Blender 3.5 vs Zbrush 2023 | High Poly Performance

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  • Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 98

  • @koraysatiroglu1938
    @koraysatiroglu1938 Год назад +5

    For those who wonder, its around 15mil in 3DCoat (both voxel and surface) where I can go up to 25 mil in Blender.

    • @LHK-art
      @LHK-art Год назад +1

      3d coat is a much more powerful dyntopo comparing to blender's dyntopo (that lags at around 2mil if dyntopo on). So in blender where it needs 25 mil multires for the detail it probably only needs 2-3 mil in 3d coat. In 3d coat I constantly optimize the mesh through out the sculpting process I rarely need over 3 mil for a connected mesh.

  • @HAWXLEADER
    @HAWXLEADER Год назад +8

    One thing I noticed that is really critical!
    Blender might have lagged at 25 mil but it completed the stroke, In ZBrush it looks like the old blender where it would skip to where the mouse pointer was in each rendering frame.
    The circle is not round in zbrush XD.
    Otherwise yeah zbrush is faster, as a dedicated tool should be!

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +3

      Oh, you’re right!

  • @joebuehrer
    @joebuehrer Год назад +2

    I just ran the same test on my Mac Mini with the 1st gen Apple Silicone. At 12 mil polys Blender was still running pretty smooth. I don't use the clay brush hardly ever so that didn't bother me. All my other brushes still ran great. At 50 mil it was still running pretty okay but still struggled most of the time.

  • @thanatosor
    @thanatosor 7 месяцев назад +1

    Wait for Blender 4.1 vs ZBrush 2024 😂

  • @ilkhomyuldashev97
    @ilkhomyuldashev97 Год назад +9

    I choose Blender over Zbrush only for 1 reason.. the reason is: I dont buy ZBrush Plan yet
    But maybe after 3 5 years Blender will be the same as ZBrush in polys

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      I hear ya… Blender is great!

    • @danee4429
      @danee4429 Год назад

      Blender's updates outside of LTS releases are often surprisingly dynamic.@@AbatuBlouu

    • @FlowerPower3000
      @FlowerPower3000 Год назад

      no need... after 3 5 years AI will make every art and 3d with animation

    • @emanu1674
      @emanu1674 Год назад

      @@AbatuBlouu The hell are you talking about? Blender 4.0 just came out and 4.1 is expected to come out in march 2024. In 2025, we'll be half way through to Blender 5.0. I think you meant to say "Zbrush" ain't getting new features until 2025?

  • @Jackripster69
    @Jackripster69 Год назад +3

    Clay strips at 25m faces with 2% spacing is a bit laggy for me on Blender going super fast, but for what i consider a normal pace its fine. Other brushes were smooth.

  • @zedeon6299
    @zedeon6299 Год назад +3

    Have u tried applying the multires and then adding it again? In my experience the higher subdivision level the laggier it get, so base mesh with 1m poly with 2 subdivision perform better than 1k poly with 7 level of subdivision , u could always rebuild (reconstruct) the subdivision

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      That’s a great idea. I’ll give it a try

    • @LHK-art
      @LHK-art Год назад +2

      A video from outgang channel did a comparison, it is true, you can get better performance out of multires by managing a good balance between the base mesh and subd level.

  • @aleph-tav
    @aleph-tav Год назад +14

    It's not the tool - it's the artis and skillset you develop. Don't get caught in this rat race, focus on developing your skill with the tool you can afford and want to use.

    • @JohnDough-e2u
      @JohnDough-e2u 8 месяцев назад +4

      It's also the tool, as the video shows. The tool can get in the way of your creativity if it's slowing down to the point of being unusable.

    • @aleph-tav
      @aleph-tav 8 месяцев назад

      @@JohnDough-e2u You are correct my friend, I just feel like select one and GO GO GO - takes a long time to develop skills don't get caught in the noise. But you have a valid point.

  • @matsy7450
    @matsy7450 Год назад +2

    will there finally be significant improvements in blender 4.0?🤷‍♂

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +1

      I hope so!

    • @LHK-art
      @LHK-art Год назад

      They are reworking the dyntopo which will have better performance, you can download a branch in experimental "branch" section.

  • @mr.j7899
    @mr.j7899 Год назад +2

    Will Zbrush release a beta that features a completely easy and modern UI? I think they should as it will generate more revenue especially for beginners. While still keeping the old UI for people who are already used to using it.

