Azerbaijan’s televote didnt shock me Tom, it really didnt stick in the mind. If you struggle to hum even a bit of a song its always going to bomb in the televote. The only memorable bit was the most bizarre…..’The Weather! The Weather!’ 😂
Felt really sorry for Brooke. I hadn't warmed to the song through the build up to the shows, but she smashed it and I really liked the performance in the end. My mum loved it too. Come on Ireland 2023!! I want to see them in the final.
I was thinking that the powerful male ballads & dramatic vocals in this semi were favoured by the jury results. There was lots of 6's, 8's & 10's between those particular countries which took up most of points from the combined total. Brilliant analysis & reaction, this was an interesting listen & to work my head around it 👍
Hey Tom, just wanted to thank you for all your wonderful, well-reasoned vid's this ESC season. Hope PED-lockdown isn't too hard for you and hope to see you in Manchester next year!
There is definitely a relationship between Azerbaijan and Israel, Azerbaijan gave Eden 12 points in the tele vote last year in the final. Also when Netta won in 2018 Georgia & Azerbaijan both gave Israel 12 points, im not sure I know the exact reason but there is definitely a vote for Israel in that region at least. As for the televote score from Georgia & Azerbaijan it has to be remembered by the time the phone lines open its going to be 12 pm/1am in these countries on a week day when countries in the east of Europe don't tend to have high voting numbers, in 2014 & 2015 when the voting rules were different Georgia in the SF's had to go 100% jury as their tele vote didn't meet the threshold required to count and in 2015 Azerbaijan had the same issue. Ive heard even an embassy voting in one of these countries can be enough to swing it in these countries.
ah ok very interesting, i didnt know that pattern was there. we dont have too much Azeris here so hopefully one can maybe explain it to us if there is a specific reason other than just liking the sound of the song. another good point about the timing of the semis on a weekday!
I think Michael Ben David is part Georgian? That’s what I read anyway so would explain some televote support from the Caucasus :) great analysis, really enjoyable to listen to 👍
One thing I also noticed in the comment section of Israel’s music video was how many Azerbaijani people fondly commented (80+% of the comments I saw were from Azerbaijan) so there must be some connection between the countries.
@@cathalsheehan9596 there's no connection as far as I know. part of her family came to Israel from Poland and other from north Africa. Since it was a very successful song Georgia probably gave it points just cause people liked it.
San Marino doesnt have a televote because San Marino doesn't have an independent telephone network. It shares italy's. San Marino people can televote but their votes go towards the italian televote.
I love how you said on your jury voting scandal video, your SF2 video will be much shorter.. and then your SF2 video is 3 seconds shorter than your scandal video. You are awesome
@@ESCTom Dont change anything! Don't ever get fancy graphics (the magnets are stellar!!), don't make your videos shorter, don't change your fistpumps when your faves get 12 points, and don't change your bleh bleh bleh sign off! My wife and I always watch, and do your sign off with you.
Actually as an Azerbaijani citizen ı’m really thankful for Nadir, this year that, which represented really, really very well our country 🇦🇿 we are proud of him and his Voice🙏🏻 it is the first time in a history that, a country goes to final directly from the Juries not televote. There were some people all around the Europe who really accepted and appreciated the song itself but i guess it doesnt impact so much around the Europe. I personally liked the song’s deep melody but the problem was that it was so much for Eurovision stage, too melodically and the dramatic one. Lots of people from Azerbaijan said that there can be chosen another song for his voice which is perfectly suites him. Another problem is lasting over 9 year, is that our songs written by Swedish and Danish composers. They are not completely into our culture and music they don’t really knows how to write a song for Azerbaijan and all the songs written by them previously, then every year they offer these songs to Azerbaijanian delegation. When Nadir himself talked about his song he said that, we already changed the song and added there high note at the end and deep notes added Azeri instruments like balaban. The song basically was nude. Even, music instruments and high notes didn’t help it as much as expected. So as Azerbaijani euro fans we are very sad this year when he got 3 points and 0 points in the grand finale and semi finale. Our delegation should take a serious steps for the next year, maybe we need delegation change or at least strategy changements. Without changes we have so low changes to get higher points year by year. We already started a Champaign for delegation and strategy changes for Eurovision. I hope we will do the best next year and will come back stronger as we were between 2008-2013’s 🇦🇿🙏🏻
Joe from Taipei here. Yeah. Felt bad for north macedonia as well considering what happened to them in 2019 as well. Btw, loved Leslie Roy’s song last year.
Just a thought? OGAE second chance. Do you follow that? Your opinions? For me, it's a lovely way of continuing the Eurovision journey beyond May and, absolutely, I have my favourites. You once made a suggestion of San Marino of being the official hosts of runners-up and that really thrilled me - I think that's a fabulous idea. Can you just imagine the hype amongst the community? For me, there are four big songs this year - I won't disclose right now but I'm rooting for them just as much as I did songs in the grand final.
