Im a DnD noob, that actually got into this world because of the new Baldur's Gate game. Thank you so much for this work. I'm more or less addicted to the lore of this universe now.
You may like the Baldur's Gate lore video that is coming out in the next 48 hours then :) Thanks for watching and welcome to our little lore community!
I grew up reading about this lore, it never gets old (even though you do). The guys responsible for this are great writers and huge history buffs. I can remember buying Dragon Magazine every month as a kid. And not realizing how good it actually was. I was able to appreciate the writing and what it took to come up with this stuff, when I went to college. You should check out guys like Ed Greenwood too.
Welcome to the party. The adventure hasn’t stopped since 1974, though many of our PC’s have left this plane. May the dice be ever in your favor, my friend 🫡
I started with the drizzt, and elminster book series, also the dark alliance games thinking they were self contained stories. Eventually I found out they were connected, all in one universe, and how there are decades of stories. Its a big rabbit hole, and most of the community is awesome. I love hearing and seeing people's first tiptoes into this universe. Have fun, welcome to the wonderfully strange.
Interviews with developers would be a good addition to your channel. These would be good editions for you because of the style you deliver information. Your curiosity and attention to detail in connecting lore would lead to some great questions and interactions.
Thanks for doing these. This is embarrassing to admit but I've been detoxing the last few days. Been really helpful to have something interesting to listen too. Made it just barrable. Just thought you should know, as silly as it sounds, this really made a difference in someone's life.
I always preferred the Pact Primeval origin story of Asmodeus. It shares similarities to Zariel's story, but the punchline of Pact Primeval is much better and it's 100% Asmodeus.
The fall of the evil world serpent is a powerful retelling of Milton's Satan. The last sound heard in hell, after Satan had succeeded in tempting Eve, is a sustained, hopeless sibilant "essssssss" as all the fallen angels, now warped, assume serpentine bodies. I have avoided the lore of the nine helks because I really tend to like draconic lore, but this is EXCELLENT.
Dude this manga is dope. I kinda just ended up combining the Pact Primeval and the Serpents of Law in my head. The Serpents were first, they formed the Wheel, and then, as the first war was between Law and Chaos, not Good and Evil, the blood war would have pulled the early Celestia and Baator beings together for a common purpose, resulting in the story of the Pact Primeval. Asmodeus has a genuine hatred for the chaos demons so he would have no problem siding with the good powers just to have an excuse to kill them, and thus would become part of the 'angels' to do so. Until the inevitable pact, of course. Which is ultimately just a way for Ahriman to gather energy and heal. He saw a way out, and took it. I know there are still some contradictory details, but that is also kind of fitting, when dealing with godly evil powers, they will often try to intentionally cause seemingly contradictory events yet all are true. So, why not?
I don't know if you'll see this but i just wanted to say thank you for this beautiful wealth of information I'm planning a Nine Hells campaign right now and this is the info I needed!! I would love real life lore and anything else you would like to dig up!
I'm brand new to the D&D world thanks to the new Baldurs Gate 3 game. I want to learn all about the forgotten realms. All the lore, history, characters, places etc. This world fascinates me. Great job on the videos. I'm looking forward to seeing all the cool lore you put out. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge with the community.
I would be interested in a real-world lore series about the massive disconnect between third and fourth editions even though I’ve never played the fourth and own no products from that version. Another content creator here on RUclips covers a fair bit of such lore regarding the Basic rules set, first and second editions, the really old school versions of the D&D while reviewing old game products. I enjoy his sharing of “behind the scenes” lore as to why certain choices were made and how these shaped the game we all know and love! This said, I’m really enjoying your presentation of in-game lore and excellent home-brew ideas, particularly your style of presentation. As such I would love to hear some later editions stuff from behind the curtain, so to speak and as you cover more of these than that other content creator I mentioned I think you’d make an excellent choice of researcher and narrator for such content. You did ask so this is my two zhents worth.
i still have the paper backs of the first books ( if you could call them that) That's how old I am. and OH I was a 3rd year college student at that time.
