1440, and the framework is 2256 by 1504, keep in mind, again, that the screen is 3:2, not 16:9). The expansion cards are a little tight to get out once they're in, but that's not really a bad thing, and it's pretty easy to take them out with the help of the included screwdriver (No I didn't stab it with the screwdriver, there's a wedge thing (idk how to explain it, search up framework screwdriver and you'll see) on the other end), but that will probably loosen over time if I take them in and out lots (they won't slide out from being loose, though, they're locked in with a button, not just from sliding in). I appreciate some of the minor details in it, like how there's only 1 type of screw head in it, just different (color coded) lengths. And get this, there's an extra screw of every length screwed into it on the screen side in case you lose one or something. On the topic of screws, the ones you need to unscrew to open the laptop are captive, so they won't fall out when you flip it over to open it (you unscrew it from the bottom and then open the lid and take the top case thing (not the screen, like the keyboard and trackpad and stuff) off from the top). This is getting really long and more and more unreadable, due to not planning this at all, so I'll just wrap this up with one last thing. I think it's worth it to get a framework, not only because it's a good laptop, but to support framework as a company, and right to repair as a whole. If framework is successful with this, other companies will follow suit, which is most definitely a win for us consumers.
sheeesh. Literally my only gripe about the laptop was that the firmware wasn't open source, and even then it didn't really matter to me since basically all firmware is anyways. Unbelievable based company that gives me hope for the future. I'm looking foward to owning my first fully, 100%, no catch libre device. TFW a laptop gives me more freedom than my all AMD desktop
If I ever choose to get a laptop again, I am almost certainly going with framework, especially if Coreboot is working on it. I've wanted to try Coreboot/Libreboot for quite a while, but because they only support such a few amount of devices I haven't had the chance.
If I hadn't got a new laptop last year I would definitely be getting one of these. The modular IO (especially the way they've implimented it), the fact you can buy every part, and their dedication to opensourcing the firmware are all HUGE plusses in my book. My laptop's already had the screen die once, it's aparantly not easily replacable, and has some other hardware weirdness, so if it dies after the warantee's gone I may have to shell out for one of these, it's a lot but it does look worth it in the long run.
thanks for showing me this mental outlaw. ive been on the hunt for a some hardware that isn't 500 years old that i can use for linux and or other uses and it looks like you helped me solve my problem. a little bit on the pricey side but hey, a business needs to make money to improve. regardless, cheers 👍
I remember receiving one as a gift from my uncle at 5th grade when he upgraded, which for me not only was kinda insane for my age, but also a very sentimental gift that ended up being with me for more than five years afterwards. I took it everywhere with me, even learned my way with Linux through distro dualbooting with it, replacing the hard drive with an SSD eventually... I still have it somewhere. If only that made-to-reliably-last mentality could have been a reality with modern electronics... Makes me feel kinda old all of a sudden lol
OK. Because this is important. As I'm sure you all have had to endure, driver lockdown from hardware manufacturers is what DRIVES this. Were I to go the ThinkPad route, for the moment, what atmosphere should I be looking at? Meaning what level. I love my LinuxMint build (using it now), and would like to have 8 cores and 64gig of ram. GREAT WORK KENNY!!! THANK YOU!!!
@@Rudxain RISC-V is definitely not going to be pushed by framework. That architecture still has a long way to go, and framework is absolutely not going to have anywhere near enough money to create a whole line of good, cheap, and functional CPUs based on it. Sadly it'll probably be up to bigger players like Intel or AMD to implement RISC-V in a way that will meaningfully impact the world. But hopefully we get to use it someday, in some form.
Back when I had a real job I invested a wild chunk into a similar venture. Hope this initiative works out, sound great and all but they need more people like you and Louis Rossman to push the advantages to a larger population...
I emailed these guys and asked "are you gonna come out with a rugged model like the ToughBook?" Their answer gave me hope. Simply "right now we are a bit too small to be thinking of that, however it is going on the whiteboard of ideas because we see potential in that market sector." As an auto mechanic, needing a laptop is sometimes necessary. If they made a rugged model, they could easily sell to police, ems, medical, construction and possibly military. I tell everyone who asks for ideas on a new laptop, "check out Framework." I don't have one currently since I have a very powerful gaming PC and the job provides laptops to use on cars, but if I started more tuning on my own car, I would love to have a laptop that was easy to repair.
Amazing Video. I hope that modular and non-proprietary hardware becomes incorporated in the future in all areas of technology. P.S. Congrats on your channel blowing up and good luck in the future!
If you buy an iPhone know what iPhone does it's on all your fault. There are options people. I've had this PocoPhone F1 for 200$ when it came out and it's still working perfectly thanks to lineage os. And I see very little reason to change it (except maybe emulating PS2/wii games at hd). The solution starts from you my guy. Also thanks for the OnePlus 7 pro video was very helpful.
But isn't PocoPhone owned by Xiaomi and unlocking the bootloader from a Xiaomi phone is unnecessary hard? It's really BS to unlock the bootloader for my Redmi Note 4.
The problem becomes obvious when the vendor locks you out of your own device or even bricks your device with e-fuses and parts serialization. These anti-features are not advertised and the vast majority of consumers do not know about them. It's essentially just fraud
Well I got the poco x3 pro and the emulation is great. Also I am going to change the os to a custom one. I am sure apple doesn't allows this but ios is pretty good os. Android is good but miui sucks.
@@fawzanfawzi9993 you have to wait 7 days before unlocking but apart from that, Xiaomi is the best manufacturer when it comes to releasing kernel source of their devices and keeping it updated
i really wish there was just a standard format for these and chunkier modular laptops like the Thinkpads but you can hot swap the drives, gpu and whatever else you want, and everything is a standardised format that any other platform can re-use if they want
I now own two of these. When thinking about some of the same issues some are talking about in the comments, I decided: -- regarding parts, it is not a fair comparison. Most laptops have a limited lifespan of parts support, -- So, I can buy some extra parts now so extend the lifespan of the laptop, and/or canabalize older ones if this company goes under. -- I can work on this with one screwdriver. No breaking things when trying to replace things like a monitor -- this feels and runs like a modern laptop, if you care about that. Once you use the newer screens (this is 100% RGB, so I can do for internet photo editing) -- if we don't make decisions to support companies like this as a decision in the real world (not, I'lll buy big company stuff until the perfect company comes along). So, for a modern laptop that is repairable and upgradable, within the set of avialable options, this is a great option.
I would love to see the makers of this create an AMD version or a 15" version. Maybe even an OLED screen option down the line. Very excited to see where this goes.
Framework is awesome. I haven't bought one yet, but the next laptop I will buy will be a Framework. They are supposedly planning on making replacement motherboards in the future, so that if you want to upgrade the CPU, you can still keep the majority of other parts you already have and put the new motherboard into the existing chassis. I hope they can deliver on this!
If there were actual choices for parts instead of just the pre-made list I'd be more interested. The fact that they can be taken apart and repaired is certainly a nice bonus, though it would be nice if there were gpu available with them.
@@honkhonk8009 eGPU docks are super expensive and bottleneck rtx cards to a point where it makes no sense. Better to just have the gpu inside the laptop.
I was thinking of buying a new laptop but didn't need more junks. Thanks for this video, I'm definitely ordering one immediately - I love the idea of modular laptops!
