Roma People - Europe's Forgotten Social Disaster
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2023
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Reading through the comments, I'm relieved to find 90% of them positive and constructive. As for the rest, I'd like to address a few points:
1) Personal experience.
If you got robbed or beaten up by Roma, I get why you'd be iffy about them. However, consider that you are afraid of "Roma" as a group now, and not "men" as a group. Why is that? Because you meet positive male examples every day in your life. Your brain can thus make the connection that "men robbed me =/= all men bad". The same doesn't apply to Roma though, because maybe you don't encounter positive examples of them often enough. So do those positive examples exist? Yes, they do. Rates of racism against Roma is the lowest in areas where the majority society lives together with Roma. The same goes for Black people, Mexicans, etc. Trying to build your perception of a group via personal experience is unhelpful to say the least.
2) "They don't want to integrate."
First off, you don't know that. You feel that way, and that's okay I suppose, but do not present that as proof or evidence. Until you bring in data showing that the majority of Roma don't want to integrate, this argument cannot be taken seriously. Roma absolutely want to integrate. Are there cases where some say "fuck it", and won't do it? Sure, but why is that? The short answer: because society doesn't suddenly become tolerant and accepting towards Roma who want to integrate. Even those Roma will get the same shit, the same barriers, the same racism, regardless of their efforts. If this wasn't the case, Roma would never be denied work or accommodation. But they are, because most Eastern European societies are still largely racist towards them. And if 60% of society thinks you should be deported back to India, it might cause some issues in some with regards to their willingness to integrate.
Here's a good rule of thumb: read what you wrote about Roma, and swap the word "Roma" with "Blacks". If you don't come across as a KKK member, you're probably good. If you do, it's probably time to consider your internal biases.
That's all for now, happy commenting! I'll check back periodically and purge any overtly racist / low IQ comments.
"They don't want to integrate."
Roma people tend to discriminate and outcast those who want to integrate. Educated Romas are the most racist towards their own race. While the majority of society aren't racist and doesn't care about others' skin color if they're follow social norms. That's why dark-skinned foreigners aren't discriminated (excluding some really racist people, but fortunately, there aren't as many).
If you're a Hungarian, you already know that, so it's a good question why do you spread misinformation among those who don't experience these issues on a daily basis. Showing only one side of a story for a high view count is very unethical, you know that, right?
You are oversimplifying the issue to a racism/discrimination. The ways countries have tackled this issue is different. Romani culture is not uniform across the board. The "they don't want to integrate" is a fact for the majority.
You are intelligent, you make good videos where you flesh out the issue. In this case you are biased. Why? Because you are generalizing and oversimplifying a complex historical and contemporary issue.
In the case of Portugal, there are huge initiatives to integrate them back to society, but they don't want to because they would be disowned by their family (amongst other reasons, although I think that's the main one). They are an isolated culture within a host culture. They are given land and often times force the local government to give them land by building settlements there. They take advantage of the social system to earn thousands. I've seen nice cars and BMW's by their shacks.... Even if I sell kidneys I can't get the same benefits they do... Land and nice cars are unachievable for the majority Portugal's shit economic state.
I went to school with two Romani, they were good kids. The girl was only allowed to study until 3rd grade (our system is 1-12th grade and then university) and the guy was allowed to study until 5-6th grade.
Portugal is a melting pot of ethnicities and culture. We have arab, angolan, mozambican, latin, etc. A portuguese can be of any shade, and yet this is getting oversimplified as a racist issue...
Adam, I'm sorry you have your head up your ass but research and data matches nothing visible in real life. Most roma don't bother integrating, not because "oh we're stopping them from integrating" or some other responsibility-deflecting nonsense. Nobody in my country stops roma from going to school. Heck, in the last 30 years, there's been a marked difference in how much better GenZ kids treat them compared to my generation, and yet a huge swath of them ends up not attending class or even just dropping out entirely, especially in the inner cities where the situation usually is something comparable to "well why should I sit in school all day when I can make money at the shopping centre car park doing unsolicited window wiping". If you look at how they treat their children, using them as panhandling tag-alongs until they are old enough to panhandle on their own. And usually when they do panhandle on their own, their parents snatch away their meagre takings and spend it on themselves, because adult panhandling roma tend to snatch up twice as much on a good day as I do working my minimum-wage job.
Le a kalappal🙏🏼 Csak így tovább, nyísd ki az emberek szemeit. A bátorságod tiszteletre méltó. Persze a téma nem ennyire egyszerű. Podcast téma a Romák helyzete annyit lehet róla beszélgetni =)). A mi utáljuk őket és ők minket játék nagyon nagyon mély. I am from Transylvania =))
Same dude. This has been depressing me since kindergarten. Like I'm literally so f**king glad we're at least talking about it here as if it's not taboo. Like fr, I honestly believed this racism is unsolvable. It's a relief to see people actually questioning it for once! And 90% of it sane positive people! I wanna hang out with y'all.
Let's end racism & discrimination in all it's forms. There's no bigger honour than realizing your biases and correcting them. That's how we go forward as a society.
Big respect for uploading this man... You've ignited a much needed discussion! Fr mah G - thank you so much!
Living in France, Roma people is the one group you're allowed to be incredibly racist toward without any kind of repercussion
Based France? Wow
@@kysfggt tf
@@kysfggt I see, you're one of those
@@tonydai782 one of those that almost got killed by gypsies, tyvm
@@kysfggt the FUCK
i am sure that the comments section will be 100% civilized with no racial incidents whatsoever
Hopium
low iq european: "roma trash go home!!"
@@octoslut 100% expecting this
Saw the title and immediately thought “Oh shit, it’s gonna get racist real quick in the comments” lol.
@@tilenHD 💀
As someone with a Roma background, the reality is that i was thought that stealing, fast cash, easy money is the way to be rather than getting an education. My parents didn't talk to me for 2 years when i went to college.
The issue is generational and stems from racism, but the problems are real and i can attest this myself!
Do you think that all Roma traditions stem from racism or are there some traditions unrelated to discrimination/ poor education?
I’m particularly interested in getting married at very young age?
I was growing up in Poland and was playing with Roma girls. My family was never opposing it until they got married very young and my nan freaked out and told me not to play with them (they were wives but still were spending lots of time at the playground or around).
I hope you won’t read my comment as hateful, I’m just curious about your opinion.
@@natalias50 Marrying early is a cultural thing for more traditional romas. Think about orthodox jews vs non orthodox jews. This is just the custom in the Roma tradition, which has endured the test of time. Right, wrong, i am not the one to judge, just the custom!
I think the racism/discrimination/poor education is just because for some people these traditions are not alligned to their own cultural identity
@@Manowarmx3 ce studiezi?
good job swimming against the stream, must have been tough
@@Paul-jt9ub Am studiat dreptul, dar in afara tarii!
As a Slovak when I was much younger I was convinced that "gypsy" was a synonym for "thief"
Hearing how issues with discrimination are in parts of Europe has some very noticeable similarities with the USA's issues with discrimination in the past and present.
Living in Czechia, my boss hired a Roma to work in the accounting firm I work at, with good pay, on a non-customer facing job. Was very hard working and productive for several years, before she quit due to pressure from her family, with her being a "race traitor" for working for a non-roma. Felt really rough about that
Wow. So THAT phenomena is universal. In Iran we have refugees from Afghanistan and they are treated as ... well I'm ashamed to say it but essentially sub-human. Much worse than Roma in europe. And being labeled as a "traitor" for being an honest worker for an Iranian employer is a story I heard multiple times here and there. I guess prolonged period of oppression can make groups of people discontent towards the system. Seems obvious. But takes time to fully understand.
Man, living in the US we got plenty of issues for sure, mainly a very bad police system, pretty shit courts, and poverty issues, but this is still rough to hear.
Yeah, I have heard about such familis and their influence. It's often said they have lot of kids to get money from state child support, but I also heard how other relatives take the money from the moms and buy alcohol and cigarets. There are also often issues with psychiatrists when they get angry at the doctor when they won't diagnose them with mental disorder to be able to claim ... support for invalids. I witnessed some shouting and pounding on doors in wainting room.
Funny thing this was omitted in a video. They harm themselves. In Poland we tried for many years to assimilate them into society but they keep isolating themselves so cycle repeats and they cause nothing but harm. The only way to solve this problem without a genocide is to take away kids from their parents before they can influence them with this harmful "culture"
This is sadly how it is. Tho hard working Roma often look down on their, shall we say, not so hard working peers. Romas are known for being some incredible craftsmen.
europeans taking about american racism: they are so evil
europeans taking about Roma People: *my lawyer advised me not to finish this joke*
I am convinced that this meme making the rounds is what inspired this video.
Sadly true.
saul good man saved your ass
>chat with Europeans
>mention that Nazis killed at least 150 000 Romanis
>get banned from the chat for "trying to paint Nazis in positive light"
(To be clear, I haven't ever heard of this happening, just wanted to come up with a spicy joke that is not maliciously offensive.)
Americans shifting the blame is so funny to me
“The topic of poor segregation is not discussed”
That’s by far the most common type of segregation. It’s not discussed because it’s already the norm.
This 100%
I think he means de jure rather than de facto?
@@Sara3346 or does he?
I don't think you have to take it either way to draw major implications from that statement, maybe even beyond the intended message of this video.
I worked in a school in a socially disadvantaged part of my hometown in western Germany. There were no real problems with the Roma children (all of Romanian descent), they were sweet, and usually well behaved children, much more so than many German children. However, none of them went to school more than three or four times a month and some suddenly disappeared in the middle of the year. We tried contacting the parents repeatedly, but to no avail. I think these children were just robbed of a possible education, and I do not see why.
We are deeply suspicious of state institutions. With our history, you can see why. I grew up settled and completed my schooling but even then, nobody in my family is really a fan of the state, and they're a very integrated family
@@OpreRoma see that's your problem right there. Even if we try to integrate (by giving social warfare, housing, education) you into society you choose to isolate yourself anyway. It's impossible to break this cycle without taking away kids from their parents before they contaminate them with this harmful way of thinking.
British social workers would fine or jail Roma parents who kept their kids out of school. If they performed pre-teen marriages, they would take the kid into custody and send them off to school in another part of the country, to make sure that they got the necessary education. The message was really, really strict. The result: More highly educated Roma people. More Roma who can afford their own house. Less crime. Fewer pre-teen marriages and early childbirths. All in all, less un-culture. And more Roma people who see the benefits their educated siblings are getting out of life, and so they want it too.
@@salioneradam Yeah dude no. Very rarely are integrated peoples “choosing” to isolate on their own. It’s almost ALWAYS outside pressures from a toxic and harmful majority. Try to use your brain more often.
@@salioneradam hello, fascist!
I think your typo that gave you "social warfare" describes your proposal pretty well
I'm Greek. One time a police officer told me "you know you can just kill them and burry them and we won't do anything if you're not reported or if their families come looking for them." encouraging me to commit a hate crime. I can not imagine the hardship my Roma friends deal with every single day of their lives.
What. The. Actual. Fuck....
BASED
We should expand that attitude to other groups
@@eriksvensson6054 Gr8 b8 m8
@@eriksvensson6054 yeah, I want that expanded onto straight white cis males so we can finally purge the world of their degeneracy
It's utterly insane how even in overall progressive history classes, we learn absolutely nothing about the Roma.
Wait... You're right. That's very weird, the only thing I knew about them growing up was they used to be nomads that got kicked out of India. Absolutely zero knowledge, especially from school. I need to dig more into that.
Even in Germany, that Romani & Sinti ppl were victims of the genocide was just one line in a school book, while we go so deep to the other victim groups.
Thats because progressivism is fake rich neighborhood bs so people pat themselves on the back about how great they are.
That depends on where you live, let's talk about Poland:
It's not insane if they are just 0.13% of your country, I havent even seen one in my life
In terms of genocides - what genocides? I live in Poland, people were literally migrating here from the west in the middle ages to seek a safe place, what's why there were so many Jews
Bring up the Sami and Basque (I know the latter isn't the correct name but it's what people know)
I think there's generally a host of issues that needs to be adressed.
One problem is that many Roma families, as a result of facing poverty and discrimination for so long, also have developed a sort of crab bucket mentality and actually take offense if a family member (especially female ones) tries to pursue a higher education or work a more professional job. There are definitely some cultural issues, though most of them are also a result of discrimination, that make integration more difficult.
this problem is A LOT worse than you make it out to be
We need standardized highschools for everyone
Then the problem will be solved
I once was screamed at on the bus to leave and not steal anything like the "gypsy" I was.
The guy went very silent when I answered in a Southern Italian dialect.
Anyway, the antiziganism sentiment is very prominent in Italy too, despite the fact a third of the Rom population is CERTIFIABLY integrated, has access to higher education and stable housing through legal means etc., and of the other two thirds, only a very small percentage actually lives in nomadic groups and wants to live this lifestyle, most Rom people just want to be able to feed their families and have a job like everybody else.
Often times, there are cases of "blonde fair-skinned" girls being taken away from their Rom families because they don't look Rom, they must have been kidnapped! Exactly all of them turned out to be the daughters of the parents they were stolen from.
I was almost the victim of this segregation in school myself. I am a half Roma from Slovakia with a Roma surname and when I was 6 and was about to go to elementary school I was for some reason automatically put into a class for kids with 'special needs'. Mind you all the kids in that class where Roma. My white mother had to spend days fighting the principal, following her around the entire school until she persuaded the principal to put me into a regular class. To this day I think that was the most important thing anyone has ever done for me and my life would be unimaginably different that it is now if I was put in that class. Those kids were never given any chance. Yes on paper they did have the same curriculum but teachers never gave a fuck about them, openly talked about how they don't like to teach in that class, and treated the kids as subhumans from the moment they were taught to read. Almost noone from the 'special needs' kids finished high school as far as I know. In the mean time I am getting PhD in neuroscience so I don't think there was something wrong with me or them but they were just not as lucky as me. And I saw this happening over and over to so many people. Yes there are some Roma that cause problems but many of them were never given a chance.
Feel you, its hell to be a undesired, worse to know that there is noting wrong with you but its the society. Someday all the oppressed will win.
If I were treated like that, you can be sure that I'd be causing problems--and then some!!
This had been very common in Hungary too. I was in school late 80s and early 90s, and at first I was assigned a class - then moved into a separate one next year, created for the "lakotelepi" kids (the blockhouse kids), which included almost all Roma kids and the poorest ones: we had been assumed the problematic ones and treated as such. Eventually they moved me into another class (the third one) due I was pretty good. The irony that at late elementary school, the special need/poor class wsa as good due a great head class teacher who cared about the kids, as our "elite" class.