I follow it a little. Honestly they Never choose the songs I like ever. They always choose what seems to me to be random ones. Like Norway chose northkid this year. My top 4 national final non qualifiers all didn’t get picked
@@ESCTom I'd totally agree with you, the choices seem really random, and that's perhaps where OGAE countries only have a handful or less members.... For me, the four standouts are: Sweden MEDINA In i dimman (Swedish/Ethnic bop) Lithuania Lolita Zero Not Your Mother (pure Eurovision absurdity) Slovenia Batista Cadillac Mim Pravil (this was a slice of retro- Northern Soul!) but above all.... Portugal SYRO Ainda Nos Tamos. The staging at the Festival de Cancao final was STUNNING - lights, cameras, costumes, vocals, everything. This would have been a real moment on the Eurovision stage
What strikes me most is how much uptempo songs can be penalised. Having said that, Spain were third with Juries in the grand final, so I guess it's about the quality of the entry too. Thanks for another great vid Tom, hope life is good in China :-)
I think Ireland coming 15th is probably the best result we could’ve hoped for, given she was dead last in the odds after the songs came out. We all definitely got carried away with the professional staging and performance, when in reality the song probably wasn’t strong enough or stood out enough. That’s nothing against Brooke though, she was an excellent representative, but it was the 1st song she’s ever written. I just hope more seasoned Irish performers will step forward and submit something high quality and unique (not Nicky Byrne btw) If the Irish delegation do bring back the late late show song selection format, I just hope to see a higher quality of entries and more diverse genres. Let us see what is out there and don’t just submit the most bland basic pop that is deemed ‘suitable for Eurovision’
Wow was he really that low? I got on board so late with that song but I can’t really remember that season that well cos I was in the middle of my nightmare Masters at the time. But together ended up as my number 3. I do remember that that was the semi of super death though
Regarding the jury wildcard in the late 2000s, I wasn’t a superfan back then but I was acutely aware of the massive amount of complaints about the 100% televote resulting in “not respectable” songs doing well back then and for a while a large number of fans were begging for some form of jury element to be reintroduced, I think they added the jury wildcard as a form of weird compromise but obviously it wasn’t enough and we got the 50/50 system in 2009 after every man and their dog outside of the Russosphere complained about them winning with that dogsh1t song. It’s only been the last few years where poptimism has taken over musical discourse that we’re getting the more younger fans whining about juries punishing the fun songs. Trust me, I remember the 2000s and Eurovision’s reputation was rock bottom in the televote era. I don’t want to go back to those days.
100% agree. 3 of the 4 worst winners ever in my opinion were in the 00s I remember as a kid it was such a big deal to have televotes, like it was this exciting futuristic thing that was going to make juries obsolete, but i agree that 2008 win was a turning point
This is my opinion but: I wouldn’t consider neighbourly voting as something different from or that has less value than normal voting. Especially when we’re talking about televote, people from North Macedonia would likely vote for Vladana because they’re familiar with the Montenegrin sound, not because she’s inherently from Montenegro. Same thing with Brooke, of course she would have taken high points from Australia and the UK since they all share similar music industries and she is from Northern Ireland, but that doesn’t mean that her points taken from these countries make her score less valid. Their songs were tailored to a certain public and it did the job. Also sometimes neighbours and countries with similar music industries don’t vote for the song, so I don’t think it’s fair to say things like “if we don’t count the neighbour voting, this country actually did worse than this other country”
yea i get your point. I think in terms of optics, it looks better if for example you were to get lots of 3s/4s/5s from other countries, and then a bigger score from your neighbours cos you share cultural sounds in your music industry. Getting a huge bunch of 0s and then a high score from a neighbour just doesnt look as great imo. The top 7 qualifiers got points from everyone
@@ESCTom to be fair I also agree on what you mean here, if I were a country’s delegation I would rather try to gather as many points consistently from different countries rather than target specific countries’ big points. Let’s say I am Switzerland and I chose to send a song in German to target Austria’s and Germany’s 24 points but the song is not sonically accessible to all of Europe. I am likely to miss out on a lot of top 10s and I am not even guaranteed that I will get those 48 points from jury and televote. For me (and I guess also for you it seems) it’s not a good strategy, too risky, but in case those 48 points do come to Switzerland, they are still well earned in the same way as if Switzerland, sending a fairly catchy song, got 1 point from both juries and televote from 24 different countries and none of them from neighbours. They are both 48 points with the same value. The only difference is that we perceive the latter as a better outcome because I, the Swiss delegation, managed to sell my own contestant’s music to a wider audience, which wouldn’t have had easy access to it (which Germany and Austria already have) if not for Eurovision
Circles was never my favourite song but I've bee rooting for North Macedonia in recent years - Tamara in 2019 was amazing, also loved their JESC entries in both 2019 and 2021. 2019 especially Mila Miskov, could easily have been a finalist at adult ESC
yea im also always rooting for 🇲🇰 btw 2 of your comments from a week ago got held back because you had links in them. I have to turn off comment links cos theres too many spammers. I approved both comments now but just be careful if putting a link in to not write the actual address. i didnt want you thinking that id deleted them
@@ESCTom My comments blocked because I had links in them?.. Feck!, Exposed! You finally sussed I've been the pornbot all along lol. No worries, won't link again Tom - that sounds wise :)
Georgia and Azerbaijan actually do vote for Israel pretty consistently. If you look at Azerbaijan in particular, they've given them 12's in the final no fewer than three times (2018, 2021, and 2023 - the middle being the most surprising, since she took it over Russia and Ukraine in both the semi and the final) and have only failed to vote for them once in a final since 2015 (2019, poor dude). They're both pretty close culturally with Israel.