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      I think they will now that Maxon owns Zbrush. But what you said would be key. Keeping the old ui for too

    • @mr.j7899
      @mr.j7899 Год назад +2

      @@AlHowell Hope so too. I often hear the reason why people don't use ZBrush (aside from its awful, awful pricing) is because of the clunkiness of the UI. I get that it's an old software that went through the test of time to become what it is today, but still. Why Edit Mode is still not the default?!?
      But despite all that, I still love it and I accept its flaws. Nothing can beat it in terms of sculpting. And also... ctrl+z on steroids. (undo history)

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +1

      @@mr.j7899 “why is edit mode not the default?” Lol! I know right?!

    • @mmmuck
      @mmmuck Год назад

      Zbrush needs an overhaul but if you're looking for that probably a good idea to try substance modeler

    • @zues3663
      @zues3663 11 месяцев назад

      just learn zbrush and dont worry about the ui, as with anything new your brain will adapt. notice the demand for a new ui is coming from absolute beginners and not professionals

  • @RobertSanta-v9m
    @RobertSanta-v9m Год назад +12

    The problem here is that you're using multires. With regards to sculpting, it's just the worst. You're automatically going to take a performance and memory hit before you even lay down your first strokes. Blender's implementation of multires still needs massive optimization.
    That said, you CAN get much higher poly counts in Blender and produce far more detailed sculpts if you remember the following things.
    1. Hardware is always going to be your biggest bottleneck. More RAM and a faster CPU/GPU combo can make all the difference. ZBrush is more scalable because the 2.5D pixol is designed to be less hardware dependent. You can own a potato PC and still get results with multi-million poly counts. Other non-MAXON sculpting apps demand more memory and computational power since they're representationally 100% 3D.
    For my part, using Blender alone, I can get it up to about 50mil triangles comfortably. After that, it becomes too slow to work with. (I'm using a 13900k i9 and a RTX 4080 with 64GB). On my older i9-7920x with a 1080ti, I could do about 25mil triangles.
    2. Bypass multi-res altogether. It's helpful, but too slow to be practical under certain circumstances. Using strict subdivision or dyntopo will always yield better performance and/or apparent results.
    3. Subdivide only as necessary. That's just a common sense tip, if a bit old school. Until you've squeezed out every last drop from your current SDS level, do not move up one more.
    4. Don't start from a single sphere or cube. Yes. It's good for certain things like heads, but it's not the smartest approach. Blocking out your character with simple booleaned primitives is more efficient. It will yield better results overall since you can weed out silhouette issues early on. Blocking also Lets you visualize your model more clearly and add crucial details before you even drop in a single stroke of sculpted detail. Sculpting can be used to block in a form, but it's always more efficiently applied for adding in detail once you already have that blocked out base in place first.
    5. Use dyntopo instead. Multires is slow, but strict (Catmull Clark) subdivision is inefficient. How often to you sculpt in tons of detail to the back of a head compared to the front? Strictly subdividing, you're adding in detail uniformly - even to places where it's useless. Using dyntopo, you're only adding detail where you need it and when.
    6. Rough, retopo, and THEN add detail. If you're not going to use blocking techniques, this is a key strategy. Helpful even if you are. Compare this to 2D art. If the rough or block out is your "scribble" then the early stage retopo you giving that scribble a more definite form from which to add further detail. That early stage retopo will have better defined topology which, in turn, gives you the ability to add detail appropriately, more evenly, and with less surface rippling.
    7. Invest a few buck and buy Exoside QuadRemesher. Seriously. Native remeshing is okay, but slow and not always as efficient as you will want. Voxel remeshing has its place, but your results will vary. Too low of a resolution and you miss crucial details. Too high and you add detail where you don't need it. Plus, your topology will be grid-based instead of having a proper edge flow.
    3rd party remeshing addons on Blender Market or Gumroad are okay-ish too, but Exoside's QuadRemesher is 100% going to be your best option. Created by one of the co-developers of ZBrush's own ZRemesher, you know exactly what to expect. Fast, efficient, and produces some amazing results.
    8. Interoperability isn't a dirty word. Yes. The point here is to see if you can use Blender to replace ZBrush. However, IRL, the best path might be the one where multiple apps coexist side-by-side. If you can GoZ or GoB from Blender to ZBrush or 3DCoat, respectively, then don't overlook that option. There will certainly be things that you can do in Blender far easier than either of those too apps. Likewise, those apps will have strengths that Blender won't. If all that you have is just Blender then that's fine. However, if you have the resources then don't overlook the power available by maximizing the tools in your toolbox. It's no different than starting a texture in Substance/3DC and bouncing back and forth to/from Photoshop.
    9. Use references. Sounds obvious, but having a starting point can help you pick out key areas of detail early on. Free form sculpting has its limits. A failure to plan is a plan for failure. You'll get more apparent detail out a mesh that's planned than one that's simply put together in the moment.
    10. Detail isn't always about poly count. We always talk about high poly count sculpting as if it has something to do with detail. That's probably the wrong way to think about it. Put those extra polygons to use there they matter. If it changes the silhouette or improves deformation in any way, that's where your poly detail should go. If your only reason for adding extra polys is so that you can add in surface details like skin pores, well, there are other/better ways to do that. Surface details such as skin pores won't affect the silhouette or the ability of that mesh to deform, animate. Map-based detail is more efficient.
    11. How much detail do you REALLY need? Just because I can sculpt in 3DCoat with 400mil polys or ZBrush with 1bil doesn't mean that I even need a fraction of that detail irl. Practically, that's the sort of detail that you will end up retopoing down or dumping out to a map when performance is key. You're ALWAYS going to optimize - especially if you work with game models, but even for films. When was the last time you saw a game character with 400mil polys?
    Even pre-rendering with a render farm, there's no such thing as unlimited detail. The detail you think that you see is more important than the detail actually in that mesh. Anybody who's seen meshes coming out of game studios or animation houses like Pixar knows the value of optimization and doing more with less; No person viewing your model or playing your game will care if you have true poly pores.
    IRL, you need fewer polys than you think that you do. What you want is the ability to use more polys, but the restraint to use do more with less. Blender is up to snuff for production work. Easily.
    Even with a slower PC, you can still get great performance out of Blender. It all comes down to strategy.