What hit me hard as an adult, that our elite class' teacher once had a "deep conversation" to us how Roma people murder others and how much she is afraid.
That's is so disgusting, they are openly treating you as a second class citizen the moment you were born, don't want to teach you anything and treat you like shit and they wonder why these kids turn out poor and uneducated. Shame shame shame
You are right to mention your PhD in order for people to take you seriously, and I find it outrageous that they wouldn't, if you were not that extremely highly educated. People should just take it for granted that Roma are the exact same, intelligent, sensible people as anyone else.
You know, Danes have this tendency to be so incredibly full of ourselves about how "progressive" our society is, and how we solved racism or whatever, but you still get the police of Copenhagen making announcements on Twitter about where the "Gypsies" are being spotted.
Holy shit. Thats bad, I mean here in Bratislava is worse, but that's still so bad.
I just saw a brief doc the other day about how bad the situation has gotten in Copenhagen with Islamophobia and a rising extremist political party campaigning against the existence of mosques in the city. There's even some famous guy who makes public demonstrations apparently just burning Qurans in public squares and he's always protected by the police. It was really eye opening, I believe it was called "Provoking Limits of Tolerance". I highly recommend it to anyone curious about the current racial climate of Denmark
Way to bend the truth..
Yeah they call out pick pocket gangs, not really the police fault that the gypsy gangs keep commenting crimes.
Blame the politicians for not throwing foreign criminals out of the country
I noticed this when I passed through a few European countries, as Black man, people were super nice to me, but very hateful towards the Roma, I was told they were thieves and witches. Yet to be honest, I find them to be a very beautiful people, with a unique culture that should be preserved at all costs. I spoke to a few of them and my heart sunk when a lady I was with called the little kid a thief, thief or not, no kid in Europe of all places should live in such poverty.
any countries that claim to have solved racism just cannot be trusted 😂
One issue with roma people is that in some cases there is also self-segregation.
In middle school i had a roma classmate that came to school on average just 3 days a week, later on we discovered that she was attending school behing her parents backs and then when they found out they barred her from ever leaving their community.
Or another example was when my uncle was drafted in the italian military and ended up with a roma guy in the same plotoon, both him and his parents had italian citizenship and had integrated into the wider italian society but they kinda regretted it since doing that basically meant being banished from their original community and family.
Theres really a vicious circle of hatred and ignorance going on on both sides.
There’s self-segregation because for centuries we have been killed and harassed by Europeans. Self-segregating is protection for Roma. Just a reminder that Roma women were forcibly sterilized in Western European countries up till the 70’s
Picture you were ostracized, beaten and bullied every day of your life by a group of people; constantly bent on making sure you’re never allowed to improve yourself, constantly making sure everyone around you knows you’re second class and not to be afforded respect or opportunity. Then, with only the support of your immediate community, you build a small life and have a child. And when that child grows up, they want to go join the bullies that have caused you every pain in your life and learn their ways, and become “one of them”. It’s hard to reconcile generations of resent, especially without major change or apology
@@nateyauck772 yeah infact i mentioned fhat the issue is also part of a vicious cicle that no one from the rest of society is willing to break and roma people rightfully might not trust attempts at conciliation.
@@nateyauck772Thats some massive cope and a half. Theres serbs in Austria, poles in Germany, shitloads of LatAm immigrants in Spain yet none of them are this persistent on sustaining their "way of life" how is it we only get to criticize arabs for barring children of getting an education or childmarriages?
At this point its self-inflicted
@@gwendolynsnyder463 If their parents dont run off with them they'll just be raised to be thieves, beggars and whatnot anyway.
The amount of people in these comments who think "Roma" means "Romanian" is equal parts hilarious and depressing.
from what i remember the romanian goverment renamed them as roma to not be racist but they are a bunch of retards as now 90% of people think both are the same thing when its far from
Hell yeah, time to learn about something mundane or aggressively depressing in society, sometimes both!
it'll be both this time.
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@@Serhii_Diemientieiev Replying directly to bots makes it less likely that the comment will be removed. The more interaction a comment has (including replies), the more reports it takes to actually flag it as spam.
The wonderful, often psychotic world of European racism! Whoo!
Poverty is absolutely the number 1 indicator for criminality. Whenever people point to increased criminality in marginalized and vulnerable communities that have been systemically oppressed and kept in poverty, all they're doing is showing how ignorant they are and that they think criminality is something inherent rather than something largely born out of societal failures.
Eye Que is the number 1 predictor, it can be used for same income brackets, same yearly income, same hourly income, whatever you want, equal income but different Eye Que, the group with the lower Eye Que will always have higher criminality, including in income brackets that we could consider rich.
too bad the rich ones still steal
@@marcanton5357 Oh boy wait until you learn that poverty and social dispossessment are also predictors for low IQ (see I'm not too cowardly to say the word). And that's not even because they're dumb or something, it's just that IQ is well predicted by your level of education, and poor people get poor education. This is also the reason why nobody takes the concept of IQ seriously.
@@marcanton5357 Damn, guess yours is incredibly low.
@@marcanton5357 Wow its like poor schools make people with lacking logical skills which reduce IQ quotients in testing. Holy fuck! :O
As an individual of Roma descent hailing from Serbia, I consider myself fortunate to have had the opportunity to relocate to Vienna, Austria, when my parents made the decision to do so. Presently, I am employed in the esteemed position of working within the Parliament, enabling me to make a meaningful contribution to society. Had I remained in my ancestral Serbian village, I would not have been bestowed with the same advantageous prospects that have been made available to me in Vienna, a city renowned for its progressive nature.
well lets just say that serbs are also in that position lol. So Serbs can say the same.
@@mogamer4511 very True
you should write a book about it, bridge the gap
Vienna. Progressive. Lmfao, I fucking wish construction wasnt the only inclusive place
I work in school education I had two Roma girls who were good and smart students with a chance to go to college and get a scholarship but the family and environment forced them to get married and not finish high school. one already had problems when she wanted to go to high school after elementary school, she finally gave up (I know it wasn't her choice) in the last grade she was already married then her husband and his family forced her to leave school. My husband's friend is a roma man when he was 16 years old he hid from his family (ran away from home) because they wanted to force him to marry a 14-year-old girl he did not know. He succeeded because he has a strong character and told his father that he will run away abroad and never speak to him and he is too young to get married
in ireland we have a similar group called travellers, they are gypsies by are ethnically irish. they have the exact same issues, education, especially for girls is so stigmatized that girls aren't expected to even finish their junior cert and drop out at 15 to get married to a man the family approves of, in some cases someone they are related to. boys aren't expected to go to school either and end up doing unskilled work for cash in hand or do crime. because of this there aren't many educated travellers and there aren't many skilled ones either, meaning the only way for them to get rich is crime, which is what worsens their reputation, which pushes the settled community away from them more and more, its a vicious cycle
As a South African a lot of this rhetoric sounds very familiar. It seems racism never changes
@@GodofGamesss i dont hate black ppl just i really hate thir cultree!! -🤡🤡🤡☝️☝️
@@GodofGamesss Races ARE ethno-cultural groups though... like in America, Hispanic is a "race", but nowhere else. And Roma are originally from India, so stand out _by the darker color of their skin_ in European countries even if they assimilate or hide their culture. It's not always black against white, see Sudan having major racism problem between brown rich class of Arab Muslims and Black, predominantly Christian, natives.
You don't need to have skin color difference for apartheid, but BOY it helps. When designated scapegoat race looks close enough to the bigots, they get to measuring skulls.
@@GodofGamesss if the culture has a different color or identifier, they're always attacked more. It's why being black in America is the best
@@KasumiRINA Also, racism is about perception. I'm Jewish and I wouldn't call Jews a race. Instead, I'd define us as several ethno-cultural groups with a shared religion. But antisemites generally do see Jews as a race, and because of that, it's accurate to say that antisemitism is a form of racism.
*Circa slave trade*
"Black Africans are different! You throw them into poverty, they steal to survive. They deserve it"
Logic comes along, we realise that's BS and racism against black people eventually becomes hated by society
*women being all but sold*
"Women are different! You refuse to educate her, she acts uneducated. They deserve it"
Logic comes along, we realise that's BS
*Homophobic policies*
"Gay people are different! You throw them out, they find their own communities. They deserve it"
Logic comes along, hey hey, that's BS
Oh my God it never ends
When i was a teenager one of my best friends was from a roma family. being in close proximity to her throughout our teens i really noticed how unnecessarily hard everything was made for her from classmates and teachers but also her own family who gave her shit for actually pursuing education.
she got Abitur and studied to be a teacher last i spoke to her. i hope she is well.
It's a case of "those guys have persecuted and murdered us for centuries, we have only survived because we ran away and didn't assimilate into their culture, and now you want to do the same thing that got our ancestors killed?", of course they will be reluctant to let her study further.
It is wonderful that she managed to escape poverty and get an Abitur, even after her parents disaproved
One of the saddest thing about the roma people is their unwillingness to integrate, for a series of reasons, that allows the racist run wild, as they will still be an unkown people.
The best thing we can do is not only stop any kind of discrimination against them but also encourage them to integrate into the rest of society, so that racist discourse cant arise again
@@xmlthegreat Isolating them will only make them a bigger target, as the racist will have an easier time convincing the people that they are all bad because nobody has ever interacted with one
"but also her own family who gave her shit for actually pursuing education."
I have noticed at my job that the children (most of the ime) are willing to listen while their parents actively encourage them to not listen.
I am from Romania and during the BLM protests in the US, people here were writing BLM and ACAB on buildings everywhere but when I tried to talk to them about systemic racism towards Roma they would start talking exactly like an American republican. It's deeply saddening that we follow the American trends mindlessly without applying the same logic to ourselves or trying to think for ourselves.
I think your video is amazing, thank you for talking about this
balkan people from balkan countries caring about american politics is laughable
I do find it funny people call it an american trend when america literally gets all of its bigotry from Europe. Europeans just hide their racism better than america does
honestly it's clownish for Romanians to be putting BLM on random buildings in eastern europe. So much so that I require a bit more than taking your word for it Yeew. Sorry not sorry.
@@OhNotThat I met some Romanian police officers. They're the kindest and most real police officers I've met in Europe. Honestly. Good people, to the bone. Edit: British police, tho. Very different story.
@@OhNotThat i live in bucharest, tons of buildings are still covered in “BLM” and “ACAB” graffiti. idk why either, romanians are pretty damn bigoted, and follow the american right on a lot of topics
Intro is actually gold.
Racists love to pull FBI stats as proof of their racist stereotypes (instead of proof of what being a second class citizen for centuries does to people but I digress) but the moment you pull out the facts about how many terrorists are male, how many homicides are committed by male people... Suddenly it's not a matter and does not mean anything.
So one race commits ten times more murder than the others combined, because their great grandfathers were treated as second class citizens?
Nobody says it's not a matter. The thing is: males ARE discriminated against and 99% of people find that is just. Nobody complains the police pays more attention to males than it does to females, for instance.
@@marcomartins3563 Have you ever talked to any leftist ever
and I don't mean by condescending on them, I mean actually listening and trying to understand what they have to say about men's issues. because leftist don't think that's just
@@RafaelGarcia022 I was literally raised by a communist and educated in south america (where communist infiltrated education is mandatory) lol
Sure some feminists will pretend they care but nobody cares.
@@RafaelGarcia022 Don't you hate it when people don't finish their
I'm a white passing roma woman, and while the hate for roma people aren't as strong in western europe it's still noticable. I'm rarely afraid of mentioning I'm a lesbian to new people, but mentioning I'm roma is something I avoid unless I have to. I'm not ashamed, but it's so tiring that I can't get myself to do it anymore. While we spoke a dialect of romani language at home, I never learned to write it because my parents never learned to write it (written romani is relatively new). Which makes it hard to communicate long distance with relatives, and in many ways I feel disconnected from them. Since I don't want to live the traditional life of a roma woman, getting married to a man and all that, it's been easier to just live as non-roma. Being able to pass as non-roma has made my life easier, but the cost has been denying who I am. A choice many roma don't have, but also shouldn't have to make if they can.
thanks for sharing your story. I wish you all the best.
Don't be shy, describe how this traditional lifestyle looks like
Heh, trans vibes
Jeez. Less afraid to mention being a lesbian than your ethnicity, that is a 180 degree difference from... well what I expected lol.
The fact that you're more comfortable telling people you're lesbian than being a Roma is extremely concerning
I was in southern Poland visiting my family for a wedding a few years back. While we were there man broke into my grandma's apartment and took everything while she was sleeping in the night. He then broke back into the apartment at 6 am returned all of the items and then chastised my grandma for not having multiple locks on her door. He apologized for taking her things and gave her advice about how not to get robbed.
The first thing my polish aunt said after hearing this bizarre store is "yeah gypsies are just weird like that".
They found the guy who did it. He wasnt Roma.
the moral of the story certainly seems to be.
@@filipsichrovsky Not really a moral here. Just an anecdote about my polish family doing some casual racism.
@@ussindianapolis487 Races are based on social practices, not science. Americans generally define race as depending on skin colour, but that's not universal. In European social practices races are defined by other things than skin colour, so people who consider Roma to be a race and discriminate against them based on that are most certainly being racist.
@@ussindianapolis487 bruh do you know that the US called irish and italians not white? Racism just excludes groups on dumb bases. I like to quote goering on it he said:" i decide whos a jew." Racists arent logical
And even if it turned out they were Roma, one personal instance of property crime isn’t grounds to hate an entire group. A Muslim guy (or man of Muslim descent, at least) stole my car and totaled it. Does that change my perspective of Muslims? Not at all, because almost every Muslim I’ve met in my life has been nothing but kind, neighborly, generous, and friendly. One guy stealing my car doesn’t change any of that. Guy probably just came from harsh circumstances.
8:10 my grandmother literally did that half a year ago. A fire had started in her bedroom.
She saw the smoke from outside the bedroom door, and she went to sleep inside another room instead. Luckily a neighbour saw the fire in the bedroom window and called the fire department who rushed in and got her out.
Thankfully She was unharmed, and we've managed to get her in a good home.
Seems like her mind left this world already and her body was just going after her.
Had something similar happen to me regarding housing (Netherlands) - renter sent me an email straight up asking for my ethnicity, to which I answered that I am polish, and he promptly replied saying "oh sorry actually I'll give the apartment to my daughter". ?? what
Can't imagine what actual minorities go through, it's crazy.
do not say you are polish if you can avoid it. Say european or something. Slavic maybe. A ton of people discriminate against the polish. I know because I'm Romanian, and we are sailing the same boat.
