How Close to the Truth is Six The Musical? (Part 2)

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  • Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
  • Divorced, beheaded, died. Divorced, beheaded, survived.
    Six is a contemporary British musical that looks at the lives of the wives of Henry VIII, who are notorious for their ascent then usual descent from Queen-Consort to losing their heads about it, in more ways than one. But how close does "Six: The Musical" represent the lives of these women who rose the ranks of nobility to land in Henry's courtship? Can we ever truly get close to what their reality was? Did Anne Boleyn have an extra finger? Did Anne of Cleves have the face of a horse? Watch this Part 2 of 2 to find out more about the adultery, scandal and betrayal that faced each and every one of these women.
    In this video, we take a look at the written lives of these women and then compare it to how Six represents them in another entry to our: 'How close to the truth is...' series. If you enjoy our content please consider subscribing to our channel for more theatre, history and comedic content. We appreciate all of your support and are so grateful to the comments, likes and subscribes we have received so far. Thank you :D!
    B - Somber Ballads de Kevin MacLeod é licenciada de acordo com a licença Atribuição 4.0 da Creative Commons. creativecommon...
    Artista: incompetech.com/

Комментарии • 392

  • @pileofsocks8287
    @pileofsocks8287 3 года назад +4482

    That moment you realize the Kathryn of Aragon's marriage was longer then Kathryn Howard's life: 👁👄👁

  • @blue.berry.b
    @blue.berry.b 3 года назад +1869

    I feel the worst for kathrine Howard. She literally had her childhood taken away, but was blamed for being abused by the men in her life

    • @meginmd
      @meginmd 3 года назад +7

      another person applying 21st ideals to the 16th century. Open a book. Educate yourself.

    • @nataliesparks4829
      @nataliesparks4829 3 года назад +21

      I hate mehn😤

    • @nataliesparks4829
      @nataliesparks4829 3 года назад +71

      @@meginmd ????

    • @WolvenDragonZ
      @WolvenDragonZ 3 года назад +176

      Just because she lived in a time where it was accepted and normal doesn't mean we can't feel bad for her now

    • @englishatheart
      @englishatheart 3 года назад +100

      @@meginmd Sounds like you're the one who needs to do that.

  • @awesomesara3683
    @awesomesara3683 3 года назад +2410

    Fun fact, Catharine of Aragon and Jane Seymour are the only 2 that kept the title of "Queen of England" after their deaths, since Catherine being queen for more than 2 decades, and Jane providing a male successor.

    • @Luv2Dnce4
      @Luv2Dnce4 3 года назад +97

      Didn’t Elizabeth I’s ascension to the throne lead to Anne Boleyn being officially recognized as a Queen of England, too? Or did Queen Elizabeth I just legitimize the marriage between her parents?

    • @napoleonbonaparte7529
      @napoleonbonaparte7529 3 года назад +61

      Katherina of Aragon was stripped of her title as Queen and only allowed to be called Dowager Princess of Wales

    • @sleepystories8958
      @sleepystories8958 3 года назад +38

      jane was never crowned queen. the call her queen since she was henry's wife who gave him a son

    • @englishatheart
      @englishatheart 3 года назад +7

      Can't people just say "fact"? How is it "fun"?

    • @tsuritsa3105
      @tsuritsa3105 2 года назад +21

      Catherine of Aragon was restored to the title of queen on her daughter, Mary I's, accession. She was originally buried as Dowager Princess of Wales in acknowledgement of her married to Prince Arthur. Mary I was determined to undo her father's divorce of her mother, bastardization of her, and break with the church. Unlike Mary I, Elizabeth I made no attempt to undo Henry VIII's choices and moved her country forward instead.

  • @Angaurwen
    @Angaurwen 3 года назад +2596

    On the topic of K Howard, you mention how the show doesn't make mention of how she was utterly alone and unsupported.
    I read someone's comment that makes a really good observation. The other 5 ladies usually support the lead singer in each of their songs as backing vocals but in All You Wanna Do they're quite silent. They mostly dance and even put their hands on her making Howard feel extremely singled out and attacked from all angles. Lyrically it doesn't mention it but musically the sentiment is definitely there.

    • @gemmagillooly695
      @gemmagillooly695 3 года назад +434

      So true. If my memory is correct is the only line that the other queens sing "playtime's over"? If so that's an additional level of dark

    • @akumamaou3022
      @akumamaou3022 3 года назад +53

      i kinda noticed that too-

    • @akumamaou3022
      @akumamaou3022 3 года назад +30

      @@gemmagillooly695 i dont really think they sung in all you wanna do?

    • @MistySophie
      @MistySophie 3 года назад +199

      and don't forget how before that they all laughed at her until she starting roasting them back

    • @gwyneames
      @gwyneames 3 года назад +21

      Awesome note!

  • @Sarsak206
    @Sarsak206 3 года назад +2091

    I'd argue that the musical does kind of address Anna's beauty in her solo when she says that she didn't agree that she didn't look like her profile picture (portrait). And while I don't think there's any evidence that she actually did hang up her portrait, it IS there in the louvre right now for everyone to see.

    • @the_fabled_void
      @the_fabled_void 3 года назад +138

      There's also "Get down you dirty rascal", which might just be in reference to what happened between Anna and Henry

    • @theapplequeen5832
      @theapplequeen5832 3 года назад +78

      I mean- also with her. She was kept inside the royal court (from memory). Which was mostly filled with people who were well...pretty. It may be that she had much stronger features, and his other wives had gentle features.

    • @RedChaos1208
      @RedChaos1208 3 года назад +29

      It is addressed in the first number but was interrupted by K. Howard
      “But that was never Henry”s little pr-“

    • @NubyhStone
      @NubyhStone 3 года назад +62

      @@RedChaos1208 not quite the line, it says:
      “But I didn't look as good as good as I did in my pic
      Funny how we all discuss that but never Henry's little-“
      Which is way better 😂😂

    • @circe2258
      @circe2258 2 года назад +7

      @@NubyhStone @Red
      it does say the full line
      Anne and Cleves- “funny how we discuss that but never henry’s little-“
      k Howard- “Prick but your ears it’s the one who lost her head”

  • @comedyblastYT
    @comedyblastYT 3 года назад +1788

    It's so upsetting that K Howard was killed for past (abusive) relationships and a rumour "confessed" under duress. She deserved better

    • @meginmd
      @meginmd 3 года назад +12

      I wish people would stop applying 21st century ideals to the 16th century. At her time, Katherine's relationships with Francis and Henry were completely normal. Also, you are aware that Kitty knew she was a Howard and basically told Mannox that he was beneath her and she'd never marry him? Katherine was 14 when she married Arthur. Henry's mother was 13 when she gave birth to him.