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      Thanks for the thoughts. Sorry, no way I can respond to all of that

    • @araleeyo16
      @araleeyo16 Год назад

      great opinion!

    • @dinotabakovic6437
      @dinotabakovic6437 Год назад

      Very well, thank you 🍀

    • @danee4429
      @danee4429 Год назад +1

      This is THE comment! Actual information where most people just post rhetoric. Thankyou!

    • @thanatosor
      @thanatosor 7 месяцев назад

      Skills & experience matter.
      Thanks for all sharing!

  • @joshhockey9
    @joshhockey9 Год назад

    I don't currently do scultping in Blender other than as a way to tweak meshes, so I don't have the experience to say much. Just experimenting with a sphere of 25.16 million faces I noticed it slams well past 16gb of RAM and thrashes the disk really hard. We really shouldn't be using less than 32GB of RAM anymore if we have the option, and it looks like you need 64GB to to sculpt at 25 million comfortably.
    That's not going to be the full story of course, CPU and GPU will make a big difference, but it's easy to see that RAM is the first major hurdle.

  • @abdulkhalilsalik
    @abdulkhalilsalik Год назад

    Great comparison! One thing you may have forgotten is to check the RAM usage in the task manager.

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      Oh you are right! I definitely should have

  • @glenfoxh
    @glenfoxh Год назад

    This is the most amazing thing about ZBrush and it's speed. It is CPU based. No GPU acceleration. And yet, faster than most anything out there, even with GPU acceleration used with them.

  • @ProjectAtlasmodling
    @ProjectAtlasmodling Год назад +4

    The real question should not be how many pollys the software can do but how many you actually need

    • @redash4239
      @redash4239 9 месяцев назад

      isnt it part of learning yourself rather than asking others?

    • @ProjectAtlasmodling
      @ProjectAtlasmodling 9 месяцев назад

      @@redash4239?

  • @Ahoy123
    @Ahoy123 Год назад

    i hope u show us the ram usage too

  • @KhurramShahzad-id7qy
    @KhurramShahzad-id7qy Год назад

    Fun fact, blender is true 3D while zbrush is 2.5D ish software, and you can do everything (model, sculpt, texture, rig, animate, simulate, light and render etc.) in blender and only sculpt in zbrush, what it is for so there is that. Good comparison though.

  • @jamesgtmoore
    @jamesgtmoore Год назад

    Nice comparison but I don't feel the need to go above 1 million polygons in Blender for my sculpts as there seems to be enough polys at this level for tiny details such as skin pores. I'm not a AAA artist though.

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      Yeah, It really just depends on your needs and honestly, your workflow. I do stylized characters and 10 million MAX is great for me. But it's a different story if I am doing 2 characters and a scene etc.