Gecertificeerd FvD moment
One of the strongest memories I had from my childhood during the late 80s was when we visited my father's family in Hungary, and my dad showed us a segregated area where Roma people lived. I was only 7 at the time and it had a long lasting effect on my life. I saw poor people, malnourished, living in dilapidated houses with broken glass and boarded windows. Back then I didn't understand the systemic nature of it, but I'm eternally grateful that he showed us what poverty truly looked like up close at that age, it set me apart from my privileged Swedish friends, and I gained a lot of empathy towards others and always found racism and class segregation horrifyingly evil. It taught me to always be empathetic, welcoming and kind to people of other ethnicity and social background... And guess what, I have only been treated with kindness back.
👑
Take this crown king. You deserved it 👑
mega chad
I have a ASD diagnosis, but I relate more to the ADHD diagnosis, and I think my ASD is social anxiety. ASD discrimination is pretty bad too.
We keep throwing money at them and they NEVER integrate themselves. It is pointless
As a fellow Hungarian many of you guys would be in utter shock and disbelief what the everyday person says here about them. It’s almost that I barely met anyone who even tried to take their defense. Even people with diplomas are outright completely racist and hateful against them, way more than they ever are to other people of color. I had to strip away my own racism against them over the years and I’m just the odd one now for ever daring to say something positive about them
Follow-up: during my life all the bad things that are associated with Roma did happen to me personally and to my family: I was beaten up as a kid and harassed by other Roma kids, also some of my belongings were stolen by Roma kids, my family home was terrorized by another Roma family, also some of our animals were stolen by impoverished Romas. I also remember vividly how two Roma kids when they were moved into our classroom, they only were allowed there for a few weeks since all children complained how bad they smelled and they were immediately removed (whatever happened to them?). As a consequence anti-Roma sentiment was rampant in my family but also I gathered lots of frustration against them personally, but when I finally educated myself in human rights issues in my adult life I realized that all these biases I held against them still are completely unfair and inhumane to hold against all of them, as an ethnic group, since every group of people without exception has unpleasant individuals. It's simply morally inexcusable and lacks education to blame an entire group of people for their worst members. Plus I understood that when you are loathed and discriminated and shunned out all your life, as the Roma are, it's so damn easy to become unpleasant with other people, it really is. I realize it can be pretty hard for many to take the high ground and be empathetic to them as group, when we also had bad experiences with them, but being tolerant and understanding is the only way to make them feel welcomed in our societies. People who feel welcomed will most often treat you nicely too, that's all human nature, regardless of ethnicity.
Same thing in France, my friend. I've heard people say borderline genocidal things, even though I wouldn't have considered these people to be one bit racist. Most of the time it's played out for laughs, but as you say, it's so deeply woven into the culture, is impossible to know where the joke ends and when the talk becomes serious. Very worrisome, especially when you consider that there's been a literal genocide against them during WW2.
@@guillaumelagueyte1019 and the French collaborators with the Nazis didn't really get weeded out after the war, e.g. French guy who was heavily involved in F1 was a SS member.
I'm also Hungarian. My grandma just casually said "It's in their blood to steal" (a vérükben van a lopás) at the dinner table once. Everyone looked awkward but no one called her out on it.
@@lentho4382 Their music is dope. That's one more positive thing than I can say about you.
Also, why are your asking this in the first place? Should my neighbors move if I find them annoying? What kind of stupid logic is that?
No I know exactly what you mean. Hungary is in general not the brightest country in that regard, but it's absolutely insane how most of East Europe sees them as not worthy of being alive... That's why outside pressure is needed. The prejudice runs so deep here, people can't even realise they're extremely racist. It's not shocking. It's sad. Really depressing.
My mum worked for a generously funded government program to support the newly arriving Roma to my country. It was the mid 90s and it was my country's first experience with Roma.
She spent 5 years with a well trained multi disciplined professional team who had great success working with Irish Travellers, and decisions were made early on to prioritise vocational skills for men and education for women.
It was an absolute disaster. After 7 years, the team collectively quit. The conclusion was culturally that they were utterly and completely against equality for women. From pulling teens out of school and in a lot of cases university (young women genuinely excited and thriving in eduction) to marry them to non eu migrants for passports to the 1000+ married women over 40 asking for free fertility treatment to have more children in an effort to secure larger council homes which when visited by local authorities were found to have been illegally sublet to large groups of North African illegally working men. She had one patriarch who went to lengths like seeking legal advice to have his great granddaughters and nieces permanently excused from primary school education on cultural grounds so he could have them marry (under 13 year olds) in an effort to secure more council housing and benefits. I'm unsure if a replacement project was ever attempted. That was over 20 years ago and I like to think that Roma men are supportive of brighter futures for their daughters. My mother was absolutely heartbroken watching excited vibrant young women being utterly crushed by this 'culture'.
I'm waiting for the US leftists who will explain this, while living thousand of miles away and watched one (very biased and one-sided) video about this topic.
@@MrSaiyan333 They have a sexism problem in their community. Hardly the only ethnic group with such issues. When you’ve been barred from higher education for centuries, it shouldn’t surprise you that some within the community would like to keep it that way, especially the elder men, who stand to benefit from women being uneducated and dependent on them. This isn’t hard for a leftist to explain, it’s Intersectionality 101.
@MrSaiyan333 I'm not American. This is what happened. It's not an explanation of why there is a culture arranging marriages of underage girls . It's an experience with it. As an adult I'm not aware of government initiatives to help the community but my medical professional friends see front line the problems with ethnic married underage girls giving birth and the experiences they have aren't something you'd wish for your daughter.
@@MrSaiyan333 Wtf is wrong with you?
@@atix50 I believe you, just reflected on the trend under this video that Americans are giving their opinions about something they've never experienced.
About that last point you made: Spain hasn't completely integrated Roma though. They still are sometimes viewed as inferior. They still tend to be disproportionately poor and live in sub-par housing. Thankfully, nothing close to what you are saying about segregation and such. Here they go to public school as anyone else, but as the lady from the NGO said, when they arrive home they tend to lack an environment for properly studying, their family also not usually being able to help them.
I've lived my whole life basically next door to a Roma family and they seem to be stuck in a poverty cycle. They are not bad people, I know some from high school and they are nice to talk to, my father also says hi to one of the fathers of the family that he knows. Nevertheless, I feel like from not completing education properly, their children just end up not being productive citizens. But there's probably also a family component, like, pressure to stay with the family, which ends up being an environment that hinders the development of those that want to improve beyond poverty. I hope the situation gets better for them.
Indeed. They are not systematically discriminated against, but they still seem not to be able to integrate completely in many ways except for art. They are still disproportionately represented in poor neighbourhoods and as a consequence in crime rates. But at least they aren't denied any service or help. Maybe just not enough time has passed for us to see the results.
You have Roma neighboors and makeshift villages in Spain. Cañada Real, 3000 viviendas... Even my town has one (and while it isn't on the level the 3000 viviendas, it is regarded as one of the most problematic neighboors and concetrates most of the crimes and drug traffic).
I've heard several times people saying randomly something like "I don't like black people, but they're better than Roma". Double racism in just one sentence! The racism against Roma is so normalized that even politicians are openly racist against Roma and they get popular with that.
Wow, it really is that bad.
I hope that more people watch this video and wake up to this reality.
I'm black and even I'm like "daaaaammmmmnnnn"
The worst part is that roma are usually indistinguishable from white people. You can't tell who's a roma just by looking at them. The racism is purely a cultural response, while with black people it's both cultural and visual.
lol this is remembering me to mi hazánk in hungary! that party say stuf like this XD they are want more segregation against roma and beacuse of that the secong largest party in the parlament XDDDDDDDD its just so hungary right??
@@mushmush4980 "roma are usually indistinguishable from white people"
I'm not sure about this. Maybe it is different for western europe
My primary school in Portugal was next to a slum where Roma people lived (they are now in social housing) but my school did not segregate us. Lots of them were problematic and smelled bad (obviously, they lived in horrible conditions), but I played with two Roma children who became my friends for a very short time before they moved away to the capital. Thanks to being exposed to "good examples", and having a father who educated me on the impact of poverty, I never drank the koolaid and always defended Roma people growing up. But I was alone in that, and "weird", people would laugh at me thinking I was joking. It's horrible.
I'm also from Portugal. There were some Roma people in the schools I've been, and I was never able to talk with them.
They work as a gang, honest work is discouraged, they keep trying to pick up fights with people and when we try to help them they take advantage of us.
Here's the thing. I was able to talk to black people, to east europeans, to brazillians, but never with the Roma.
I was in the same situation in my primary school, the roma people there spoke romanian so nobody spoke to them, but they also wouldn't pick figths with us, we just coexisted, the worst part was their smell, if you were sitting next to them in class you had to tolerate it for the whole day it was torture for a child.
The only times I see Roma people is when I go to Berlin and there are beggars where the children try to pickpocket you. And sometimes a bunch of camper vans camp out somewhere in a forest clearing close to me and then a bunch of cars are stolen and houses broken into for a couple of weeks and then the forest clearing is left by the camper vans again leaving behind a bunch of garbage.
@@Maddinhpws Do you realize that Roma people are all around you and just bcs you only notice them when they are beggars doesn’t mean that in a coffee shop next street isn’t a literal Roma waitress? Or cook? Or OWNER? Do y’all realize these people are HUMAN?How do you know the ethnicity&race of all the people that surround you in places like the bank, the store, the doctor.Y’all only observe Roma that confirm your stereotypes bcs of Confirmation Bias and being indoctrinated into racism.This racialized group has been through 500 years of Chattel Slavery, perceived and treated like animals, owned&bought&sold like objects for centuries, do you know wtf that actually means? Do y’all even comprehend the gravity and depths of racism? Any racialized group that has had a similar history as Roma is dealing with the same criminalization, poverty, segregation& systemic opression. Y’all are so unaware of how blatantly racist and ignorant y’all are.Incredibly incredibly disgusting.
@@illusion9423 Yeah, I wonder why I'd be unwilling to talk to people that were taught that people like me "work as a gang, discourage honest work, keep trying to pick fights and take advantage of them" 🤣
I am living in one of the poorer cities in Germany, Halle (Saale) and even in one of its poorer districts, Neustadt. At the same time, I volunteer at a local "community games club", where we offer a safe space to play boardgames, card games, Tabletop and Pen&Paper with friends, host regular events etc.
I am very proud of what we are doing for the community, especially since we recently started opening up our club for afternoon activities for kids and it has been very well received by them and the parents alike.
Why do I comment this under this video? Because Halle (Saale) has a huge population of refugees, foreigners and non-white germans. Even our main representative in parliament is black. But at the same time, I have never seen a black, Turkish, Syrian or Roma person regularly visit our club. This saddens me, because I often wonder, what could be the reason for that? Are we not advertising enough? Is liking these kinds of activities way less popular in their communities? (I say it like that, because we still are kind of segregated, if not by law, but by social "norms") Or could it even be, that they are just not welcome in the part of the city, where our club is located?
We at least have a lot of queer people and I think even one or two Ukrainian refugees visiting the club regularly, so I have hopes for the future, but still, I often wish I could do more to promote integration, but don't know how.
Go to their part of the city. Try to promote your board-game club. I am sure you'll make many new friends and won't get beaten-up and robbed at all. Adam Something says the more contact you have with Roma people, the less you'll fall for the popular stereotypes.
If they do beat you up, remember to ignore your personal experience as statistically insignificant.
Do tell us how it went.
@@jeronimo196 It's hard to find a good opportunity for doing that, but I think if we cooperate more with the local youth office, we could find a good event in Neustadt, where we could participate.
@@jeronimo196 Why would you get beaten up just for being in the part of the city where they also live? There is no "their part of the city". There is just a part of the city where they also live
@@jeronimo196 You should reconsider your mindset about it. I lived near them for over a decade, seen them on the streets. They are just like us, but more unfortunate mostly due to our fucked society and far less with their past. I do have hatred for those that points the finger, but never thinks before.
@@jeronimo196 "If they do beat you up"
Logically this doesn't make any f_cking sense.
There must be a reason for you to get beat up by someone.
An Average rural American would be infinitely more dangerous given the amount of territorial boundaries than a Roma would ever be.
had an argument with that uncle(tm) he really hates romani people (he never met them tho). he was like "why dont they just buy a house in a nice neighbourhood and ask for better jobs?" and i asked him "would you sell them a house and hire them for your company?" and he said "I WOULD NEVER DO THAT!" i guess it was too much to assume that he would get the point i was trying to make
My great grandmother was Roma. My family doesn’t speak about it. I am the one in the family who inherited some of her traits and I was constantly remarked that I look a bit darker than the rest of them (slightly), it’s not even obvious to most people. However,having a Romanian passport I felt the racism and discrimination. I’ve been treated differently, denied housing I was able to afford, insulted with racial slurs, denied jobs, etc… and all of this being a white woman with certain facial features. These experiences have made me realize how hard it must be for the Roma community and I really do care about this topic. My family, friends and other people around me are blatantly racist and they seem to not care at all… all of the points you covered in this video are extremely familiar to me. I thank you for this video. We need more awareness about the discrimination they face. Why is it ok for people to be racist against this very specific group but not others? Wtf is wrong with our society?
A college professor of mine visited Hungary many years back. When she mentioned that she was heading down to Romania, a lot of people dissuaded her saying that there were thieves and cheats over there. However she ended up having a lovely time in both countries. Anyways I'm sorry for what you had to go through. It's sad that racism is prevalent everywhere.
hello , from what you are saying above you are partially answereing your question from below .. people are not racist over your look .. people are "racist" over the associated behavior .. I had a friend who was gypsy( at origin.. he looked gypsy for me but her family did not maintain any traditions) and worked in the USA, china, Austraia, and Argentina and EU and she told me .. when she worked in the US she told to some firends she was italian .. all people were fine about that .. then that she was of mexican origin .. then US people were changing their behavior .. in argentina all people thouth she was local .. so all ok , in Australia they thought she was "native" and Malaesian .. it was not great .. in China people were racist all the time .. in EU because she knew english and Spanish she said she was argentinian and worked fine in Italy and France. When she mentioned as being of gypsy origin to some friends all changes .. so people do hot have anything with your looks color etc .. but they are risk managing machines and their experience ( or preconceptions) matter, it was usefull in the past and even now. I live in romania .. I see that everyday I get ourside the big cities. In my other comments I said ..roma culture does not mix well with others, might sound wrong but that is the reality .. I never felt superior that I did not like gypsies I fel scared about them based on my concrete experience. Later I learned, and another raoma person confirm this i a comment that their culture accepted the fact that it is ok tu steal .etc if that helps you .. That does not work well anywhere .. so that might be a reason for the hate ..
