Ohlins Suspension-First video in a series on valving. Putting together a test shock. www.brennershocks.com Instagram @brennershocks theohlinsguy@gmail.com
I have so much respect for you suspension tuners/techs. Always supporting my local suspension companies. One of these days i'll get some ohlins on my bikes.
Thanks! i know a lot of people make it out to be some dark voodoo science but It isn't. It's just experience and tools. I hope my videos help to show this.
Hi Doug, your video popped up out of nowhere. I'm in Irvine so very close to you. I just got a set of Ohlin R&T for my 2021 BMW M2 Competition. If and when I need servicing done (or revalving), I'll be giving you a call.
I have a 2022 hypermotard SP I've been thinking of re valving I don't ride the track I just simply don't have time for that i-ride Street, and this bike is Harsh as hell on these bumpy roads. So when I first set up the suspension of course I set the SAG and I turned everything out completely to 0 and then slowly started to turn things up. I think I've got it about as good as it gets right now. It does okay at low speed but if I get up about 80 miles an hour on some of these roads it feels like I'm running over parking curbs.
While often the thickness of the clamping shim doesn't matter, if the shim stack is quite soft, it can contact the base-plate at high shaft speed (eg: 1500mm/s), effectively making the shim stack become a restricted throat. This causes the damping curve to become progressive (damping force starts going up exponentially), instead of linear or digressive. While there could be situations where this is a desired behaviour, it usually isn't desired, so it can be eliminated by increasing the thickness of the clamping shim, preventing the tip of the face shim from contacting the base plate. And yes, I've had this happen before, with higher peak high-speed damping forces being made from a softer shim stack, leaving me scratching my head until the penny dropped and I solved the problem. Edit: No torque wrench used for the piston nut??? Perhaps Ohlins might make their pistons out of really rigid material, but with the pistons I've used, changing the tightening torque alters the bleed characteristics of the valve because of piston deflection under the nut. For the pistons I've used, over-tightening lifts the tip of the shim stacks, resulting in excessive bleed. A former colleague also found a similar effect with another brand's pistons. For one product I was helping to develop, I reduced the nut torque spec to prevent the shim tips from opening up a gap and letting too much oil bleed through. Aren't Ohlins sensitive to the tightening torque?
Yep. in the early Ohlins shocks that is how high speed was done. I think I showed one of the angled shims in one of my videos. When you have a very high speed event it is an anomaly and really doesn't matter in your overall damping
@ interesting to hear that Ohlins used to limit the shim tip deflection with the backing plate. I definitely agree that at really high shaft speeds, they're more of anomaly for the vast majority of vehicles/situations.
Nowhere on the internet you can find videos about the development of the (motocross) Ohlins shock absorbers over the last 30 years. Yet THAT would be a particularly interesting topic that would lead to an understanding of the many iterations in constant development. If you compare two shock absorbers in principle (Kawasaki KX500 / 1988 and Kawasaki KXF450 / 2024 - as an example) - what fundamental differences cause the massive progress? Are there big differences in the lever systems? What do the shock absorber pistons look like in direct comparison? How do the control mechanisms work? How do the filling quantities or the oil used differ? How have the shim stacks changed - and why? THAT would be really interesting to hear from an expert!
I am not an expert, just a tech. I am a car racer. I don't know much about motocross almost never do any newer motocross shocks. My mentor, the late Bruce Burness, was on the forefront of this technology in the 70's at the beginning of Ohlins. He was DeCoster's guy for the last two championships and did shocks for motocross champions through the 70's. I am not sure that the shock and forks do the same job with the newer bikes in that so things might be different now with longer travels and a lot of air time. Another problem is that the real guys in the big teams, as in all racing, aren't really giving out the information on what they are doing so a lot of the stuff on the internet comes from "experts" who don't know what they don't know. I wish I could be more help to you but I don't want to be one of those guys with white boards telling people stuff I really don't know about. I am kind of out of stuff I know about.
