Please excuse the occasionally spotty internet. It sorts itself out! Threads shown in the video: www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-tiering-discussion-survey-post-40.3741344/page-2#post-10132359 www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-reuniclus-suspect-test.3745426/
Truly sickening, he shouldn't be in ANY fucking position of authority if he does things like this. Silencing the community shows that he refuses to listen to it, and therefore refuses to care about the metagame's community.
Finchinator burned my dinner tonight to distract me from the fact that Reuniclus is broken in BWOU and Raging Bolt is broken in NatDex OU and honestly the fact that someone in such a position of power is able to manipulate people's feelings and distract them from the bigger issue is disgusting
Obviously an oversimplification but a large portion of this video just felt like you guys going back and forth between: “Nuh uh reuniclus is reasonable to handle with conventionally good Pokémon. Losing to it is a skill issue actually” and “Nuh uh reuniclus is unreasonable to handle with conventionally good Pokémon due to the support it receives from its teammates” back and forth in a reuniclus recover loop looking for a para
At the risk of sounding like too much of a cringe complainer, armchair psychoanalyst, whatever else, I'd like to offer some thoughts on this video and other interview-style videos you host on this channel. I'm not assuming anybody else shares these views, I'm only speaking for myself. I've watched (or rather listened to, lmao) almost certainly >80% of the videos on your channel from the past 3-4 years or so, and the Player Interview series is my favourite Pokémon content on the site. I enjoy your content, and you seem like a caring person. Just wanna set up where I'm coming from. I think that your style of off-the-cuff, impressively coherent rambling is generally excellent. Every time you feature somebody else in one of your videos though, there is a lot of interrupting each other, and it's very disproportionately from your side (as in you interrupting your guest). I know it's your channel and that you have a lot of things you want to say, but when there is another person featured, it makes watching/listening pretty painful for me at times. Another RUclips creator who introduced an interview series to their channel (albeit into tightly edited 10-20 minute videos) along with more featured guests experienced some early growing pains that they talked about, primarily relating to that creator paraphrasing their guest often and unintentionally doing so to represent their own views better. For example, the guest says "I like Hot Cheetos, but I prefer regular Cheetos because they're more mild." And the host, somebody who dislikes the hotness of Hot Cheetos, say, "So just to be clear, what you're saying is that you think Hot Cheetos are unpleasantly hot?" It's a fair question to ask, but doing it enough times combined with interrupting the guest on numerous other occasions, it comes across with a bit of a gravitational sense of self, always looking for entry points to interject with your own opinion and a sense of self-importance because it always HAS to be now, and feels a little bit disrespectful. You're not the only one who does it in your interviews/features, however, you're usually the first to do so and the more frequent offender. Around the 6 minute mark you interrupted peng, and then around by the 35 minute mark it's starting to devolve into a crunchy, small-scale shouting match of sorts. At 44 minutes or so peng catches himself after you thought he cut out to say "no I'm just letting you talk", which slows that down for like 30 seconds, after which he counter-interrupts you lmao. I don't mean to be "keeping score" here, just using some examples that jumped out at me while I was listening. Anyway I'm getting a little lost in the details. Lemme try to wrap this up since I don't want to make this seem like some gigantic slanderous hitpiece; my intent is really just to share some thoughts I've had for a while about these videos on your channel. Essentially, I love the platform you have here because it's one of the only resources and also one of the best resources for deeper insights into older Generation metagames and Smogon Tournament history and matches. I think your unfocused, video diary style of rambling is very enjoyable especially as a catalogue/videography. I do find that I yearn for a little more structure in these videos featuring people who don't have a platform like yours, but I also find myself wondering if I'm misunderstanding the intent behind them in the first place. Some great debating goes on in moments throughout this, but some of those moments are made a lot more difficult to understand or heavily stifled by interrupting each other and stuff a lot. But it feels like it ends up getting framed like you guys are trying to convince each other and not the audience, and when the whole point of you two discussing this is that you firmly hold your stances, it trips up some good discussion points because you both seem to get fixated on trying to get the other person to see things your way rather than using your opposing views to zoom in on the areas where you disagree and explore them more together. For example, I was interested to hear you guys talk about the Mamoswine topic more, but you kinda hijacked peng's position for three straight minutes when I really feel like you could have made the same points AND responded to whatever peng was going to say if you just waited a little bit longer. I'm only focusing on you because you're the one common denominator and personally I believe that you have more influence over how the conversations go on your channel because you're the de facto "host". I don't mean to put such a negative spotlight on your specifically, I see it more as a consequence of trying to share my thoughts in the direction that I find most productive, and I apologize if it doesn't end up being as gentle or impersonal as I intended. I know that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here, and I don't want to tell you how to run your ship. At the end of the day, despite all of these things, I still enjoyed listening, especially everything about your core disagreement with "how much of a problem is it that you need play your whole team well just to beat a well-played Reuniclus?" I've had these thoughts floating around in my head for a while and I guess this is where I decided to let them free. Sorry about the internet troubles, that really sucks. Hope your work day goes well and you have a nice rest of the day. Thanks for putting this stuff out, you're the #1 reason I took the jump to enter this Smogon Classic (Smogon Classic X), and I'm really looking forward to your inevitable coverage on whatever comes out of that event. Thanks as always, see you (more like hear you) in the next one.