Watching this on my i5 framework and on endeavouros and it works fantastic. bar none the best laptop experience I've ever had. Plus I will happily upgrade my motherboard through them next generation, especially if they add the option for risc-v or arm based processors in the future. Because unlike most upgrades in tech, I can still fully use the motherboard on its own as a dedicated server or any number other other functions, all outside of the chassis and separate from the rest of the hardware. And with all the fun I have been having using proxmox and containers to set up local cloud services like nextcloud and jellyfin to move away from streaming and cloud services going forwards where possible, I'm sure there will be plenty I can use that hardware. One of the few chances in tech to own hardware that in the worst case you can repair yourself if they went under thanks to the community support it has, and best case will save you hundreds on hardware that is perfectly function that you can reuse if/when you need to upgrade to a more powerful processor in the future;
I got one, it's a great little laptop. Not without its faults, it's by no means perfect. And I've had some issues since I've had it but thanks to a) a warranty and b) the fact as it's 100 percent serviceable means it was literally a 5 minute repair, swapped out the motherboard. Their support is really quite good too. I hope this company succeeds in their goals and of course stays around for the foreseeable future. And I highly recommend it to anyone considering it. They have a good thing going.
I remember back a when I was young I looked up "Custom Built laptop" or something along those lines and being disappointed at the little I did find. Seeing this all these years later reminded me of those days little me would have loved to see this and would for once in his life save up and hopefully buy one of these modular laptops. I'm currently not looking for a new laptop as I'm happy with my current hardware but I'll consider a few years down the road specifically with by then they have system to have GPUs
As a PhD in social and political theory, I loved that you basically started with a critique of modern consumer goods within a capitalist framework. This is one of the only reviews that actually 'gets' the full ideology of framework, which is not anti-capitalist by any means, and could even be accused of green washing, but framework is trying shift some of the dominant trends while understanding the broader constraints.
Framework is awesome. I read they were working on new CPU's so I'm hoping they release some good AMD chips with integrated GPU's or ARM or something I can game on a bit. If you need a laptop framework is the way to go.
YOU FINALLY MADE A VIDEO ON MY FAVORITE LAPTOP! i found a video about this thing back in the beginning of 2021 when i was starting to get into linux. i really wanted a laptop but i didnt want it to become obsolete trash and be in a landfill in three years. when i found it i was astonished, and i waited 5 months to preorder and i finally got it in august. been using fedora and arch on it since and i love the experience. my fingerprint sensor broke and i got a replacement in a couple of days instead of weeks… i hope thinkpad users move over to framework
This looks nice ,but they definately need a way to get rid of iME (Or use some RISC-V cpu in the future) and the lack of cpu replacability. I'll get this later on, probably :D
I have a framework laptop. It's the nicest laptop I've ever owned, and I'm excited about the prospect of it lasting longer than the t440p I have in my home office.. My last Asus (super high end!) laptop, I broke the HDMI port from using it everyday for 2-3 months. This would have been a 5 second fix with my framework. I wouldnt hesitate to recommend this machine to any one I know. I bought the DIY version. I installed my own RAM, the wifi card, and the NVMe SSD myself. I booted retail-licensed Windows, updated the drivers, and updated the BIOS myself. The entire experience so far has been flawless. You can buy them ready out of the box, but I wanted the DIY version so I could add my own subcomponents. The expansion cards are great. I like being able to move my USB-c port so I can charge from one or the other side on my computer.
I own one and it is great. The build quality is great. Really does feel like a premium ultrabook. The 2:3 screen is one of my favorite thing, this aspect ratio should be in everything tbh.
Best thing about the open EC firmware is you can mod it to drive a ThinkPad keyboard. One can imagine a Framework motherboard sitting on a carrier board that adapts it to a T480 case and has an LTC1760 chip so you can reverse-Y-split the two batteries into the Framework's one battery connector.
I had no much fait to these product because if the company brokes all the modules wont be available any more or would be really expensive and rare, but the fact that these parts now are open source make an incredible game changing. I'll be glad to see insane mods from comunity
Not only that but for people with some electronics design skills it would be possible to create new modules, as far i remember they supply the dimensions required and the interface is USB which is easily available.(well, not at this moment) For example it would be possible for me to make a 2/4 USB 3 hub for it, probably with sale price of around 30€. Not sure if there is space to fit 2 side by side without size increase, to use the hub IC completely(4 ports) being creative with them would be required.
All this planned obsolescence stuff reminds of the movie, "The Brave Little Toaster". Hopefully, Framework gets a ton of success, and modularity and repairability returns, at least to some extent, to the market. One can dream at least.
Dell also put out a concept in the same vein, entirely replaceable and recyclable parts. User serviceable electronics are just a no-brainer both from a user-perspective and an environmental-perspective. Also it's pretty genius how the swappable IO seems to amount to USB-C dongles that are flush with your laptop case when inside instead of being a bunch of cords hanging off your device. Really shows how awesome and flexible modern USB standards are.
Those little adapter things just look kinda like dongles anyway, but just without short-length cables and with a standardized size that integrate into the laptop body. Honestly, it's one of those super clever "Why didn't I think of that?" things that just make sense. Bravo to them. I've zero need for a laptop right now but if I was I'd definitely be looking into one of these.
They did think about that. They're keeping it as far from realization as they can. Freedom of choice and competition are the capitalist' worst enemies.
@@HanSolo__ Uhhh .. freedom of choice and competition are features of capitalism, not bugs. Locking people into ecosystems, making it impossible for other people to repair products, using legislation to squeeze out smaller businesses and/or just buying them out (creating monopolies, duopolies, cartels, etc), are anti-choice and anti-competitive .. and thus, anti-capitalist.
when I can get enough money I will certainly buy a framework laptop. but for now I am happy with the t420 I have been using up until this point. this thing is a trooper and has not let me down.
These expansion cards are driven by USB 4, which is asically an open implementation of thunderbolt 3. These aren't certified for thunderbolt, but even plugging an external GPU should work.
Another thing that’s worth mentioning is IBM’s POWER architecture is completely open source from the ground up. A company called Raptor sells high end POWER systems, and while they are extremely pricey (IIRC even the cheapest option is around 4 grand) they are among the most secure conventional computing hardware you can purchase new.
When were you born? I'm 22 and I remember when smartphones first came out. They were really cool at the time, but now I'm at the point where I'd rather go back to cellphones with full keyboards and flip phones. I had a Samsung cellphone with a slide out keyboard when I was a child and it was pretty cool.
I _love_ what they're doing, and really hope they succeed. What's really holding me back from buying one is it being 13" (my current laptop is 14") and not having an Alder Lake CPU
I'm gonna look into it once my current laptop stops working. Its pretty new so that won't happen for a while. I really hope this project takes off. Looks promising.
I just bought one (AMD) Even if it turns out to be a mistake, I'd rather give them a chance than pump another Laptop company that doesn't give a *** about you full of money.
I will be getting one asap. Even if they don't instigate the paradigm shift I dream of, I want to be a part of this and support the idea as much as I can. Thanks for the heads-up. I have yet to meet a video of yours that hasn't been useful.
I love the idea of companies that are trying to make tech more intuitive and overall better for the consumer in every way the can, but isn't a 1000 bucks a bit to much for just an i5?
You always pay more for stuff from startups or small system integrators, when compared to an off-the-shelf solution from major brands. If you value the ability to swap components or have the I/O ports you want at $0, it comes off pricier than a major brand bulk build. They very likely have to charge more to have a sustainable profit margin.
I have been using my Framework for a few months now and am very pleased with it. I hope they are able to bring more modular, repairable, Linux and freedom friendly devices to market.