  • @janvollgod7221
    @janvollgod7221 Год назад +5

    Zbrush use another method to calculate point in space. Blender stores the object as is, full data. Zbrush just the freakin picture of it hahaha..funny but true. As i said so often, for stylize stuff, you will never need Zbrush, but concept, models for vector painting, high detail, i go with zbrush with no problems up 60 Millions, everything smooth with 7950x Ryzen. Zbrush use cpu only, while Blender use GPU. The good thing, zbrush runs on notebook with shit gpu, but good cpu, very well, if you have at least 16 gig of ram. I was curious to try it out on the surface laptop of my wife. Fast intel cpu rocks, while intel gfx, good enough for minecraft.
    The question is, do you need such high detail on a physical surface. You can do very high detail with 500k and then bake the hell out of it in substance painter. Saw last week a dragon from a friend, could not believe this thing was under 500k polys.
    Anyway.. thanks for the honest comparison.

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +1

      Yep, great point about baking

  • @konradgergely7995
    @konradgergely7995 Год назад

    Hi mate, you are mentioning "this is my setup" which I would like to compare to my PC. Can you please go in details? At least gpu cpu ram? Thx

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +1

      Ryzen 7 2700x
      Gpu:2080
      RAM: 16

    • @konradgergely7995
      @konradgergely7995 Год назад

      Awesome, thx a lot for the reply @@AlHowell

  • @FlowerPower3000
    @FlowerPower3000 Год назад

    Push no limit of quality your art) Now you understand why Zbrush the best))

  • @felixxcatus
    @felixxcatus 7 месяцев назад

    and you're just sculpting a sphere, don't get me started on doing bool operations on sculpts in blender... I usually make a cup of tea and come back to see if blender crashed yet
    but the great thing about blender is that I'm unemployed so I don't need to use zbrush, no, I mean I can do most things while staying inside blender like rendering, compositing, etc

  • @monkeytheory4718
    @monkeytheory4718 11 месяцев назад

    Blender is great. But when sculpting. This is the reason why I transferred to zbrush.

  • @Genshi-studio
    @Genshi-studio Год назад +2

    Whit remesh blender support around 120m pollys

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      It depends on your system.

    • @LHK-art
      @LHK-art Год назад

      probably not 120 mil poly connected mesh

    • @Genshi-studio
      @Genshi-studio Год назад +2

      @@LHK-art 120 million confirmed connected polygons. but this only works if you subdivide the mesh inside sculpt mode with the remesh option, if you use modifiers like subdivision or multires to increase polygons this doesn't work anymore.

    • @LHK-art
      @LHK-art Год назад

      @@Genshi-studio I see, 25 mil is my workable state, it takes too long to remesh if it gets too big. Usually around 6 mil is fine for most of my details, in 3d coat I probably need less than 2 mil.

  • @xylionstudio
    @xylionstudio Год назад +1

    This comparison is to be seen

  • @creativeearthian1702
    @creativeearthian1702 Год назад

    Blender at 6M is about as fast as Nomad Sculpt on my 3.5 years old Android tablet

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +1

      Dang, That's crazy

    • @creativeearthian1702
      @creativeearthian1702 Год назад

      @AlHowell Nomad is a gem, to say the least. Just 10$ for the app and a decent tablet can do 10M+ sculpts with real time post processing (stuff like SSC, ambient occlusion etc).
      And the M2 iPad can go over 30M polys.
      A few days ago I saw like a pro level looking anime sculpt..done by fingers on $150 phone

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      Wow, it has come so far so fast!

  • @mayronen9643
    @mayronen9643 Год назад +1

    do you actually reach 25 million polygons in sculpts?

    • @ShahzDane
      @ShahzDane Год назад

      its necessary depending on the level of details you really want, subjective to each indv of course, also necessary for polypaint base colors

    • @mayronen9643
      @mayronen9643 Год назад

      @@ShahzDane I see, thanks for the detailed replay!

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      I personally do not. My sculpts are all on the more stylized side of things and for me, less is more

    • @ZephrusPrime
      @ZephrusPrime Год назад +1

      I recently finished a commission where my hi-poly model including base was 180M.

    • @thanatosor
      @thanatosor 7 месяцев назад

      @@ZephrusPrimein blender?

  • @XtremeSk8ter
    @XtremeSk8ter Год назад +6

    I think Blender is great for stylised characters such as Miles from the spider verse but ultra realistic characters are just impossible without Zbrush.

    • @XtremeSk8ter
      @XtremeSk8ter Год назад +1

      @@AbatuBlouu I didn’t mean to bash Blender. I personally use both in my workflow. I simply think that “insane” details cannot currently be achieved with Blender alone.