A sigh escapes the lips of the lone figure. The leathers shift with each step. The electric blue eyes gaze upon the shifting lights of worlds. Growing, splitting, and dying... The lone spirit's steps slowly approach one of five branching Waygates. The weave merge and seprate from the form. Iconic runes and clawed symbols of arcane... Of who built them, none can name. At last, the soul who was drawn... Arrived to the gate, still in the state of dying. A silence, and an inward prayer. The Waygate glow in an insidious red. Seen is the realm that belongs to the dead. Fire from the right, Lightning from the left. The caster awaits... To see what the mirror image can show with their baits.
I think there are a lot of things in those two alternate origin stories that aren't really mutually exclusive with the Pact Primeval. Like, I can imagine that Aramon is really down in a tenth circle, but Asmodeus isn't an avatar, he just saw Baator as open real estate that served his purpose. I also prefer the He Who Was version of how he got the Ruby Rod.
For 4e It wasn't making D&D a video game as much as it was making it a panel by panel easy mode Graphic Novel that allowed for modular braindead DMing and overly balanced flavorless juggling action driven combat. If you had minis and quality terrain 4e D&D could feel closer to 40k than D&D. Imho I think it was a harder push of what they tried to accomplish woth Ebberon, making a more fluid pulp action feeling gameplay rather than the intimidating stack of books from the 80s and 90s.
I personally prefer the Giant serpent origin and have to Nick pick the angel origin for the simple fact that a lawful good angel committed high treason and murder to assume power which is unlawfulness at its core
@@RichesandLiches True until they decide to retcon it again and it can be argued that all three Origins are true just not in the way that everyone thinks. The best Liars use the truth to sell their lie and he is the Lord of Lies after all
Based off of what I’ve heard about the public response to earlier editions of D&D, a part of me wonders if the retcon of the origins of Asmodeus to reflect something more familiar to modern Christianity was partially a response to the whole Satanic Panic. When you take something like world serpents, a theme common in many creation myths across the globe for what would be considered pagan beliefs, it feels very old and “other” in comparison to what a modern western society was familiar with. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the changes were a result of writers trying to incorporate some lore that would appeal more to a Christian mindset
My favorite char Graz'zt is a superior lord-master of lies,deception ,we don't even know how his name is truly pronounced,Graezt,GraeZet,Grazit,Grec...??
I hope to get started on the full demon/abyssal series sooner rather than later, but will almost certainly be sometime after the new year. Thanks for the comments and watching!
So.. Jazzerian and Aramon (Hopefully the subtitles got it right.. if not pls correct).. so those two were the very first ones even before lord ao? and what's with 'the luminous being'? is it jazzerian?? EDIT: Nvm it's Jazirian and Ahriman, finally found the place in the wiki xD
As a system, I think 4E was pretty good, albeit with little resemblance to previous editions. OTOH the massive change in lore was the reason many of us largely ignored that edition. It just did too much to destroy the iconography of what we loved about D&D.
That is well said. I have often stated that 4e would have been a pretty good, maybe great system if were not D&D! It just tried to retcon at every turn, which was unfortunate... at least in my humble opinion. Great comment, thank you!
Soo... rules of three huh... Jaziria and Ahriman... Selune and Shar... Bahamut and Tiamat... I see where it's going... or not, 'Cause its already on counter three ;)
4e had some good lore and creatures which i kinda would've liked to be added or continued to the general dnd lore like orium dragons or similar 4e specific creatures including convertions to older editions like 3e etc Personally i strongly dislike editions given its typically just a excuse to try and get people yo start from scratch wnd buy a whole series of books and such and not actually trying to improve things
I'm not interested in 4e at all, it's definitely off topic. I much preferred the more first person narrative the first video had, of the wizard being the teller of the lore.
It was more Bardic and had the spirit of DnD for sure. I hated everything after 2E but Rich is doing a good job with revealing the possible scenarios a person might make to build a home world for a game. Rumors create stories for life. And develop mystery.....
This is interesting feedback. If I understand correctly, you'd prefer the lore to stay in story form and not offer any editorial as I did in the 4e chapter. I get that... I almost took the whole chapter out initially thinking it might break the flow... so clearly I see your point. Thank you for the insight and I will endeavor to improve in volume 3 and beyond!
