Whirlwind before the Crash | M-91 Vihor
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2023
- Throughout its existence, the Jugoslovenska Narodna Armija (Yugoslavian People’s Army, or JNA) strove to develop domestic tank designs in order to break its dependence on foreign suppliers. The initial projects involved either reusing already available components or simply improving an available design. None of these ever advanced beyond the prototype stage. The first successful locally-produced tank, although a licensed copy, was the M-84, which entered service in the second half of the 1980s. Despite being a competent design, the Yugoslavian Military High Command wanted an even better-performing tank, which would lead to the Vihor project.
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Sources:
M. C. Đorđević (2015), Odbrana Magazine
M. Jandrić, Seventh Decade of the Military Technical Institute (1948. - 2013.)
B. B. Dumitrijević (2010), Modernizacija i intervencija, Jugoslovenske oklopne jedinice 1945-2006, Institut za savremenu istoriju
M. Dragojević (2003) Razvoj Našeg neoružanja VTI kao sudbina, Zadužbina Adrijević
Magazine Poligon 2/2018
www.vs.rs/sr_cyr/o-vojsci/nao...
www.srpskioklop.paluba.info/vi...
www.srpskioklop.paluba.info/m8...
VIHORog/reboot/whirlwind-mystery-yugoslavias-m-19-heavy-tank-188810
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An article by Marko P
A script by Marko P
Narrated by Alcazar
Edited by Thundershark
Sound edited by Alcazar 
Авто/Мото
M57: "Let's take the TT-33 Tokarev and improve it."
M70: "Let's take the AKM and improve it."
M-84: "Let's take the T-72 and improve it."
The Yugos sure did a lot of that, not just copying other designs, but actually improving on them in many ways.
Serbia continues this tradition to this date
@@johnhighway7399 maybe other things, but most definitely not AKs. All those newer imported zastava AKs are 10 times worst then those produce during Yugoslav times. Did you made any improvements on M84 or those upgrades are still on backburner just like Croatian "degman" (which seem to be cancelled)?
Yugoslav was really good in this. Even when they changed the design of existing firearms such as Zastava M56 which was kind of a hybrid in PPS-43 and MP-40 and it was awesome
Nah the m84 still sucks the t72 is still a better machine
I was a JNA soldier in 90-91, VTI Belgrade and I saw that tank project.
and what happend to the tank?
"Trust me bro"
@@Yuri_Bodlovic nothing ,the croats have the prototype but no industry or money to produce it. Serbia has the industry but no money ,so we just modernise our existing tanks based on ideas that were supposed to be implemented on the m-91
Zar Hrvati nisu osposobili jedan primjerak?
@@stopitas5790 M-95 degman, dva komada ako se ne varam. Ali nije ništa ostalo od toga, srpski M-84 se unaprjeduju na naprednije verzije koliko sam visio od nasih.
Very cool video on an obscure tank. It is also worth noting that the M-91 designation (or any other M-XX number) was never officially assigned to the Vihor. According to the Odbrana magazine, the official designation was "NDT (New Domestic Tank) Vihor".
Ah some very cool exstra information. And yeah sorta taken a liking to the Vihor, i already sorta liked the T-62 and T-55 and this seems like a upgrade in many ways.
Even the M84 wasn't simply a T-72 copy. It is not fully compatible with other T-72 variants. Gun is, autoloader and general appearences. However, armor materials were a bit different, it had totally different fire control system, ballistic computer, self-entrenchment tool and some of them were equipped with anti-magnetic system for mine defense (basically, it increases magnetic field of the vehicle thus causing magnetic mines to detonate too soon, before the tank runs into them). Also, the engine was totally different; it was multi-fuel instead of diesel.
A lot of these and more were to be incorporated into Vihor (Whirlwind). But, it never came to be...
But Is true that it'was based on T-72 export variant inferiour to T-72 made for russia?
@@sjoormen1 The export variant is inferior because it is missing all the stuff that Vihor added back.
@@zchen27 thx so it's same, not better than russian standard model? What aboout armous- does turret have quarts in it?