    • @comedyblastYT
      @comedyblastYT 3 года назад +78

      @@meginmd yeah, so actually I did do a little more research after writing this post and a few things: though she was most likely quite young, the age gap is most likely less than what SIX suggested between her and Mannox, so it was mostly normal except he was engaged to someone else. There's still a power imbalance, but you're right, abusive is a stretch. Her relationship with Francis sounds like it was more one sided by the end of it, where he was seriously talking about marriage and she didn't want to go there. She was most likely around the age of 17-19 when she married Henry and was the youngest of his wives so no marrying at 13 wasn't "normal" by then, that's a myth and a gross one.

    • @meginmd
      @meginmd 3 года назад +10

      @@comedyblastYT What Six suggests about Kitty Howard is not accurate at all--really, the only part I agree with about Katherine is when she sings "Prick up your ears I'm the Katherine who lost her head for my promiscuity outside of wedlock..." But even then her affair with Thomas may only have been emotional. At the end of the day, the only people Katherine slept with were Dereham and Henry and *maybe* Thomas.

    • @comedyblastYT
      @comedyblastYT 3 года назад +49

      @@meginmd yeah, I realize that. Like I said I did more research after writing that comment, which is really more so the point of Six: to get people talking and learning about these women by telling a compelling story. They never claimed the story was 100% accurate, they even say "nothing is for sure, nothing is for certain, all we really know is we used to be six wives"

    • @comedyblastYT
      @comedyblastYT 2 года назад +7

      @@po8883 her exact age is unknown, but she didn't start living with the dowager duchess until she was around 6, idk if she met Mannox right away or if it was a few years after that and I dont have the book I'm reading about her here right now. So basically... maybe? But probably not, cause again the age gap wasn't that much and I can't imagine an 8-9 year old teaching music and manipulating their student like that even back then

  • @messedupdweeb
    @messedupdweeb 3 года назад +931

    Regarding K. Howard’s performance, some actually pointed out how she was the only one singing her song with no back-up vocals except for “playtime’s over” where it can be interpreted as the women around her only enjoying her downfall.

    • @jadehamilton2819
      @jadehamilton2819 3 года назад +76

      As a kid, one of my favourite TV shows was "The Six Wives of Henry VIII" (although it was made in 70s, I had the video and watched it repeatedly) and Katherine Howard's episode was always my favourite. Katherine (played, I think, by Sarah Miles) comes across - as in 'Six'- as quite young for her age: very emotional, very naïve and way, WAY out of her depth. The most emotional scene - for me- is one in which Katherine describes to a lady-in-waiting what her and Henry's wedding night is like: "I thought there would still be the body of a Hercules beneath his satins and golds. But, instead there was the body of an old, fat man...He is ugly!" The way the actor said those lines, with a combination of awe, fear and spine-freezing terror always gave me goosebumps. And, given what I know of Katherine's history, makes total sense.

    • @user.LCW01
      @user.LCW01 2 года назад +37

      In the musical itself, they even tug or pull on her mic/arm when the song starts to reach more of a climax. Kind of like in a way of silencing her just like how people often did with victims back then, and some even today.

    • @barbarahannon6033
      @barbarahannon6033 Год назад

      @@jadehamilton2819 The female actor in the programme was Angela Pleasance (daughter of Donald). Fun fact they were also in the BBC production of the Barchester Cronicals as father and daughter.

    • @ireallyhateyouplsdieinafir107
      @ireallyhateyouplsdieinafir107 Год назад +4

      They didn't enjoy her downfall, they're narrating the despair Howard feels for your childhood to be taken away at such a young age

  • @N1ghtGlider
    @N1ghtGlider 3 года назад +512

    “The savvy, educated, young princess… deemed repulsive by the wheezing, wrinkled, ulcerated man 24 years her senior. “
    Katherine might’ve roasted all the queens in her intro but Anna gave Henry a burn too 😂

  • @Megumi07
    @Megumi07 2 года назад +341

    Another thing I like about Katherine Howard’s song is when the song is sounding happy the part ‘playtime’s over’ sounds like it’s referring to their ‘sexy playful time’ but by the end of the song, it’s sounding threatening and is referring to her lost childhood and innocence, reflecting Katherine’s mental state as the abuse she has gone through takes it’s toll and she realises how much she has been taken advantage of and trapped she is and always has been.

  • @mikigacha4252
    @mikigacha4252 3 года назад +1051

    I think six the musical is a tribute to these amazing woman and I LOVE THAT. Six the musical will forever hold a special place in my heart.

    • @kannakamui4569
      @kannakamui4569 3 года назад +12

      Same

    • @fleabaguette9699
      @fleabaguette9699 3 года назад +28

      Agreed. Even if it isn't 100 percent accurate, I'm so glad that it has sparked interest in these women and gave their stories a voice for modern audiences.

  • @late_prince8945
    @late_prince8945 3 года назад +782

    I think the musical wasn't really supposed to show us the real queens, I think it was more about women, in general, telling their own stories in history but also today, that's why their lives were simplified to represents a more relatable story. You also have to remember that the whole show was actually an act that was supposed to show us how pointless competing them is and from now on we should focus on them as individuals. In the last song I Don't Need Your Love we hear ''I've told you about my life The final wife But why should that story Be the one I have to sing about Just to win? I'm out That's not my story There's so much more'' I would interpret this as encouragement for people to actually learn about these people, with was successful, at least for me, after listening to the soundtrack I deed research about all of them. In the end, the show isn't even mainly historical fiction, also I'm not sure if more detailed songs would be a good fit for a concert type of show.

    • @bops_the_potato
      @bops_the_potato 3 года назад +11

      I love this interpretation 👏👏

    • @moniquegrove9809
      @moniquegrove9809 2 года назад +5

      This says it all

    • @virginiadumond2213
      @virginiadumond2213 Год назад +5

      Agree 100%. I also feel it was created to support ALL women and show that we shouldn't be competing for men. Women need to quit using one-another for stairs and start lifting each-other up.