@@lynncai587 to be fair, that's because of the extremely bad relationship between the two countries, not pure racism. Transylvania has a big Hungarian community, over a million people, and Hungarians feel like that Romanians actively opress and try to get rid off the Hungarian community, while Romanians feel like that the Hungarian community's autonomy movement is purely separatist and their endgoal is returning Transylvania to Hungary. If she was going from Romania to Hungary, she would have been also told that Hungary is full of barbaric mongoloids.
@@cridr You sound like you're seeking attention. Lol
@@mileidyclass sure ..that is the reason....
I think the issue with roma people is not a race issue, but a cultural issue. Growing up in Budapest, I had a lot of connections to roma people. My family was nearly the poorest of all due to family tragedies. That means, all of the roma children around me were richer. Literally we were living on the same street, got the same education (up until middle school), they have had waaay better financial status. But guess who got children at 15? Me or them? Guess who fihished university? Me or them? Obviously they are not inferior racially. They were smart, fun kids, also, good friends. But their family values and traditions differ so much. And not just in bad ways. Their family oriented view of life is pretty admirable. That's why I say that a lot of them truly don't want to integrate. Those who want, can. I have a friend with a roma wife. She integrated pretty well, even though, she came from the worst part of the country.
About the renting of flats... I live in a some kind of commie block. The block owns 12 flats. Those flats are rented. One time our administration decided to let a roma family rent it. To rent a flat like that, you have to be middle class. So it's not about them being poor. They trashed the place completely and moved out without paying anything. Now we had to pay for the renovation.
My mother worked on governmental social programs before 2010. They weren't successful. And not just because the leaders stole the money. But because it was thought that all the problems are coming from them being poor and nothing else. So giving them money, flats, houses should be enough. Well, no. The government issued new houses to roma families. From the reports of the social workers, some families just removed the wooden floor and lit it on fire (heating equipment was provided), some used a certain room as a toilet (toilet was included, they just haven't used it), some just sold the windows and when winter came, they were complaining about the cold, but there were stories that they just sold the house brick by brick and returned to the ghetto.
Yes, saying sht like "Roma people are inferior" is blantant racism and stupidity. But on the other hand, if we do not recognize the cultural differences, their cultural priorities and don't figure out a way how can we incorporate their values to the majority's culture, then we won't solve sht. Being "less racist" and more accepting won't help a lot.
That is basically what happens in a lot of cases here in Spain. We call Roma "gitanos" and and in many cities there are clear streets where they live predominantly, and in the cities I have lived some of those streets are an absolute no go. Like, you could get badly hurt by just stepping there late at night for no reason. Sometimes there are mafias based on families and shit can get real. The main difference is that we mainly try to not enable the kids who come asking for money or tobacco, but in some extreme cases you can even get mugged by a couple of 10 year olds with knives. When I reported it, the police knew exactly who I was talking about and they just sighed. In Spain is better because most of us don't go out of our way hating on them but it's true that a fairly sized chunk try to get away with as much resources as possible from social programs with no intention to integrate or give back outside of their comunity
lefties aren't capable of a thought that deep, they go "you treat them like this it means you're racist" because racism is all they think about, they don't give a shit if it's culture they don't give a shit about anything else other than race.
Nahhh, you gotta be a heroic american on the internet that has no idea how the world works. You cant say real facts like this man, your comment about to be deleted soon watchout
There is no such thing a race. There are however, cultures, and if your culture wants to move toward opportunity education inclusion and human rights it has to be for everyone.
It's a time issue. As in, their culture needs to change the bad parts. And that takes time.
Before I write about my experiences with segregation as a Romanian in this awful situation, I want to say that I hate using the name "Roma" because it often leads to the stigma associated with them being associated with me and my family. People often mistakenly think that Roma and Romanians are the same, so I will be using the term "gypsy" whether you think I'm racist or not.
Due to my very poor family, I had to live in a gypsy neighborhood close to Bucharest, and oh Lord, the segregation was terrible. Despite my family's poverty, being white allowed me to attend much better schools (by Romanian standards, although they were still subpar). The school was not far from a gypsy school where I would often visit friends from my neighborhood. Those schools were overcrowded, barely functional, and had minimal to no security. Fights would constantly break out, vandalism was everywhere, and the underqualified teachers assigned to that school because they failed the teacher exam did absolutely nothing other than stay in the teachers' room. This pattern repeated itself at every level of education. The kindergarten for "Romanians" was nice, small, newly built, colorful, with parks and, of course, fences separating it from the kindergarten for gypsies, which was a tall, gray, overcrowded, communist-style building with no play areas. I know this because I had friends there.
At least I could play with my friends in the neighborhood, or so I thought. However, most of them were forced by their families into child labor to alleviate their family's financial problems. I would often see them on my way home from school, selling probably stolen products on the streets. They were looked down upon, ignored, or treated like garbage, even by my friends from school who were all "Romanians" and were taught by their parents to hate them. But if the scorn and hate weren't enough for the gypsy kids, their parents were not much better. They would often beat them for not bringing in enough money. The parents were often the ones inflicting most of the abuse, beating them, tearing apart their clothes, and sending them to beg on the streets for money. They even subjected their children to sexual assault. The children had to live in decrepit, fallen-down houses in inhumane conditions, alongside their 10 other brothers and sisters, because the parents didn't want to spend any money on birth control.
The next section might be disturbing as I will discuss gypsies, mostly children, with whom I had contact and who died.
However, those families couldn't afford to feed so many kids, so most of the time they only kept the boys. The girls existed mostly for sexual favors or to be married off to someone else for money. With so many kids living in such terrible conditions, many of them died. I was friends with some kids who died due to these living conditions. The typical causes of death were starvation, physical injuries, diseases, and wild dogs. I knew one kid who was killed by the numerous wild dogs in our vicinity, and I heard of three other cases like this that happened in my neighborhood. These kids would go to abandoned factories for Prune Mirabelle trees to have something to eat, as those places usually had the highest number of wild dogs. I myself have been chased by them many times. Despite all these deaths, the government never made any attempt to do something about those wild dogs. If I, a Romanian, had died there, perhaps something would have been done. I also met two girls, sisters, who were sexually assaulted by their parents, then abandoned and left as orphans. At that time, they were living under a tree, sleeping on cardboard boxes. The government didn't even try to get them into an orphanage. They died of hypothermia during a strong rainfall, and to make matters worse, they were right next to the hospital where my mother worked. Imagine dying of hypothermia next to a HOSPITAL because the hospital wasn't for gypsies but for Romanians.
I actually got severely injured once and broke my arm. The forearm bone was no longer connected to the rest of my body, and the closest hospital was one for gypsies. Initially, the doctors asked for money to move me up on the waiting list, only to commit malpractice and then put me on another waiting list where I remained for two weeks. During that time, my mother had to bring extra food because I was only receiving one small meal per day, and the doctors did nothing to repair my arm. In the end, my mother pulled some strings to get me transferred to another hospital on the other side of the city, which was, of course, a hospital for "Romanians." While my friends, who were often beaten by their parents and bitten by dogs, had underage pregnancies, lived in crumbling houses, and had to go to that hospital where the likelihood of being killed was higher, I went to a hospital for Romanians that did its best to solve my problems. I even had enough food from the hospital, a park to stroll in, and a TV to pass the time. The place was clean, modern, and looked nice. So despite living in a gypsy neighborhood, I still received the Romanian treatment.
Now, I have grown up and moved to Germany, where I am often treated like a gypsy. But honestly, life is still better than living in Romania as a Romanian. However, I have severed contact with all the gypsies I knew from home because over time, society turned them into the same kind of people who made their lives like that. They treat their children the same way their parents did and never help their families out of poverty. They are just as unable to read and write as their parents. It has been over a decade since the time when the above-described things were happening. I have never returned to that neighborhood since I was last beaten up when I went to see acquaintances. But from what I have seen more recently, as an outsider, nothing has changed or too little has changed. And it doesn't look like anything is changing. The occasional park for kids, repainting infrastructure to make it look better, and adding garbage bins to prevent people from creating piles of garbage in the open are merely band-aid solutions. The system is still as rotten as it was ten years ago. The garbage piles have grown larger, and the bins have been vandalized. It is clear that to make a difference, as a country, we need to help improve their financial situations rather than just beautifying the place so they can suffer in a nicer environment.
Thank you for reading this far in this extensive comment that is much older than the video. I hope this helps you see how dark the segregation in Romania is and how the system is at fault for often raising gypsies into monsters who do nothing to alleviate the stigma placed on them and instead make it worse.
ah yes sure, sure, let's keep giving them more stuff to break and vandalize right? "oh look they vandalized the bins we put, must mean we are treating them badly and we need to give them more bins right?" can't you see the fricking discrepancy in what you are saying? if they didn't have such a bad culture they wouldn't have vandalized anything, they would send their kids to school, they would stop stealing and living like ravages, they would find jobs and at least try to assimilate to society, I'm not saying they should remove all their culture and take another culture, culture is culture and no matter whos it is, some of it might be nice, but they can't pretend to be able to live like they do and still receive free and nice stuff from tax payers
Thank you for sharing
I wholeheartedly agree with your experience as a fellow romanian. And although i hate our corrupt government and all the people in power here, i cant excuse gypsies actions just because of their upbringing. We all have a choice. I know just how nightmarish life as a poor person is, but when they do some nightmarish actions of their own then i cant just say "Ah theyre good people, the system made them like that". Their life circumstances might have played a major part in them becoming bad but in the end they still gotta be held responsible. Too bad no one is held responsible here in romania... Gypsy or not
Your perspective has helped me to learn and to better empathize. Thank you.
A lot of other Roma communities are just the same segregated without infrastucture or drinking water at the margins of the villages in which their own ancestors were slaves, but they don’t even know it cause of the history not being acknowledged.
Thanks for bringing awareness and actually shedding a light behind the curtains and trying to actually explain the whole process of transgenerational segregation, how embedded it is in society and how the government fails to protect everyone and especially racialized groups.
I'm part Roma (Lovari), but I can "pass" as non-Roma because of my name being Scandinavian.
It is a bizarre experience to be talking to people who have known you for years, telling them you're Roma, and then watching their entire demeanor change because they "just thought you had dark features." Even more bizarre to go through official systems via online means (university admission, doctor's appointments, and apartment hunting for instance) where you're treated like a person, and then be treated like a criminal when meeting the same person you've been emailing face to face.
Thank you for making this video. Roma are generally really private about their culture and you addressed this in a way that focused on Europe's reactions to and assumptions about us, rather than the cultural reasons some non-Roma may use as an excuse for their racist behavior. Great video.
I'm half Romanichal, half Irish Traveller, I pass for an English person of Irish descent with my name. I've never seen someone's demeanour change so fast as letting someone I thought was ok know my background
I couldn't help but notice when I was looking for a job, and they had those equalities forms, and I filled them in honestly, i got no interviews whatsoever. As soon as I lied and put my ethnicity as Irish, i got offers and eventually a job
How about you look inwards and at your own culture instead of blaming society at large. Those kinds of assumptions do not come out of nothing. I know thats not the easy road, and it is easier to try to ride the latest wave of tolerance in western society.
@@emileriksen2481 Ah yes anti-semitism
@@renlevy411 have a cry
4:13
I can understand most of what's written so I will explain it for anyone interested.
It's basically an ad for a sale in the form of licitation of 10 young gypsy men, 7 women and 3 girls adding that they are in fine condition.
The time (in the noon), the date (8th of may) and the location (a monastery) of the licitation are also mentioned.
What's the cost? And does it inckude VAT?
Could you buy them individually or is that a package deal?
@@Kr0noZ it doesn't say but i don't think most people would be able to afford 20 new mouths to feed in one go and neither would they feel like its safe to hold 20 potentially mistreated strangers around their farm
@@JulianSildenLanglo i don't know. There are some abreviations which i don't know the meaning of, but i don't think it's about taxes
Full translation for anyone curious
To be sold
A first batch of servants or
Gypsy slaves
Through an afternoon auction
At St Elias Monastery
On 8th May 1852
The batch is composed of 18 people
10 boys, 7 women & 3 girls (epic math)
IN FINE CONDITION
As a brown American, one of the things that really shocked me about living in Europe is how many racial/ethnic issues are boiling under the surface. America may have a bad reputation on race issues, but at least our racial issues are widely discussed, and only fringe groups deny outright that they exist. Living in France, I experienced every bit as much racism as I did in the US, if not more. I'm Native American, so I would often be assumed to be Roma, or North African, and both of those groups deal with a LOT of bias in Europe.
I was also surprised by how much blatant anti-semitism is in Europe. Like in many places it seems like Jewish people are still very much thought of as a different race of people, and not in a good way.
I am curious though, when you told them you're Native American, did the Europeans chill out a bit? Or did they persist being racists little shits?
I hate how freaking smug Europeans act in front of Americans thinking they're more "progressive" when the reality is that Americans and the British are miles ahead of the rest of Europe in progressivism.
Europe has a lot more history. European nations are largely homogeneous along ethnic and cultural lines and centuries of wars have been fought over that.
Large influxes of foreigners who do not integrate are a threat to the centuries old native cultures of Europe.
The rhetoric that European nations must be multicultural despite nobody calling for African or Asian nations to be the same strikes us as disingenuous and an attack on our countries. For many years we have accepted this but as problems seem to worsen and our governments can no longer guarantee the safety and welfare of the native population. The people are getting angry.
That anger will be aimed at the violent minorities who have set up cultural enclaves and the leftists who have brought them here/lobby to keep them here.
To clarify as well: to most it isn't about skin colour. But about culture, Muslim and Gypsies especially have stuck to their own culture for generation and have chosen to stay foreigners. To me, a black man can be a European if he lives by the norms and values of the country he lives in and properly speaks the language.
@@MaestroBlur Gypsies have been Europe for a thousand years. Most of Western Europe are descendants of the Germanic tribes that stormed the borders of the Roman Empire who was trying desperately to stop the mass immigration and ended up being destroyed by these very Germanic tribes who set up different barbarian kingdoms in the territories of the former great Empire.