@@amberhernandez I was writing this in between breaks and I really thought I was gonna be done soon lmao. Also since I'm replying I might as well document that I'm pro-ban.
PRO (ban) : Bro is broko lmao Magic Guard is sorcery and therefore forbidden His name is annoying and pronounced wrong Too many sets ; would rather know that I lost for sure in team preview ANTI (ban) : Alakazam will be lonely :( Not a net win or loss for any side of the weather war and therefore pointless to the conflict people care about Technically psychic types can only be broken 70% of the time Spikes is the real problem anyway so why even try anything at all
I think my favorite BW tiering moment is when the villain Finchinator won the first SPL game of the season with Baton Pass, and then linked the PR thread to ban Baton Pass in the winpost, so as to cover his tracks
My username says my favorite Gen 5 OU Pokemon. I run this thing with many many different sets, even obscure ones like Thunder Hp Ice CM Recover on Rain. Anything you’ve thought of, I’ve probably run it before. It’s fun, but ever since before they brought down Excadrill because Jelly and Reun were strangling the meta, I thought it would be banned. I hope my boy gets his deserved Uber status this time. It was fun(for me) but I don’t think Reun has any business being in OU
Hearing that ppl sacrifice a whole ass Latios to Twave a TTaur to enable Reuniclus sounds so degenerate Like ppl staying in on a bad matchup to hope for a scald burn
The main thing this conversation says to me is just HOW malleable Reuniclus is to its environment. It literally benefits from every team style and every strategy and aspect from this meta game. And I’m not saying that generally is a bad thing because look at GSC Snorlax. But the difference is many mons that run certain moves or sets pretty much just for Reun? Is that what we consider healthy? HP Ghost Keldeo? Good lord. But also what is Reun holding together compared to GSC Lax? Lax holds the Electrics back from dumpstering its tier. Is Reun adding stability to BW in the same way? I can’t say it does confidently.
You and peng have completely opposite opinions on almost anything Gen 5 it seems like and it feels like after any discussion there hasn’t been much change of heart on either side. Honestly though, is peng really just against any change whatsoever? His entire anti ban argument is, in TL;DR, literally skill issue. And it’s not a good argument whatsoever even when u wanna consider the nuances of such a shitpost-worthy point: he said “ clicking Knock-Off instead of a spike to make it recover instead of CM after 15 turns…” Does he even realize how insane this is? Pokémon is a game that has not only RNG, but blatant unpredictability. Yes, the most optimal/midground move might be clicking move 1, but the opponent has one move that could punish it, which in turn loses to all other options you click. So now, you’re simply in a 50/50 of what happens (clicking an optimal/midground move or the move that counters that) and how the game will progress. Saying “play better” by telling you to predict a situation in 15 turns is utterly insane, there’s so many choices and plays in each turn. Even in the game of goddamn chess, common COMPUTERS calculate up to 18 moves in advance, and that has NO RNG to account for, NO bullsh1t “I’ll play a bad move to counter your optimal one” (that plainly doesn’t exist as you don’t get value off of 1 turn in chess). Entirely unserious take
It makes sense they have totally different opinions on the components that make up the tier, one enjoys it and the other doesn't (which is likely why BKC invites him for these debates). As for the "shitpost" point, I think you're oversimplifying (or perhaps just taking too literally) what he meant by insisting you have to make the precise perfect play on a specific turn to win. I'm pretty sure he's going after the idea that there are many turns per game where the opportunity to open a pathway to make Reun vulnerable in a later game state exist like with any decent defensive Mon and can be traced back, analyzed, and learned from to make it a reasonable task, hence the "skill issue" in dealing with it.