  • @NotesFromTheVoid
    @NotesFromTheVoid 3 года назад +193

    That feeling when you find out there are no confirmed portraits of Catherine Howard as her family got rid of them after her execution. Same with anne, but at least one confirmed portrait of her survives.
    Catherine deserved better.
    I've seen six live and towards the end of her song when she starts really looking uncomfortable with the touching and what happened, i was concerned for the actress for a bit. Wow that was probably the most impactful song of them

    • @hastiborhani3492
      @hastiborhani3492 2 года назад +23

      Yeah Elizabeth also had anne's picture in her locket ring,it's sad katherine didn't have anyone to mourn her...

    • @tristangillespie2615
      @tristangillespie2615 2 года назад +5

      @@hastiborhani3492 maybe her mourners didn't go down in history

  • @glitterdrakar7095
    @glitterdrakar7095 3 года назад +299

    As the quote says: in history "unknown author/artist/composer/philosopher etc usually means a woman".

  • @crayonburry
    @crayonburry 3 года назад +1084

    There is a historical error in “Haus of Haulbein”, when they said “corsets” and “no one wants a waist over 9 inches”
    Well corsets didn’t exist until the 19th century, before then women wore stays, -but before Elizabeth I they were called a pair of bodies.-
    Corsets emphasized the curvy shape of the figure, while a pair of bodies would rather flatten everything down.
    It would also be impossible for a pair of bodies to reduce the waist size any more than modern clothing. since the materials necessary to give the fabric enough strength would not be included in garments until the advent of the corset.
    Even then, with the advent of the corset, waist reduction was almost never done physically, but was done by tricking the eye by increasing the size of the hips (padding), chest (padding), or shoulders (poofy sleeves). And with all history, editing depictions of the body (art, paintings, and photography).

    • @crayonburry
      @crayonburry 3 года назад +105

      If you ever feel interested in fashion history, Bernadette banner, Karolina Zebrowska, and many other fashion historians and costubers make very insightful videos that show how clothing adapted to the different needs of everyday people.
      Though, most of it is still generalized, since fashion history is young and was only recognized professionally last decade.

    • @flamboyante._
      @flamboyante._ 3 года назад +35

      Actually, Pair of Bodies weren't a thing until Elizabethean Era, the earliest examples that have been survived up to this days are from 1580-1590, before that time, clothes seemed to be highly structured and boned in the bodice, just like a kirtle. Even earlier, in early 16th century England, clothes weren't even boned.

    • @flamboyante._
      @flamboyante._ 3 года назад +19

      Another fun fact is that the documents tells us that the fashion of the "pair of Bodies" came from Catherine of Medicis, queen of France in the mid 16th century, so it's very likely that it was an Italian fashion as the women from that region were depicted highly rigid and flat chests, that only means that it was something happening inside the gowns from that part of Europe.

    • @crayonburry
      @crayonburry 3 года назад +13

      @@flamboyante._ ah, When I was trying to remember the date it came into use. Google was being very vague only referring to as mid-late 16th century.
      Thank you

    • @orchidsarepretty1422
      @orchidsarepretty1422 3 года назад +15

      Agree. Although I think they were propre just making fun. Also I don’t think anyone would get “You bring the bodies” 😂

  • @unspoken2460
    @unspoken2460 2 года назад +74

    i love the way K howards song is done in the musical, by each verse she gets more and more tired until she lashes out in the final chorus

  • @Nachtelfin0des0Todes
    @Nachtelfin0des0Todes 3 года назад +352

    Howard's story actually helped me to cope with past trauma a bit more. I'm thankful, that the musical pushed a piece of history into the public's eye outside of Britain

    • @hey_itzsugrz726
      @hey_itzsugrz726 2 года назад +13

      I actually agree with you. I'd been trying to cope for years, and have suppressed the trauma rather well, but I couldn't help but feel alone, wondering if I were to blame for what happened to me. However, after hearing Katherine's solo and how her actor clearly represented her lonliness and how manipulated she was, I didn't feel as alone anymore. I felt a lot more supported than before, and to this day it's one of my most favorite comfort songs

    • @theressomegardeningtoolsin8993
      @theressomegardeningtoolsin8993 2 года назад +3

      that's great! im sorry to hear that you can relate to such terrible experiences, but i hope that finding a place where you feel heard/validated/seen helps! sending love~

  • @JKrowlingrockx
    @JKrowlingrockx 3 года назад +240

    Idk if it means anything, but I kinda liked how they allude to the idea that people only ever talk about Anne of Cleve’s appearance (according to Henry) “funny how we all discuss that but never Henry’s little...” It would have been interesting to see how they could have incorporated that idea a bit more into anna’s song, like “oh ya, he told you I was ugly. Actually, I think you’ll find his pride was hurt cause he tried to get with me before we were married. And I said ‘NEIN!’” I LOVE this sassy portrayal of a woman who knew how to play her cards right and got the most out of a messy situation. Especially since typically you hear next to nothing about his wives after Jane (in terms of specifics). So I loved the last 3 queens, cause I feel like I learned a fair bit, even as a history nerd. I looked up info about these queens after watching it, and that’s when I discovered that quite a few people think Henry probably did make up the whole “anna is ugly” bit to save his own pride. Which is pretty in character honestly.

    • @N1ghtGlider
      @N1ghtGlider 2 года назад +3

      And even then, Jane herself is kinda obscure compared to Aragon and Boleyn.
      All we know of Jane is that she gave him a son and died before he got bored of her

  • @meganspalletta-ferrari6638
    @meganspalletta-ferrari6638 3 года назад +447

    I really liked this series. Six is one of my favorite musicals, and it’s almost like a Spice Girls version of Hamilton in my mind. It’s a creative reimagining of history. And I’m a sucker for the costumes! I kinda wish you went in depth a bit on how they’re all inspired by the musical artists they represent while also paying homage to the classic style of dress worn during the queens time.

