Introduction to Fretless Banjo
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- In Banjo Quest 27 we start our fretless clawhammer banjo journey. Here I talk about 3 things that I love about fretless banjo, and give you strategies to help you avoid the mistakes I made early on.
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The banjo I'm playing is my Enoch model 400. 
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I have a fretless open back banjo for almost two years.When i took it out of the case,i really though something was wrong with it, high notes sounded dead.I got discouraged,and didn't pick it up until the other day.I had fun,and liked that it was not so loud in my apartment.I decided to study the instrument,and found your lesson.Thank you very much for sharing you knowledge of the instrument.
Awesome, James! So glad you found me. Best of luck in your fretless journeys!
In the middle of converting an old Kay to fretless, very excited! Thanks for the help
I started on a fretless and
1. There is nothing else like it.
2. It made me a better banjo player who was more willing to experiment with sounds right off the bat.
How do you learn on the fretless? I've always been a guitar player and i wanted to construct a mountain banjo and learn the banjo from that.
@@noname-vp6vf honestly, especially with homemade banjos, each one is different. I think the pointers in this video are good but just know that the exact intonation will shift depending on the banjo you're playing. I'd first try out someone else's fretless and that will give you a better idea how to build your own. I played guitar before banjo and I didn't find the transition that hard.
@@abbanjo13 i have a 5 string with a nut and bridge too tall for my liking,but they'd be good for this idea i had - make a fingerboard sleeve that goes over my frets instead of pulling the frets from my only banjo or making/buying a new one.
That sound like something that should work to you? Would you be interested?
@Marion Finuf would you cut spaces for the frets to rest on the back?
Yeah could be a cool experiment. I dunno if it'd work though.
Cool. I’ve only been playing banjo a little over six months, but I play my fretless homebuilt cigar box banjo much more than my production fretted banjo. It has a very imperfect sound, but I just find it more fun to play. My next build is a fretless tackhead banjo.
Check out Noah Cline’s video on making a gourd banjo, and look at the comments because he answered a lot of my questions. If you can make a cigar box guitar, you can make one of these!
That’s a beautiful banjo Tom, great video sir!
It was nice to see your enthusiasm. Like a kid with a new toy😊
One point I'm not clear about is that suggested hand and thumb position. I play a fretted banjo, and my teacher picked up on my hand position (thumb curled round neck), which was constantly causing the palm of my hand to mute the 1st string. She suggested putting my thumb behind the neck, and parallel to it (classical guitarist method) and I found that it stopped the muting AND shifted my old and stiff fingers to a position where they had much more freedom of movement, and were better placed for doing effective hammer ons. My teacher says I've now gone a bit further, and have my fretting hand arched like jazz players - but this has helped me even further to get those fretting fingers as nimble as possible.
One of the biggest benefits in that shift of hand position is that instead of my thick stubby fingers coming down on the neck at a slanting angle is that they come down on it at right angles to the neck - which makes it easier to avoid muting adjacent strings.
It looks to me as though if I used the hand position shown above, I'd be right back in the situation I was in when I started playing - though I can well believe that my pretty misshapen fingers make my hands far from typical! (they've had a tough life).
But it's long since struck me that though guitarists who play fretless bass are treated as almost superhuman - yet everyone who plays violin, viola, cello and double bass had no choice but to learn to play without frets from Day One . . .
Thank you for the YES, YES, YES for beginners learning fretless banjo! I bought a fretless a week ago because a friend who makes gorgeous banjos (Tui Banjos in NZ) had one for sale and she's BEAUTIFUL! A week into trying to get my head around position, clawhammer and fretting notes that don't sound out of tune, I was ready to give up. Thank you for the re-motivation!
So happy to hear this!!!
Very good ... a lot of great information that I never began to hear before.
this is really good - you have a great manner and style of tuition - thanks
Thank you so much, Nick!