@@EvilApple567 Needing perfect play against a Mon every time, that can customize its sets, meaning basing off a “perfect play” from a guess, is inherently unhealthy. Your best play at a moment might be switching in TTar because you believe the Reun has Thunder into your Jirachi (let’s say the other team has Alakazam which has Focus so you don’t expect this Reun to have it) and then it blows you up with Focus. big lol. Even worse, you do your perfect play and get hit with Thunder Para. There is no “perfect play” in a game where you do not know your opponents tools at hand. There’s only “a good guess”. And even then you might get hit with RNG
how on earth can you possibly come to the conclusion that predicting the CM Reuniclus will try to click CM in the future is some sort of insane unreasonable analysis if you’re hyper-fixating on the specific number of turns then you’ve completely missed the point lmao
@@dtvten2532 Now you have no Rocks (I know he used spikes as an example) and the opposing Latios is switching in 10 times unchecked not chipped clicking Draco and TWave either blowing you up or letting Reun run over you when your TTar is paralyzed. My point was not that predicting a CM from a CM Reun is unreasonable (are you serious?) my point is that trying to predict how the game will go on is not reasonable. Saying shit in hindsight is easy but you don’t know how the game would have gone otherwise. Reun is broken, top players have all talked about it being suspect worthy/broken/too strong, and Pengs only anti-ban argument was, I kid you not, “skill issue”. Saying this to players who’ve worked with this degenerate Mon for 14 years is disgusting
@@verymotivated7193 I'm assuming you're the guy who replied in the thread - I'm getting to it now but I do think you've misrepresented a lot of what I've said here. Less "skill issue" and more "things that are challenging to use and play vs are good if you want to reward the better player". Reuniclus is annoyed by enough of the good pokemon in the game through Knock, Twave, Pursuit, Trick, Encore, phasing and most importantly, outright damage that setting up situations where it wins vs even standard teams is actively difficult vs good opponents. People are acting like this is "CM and win" situation which couldn't be further from the truth.
It's nice to hear all this. Having informed opinions from two great players be readily accessible is cool and offers insight into a higher level of play than most people are used to, myself included. However, I think that this lacks the structure and respect for ideas that a debate would ordinarily have. I understand that connection issues can force repetition of ideas and make speaking over each other an inevitability, but there are a few moments where one of you cuts the other off mid sentence. I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but it is a bad look when you are cutting people off, especially as the host of the platform. None of this really matters because it's just two guys discussing their special interest online and it shouldn't be held to the same standards as a more formal debate. Just food for thought for the next time a guest comes on for a debate.
The hilarious tragedy of Smogon is the vicious cycle of change being so hard, no one wants change because they're afraid of how hard it is to undo something This whole idea of "we need to DEFINITIVELY prove something is good before even ATTEMPTING a ban" is so laborious compared to other games which can hotfix a bad balance change within a week
I do think you're underselling the positives of that slow moving process. There's big kneejerk movements to ban something all the time and when you let the meta settle it turned out it's actually completely fine or not even that good.
Only OU is like this because of the different standard it has as the “premier” metagame. The lesser exposure the other metagames have comes with less strictness so there’s better balance.
This is why policy players should not be respected Honestly who cares about policy we want to play mons in a balanced meta if that means UU is now OU because we banned everything then that’s just the way it’s gotta be
I personally welcome the Reuniclus endgame and think every match of gen 5 ou should start with rocks and two layers of spikes down on both sides of the field.
Peng’s entire point is just skill issue. The only real counter he brings up is Excadrill. Other than that he just brings up “tools to beat it” like knock off which no decent Reiunclus player is letting that happen and meme shit like encore. Just ban the thing.
@@verymotivated7193It really feels like through the entire video he’s just someone who’s a top tier player with Reuniclus teams (psychic spam) and as a result he doesn’t want the most powerful mon of the strategy gone.. That’s the vibe he’s giving off.
taking skill to use , has no influence if something is overpower or not isn't hard to understand , if your arguemnt is skill issue you don-t have an arguement
@BKCplaysPokemon true. I've also been wondering about specially defensive mandibuzz on these types of teams to help handle reuniclus. If you in snarl and taunt you beat standard 0 sp atk reuniclus even from 50% and overcoat means you don't take sand damage. It also checks zam well and latios decently so do you think it could be a decent tool vs psy-spam?
i remember i watched this video like almost 15 years ago about the BW metagame. It was between JabbatheGriffon and some other dudes. Anyway, I remember I think it was Jabba saying something about Reiniculus being broken. So anyway yeah. Blast from the past.