There are strong bilateral relations between Israel and both Georgia and Azerbaijan, for various historical reasons (such as Jewish populations, early recognition of independences, and military support). So the voting patterns in Eurovision between these countries is expected.
I think what explains 10 points to Israel from Georgia and Azerbaijan is the fact that a singer like Michael Ben David would not really be considered lgbt but simply kitsch and they love kitsch. Look at Philip Kirkorov he's very popular in Eastern Europe yet for western standards he might be considered "lgbt". I read a BBC article about that topic but I cannot find it
Spirit of the Night got no jury points. The televote gave them some all from Germany because the dude had German roots. I think the same year Malta got no televote points.
for me it still brain screws me that Azerbaijan got 0 televotes in the semi and Australia got 74, yet in the final Azerbaijan got 3 and Australia got 2
YES! Another possible explanation is that different people watch the semis than the final? Maybe the people who watch the semis are more accepting of Australia? Or maybe some of the SF1 songs cancelled out australia too much?
It must be remembered with Australia while they got 74 points in the televote they didnt come top 3 in any country, it may mean in a final of 24 others songs when the standard is higher its easier for a song that may have come 4-7 in the semi TV to come like 11-14th in the final and if you come 11th-14th you get 0 points.
The only thing I can offer is I voted for Sheldon in the semi but not the final. I thought he deserved a place in the final but prefered other people in the final itself. The second is running order I think sometimes people get so focused on later is better that they forget who you're near can affect you. Australia were between Sweden and the UK who were fifth and sixth in the televote in the final both with points in the high one hundreds range. You wouldn't have thought it was possible with that outfit but maybe being between Cornelia and Sam mean Sheldon got overlooked maybe bloody Oz gave us poms no jury points because they knew we nerfed them 😜.
@@EmoBearRights yeah I agree with all your points. I think we had an underatedly bad running order in between 4th and 2nd place. I can't believe our jury gave UK nothing. Luckily our televote gave you 7
@@lachysims6327 Our jury gave both one of my favourite winners of all time - Zitti E Bouni last year and the one that always wins the poll for being the most iconic of all time - Waterloo no points so yeah sometimes we're represented by idiots. Thank you Oz for the seven televote points in the end we probably need them more than the jury points.
Azerbaijan's song was problematic musically. I listened to all the songs and that was the only one I could never remember, and if that happens (and it's not just for me, I read the same from others) you did something wrong composing the song... his vocals were good of course, and the staging was interesting. Thanks for the interesting analysis!
i do feel like it kind of comes across that the Azerbaijan songs are written from people from other countries, they dont really have enough of a musical identity outside of the duda
I have always felt Austria 2018 did (non-Sweden) jury-bait the best of almost anyone the last decade. Really well-sung, well staged, and catchy radio-pop fusion thst still got some good televotes. What Azerbaijan and Switzerland did this year feels super cheap and tasteless, to me.
yea thats why i really liked austria's entry this year, cos it was a break from their jury BAITING. its a shame that they couldnt realise all its potential
Nah Romania doesnt rly get points from neighbouring countries they dont like us. Except Moldova. Other eastern european or balkan countries dont vote for us. We are usually saved by spain/uk and other places where Romanians emigrated tbh
Azerbaijan for whatever reason just really likes Israeli entries. If you look at the comment section of this years and past years Israeli entry you’ll see tons of comments from Azerbaijanis
Even though us Swedes place a high importance on Eurovision, I don't know how we could have bribed all the juries. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to pay that many people for something that stupid. SVT (Sveriges Television AB) would definitely not pay anyone. SVT literally runs on tax payer money. The Swedish TV licence fee gets taken directly from our taxes since 2019. The Swedish public would be outraged if that money was spent on bribes. Heads would roll in that case, I'm sure. I guess the only way would be if a very rich and crazy private individual decided to pay bribes. I can't think of anyone that might do that. But I don't really keep up with Swedish celebs either.
the Swedish rigging thing is 10000000000000% bullshit, its literally the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Im actually going to do a short video explaining how fucking stupid it is, cos im so annoyed about it
But why why do you think Australia scores so high with the juries no matter the song, and then get humiliated in the final with the televote? And why jurries underscore selective countries, ex Poland , Romania, Moldova, and always give plenty of points to Australia, Sweden, Azerbaigean.
everybody knew Australia was going to do well with the juries, we all said as soon as the song was chosen that it was a jury bait song. Its not "no matter the song", their song last year got nothing. they usually send good quality jury bait songs though Romania/Moldova - those songs are not remotely jury baity. Poland came 7th with the jury
In relation to countries qualifying with a low placing in the odds, Ireland in 2018 was 16th in the odds for it's semi and Albania was 15th and as we know they both qualified.