Wow! Great playing, great sound, beautiful instrument. and great teaching. I suddenly feel moved to tune-up my old, basic fretless, and maybe even moreso moved to acquire a very good fretless. I thought that was a model of excellent teaching and fortunately it spoke to my level of knowledge and experience - truly, in my zone (ZPL). Thanks.
Thanks, Tom. This is exactly what I've been looking for.
Thanks, Sean!
good video and I like your calm delivery and tone
Thanks!
Great video
The traditional banjo lacked the fifth string as well (well there wasn't truly a specific setup but it was very common) i just built a 4 string fretless out of a paint thinner can so I can play something like this, sounds pretty awesome on the amp. Thanks for making a video about this.
Brilliant Explanation. Respect. Many Thanks. STP.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks!
I just recently finished making a gourd fretless banjo and now I have to learn to play it! I’ve played finger style guitar for years so I’m going to have to overcome some habits. I was inspired by watching Rhiannon Giddens and Noah Cline. I love the sound of traditional instruments.
Me too! Good luck on your fretless banjo journey!!
Fretless was a easy switch for me since I already played old time fiddle for around thirty years. I knew the tunes in my head and was used to no frets.
Listen to the notes matched to the tune in your head as you play.
Also as a fiddle player I also watched the banjo players sitting across from me all the time while we played tunes.
Cp
I'm a new player and all I have is a fretless tackhead to learn. First thing I did was ditch the crappy friction tuners, and threw on some guitar tuners ( i know the snobs all die in this moment)-- with figuring out the instrument. Now, I'm just working on right hand technique. I will tackle my left hand technique heavily in the next 2 weeks. It is a bit of a monster even playing a 1 string scale, but I KNOW it will help me develop my ear which is one of my weakest elements in all music making. I'm game for the challenge.
I would like one for my next banjo
Very nice Tom ... thanks.
I've played clawhammer in the past ...
but never jumped UP to fretless.
I'm going to now.
even if i have to rip the frets out of
one of the old gourds i no longer play.
thanks again.
I just finished building a minstrel banjo kit from Carver Banjos and am loving it. Hopefully your videos will help me make it sound good. Ha ha!
Awesome! Good luck with your fretless journey. I'm doing a fretless survival school this Fall. Stay tuned.
Tom Collins ...ooooh! I definitely will! I’m focusing on getting the basics of the clawhammer technique currently...I think I’m close! Lol
Great video! I love it! Right away I think about the violin, fretless bass and the human voice. there aren't any frets on your vocal chords. :)
Well said, Rick!! Thanks for the comment, Tom
Reason 4: you can be more in tune than on a fretted banjo! Playing fretless made me fall back in love with g tuning because that b string can be a little flat and your "3rd fret" d can exactly match the open first string! Loved this one, keep up the good work!
I agree, Baron! I really struggled to reduce it to 3 reasons...Thanks for watching!
Longtime guitar and mandolin player, and I've been bored with both for years. I'm sorely tempted to get myself a fretless banjo for my upcoming 61st birthday.
Nice. Thou dost almost persuade me to get a fretless banjo. However, I just bought a fretted banjo and am in the process of learning how to play it clawhammer and three finger style. I have a feeling that when it comes time to buy my next banjo (as if any of us could ever have just one :D), it will be minus the frets!
That's music to my ears, James!! Come back to the channel and let me know when you have your new fretless banjo!
Hello Tom: I just got a fretless mountain banjo (Frank Proffett style). Regrading where second fret should be; I have noticed that when I place my finger in a position on the first string to get an E note (using an electronic tuner the see the E note) that I have to move my finger slightly back to get a true E note on the 4th string. It that just the way it is or is the bridge no placed correctly? Help.
coming from the Indian microtonal music background fretless has always been my fascination. It is my first two weeks into the banjo world. I saw another video last week somebody playing a fretless weird looking banjo and I had to skip it coz I was looking at clawhammer technique. But that haunted me so I started to search for fretless banjo. Here I am. Its already clear to me fretless sounds (to me) significantly more sophisticated. I also prefer the nylon string subdued sound. Not sure what is in yours though. Do you do private lessons?