Please excuse the occasionally spotty internet. It sorts itself out!
Threads shown in the video: www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-tiering-discussion-survey-post-40.3741344/page-2#post-10132359
www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bw-ou-reuniclus-suspect-test.3745426/
occasionally
Finchinator's persistence to silence peng by cutting Discord is nothing short of revolting.
Truly sickening, he shouldn't be in ANY fucking position of authority if he does things like this. Silencing the community shows that he refuses to listen to it, and therefore refuses to care about the metagame's community.
Finchinator burned my dinner tonight to distract me from the fact that Reuniclus is broken in BWOU and Raging Bolt is broken in NatDex OU and honestly the fact that someone in such a position of power is able to manipulate people's feelings and distract them from the bigger issue is disgusting
Finch made my dog cry
Peak BKC is an hour long video where 50% of the people in it cannot be heard consistently
yes, but the thrill is to find out which 50%.
Obviously an oversimplification but a large portion of this video just felt like you guys going back and forth between:
“Nuh uh reuniclus is reasonable to handle with conventionally good Pokémon. Losing to it is a skill issue actually” and
“Nuh uh reuniclus is unreasonable to handle with conventionally good Pokémon due to the support it receives from its teammates” back and forth in a reuniclus recover loop looking for a para
its true, it would have helped to start with "what do we want when we ban a pokemon and what should we not be looking for?" and work from there
The audio issues probably didn't help, as both BKC and peng had repeatedly restart and restate their points
At the risk of sounding like too much of a cringe complainer, armchair psychoanalyst, whatever else, I'd like to offer some thoughts on this video and other interview-style videos you host on this channel. I'm not assuming anybody else shares these views, I'm only speaking for myself. I've watched (or rather listened to, lmao) almost certainly >80% of the videos on your channel from the past 3-4 years or so, and the Player Interview series is my favourite Pokémon content on the site. I enjoy your content, and you seem like a caring person. Just wanna set up where I'm coming from.
I think that your style of off-the-cuff, impressively coherent rambling is generally excellent. Every time you feature somebody else in one of your videos though, there is a lot of interrupting each other, and it's very disproportionately from your side (as in you interrupting your guest). I know it's your channel and that you have a lot of things you want to say, but when there is another person featured, it makes watching/listening pretty painful for me at times.
Another RUclips creator who introduced an interview series to their channel (albeit into tightly edited 10-20 minute videos) along with more featured guests experienced some early growing pains that they talked about, primarily relating to that creator paraphrasing their guest often and unintentionally doing so to represent their own views better.
For example, the guest says "I like Hot Cheetos, but I prefer regular Cheetos because they're more mild." And the host, somebody who dislikes the hotness of Hot Cheetos, say, "So just to be clear, what you're saying is that you think Hot Cheetos are unpleasantly hot?"
It's a fair question to ask, but doing it enough times combined with interrupting the guest on numerous other occasions, it comes across with a bit of a gravitational sense of self, always looking for entry points to interject with your own opinion and a sense of self-importance because it always HAS to be now, and feels a little bit disrespectful. You're not the only one who does it in your interviews/features, however, you're usually the first to do so and the more frequent offender. Around the 6 minute mark you interrupted peng, and then around by the 35 minute mark it's starting to devolve into a crunchy, small-scale shouting match of sorts. At 44 minutes or so peng catches himself after you thought he cut out to say "no I'm just letting you talk", which slows that down for like 30 seconds, after which he counter-interrupts you lmao. I don't mean to be "keeping score" here, just using some examples that jumped out at me while I was listening. Anyway I'm getting a little lost in the details.
Lemme try to wrap this up since I don't want to make this seem like some gigantic slanderous hitpiece; my intent is really just to share some thoughts I've had for a while about these videos on your channel.