    • @meginmd
      @meginmd 3 года назад +3

      holy fuck nothing everything is about hamilton jfc

  • @turtlequeenofchickens3306
    @turtlequeenofchickens3306 3 года назад +390

    "It makes us want to learn more about the people its talking about"
    Me: That's not true... *realizes that I know more random trivia about the six wives than I do for literally anything else that's taught at my school*

    • @w1shlee
      @w1shlee 2 года назад +6

      dude same and i chose geography gcse aswell💀💀

  • @TheDramaDorks
    @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +310

    Timestamps: ❤️💗💙
    3:25 - Anna of Cleves ❤️
    10:02 - Katherine Howard 💗
    17:49 - Catherine Parr 💙

    • @raquelDRS5936
      @raquelDRS5936 3 года назад +2

      My Favorite it's 10:02 ( Katherine Howard )

    • @teeveee2758
      @teeveee2758 2 года назад

      What was anna of cleves modern day singer? Nicky minaj? Eve?

  • @lesbianmoonstone7967
    @lesbianmoonstone7967 Год назад +45

    I love what you said about Catherine Howard because even people who claim to know so much about the history of her, my mother, forget that she was still a child and a woman who was abused and possibly falsely accused and/or blackmailed into her affair.

  • @kiapet286
    @kiapet286 2 года назад +53

    I think they do dispute Anna's supposed ugliness, or more accurately that they cast doubt on Henry's authority to judge her appearance in the first place. First in her introduction to the song she describes herself as a "savvy, educated young princess, deemed repulsive by a wheezing, wrinkled, ulcer-riddled man 24 years her senior", which is basically her pointing out that Henry judging her by appearance is hypocritical as heck while also emphasizing her other positive qualities that he outright ignored. Then in her song's refrain you have the line "too bad I don't agree" in regards to her not looking like her profile picture, followed by her saying she'll hang it up for everyone to see, which indicates that she finds his judgement wrong and is in open defiance of it.

  • @RAGGHHHHGHGG
    @RAGGHHHHGHGG 3 года назад +74

    I think that the way that they show how unsupportive the other women were was through the lack of background vocals. The other women rarely join in, one specific part they do join in at is "Playtime's over."

  • @quenepacrossing4675
    @quenepacrossing4675 3 года назад +242

    The legally blonde/mary bit made me snort! I didn’t know about six but i just enjoy watching your videos. Thanks for the two parter!

  • @kquinnvandevelde1384
    @kquinnvandevelde1384 3 года назад +91

    I'd say that Anna's song focusing on her not being beautiful (which I'd argue, it doesn't say she's ugly, just that henry thought she was) is actually pretty powerful because that shouldn't matter, especially since beauty is such a moving target. Based on modern standards we can't say that she would or wouldn't be beautiful and based on standards then, the same is true. But there's power in the idea that that shouldn't change her worth as a romantic partner, queen, or person.

  • @stuffstuff5218
    @stuffstuff5218 3 года назад +76

    Bro saying butterfly in German caught me so off guard I laughed so hard

  • @itskimk8920
    @itskimk8920 3 года назад +178

    Kathryn Howard was so young even if she is not the best queen (in my opinion) she did had it the worst

    • @stormfischerr
      @stormfischerr 3 года назад +26

      comparing their traumas and naming one as the “best” goes against the entire eventual message of the show

    • @itskimk8920
      @itskimk8920 3 года назад +10

      @@stormfischerr im not camparing its my opinion im just pointing out that she had it the worst stop putting words in my mouth

    • @itskimk8920
      @itskimk8920 3 года назад +1

      @@stormfischerr and im sorry if u mistinterpreted my comment

    • @meginmd
      @meginmd 3 года назад +1

      @@stormfischerr But she did have it rough. She wasn't prepared to be queen, liked sex, and then paid the price for it.

  • @cienmcqueen2999
    @cienmcqueen2999 3 года назад +66

    Though the musical is only semi-educational, it sent me down the path to learn more about these queens in other historical outlets. I only knew of one historical figure that I shared my name with, Catherine the Great of Russia. Now with this musical, I learned more about the 3 queens named Catherine (Katherine). In my K-12 American education, I only heard of King Henry VIII. Can't recall if we ever went over his 6 wives in all that time. That's American education for you, focusing on U.S. History and limiting world history. Exhibit A, I first heard of Catherine the Great of Russia from a video game 😖

    • @alextheidiot.wastaken
      @alextheidiot.wastaken 2 года назад +2

      we covered kathrine of aragon and anne boleyn and that was it. and we only covered that much to talk a out the church of england and the religious reform. i didnt even know he had 6 wives until i watched the musical

    • @katynstevensmom
      @katynstevensmom Год назад +1

      There's also Catherine de Medici (called the "most important woman in Europe in the 16th century"), Catherine of Valois (Henry VIII's great grandmother, and a princess of France in her own right), Catherine of Siena, and Catherine of Alexandria (the latter two are Catholic saints). Catherine of Siena was influential in moving the center of the Catholic Church from France back to Rome. Like Katherine H, Catherine of Alexandria was also imprisoned and murdered as a teenager, in her case after winning scholarly debates against a bunch of Roman philosophers and refusing a marriage proposal from the Roman emperor at the time. She was tortured before she was murdered.

  • @bcasey2830
    @bcasey2830 3 года назад +66

    I wish they spent more time on the achievements of the queens, like they did with Parr at the end. Anna of Cleves rode with Mary Tudor to London when she claimed her crown, and Catherine of Aragon was regent in England during the war with Scotland, and was a military commander during the Battle of Flodden. They could have made something great with that.

  • @bymeerabrowngothicroyal
    @bymeerabrowngothicroyal 3 года назад +283

    I’m doing six with a threatre troupe in Canada because live theatre is a thing here, and I’m auditioning for either Anna of Cleves or Anne Boleyn, this was an interesting piece of introspection and thank you for researching this, also, have you by chance read Anna, Duchess of Cleves: The King's Beloved Sister by Heather R. Darsie?

    • @TheDramaDorks
      @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +45

      Thank you, glad you enjoyed! I haven’t read that myself. I love Six but it does kinda jump over a few historically interesting parts of the Queens’ lives. Best of luck with your audition! What’re you planning to sing for it?

    • @bymeerabrowngothicroyal
      @bymeerabrowngothicroyal 3 года назад +29

      @@TheDramaDorks for our audition we're all doing a section of six and for my monologue I'm doing Anna of Cleves's monologue. Thank you!