@@sjoormen1 M84 was based on export "commander" version of T72.
Ordinary export T72 was called by western experts "monkey"T72 bc the quality of armor and materials was worse than of T72 made for Russian army.
Only commander version of T72 was the same as real Russian T72.
More than 100 M84s were exported to Kuwait before Gulf war and they turned out to be superior to Saddam's T72s.
Croatia continued to export them even during war between Croatia and Serbia(which I don't understand bc we needed tanks) but also we needed money so...
@@mynick937 thanks for you answer.
I love that you are using some Wargame: Red Dragon footage! Brings back fond memories :D
Vi koji razumjete. Zivjela Jugoslavija! Volim vas sve iz nasih exju republikama!
It was not licenced T 72 although they look similar. It was completely designed and produced by Yugoslav engineers. My dad was working on this project developing propulsion system.
I've heard that a license was bought for the T72M but sub systems were different and armour at least on the M84A.
Did Vihor have an auto loader like T72? Thats the biggest problem on T72 the ammo explodes thats why Western tanks always have the ammo in a separate compartment with blowout panels.
@@aramisone7198 initial production M84 had manuel loading, soon upgraded to auto, new aiming system, electronics etc. Yugoslav M84 didn't have that kind of problem with ammo exploding
@@aramisone7198 the autoloader is not the issue, its the least hit area on the tank the real issue it the ammo in the turret, but that can be removed. Most nato tanks dont have blowout panels, only the m1 abrams has them, leopard 2 have most of their ammo unpprotected next to the driver behind paper thin armor, chalenger 2 have all pt their ammo exposed.
If Yugoslavia hadn't collapsed? yes, the Vihor would have been able to compete with most modern tanks, since it would receive many upgrades over the years.
Nonsense. The communists in Yugoslavia were at least 30 years behind the world. Most of their weapons are copies of foreign ones.
Not a chance.When the production would had started the western tanks were over him but it could compete with many russian tanks and russian tanks derivated projects.But it would had no chance against Leo 2,Abrams,Challenger 2 and Leclerc.And many of its characteristic were only on paper,for example armour protection and gun performances.And we dont know if they could have truly deliver on their promises.
@@georgecristiancripcia4819 I wouldn't say, the Russians then had better tanks than the West. The T80 was among the best tanks back then.
@@alek9195
In what year or universe is this true ?
@@georgecristiancripcia4819 In our. You can pretend how much you want.
I always enjoy these videos on Yugoslav-Era armored vehicles and also maintain an interest in the programs of the independent republics. The Serbs make a fine tank.
No, they don't. Yugoslavia consisted of Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, and Macedonia. For example, equipment and suppliers for M84 came from all these countries - the gun, optics and armor from Bosnia, targeting computer from Slovenia, assembly was in Croatia etc. The Serbs were 30% of Yugoslavia.
@@davorjuric1609 Oh, I thought they took over that program once Yugoslavia was dissolved. I am willing to admit I was wrong and give proper credit to whoever was involved. Do any of them cooperate now?
Assembly plant is called Ðuro Ðakovic special vehicles and still operates in croatia, producing mainly 'Patria Infantry fighting vehicle' , they made a post war upgrade to m84, called m95 degman.
@Ivan Krtalic Thanks for the info! The Patria is a popular design.
@@davorjuric1609 Juriću čojek je mislio na srpski tenk sa kraja video, M84AS2.
Can you guys make a video about serbian
BOV Milos?
Very interesting video as always
That degman lookin hot af
Definite potential ! Really cool!
Quite informativne video!
During Tito-Stalin split Yugoslav army was JA - Jugoslovenska Armija (Yugoslav Army) , it changed later name to JNA.
great video
what could have been my friends, what could have been......
Yugoslavia was also making a new fighter plane called the Novi Avion
This was to be better than T90
More Yugoslavia content! Under-covered country here on youtube for sure!
At 7 minutes, which video game is that where the tank moves?