Essentially, I love the platform you have here because it's one of the only resources and also one of the best resources for deeper insights into older Generation metagames and Smogon Tournament history and matches. I think your unfocused, video diary style of rambling is very enjoyable especially as a catalogue/videography. I do find that I yearn for a little more structure in these videos featuring people who don't have a platform like yours, but I also find myself wondering if I'm misunderstanding the intent behind them in the first place.
Some great debating goes on in moments throughout this, but some of those moments are made a lot more difficult to understand or heavily stifled by interrupting each other and stuff a lot. But it feels like it ends up getting framed like you guys are trying to convince each other and not the audience, and when the whole point of you two discussing this is that you firmly hold your stances, it trips up some good discussion points because you both seem to get fixated on trying to get the other person to see things your way rather than using your opposing views to zoom in on the areas where you disagree and explore them more together. For example, I was interested to hear you guys talk about the Mamoswine topic more, but you kinda hijacked peng's position for three straight minutes when I really feel like you could have made the same points AND responded to whatever peng was going to say if you just waited a little bit longer. I'm only focusing on you because you're the one common denominator and personally I believe that you have more influence over how the conversations go on your channel because you're the de facto "host". I don't mean to put such a negative spotlight on your specifically, I see it more as a consequence of trying to share my thoughts in the direction that I find most productive, and I apologize if it doesn't end up being as gentle or impersonal as I intended.
I know that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here, and I don't want to tell you how to run your ship. At the end of the day, despite all of these things, I still enjoyed listening, especially everything about your core disagreement with "how much of a problem is it that you need play your whole team well just to beat a well-played Reuniclus?"
I've had these thoughts floating around in my head for a while and I guess this is where I decided to let them free. Sorry about the internet troubles, that really sucks. Hope your work day goes well and you have a nice rest of the day. Thanks for putting this stuff out, you're the #1 reason I took the jump to enter this Smogon Classic (Smogon Classic X), and I'm really looking forward to your inevitable coverage on whatever comes out of that event.
Thanks as always, see you (more like hear you) in the next one.
One of the best comments from this entire channel
All of this is great, but the highlight (for me) has to be "lemme try to wrap this up" into the _other half of the comment_ LMAO
@@amberhernandez I was writing this in between breaks and I really thought I was gonna be done soon lmao.
Also since I'm replying I might as well document that I'm pro-ban.
Yeah this is the comment lenght I expect to see in a bkc video
PRO (ban) :
Bro is broko lmao
Magic Guard is sorcery and therefore forbidden
His name is annoying and pronounced wrong
Too many sets ; would rather know that I lost for sure in team preview
ANTI (ban) :
Alakazam will be lonely :(
Not a net win or loss for any side of the weather war and therefore pointless to the conflict people care about
Technically psychic types can only be broken 70% of the time
Spikes is the real problem anyway so why even try anything at all
Im so sick of trying to pronounce this mfkers name im pro-ban
I think my favorite BW tiering moment is when the villain Finchinator won the first SPL game of the season with Baton Pass, and then linked the PR thread to ban Baton Pass in the winpost, so as to cover his tracks
My username says my favorite Gen 5 OU Pokemon. I run this thing with many many different sets, even obscure ones like Thunder Hp Ice CM Recover on Rain. Anything you’ve thought of, I’ve probably run it before. It’s fun, but ever since before they brought down Excadrill because Jelly and Reun were strangling the meta, I thought it would be banned. I hope my boy gets his deserved Uber status this time. It was fun(for me) but I don’t think Reun has any business being in OU
I vote in favour of letting this single showdown gamer having the right to use Reuniclus in OU even after its ban o7
Hearing that ppl sacrifice a whole ass Latios to Twave a TTaur to enable Reuniclus sounds so degenerate
Like ppl staying in on a bad matchup to hope for a scald burn
The main thing this conversation says to me is just HOW malleable Reuniclus is to its environment. It literally benefits from every team style and every strategy and aspect from this meta game. And I’m not saying that generally is a bad thing because look at GSC Snorlax. But the difference is many mons that run certain moves or sets pretty much just for Reun? Is that what we consider healthy? HP Ghost Keldeo? Good lord. But also what is Reun holding together compared to GSC Lax? Lax holds the Electrics back from dumpstering its tier. Is Reun adding stability to BW in the same way? I can’t say it does confidently.
You and peng have completely opposite opinions on almost anything Gen 5 it seems like and it feels like after any discussion there hasn’t been much change of heart on either side.