    • @Millennial_Echo
      @Millennial_Echo 3 года назад +2

      How did your audition go?

    • @bymeerabrowngothicroyal
      @bymeerabrowngothicroyal 3 года назад +15

      @@Millennial_Echo good, I got the part I wanted.

    • @Millennial_Echo
      @Millennial_Echo 3 года назад +4

      @@bymeerabrowngothicroyal Congratulations!! :D

  • @Nitolez
    @Nitolez 3 года назад +75

    Why does this don't have the recognition it deserves?
    This is AMAZING

  • @vainpiers
    @vainpiers 3 года назад +45

    corsets weren't used until the 18th century and bodies only really started surfacing during Elizabeths reign, in the Henerican period the closest you'd get is boned/stiffened kirtles, this was in order to get a flat front and conical shape that was popular during the period. Tightlacing was not possible until the 18th century because metal eyelets weren't used until then, hand-sewn eyelets just aren't strong enough to be pulled tightly to alter body shape significantly. There is very little evidence that corsets or other boned undergarments were harmful when used as intended.
    sources: I wrote my dissertation on this topic and I make corsets, stays and other historical garments as part of my uni course. I'd encourage people to read work by Valerie Steele if they're interested in corsetry, and "The corseted skeleton" by Rebecca Gibson

    • @katallen7123
      @katallen7123 2 года назад

      I don’t think they’re suggesting that this is the historical record, I think that this is an anachronistic lyrical style choice used to play the number “nine” off of the German word for no, “nein”. Both are used repeatedly in different contexts throughout the song, sometimes interchangeably. “Boned kirtle” just doesn’t hit the same as a lyric.

  • @yourfriendlyneighbour3485
    @yourfriendlyneighbour3485 3 года назад +119

    "That's called sisterhood" 😃😃

  • @KHIYAB
    @KHIYAB 2 года назад +20

    Is it just me or has anyone else been laughing for 10 minutes about the German word for butterfly lmao 😭😭😭

  • @TheDramaDorks
    @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +44

    ❤️💗💙
    *Additional Note*: As commenters have pointed out, the term 'corsets' in Haus of Holbein is not quite correct. The bodices used in the late 16th century didn't cinch the waist in as 19th century and modern corsets do, but rather were rigid and stiff. Sorry about that, enjoy the rest of the video!
    What was your favourite thing you learnt about the six wives? They certainly left a legacy and were packed with more twists and drama than a telenovela!
    Please be sure to like, subscribe, share with your lockdown lover (or all six of them if you’re so inclined). We appreciate all of the support! New video coming soon!
    ❤️💗💙

  • @FaithTeddyElizaArePerfect
    @FaithTeddyElizaArePerfect Год назад +10

    Learned more random facts about C of Argon, Anne .B, Jane .S, Anna of Cleves , K.H, C Parr from a musical than any other topic that they teach in school. Maybe if they sang the subjects in the formats of All you wanna do, Ex wives, No way, Halls of hollibin, Don’t loose your head, I don’t need your love, Heart of a stone, Six or Get down I’d remember what a polygon is or the French word for duck

  • @mickeymouseclubhouse2311
    @mickeymouseclubhouse2311 3 года назад +65

    See, I always felt like Catherine of Aragon had the worst life from just the musical. This video changed my mind to Katherine Howard

    • @AkunoRaion
      @AkunoRaion 7 месяцев назад

      @debashritatikadar_368 Spelling really wasn't a thing back then. It could've been Catherine, Katherine, Kathryn, or *squints at her signature* Ka(θ/תシLnvL.
      The musical Six spells her name as Katherine Howard, probably to distinguish her from Catherine Parr who comes right after her.

    • @AkunoRaion
      @AkunoRaion 7 месяцев назад

      @debashritatikadar_368 That’s fair. As I said, there aren’t any real spellings since that wasn’t really a thing back then, especially among women, and especially with a name that people still struggle to spell.
      The musical uses “Catherine” for Aragon and Parr and “Katherine” for Howard. So if you’re talking to people about the musical, those are the spellings you’re going to find most often.

  • @nnilsia
    @nnilsia 3 года назад +45

    As for the song not addressing the women around her, I think that the lyrics "Playtime's over" is representative of the women around her.

  • @jaimeegreen1847
    @jaimeegreen1847 6 месяцев назад +2

    You hit the nail on the head for why I love this show (outside of the amazing music and concept)! It makes you curious about what really happened. Much like Hamilton, as you mentioned, and other historical narratives, we cannot take them as 100% correct. Instead, we can take them as an opportunity to point us in the right direction for deeper learning

  • @wallacehunters9218
    @wallacehunters9218 Год назад +7

    if you pay attention to Katherine Howard's song, you'll notice that she doesn't have the same amount of backup vocals the others did, and the choreography emphasizes her isolation from other women, though the bootleg i watched was too zoomed in to actually see the choreoraphy.

  • @NubyhStone
    @NubyhStone 3 года назад +27

    I’m from Mexico, we don’t usually learn about English history over here; actually, I knew about Anne Boleyn from that movie called “The Other Boleyn”! I watched the musical cuz a representation of her was in it and I was curious… watching SIX opened a new obsession in me 😶 I started watching videos, reading online…. Rn I’m starting “The Tudors” with my mom!
    What I’m trying to say is that, for us who don’t learn about them at school… the musical is a great gate to get interested in history in a fun way!! ❤️❤️

  • @songweretson1513
    @songweretson1513 3 года назад +42

    They didn't wear corsets in the sixteenth century, though. They wore stays. Which are quite different.

  • @hyuckislovehyuckislife
    @hyuckislovehyuckislife Год назад +6

    I actually read that the reason that k.Howard appointed dereham as her secretary was because he threatened her by say that he would reveal that the two of them had been intimate to the court

  • @nuggetsplace8273
    @nuggetsplace8273 3 года назад +28

    in anne of cleves choreo, when she says ''I didn't look like my profile picture'' sometimes she do air quotes. i dont know if its because she wasn't ugly or because she is saying profile picture

    • @EmiTheGreat
      @EmiTheGreat 3 года назад +12

      I think it was supposed to be her mocking him and that's why in one of the verses she was faking crying or that boo hoo voice idk-

    • @nuggetsplace8273
      @nuggetsplace8273 3 года назад

      @@EmiTheGreat yeeeeaah thats what I was sayinggg

  • @kariissmol9172
    @kariissmol9172 2 года назад +18

    I just love Annas "I'm queen of the castle, kneel, bitch" mood. also, costume change. love that. If I could live off of quickchange costumes, I WOULD DO IT.