Point is, Gypsies are as native as you Germanic people. Both of you didn't belong but came here anyway.
@@MaestroBlur I think that's a gross oversimplification of European history, and actually, comes off like an excuse. There's not a single European country I would describe as homogenous, not now, nor historically. Many different cultures exist within Europe, and if it was simply a matter of conforming, then why are Jewish folks still so heavily stigmatized in Europe? They have integrated, even more so since WWII, yet still face discrimination and hostility.
If you did not want brown Europeans and their cultures in your countries, that's something your ancestors should have thought of before they set off colonizing around the world. Historically, Europeans have forcibly exported their culture around the world. Now the favor is being returned. The good news is your language and culture isn't being made illegal, which is far more than Europeans ever did for my culture.
On the grand scale, it's worked out pretty well for the US, even factoring in the racial conflict growing pains. Immigration keeps our population young, our labor needs met, and our economy strong. But we also have affirmative action and policies that promote integration and provide opportunity. From my perspective having lived in both the US and Europe, AA is a critical policy for bettering society for everyone, but its still controversial, even in the US.
As someone who volunteered in Poland during the ru invasion outbreak, I've faced discrimination towards Roma refugees. But on the other side, they were the most problematic group causing a lot of trouble. Even though I understand that it comes in big part from a lack of integration options for them, but this behavior makes it hard for people to get warmer toward them. So it's a bit of a vicious cycle
Yeah there was also accident that black people were treaten bad as a polish person I remember that of course- but its war. And people dont think normally so this one is... not really an argument
@@Jimmyneutron19988 It was later confirmed that this allegation was untrue. It was something about going into Poland.
I've also volunteered at the train station, had the same experience with causing problems. For real it was not pleasant experience after that I didn't wanted to volunteer for long.
I was never racist against gypsies, in primary school I had "friend" who was one of them, he was little bit problematic but he was OK. I am living next to many gypsies, but they assimilated and nobody bothers them.
I think it's a cultural difference. For example if someone who was living in a silent village will have problems adapting to flat in the city. They will report that it's very annoying for them to hear footsteps, doors closing, playground noises, cars. Someone who was living in the city for they whole live won't notice.
@@bartomiejnozka8992 czy czasem nie w Krakowie?
@@antont462 Możliwe :p
As a south american who migrated to western europe 2 years ago, I still struggle to undestand why people hate this specific group of people and how they can recognize and differentiate them from other people on the street.
Not just culturally, their faces too, I remember a girl dressed in office clothes was passing by a busker and he started playing a Romani song, to which she started dancing immediately, everyone was like, "yeah, tsiganochka". It is surreal people catch so fast. I often can't tell Italians from Romanians or Romas. At all.
Haha south America is one of more racist areas in the world, just look at Argentina and mass genocide of indigenous only 100 years ago and they have no access to schools,medical care and recently there land has been used to frack and houses been destroyed, also the few black familys who survived genocides have zero rights. 😂😂 Brasil are basically ethnic cleansing there minorities indigenous with the new,law today which removes protection for remote tribes
Roma tend to have darker skin and almost all of them have black hair and brown eyes, while native Europeans are light-skinned.
@@viktorthefirst yeah, but today a lot of people in Europe might share those features but not be Roma or related to the culture and particularly not related to the clans that earn them the bad fame, I think a lot of roma that integrate start hiding their culture and really once they do that is hard to tell them from any other immigrant or person living in Europe, and singing a song doesn't seem a reason to start behaving like a racist towards someone
@@Solstice261 well many people had a bad experience where roma people robbed/assaulted them. To me, it only ever happens from this group. Not even a robbery, but just random beating for no reason. Its quite a big reason to distrust/hate that group. To so many people, the only violence they ever encounter is from roma people, so its hard to not generalize it to the whole group...
As a Ukrainian, I often feel guilty about how well our refugees are treated compared to some other minority groups, such as Roma, Syrians, etc, despite the fact that they suffered no less, and in many cases even more.
And I think it's sadly due to the fact that they are simply precived as "non-white".
My Ukrainian friends tell me the exact same thing... It goes to show that even you guys noticed the bias. Unfair that you should feel guilty because it's far from your fault as refugees. But racism is strong in Europe, unfortunately
Europeans went to wars against communism in Asia but refused to help whit European countries conquered by commies...
When Russia is defeated and Ukraine makes it into the EU, make sure to fight for better minority and refugee rights.
Because Ukrainian people escape from war and work in their new countries. Don't compare them to this parasites.
Belorussians fleeing Lukashenko werent treated nicely either though. Maybe as not as bad as Arabs but definitely no tolerance, even though they are fleeing the government
I have very conflicted thoughts on Roma on one hand I've had very bad experiences with them but also very good ones since I grew up around them. The thing that really brings sour feelings towards Roma is due to a blood feud that is unfortunally traditional. The Roma family that my family is very close to got into a feud after a precieved slight after a drunken arguement had their eldest son murdered. The first person in their family for generation to be sent to university murdered and it spiraled with revenge over and over it lasted for so many years it made me cynical and very critical of Roma culture and I realize it is not fair to look at all of them with suspicion. It hurts being suspicious of due to personal experience even though logically I know they are just people like the rest of us yet I can't shake that irrational emotional response. Another gripe I have is that the Roma family that I consider friends to this day are considered race traitors by other Roma since they are actively part of society. I think the self-segregation and distrust towards everyone who isn't Roma comes from centuries of persecution but it still hits that irrational and emotional part of my brain. I want to be able to let go of this negative view in the future but it feels like I'm stuck in this vicious cycle of bigotry towards majority of Roma and having great love for those Roma who has been close to me all my life.
To be honest the views you have is actually surprisingly similer to how Adolf Hitler view the few certain Jews Adolf Hitler like. just google Emil Maurice and Eduard Bloch and you will know what I’m talking about.
There's something about the way people will cast blame across a whole group. The "Them" is always monolithic, all the same and negative traits apply to all. But for "Us" we're always misunderstood, picked on, and victimised.
With violence, the same people will see a violent member of another group and believe it proves the stereotypes. But a violent act of a member of their own group and they will even celebrate it as a show of pent up frustration, righteous anger at how victimised "our" group is.
A while back I gave a superthanks to you in a livestream because I appreciated your efforts "to make things suck less." You seemed puzzled at that wording, but you hit that note again here. Identifying clear, concrete examples of how we willfully make our world suck more and put forth effort and energy toward the goal of encouraging people not do that (whether it be through presenting better alternatives or shaming unrepentant shitheads) is exactly what I was talking about. Thank you again.
Absolutely right! I seriously admire his ambition to set an example of how we can do better in society, both in how we treat our cities and each other
I think you're a fellow Nerdfighter 🤝
I am from Russia. When I was 5-11 years old, my best friend on the playground was Roma. We lived in the same apartment block. He was from a "normal" family with no shady stuff. Though there were some Roma "characteristics" - when you entered their apartment, you suddenly felt like you'd teleported into the French Versailles with so much fake gold and ostentatious "richness". But they were nice people and they liked me. Once, they even took me to a Roma wedding - they rented a huge hotel space, with hundreds of guests and relatives, a lot of dancing, and loud music (ai na ne na ne!). It was fun.
Being friends with him was natural. We didn't care about nationalistic biases and just played together.
When we grew up, I met him again and we talked about the life of Romas. He told me that during Soviet times, the state forced Roma to abandon their "nomadic" way of life, compelling them to work and sending Roma kids to school like everyone else. Also, the state built the Roma Theater (Google 'Romen Theatre') and it became a huge cultural and intellectual center for Roma people, aswell as offering job opportunities for many and good instrument to improve public image of Roma people.
Doesn't really tip the scale for Russia does it.
Same here in turkey. While the roma still live in bad conditions, they are mostly considered regular turks. It also helps that they live in the most open minded areas turkey. We even had 2 roma MPs last term.
@@ryan266846 what do you mean?
but others who still live in their own communities and haven't integrated during Soviet times, are still in poverty and criminality, and racism against them is common
Iam also from russia. Soviet Union did a Lot for Roma people. But many of Them didnt want to abondon their Traditions. Including Child marriage and a Stronger Patriarch system where women have to marry Young and are Not allowed to Work in good jobs
I remember when I was a kid there were a lot roma kids in my home town, none of them went to public schools because they parents told them not to. Their parents forced them to beg on streets for money. The government tried to convince roma people to send their kids to school but they didn’t want, they even protested. At the same time all poor Polish kids (even poorer then the roma) went to school. So do you think the poverty is an issue here or the culture?
I think it's a shame that many people think saying culture is a problem is the same as saying a race is the problem.
I'm from spain.
Yes the situation here is much better, but in some regions discrimination and casual racism against them is very much present (but much less serious than the examples presented).
This is mostly seen in the northern part of Spain
You really can't help being racist to them, its natural.
Oh thank god, someone sensible! I've seen way too many times where someone is spouting anti-Roma rhetoric and I'm just left asking "Wait, so how is this any different from any other form of racism?". The answer usually of course boils down to "Well you see, because they are Roma, and you know how they are." Really appreciate seeing something that affirms that I am not the crazy one about this!
I know, sometimes I feel like the crazy one for not thinking that way too lmao. Glad I'm not alone.
This is so true, feeling like the crazy one, holy shit.
I noticed that about Europeans online. They would decry American racism and when asked about roma... they turn into absolute monsters.
@@Cyberwar101 oh my god i see that too!! It literally fucked with my head so much i couldn't eat, actually insane
they aren't a race but a culture and the problem is cultural.
Every supposed non racist country has at least one group they're outrageously racist towards, you just gotta learn where to look. I remember seeing people talking about how "yeah, the west is really racist, but that's not a problem in places like Japan" and just laughing my ass off
Japan is a country uniquely racist to even Japanese too, if they have dark skin, or light hair, or stand out in ANY way, the bullying is totally state-sponsored.
Absolutely can attest this.
Indonesians, especially grown up rural, are fine with people until they mention that they are Chinese.
Skin color isn't much of a problem in this place, but if your eye slants and have mixed name... You'd face at best razor sharp glares and absurd amount of insult; at worst, actual community wide apathy or even harrasment.
Evan Hadfield made a killer video on the "untouchable" class in Japan.
Japan was so exclusive of any foreigners they had to make up their own minority to hate on.
Oh and Japan stand on the same leg as Türkiye in genocide denial.
Oh and Japan have a fun word "hafu" which basically means "half blood" for any person on mixed Japanese/other race.
And be careful of Hokkaido, some places simply won't serve foreigners.
Maybe if Japan taught themselves about what they did in Manchuria and Nanking they could be more like western nations, notably Germany.
Racism is a problem in every single country. A country as big as Japan would never be so homogeneous if not for racism.
Japan is the most Racist, elitist place I've ever visited. Still really cool though.
I'm Romanian and I gotta say, the Romani-Romanian relations are getting better since their music became popular around here and also their products (like flowers, vegetables/fruits, brooms and so on), in Constanta there is a neighborhood in the middle of the city called Piata Chiliei where you can find Roma sellers that live there and we generally respect their work, they're good people and respectful, they party like no one else and they sell their own products (especially roses, those are so beautiful..), people here kinda forgot about the whole slavery thing or at least they never heard about it, Roma music became VERY popular in the past 100 or so years and we understand their struggle to survive cause Romanians are finding themselves in the same boat as the Romani lately, reason why you have so many Romanian immigrants. The general problem here is how the government treat the Romani, because depending on what type of environment they find themselves in, they might or might not integrate/result in criminal activity. It's not their fault imo.
individually it is their fault, as a group it's the fault of their culture
@@BusinessWolf1 they are the problem, and they are the solution aswell, isn't it better to just go back to where they belong ? INDIA
As someone who was down on his luck and actually got to live in a building complex where around half of inhabitants were Roma, i can say, i had mild annoyances with exactly one Romani person(loud music, no personal boundaries, that's it), the rest were of them were extremely chill.
The worst people in that building complex were my fellow countrymen, they were druggie trash of the worst kind.
I had a friend in elementary school class who is middle class, just a regular kid, good at foreign language and geography, not great at math, your most average kid. After we became old enough to realize that he's a Gypsy "disguised" as a "normal" kid we all stopped handing out with him, I think his family left town.. literally, evil society.
So you and your friend all stopped hanging out with him. Because yall found out he was a Gypsy?
@@cloudynguyen6527 I think this is a comment about recognising past mistakes and fixing attitudes.
You should have a visit to the town I live to see if you ever gonna feel bad
@@tonivoul1971 I think you missed the point of this video.
@@tomaccino what was the point I missed?
I'm Spanish gypsy. 'gitano'. Strangely enough we are maybe the only ethnic minority in Spain that is accepted as actually being Spanish. The Spanish are very racist as per recent la Liga discussion. But as a gitano there is no question that we are Spanish and never any question about us being foreign and needing to go back home or anything. There are prejudices. But there are always prejudices by everyone towards everyone
Me parece que una de las razones es porque el flamenco tiene fuertes raíces en los gitanos de Andalucia por lo que decir que los gitanos no son españoles sería decir que el género musical más famoso de España no es español
Interesting, I wonder what caused that state of affair, because in France there is a lot of casual racism against Roma / gypsy people and many people don't consider them as French, cf. the usual "they should go back to their country" type of remarks.
Some people have borderline genocidal comments about them, and it pains me to hear it
@@aaronhernandez2782 agreed. (Sorry I was brought up in England so whilst I can read Spanish perfectly well writing it is far more difficult!)
Generally we are far more integrated into society too in soain. Like...we don't live a traveller lifestyle, like how Roma community in England live in caravans and park up/ take over public or farm land. That angers a lot of people here (myself included) because they either steal someone's private property or ruin public spaces with zero consequences. They also often do not have birth certificates here in the UK so the police have a real problem prosecuting them as they technically don't exist on paper and get up and leave to another part of the country and use another name as they have no formal I.d.. That immunity from the law does also lead to more anti social behaviour by Roma people here in the UK.
But in Spain we live in houses and have social security numbers and birth certificates etc making us part of society
@@djohnson6585 could you expand on the Liga thing that says Spaniards are racists? I'm not sure I understand what you mean
@@guillaumelagueyte1019 i mean..there is SOME casual racism. Like being called dirty or prejudices about being violent (which tbf the Roma culture is very macho and prideful and resort to violence more than getting law involved to sort problems. If someone disrespects you then you should fight them attitude). But I've never encountered or heard of gitanos being seen as foreigners. Infact it surprises me just how racist my family in Spain can be towards morrocans and non-natives considering once it was the case that our ancestors would've been subjected to the same rhetoric
There's a saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"
I think it's appropriate here, becasue while it's a good idea to help the roma people, no amount of social programs and support will actually solve the problems they have without a large fraction of the roma people themselves wanting it.