Ireland was actually 17th on the day of the jury final and were 18th prior to the pre parties. I think the odds arent going to always get it right because in quite afew cases a countries record can influence the bookies, Ireland for instance being last in the bookies this year made no sense especially when you consider the likes of Montenegro, Georgia etc were in the semi and clearly had less of a chance of qualifying, come rehearsals I guess a little dose of reality hit the bookies.
I am sure this has been suggested already, but I'll say it anyway: 1: Remove the juries from the semis, apart from maybe San Marino who doesn't have a choice; 2: Have three - four semis instead of two semis; and 3: Keep the juries in the final. There are several benefits to removing the juries from the semis. It would be much harder for the juries to cheat, and they can't put through songs that the public dislikes. If semis are shorter in length then the songs that are first in the running order don't get so heavily penalised. It would not be so late when the semis end, so more people can stay up and vote. It would also break up any block voting even more. (For example with 3 semis, one Nordic country would be alone. With 4 semis, 3 out of 5 Nordics would be alone). The juries could still vote in the final, for people who like the juries. The juries would have much less time to cheat ahead of the final. Let's say there are 3 televised televote semis on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and the jury final show on the Friday as normal. The juries would only have 1 - 3 days to cheat, since they wouldn't know who was going through to the final before that. As it is now I think the juries have a couple of weeks to cheat in the semis, since they know who they share their semi with for that long. Apologies for the wall of text. I tried to keep it short.
IMO there are 2 main unfortunate results from the jury-cheating: 1. Innocent, non-cheating countries risk missing out on the final, and 2. The public doesn't get to see the songs that they want in the final. It shouldn't be possible for a song that gets zero from the televote to make into the final. (Personally I didn't dislike the Azerbaijan song, but I wouldn't have put it in the top 10).
yea its only happened once so far and aiming for a jury points only qualification is not a strategy that any country wants to do, so it might hopefully just be a once off
I was surprised that Belgium made into the top 10 with the televote, but my biggest surprise was the 12 for San Marino from our jury (and 7 for Israel, the really liked the camp) Israel, Azerbaijan and Georgia are in the same pot for the draw, so I guess they have historically a friendly connection.
If EBU calls out the juries with unusual voting patterns they should stop the cypriotic and greek juries of awarding the 12 points each other. That's exactly the same that was going on this year but is tolerated since decades.
yea the greek cyprus thing is just impossible to manage those juries arent being told to vote anything by HoD or the broadcaster, you literally just cant find 5 people in the entirety of greece or cyprus who wont give the other 12. Same with Azerbaijan and Armenia.
I understand why Sweden would be accused of rigging. That song had a decent hook but it was a very bland, kind of dated feeling pop song. Even the singer herself seemed board preforming it. I know that was her thing but not a great way to connect with an audience. How could it have received loads of 12 points??
well it did equally well with the televote so it seems like quite a large consensus i didnt really vibe with it either but ive seen a lot of people on twitter who were literally obsessed with it
Azerbaijan’s televote didnt shock me Tom, it really didnt stick in the mind. If you struggle to hum even a bit of a song its always going to bomb in the televote. The only memorable bit was the most bizarre…..’The Weather! The Weather!’ 😂
Felt really sorry for Brooke. I hadn't warmed to the song through the build up to the shows, but she smashed it and I really liked the performance in the end. My mum loved it too. Come on Ireland 2023!! I want to see them in the final.
San Marino's staging was just... Wow. It deserved better I feel. They put in so much effort to elevate the song.
I was thinking that the powerful male ballads & dramatic vocals in this semi were favoured by the jury results. There was lots of 6's, 8's & 10's between those particular countries which took up most of points from the combined total. Brilliant analysis & reaction, this was an interesting listen & to work my head around it 👍
Hey Tom, just wanted to thank you for all your wonderful, well-reasoned vid's this ESC season. Hope PED-lockdown isn't too hard for you and hope to see you in Manchester next year!
Thank you Giant! 🥰
Keep up the good work, Tom! ❤
thank you lord raiden 🥰
wow, your videos are so fun and you think of literally everything . keep doing this! :D
There is definitely a relationship between Azerbaijan and Israel, Azerbaijan gave Eden 12 points in the tele vote last year in the final. Also when Netta won in 2018 Georgia & Azerbaijan both gave Israel 12 points, im not sure I know the exact reason but there is definitely a vote for Israel in that region at least.