Honestly though, is peng really just against any change whatsoever? His entire anti ban argument is, in TL;DR, literally skill issue. And it’s not a good argument whatsoever even when u wanna consider the nuances of such a shitpost-worthy point: he said “ clicking Knock-Off instead of a spike to make it recover instead of CM after 15 turns…”
Does he even realize how insane this is? Pokémon is a game that has not only RNG, but blatant unpredictability. Yes, the most optimal/midground move might be clicking move 1, but the opponent has one move that could punish it, which in turn loses to all other options you click. So now, you’re simply in a 50/50 of what happens (clicking an optimal/midground move or the move that counters that) and how the game will progress. Saying “play better” by telling you to predict a situation in 15 turns is utterly insane, there’s so many choices and plays in each turn. Even in the game of goddamn chess, common COMPUTERS calculate up to 18 moves in advance, and that has NO RNG to account for, NO bullsh1t “I’ll play a bad move to counter your optimal one” (that plainly doesn’t exist as you don’t get value off of 1 turn in chess).
Entirely unserious take
It makes sense they have totally different opinions on the components that make up the tier, one enjoys it and the other doesn't (which is likely why BKC invites him for these debates).
As for the "shitpost" point, I think you're oversimplifying (or perhaps just taking too literally) what he meant by insisting you have to make the precise perfect play on a specific turn to win. I'm pretty sure he's going after the idea that there are many turns per game where the opportunity to open a pathway to make Reun vulnerable in a later game state exist like with any decent defensive Mon and can be traced back, analyzed, and learned from to make it a reasonable task, hence the "skill issue" in dealing with it.
@@EvilApple567
Needing perfect play against a Mon every time, that can customize its sets, meaning basing off a “perfect play” from a guess, is inherently unhealthy. Your best play at a moment might be switching in TTar because you believe the Reun has Thunder into your Jirachi (let’s say the other team has Alakazam which has Focus so you don’t expect this Reun to have it) and then it blows you up with Focus. big lol. Even worse, you do your perfect play and get hit with Thunder Para.
There is no “perfect play” in a game where you do not know your opponents tools at hand. There’s only “a good guess”. And even then you might get hit with RNG
how on earth can you possibly come to the conclusion that predicting the CM Reuniclus will try to click CM in the future is some sort of insane unreasonable analysis
if you’re hyper-fixating on the specific number of turns then you’ve completely missed the point lmao
@@dtvten2532
Now you have no Rocks (I know he used spikes as an example) and the opposing Latios is switching in 10 times unchecked not chipped clicking Draco and TWave either blowing you up or letting Reun run over you when your TTar is paralyzed.
My point was not that predicting a CM from a CM Reun is unreasonable (are you serious?) my point is that trying to predict how the game will go on is not reasonable. Saying shit in hindsight is easy but you don’t know how the game would have gone otherwise.
Reun is broken, top players have all talked about it being suspect worthy/broken/too strong, and Pengs only anti-ban argument was, I kid you not, “skill issue”. Saying this to players who’ve worked with this degenerate Mon for 14 years is disgusting
@@verymotivated7193 I'm assuming you're the guy who replied in the thread - I'm getting to it now but I do think you've misrepresented a lot of what I've said here. Less "skill issue" and more "things that are challenging to use and play vs are good if you want to reward the better player". Reuniclus is annoyed by enough of the good pokemon in the game through Knock, Twave, Pursuit, Trick, Encore, phasing and most importantly, outright damage that setting up situations where it wins vs even standard teams is actively difficult vs good opponents. People are acting like this is "CM and win" situation which couldn't be further from the truth.
BKC stealing company time to talk about pokeymons, based
Boss makes a dollar, BKC makes a dime, that’s why he Pokémons on company time
The only broken thing about Reuniclus is the conversation surrounding it apparently.
wow, you applied immense psychological pressure with all of those "technical difficulties" to win this debate.
It's nice to hear all this. Having informed opinions from two great players be readily accessible is cool and offers insight into a higher level of play than most people are used to, myself included.
However, I think that this lacks the structure and respect for ideas that a debate would ordinarily have. I understand that connection issues can force repetition of ideas and make speaking over each other an inevitability, but there are a few moments where one of you cuts the other off mid sentence. I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but it is a bad look when you are cutting people off, especially as the host of the platform.
None of this really matters because it's just two guys discussing their special interest online and it shouldn't be held to the same standards as a more formal debate. Just food for thought for the next time a guest comes on for a debate.