Hey Jeet Ray! So glad you discovered fretless banjo. It's pure magic. Speaking of Indian music, I took a few years of sitar in college and spent a lot of time in India. I hear some common threads between sitar and some banjo modes, techniques and songs. I do give private lessons in person as well as Skype. You can reach me at fivemiles (at) gmail for more information.
Hi Tom. Nice playing! Where do you keep your action on your half fretless enoch? I have a half fretless w a metal plate and it is pretty difficult to play for a long session. The action at the nut seems high to me but I have limited experience.
This is great! I picked up fretless while watching your Roundpeak videos about 10 years ago or so. I have two fretless banjos now, but I really need to work on it. Thanks bringing this topic to the forefront. A huge question or "I would like to know" is on bridge placement. Most folks say "stick wherever," but I find that too simple of an explanation. What are your thoughts? Thanks, again, for everything.
Hey James! Oh man, definitely don't "stick wherever"! A lot of folks think that when playing a fretless banjo you have carte blanche in placing the bridge, but I still like to place the bridge similarly to a fretted banjo using the 5th tuning peg as my reference. Having that 5th peg as a reference is hugely helpful when playing in other positions on the neck.
I am away amazed by how many people use the claw hammer technique to me it seems so unnatural compare to 3 fingers or 2 fingers
Really enjoyed this video. What is the nut width of this particular banjo and the string spacing (outside of 1st to outside of 5th string) where the neck meets the rim? Thank you. :)
Thank you very much, one step further to quit my fretted instrument.
Tom Collins, Grand Master Banjoist, Red Belt
Great video Tom. Is that another Ome banjo? If not, what is it? Looks and sounds great.
Hi Grimnir, the banjo in this video is a model 400 Enoch. It's a real treasure! Thanks for the comment.
I had to go back and watch this to get hand position
Tom you son of a b@$%* I need another banjo now. I now know what Romero banjo I will build in roughly 7 years.
Hahaha!!! Oh man....Romero! He's one of the greats. I'm a huge, slobbering fan of his instruments. People may accuse you of being an idiot for playing the banjo, but you can always smile to yourself knowing that at least you had the smarts to get on Jason Romero's build list.
Thanks again for your fantastic content. I'm loving learning from you. Everything about your videos are a cut above. I really appreciate it.
Been looking for one for years and never can find one locally, in several different cities that I've lived. I didn't want to order one online without being able to play it first so... where the heck do I get one?
I faced the same dilemma. But I accessed an old Gariepy banjo pot in good shape, then swapped another pot I had hanging around with a local luthier who in return made a nice cherry fretless neck and mounted it for me on the Gariepy. An alternative is find an inexpensive fretted banjo and have someone replace the fingerboard with a fretless one. Easy change and not very expensive.
Outstanding! More fretless please... Thanks so much for your insight!
Matthew, I'm a huge fan of Kevin Enoch's instruments. He makes a "Tradesman" model that you can find as a fretless. Used or new, they are fantastic, world-class banjos.
BrooksMT from banjohangout asked me to pass along the suggestion for carver banjos:
carverbanjos.com/product/diy-banjo-kit-minstrel-dlx/
Brooks says "I have both a Carver fretless kit which I built (earlier kit version than one above), and a Carver-made banjo. I am pleased with both. "
I would also suggest looking into a Prust tackhead banjo for another affordable entry into fretless banjos. Mine arrived over the holidays and it is absolutely outstanding:
www.chloesgarden.com/Banjos%20on%20Web/Banjos.htm
Does the tune you're playing at 2:34 have a name?
Cold rain and snow I believe
I dont play guitar or bass, i play drums, and i don't have an excellent ear. I have an OK ear. Should I play the fretless banjo too?? (i really want to)
I was a pro drummer prior to my banjo life, so I'm right there with you! If you want to play fretless banjo, then you should listen to your heart. I got one 6 months into my banjo journey, and spent my first 5 years exclusively playing fretless. So it's totally doable! There are some more difficult elements to the fretless banjo, and there are some easier ones. Make sure you get some good instruction as it can save you time and frustration! Best, Tom
@@FretlessFury Thanks for the reply Tom. Noted. I was looking at the Goldtone fretless which is relatively inexpensive but has fret markers on it. Think that would be ok?