@@theohlinsguy4649 Thank you for your quick reply! You mentioned that you don't consider yourself an expert. I don't agree with that - and I would like to thank you very much for your videos on RUclips - which provide a lot of important understanding of vehicle suspension. My question in relation to the further development of shock absorbers on motocross motorcycles (but not only there) and a comparison between the mid-80s and today has to do with the fact that even back then the basic development of the lever systems, the length of the spring travel and the chassis geometry itself were very similar (about 95% of the 2024 status) compared to today - but the shock absorbers / front forks certainly weren't. This certainly also applies to the elements for road racing motorcycles in the Superbike and MotoGP competitions. During the 80’s I was involved in the development of chassis- and suspension-systems for teams in the Motocross World Championship (Kawasaki / Yamaha) - so I'm naturally interested in how the problems from back then were solved. This means fundamental changes, not individual adjustments. BR
@@move-it-777 Dampers are there to stop oscillation. The smoother the tire patch is to the ground the more grip. When you start using them for other things it is a slippery slope. My beliefs are: Linear damping with the most compression and the least rebound (usually both are the same value) and the least amount of total damping possible. Rebound is the enemy of grip. In cars, if aero is more important than grip, you might want to use the damper to keep the aero in optimal position rather than worrying about grip. With motocross I don't know what factors are more important. If it is mechanical grip I think these rules still apply. If you have un-linear linkages this probably would be hard to do. Just my opinion
Hello how are you ? I need help with a rear shock absorber on a 2014 KLR650, I am in the middle of Venezuela and no one makes repairs on these parts in this country. Could you help me repair it? Greetings
I’ve learned so much about these shocks watching your vids. Thanks! I rebuilt an old Noleen mountain bike shock and hand bled it carefully. Even with a new seal head rebuild, I found I’m getting a bit of weepage/leakage where the shaft meets the body. Should I rebuild it again or is it possible I filled with too much oil and there is an initial purge? .... I know, hopeful thinking.
Sometimes when hand bleeding oil just gets pooled on top of the seal head. Might be nothing. Once the gas in in see if there is any play in the shaft. If not you are probably OK. Thanks for watching!
Hi. I don't really use any software. I just kind of know what I want to see and mess with it until I get it where I like it. I just have lots of experience but still need to mess with it to get what I want. I have a dyno to see what I have done. I have lots of data stored on my dyno so I kind of know what I have done before to get what I want and I have a starting point. There is no software that tells you what is better or worse that I know of and if you can find one it will be bogus. There is software for Ohlins TTX40s that you can also use with some success on TTX36. Look up Ohlins Valve Referencing Program (VRP). There are a bunch of different shim stacks in the program and last time I looked two valve choices. (linear and digressive) It can get you in the ballpark of where you want to be. I never use two way adjusters (low and high speed) so if you are using single adjustment you can just put the High Speed at about 38 and it usually is close to correct when manipulating the low speed adjustment. Remember that this software just tells you what the damping might look like but not what is better or worse.
Hi Ali. Best way to stiffen if you don't have any adjustment is to revalve. Let me know what you mean by monotube or inverted. Monotube shocks with a nitrogen reservoir and separator piston (not an emulsion shock) are great if they are valved correctly. They can be inverted
Thanks Doug for all the great videos! Learned quite a bit and want to open up my CCJ dampers just for the fun of it. Do you have any recommendations as to how I can loosen the seal head? Ohlins has tool 1626-1 but I can’t seem to find the tool.
I have some 12" travel ohlin offroad coilovers and I haven't been able to find what model they are. So I cant find parts, mabey you would recognize them
Hi Tuan Current racing shocks invariably have an oil reservoir that has a floating separator piston inside and is highly pressurized with nitrogen on the far side of the floating piston. This is necessary to always keep clear oil around the shaft piston. The reservoir has another function which is to accommodate some oil that moves to the reservoir when the shaft is moved into the shock body. As the shock is compressed the shaft and the main piston passes through the oil. Most of the oil moves from one side of the piston to the other. Below the piston it is solid oil. Above the piston there is solid oil and an incoming shaft. All the oil below the piston can’t pass through to the other side of the piston because the shaft is taking up some of the available volume. In addition the shaft takes up more and more volume as it enters the shock. Where does that extra oil go? It goes to the reservoir. To take advantage of this displaced oil, there are some more circuits at the entry to the reservoir that can be used to fine tune the compression damping curves. The reservoir generally has a bleed orifice with an adjustable needle (two-way) and sometimes a device to preload the miniature shims (three-way). Because there is a much smaller amount of oil traveling to the reservoir compared to the oil that crosses the main piston, it is not a good idea to use the reservoir and/or canister for anything other than small adjustments to the compression damping. However, this is still very useful at the racetrack.