Wargame Red Dragon
Tell us about Novi Avion
Yugoslav tank M 84 is similar to the Soviet/Russian T 72 but not the same because yugoslavia purchased a plans for T 72 from Russia however there was no know how with the paper, how to build such a tank, that's why yugoslav guys needed to figured out a lot of things, during that period they also changed a lot of things in tank including engine, electronics, armor, etc. Parts for the M 84 was manifactured in many different companies across yugoslavia in today different counties, that's why was development of a tank M 84 doomed after 1991 yugoslavia case to exists. Everything after 1991 was just some modifications, but nothing significant.
How fast it could go in reverse?
Not as Fast as the T-64.
@@1sick88lx1 wow it can't beat 4km/h. I think you mean the t-80
Croatian m95 degman is final version of project Vihor
There is an irony in the whole story the production of the components in different countries within yugoslavia although there probably was some pork barrel policies in some of the dispersal of components on the face of it showed what the country united could do. Yet it counted for nothing as it unravelled and the specimens in the constituent countries then where modified differently hence in effect evolved distinctly and none of the successors have been able to build a MBT although it's questionable if they are worth the effort when anti tank missles can neutralise them so effectively...
Anyone else get the feeling the chinese later got hold of these designs? they look like today's type-96/ type-99 tanks.
Well I learned something there very interesting. It was very stupid of the Serbians to leave thier protoypes in Croatia and Slovenia they should have moved them when tensions where brewing.
At the time it was unimportant since they estimated to take over Zagreb in two weeks..or was it two months...aaanyways,Serbs didn't count in the possibility of losing.
Put more on Yugoslavia weapon
Did Yugoslavia ever consider swedish or swiss Tanks? I mean technically they were all neutral.
videogame?? 4:06
wargame red dragon
@@abiski8851 THANKS
The balkanisation of Yugoslavia is a tragedy. Just up and chose irrelevance when they were 1 of 5 countries in earth that could make tanks and aircraft and ammunition themselves.
That is the problem. Some countries and organizations did not like competition and had their own geostrategic plans.
Unfortunately, the basic mentality of the people turned out to be very primitive. The excuse that we somehow had an external enemy that wanted us destroyed is a mindless one. Everyone has enemies and competitors, but the people in ex-Yugoslavia were each other's worst enemies.
Turns out having many distinct nations and 3 different religions in one country isn't good for stability
@@davorjuric1609 true. I believe the YU was a noble idea, however the nations composing it were not up to task.
@@poldi2233 pa to su i zapadnjaci htjeli, da nas podjele i usade mrznju. Sve prije toga su mogli da nam ne kazem sta, i dalje stojim pri tome da smo Balkanci, mi , jako bistri ljudi i pametni, sposobni koji i dalje drze do sebe i tradicije. Za razliku od ovih bjelosvjetskih klovnova
Samo da izdrze!sto Kaze onaj oficir u partizanskom filmu!😅😂😂
M84 was much better than T72.. for example M84 in all versions have meteorological sensor,modern range finder,fire control unit.. first Russian T72 with meteorological sensor was on T72BA in early 2000s.. when M84 was made,there is few tans with modern electronics,even western tanks had coincidence rangefinder.. Leopard 1,American M60.. you had to calculate how much you need to move your barrel to compensate some stuff or intercept other tank.. in M84 you just had to aim and shot.. In 90s they had so many casualties just because we didn't have ERA.This tank had all modern German sensors like Leopard 2.. If we need to compare,its somewhere between leopard 2A5 and 2A6..also at that time Leopard 2 still had ammo in tank turret...
Hello from Serbia🇷🇸
Haven't heard about M-95 Degman?
Watch the last 3 minutes
Lmao, the way they just put a square piece of sheet metal over the back of the T-34s in order to make them look like Panzers. Its like slapping some red Jupol over your Yugo and telling people its a Fiat
If Yugoslavia would't have disintegrated, we would have Mechs today. Oh well.
Topic related, yes it would have received updates, possibly would be replaced likely similar to the Russian timeline like the T14, but earlier. And with a actual working budget unlike the Russian one.