  • @LaSegadora
    @LaSegadora 3 года назад +54

    This is the best small channel I've found during this past year, I swear you guys are gonna be big because of how much love and effort goes into your videos, keep it up!!

  • @paulanewhook4460
    @paulanewhook4460 Год назад +10

    The real story behind the six wives is that none of them had any say in their own lives. The females of this status had only 2 purposes; to build up the statues, power and wealth of the males in the family through their marriage, and to have children for whoever they were told to marry. All six of these women were victims of the power plays going on all around them and they were seen as nothing more than pawns to be used and discarded at will. In spite of this, these six women ended up having a far greater role in history then the men around, some even more then the King himself...helping to create a new religion in England, effecting international relations, providing and influencing future monarchs. Parr alone personally influenced the next four monarchs; helping to reintroduce Mary back into the family, and helping to raise three (Edward, Elizabeth, and Jane Grey). If popular history only knows of them as the six wives of Henry VIII. Herstory should acknowledge them for so much more and SIX might just serve as a starting point.

  • @nnilsia
    @nnilsia 3 года назад +23

    I think that it still did them justice bc most people just knew them as Henry's six wives ya know? I like the tribute to them.

  • @sketchs_art_corner
    @sketchs_art_corner 3 года назад +13

    I watched Six for the songs, stayed to learn more about these women

  • @ivenoreamusic3322
    @ivenoreamusic3322 2 года назад +14

    I've always had an interest in the history of English royalty and especially in the Lives of Henry the 8th's and his wives and I don't even know why. I could watch hour long documentaries about them and never get Bored just more interested. Six is a very good musical to get people interested in history just as Hamilton which also got me really into American history. As a general History nerd and fan of Music this really combines my favourite things and your 2 videos on six were really good and informative for newcomers 😁

  • @lauracompton8301
    @lauracompton8301 2 года назад +11

    Kathrine Parr is my favorite, even though her life was no where near as bad as the Henry's other wifes, she still suffer, alot. And and even when she was finally able to marry the love of her life, she still struggled with alot.

  • @emmepemme95
    @emmepemme95 3 года назад +28

    I just started watching and I just gotta say, the intro was AMAZING

  • @thaisalmeida2648
    @thaisalmeida2648 3 года назад +73

    First of all, fantastic video! Thanks for it!
    Regarding K Howard, to anyone still debating that, her birthdate isn't even accurate, she could've been younger than 13 years of age at the time with Mannoch (or Mannox). But, regardless, the rape laws in England already existed, taking the start at 1275 where it condemned intercourse with girls 12 and under, with or without their consent, and people actually knew that. In some parts of Europe, sovereigns couldn't take over the throne until they were older than 15 years old and they would only marry at that age to act to their royal duties if there were no other people to govern, take Aragon and Arthur for example. If they can't get married, they can't have sex cause that was frown-upon and society didn't live too outside of this rule. So men preying upon unmarried girls were committing a crime and it is what it is. So to anyone saying we can't apply 21st century "ethics" to historical records, true but do check your facts and context. Rape and abuse of power have been raging humanity since the dawn of time, in many ways it was used as a war tactic, so people knew it was wrong and violent.

    • @Skittl1321
      @Skittl1321 Год назад +4

      I also think it is fine to judge historical actions with a modern eye and condemn them when needed. Women, and POC, have always been human, even when (white) men refused to treat them as such.

  • @AuthorZaraHoffman
    @AuthorZaraHoffman 10 месяцев назад +4

    Thomas Seymour (and Parr, according to multiple online sources) going after Elizabeth shocked me the first time I read about it.

  • @Avanescia
    @Avanescia 3 года назад +34

    Honestly, if it wasn't because of SiX many non-english speakers wouldn't have interest about the queens xd
    me, as an example, I didn't even know who Henry the Eighth was until I saw an animatic of Ex-Wives. It was thanks to the SiX fandom I learned about the Queens and Henry

    • @alexlefay
      @alexlefay 2 года назад +1

      Sweetie, Catherine of Aragon is Spanish. We study her in class and the side chicks to.

    • @pinksoft39
      @pinksoft39 2 года назад +2

      @@alexlefay they're probably not from Spain? I'm from Mexico and i don't know shit about Spain's history lol

    • @katynstevensmom
      @katynstevensmom Год назад

      @@alexlefay Yep, and the daughter or Ferdinand and Isabella, who were responsible for both the Spanish Inquisition and funding Christopher Columbus' voyage to what turned out later to be called the Americas.

  • @doodle7342
    @doodle7342 2 года назад +11

    I think Anna of Cleves/Kleve (I think Kleve was the german spelling but when I looked it up to make sure I spelled it right that's what popped up) proves that sometimes people are better off staying friends than just getting married.

  • @A_random_autistic
    @A_random_autistic 3 года назад +9

    idk if it was plannedor not but howard crying in the end of her song made me cry

  • @krultepes3399
    @krultepes3399 3 года назад +24

    Kathrine Parr’s daughter did not make it past the age of two (which is really upsetting considering she was also an orphan) 😢

    • @paloma-alfaro
      @paloma-alfaro 2 года назад

      omg wtf that's so sad

    • @valeriaramirez2204
      @valeriaramirez2204 2 года назад +2

      Well it's not that she died it's more like she disappeared from the records of history at the age of 2

  • @zuziiice8907
    @zuziiice8907 3 года назад +11

    When you think about it though.. the entire stress of royalty was that the marriages are favored more if the blood of both sides be royal and are of either favored countries or with strong influence+connection with the people.. much of the drama could be lessened if the rules were lifted and allowed the princes/princesses to find their loves on their own.

  • @kaieatswater8969
    @kaieatswater8969 3 года назад +11

    We all know that the only reason Henry divorced Anna was because Henry didn’t want to be a bottom
    And if history is accurate, Mannox was 23, Katherine was 5 or 6 years before her death.

  • @DezMarivette
    @DezMarivette Год назад +7

    This was a fabulous 2-Parter! I love learning more about these six queens and you had tidbits I never heard before!