There are a couple of potential problems with making too much damping at the reservoir. Depending on the particular shock dimensions, the oil that travels to the reservoir is around 12% of the oil that travels across the main piton. If your shock has a reservoir, the total compression damping is the sum of the damping created at the main piston plus the damping from the reservoir. To keep all the shock oil at the same level of stress, don’t attempt to crate more than 12% of the damping curve at the reservoir. A disproportionate amount of reservoir damping will raise the overall oil pressure, which will increase the hysteresis in the oil. I hope this helps. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@theohlinsguy4649 Thank you very much for your detailed information. I have tried to find the diagram of the STX ohlins suspension (I'm using HO 611 tube), but there's only TTX type available on internet.
Hi Carlos. I am not familiar with PPS. Where are they located? There are plenty of authorized sellers but not many authorized service centers. I think I am the only one authorized for sales and service between Escondido and Monterey. There are even fewer authorized for Auto and Motorcycle both. You can find the Ohlins authorized dealers on the Ohlins USA website.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
might not be an internet sensation - but your content is the kind of thing we need! Thanks!
Thanks!! I'm not worthy!! My best pal Don Peake was racing a Lancia at Riverside when we met in 1968
I have so much respect for you suspension tuners/techs. Always supporting my local suspension companies. One of these days i'll get some ohlins on my bikes.
Thanks! i know a lot of people make it out to be some dark voodoo science but It isn't. It's just experience and tools. I hope my videos help to show this.
These are by far the best videos I've seen on the topic. Thanks for sharing your expertise with all of us!
Thanks Grant! I am glad they were helpful
Best intro i've seen on the subject, thanks for the little hacks along the way too -- would love to see some more videos from you!
Thanks! I'm kind of running out of things I know about!
This guy pretty much sums all those Guru's up in one Basket. Awesome..
Thanks!!
I have thoroughly enjoyed this video and your knowledge i really appreciate these videos !
Thanks!!
Great video. Thank you. I ended up here to understand my mtb shock.
Thanks Thomas!!
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Thanks for watching!!
Thanks for making these videos, very informative and good watches. Keep it up
I try! Thanks!!
Your videos are a treasure. Thank you for sharing your acknowledge.
Thanks Pablo!
Hi Doug, your video popped up out of nowhere. I'm in Irvine so very close to you. I just got a set of Ohlin R&T for my 2021 BMW M2 Competition. If and when I need servicing done (or revalving), I'll be giving you a call.
So grateful that you shared your knowledge. Excellent video. Great approach and well put together. I'll be watching more soon. Thank you sir.
Thanks for watching!!
@@theohlinsguy4649 I'm still watching your videos. Loads of good info.
Thank you sir for this great videos!
Thanks for watching. I am trying!
A bit easier having larger pieces than they bike counterparts ;)
That's exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks for taking the time, great work!
Thanks Heinz!
Sir i just found your youtube channel. It is golden! Thank you for sharing. Thanks amlion!
Glad it helped
Great video, Mr.
Thanks!!
This is pure Gold
I have a 2022 hypermotard SP I've been thinking of re valving I don't ride the track I just simply don't have time for that i-ride Street, and this bike is Harsh as hell on these bumpy roads. So when I first set up the suspension of course I set the SAG and I turned everything out completely to 0 and then slowly started to turn things up. I think I've got it about as good as it gets right now. It does okay at low speed but if I get up about 80 miles an hour on some of these roads it feels like I'm running over parking curbs.
Does this have Ohlins suspension? Electronic?
While often the thickness of the clamping shim doesn't matter, if the shim stack is quite soft, it can contact the base-plate at high shaft speed (eg: 1500mm/s), effectively making the shim stack become a restricted throat. This causes the damping curve to become progressive (damping force starts going up exponentially), instead of linear or digressive. While there could be situations where this is a desired behaviour, it usually isn't desired, so it can be eliminated by increasing the thickness of the clamping shim, preventing the tip of the face shim from contacting the base plate. And yes, I've had this happen before, with higher peak high-speed damping forces being made from a softer shim stack, leaving me scratching my head until the penny dropped and I solved the problem.