Äh you messed the facts up !! sorry, but #1 makes only sense, when you assume a cer tain creation mythos ( the one in which Asmodeus fights the one that was, in other ones this is without meaning ! #2 only related to the lower planes, no words of Modrons vs. Isgard, Asuras vs. Archons....
This volume was about the origin of the nine hells and Asmodeus and each version does not have its own specific origin story. There are three widely understood origin stories and they cover ALL versions and Ed Greenwood has specifically stated that the goal of these origin stories was to not provide all the specifics but create gaps and space for DMs to weave their own stories. To be as clear as I can for you: 1e/2e The original story was the Ahriman/Jazirian "Twin Serpents" which was "introduced and documented" in 2e but was considered canon for 1e/2e 3e/3.5e The Pact Primeval origin story is considered 3.5e canon 4e He Who Was introduced in 4e was the retconned "canon" origin story. 5e Did not introduce a new story but the prevailing canon is the Pact Primeval Is there a particular origin story that you think I missed? Thanks for the comments!
@@RichesandLiches From the video title, I had the idea it was about the lore of the Nine Hells. Now that I know it was about the origin of the Nine Hells, that makes more sense.
The pact primeval is the hokeyest and most cliche origin story of the three. Really? Read the fine print? Like a greater god would have missed small words at the bottom of a parchment? Insulting to peoples intelligence. Further, the whole concept of fine print is just so dissonant it’s ridiculous. Was contract law something wizards could major in? Perhaps it would fall under actuarial magic? Res ipsa loquitur as stupid.
Good research and compilation, but 7 minutes being redundant and repeating what you covered in a previous 20+ min video is too much. Please learn to be concise when giving context and how to flow story telling. It's a video not a d&d table with constant sidebars. There are 10 minutes of actual lore and then the fiendish facts and rumors (good idea).
Thank you for the feedback. That video is pretty old (relatively speaking) and I was still learning the ropes of content creation (still am learning every day thanks to all the great community feedback). I believe (hope) you will agree that the more recent volumes have improved in the very areas you mentioned, but please continue to let me know if you feel otherwise. Thanks again for your comments and the time you gave to the video. My goal is to not waste anyone's time and I am always trying to improve.
Well done and very informative thank you and game on.
I am so glad you enjoyed it... thank you for your time and feedback.
Im a DnD noob, that actually got into this world because of the new Baldur's Gate game. Thank you so much for this work. I'm more or less addicted to the lore of this universe now.
You may like the Baldur's Gate lore video that is coming out in the next 48 hours then :)
Thanks for watching and welcome to our little lore community!
I grew up reading about this lore, it never gets old (even though you do). The guys responsible for this are great writers and huge history buffs.
I can remember buying Dragon Magazine every month as a kid. And not realizing how good it actually was. I was able to appreciate the writing and what it took to come up with this stuff, when I went to college.
You should check out guys like Ed Greenwood too.
Welcome to the party. The adventure hasn’t stopped since 1974, though many of our PC’s have left this plane. May the dice be ever in your favor, my friend 🫡
I started with the drizzt, and elminster book series, also the dark alliance games thinking they were self contained stories. Eventually I found out they were connected, all in one universe, and how there are decades of stories. Its a big rabbit hole, and most of the community is awesome. I love hearing and seeing people's first tiptoes into this universe. Have fun, welcome to the wonderfully strange.
@@cernunnos_livesGreenwood is a legend
Real life lore, something critical to providing context and all-too-often left out... I crave it
So early to this one. Already liking this mega series!
Adding to the list of things I did not know in D&D lore. And yeah, some real world lore of D&D would be cool.
Lore starts at 7:08. Both vol 1 and 2
Real world lore would be interesting. I hope you can pull it off. Good luck!!
I'm digging it
Definitely interested in the real development story.
Real world lore, very Coolio. Great job 😎 🤘 🍻
Thank you for the kind words and your time.