I really want one of these, but it doesn't look powerful enough. My 2.5 year old Gazelle is showing it's age, and seems like it still outperforms framework's top level offering. I really hope we get good ryzen options soon. Also a GPU. I Want a dedicated GPU
You can hook up an external gpu its been tested. The ports are all thunderbolt 4 though its not certified so it doesnt get advertised. If you want something modular with a gpu, then battery wont be great anyway. There are some good options in bios for people who are plugged into an outlet most of the time anyway
Im a proud owner of a framework, I currently use windows on mine as i need it for school (its just more convenient for its job + i run a sort of debloat so im not too worried), but once im out i plan to go full linux. btw any suggestions for what linux i should run, those of you who also own a framework
Buyer Beware! I bought one of these. The mother board failed on day one. That was three weeks ago and it has been two weeks since I have last heard from Framework. The customer service is beyond horrible.
Can you tell me more about your experience? I've spoken with them about potentially becoming an authorized repair provider for their equipment, and we have not really worked anything out. There is any way in which they're repair services are lacking, I'd like to know what specifically went on, because it is possible since I have the email and phone number of the CEO, to do something about it. I have no financial investment in this company, but ideologically, obviously, I have an interest in their success. Thank you
The one incident i heard on the framework forum about bad customer support seemed to be debunked due to a faulty email on the other hand ive heard of people having issues and getting emails from the ceo asking about the problem to fix it. Customer support seems okay
Looks great, but on their interchangable IO why not have more space used? For instance, the USB C port add-on could hold like three, but they only put in one.
Honestly, it's probably more of a power issue. You don't wanna overload a single chip and fry it rather than just have 2 separate ones that they can handle
Good question. It seems that the internal-side USB-C connector is actually running at USB4 speeds in a not-currently-certified-so-technically-can't-call-it-Thunderbolt-mode, so it should be able to support heftier I/O options than they actually offer.
Open-source hardware unfotunately doesn't mean the chips aren't backdoored, in fact you could argue more likely backdoored by glowies and/or CCP as customers self-identify as being security-focused. I recently bought a VisionFive V1 SoC ($150 raspberry-pi-like computer that has RISC-V CPU) and i'm looking forward to testing power consumption and speed, but i'm not going to assume that because the CPU instruction set is open source (which really just means documented) that the chip isn't going to spy on me.
@@cannaroe1213 That argument would also apply to open-source software, which it does not. If you are into open-source, like framework, they would choose open instruction and open schematic chips.
@@vladlu6362 I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. I wish it did but it doesn't. Being a RISC-V chip doesn't mean the schematic is open source. RISC-V is the name for what instructions the CPU can handle. Intel/AMD processors for example run x86. x86 is documented, but there are also operations that these CPUs can perform that are not documented (people have reverse engineered some of them though, particularly since the discovery of the intel management engine). Anyway all this has nothing to do with what the silicon fabricator makes, we're just talking about the instruction set, which is essentially a protocol. It's not a physical thing. The creation of physical chips that adheres to the instruction set protocol is done by a very small number of companies, all of which without exception (except for maybe Rockchip) work in partnership with their nation's intelligence and security services. They can (and do) add undisclosed circuits to those chips to undermine encryption, monitor network access, access any program's memory directly, etc etc etc. RISC-V allows anybody, even you and me, to start building CPUs that support RISC-V without having to pay anyone a licence - but i'm still legally allowed to backdoor it. Can't be helped.
Huge thumbs up for putting one of Scotty Kilmer's thumbnails in your video :D Gotta love this guy and his awesome videos about cars. His whole persona is funny, his videos are funny, his thumbnails and titles are clickbait, but you always end up with some good lessons in there, You just always learn something valuable from him! he shares great knowledge and his various cautionary tales & stories are always very informative & funny! His YT channel about about cars is somewhat addictive :D
![Gucci Mane & Sexyy Red - You Don't Love Me [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j7IBqyFKT4c/mqdefault.jpg)
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
As a proud owner of framework, Fedora is the distro work out of box (fingerprint reader etc). The only thing I hope to have is an OLED screen option, and they can make more powerful one with dedicated GPU some point down the line.
I wonder if it could be connected to an external GPU, at least you'll have that GPU power when you're at a desk.
@@MentalOutlaw I can confirm it can, the USB-C ports are all thunderbolt 4. I don't think they have their TB certification yet though so that's why it's not advertised.
Im Planning on getting one of those soon, would you recommend it?
imagine if they make a gpu you can swap out easily they would gain so many more buyers
@@SurealG This is not that easy. The only one I know about is the rare model of Alienware with a modified desktop GPU.
I hope they're very successful.
This looks like an amazing product.
As far as I can see, it's going absolutely outstandingly well
Too bad majority of consoomers care about muh “performance” over repairability so they will continue to waste their parent’s money on shitty overpriced e-wastes like iMacs.
@@Bossanova. performace and mac are not correlated
@@Bossanova. I have actually seen a lot of non-fossy/non-right-to-repair RUclipsrs doing videos about how much of a big deal a repairable laptop like framework is.
@@Bossanova. A huge amount of computer related youtubers are praising framework like linux and Luis . They've been consistently selling out with their product. It's also had the unintended effect of almost all of their customers being for open source and fixability which helps push the company in the right direction. Anyway It doesn't matter if the 'majority' of people don't want the laptop because the people who want privacy and performance will view framework as the best option.
The problem with these products is always that:
- It doesn't sell enough =>
- The company goes under
- You can't get replacement parts because the company was the only one making them
It's only truly open if they open source the hardware so anyone can make parts and sell them.
True, but quality will vary with the parts between manufacturers.
Its definitely good that linus tech tips invested 250,000 in them and are helping them get some industry connections and funding then
@@clairifedverified2513 this. The fact that he also made it known more also should help.
@@clairifedverified2513 Isn't Linus mega rich? Why not invest more than that?
EDIT: Okay y'all can stop directing messages at me now, I get it now.
@@j.k.4479 Definitely not short on money but I doubt hes rich enough just to throw millions of dollars at ideas he likes.
I sold laptops at Micro Center for years and I agree about the Thinkpads. In fact the business grade laptops from most brands are very solid. The HP Elitebook, Dell Latitude's, Lenovo Thinkpads, etc.
I can definitely testify to this. I'm using a pre-owned HP Elitebook built in 2012, and it runs smooth as butter, (with minor repairs of course, like the battery).
Using a Dell Latitude from 2010 with a i7 quad core, 8go of ram and a new 500go ssd and the laptop feels awesome. Keyboard is super good too
i still use a hp elitebook 8460p from 2011 (i guess) and boi this thing is still running. Also the dock is really great! I don't care about it being proprietary if it is a great product, and if you can use other docks as well
All of the Elitebooks I have interacted with have been very nice. Latitudes are very hit and miss, especially recently. Some of the laptops that Dell is slapping the latitude branding on these days are absolute crap and are no different than the $300 black Friday special computers you see at Walmart and Best Buy. I have really liked almost all of the Lenovo Thinkpads that I have gotten my hands on, but they all have a critical flaw that makes them a no-buy for me. That flaw being their non-standard keyboard layout. I have no idea why Levovo has decided to swap the fn and control keys' locations on the entire Thinkpad line but it drives me insane every time I have to configure one. If they would change the Thinkpad keyboards to the standard keyboard layout that every other laptop (including the other models that they themselves build) use then the the Thinkpads would easily be my favorite of the three.
i use a Probook 640G1 and i can confirm it's great. plus hp provides service manuals on their website so that's great too.
although newer hp laptops have taken a downturn when it comes to build quality,mine still looks modern and is built like a tank!!