Balkan people don't use robots, they use magic
@@teslashark bosniaks: carpets
Serbs: Accordions
Croats: Sarma
I'm sceptical, those are mostly goal statistics, i highly doubt if they'd actually manage to achieve all the numbers yet keep combat reliability.
Like the "80% ERA protection" which in reality was closer the 25-30%
I also think that 600mm pen would likely be 450-500mm pen, and it's own armor to also have lower values in reality, along with the horse power.
Regardless, tanks aren't only about hard factors but soft factors too, and I do think it would be a competitive tank due to those, just not in the way unrealistic tank fans would think it would.
They don't know what tech was manufacturing in Yug.and many other things ... Probably they don't know that we had our own PC.
Well, it's no forgotten because it was anything special or even good.
@@23GreyFox that's your opinion
@@mitedupev7956 And the opinion of everyone ells outside the Balkan area.
@@23GreyFox when you had typewriters we had computers in Yugoslavia,homemade
@@mitedupev7956 Lol, good joke. I mean you tried to produce several home computers, but nothing was really successful (or you think less than 1000 units is some great number, not a single Yugoslavian producer ever reached that number). At least compared what we had. At least the quality was better than your cars, which is not surprising because you had to import most micro chips.
Hmmmm....I m from Bosnia and Vihor was used together wht M84 in Bosnian war one thing I can tell you M84 was more dangerous then Vihor but RPG 7 F...k them up ...I was at war in Bosnia can u tell me how is it possible that they use Vihor if was not made or get in service
Kaj pričaš ti,nijedan vihor ni degman nikada nije bio u borbi .
Yugoslavia was too strong for Germany 🇩🇪 France and UK so they didn't want another Russia in Europe
How many grenade launcher you want? YES
you forgot to mention croatian m-84 variant
There are ones near the end
You can thank Germany for Yugoslavias disintegration.
Anyways, this project looks like an enormously improved upon t72. Im sure it would perform, seeing the angles on this beast.
Indeed and they got away with it and messed up Europe again in 2015
germany? had nothing to do with the break up of yugoslavia it was a pure inside break up
@@nikolabakich9709
*long sigh* Nobody knows modern history, it seems. Nothing happens "spontaneously", unless its funded and supported (this, by the way, is also true for the whole Orange Revolution in Ukraine, except due to a different "benefactor").
Google Quadra/Penta/Hexagonale, and try to figure out whos domination would be at stake, if any of these actually succeeded. While google will not tell you the whole story, i will give you a little hint: Germany was the first country to recognize the new republics existence, even before Yugoslavia broke apart. Connected the dots yet?
Disclaimer: i will NOT get into details - a comment section of a utub video is not the place for such discussions.
wargame red dragon footage makes me laugh a lil
t-34s playing german tanks somehow feels historical doesn't it
when american tanks play german tanks it's not working at all
Srbija i Hrvatska su kompatibilne i sposobne da naprave odlican tenk koji bi izvozili i uzimali lovu..kad bi bilo pameti.
Srbija i Hrvatska Kompatibilne?! Malo morgen!
@@Sabbatai-Zevi-1666 Imas neki argument? I M84 je pravljen u kooperaciji, zasto ne bi i neki savrseniji?
Sposobne da, kopatibilne ne. Na zalost.
we can do it, but we won't. We in Croatia will just buy tanks from the west or probably some of them will be produced locally. Unfortunately we are in different alliances. Croatia, Slovenia, are in NATO, and Serbia is with Russia and Belarus..
@@TheAstralftw heeeej luka, what about north korea, a?
just another of many t72 variants... People here are exaggerating like its a M1A2 SEP
Effective armour of 600 mm.....Against...heat.....what? and this tank was approved. id approve it if that was 600 against kinetic rounds but heat? that should be like 1000mm at least for this era. Major fault there. thats maybe equivilent to a T-72A.
They make better AK’s than Russia….