I desire real world lore. Makes this all so much more fascinating. To know the mindset of what went into what we enjoy
I'd be very interested in some behind the scenes real world lore if that's ever possible!
You are absolutely on the right track (with trying to interviewing past writers). You should start with Ed Greenwood.
This is awesome. Keep rolling them out.
That's the plan!
Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
Born the same year as Dungeons & Dragons (May '74) I am quite interested in IRL D&D Stories.
Interviews with developers would be a good addition to your channel. These would be good editions for you because of the style you deliver information. Your curiosity and attention to detail in connecting lore would lead to some great questions and interactions.
Thanks for doing these.
This is embarrassing to admit but I've been detoxing the last few days. Been really helpful to have something interesting to listen too.
Made it just barrable.
Just thought you should know, as silly as it sounds, this really made a difference in someone's life.
Nothing embarassing about that my friend!
Thank you for the kind words and best of luck to you!!!
Keep your head up! Takes courage to say what you did.
I always preferred the Pact Primeval origin story of Asmodeus. It shares similarities to Zariel's story, but the punchline of Pact Primeval is much better and it's 100% Asmodeus.
The fall of the evil world serpent is a powerful retelling of Milton's Satan. The last sound heard in hell, after Satan had succeeded in tempting Eve, is a sustained, hopeless sibilant "essssssss" as all the fallen angels, now warped, assume serpentine bodies. I have avoided the lore of the nine helks because I really tend to like draconic lore, but this is EXCELLENT.
this channel is fantastic, seriously. on a lore binge rn lmao, hope you blow up man
cool!
You had me at TrapperKeeper
I love this! thank you for the watch, comment and chuckle!
2nd Addition Advanced D&D! It's was and STILL is the best!
The Walmart knockoff TrapperKeeper reference was throne in their to insure that Rich passed the Turing Test.
Dude this manga is dope.
I kinda just ended up combining the Pact Primeval and the Serpents of Law in my head. The Serpents were first, they formed the Wheel, and then, as the first war was between Law and Chaos, not Good and Evil, the blood war would have pulled the early Celestia and Baator beings together for a common purpose, resulting in the story of the Pact Primeval. Asmodeus has a genuine hatred for the chaos demons so he would have no problem siding with the good powers just to have an excuse to kill them, and thus would become part of the 'angels' to do so. Until the inevitable pact, of course. Which is ultimately just a way for Ahriman to gather energy and heal. He saw a way out, and took it.
I know there are still some contradictory details, but that is also kind of fitting, when dealing with godly evil powers, they will often try to intentionally cause seemingly contradictory events yet all are true. So, why not?
That is a perfect example of my manta... What is cannon at your table, is what your table decides.
Well done!
I don't know if you'll see this but i just wanted to say thank you for this beautiful wealth of information
I'm planning a Nine Hells campaign right now and this is the info I needed!!
I would love real life lore and anything else you would like to dig up!
@megg713 I see it and I thank you for just kind words... sincerely, thank you for supporting the channel with your views and comments! /bow
@@RichesandLiches I'll be watching many more of your videos as I go through this research I'm just getting started and looking forward it!
I'm brand new to the D&D world thanks to the new Baldurs Gate 3 game. I want to learn all about the forgotten realms. All the lore, history, characters, places etc. This world fascinates me. Great job on the videos. I'm looking forward to seeing all the cool lore you put out. Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge with the community.
I would be interested in a real-world lore series about the massive disconnect between third and fourth editions even though I’ve never played the fourth and own no products from that version. Another content creator here on RUclips covers a fair bit of such lore regarding the Basic rules set, first and second editions, the really old school versions of the D&D while reviewing old game products. I enjoy his sharing of “behind the scenes” lore as to why certain choices were made and how these shaped the game we all know and love!
This said, I’m really enjoying your presentation of in-game lore and excellent home-brew ideas, particularly your style of presentation. As such I would love to hear some later editions stuff from behind the curtain, so to speak and as you cover more of these than that other content creator I mentioned I think you’d make an excellent choice of researcher and narrator for such content.
You did ask so this is my two zhents worth.