Okay, an option to buy a brand new laptop without windows OS, ram, storage and wifi card because I already have all of this is amazing. This should be and option everywhere, it would greatly reduce e-waste production and save money
Windows OS is free, in exchsnge of your personal data.
@@batpoolzilla3200 no it is not.
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6 you seriously pay for it? i don't know anyone who does that
@@v0xl I mean you have at least pay a few bucks from some keyseller, to get that watermark away. I paid only once for a full Win7 licence, when it got released back then there were no keysellers.
Normies will always pay the full price or at least the OEM price because they doesn't know better. Every techie can use Linux in the first place.
@@batpoolzilla3200 It's not. It's pay to still have your data stolen. I have a legitimate Windows 7 key that works on Windows 10/11 and it still has the same bloat and spyware as if I didn't have it.
Another proud owner of a Framework laptop. Running Linux on it naturally, with NixOS as my distro of choice. That aside, the Framework hardware is a serious piece of kit. The fact that the motherboard can be *taken out* and it runs just fine is far and beyond what most laptops can claim today. I can also easily admit that the ability to swap out the M.2 drive has been a life saver for when the operating system messes up. I am fully satisfied with my purchase, and the ability to repair and upgrade the laptop throughout the future is a great prospect.
oh another NixOS user
Is the cpu replaceable?
OS messes up??
@@daiweessian1019 Yes(-ish), you can't replace the CPU by itself however the main board is isolated to the point where you can switch it out with an upgraded one. Bonus: The old main board still works as a standalone computer.
@@bidenisasnake9932 Entirely my fault, something went wrong when trying to make some system changes, and it corrupted a necessary file. Zero issues sense, however. (The fact that you can swap out the SSD is still great for doing stuff like isolating Windows on a separate SSD, though.)
Would love to see a follow-up video on this with those Chinese manufacturers designing and producing upgraded motherboards for those classic Thinkpads.
The chinese in shenzen always create some amazing weird stuff
I'd LOVE to see that. Imagine the latest storage and RISC/AMD CPUs on a classic thinkpad...🤔
CCP is cringe.
I would love to have that on my old thinkpad X200T chassis. That thing's solidly built and super modular.
@@j.k.4479 CCP != Chinese Citizens. They have no control as individuals to do anything. These companies are run by people like your parents. Don't tolerate CCP, but don't hate the citizens.
lets go finally an open source company that's actually got a decent grounding in the industry
@Not Convinced Are you referring to framework? They have 11th gen intel cpus..
@Not Convinced yes, or your best bet is Librem 14 because they manage to partially disable the Intel ME and freeing their Embedded Controller
@@wongjowo9152 yes. Another option is the PINE64 Pinebook Pro with no IME at all.
Framework does nothing for free software. They let the customer choose between Windows and no operating system. Thanks for nothing!
@@maxsievers8251 MacOS is actually a terrible OS.
@@10054 The PINE64 Pinebook Pro doesn't run MacOS. Same with the Librem notebooks by Purism. They come with GNU pre-installed.
What's great from what I hear is that eGPUs apparently just work with the Framework laptop over it's USB C port, even if it's not exactly Thunderbolt "certified".
Which means, even if there's a cost in terms of Thunderbolt inherently being bandwidth limited, you could absolutely use it for gaming or 3D heavy applications (like offline rendering in Blender/Maya, CAD, or Archvis).
thats awesome. External GPUs are something truely needed for laptops to cross the performance gap with desktops (and not be outrageously expensive / require space-age cooling)
Some eGPU's also just act like a motherboard extension where you slot in a PC-size graphics card.
(though it sounds like the thunderbolt is a specific eGPU from how you worded it)
The big downside over an internal GPU though is the enclosures are pretty large, and have their own power supply, from what I've seen. So you can only use the laptop for those tasks when you're in the spot you have the eGPU set up. Also GPUs are hella expensive right now.
For me, the whole reason I switched to using a laptop instead of a desktop was to be able to work anywhere in the house, so its still not viable.
I need a dedicated GPU in the machine, or an enclosure that can run on battery (its own or the laptop's) that can attach to the laptop. Really hoping they come up with something...
@@prw56 maybe a "docking" system that makes the entire thing thicker but could also include battery another or something, and offer more expansion options? Kind of like how you could hook up the Sega Genesis with the CD and 32x expansions?
They're not Thunderbolt certified... yet.
It's called "USB 3.x", not "Thunderbolt". Please get out with the proprietary Apple BS marketing terms and speak normally.
Well, that's an absolute dream. Great to hear that they're going to Open Source the firmware. Can't wait to get my hands on one of those myself in the future.
Firmware for what?
This is misleading video to the point it is actually ridiculous. It is an intel laptop, same as any other.
I bought one for myself for Christmas. I run windows on it since I need that for work, but I love it. Happy to be supporting a company that cares about repairability.
I wouldv bought it, if they didnt try to make it look like a macbook clone. Ion wanna offend anyone, but macbooks are singlehandely the most generic looking ugly ass laptop humanely possible.
Ima wait untill they get some newer different looking design.
@@honkhonk8009 isn't that the design if every notebook not just mac
@@honkhonk8009 i don't think they're MacBook clones, more close to one of the surface laptops but even then, it's not a bad design for their first attempt
"BuT tHaT's ThE dIrEcTiOn ThE iNdUsTrY iS gOiNg"
THIS is the direction the industry should be going
What do you mean? A non repairable future is the direction where the industry should be going?
@@technomatic6285 She or he means the exact opposite of that. By "THIS" she or he means the laptop and company in the video.
@@j.k.4479 Sorry, I misinterpreted it. The quote was said by Kenny and OP sarcasmified it so I thought he was commenting on Kenny's quote
If these big corporations actually cared about the "environment" they would be focusing on "reducing" instead of "recycling", but reducing is bad for business and bad for profit. We don't have unlimited resources but we sure act like we do, so we continue to waste large swaths of the earth's resources so we can keep producing products designed to fail to sell even more products designed to fail.
@@Dean..... Not just reducing but also longevity, but that's also bad for profit if their products weren't engineered with a finite shelf life.
Old laptops are very upgradable depending on the brand and model. Some thinkpads and dell have a dock for adding ports although some laptops doesnt have that, some models have a replacable battery or upgradable CPU some even have upgradable GPU. Really miss those old days, now everything is e-waste...
I even got lucky with a cheap 2019 17inch HP laptop, while it took a bit of verification after finding it's sometimes vauge service manual, I was able to install 16 GB of RAM, and a 1TB NVME M.2 in addition to its 1TB HDD, it even has a swappable disk drive still which I'd like to swap for Blueray drive or possibly another SSD with an adapter.
Sure, it's mostly plastic and it only has a Ryzen 2300u APU with Vega 6 graphics, but running Garuda Linux I'm still finding it heaps of fun to use and decently competent at some lite gaming and retro emulation, I'm actually enjoying using it as a test bed for Linux before transitioning my Desktop to Garuda linux too, with maybe a Windows 10 VM for any random tasks that still need it for now.
Seeing a laptop that had a struggle running Windows, absolutely fly using Linux is surprisingly fun, it makes it a joy to use even if it isn't a beast of a system.
Once Framework has AMD CPU/APU versions of the motherboard I look forward to putting one of their laptops together, and load it up with Linux as a smaller and even more reliable Laptop, after building my own desktop I can't resist the idea of assembling my own ideal little laptop!
Thanks to Chyna, a lot of the spare parts for older laptops can now be obtained very cheaply. Although the quality is a bit hit and miss, especially the keyboards.
Do you have a few examples?