As for the televote score from Georgia & Azerbaijan it has to be remembered by the time the phone lines open its going to be 12 pm/1am in these countries on a week day when countries in the east of Europe don't tend to have high voting numbers, in 2014 & 2015 when the voting rules were different Georgia in the SF's had to go 100% jury as their tele vote didn't meet the threshold required to count and in 2015 Azerbaijan had the same issue. Ive heard even an embassy voting in one of these countries can be enough to swing it in these countries.
ah ok very interesting, i didnt know that pattern was there. we dont have too much Azeris here so hopefully one can maybe explain it to us if there is a specific reason other than just liking the sound of the song.
another good point about the timing of the semis on a weekday!
@@ESCTom Israel and Azerbaijan have strong business and tourism relationships. This may explain the Azeri warm response to IL.
I think Michael Ben David is part Georgian? That’s what I read anyway so would explain some televote support from the Caucasus :) great analysis, really enjoyable to listen to 👍
Thank you so much 🙏🏻🥰
ah is that it? that would make sense. I was wondering if there was some ethnic connection that I wasnt aware of
@@ESCTom his dad came from Georgia
And I believe the same with Netta in 2018, must explain why both years Georgia gave Israel high points.
One thing I also noticed in the comment section of Israel’s music video was how many Azerbaijani people fondly commented (80+% of the comments I saw were from Azerbaijan) so there must be some connection between the countries.
@@cathalsheehan9596 there's no connection as far as I know. part of her family came to Israel from Poland and other from north Africa.
Since it was a very successful song Georgia probably gave it points just cause people liked it.
San Marino doesnt have a televote because San Marino doesn't have an independent telephone network. It shares italy's. San Marino people can televote but their votes go towards the italian televote.
I love how you said on your jury voting scandal video, your SF2 video will be much shorter.. and then your SF2 video is 3 seconds shorter than your scandal video. You are awesome
ugh, if id put them together, god knows how long it would be 😭😨
@@ESCTom Dont change anything! Don't ever get fancy graphics (the magnets are stellar!!), don't make your videos shorter, don't change your fistpumps when your faves get 12 points, and don't change your bleh bleh bleh sign off! My wife and I always watch, and do your sign off with you.
Actually as an Azerbaijani citizen ı’m really thankful for Nadir, this year that, which represented really, really very well our country 🇦🇿 we are proud of him and his Voice🙏🏻 it is the first time in a history that, a country goes to final directly from the Juries not televote. There were some people all around the Europe who really accepted and appreciated the song itself but i guess it doesnt impact so much around the Europe. I personally liked the song’s deep melody but the problem was that it was so much for Eurovision stage, too melodically and the dramatic one. Lots of people from Azerbaijan said that there can be chosen another song for his voice which is perfectly suites him. Another problem is lasting over 9 year, is that our songs written by Swedish and Danish composers. They are not completely into our culture and music they don’t really knows how to write a song for Azerbaijan and all the songs written by them previously, then every year they offer these songs to Azerbaijanian delegation. When Nadir himself talked about his song he said that, we already changed the song and added there high note at the end and deep notes added Azeri instruments like balaban. The song basically was nude. Even, music instruments and high notes didn’t help it as much as expected. So as Azerbaijani euro fans we are very sad this year when he got 3 points and 0 points in the grand finale and semi finale. Our delegation should take a serious steps for the next year, maybe we need delegation change or at least strategy changements. Without changes we have so low changes to get higher points year by year. We already started a Champaign for delegation and strategy changes for Eurovision. I hope we will do the best next year and will come back stronger as we were between 2008-2013’s 🇦🇿🙏🏻
Joe from Taipei here. Yeah. Felt bad for north macedonia as well considering what happened to them in 2019 as well. Btw, loved Leslie Roy’s song last year.
Yea they’re so unlucky. I want them to get a really lucky break at some point to make up for it
Yeah always rooting for the underdogs. Btw, enjoy the end of lockdown. Runnnnn like Leslie Roy :-)
Lol I think we should make „ikea vacuum cleaner“ a term when Sweden‘s raking up points.
Just a thought? OGAE second chance. Do you follow that? Your opinions? For me, it's a lovely way of continuing the Eurovision journey beyond May and, absolutely, I have my favourites. You once made a suggestion of San Marino of being the official hosts of runners-up and that really thrilled me - I think that's a fabulous idea. Can you just imagine the hype amongst the community? For me, there are four big songs this year - I won't disclose right now but I'm rooting for them just as much as I did songs in the grand final.
I follow it a little. Honestly they Never choose the songs I like ever. They always choose what seems to me to be random ones. Like Norway chose northkid this year. My top 4 national final non qualifiers all didn’t get picked
@@ESCTom I'd totally agree with you, the choices seem really random, and that's perhaps where OGAE countries only have a handful or less members....
For me, the four standouts are:
Sweden MEDINA In i dimman (Swedish/Ethnic bop)
Lithuania Lolita Zero Not Your Mother (pure Eurovision absurdity)
Slovenia Batista Cadillac Mim Pravil (this was a slice of retro- Northern Soul!)
but above all....