Oooooh Yessss the Smogon Tiering Drama that I live for!
It's really discord audio problem drama
BKC
peng
BKC
Peng
BKC
peng
These discussions are the best! Two complete masters at the game, the insight is unreal
The hilarious tragedy of Smogon is the vicious cycle of change being so hard, no one wants change because they're afraid of how hard it is to undo something
This whole idea of "we need to DEFINITIVELY prove something is good before even ATTEMPTING a ban" is so laborious compared to other games which can hotfix a bad balance change within a week
I do think you're underselling the positives of that slow moving process. There's big kneejerk movements to ban something all the time and when you let the meta settle it turned out it's actually completely fine or not even that good.
Only OU is like this because of the different standard it has as the “premier” metagame.
The lesser exposure the other metagames have comes with less strictness so there’s better balance.
This is why policy players should not be respected
Honestly who cares about policy we want to play mons in a balanced meta if that means UU is now OU because we banned everything then that’s just the way it’s gotta be
Right? Would be so much easier if the change could be just made and reverted
I personally welcome the Reuniclus endgame and think every match of gen 5 ou should start with rocks and two layers of spikes down on both sides of the field.
Ban it. Mons broken, mon that also breaks other pokemon with very little effort.
I love this kind of content! Thank you!
Peng’s entire point is just skill issue. The only real counter he brings up is Excadrill. Other than that he just brings up “tools to beat it” like knock off which no decent Reiunclus player is letting that happen and meme shit like encore.
Just ban the thing.
Seriously, saying “skill issue” after players had 14 years to adapt to this degeneracy is actually disgusting
Run an entire team with knock off 👍👍👍👍👍
@@verymotivated7193It really feels like through the entire video he’s just someone who’s a top tier player with Reuniclus teams (psychic spam) and as a result he doesn’t want the most powerful mon of the strategy gone..
That’s the vibe he’s giving off.
Oof, let's get the ball rolling, guys.
Now it's the perfect time to fix Gen 5 OU, we'll see how things end up.
Fixing gen V OU would have meant immediately banning drizzle in 2010
Not my gummy baby!
taking skill to use , has no influence if something is overpower or not isn't hard to understand , if your arguemnt is skill issue you don-t have an arguement
As much as I like to watch bkc videos his lack of professionalism is starting to make it harder and harder for me to dedicate time to watch.
BKC do you think that Reuniclus would be quite this broken if gen 5 hadn't nerfed self-destruct/explosion?
boom is in the same vein as trick, so while it'd help I doubt it'd be too much of a dif
@BKCplaysPokemon true. I've also been wondering about specially defensive mandibuzz on these types of teams to help handle reuniclus. If you in snarl and taunt you beat standard 0 sp atk reuniclus even from 50% and overcoat means you don't take sand damage. It also checks zam well and latios decently so do you think it could be a decent tool vs psy-spam?
I think peng wins because he is british
he's Scottish actually
@@BKCplaysPokemon people from Great Britain (which includes England, Scotland, and Wales) are British
@@mystrenula3911 yea tellem
I coulda sworn I heard peter capaldi say "don't call me british" before! my b
the only thing that'd put Reuniclus over the edge is if it got Thunderbolt instead of just Thunder
what would happen if they just ban focus blast
@BKCplaysPokemon
Examine Latias/Clef in DPP OU
10 minute opening statements
10/15 minute rebutles
15 minute cross-examination
5 minute closing statements
What you wanna do otherwise? Ban ttar?
i remember i watched this video like almost 15 years ago about the BW metagame. It was between JabbatheGriffon and some other dudes. Anyway, I remember I think it was Jabba saying something about Reiniculus being broken.
So anyway yeah. Blast from the past.
ERM... WHAT THE SIGMA?
Ban everything and play UU
Or Ubers even. That meta is more balanced than OU lol
@@Roto-J I don't want more latios 👿
Then we’ll just fight duosion 😭
Or RU....BW RU is a blast ngl
Ngl this needs to be said but maybe wait until off of work
failed at reqs twice now to losing crit me not wars with another reun this is so infuriating :)
i dont play this game but i love this shit
Ban Kool Creatures
39:27
Ban Latios
Ban Spikes
this is the destiny/hasan to my israel/palestine. im literally shaking right now.
I side with BKC because he looks like a third reich propaganda poster.