This is just beautiful. Unfortunately I already purchased a new laptop a couple of years ago, but should I need one I will definitely check what framework has in store. Really hope this company thrives for many years, because the unfortunate reality of projects like these is that very often they either end up bankrupt or deviating from their initial goal. I guess running a business focused on user freedom just is not as profitable as one would like
Maybe you might be interested in MNT Reform laptop as well.
In my opinion, it's a little expensive (at least in my local currency), but it definitely seems worth it. Indeed looking forward to see more machines like these in the future.
Ye, it's a thousand+ bucks, but ig it's also the start of their brand so they don't have the economy of scale yet
Well it is more expensive to make it modular than not making it modular.
They also don't accept offers for various software (like anti virus) to be pre installed, which is also a way for many manufactures to save money on their laptops.
If you don't have much money that's reasonable, but there are poeple that pay even more for less features from other manufactures "ultrabooks". Nearly everywhere you will pay for broken products, regardless the price, or pay with data. Personally I would rather pay more but get a product that is worth it in return, which looks like it's the case here, even if I had to save up longer.
I like to think of it as an investment, the day something goes wrong with it or i have to upgrade my RAM, change the battery, upgrade storage etc. it wont cost me a whole new laptop.
@@TNEngie maybe if you are lucky you can also get new motherboard with CPU if that is also needed to be changed
Hey your videos make me feel cool. You're doing a great job. Keep up the grind king.
Another thing is that they are supporting the creation of 3rd party expansion modules so we could end up seeing new expansion cards for more niche use cases
I can 100% see someone doing an RS232 for CNC machinists.
Oh no this just opens up the floodgates for all kinds of nonsense.
See you in 2 years when someone makes one of those expansion things for driving a car via OBD2 connector
@@Jack-vo7yf i wanna see that, sounds really cool, even if potentially pretty dangerous
@@Jack-vo7yf Why are you implying this is a bad thing?
I say it like it's a bad thing out of satire. In seriousness that'd be super awesome to see, but yeah probably the actual gas pedal would be better to use than pressing the up arrow on your laptop with cruise control
The good thing about things like these is even if the profit margin is high or the cost is higher up frony it's cheaper than the alternative in the long run since you don't need to replace it as often
I’m an owner of a framework laptop myself and have been for a month, it’s absolutely AMAZING how simple and customizable this thing is. Yeah it’s a high price at first purchase but the self repair and ease is astonishing
How does it taste?
I've loved this product since I first heard about it. If I needed a new laptop and could afford it, I'd get one. It's a great project and I can't wait to see what they do in the future
I have a framework and its pretty great. just knowing that any piece that breaks i can just order it and fix myself really puts my mind at ease.
I just hope they make a ryzen version as right now they only use intel.
Agreed, once they have AMD hardware it'll be a easy sell for me for sure, especially with open firmware alongside being able to install Linux with no fuss.
I'm already enjoying Garuda linux on a decently serviceable cheap HP laptop from 2019 that I fitted with 16 GB of RAM and a 1TB M.2 alongside its 1TB HDD, its "Ryzen 2300u APU with Vega 6 Graphics" isn't exactly a beast but it runs Linux way better than Windows 10, even does decent with some games and can run retro Emulation all the way up to the Wii,
Even with a way more powerful Ryzen 2600X / 32GB Ram / Sapphire 5700XT Nitro+ / multi TB storage stuffed desktop I built myself I still find myself enjoying that little laptop alot, I'll probably be installing Garuda Linux on the desktop after having so much fun on the Laptop and just keep a Windows 10 VM around for occasional use, cant care less about Windows 11 after having delt with the mess of Windows 8, Windows 11 just looks like more of that same mess.
Really looking forward to building a Framework Laptop sometime as a even more reliable and powerful little option
Yeah, the only reason I never considered them is because they only use Intel...
They have AMD available now ❤
I got the DIY edition with the i5 processor. I installed 32GB (2 x 16) and a 1TB m.2 (PCI-E 3.0 b/c it's fine). Unfortunately I received a defective mainboard, and also had to DIY a board swap. When I contacted their support about my graphics issue, I actually dealt with Raj Patel himself (CEO & cool guy). I'm really hoping Framework will be a success, and I feel like they're doing everything so well that if they can't make this work, I don't know who could. I was able to buy the laptop in exactly the format I wanted (no OS, no memory, no storage), and when I did have a problem the company gave excellent support. I don't know when I'll be in the market for another laptop, but I recommend Framework to anybody who will listen. 🍻👍
he told me my 13 month old laptop might need a new mainboard cause it's not turning on! I got the first one that came out. didn't use it for a while and power wont come on.
That's so cool you talked to Raj Patel
Thinkpads are the best solution on the laptop side of things besides Framework and the PPC Notebook project, but a Raptor OpenPOWER desktop (I'd go for the Blackbird, the only advantages the Talos II has are in the realm of server stuff and heavy duty AI development) is the best solution on the desktop side of things. Their prebuilts are expensive, but you can build an 8c32t matx desktop yourself that doesn't have a single blob and doesn't need to clumsily suppress a hardware backdoor for just about as much as an equivalent amd64 machine, and less than half the price, maybe even less than a quarter of the price, of an equivalent Mac Pro.
I recently bought my own framework (the DIY edition), it was pretty annoying to ship to me since they don't ship overseas yet (I live in new zealand), but I ended up sending it to a family member in the US and they sent it to me. I can definitely recommend the framework laptop. The keyboard feels great, the trackpad is nice, and large, and it worked fine with linux (I got my brother to install arch on it, I don't really know how to do it) although I'm still not that good at using arch. The only complaint I have really is that the battery life isn't that great - still definitely usable, but not great - and putting the antennae on the wifi card was a pain, and felt like I was gonna break it. Also it gets a little bit warm (but it's a thin laptop, so that's kidna to be expected). It's not broken, and was eventually installed just fine, so that's good. I really like the overall build quality, it just feels really nice in your hands. The screen is nice (though I'm not a screen connoisseur so I don't have much to compare it to), I really like the tall aspect ratio, and it's similar to 1440p (1440p is 2560 x 1440, and the framework is 2256 by 1504, keep in mind, again, that the screen is 3:2, not 16:9). The expansion cards are a little tight to get out once they're in, but that's not really a bad thing, and it's pretty easy to take them out with the help of the included screwdriver (No I didn't stab it with the screwdriver, there's a wedge thing (idk how to explain it, search up framework screwdriver and you'll see) on the other end), but that will probably loosen over time if I take them in and out lots (they won't slide out from being loose, though, they're locked in with a button, not just from sliding in). I appreciate some of the minor details in it, like how there's only 1 type of screw head in it, just different (color coded) lengths. And get this, there's an extra screw of every length screwed into it on the screen side in case you lose one or something. On the topic of screws, the ones you need to unscrew to open the laptop are captive, so they won't fall out when you flip it over to open it (you unscrew it from the bottom and then open the lid and take the top case thing (not the screen, like the keyboard and trackpad and stuff) off from the top).
This is getting really long and more and more unreadable, due to not planning this at all, so I'll just wrap this up with one last thing. I think it's worth it to get a framework, not only because it's a good laptop, but to support framework as a company, and right to repair as a whole. If framework is successful with this, other companies will follow suit, which is most definitely a win for us consumers.
Excellent, excellent write-up 👏
@@lateral1385 I try my best ;)
sheeesh. Literally my only gripe about the laptop was that the firmware wasn't open source, and even then it didn't really matter to me since basically all firmware is anyways. Unbelievable based company that gives me hope for the future. I'm looking foward to owning my first fully, 100%, no catch libre device. TFW a laptop gives me more freedom than my all AMD desktop
Good news. Right now it is possible with MNT Reform Laptop, a 100% libre hardware.