Hell yea. The story behind the development of the editions would be super interesting
i still have the paper backs of the first books ( if you could call them that) That's how old I am. and OH I was a 3rd year college student at that time.
A sigh escapes the lips of the lone figure. The leathers shift with each step. The electric blue eyes gaze upon the shifting lights of worlds. Growing, splitting, and dying...
The lone spirit's steps slowly approach one of five branching Waygates.
The weave merge and seprate from the form.
Iconic runes and clawed symbols of arcane...
Of who built them, none can name.
At last, the soul who was drawn...
Arrived to the gate, still in the state of dying.
A silence, and an inward prayer.
The Waygate glow in an insidious red.
Seen is the realm that belongs to the dead.
Fire from the right, Lightning from the left.
The caster awaits...
To see what the mirror image can show with their baits.
Anyways, people are wanting IRL lore to add in the context.
LOVE THESE VIDEOS DUDE… 👊🏼. PLEASE KEEP GOING.
Devils just seem more interesting than demons, especially in 5e's streamlined (ahem) approach to aggregate lore, such as the soul trade.
My party is about to try entering the hells, and i cant wait!
I think there are a lot of things in those two alternate origin stories that aren't really mutually exclusive with the Pact Primeval. Like, I can imagine that Aramon is really down in a tenth circle, but Asmodeus isn't an avatar, he just saw Baator as open real estate that served his purpose. I also prefer the He Who Was version of how he got the Ruby Rod.
Omg.... ❤ love you 😍
For 4e It wasn't making D&D a video game as much as it was making it a panel by panel easy mode Graphic Novel that allowed for modular braindead DMing and overly balanced flavorless juggling action driven combat. If you had minis and quality terrain 4e D&D could feel closer to 40k than D&D.
Imho I think it was a harder push of what they tried to accomplish woth Ebberon, making a more fluid pulp action feeling gameplay rather than the intimidating stack of books from the 80s and 90s.
I personally prefer the Giant serpent origin and have to Nick pick the angel origin for the simple fact that a lawful good angel committed high treason and murder to assume power which is unlawfulness at its core
You make an arguable point, but the story is canonical :)
@@RichesandLiches True until they decide to retcon it again and it can be argued that all three Origins are true just not in the way that everyone thinks. The best Liars use the truth to sell their lie and he is the Lord of Lies after all
Real & Story lore please, though don't take on too much too fast my guy, grow strong.
Based off of what I’ve heard about the public response to earlier editions of D&D, a part of me wonders if the retcon of the origins of Asmodeus to reflect something more familiar to modern Christianity was partially a response to the whole Satanic Panic. When you take something like world serpents, a theme common in many creation myths across the globe for what would be considered pagan beliefs, it feels very old and “other” in comparison to what a modern western society was familiar with. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the changes were a result of writers trying to incorporate some lore that would appeal more to a Christian mindset
Very interested to know where you sourced the Asmodeus art? Awesome!
Thank you for watching and commenting!
I have a commerical license to create and own my own LLM based art.
@@RichesandLiches And a paid monthly subscription means we get to have access to it? Definitly worth every penny :) Keep up the amazing work, Mr!
My favorite char Graz'zt is a superior lord-master of lies,deception ,we don't even know how his name is truly pronounced,Graezt,GraeZet,Grazit,Grec...??
I hope to get started on the full demon/abyssal series sooner rather than later, but will almost certainly be sometime after the new year.
Thanks for the comments and watching!
Level 20? Naw man, this calls for some Epic level characters and classes!
So.. Jazzerian and Aramon (Hopefully the subtitles got it right.. if not pls correct).. so those two were the very first ones even before lord ao? and what's with 'the luminous being'? is it jazzerian??
EDIT: Nvm it's Jazirian and Ahriman, finally found the place in the wiki xD
The intrigue continues…
~_~
As a system, I think 4E was pretty good, albeit with little resemblance to previous editions. OTOH the massive change in lore was the reason many of us largely ignored that edition. It just did too much to destroy the iconography of what we loved about D&D.