Hopefully initiatives like this can help those that want help, but I've met enough roma who think of the well meaning social workers are foolish rubes.
the system is not able to separate them, the good from the bad because it just sees them as a whole. And it's not working!!! You can't put ppl in the same basket. And yes integration support will work if done properly!
bro they speak as if they haven't been to the ghetto... as a bulgarian citizen i can say personaly i've made friends with many gypsies that want to be integrated, but i cannot never be a friend with someone who lives like a pig, who takes advantage of a system that enables theirs bad lifestyle and so on...
You can say that about just about any group, really, but that doesn't make it acceptable to discriminate against individuals based on their ethnicity.
Obviously there are many Roma individuals and groups which don't "want help," but to discriminate against them across the board without treating them as individuals is to effectively ensure that you are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy for them. You can't expect people to integrate when you have decades and centuries of oppression towards them to work out which has led to them being far more distrusting and with far more poverty than those of other "groups" in their communities on average.
You can acknowledge statistical or cultural problems without needing to allow your governments and people in general to actively enforce group punishments.
Of course, I recognize that not everybody shares my values. My values which say that we should strive to be just to individuals, and not mistreat them based on something like traits they were born with that they have literally no control over (like their ethnicity). My values which say we should try to help people who are less fortunate to live better lives, even if this is sometimes inconvenient or requires actual effort - because it's the right thing to do.
If you instead have values which think that group punishment is acceptable, perhaps being collectivist in nature and believing that the good of the whole justifies taking any action at all against individuals - then you might disagree with me. Such logic of course could be used to justify genocides, segregation, and just about any mistreatment of others in the name of a "greater good" while countless people innocent only by matter of their birth are harmed.
@@echomjp
As unfortunate as it is, sometimes discrimination makes sense.
One of the examples in the video was that it can be much harder for Roma to find places to rent.
Put yourself in the shoes of a landlord.
Who would you rather rent to?
A roma who is more likely to not pay rent on time, invite many people to live with them or just trash the place.
Or someone from a different ethnicity, who on average is less of a risk.
Something else that doesn't help discrimination against roma in Eastern Europe is that a substantial part actually appear to live quite lavishly.
I say appear, because a lot of it is conspicuous consumption. They have large well decorated houses, drive good looking cars, wear tons of gold chains etc.
The ones who do this are usually thieves, who go to rich countries, such as France or Germany, steal and pawn stuff there. Make a lot of money and then go back to Eastern Europe to spend all that money in a few weeks or months, then the cycle repeats.
If you've ever talked with these people you'd find that they very much don't want your help. They see themselves as above non-roma. Because in their view, they have more freedom and they make more money than those who work for a wage/salary.
Don't get me wrong. There are many good hard working roma, just like there are many scumbags from any ethnicity.
The thing I'm trying to get accross is that a lot of the ideas presented in the video about "helping roma" are very unlikely to work.
I just don't see this bleeding heart stuff being anything other than a giant money pit.
@@ZealotOfSteal "Put yourself in the shoes of a landlord.
Who would you rather rent to?
A roma who is more likely to not pay rent on time, invite many people to live with them or just trash the place.
Or someone from a different ethnicity, who on average is less of a risk."
I understand of course that it's "higher risk" for individual landlords and the like to rent to certain groups, or give jobs to certain groups, or so on. But as I said, you can apply that same logic to just about any group - not just Roma.
I feel a bit of sympathy for a landlord that has to take a larger risk than they would prefer, but only a bit. Because ultimately those who own housing and who are capable of renting out said housing in the first place are already part of an economic elite on a global scale, mostly - they are already so privileged that any increase in "risk" I feel is a minor social concern.
Still, what could be done to help with that problem is to provide things like government-subsidies for those who provide housing in a fair manner and can show they aren't actively discriminatory. Or you could simply provide programs for affordable housing construction aimed towards helping those who are economically disadvantaged in the first place, which would disproportionately help Roma. We have the same problem with black Americans over in the USA - but at least they aren't legally discriminated against. Even without legal discrimination though, historical discrimination and poverty can make it much harder for certain groups to do much - especially when that history specifically makes them "higher risk."
"Something else that doesn't help discrimination against roma in Eastern Europe is that a substantial part actually appear to live quite lavishly."
This same rhetoric is used for many poor people in America, who are called "welfare queens" or the like. People who take advantage of state-welfare and game our systems to basically live a "life of luxury" without working. Such as those who are fully supported financially by a boyfriend or girlfriend, yet don't report that and then receive thousands of dollars in state benefits to use however they please.
Yet even if some people take advantage of this, that shouldn't be an excuse to mistreat individuals.
Roma should be treated as individuals socially, as should anyone. As far as them being "higher risk" is concerned, while that is a problem for those who might have to take that risk - the alternative, effective segregation and discrimination - is far worse in the long run in my view.
"I just don't see this bleeding heart stuff being anything other than a giant money pit."
It is true that many ideas to "help" large groups of people end up being a waste of time practically speaking, but I would like to see evidence of this before jumping to conclusions. 90% of the time I see people claim that such measures are going to fail, these claims are made before any research or basic attempts have been made. It wouldn't be difficult to do something like pilot programs for example, to take a handful of Roma families and provide them with more stable employment and education - then see how well their children do compared to Roma who aren't given those opportunities.
I am Czech, living in Přerov, wich also has one of the biggest ghettos in Czech Republic. Last couple of weeks, I was thinking about this issue, and this video really helped me to concentrate around it. Thank you
Ahoj, taky jsem o tomhle tématu docela dost přemýšlel. Došel si k nějaké zajímavé myšlence?
🫠🫠 I've passed through Přerov 2 months ago, all I saw is tens of paneláky, they might work well for Czech families, but for me that part of the city just looks like a fukin ghetto!
As someone who grew up in Sweden in the 80's, I can confirm that the outright hostility and racism against "gypsys" was strong and widespread. I still, to this day, hold inherent biases against roma people, even though I don't want to. It's so deeply ingrained into me by my upbringing.
The recent influx of Roma people from Romania and Bulgaria made the situation worse
@@metodiusm428 why? If it's all not true what people say, there shouldn't be a problem.
yup much of "leftist sweden" is still very racist torwards roma
that's messed up
I never noticed racism against roma growing up in Sweden in the 90's but then I never met anyone I knew was roma either. Only later did I encounter people who were completely openly racist against roma, apparently expecting nobody to object. Very wtf experience.
Then again as a white Swede i never really noticed open racism until I walked around with some friends who weren't native Swedes.
When my mother was a child, all the local teenage girls had a crush on this one Roma boy.
It would be many years later that she finally understood why the boy's mother had a number tattooed on her arm, though😔
(in case it wasn’t obvious, it was a _KZ-Häftlingsnummer_ - an identification number from a concentration camp)
Disgusting how half the Roma population perished and still today are the group who face the least justice in Europe.
Antisemitism is still a big problem for the Jews who remained in Europe, but European societies at least apologise to the Jewish community for their role in the Holocaust.
Crazy how no one is born racist /s
"we segregate the roma kids because they are problematic" my brother in Christ, Allah, Buddha and anyone else, fixing problematic children is one of the most important parts of education, you are there to EDUCATE THEM.
Okay, lets fix them. 'The parent takes them out of school - because they need to help him steal (if men) or because they need to marry someone at the age of 13 (if woman)'.
Roma people abuse the system - it takes a really "happy worldview" to think that helping them out is an easy task.
When I went to University in Budapest, there was only one student with roma backround in my 'class'. She told me, that as far as she knows, she is the only one out of the 30+ children in her primary school class to ever reach university. Some of them couldn't even finish in secondary education. Witch is pretty sad.
While i am not Roma, I am half-Greek half-German, I got a darker skin complexion and I've had experienced plenty of racism from since i was a kid from people that thought i was Roma. The issue is pretty bad here in Europe and it sucks that even some of the progressive folk refuse to either acknowledge the issue or are just straight up racist themselves. Thank you for shining some light on this
Roma, not Roman, Roman means citizen of Rome.
@@cheeseflavoredsoda3262 my bad, didnt see the typo there
well it's germny what did u expect?!
@@neznamtija8081 i live in greece. I have only lived in germany for around 5-6 years.
@@toli7176 kannst du deutsch? du behauptest dass du teilweise deutscher abstammung bist??
german speaking countries r all pretty xenophobic n racist overall
I am gipsy from slovakia and i live near hungarian border. I am happy that there are people like you. I often feel like, there is not a lot of people which still care about this topic. I liked part where you said, that being gipsy is like living on hard difficulty :D To be honest, i would rather not think about it. I just try to live like other people. I was born as gipsy and i wil die as gipsy :D There is no point of crying about it, complaining about it. However, its important to talk about theese problems we have. Its important to say your opinion and try to educate people, help people understand. I would like to say more and properly thank you. But its really difficult for me to use english. I still have a lot to learn.
This was good English, well done.
Wish you the best
your english is really good! stay safe bro
Hang in there, we know and we haven't forgotten you. Someday everything would be fine
If you really wants equal rights create your own country like the Jews , we are both the same “sub human group “ the different we fought to have a state the sad reality is tha
@@Naortsa I mean India could possibly grant them OCI (basically an alternative to dual citizenship that India offers for Indian Diaspora instead of true dual citizenship).
Here from Spain. Had some Roma classmates through the years. Was very saddened that mid year, their families took them away so they help them work in the amenities at all regional festivities (all kind of portable stores and whatnot). So yes, it's definitely something to do with poverty. But also, they live immersed in a very shady and difficult culture that is very hard for them to escape, even when that poverty aspect is no longer present: from violence to trafficking. The part about the poverty not being always a factor is because I know some families first hand. One of them lives in a house bigger than mine at the other side of the street, and that family specifically is shady AF. The sad part for me is that even when the kids want to, their families don't let them, so the cycle continues. As far as my experience goes with them, that's what I have seen, and it truly saddens me.
I asked a Swedish guy I knew about the Roma in Europe because he kept bringing up racism in America and he went on a full rant on how they do nothing and are worthless (definitely not racist mhm)
no it's not racist to despise someone with a shitty culture like the gypsies'
bro they actually don't work at all i saw maybe 5 at max in my entire life that had a job. Almost every time someone tried getting or stealing something from me it was a gypsy. If i would ask any person my country everyone would say they steal young/old doesn't matter. they are not hated on looks like the blacks its just that they don't work and steal
The main problem with some of the traditional Roma groups is that they are, CULTURALLY, not allowed to assimilate and integrate.
I have good Roma friends and neighbors (well, my brothers neighbor). My friend married and when he had kids moved into the apartment next to my brothers. His kids go to same school of my nieces, etc.
Couple weeks ago, we were at the lunch party for one of my nieces Baptism, and we (group of friends/neighbors) spoke for a few hours about the "Gypsy problem".
My friend and his wife (both Roma) explained how a lot of Roma groups are not allowed to integrate at all. They are ostracized and kicked out of their family/groups if they try to live among non Roma or marry outside of their groups etc.
My friends own family disowned him simply because they decided to live among non-Roma and have their kids go to schools and have non-Roma friends, etc.
Thankfully he tells me things are changing fast and this sort of cases are rarer by the day.
Also, he used to be a target of discrimination/racism when he was a kid (he is 38 now), but he says nowadays his kids/himself are no longer suffering from the same things anymore, and that the state support he received over the years was a big part of why he ended up "leaving" his friends and family, because he got a proper house and subsidies to help his family. He got a free, and later, low rent, apartment that he now bought under a special arrangement and his kids have subsidies for free school meals and books etc until university.
When both his kids reach 18, he will lose all "special Roma" subsidies and be treated like any other person/family.
I'm very well familiar (as an observer) with the Portuguese and Spanish "Gypsy" integration over the last couple decades, and let me tell you, it hasn't been easy, but nowadays, the "integrated gyspys" far far outnumber the non integrated Gypsy groups or the Gypsy criminal clans and scammers etc you see in tourist spots for example... And most gypsys are now just like any other Spaniard or Portuguese in the eyes of the "natives", in fact, a lot of their cultural traditions were incorporated by the locals, like the music, dances, etc.
I honestly thing the integration of Roma people has been much harder than normal, much harder than middle eastern people for example, specifically for the reason I mentioned at the start. For many years, Roma simply refused to, and the way they were treated for many years sure as shit did not help. Sadly many are still badly treated, but, at least in the places I know well, like Portugal and Spain, its incredible rare to see Gypsy camps, full of trash everywhere, and temporary "houses" made of scrap metals and whatnot. These were VERY COMMON 20-30 years ago.
It's sad how long its taking, but I truly believe that this issue will be completely gone in my lifetime.
this happens to communities often when they are faced with outside pressure, they become more heavily coded in order to make themselves impenetrable
for example, this happened to minority religions throughout history, they adopted more and more different rituals and customs and defined what a true believer would have to be (this is what's meant by "code", the code of conduct) to fortify their group against outsiders and reinforce loyalty
but also i've heard zizek made the point that cultures only exist as such when they aren't dissolvable in the global outside
and when they are, it's too late, all that's left is costumes and dances
I think the thing that people need to understand is that when it comes to insular community is like this, they are usually insular explicitly because of outside discrimination. This insular nature often leaves them vulnerable to exploitation from powerful people, both inside and outside the group, which leads to them becoming even more insular.
I think when people see this, a lot of times their first instinct is to try and force somebody out of that insular group. If you see somebody in a cult, your first instinct is to bring them away from the cult to try and talk to them right? The problem is, the group usually prepares them for this kind of confrontation, which only makes them even more insular, because it's seen as the outside world trying to destroy their group (and in some cases, they are correct).
The real solution is to empower people who are already part of that group to make internal changes. Instead of paternalistically trying to force these groups to assimilate with dominant cultures, instead we need to just remote countercultural voices within that group who can actually connect with the people being discussed. It's way easier to get somebody out of a Cult if it's a former cult member talking to them rather than a stranger.
This isn't necessarily to compare Roma people to a cult, more so that the oppressive power structures that exist in marginalized groups (be it organized crime, powerful religious leaders, nationalists, etc) need to be solved from within rather than forced upon them.