No official Linux support on their part
you can get truly open hardware AND firmware, if you want it. Even in a laptop. They suck donkey balls though, so there are trade offs.
If I ever choose to get a laptop again, I am almost certainly going with framework, especially if Coreboot is working on it. I've wanted to try Coreboot/Libreboot for quite a while, but because they only support such a few amount of devices I haven't had the chance.
If I hadn't got a new laptop last year I would definitely be getting one of these. The modular IO (especially the way they've implimented it), the fact you can buy every part, and their dedication to opensourcing the firmware are all HUGE plusses in my book. My laptop's already had the screen die once, it's aparantly not easily replacable, and has some other hardware weirdness, so if it dies after the warantee's gone I may have to shell out for one of these, it's a lot but it does look worth it in the long run.
What laptop did you get? Curious so I know what to tell people to avoid.
@@theairaccumulator7144 a 15 YO thinkpad maybe
Love the open source of firmware..but no AMD option. Intel is a big reason we're at this point. They don't need more support.
Amd does the same with PSP
@@jeremieh5009 maybe but not as long... They're evil but not as much and can hopefully be influenced. Intel is decades of screwing people.
@@xephael3485 fair point
thanks for showing me this mental outlaw. ive been on the hunt for a some hardware that isn't 500 years old that i can use for linux and or other uses and it looks like you helped me solve my problem. a little bit on the pricey side but hey, a business needs to make money to improve. regardless, cheers 👍
Also, if it ends up outliving what you would have bought, this can end up being a good longer term investment.
Can attest to old ThinkPads, they're godly. Especially if you chuck an ssd in it
yes, they're literally a laptop for a life time, slap linux mint in it and you got a device that's never will be broken unless you intend it to
How do they run osrs? I was thinking of picking one up as a mobile unix runecape rig
I remember receiving one as a gift from my uncle at 5th grade when he upgraded, which for me not only was kinda insane for my age, but also a very sentimental gift that ended up being with me for more than five years afterwards. I took it everywhere with me, even learned my way with Linux through distro dualbooting with it, replacing the hard drive with an SSD eventually... I still have it somewhere. If only that made-to-reliably-last mentality could have been a reality with modern electronics... Makes me feel kinda old all of a sudden lol
OK. Because this is important. As I'm sure you all have had to endure, driver lockdown from hardware manufacturers is what DRIVES this. Were I to go the ThinkPad route, for the moment, what atmosphere should I be looking at? Meaning what level. I love my LinuxMint build (using it now), and would like to have 8 cores and 64gig of ram. GREAT WORK KENNY!!! THANK YOU!!!
I use one myself. You can reflash a cracked bios on the T420 and even upgrade the CPU I also put a IPS display in mine
I'm waiting for when they release a non-shintel cpu. Should be an interesting future and they're doing well, kudos.
Hahahahahha shintel XDD
That and also pick up system76’s design of doing as much as they can to disable the management engine inside that glowing cpu
RISC-V is a perfect solution for this. However AMD and/or ARM would be more reliable in the short-term, RISC-V is only for the far future
@@Rudxain RISC-V is definitely not going to be pushed by framework. That architecture still has a long way to go, and framework is absolutely not going to have anywhere near enough money to create a whole line of good, cheap, and functional CPUs based on it.
Sadly it'll probably be up to bigger players like Intel or AMD to implement RISC-V in a way that will meaningfully impact the world. But hopefully we get to use it someday, in some form.
@@Rudxain Good luck. Almost everything is ARMv8 or AMD64 now. Don't expect developers to just simply jump ship.
Back when I had a real job I invested a wild chunk into a similar venture. Hope this initiative works out, sound great and all but they need more people like you and Louis Rossman to push the advantages to a larger population...
I emailed these guys and asked "are you gonna come out with a rugged model like the ToughBook?" Their answer gave me hope. Simply "right now we are a bit too small to be thinking of that, however it is going on the whiteboard of ideas because we see potential in that market sector." As an auto mechanic, needing a laptop is sometimes necessary. If they made a rugged model, they could easily sell to police, ems, medical, construction and possibly military. I tell everyone who asks for ideas on a new laptop, "check out Framework." I don't have one currently since I have a very powerful gaming PC and the job provides laptops to use on cars, but if I started more tuning on my own car, I would love to have a laptop that was easy to repair.
This modularity is amazing, I cannot wait till I get my new Framework Combine Harvester, very niceee
Amazing Video. I hope that modular and non-proprietary hardware becomes incorporated in the future in all areas of technology.
P.S. Congrats on your channel blowing up and good luck in the future!
If you buy an iPhone know what iPhone does it's on all your fault. There are options people. I've had this PocoPhone F1 for 200$ when it came out and it's still working perfectly thanks to lineage os. And I see very little reason to change it (except maybe emulating PS2/wii games at hd). The solution starts from you my guy. Also thanks for the OnePlus 7 pro video was very helpful.
But isn't PocoPhone owned by Xiaomi and unlocking the bootloader from a Xiaomi phone is unnecessary hard? It's really BS to unlock the bootloader for my Redmi Note 4.
The problem becomes obvious when the vendor locks you out of your own device or even bricks your device with e-fuses and parts serialization.
These anti-features are not advertised and the vast majority of consumers do not know about them. It's essentially just fraud
If you buy an iPhone know what iPhone does it's on all your fault?
Well I got the poco x3 pro and the emulation is great. Also I am going to change the os to a custom one. I am sure apple doesn't allows this but ios is pretty good os. Android is good but miui sucks.
@@fawzanfawzi9993 you have to wait 7 days before unlocking but apart from that, Xiaomi is the best manufacturer when it comes to releasing kernel source of their devices and keeping it updated
More vids like this! I'm new to the channel and would love to see more everyday consumer items geared towards those who care about this sorta stuff!
i really wish there was just a standard format for these and chunkier modular laptops like the Thinkpads but you can hot swap the drives, gpu and whatever else you want, and everything is a standardised format that any other platform can re-use if they want
Like a tiny pc
There is. Check rugged notebooks like Panasonic Toughbook. It's extremely modular.
Like a barebone? Maybe a NUC?
My Framework arrived a couple weeks ago, I really like it.
I now own two of these. When thinking about some of the same issues some are talking about in the comments, I decided:
-- regarding parts, it is not a fair comparison. Most laptops have a limited lifespan of parts support,
-- So, I can buy some extra parts now so extend the lifespan of the laptop, and/or canabalize older ones if this company goes under.
-- I can work on this with one screwdriver. No breaking things when trying to replace things like a monitor
-- this feels and runs like a modern laptop, if you care about that. Once you use the newer screens (this is 100% RGB, so I can do for internet photo editing)
-- if we don't make decisions to support companies like this as a decision in the real world (not, I'lll buy big company stuff until the perfect company comes along).
So, for a modern laptop that is repairable and upgradable, within the set of avialable options, this is a great option.
I would love to see the makers of this create an AMD version or a 15" version. Maybe even an OLED screen option down the line. Very excited to see where this goes.
AMD ✅️
16" ✅️
I know what my next laptop is going to be now! Thank you for the video and information
Framework is awesome. I haven't bought one yet, but the next laptop I will buy will be a Framework. They are supposedly planning on making replacement motherboards in the future, so that if you want to upgrade the CPU, you can still keep the majority of other parts you already have and put the new motherboard into the existing chassis. I hope they can deliver on this!
It is over 5 months I am waiting for them to ship that to my country....