Portugal SYRO Ainda Nos Tamos. The staging at the Festival de Cancao final was STUNNING - lights, cameras, costumes, vocals, everything. This would have been a real moment on the Eurovision stage
What strikes me most is how much uptempo songs can be penalised. Having said that, Spain were third with Juries in the grand final, so I guess it's about the quality of the entry too. Thanks for another great vid Tom, hope life is good in China :-)
Ik I’ts weird,but from where did you got these country buttons? 😭 sorry they look so cool
I bought them online in china
I think Ireland coming 15th is probably the best result we could’ve hoped for, given she was dead last in the odds after the songs came out.
We all definitely got carried away with the professional staging and performance, when in reality the song probably wasn’t strong enough or stood out enough. That’s nothing against Brooke though, she was an excellent representative, but it was the 1st song she’s ever written. I just hope more seasoned Irish performers will step forward and submit something high quality and unique (not Nicky Byrne btw)
If the Irish delegation do bring back the late late show song selection format, I just hope to see a higher quality of entries and more diverse genres. Let us see what is out there and don’t just submit the most bland basic pop that is deemed ‘suitable for Eurovision’
Aaron, i agree with literally every single word that you said. especially the part about Nicky byrne 🤦🏻♂️
Thee odds arent looking great for ireland in 2023 either
I think its a great song tho
Ryan O'Shaughnessy was 17th in the odds in SF1 back in 2018. But the staging, you know...(Mall was 15th and didn't even need staging)
Wow was he really that low? I got on board so late with that song but I can’t really remember that season that well cos I was in the middle of my nightmare Masters at the time.
But together ended up as my number 3. I do remember that that was the semi of super death though
Pretty easy to figure out Georgia televote- the older voter going for Azerbaijan won't be watching the semis, most people don't
Regarding the jury wildcard in the late 2000s, I wasn’t a superfan back then but I was acutely aware of the massive amount of complaints about the 100% televote resulting in “not respectable” songs doing well back then and for a while a large number of fans were begging for some form of jury element to be reintroduced, I think they added the jury wildcard as a form of weird compromise but obviously it wasn’t enough and we got the 50/50 system in 2009 after every man and their dog outside of the Russosphere complained about them winning with that dogsh1t song.
It’s only been the last few years where poptimism has taken over musical discourse that we’re getting the more younger fans whining about juries punishing the fun songs. Trust me, I remember the 2000s and Eurovision’s reputation was rock bottom in the televote era. I don’t want to go back to those days.
100% agree. 3 of the 4 worst winners ever in my opinion were in the 00s
I remember as a kid it was such a big deal to have televotes, like it was this exciting futuristic thing that was going to make juries obsolete, but i agree that 2008 win was a turning point
This is my opinion but: I wouldn’t consider neighbourly voting as something different from or that has less value than normal voting.
Especially when we’re talking about televote, people from North Macedonia would likely vote for Vladana because they’re familiar with the Montenegrin sound, not because she’s inherently from Montenegro.
Same thing with Brooke, of course she would have taken high points from Australia and the UK since they all share similar music industries and she is from Northern Ireland, but that doesn’t mean that her points taken from these countries make her score less valid. Their songs were tailored to a certain public and it did the job. Also sometimes neighbours and countries with similar music industries don’t vote for the song, so I don’t think it’s fair to say things like “if we don’t count the neighbour voting, this country actually did worse than this other country”
yea i get your point.
I think in terms of optics, it looks better if for example you were to get lots of 3s/4s/5s from other countries, and then a bigger score from your neighbours cos you share cultural sounds in your music industry.
Getting a huge bunch of 0s and then a high score from a neighbour just doesnt look as great imo. The top 7 qualifiers got points from everyone
@@ESCTom to be fair I also agree on what you mean here, if I were a country’s delegation I would rather try to gather as many points consistently from different countries rather than target specific countries’ big points. Let’s say I am Switzerland and I chose to send a song in German to target Austria’s and Germany’s 24 points but the song is not sonically accessible to all of Europe. I am likely to miss out on a lot of top 10s and I am not even guaranteed that I will get those 48 points from jury and televote. For me (and I guess also for you it seems) it’s not a good strategy, too risky, but in case those 48 points do come to Switzerland, they are still well earned in the same way as if Switzerland, sending a fairly catchy song, got 1 point from both juries and televote from 24 different countries and none of them from neighbours. They are both 48 points with the same value. The only difference is that we perceive the latter as a better outcome because I, the Swiss delegation, managed to sell my own contestant’s music to a wider audience, which wouldn’t have had easy access to it (which Germany and Austria already have) if not for Eurovision
Circles was never my favourite song but I've bee rooting for North Macedonia in recent years - Tamara in 2019 was amazing, also loved their JESC entries in both 2019 and 2021. 2019 especially Mila Miskov, could easily have been a finalist at adult ESC
yea im also always rooting for 🇲🇰
btw 2 of your comments from a week ago got held back because you had links in them. I have to turn off comment links cos theres too many spammers. I approved both comments now but just be careful if putting a link in to not write the actual address.