  • @mcr9336
    @mcr9336 8 месяцев назад +2

    I think that the inspiration for Cleves possibly being Rihanna says a lot. Appeareance and vocals aside, her having a BEAUTY brand and Anna being 'rejected for her looks' is an awesome metaphor. And the music style and costume design is perfect for someone's that's symbollically defying beauty while looking gorgeous nonetheless.

  • @jg244
    @jg244 3 года назад +51

    Is there a particular musical artist that inspired Six's portrayal of Anne of Cleves?

    • @TheDramaDorks
      @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +72

      Oh yes, forgot to mention her style was based on Rihanna, Nicki Minaj and Charli XCX!

    • @livenitup862
      @livenitup862 3 года назад +4

      @@TheDramaDorks but what about her Beyoncé line?

    • @raquelDRS5936
      @raquelDRS5936 3 года назад +1

      @@livenitup862 Good cuestion

    • @triciacarey2288
      @triciacarey2288 3 года назад +12

      @@livenitup862 Beyoncé was the musical inspiration for Catherine of Aragon, there may be a Beyoncé reference in her song but that’s not where the inspiration for her song came from

  • @itsandieji
    @itsandieji 3 года назад +8

    3:17 it had been 2 years since I read horrible histories but I can recognise that scene in the book as I could never forget that lady’s humour

  • @kaitlinlarmore608
    @kaitlinlarmore608 3 года назад +11

    All you wanna do kinda does show no one helped her. its subtle but the only parts of the song they back up on is "playtimes over" which seems like they're mocking her.

  • @melenatorr
    @melenatorr 11 месяцев назад +2

    I understand that Mary and Anna actually got along very well with each other, for the most part, and that Mary even helped Anna out financially from time to time. As far as Katherine Howard is concerned, things were different between Mary and her, and much more tense.

  • @joghissing4634
    @joghissing4634 3 года назад +18

    Amazing! Iliked this video.
    Will you do a video about hamilton musical? :0

  • @jclarke9456
    @jclarke9456 3 года назад +20

    We got SO excited when the notification for this video appeared! Top quality content as always ❤️ Jade & James

  • @s.f.nightingale1735
    @s.f.nightingale1735 2 года назад +6

    I have never loved a word for butterfly more, I am still laughing.
    And I need more tea.

  • @katherxne2554
    @katherxne2554 3 года назад +38

    Catheri *NE* of Aragon
    An *NE* Boleyn
    Ja *NE* Seymour
    An *NE* of Cleves
    Katheri *NE* Howard
    Catheri *NE* Parr
    Looks like Henry has a type..

    • @dayuboy2770
      @dayuboy2770 3 года назад

      wait isnt it Anna of Cleves and not anne of Cleves????

    • @katherxne2554
      @katherxne2554 3 года назад +5

      @@dayuboy2770 it is but in the English form it’s Anne instead of Anna, that’s what they called her back when she was married to Henry

    • @dayuboy2770
      @dayuboy2770 3 года назад

      ah ok

  • @chubbycatstar7461
    @chubbycatstar7461 3 года назад +36

    From what I heard Anna truly didn’t look like her portrait at the time of her arrival. This is because she traveled by boat for so long that she started to become thinner and shriveled, if that’s the right word to use.

  • @CricketMcCrickerson
    @CricketMcCrickerson Год назад +2

    i know i'm 2 years late i am gonna cry thank you for this i hate how K.Howard died so young i mean like oh my god she was 19 i almost cryed watching this if anyone sees this who is your fav jane seymour is my fav and i hope you have a good day/night/noon

  • @Hola-8693
    @Hola-8693 3 года назад +34

    The fashion standards back then were soooo different from now that Anne of Cleves could actually be considered good looking in today’s standards I think

  • @karleeberryman7782
    @karleeberryman7782 2 года назад +3

    Loved seeing this! After seeing the show I’ve been reading articles and watching videos about them.
    It’s so tragic how the royals treated women

  • @gwynn2165
    @gwynn2165 7 месяцев назад +1

    I love how much everyone is talking about Katherine Howard!
    I get the ability to play her in our school play about Henry VIII in a *wonderfully* written script. I am a huge history nerd and already researched a ton about the Tudors, so I’m always the first to notice the inaccuracies, however even in this very artistic portrayal of it, the script was written so perfectly being accurate to all the events and true to character to all of the queens.
    So many people just remember her as a slut, so I like that she isn’t portrayed as completely innocent however abused, young and lost.
    The script is by Kristen Doherty, and it’s on RUclips. I totally recommend you guys all check it out.

  • @yurworstdaydream
    @yurworstdaydream 7 месяцев назад +1

    I’d like to point out that the musical never actually claims Anne of Cleves was ugly. Even going as far as to say ‘too bad I don’t agree’ and in the broadway version, ‘I do’ saying that she did look like her portrait.

  • @tylersmith3313
    @tylersmith3313 3 года назад +5

    Anna of Cleeves :so i'm going to hang it up for all to see and you can't stop me
    me: not going to stop you go Cleeves

  • @Christina-vs6cl
    @Christina-vs6cl 3 года назад +10

    You need more subscribers!! 👏👏

  • @threezerotwo
    @threezerotwo Год назад +2

    12:20 kinda surprised by the legally blonde reference especially since I just performed it today 😨

  • @LAULA12371
    @LAULA12371 Год назад +1

    You're right - I saw the show with my daughter and I'm seeing it again with my mom in a few days - so I was intrigued to know more about these queens in relation to the show. You're also right in that this show is only an hour or so long and that part really stinks! These tickets were very expensive (plus $25 parking and I have to drive close to 2 hours each way to see it) and I was truly disappointed when they said the show was over in 5 minutes! All I could think was WAIT! Shows are normally 2+ hours long, where's the intermission? Where's the second half? That's it? Clearly there was enough material to do a longer show - that is it's one flaw as far as I'm concerned. What I did see was excellent and a lot of fun! Plus the music is beyond catchy and will stick with you forever!