As my computer 5 months ago... I brought a raspberry pi as my main computer
I am following the Framework since a few months and I really hope they success. I would love to get one one day… The product looks absolutely great 👍
If there were actual choices for parts instead of just the pre-made list I'd be more interested. The fact that they can be taken apart and repaired is certainly a nice bonus, though it would be nice if there were gpu available with them.
I'm sure all of this will come if they don't go bankrupt that is.
You can apparently use your shit as a dock, and get a seperate GPU connected through usb-c
@@honkhonk8009 eGPU docks are super expensive and bottleneck rtx cards to a point where it makes no sense. Better to just have the gpu inside the laptop.
I was thinking of buying a new laptop but didn't need more junks. Thanks for this video, I'm definitely ordering one immediately - I love the idea of modular laptops!
Watching this on my i5 framework and on endeavouros and it works fantastic. bar none the best laptop experience I've ever had. Plus I will happily upgrade my motherboard through them next generation, especially if they add the option for risc-v or arm based processors in the future. Because unlike most upgrades in tech, I can still fully use the motherboard on its own as a dedicated server or any number other other functions, all outside of the chassis and separate from the rest of the hardware. And with all the fun I have been having using proxmox and containers to set up local cloud services like nextcloud and jellyfin to move away from streaming and cloud services going forwards where possible, I'm sure there will be plenty I can use that hardware. One of the few chances in tech to own hardware that in the worst case you can repair yourself if they went under thanks to the community support it has, and best case will save you hundreds on hardware that is perfectly function that you can reuse if/when you need to upgrade to a more powerful processor in the future;
This is awesome. Man I’m gonna get one just to support this effort. I’m sick of my m1.
0:35 Ah, yes! The legendary Psycho-Billie Cadillac! Truly, you are a man of culture!
I got one, it's a great little laptop. Not without its faults, it's by no means perfect. And I've had some issues since I've had it but thanks to a) a warranty and b) the fact as it's 100 percent serviceable means it was literally a 5 minute repair, swapped out the motherboard. Their support is really quite good too. I hope this company succeeds in their goals and of course stays around for the foreseeable future. And I highly recommend it to anyone considering it. They have a good thing going.
I remember back a when I was young I looked up "Custom Built laptop" or something along those lines and being disappointed at the little I did find. Seeing this all these years later reminded me of those days little me would have loved to see this and would for once in his life save up and hopefully buy one of these modular laptops. I'm currently not looking for a new laptop as I'm happy with my current hardware but I'll consider a few years down the road specifically with by then they have system to have GPUs
As a PhD in social and political theory, I loved that you basically started with a critique of modern consumer goods within a capitalist framework. This is one of the only reviews that actually 'gets' the full ideology of framework, which is not anti-capitalist by any means, and could even be accused of green washing, but framework is trying shift some of the dominant trends while understanding the broader constraints.
Framework is awesome. I read they were working on new CPU's so I'm hoping they release some good AMD chips with integrated GPU's or ARM or something I can game on a bit. If you need a laptop framework is the way to go.
YOU FINALLY MADE A VIDEO ON MY FAVORITE LAPTOP! i found a video about this thing back in the beginning of 2021 when i was starting to get into linux. i really wanted a laptop but i didnt want it to become obsolete trash and be in a landfill in three years. when i found it i was astonished, and i waited 5 months to preorder and i finally got it in august. been using fedora and arch on it since and i love the experience. my fingerprint sensor broke and i got a replacement in a couple of days instead of weeks… i hope thinkpad users move over to framework
This looks nice ,but they definately need a way to get rid of iME (Or use some RISC-V cpu in the future) and the lack of cpu replacability. I'll get this later on, probably :D
I have a framework laptop. It's the nicest laptop I've ever owned, and I'm excited about the prospect of it lasting longer than the t440p I have in my home office.. My last Asus (super high end!) laptop, I broke the HDMI port from using it everyday for 2-3 months. This would have been a 5 second fix with my framework. I wouldnt hesitate to recommend this machine to any one I know. I bought the DIY version. I installed my own RAM, the wifi card, and the NVMe SSD myself. I booted retail-licensed Windows, updated the drivers, and updated the BIOS myself. The entire experience so far has been flawless. You can buy them ready out of the box, but I wanted the DIY version so I could add my own subcomponents. The expansion cards are great. I like being able to move my USB-c port so I can charge from one or the other side on my computer.
I own one and it is great. The build quality is great. Really does feel like a premium ultrabook. The 2:3 screen is one of my favorite thing, this aspect ratio should be in everything tbh.
Best thing about the open EC firmware is you can mod it to drive a ThinkPad keyboard. One can imagine a Framework motherboard sitting on a carrier board that adapts it to a T480 case and has an LTC1760 chip so you can reverse-Y-split the two batteries into the Framework's one battery connector.
I love the concept of these but I'm guessing there's still the whole thing of Intel's ME being a back door into these things.
I believe they try to remove it, check their websites maybe
thats why theyre trying to get them corebooted, while it wont remove it fully itll neuter it
@@HaxxorElite i dont know that much about core and librebooting so i would recommend looking it up yourself tbh
True. If they used a QoriQ T2080 they wouldn't have that issue.
@@lepidotos chinese? isnt that much worse
A modular gaming laptop in the future could be so aweosme! i wish them a very successful future!
I had no much fait to these product because if the company brokes all the modules wont be available any more or would be really expensive and rare, but the fact that these parts now are open source make an incredible game changing. I'll be glad to see insane mods from comunity
Not only that but for people with some electronics design skills it would be possible to create new modules, as far i remember they supply the dimensions required and the interface is USB which is easily available.(well, not at this moment)
For example it would be possible for me to make a 2/4 USB 3 hub for it, probably with sale price of around 30€. Not sure if there is space to fit 2 side by side without size increase, to use the hub IC completely(4 ports) being creative with them would be required.
This is awesome bro. Thanks for sharing!
All this planned obsolescence stuff reminds of the movie, "The Brave Little Toaster". Hopefully, Framework gets a ton of success, and modularity and repairability returns, at least to some extent, to the market. One can dream at least.
I heard of them years ago. Thanks for reminding me that they exist. They will probably be my next laptop.
Dell also put out a concept in the same vein, entirely replaceable and recyclable parts. User serviceable electronics are just a no-brainer both from a user-perspective and an environmental-perspective.
Also it's pretty genius how the swappable IO seems to amount to USB-C dongles that are flush with your laptop case when inside instead of being a bunch of cords hanging off your device. Really shows how awesome and flexible modern USB standards are.
I've been running an old thinkpad I bought 2nd hand years ago and it still works like a charm
Those little adapter things just look kinda like dongles anyway, but just without short-length cables and with a standardized size that integrate into the laptop body. Honestly, it's one of those super clever "Why didn't I think of that?" things that just make sense. Bravo to them. I've zero need for a laptop right now but if I was I'd definitely be looking into one of these.
They did think about that. They're keeping it as far from realization as they can. Freedom of choice and competition are the capitalist' worst enemies.
@@HanSolo__ Uhhh .. freedom of choice and competition are features of capitalism, not bugs.
Locking people into ecosystems, making it impossible for other people to repair products, using legislation to squeeze out smaller businesses and/or just buying them out (creating monopolies, duopolies, cartels, etc), are anti-choice and anti-competitive .. and thus, anti-capitalist.
when I can get enough money I will certainly buy a framework laptop. but for now I am happy with the t420 I have been using up until this point. this thing is a trooper and has not let me down.
Let’s see Paul Allen’s laptop.