i didnt want you thinking that id deleted them
@@ESCTom My comments blocked because I had links in them?.. Feck!, Exposed! You finally sussed I've been the pornbot all along lol. No worries, won't link again Tom - that sounds wise :)
Georgia and Azerbaijan actually do vote for Israel pretty consistently. If you look at Azerbaijan in particular, they've given them 12's in the final no fewer than three times (2018, 2021, and 2023 - the middle being the most surprising, since she took it over Russia and Ukraine in both the semi and the final) and have only failed to vote for them once in a final since 2015 (2019, poor dude). They're both pretty close culturally with Israel.
late to this but might be worth noting that michael ben david is part georgian! that could explain the 10 from georgia
There are strong bilateral relations between Israel and both Georgia and Azerbaijan, for various historical reasons (such as Jewish populations, early recognition of independences, and military support). So the voting patterns in Eurovision between these countries is expected.
I think what explains 10 points to Israel from Georgia and Azerbaijan is the fact that a singer like Michael Ben David would not really be considered lgbt but simply kitsch and they love kitsch. Look at Philip Kirkorov he's very popular in Eastern Europe yet for western standards he might be considered "lgbt". I read a BBC article about that topic but I cannot find it
Spirit of the Night got no jury points. The televote gave them some all from Germany because the dude had German roots. I think the same year Malta got no televote points.
yep, 0 for Malta in televote, 1 for san Marino.
0 for San Marino in juries
for me it still brain screws me that Azerbaijan got 0 televotes in the semi and Australia got 74, yet in the final Azerbaijan got 3 and Australia got 2
YES!
Another possible explanation is that different people watch the semis than the final? Maybe the people who watch the semis are more accepting of Australia? Or maybe some of the SF1 songs cancelled out australia too much?
It must be remembered with Australia while they got 74 points in the televote they didnt come top 3 in any country, it may mean in a final of 24 others songs when the standard is higher its easier for a song that may have come 4-7 in the semi TV to come like 11-14th in the final and if you come 11th-14th you get 0 points.
The only thing I can offer is I voted for Sheldon in the semi but not the final. I thought he deserved a place in the final but prefered other people in the final itself. The second is running order I think sometimes people get so focused on later is better that they forget who you're near can affect you. Australia were between Sweden and the UK who were fifth and sixth in the televote in the final both with points in the high one hundreds range. You wouldn't have thought it was possible with that outfit but maybe being between Cornelia and Sam mean Sheldon got overlooked maybe bloody Oz gave us poms no jury points because they knew we nerfed them 😜.
@@EmoBearRights yeah I agree with all your points. I think we had an underatedly bad running order in between 4th and 2nd place. I can't believe our jury gave UK nothing. Luckily our televote gave you 7
@@lachysims6327 Our jury gave both one of my favourite winners of all time - Zitti E Bouni last year and the one that always wins the poll for being the most iconic of all time - Waterloo no points so yeah sometimes we're represented by idiots. Thank you Oz for the seven televote points in the end we probably need them more than the jury points.
Azerbaijan's song was problematic musically. I listened to all the songs and that was the only one I could never remember, and if that happens (and it's not just for me, I read the same from others) you did something wrong composing the song... his vocals were good of course, and the staging was interesting.
Thanks for the interesting analysis!
i do feel like it kind of comes across that the Azerbaijan songs are written from people from other countries, they dont really have enough of a musical identity outside of the duda
I have always felt Austria 2018 did (non-Sweden) jury-bait the best of almost anyone the last decade. Really well-sung, well staged, and catchy radio-pop fusion thst still got some good televotes. What Azerbaijan and Switzerland did this year feels super cheap and tasteless, to me.
yea thats why i really liked austria's entry this year, cos it was a break from their jury BAITING. its a shame that they couldnt realise all its potential
Nah Romania doesnt rly get points from neighbouring countries they dont like us. Except Moldova. Other eastern european or balkan countries dont vote for us. We are usually saved by spain/uk and other places where Romanians emigrated tbh
Isreal have a political coalition with Azərbaycan and always get high points from them. Make you wonder how authentic is televoting in Azərbaycan
The Israel singer is from Georgia?
his father is from Georgia, his mother is from Ukraine
My country has been accused for favoring thrashy pop many times. And now Malta got its highest jury point from here. 😳
ahhhh youre from Sweden? I dont know why i always thought you were Estonian 🤔
@@ESCTom Ssshhh, this is not a proud moment. >_< I'm Finnish but have lived in Sweden most of my life.
Azerbaijan for whatever reason just really likes Israeli entries. If you look at the comment section of this years and past years Israeli entry you’ll see tons of comments from Azerbaijanis
ah thats interesting. I guess the Mizrahi bit doesnt hurt at all, it definitely has an Eastern sound to it
Even though us Swedes place a high importance on Eurovision, I don't know how we could have bribed all the juries. I find it hard to believe that anyone would want to pay that many people for something that stupid.