I grew up in an area full of roma people and my family were always extremely condescending towards them, especially 13-14 year old kids who already had kids of their own (which is absolutely disgusting, but it's not THEIR fault). My parents were also really scared I could get snatched away at any moment and instilled that fear in me
EDIT: as a spaniard, i thought it would be interesting to add that the word "gitano" (gypsy in spanish) is NOT a slur. Gitanos themselves use it and are not offended by the term. Instead, they are offended when people use the word in the sense of "thief" and other similarly derogatory and incorrect ways. Gitano referring to a roma person is encouraged and perfectly fine. It's in English and other languages where the word is seen as offensive. Just wanted to clarify in case you see gitano be used to refer to roma people in spanish; if it's being used as an insult to anyone regardless of ethnicity and with the meaning of "thief", "unorganised" etc, it's an insult. If it's being used to refer to a roma person or any roma thing, it's perfectly okay
Thanks for mentioning this. The use of the word can depend on the context or the history associated with it like the german _zigeuner_ because of the Porajmos. Obviously _Gypsy Kings_ is fine and I love their music!
Yes. They're proud of their name Gitanos, Gypsy or Cigan in my language. And they're great people. It's awful how we segregate and stereotype them, instead of providing them education and housing. Many of them had the chance to educate and now they're academic citizens. Still, at least in Croatia, a lot of educated Gypsies don't want to identify as Gypsy because of the stigma. Imagine that shit, to be ashamed of what you are. And they're like they are because they didn't have the opportunity as a community to integrate. Like, what are the chances they would steal, be filthy and whatever if they were integrated in the society?
Seems like gitano has a lot of parallels to how "Jew" can be used. It's either just a descriptive term that's even used by the group it's describing, or it can be a slur based on context (e.g. calling someone a Jew as a way of calling them cheap)
That's good to know. Thanks!
In fact, spaniard gypsies consider "Roma" the actual slur because to them it means they are related in any way to Romanians, whom they hate.
@@Zosio Yes, precisely! You're welcome! :)
23:30 ironically, Ireland have a similar minority ethnic group to the Romani known as the Irish Travellers.
They spoke a mixed language of Irish and English known as Shelta, and were traditionally seen as expert tinkers (with communities of people flocking to their caravans, pots and pans in hands, when Irish Travellers came by) before peoples views of them soured. Their situation, and the problems they currently face, are almost identical to that of Romani peoples.
at least they have hot blonde women 😂😂😂
Excellent work. Have you looked into the Indian Residential Schools that were run by the catholic and Anglican churches in Canada? The same social problems and tropes faced by the Roma are a consequence of those “schools” here. I suggest listening to “Stolen” a Pulitzer Prize-winning podcast series about her family’s experiences at one of these horrific institutions. And for those who think they happened “a long time ago”, the last one closed in 1997.
In the Uk it's pretty bad, middling in treatment of Roma people overall compared to Europe, but still bad.
I worked in a Primary school with a sizeable Roma student population.
Overall, things were okay. Bar one year, where they felt threatened, so they grouped up to protect one of their younger relatives from what they thought was bullying (it was just friends falling out).
This scared the other non Roma children as all they saw at break time was a huge "gang" so they started to form their own "gang" which caused a vicious circle for weeks.... took ages for all the staff to slowly defuses the situation
I'm not sure if you ever witnessed this, but the Uk has a large Indian or South Asian population, since the Roma technically originate from India did you ever see how they treated British Indians or Pakistanis?
@@pxrkhali3363 In our area, it was primarily English, Roma & Polish.
Though did have a few refugee families & a handful of other ethnic/national groups. So I have never seen anything relating to them in person when i used to work in education.
In staff pannels with other schools, those of Indian or Pakistan Herritage had mixed treatment depending on just what council it was.
@@pxrkhali3363 Generally fine.
My mother is genuinely progressive in many ways, which is why i was absolutely shocked at her response when a few Roma people moved in near our house. 5 years later, i haven't heard of them doing any wrong, and my mother still insists they're some of the 'good ones' and it disturbs me. Thanks for making this video because while i felt she was wrong and told her off, i think my lack of education hindered me from really making a proper argument
sadly racism against roma has been way too normalised even in progessive circles
@@toli7176 It's actually inside and totally blindsided me. How otherwise progressive people will suddenly sound like SS officers as Adam said
@@SandyTheDesertFox You will get the same response when you bring up the treatment of Palestinians by Israel in european progressive circles, it's insane
In Spain the gov gave them housing and in the next day they left after burning furniture at the park while throwing a party. Everybody had the right to hate them and despise their children after seeing them burning their taxes money. This happened 15 years ago and people still have ressentiment and rightfully so.
@@gostavoadolfos2023 When football hooligans from my country demolished a beautiful old fountain in Italy, we never got blamed for it as a whole, but you really seem to want to hate Roma for an imagined inherent inferiority
I love that you are Hungarian but you still understand US racism and create videos with that context. Many non-Black RUclipsrs tend to ignore issues of race altogether but it’s nice that even though you’re videos aren’t about racism, you still make sure that your viewers understand the racial context in which this issues take place
maybe next ep will be about Blacks in the USA and vandalism.
I am from Czech Republic. As a kid I was extremely racist againts Romas/Gypsies, mostly because everyone around me was. All the members of my family, other kids, even teachers in school. I was told that they are responsible for all our problems, that they are parasites living on wellfare, stealing and making mess, that they are essentially uncivilized barbarians. I heard genocidal suggestions towards them many times and I had these beliefs as well. When I reached puberty and started listening to other sources and learning more about history I started to realize how horrible all of that was, and now I am very disappointed by our society for being like that.
Its all true
Ostrava, Czech Republic here. I actually live in a commie-block where couple of flats are rented to Roma families (usually the shitty ones in ground floor or in the 12th floor where the lift does not go). Like twice a year there is neighbours session to take care of the house's stuff (most flats are owned by indivual owners so that's why). It is usually sth like 2 hour session where like 20 minutes is solving and/or proposing actual problems. The rest of the session usually contains of every owner bitching about our Roma members (they are poor but relatively well adapted families, the problem is, they vigorously insist on keeping being Roma, which is apparently an insult for most of the flat owners).
So I deem the message of the video accurate.
Finally someone said it honestly it's a problem in the Czech Republic especially and it's strange that it's not talked about more and it should be
I've once watched a documentary on Roma villages in Czechia.
I had a girlfriend from the Czech Republic, she looked roma, I asked as I'm interested in genetics and family history (I'm a mix of various European heritage), and she got defencive and a bit offended.
At the same time I was socialising with 2 other Czech people, and discussing roma. One (now in the legal profession in the Czech Republic) spouted all the racist stereotypes and was very anti roma. The other sas polar opposite, and defending them.
After that discussion, I understood why people who look roma or roma who can pass off as "native" keep quiet.
As someone from the US, I literally have never even heard of such blatant racism of this kind before in Europe. It honestly blows my mind that ive never heard about this before given im reasonably well informed on stuff that happens in Europe for someone who doesn't live there.
Its honestly depressing to know this kinda shit is still rampant. I knew racism was pretty rampant in the US given I live here, but I always thought that Europe was at least a little better on that issue, but I guess that wasnt really the case, they were just racist towards a different group of people.
It is probably even worse in Slovakia...
@@eragon78 brown person born and bred in the uk… unfortunately that’s part of the stereotype perpetuated by Europeans, america the worst of it all, Europe the birthplace of civilisation.
As an Indian i didn't know the Roma people came from Rajasthan...that is incredible and makes me curious about their culture. It is really sad to hear about their treatment in Europe.
Not only Rajasthan. Northern India in general - i.e. one of frequent Roma family names here is “Bihári”
To be honest India have their own Roma people they just called them Dalits or Untouchables.
@@basedsoybean7072 are they the same community though? Because Dalit refers to the caste based system and Roma seems to be a specific community in Europe. I don't think they are still connected, but they are treated poorly in India
Whats even more sad is their behaviour in europe
I live in Europe, I don't really know the daily life of Romas or care to judge them, the only things I know is that when travelling groups are around in a place, they steal the local amenities to stay there. I would never even think about breaking open a fire hydrant to get running water camping or trashing the surrounding area or occupying uninhabited buildings, in one case a commercial building being renovated by 3 groups relaying themselves so the police can never permanently remove them.
I really don't think I'm wrong in saying the people I got this experience with are profiteering illegally, and when it happens to you, you can't help but question the morality of doing something like that.
What do you think ?
I’ve heard these exact arguments for the genocide of the American Indians, the oppression of American minority groups, and towards people that are homeless.
Real solutions don’t involve cracking down on an already heavily suppressed minority. Something like government-funded satellite WiFi would go a lot further, because that allows economic and educational access to a community that needs it but cannot afford it.
Saying “why should we pay for those things” is shortsighted, because you are investing in what is essentially economic integration. The Roma people can still be mobile, but crime won’t be economically viable for a community with far more to lose than to gain.
@@mvslice I would mostly agree, I assume most Roma communities have trouble integrating and are often forced to live in poverty with few chances to improve that condition.
But I have to go by what I experienced, and the Roma I've come to know don't really fall into that category, they have no trouble getting property, and seem very well off but they also take from the public properties and cause damage to infrastructure. To be honest the behavior I've experienced is very illogical
@@Eresea Personal experiences are valid experiences, but you want to make sure your examining what conditions lead to those experiences. I’m the Untied States, everything comes down to poverty, and addressing those issues benefits everyone.
The Roma people cannot “integrate” into society in the same way that most other people can, because they are a nomadic culture. Here is an example of a solution one could propose: government programs to fund satellite internet for the Roma. Rather than asking, “why should I do that for them,” instead ask, “why would this help?” The answer is solitons like that allow for the Roma to have more economic opportunity, while integrating them culturally through mutual dependence. Online education would also be immensely helpful.
Asking them to choose between economic opportunity, or their cultural identity, is not a choice. Rather, a culture, not just the individual, that has economic and educational opportunities will not see crime as an opportunity anymore. Being invested in where you live doesn’t mean owning property there.
The hurdle is always selling doing things for the good of people that the community already doesn’t like.
@@mvslice gypsies in romania get free education all the way up and including college, with vacant spots at any choice they want. Yet they dont want to change, the whole gypsy issue is not about the state, but their own culture and desire to not integrate in any country. In their eyes its them vs the world and you giving them free internet or education apparently doesnt change that
@@mvslice The problem with your idea is lack of experience. Roma communities get a lot of money through social benefits, whole housing blocks with full amenities for free, yet they mostly tend to use those money for booze, smokes and drugs and to destroy their housing only to get new one. So internet doesn't seem like something that would help or could get any support.
Beautiful video. As a Hungarian, having discussion about this topic with my fellow Hungarians is very difficult. Sometimes I'm straight up discusted what some of my friends can say about Roma people, while being left leaning or liberal.
You need to find better friends or explain what is happening. All my are on the same page as to the need for housing and integration into society of Roma people
@@fjuvo I'm more on the side of not leaving these people behind (be it this or other situation). You can have good influence on people just by hanging out with them, but if you cut ties, there's no one to pull them out of the pipeline.
I think the comparison to men really is a good way to open eyes
congrats you just invented feudalism
congrats you just invented feudalism
I don’t know how this systemic oppression still is so quiet in this day and age. I’ve asked so many video essayists to make videos but they’ve always been silent or not knowledgeable enough. Thanks for this video!
Adam's a real one
systemic issues in general bring into question a lot of our assumptions about the world we live in and uncomfortable truths about how our politics and history have shaped it. that discomfort and unfamiliarity makes it a hard topic to discuss, provoking anger and dismissiveness because of the vested interest in not rocking the collective boat and not upsetting our individual conscience. im actually really proud of how much more widespread and easier these topics are to talk about on the internet today than 10, 15 years ago. who knows how the world will look like in another 20.
@@CPSPD Well said. Feeling a problem is a lot different to actually pointing out systemic anomalies that cause them. I couldn't do it and I don't expect a random youtuber to either.
@@CPSPD I think it's also an exposure issue. To put what I think to be true in a more crude and incomplete manner, systemic issues lead to poverty, and poverty is something usually deliberately hidden from public view (various reasons from all parties involved, too long a list to remain on topic). As a result, the issues that lead up to said poverty don't get attention because the impoverishment isn't noticed.
What often does make it into public perception is when it results into crime or nuisance though, whether directly suffered or as a news headline.
It is however rather jarring when reliable statistics expose these "invisible" issues and one's major blind spots they reside in.
I am from eastern Slovakia and we have so many ghettos there, almost next to every second village. Local authorities never do anything about it, because they like exploiting this poor situation. I mean, why to solve a painful problem in society if you can always put a blame on those people when you need it?
I remember one thing from my high school. I had a very kind, nice and very talented classmate there. She was the best student in the class - she had always the best grades from every subject (I mean literally, she was the best in the class!). She was sitting behind me so we spent a lot of time during the breaks discussing the homeworks, etc. One time I told her a joke. It was some bad joke about Roma people (we have a lot of them in Slovakia... ) Soon after that, my other friend who was part of that conversation told me that it was not very nice from me to tell such a joke in front of her. And then I realized why. I realized she was actually Roma herself! I haven't realized that for 2 years since I knew her. And why? Because she was so smart and intelligent. And I was a stupid kid who was raised in a rascist society which basically refused to accept the fact that Roma people can be smart, intelligent and highly educated. Since then I started to look more empathetic on this issue and I always try to think how difficult those people have it in their lives to just go past telementary school even though they are smart and clever...
I have a similar experience with stereotypes (Czech). I was warned about some kids in the neighborhood when I was maybe 6 or 7 and completely misread who my parents meant because the Roma kids were really nice (unlike the older boys in their torn-up trousers who were bullying us younger kids - so when I got the "talk", I thought they were Roma instead). I did get in trouble when I invited them to play at our house later, and that was the first and last time I was ever told not to be friends with someone. At least my parents were nice while they were there. I mean, I distinctly remember being so happy mom actually played with us for once - she was quite... uninvolved normally - only for her to tell me she did that to keep an eye on them so that they don't steal anything. I was extremely upset about it even at that age. I'd been to their house beforehand myself, their parents were awesome and I had a fantastic time. It was completely different from what my parents kept insisting they're like. I think that's when I started doubting my parent's judgment as a child.