That is well said. I have often stated that 4e would have been a pretty good, maybe great system if were not D&D! It just tried to retcon at every turn, which was unfortunate... at least in my humble opinion.
Great comment, thank you!
Soo... rules of three huh... Jaziria and Ahriman... Selune and Shar... Bahamut and Tiamat... I see where it's going... or not, 'Cause its already on counter three ;)
4e had some good lore and creatures which i kinda would've liked to be added or continued to the general dnd lore like orium dragons or similar 4e specific creatures including convertions to older editions like 3e etc
Personally i strongly dislike editions given its typically just a excuse to try and get people yo start from scratch wnd buy a whole series of books and such and not actually trying to improve things
Is Greiley Tomekeeper a creation of your own or part of Forgotten Realms cannon?
Is there a list of sources?
Would like to look at those too 🤓
4e. I will never like 4e retcon information. 2e Great. 3.5e was ok. 5e has been the best for me so far.
I'm not interested in 4e at all, it's definitely off topic. I much preferred the more first person narrative the first video had, of the wizard being the teller of the lore.
It was more Bardic and had the spirit of DnD for sure.
I hated everything after 2E but Rich is doing a good job with revealing the possible scenarios a person might make to build a home world for a game. Rumors create stories for life. And develop mystery.....
This is interesting feedback. If I understand correctly, you'd prefer the lore to stay in story form and not offer any editorial as I did in the 4e chapter.
I get that... I almost took the whole chapter out initially thinking it might break the flow... so clearly I see your point.
Thank you for the insight and I will endeavor to improve in volume 3 and beyond!
He Who Was = Gygax
Äh you messed the facts up !! sorry, but #1 makes only sense, when you assume a cer tain creation mythos ( the one in which Asmodeus fights the one that was, in other ones this is without meaning ! #2 only related to the lower planes, no words of Modrons vs. Isgard, Asuras vs. Archons....
I do not understand why you began with some 2E lore and skipped to 4E. Why not do it all in order, 1E, 2E, 3E, and so on?
This volume was about the origin of the nine hells and Asmodeus and each version does not have its own specific origin story.
There are three widely understood origin stories and they cover ALL versions and Ed Greenwood has specifically stated that the goal of these origin stories was to not provide all the specifics but create gaps and space for DMs to weave their own stories.
To be as clear as I can for you:
1e/2e
The original story was the Ahriman/Jazirian "Twin Serpents" which was "introduced and documented" in 2e but was considered canon for 1e/2e
3e/3.5e
The Pact Primeval origin story is considered 3.5e canon
4e
He Who Was introduced in 4e was the retconned "canon" origin story.
5e
Did not introduce a new story but the prevailing canon is the Pact Primeval
Is there a particular origin story that you think I missed?
Thanks for the comments!
@@RichesandLiches From the video title, I had the idea it was about the lore of the Nine Hells. Now that I know it was about the origin of the Nine Hells, that makes more sense.
as mode E-us. *LOL*
As-Mo-Day-Us :)
Neither is wrong...
The pact primeval is the hokeyest and most cliche origin story of the three. Really? Read the fine print? Like a greater god would have missed small words at the bottom of a parchment? Insulting to peoples intelligence. Further, the whole concept of fine print is just so dissonant it’s ridiculous. Was contract law something wizards could major in? Perhaps it would fall under actuarial magic? Res ipsa loquitur as stupid.
Good research and compilation, but 7 minutes being redundant and repeating what you covered in a previous 20+ min video is too much. Please learn to be concise when giving context and how to flow story telling. It's a video not a d&d table with constant sidebars.
There are 10 minutes of actual lore and then the fiendish facts and rumors (good idea).
Thank you for the feedback.
That video is pretty old (relatively speaking) and I was still learning the ropes of content creation (still am learning every day thanks to all the great community feedback).
I believe (hope) you will agree that the more recent volumes have improved in the very areas you mentioned, but please continue to let me know if you feel otherwise.
Thanks again for your comments and the time you gave to the video. My goal is to not waste anyone's time and I am always trying to improve.
I was interested in this channel but the repetition and bloat and even more talking at the us like we're at a weekly meet up got too old too fast