  • @kaleid_b
    @kaleid_b 3 года назад +4

    I really just can’t with the clip when Mary is mentioned 😂😂

  • @colonyofrats4193
    @colonyofrats4193 3 года назад +11

    Great video again! But the way you pronounce 'Norfolk' lmaooo

    • @TheDramaDorks
      @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +6

      I’ve lived in the U.K. for four years and I still slip up on pronunciation 😭💀

  • @DianaDoodles
    @DianaDoodles 3 года назад +9

    I think Kathrineof Aragon could be mistaken as Kathrine Howard's mother

  • @lexibooton5838
    @lexibooton5838 2 года назад +6

    "because Henry decided soon enough Katherine would be his next wife"
    beginning of the end

  • @MerBaby-xoxo
    @MerBaby-xoxo 3 года назад +8

    Nice job! Love this musical. These videos were very informative

  • @kennychytracek
    @kennychytracek 3 года назад +4

    The Derrick Barry bit made me spit out my water omg.

  • @MsJaytee1975
    @MsJaytee1975 Год назад +1

    Apparently the way Katherine Parr was pardoned also happened to Thomas Cranmer. I heard a Tudor historian say if you could get to Henry and plead your case plots to oust people didn’t work. The earlier wives, and Thomas Cromwell weren’t able to do that.

  • @stevestoneman5881
    @stevestoneman5881 Год назад +1

    This is a really good look at the real historical Events that happened to each of these women and you’re right this musical spurred and interest and there’s nothing wrong with that. You did a really nice job.

  • @LebenslangBetaphase
    @LebenslangBetaphase 3 года назад +18

    Insightful and nicely done! Thanks for your great work!

    • @TheDramaDorks
      @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +2

      Thank you 😊! We are glad you enjoyed 🙏🏻!

  • @imaniislander755
    @imaniislander755 3 года назад +6

    5:18 did he binge read Shakespeare the hell was he thinking.

  • @countryjewel
    @countryjewel 3 года назад +5

    12:18 Is this from an SVU episode? I know I've seen this but can't place it.
    Really enjoyed these videos! Thanks for researching and sharing.

    • @TheDramaDorks
      @TheDramaDorks  3 года назад +3

      Glad you enjoyed, it’s from Legally Blonde actually! 😁

  • @GraydenC
    @GraydenC Год назад +4

    I learned that almost everybody Henry Married was related in some way. 😳

    • @pandora-224
      @pandora-224 Год назад +2

      I'm pretty sure Henry was related to all them as well...

    • @NoName-dx1no
      @NoName-dx1no Год назад +2

      I mean there isn’t much nobles to go around and I don’t think noble society would even allow themselves to marry commoners for some new genes lmao

  • @Nuwanda-ev3ij
    @Nuwanda-ev3ij 3 года назад +25

    Thank you so much for this videos! I was always wondering how accurate Six truly was, since I don´t really trust myself and my research skills... So this videos have been very informative and entertaining, again, thank you!
    Yet one other thing: Why do all English-Speaking people always think German is such a harsh language? I´m seriously wondering, since I´m German myself and in my eyes my native tongue isn´t any more harsh or aggressive than others. And being a huge fan of Friedrich Schiller I´d argue that it definitely can be a very poetic and romantic language.
    So has anyone of you an explanation of why others see our language that way? Thanks beforehand for your answers!

    • @AhSatan
      @AhSatan 3 года назад +7

      I can't speak for everyone, but I think it's mostly due to the perception of how the language is portrayed in media. Many people get their exposure to German through films that depict the Nazis and/or through watching Hitler's speeches. I think that's what etched into our minds, so we stereotype German as a "harsh, rough and scary" language.

    • @frozenyogurth
      @frozenyogurth 3 года назад +17

      Probably because there's a lot of hard pronounciations in German whereas french or english is softer. Just look at the wird Ecke for example. English offen has soft ts ps and ks whereas those usually are harder pronounced in German. For example look at Tisch and table. Ect.

    • @pinksoft39
      @pinksoft39 2 года назад

      It sounds so agressive

    • @em01455
      @em01455 2 месяца назад

      As a native English speaker who studied German in high school I think people are just being pricks. Yes the use of hard consonant sounds and more throaty sounds (like in the word ‘ich’) contribute somewhat since they are not common in English, but the negative stereotypes held in the USA and other countries about Germans honestly inform the perception of the language more than the way it actually sounds. People here purposefully exaggerate the harshness of German words for comedy and people take it at face value. I mean if people actually listened to a ballad sung in German (Waltzer für Niemand is the first to come to mind) they’d relize how soft the sharper edges of individual words become in the voice of a native or fluent speaker. Also comparing German to a Romance language like French is kinda silly, it’s like comparing a cello to a piccolo both can sound lovely or grating. So long story short the perception comes from unchallenged cultural stereotypes and our only exposure to the language being non fluent comedians or Nazi speeches.
      Edit: side note it is extra ironic that English speakers think English doesn’t sond harsh because 1. It’s a Germanic language, England just got invaded a lot so French and Latin got mixed in there along the way, and 2 according to an old friend of mine who grew up in an Arabic speaking country, the first time she heard English spoken as a child she cried because it sounded “so harsh and scary” 🤣 And apparently that was a pretty common reaction where she lived. She’s fluent in English since she moved to the USA young but even to this day she thinks we all sound fucking weird.

  • @MoiraMcGill
    @MoiraMcGill 3 года назад +5

    2:18 if the portraits are accurate, Henry VIII certainly had a type xD

  • @theyreapollo
    @theyreapollo 2 года назад +13

    Anna of Cleves did in fact hung her Holbein portrait up, right on top of her throne- she actually told me herself 😌

  • @Jschisolm22
    @Jschisolm22 3 года назад +9

    Simply amazing!!!

  • @SerenityM16
    @SerenityM16 2 года назад +5

    Corsets unlike the myths portrayed, we not horrible torture devices where you removed ribs to fit them (seriously given the medical practices of the time if women did this there would have been no women left at all to marry), but often shifted weight comfortably especially for work reaching and shifting

  • @evadarkangel5399
    @evadarkangel5399 7 месяцев назад +3

    I love how they use German techno, which the Germans are obsessed with for Hans Holbein

  • @LisaMarieParadee
    @LisaMarieParadee Год назад +3

    Seeing clips of Horrible Histories in both video makes me wish the musical was written by the people who made Horrible Histories.

  • @TheLozzbozz
    @TheLozzbozz 3 года назад +7

    Henry didn't like Anne because she didn't understand courtship.... essentially he was just a prick lol