I still don't entirely get what people pick up on when deciding if someone is Roma or not. I sometimes suspect that they only notice them when they're acting in stereotypically negative ways, maybe even when they're not actually Roma.
i hope you know the vast majority of roma girls are pulled out of primary eduction to get married. if your classmate was a 'standard' run-of-the-mill roma she wouldve been married by that point. read some other comments under this video and get educated about how the roma people treat their women. your classmate was lucky to even be in school at all.
and to clarify, im not discriminating on the basis of race. i live in the balkans, i see brown people every day. roma people are inherently dumber or less worthy because of their race. its because of their absolutely medival culture. they are fundamentally against any kind of equality for women. this type of thinking is incompatible with modern times. im glad your classmate did well in class, but many roma families abandon their daughters or sell them into sexual slavery and child marriages. 'being more accepting' isnt going to solve this issue.
I'll tell the tale of two small towns in Greece. One is the place I grew up, the other is a village close by. Mind you I'm 19 so all this is what I've lived through from 2004 to last year before I left for college. Both villages have Roma population. The Roma that lived in my village didn't live inside it but at makeshift tents in a camp close by. They were distinctively outside society, they looted garbage bins for metal, they drove cars that were ready to fall apart, they were begging on the streets and they were burning garbage. They also had zero consideration for others, being loud, very rude and playing loud music at inappropriate hours. My mum's a teacher at primary school. The Greek government was paying the Roma to send their kids to school, you know, for education, something that is mandatory for everyone else in Greece. So the Roma sent their kids to school until they got the money and then pulled them out. Now, at the other village, the Roma live inside the village like other people, they go to school like other people, they have by all means been integrated into society. Now guess which of these two groups of Roma is respected and doesn't face trouble apart from the actually racist people. And guess which of these groups isn't respected at all and is viewed with disdain by the whole of society. The point is Roma that live as normal members of society, are viewed as simply that. Will integration be tough? Yes I'd say, for the first and maybe second generations, but the third generation will be just fine. The thing with the Roma is that they are hated because they're s group of people that live outside society and with complete disregard to laws.
Well you can guess three times what lead to this development as you observed it in the rundown camp.
And in addition to that, people of these two places might know the difference between these two Roma societies having observed them firsthand. But you can rest assured that won't stop others from treating those well-estsblished Roma like the ones from the camps outside your village.
On a positive note, it's nice to hear that those Roma from the town you mentioned get to live a at least mostly accepted life.
@@janelantestaverde2018 I cannot really speak for other countries, but in Greece the main reason people look down upon the Roma is because they live outside the bounds of society, they have a complete disregard for law, they choose not to work, they choose not to get educated etc. And that's not countries work, you can't have a group of people living with a complete disregard of societal laws and rules. If the Roma actually lived within society, only the racists would be against them. For as long as they live outside society, everyone will be against them.
@@nickklavdianos5136 And many of them will most likely keep disregarding the law, choose not to work nor to get educated as long as they are looked down upon and not welcome within society.
Society needs to change first before they can. It doesn't work the other way round. People won't climb the hill of getting educated if nobody gives jobs or proper education to them.
I know there have been attempts to do this, and they failed but denying them any further acknowledgement will just cause more of them in future generations to fall into the same cycle. If society could open itself up just enough so that the few that are willing to integrate can do that, this would already affect future generations.
Something that actually happens is this: A Romani wants to escape the ghetto and find a job at a small store/business. Then his "friends" find out about it and come vandalise the place and get him fired. Then no one wants to hire Roma any more, for some reason...
@@nickklavdianos5136 Their own culture is affected by the racism and their families not trusting the insitutions that mass genocided them in the Holocaust targeting them for the Final Solution, the institutions that sterilized their women, the institutions that enslaved them for 500 years in Chattel Slavery.
Roma were enslaved in Chattel Slavery in Romania for 500 years, longer than African-Americans, it is the longest continous Chattel slavery to be documented.They were Tortured, r*ped, m*rdered, sold, bought, donated, given as inheritance, auctioned, owned from their birth to their death by The Orthodox Church, State&Boyars. Do y’all even comprehend the gravity of Chattel Slavery and the depths of racism?They’ve been lynched, had their houses burned down by Romanians.
There’s a comment saying that Roma kids should be taken away from their families and that’s just sinister and reminding me of how Native Canadian children were taken away from their parents and placed into Catholic residential schools where they tried to convert them by forced assimilation and massacred then burried them under the schools. And now they call THEM “savages”, “lazy”, “alcoholic” and “dirty”. Any racialized group that has had a similar history as Roma is dealing with the same consequences, criminalization, poverty, segregation& systemic opression.
“African American men are stereotyped as being dangerous criminals.[5] African Americans are frequently stereotyped as being hypersexual, athletic, uncivilized, uneducated and violent. Young urban African American men are frequently labelled “gangstas” or “players”.[6][7]
Stereotypes of black women include depictions which portray them as welfare queens or depictions which portray them as angry black women who are loud, aggressive, demanding, and rude.[8]
African Americans are stereotyped as being lazy, being criminals, being good in sports, having babies out of wedlock, living on welfare and having great rhythm.[9] “(Wikipedia).
Tell me how this isn’t the same as this:
“ Belonging to the lowest social classes, the Romani are caught in a vicious circle of poverty reinforced by segregation.[2] Prejudice against Romani people is common among the Romanians, who stereotype the Romani as being thieves, dirty and lazy.[2] (Wikipedia).
Do you realize that Roma people are all around you and just bcs you only notice them when they are beggars doesn’t mean that in a coffee shop next street isn’t a literal Roma waitress? Or cook? Or OWNER? Do y’all realize these people are HUMAN?Y’all only observe Roma that confirm your stereotypes bcs of Confirmation Bias and being indoctrinated into racism.
Romania and other European parts were built on the backs&blood of Roma same as America was built on the backs&blood of Black&Native people.Y’all Europeans are not victims.Y’all created race then forced your systems and culture on POC for centuries, using them as objects for forced and free labour in slavery to perpetuate capitalism, stealing their humanity, traditions,religion,language and then segregating them at the margins.Europeans are the biggest thieves. European colonialism destroyed CONTINENTS.YOUR ways are savage&violent.
Communist authorities would stick Roma people in former german neighbourhoods, thus automatically forming ghettos by default. You are putting traditionally nomadic people into hard to maintain buildings, and then do a pikachu face once those burgeoise neighbourhoods crumble into dust.
I live in the Netherlands and all I was ever taught about Roma is that they were also targeted by the nazis. The more topics like this I see, the more my political conviction shifts from equality to equity.
The oversimplification of the Roma problem is basically "Survivorship bias". You notice only those who are poor and anti-social. Those who are middleclass and atleast high school educated are not noticed. But there is still racism when it comes to housing and education to even those "lucky ones". Most of the "lucky ones" abandon their Roma identity and assimilate (you can call me out on this one, cuz I have no source for that, only my perseption).
No , it's true . Romani people who assimilate lose ther identity and are no longer recognised as romani .
@@coryparni3620 good for them
i had a friend with romani heritage and spoke of places in Europe where people like him would be treated worse than me(i am black and from subsaharan africa).
i paid no mind to it and never put in the effort to read up on any of this.
its absolutely shocking how its perfectly fine and even encouraged to treat people so poorly.
It's not a race problem, but a cultural one.
@@ffff7164 im sorry, i didn't mean to make it sound that way. im just stating my shock at how terribly the Romani are treated.
@@ffff7164this is literally the most pathetic and repeated excuse for discrimination I have heard repeated verbatim over and over again about (insert minority). Go to hell
“Unless your goal is to cause suffering to [groups] you don’t like”
Half of America: “Yes, that one please.”
And majority of Hungary and Czech Republic, apparently.
It´s basicallyl the whole world. Religion, countries to their neighbors, even neighboring villages... Also whites are a minority in this world.
The majority of America*
Pretty much just all of America really. Most people in general.
Roma are the minority in Europe most affected by statelessness. Children will not be registered when born, or a child born to stateless parents will not be granted citizenship of the country they are born in. Also, as national borders changed in central/Eastern Europe, Roma were intentionally discriminated against and refused citizenship. Thank you so much for talking about such an important and underreported issue!
As a Ukrainian, statelessness scares us. It's something we went through for centuries until 1918 and then it was genocides, and no independence until 1991. But being a member of UN helps. Kurds, Roma, people who lost their country because of a dictator like Assad, and cannot get back or get citizenship in other countries? They actually have it worse. Latest Turkey election was between candidates trying to out-xenophobic each other towards Syrians FFS.
@@KasumiRINA Why do you think Assad caused the Syrian civil war? That's a really weird accusation.
BTW, Turkish here, and I unfortunately have to say this guy's point about Turkey is, while greatly exaggerated, unfortunately true. While none of the politicians openly act racist, the Syrian refugees are greatly looked down upon. The only political movements who tolerate them are the islamists who want to use their overly conservative majority to turn the country into a theocracy and socialists who generally oppose racism.
@@ashleigh3021 From what you're saying here, I assume if the Roma created a some sort of terrorist organization to take away land from a European country (your country if you live in Europe) and create their own state, you wouldn't oppose it?
@@ashleigh3021 All the answers to those are in the video genius. It's pretty well explained, too. When you discriminate against a group, you make them more likely to act out, causing more discrimination.
Bruh my country tried times and times again to give them citizenship, THEY REFUSE. they don't WANT to integrate. they want to live how THEY want to live.
i am so glad you made this video, many people need to hear this.
Thank you for framing some of the complex issues AND also presenting solutions. Your insightful inclusion of their voices and communities stress the importance that they are human beings worthy of love, respect, community and inclusion like all of us. You also highlight many important parallels to other oppressed people throughout the world and how some of the systemic and individual solutions can be applied.
A request for future topics: How the EU, EEC, and ECJ have been and can be leveraged towards these humanist goals.
Again, thank you for your work!
I'm from Poland. Where I grew up people would tell you to check if the door was closed not because a thief could come, but because a Gypsy would come and steal from you. A man (not even a Roma, I think, just not white) came with another man (white) to a place where my father worked, just so the white man could confirm that the man is not a Gypsy and he is there to actually do business. I could go on and on, it's so disgusting...
@@gostavoadolfos2023 Say you didn't watch the video without saying it
@@gostavoadolfos2023 least racist European.
@@gostavoadolfos2023It’s a problem because generalizing entire races is wrong. This is literally the same mindset white Americans had towards African Americans for decades.
I'll probably get a lot of stick here, but I think the problem is double-edged:
- I lived my whole life in Ukraine, in a city neighborhood which 1/4 of population of Roma people, my classmates were Roma, and my neighbors are Roma
- They usually drop school around 5th/6th grade, not because of they are unable to study, but because they "don't need to", although kids want to study, the parents are the deciding factor here.
- There is a huge wealth inequality amongst the Roma community, you can see some minor part having 4 story mansions with marble floors and driving s-class Mercs, and the majority are below poverty line. It can be the same neighborhood
- The main issue is that the poor Roma who make money through the criminal activities, or semi-legal stuff have to give up the majority of their income to more wealthy ones
- There is a "baron" who's like a leader of the community and usually the richest guy, he get the cut from what the poor Roma earn, offering them "protection" from the police etc.
- Therefore the poor Roma can't leave this cycle, they always have to give up their earnings, and if they don't they'll be simply thrown away from the community to the world where they are not "protected"
so that just proves that forcing people into poverty makes them nihilistic and it discourages them from trying to escape. You just need to give an actual path to success, and then they will try their best to follow it
@@alpacaofthemountain8760 I second this
As far as i know the same applies to Moldova and in some extent Romania. I saw such castles around Soroca region
This aint unique tho. Many of these are symptoms that can be found within other marginalized ethnic groups around the world. And these issues only get better when well planned social funding and protections against discrimination are implemented.
That’s called a mob. It happens in a lot of places, and to a lot of people of many different ethnicities. It’s not exclusive to Roma. And it shows systemic failures in the system.
I literally got attacked in work because i looked at someone wrong.
I got a billion dollars from Obama because I made an aircraft carrier turn invisible
@@carn941 thanks obama
In Serbia, where I live, they are called Tsigani (Цигани) and they refer to themselves as Tsigani. They are completely harmless and unthreatening. They live in squalor and typically have their first child at the onset of puberty. Their occupations are begging and sifting rubbish for recyclable material, especially plastics and aluminium. People seem to think that they are responsible for very petty non-violent crimes but I've seen no instance of this in 9 years. Although there are exceptions, a lot less than 1%, integration is non-existent. The Serbian children, who I teach, are quite prepared to make friends with them, but it never extends into adulthood.
In short, they've subsisted on the fringes of society for centuries and no one knows how to change that or even if they should.
Very sad.
@@nikobellic570 Yes it is, at least from our point of view. On the other hand they choose to live this way. The issue for me is the children and of course the big question. Why?
@@benchapple1583 not a choice. Thats just what their families teach them. The cycle must be broken if they are to integrate
@@redbepis4600 How? If you know then you will be the first in history to succeed- and many have tried.
@@benchapple1583 All my ideas are less than moral and likely insufficient. Community role models is the only thing I can think of that sounds usable.
As a Romani person, thank you for this video! We have been trying to say this for a long time but it’s like talking to a wall (literally). I’m glad more people are waking up to the how Roma around the world are treated and how inhumane it is.
But you have said in your videos that you don't wanna integrate? "We don't need your policies" and similar things. I know what has caused that mentality, it's systemic disinfranchisement but that opinion is actually something which holds back the progress. I'd like to learn more about it from you :)
Tell us more about what is going to happen to you or your family if you refuse to serve to your baron.
@@astronics Yeah policies that hurt Roma, you anti-Roma racists never listen do you?
Your shorts are a great introduction to parts of Romani culture and issues, keep up the good work :)
@@astronicsYeah. I understand that the biggest contribution to the continued problem comes from Europeans but actively saying no to the few things that they are given to improve their situation aint helping either
As a Czech ( non- roma) I am well aware of the problem and the idea of vicious cycle was the one I came to in my own time. Thank you for covering this problem. It is concerning how no-one talks about it.
The czech version of "At least Hitler also built the Autobahn" is "At least Hitler killed the gypsys."
@@cyan_oxy6734 Czech Version of anything naziism is more like "Kill everyone who does not speak our bullshit crappy and ugly language".
Adam has never experienced a true Cigan moment...
Hard facts.
Guarantee it
Pata-Rât is an interesting place to look into. It's a landfill in a Romania that was used to move Roma communities and families.
If you try to find it on Wikipedia you'll notice that the page is only in 3 languages (Romanian, Italian, and Hungarian). The Romanian and Italian pages are only two sentences long and do not described what happened to the Roma people there, it's only the Hungarian page that has anything close to appropriate coverage and describes the history of the place.
I'm certain that the coverage would be very different if this had happened to any other group, but because they're Roma there's only a few small news articles.