As far as i know, there are no banjo players in my area so my tutelage will have to be online i reckon.
@@cymbolic_space1832 The Gold Tone should be a good starter for sure. Fret markers end up being fairly useless once you get up and running as hand position is what dictates intonation, not looking at the fretboard. It's fine if the banjo has fret markers...just ignore them. Check my channel for more free fretless info, and there's a full 7 day boot camp accessible on my Patreon for $5 a moth (it's called "Banjonaut"). You get access to the Discord community too, which is a great place to ask questions and get guidance. Good luck on your fretless journey!
@@FretlessFury Oh you know once i have my banjo in hand i will be walking around telling people i am a banjonaut 🤣
Many Thanks again. I appreciate the advice.
Fretting with fingernail, especially on slides? It looks like you are doing that except when you reach further down the fretboard with your ring and pinky fingers from your first position which causes them to flatten out a bit where it is impossible to get your fingernail against the fretboard, the intonation is really quite different when you do that and sounds cool. Is that something you do intentionally?
Hi Steve...good eyes/ears! Yes! Fingernails on the steel strings is one of the cornerstone techniques of clawhammer banjo. I believe I discuss this more in subsequent videos about fretless. Thanks for watching! Tom
Tom what kind of Banjo are you playing. Beautiful sound!
Hey Sarvjit, that's a model 400 Enoch. Thanks for your comment!
Is this one a Kevin Enoch or Mike Ramsey banjo? Maybe I guess wrong. : )
Good eyes, Florian! This is a custom model 400 from Kevin Enoch. I get a sense of wonder every time a play it...which is a lot! Thanks so much for your comment.
@@FretlessFury This is a superme beautiful instrument!
absolute beginner here ~ what’s your tuning?
This is in A tuning, Kathleen. aEAC#E
yeah ... if you're looking for frets ...
you're playing by eye, not by ear.
play by ear. ;)
Can you take the frets off of banjo, and still play it with metal strings?
You sure can.
@@FretlessFury when you do this does it sound smooth when you slide over the gaps that are left, or do you need to fill them with something? I love this sound and would be keen to try it myself
Are those frets up the neck, or just markers?
Hey Gary, those are frets.
I thought it was fretless😎
Tom-Are these steel strings ?
Hey Mac....yeah, these are steel.
This did not help my gas for a fretless banjo! I really hope I can find a used one for sale locally, but I kind of doubt I will
Yeah, they can be quite rare! If you open your search to Reverb, Elderly.com and Bernunzio's, you'll have a better chance at finding something. Keep looking! It'll be worth it. Best,
Tom
So ... fret markers are an option. Don't do it?
I personally wouldn't want fret markers.
It such a shame the banjo, no matter what sounds it makes, makes me inevitably think of "Deliverance", the banjo-playing inbred of "Duelling banjos" and "squeal like a pig". I wish they had never made that movie.....
This will cure you: ruclips.net/video/qi3zOTXbLTA/видео.html
I definitely disagree with you about anybody being able to play one.
Just remember if you are singing in church and nobody else near you is singing too,
It is very likely that you are so far off pitch that they CAN'T sing due to your bad pitch.
If this is you, and if you want to play an instrument PLEASE don't try to play a fretless instrument. Your friends and neighbors will forever appreciate your personal sacrifice.
As an added benefit! If you happen to be Catholic, You will probably gain an indulgence just for exercising personal restraint. We can all win here if you happen to be stone cold tone deaf and refuse to try to attempt playing a fretless instrument of any kind.
Thanks man I am saving up to buy a fretless banjo..🪕🪕🪕🪕🪕🪕🪕🪕
Yeah!!! Fretless is freedom! Looking forward to seeing what you can do with one. Cheers! Tom