    • @sichibukailaw6418
      @sichibukailaw6418 Год назад

      If you want realistic characters there are tons resources to just simply generate those character instead of sculpting them. Sculpting realistic characters is gonna make less sense over the years specially when with generated realistic characters you already have at least 50 percent of the character done. You might just wanna change things like appearance which is all procedural at this point.

    • @coloradoing9172
      @coloradoing9172 Год назад +2

      @@XtremeSk8ter Lol total nonsense. There are thousands of videos online of people making realistic characters with Blender. Absolutely nothing prevents you from doing that.

    • @XtremeSk8ter
      @XtremeSk8ter Год назад

      @@coloradoing9172 I stated earlier that I use both programs in my workflow. My biggest gripe with Blender is that it cannot handle high poly counts and unless you use multi res in a weird way you won’t get much further with your character. Things like pores etc are really hard to do in blender (even with multires) because it just isn’t optimised for those insane poly counts although I’m super confident that the Blender team is going to address this sooner or later.
      The people you see making those realistic character on RUclips have extremely powerful computers. Most people (like me) do not.

    • @emanu1674
      @emanu1674 Год назад +1

      Impossible? 10 seconds of youtube search shows you are wrong in the wrongest way possible

  • @igorpavloff
    @igorpavloff Год назад

    whats is ur pc specs?

  • @IsaacFranklin-b6n
    @IsaacFranklin-b6n Год назад

    hey

  • @IsaacFranklin-b6n
    @IsaacFranklin-b6n Год назад

    Hey dad its isaac

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад

      Hi son!! You found me huh?

  • @dubwork
    @dubwork 9 месяцев назад

    zBrush 2d vs Blender 3d 🙅‍♂

  • @nolongeravailable108
    @nolongeravailable108 10 месяцев назад

    Lol, ZBrush is 1000% better than Blender, It's not even fair to compare them

  • @Ipsissimus
    @Ipsissimus Год назад +7

    Blender is an absolute nightmare. There's always unfixable issues that lead to more unfixable issues.

    • @Matthi508
      @Matthi508 Год назад +2

      I have both but i dont now why ,zbrush feels like a nightmare even the camera movement is a horror and the shortcuts for Move omg ☠️☠️☠️

    • @emanu1674
      @emanu1674 Год назад

      Like what? Sounds like bullcrap to me

  • @xylionstudio
    @xylionstudio Год назад +1

    Nothing will overcome Zbrush. Why are they infatuated. Nothing compares to Zbrush's solution. Suffer Blender you will not be able to cover everything in this world

    • @AlHowell
      @AlHowell  Год назад +1

      Lol! 😂

    • @janvollgod7221
      @janvollgod7221 Год назад +1

      You said something very important and true. 'not be able to cover everything' and this is what they should somehow accept. I love the raise of blender, many new features every month, and also a ton of plugins, some helpful, some just produce clutter at the end of the day. It looks to me, that they are on some trip, pressured to make new things. Some very old and important things were not fixed and improved. Like the memory management, instancing, caching. There was an attempt to do something similar, like in the wonderful software clarisse ifx. Then this branch stalled. There are many other things, but this would hit the sleep button here.
      I would like to see Blender, focus more on a core purpose, and then make this core as good as it can be.
      BTW.. if you want to see, how it looks like, moving Billions of Polygons, then try Clarisse ifx. There is a free learnig version. Great software for massive lookdev and kitbash projects.

    • @ProjectAtlasmodling
      @ProjectAtlasmodling Год назад +1

      @@janvollgod7221 they do work on core problems people just don't talk about them as much and what you specifically think is a major issue may be more specific to how you work.

    • @ProjectAtlasmodling
      @ProjectAtlasmodling Год назад +1

      Just because it may not be the best overall dose not mean it's not the best for the job.
      Not every job needs the best tool they need the right tool. Several companies have decided that blender's sculpting is the right tool

    • @coloradoing9172
      @coloradoing9172 Год назад

      @@ProjectAtlasmodling Blender has different devs that specialize in different areas, from base 3D tools to the render engine and sculpting tools. Resources aren't being "taken away" from other areas of development with these sculpting features. Autodesk and Zbrush fans should be grateful that Blender exists and is putting major pressure on these companies that have monopolized the industry and have had unreasonable prices and business practices for decades.

  • @amenbrother8785
    @amenbrother8785 Год назад

    i thought this video was gon be zbrush hate lol. stand corrected.