Dang, can’t believe I haven’t heard of this yet, appreciate you sharing with us thank you!
These expansion cards are driven by USB 4, which is asically an open implementation of thunderbolt 3. These aren't certified for thunderbolt, but even plugging an external GPU should work.
Wasn’t usb 4 half the bandwidth of Thunderbolt 3?
Another thing that’s worth mentioning is IBM’s POWER architecture is completely open source from the ground up. A company called Raptor sells high end POWER systems, and while they are extremely pricey (IIRC even the cheapest option is around 4 grand) they are among the most secure conventional computing hardware you can purchase new.
I wish I were born early enough to see the birth of smartphones, the old ones look so cool
When were you born? I'm 22 and I remember when smartphones first came out. They were really cool at the time, but now I'm at the point where I'd rather go back to cellphones with full keyboards and flip phones. I had a Samsung cellphone with a slide out keyboard when I was a child and it was pretty cool.
@@comicsans1689 2004 baby
I _love_ what they're doing, and really hope they succeed. What's really holding me back from buying one is it being 13" (my current laptop is 14") and not having an Alder Lake CPU
This is similar to the Fairphone, which works on the same principle, but green. You can open it up, buy a replacement part and fix it yourself.
I'm gonna look into it once my current laptop stops working. Its pretty new so that won't happen for a while. I really hope this project takes off. Looks promising.
I just bought one (AMD)
Even if it turns out to be a mistake, I'd rather give them a chance than pump another Laptop company that doesn't give a *** about you full of money.
How is it?
I will be getting one asap. Even if they don't instigate the paradigm shift I dream of, I want to be a part of this and support the idea as much as I can. Thanks for the heads-up. I have yet to meet a video of yours that hasn't been useful.
I love the idea of companies that are trying to make tech more intuitive and overall better for the consumer in every way the can, but isn't a 1000 bucks a bit to much for just an i5?
You always pay more for stuff from startups or small system integrators, when compared to an off-the-shelf solution from major brands.
If you value the ability to swap components or have the I/O ports you want at $0, it comes off pricier than a major brand bulk build.
They very likely have to charge more to have a sustainable profit margin.
Looks awesome. Such businesses must be supported.
did you do a vid on microsoft pluton? we're moving from intel/amd glowie backdoors to megacorp backdoors at the hardware level
I have been using my Framework for a few months now and am very pleased with it. I hope they are able to bring more modular, repairable, Linux and freedom friendly devices to market.
I really want one of these, but it doesn't look powerful enough. My 2.5 year old Gazelle is showing it's age, and seems like it still outperforms framework's top level offering. I really hope we get good ryzen options soon. Also a GPU. I Want a dedicated GPU
You can hook up an external gpu its been tested. The ports are all thunderbolt 4 though its not certified so it doesnt get advertised. If you want something modular with a gpu, then battery wont be great anyway. There are some good options in bios for people who are plugged into an outlet most of the time anyway
Wow. I think I know what laptop I'm gonna get when I graduate. This is a pretty sick laptop.
Wish I could just install regular Linux on my smartphone, plug it to a monitor and use it as any regular desktop PC.
Thanks for the video MO!
Im a proud owner of a framework, I currently use windows on mine as i need it for school (its just more convenient for its job + i run a sort of debloat so im not too worried), but once im out i plan to go full linux.
btw any suggestions for what linux i should run, those of you who also own a framework
@cunningunz good to know
Just discovered ur channel, the upload schedule is a godsend or ppl like me who watch documentary style vids on yt
Buyer Beware! I bought one of these. The mother board failed on day one. That was three weeks ago and it has been two weeks since I have last heard from Framework. The customer service is beyond horrible.
Dang man, I was really considering to get one of these. Gotta think a lil harder before I proceed to, thanks man.
Can you tell me more about your experience? I've spoken with them about potentially becoming an authorized repair provider for their equipment, and we have not really worked anything out. There is any way in which they're repair services are lacking, I'd like to know what specifically went on, because it is possible since I have the email and phone number of the CEO, to do something about it. I have no financial investment in this company, but ideologically, obviously, I have an interest in their success. Thank you
Yeah, but OP is likely a bot...
The one incident i heard on the framework forum about bad customer support seemed to be debunked due to a faulty email
on the other hand ive heard of people having issues and getting emails from the ceo asking about the problem to fix it. Customer support seems okay
This is going to replace my ThinkPad when it's time. Great video.
Looks great, but on their interchangable IO why not have more space used? For instance, the USB C port add-on could hold like three, but they only put in one.
$$$$
Honestly, it's probably more of a power issue. You don't wanna overload a single chip and fry it rather than just have 2 separate ones that they can handle
Good question. It seems that the internal-side USB-C connector is actually running at USB4 speeds in a not-currently-certified-so-technically-can't-call-it-Thunderbolt-mode, so it should be able to support heftier I/O options than they actually offer.
Great thing ! I hope this kind of hardware becomes popular.
But can you upgrade the GPU?
Apparently yes in all new Framework Laptop 16
@@okman9684 Do laptops have a GPU?
Great start. Open source software AND hardware is the solution to the whole planned-obsolescence / inability-to-repair problem.
The big issue here is the usage of intel/amd chips. When RISC-V gets more viable, they should move to it. No management engine, open-source hardware.
Open-source hardware unfotunately doesn't mean the chips aren't backdoored, in fact you could argue more likely backdoored by glowies and/or CCP as customers self-identify as being security-focused. I recently bought a VisionFive V1 SoC ($150 raspberry-pi-like computer that has RISC-V CPU) and i'm looking forward to testing power consumption and speed, but i'm not going to assume that because the CPU instruction set is open source (which really just means documented) that the chip isn't going to spy on me.
@@cannaroe1213 That argument would also apply to open-source software, which it does not. If you are into open-source, like framework, they would choose open instruction and open schematic chips.
@@vladlu6362 I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. I wish it did but it doesn't. Being a RISC-V chip doesn't mean the schematic is open source. RISC-V is the name for what instructions the CPU can handle. Intel/AMD processors for example run x86. x86 is documented, but there are also operations that these CPUs can perform that are not documented (people have reverse engineered some of them though, particularly since the discovery of the intel management engine). Anyway all this has nothing to do with what the silicon fabricator makes, we're just talking about the instruction set, which is essentially a protocol. It's not a physical thing. The creation of physical chips that adheres to the instruction set protocol is done by a very small number of companies, all of which without exception (except for maybe Rockchip) work in partnership with their nation's intelligence and security services. They can (and do) add undisclosed circuits to those chips to undermine encryption, monitor network access, access any program's memory directly, etc etc etc. RISC-V allows anybody, even you and me, to start building CPUs that support RISC-V without having to pay anyone a licence - but i'm still legally allowed to backdoor it. Can't be helped.
In fact it might be illegal (depending on the country) to NOT backdoor it ;-) See ARM/GCHQ.
You are doing really a great work dude, and also a lot of it, pls keep it going!
Is there intel management engine in framwork laptops?
Thank you so much for making this video! This is like the dream laptop I always wanted but never knew about
We need cpu's without sidechannel attack vulnerabilities.
I wonder if China with their "Clone CPU's" have the same spooky stuff....
I mean its from china but still...
Huge thumbs up for putting one of Scotty Kilmer's thumbnails in your video :D Gotta love this guy and his awesome videos about cars. His whole persona is funny, his videos are funny, his thumbnails and titles are clickbait, but you always end up with some good lessons in there, You just always learn something valuable from him! he shares great knowledge and his various cautionary tales & stories are always very informative & funny! His YT channel about about cars is somewhat addictive :D