SRBIJA
You can not destroy a M70… with out doing it on purpose
Well I don’t think it would be able to compete with Abrams and leopard2A5 + it would be on par with all models of T72, certainly everything made in China, and early T80 models would I want to be the commander of a M91 vs a British or French tank, the answer is no the capabilities of true western tanks out class even the M91 which is at its core a T72
Good luck explaining that to the delusional Serbian copers in the comments.
The western bias is strong in this comment
@@playoffmodesp2536 Real life is western biased. Literally every time western and eastern tech clashed since WW2, the western tech proved to be superior.
@@nikolakaravida9670 untrue, bay of pigs, Angola, Rhodesia, South Korea, Vietnam, Syria
3bm32 would punch through that thing like butter. Sorry but that 600mm armour whouldv been for kinetic and it might be an. acceptable(not good) number. 1000mm heat minimal at least. 3bm60 nevermind new ammunition(that isnt being used in ukraine and just being stockpiled) like vaccume 1 and 2 have over 1000mm pen from kinetic rounds. not heat. and its always easier to stop chemical than kinetic. Russia also has tandem charge heat warheads. meaning thier armour is usless against that as well. Byond that it would been shit on by any t-90M or BVM of today. in the early 2000s maybe at best. because russia stopped development for nearly 15 years. but even then they had T-80U and T-90. and T-72B series all absolutely outmatching this thing in everything save for engine power. (other than the T-80).
Thank God yugoslavia fell apart!
I wish the same for your country, whatever it is
@@vickoslavkovic2593 Yugoslavia was never a country. It was a union. A union is not a country. Am from Slovenija.
Ok fascist
@@barbarapitenthusiast7103 So if you dont want to live in a communishit with idiots like you, youre now a faschist? Thats quite a stretch.
Please don't say JNA, just say YPA. It hurts ears
How is YPA any easier.
@@rd-gi6jw Why Pe ay
@@yugoslavia_operator128 I'd prefer that in its original spelling, I mean "Je En A" - but I strongly doubt an English native speaker could spell it in an acceptable way 😂
@@chrisdowell5976 there's no e in jna
@@chrisdowell5976 yes it's like brutal because we say letter as they are, j for example is just j not ge
challenger2 and Abrams have at least double the armour protection. so no , this tank could not keep up with the west.
that's about everything those two tanks have, they have worse speed, weigh more (thank the armor), worse gun and in general were bigger, western tanks are the DIRECT opposite of eastern tanks: slow but big ball armor, while the eastern are more mobility over armor
My Source: I made it up
@@Lazar-ox5bddon’t know what you are smoking but the west definitely do not have worst guns and depends on the tank but not worst speeds. Eastern tanks usually have lower weight but also their engine power is much lower, only the t80 series is an exception. The west also have much better transmissions. While firepower the guns are the same but the west has much better ammo.
@@profesercreeper remember when I replied?
An Eastern Block tank so good, we almost didn't laugh at it.
Nato tested warsaw pact tanks and they didnt laugh when they found out they were Just as good and in many cases even better than their nato counterparts.
It would have been able to compete with Soviet designs. Not with NATO ones.
How is that possible? The Soviet T-80 from the late 80s was superior to the western-designed tanks back in the early 90s!
Francis is delusional person, please give us some data regarding what you base your opinion on
Bullsheet
M..84 prvi tenk sa nisansko spravo sa lasserom..
Croats call that tank- Degman not Vihor and that tank is better then Vihor. That made factory Đuro Đaković in Croatia.Today they make a Patria vehicle and they Will have now Job with Bradley vehicle
We buy 1 700 Tow-2 rockets for Bradley.Korea have licence for K-2 that is a Abrams tank
its a upgraded version
We all see new smart T-72M+T-84 M how st.JAVELIN burn that tanks.We all see in action T-9O ARMATA&other russia tanks in war in UKRAINE,VIHOR will got same thing when st.JAVELIN catch him!
T-90 Armata.... what? Some fictional new tank?
@@23GreyFox you don't see what is destroy in war in UKRAINE?T-90&ARMATA are destroy with st.JAVELIN&suicide drons better watch on youtube or official UKRAINE defence
Rpg 7 killed more tanks in ukraine than javelins could ever dream of