SVT (Sveriges Television AB) would definitely not pay anyone. SVT literally runs on tax payer money. The Swedish TV licence fee gets taken directly from our taxes since 2019. The Swedish public would be outraged if that money was spent on bribes. Heads would roll in that case, I'm sure.
I guess the only way would be if a very rich and crazy private individual decided to pay bribes. I can't think of anyone that might do that. But I don't really keep up with Swedish celebs either.
the Swedish rigging thing is 10000000000000% bullshit, its literally the dumbest thing ive ever heard. Im actually going to do a short video explaining how fucking stupid it is, cos im so annoyed about it
@@ESCTom Lol, OK. :D Looking forward to it. I was confused by it because I couldn't figure out how it would even work.
But why why do you think Australia scores so high with the juries no matter the song, and then get humiliated in the final with the televote? And why jurries underscore selective countries, ex Poland , Romania, Moldova, and always give plenty of points to Australia, Sweden, Azerbaigean.
everybody knew Australia was going to do well with the juries, we all said as soon as the song was chosen that it was a jury bait song. Its not "no matter the song", their song last year got nothing. they usually send good quality jury bait songs though
Romania/Moldova - those songs are not remotely jury baity.
Poland came 7th with the jury
Glad that Finland qualified. You didn't believe it.
We annihilated everyone :D
Michael Ben David’s father is a Georgian Jew.
In relation to countries qualifying with a low placing in the odds, Ireland in 2018 was 16th in the odds for it's semi and Albania was 15th and as we know they both qualified.
Ireland was actually 17th on the day of the jury final and were 18th prior to the pre parties. I think the odds arent going to always get it right because in quite afew cases a countries record can influence the bookies, Ireland for instance being last in the bookies this year made no sense especially when you consider the likes of Montenegro, Georgia etc were in the semi and clearly had less of a chance of qualifying, come rehearsals I guess a little dose of reality hit the bookies.
I am sure this has been suggested already, but I'll say it anyway: 1: Remove the juries from the semis, apart from maybe San Marino who doesn't have a choice; 2: Have three - four semis instead of two semis; and 3: Keep the juries in the final.
There are several benefits to removing the juries from the semis. It would be much harder for the juries to cheat, and they can't put through songs that the public dislikes. If semis are shorter in length then the songs that are first in the running order don't get so heavily penalised. It would not be so late when the semis end, so more people can stay up and vote. It would also break up any block voting even more. (For example with 3 semis, one Nordic country would be alone. With 4 semis, 3 out of 5 Nordics would be alone).
The juries could still vote in the final, for people who like the juries. The juries would have much less time to cheat ahead of the final. Let's say there are 3 televised televote semis on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and the jury final show on the Friday as normal. The juries would only have 1 - 3 days to cheat, since they wouldn't know who was going through to the final before that.
As it is now I think the juries have a couple of weeks to cheat in the semis, since they know who they share their semi with for that long.
Apologies for the wall of text. I tried to keep it short.
IMO there are 2 main unfortunate results from the jury-cheating: 1. Innocent, non-cheating countries risk missing out on the final, and 2. The public doesn't get to see the songs that they want in the final. It shouldn't be possible for a song that gets zero from the televote to make into the final. (Personally I didn't dislike the Azerbaijan song, but I wouldn't have put it in the top 10).
yea its only happened once so far and aiming for a jury points only qualification is not a strategy that any country wants to do, so it might hopefully just be a once off
@@ESCTom Yeah.
I would like to see instead of a 50/50 split of points, something like 60 for tele and 40 jury
Azerbaijan and Israel have extremely close ties so Azerbaijans 10 to them makes sense but Georgia is an anomaly
MBD is part Georgian
I was surprised that Belgium made into the top 10 with the televote, but my biggest surprise was the 12 for San Marino from our jury (and 7 for Israel, the really liked the camp)
Israel, Azerbaijan and Georgia are in the same pot for the draw, so I guess they have historically a friendly connection.
ah yes good point about them being in the same pot
If EBU calls out the juries with unusual voting patterns they should stop the cypriotic and greek juries of awarding the 12 points each other. That's exactly the same that was going on this year but is tolerated since decades.
yea the greek cyprus thing is just impossible to manage
those juries arent being told to vote anything by HoD or the broadcaster, you literally just cant find 5 people in the entirety of greece or cyprus who wont give the other 12.
Same with Azerbaijan and Armenia.
@@ESCTom azerbaijan and armenia? are you sure about that lol
I understand why Sweden would be accused of rigging. That song had a decent hook but it was a very bland, kind of dated feeling pop song. Even the singer herself seemed board preforming it. I know that was her thing but not a great way to connect with an audience. How could it have received loads of 12 points??
well it did equally well with the televote so it seems like quite a large consensus
i didnt really vibe with it either but ive seen a lot of people on twitter who were literally obsessed with it
I think there's a mistake in thinking ...well I don't like. Advantage of being the weird kid as I know that's not true.
'gay bop' hahahah say it like it is lols