Edit: No torque wrench used for the piston nut??? Perhaps Ohlins might make their pistons out of really rigid material, but with the pistons I've used, changing the tightening torque alters the bleed characteristics of the valve because of piston deflection under the nut. For the pistons I've used, over-tightening lifts the tip of the shim stacks, resulting in excessive bleed. A former colleague also found a similar effect with another brand's pistons. For one product I was helping to develop, I reduced the nut torque spec to prevent the shim tips from opening up a gap and letting too much oil bleed through. Aren't Ohlins sensitive to the tightening torque?
Yep. in the early Ohlins shocks that is how high speed was done. I think I showed one of the angled shims in one of my videos. When you have a very high speed event it is an anomaly and really doesn't matter in your overall damping
@ interesting to hear that Ohlins used to limit the shim tip deflection with the backing plate. I definitely agree that at really high shaft speeds, they're more of anomaly for the vast majority of vehicles/situations.
I love the credentials right off the bat. Bona fide.
Thanks! I'm just a lucky guy
Nowhere on the internet you can find videos about the development of the (motocross) Ohlins shock absorbers over the last 30 years. Yet THAT would be a particularly interesting topic that would lead to an understanding of the many iterations in constant development. If you compare two shock absorbers in principle (Kawasaki KX500 / 1988 and Kawasaki KXF450 / 2024 - as an example) - what fundamental differences cause the massive progress? Are there big differences in the lever systems? What do the shock absorber pistons look like in direct comparison? How do the control mechanisms work? How do the filling quantities or the oil used differ? How have the shim stacks changed - and why? THAT would be really interesting to hear from an expert!
I am not an expert, just a tech. I am a car racer. I don't know much about motocross almost never do any newer motocross shocks. My mentor, the late Bruce Burness, was on the forefront of this technology in the 70's at the beginning of Ohlins. He was DeCoster's guy for the last two championships and did shocks for motocross champions through the 70's. I am not sure that the shock and forks do the same job with the newer bikes in that so things might be different now with longer travels and a lot of air time. Another problem is that the real guys in the big teams, as in all racing, aren't really giving out the information on what they are doing so a lot of the stuff on the internet comes from "experts" who don't know what they don't know. I wish I could be more help to you but I don't want to be one of those guys with white boards telling people stuff I really don't know about. I am kind of out of stuff I know about.
@@theohlinsguy4649 Thank you for your quick reply! You mentioned that you don't consider yourself an expert. I don't agree with that - and I would like to thank you very much for your videos on RUclips - which provide a lot of important understanding of vehicle suspension. My question in relation to the further development of shock absorbers on motocross motorcycles (but not only there) and a comparison between the mid-80s and today has to do with the fact that even back then the basic development of the lever systems, the length of the spring travel and the chassis geometry itself were very similar (about 95% of the 2024 status) compared to today - but the shock absorbers / front forks certainly weren't. This certainly also applies to the elements for road racing motorcycles in the Superbike and MotoGP competitions. During the 80’s I was involved in the development of chassis- and suspension-systems for teams in the Motocross World Championship (Kawasaki / Yamaha) - so I'm naturally interested in how the problems from back then were solved. This means fundamental changes, not individual adjustments. BR
@@move-it-777 Dampers are there to stop oscillation. The smoother the tire patch is to the ground the more grip. When you start using them for other things it is a slippery slope. My beliefs are: Linear damping with the most compression and the least rebound (usually both are the same value) and the least amount of total damping possible. Rebound is the enemy of grip. In cars, if aero is more important than grip, you might want to use the damper to keep the aero in optimal position rather than worrying about grip. With motocross I don't know what factors are more important. If it is mechanical grip I think these rules still apply. If you have un-linear linkages this probably would be hard to do. Just my opinion
A really great video!
Thanks for watching!
Awesome to find your channel
Thanks! I hope it helps.
Thank you for all
Thanks Oguzturk!!
Hello how are you ? I need help with a rear shock absorber on a 2014 KLR650, I am in the middle of Venezuela and no one makes repairs on these parts in this country. Could you help me repair it? Greetings
I’ve learned so much about these shocks watching your vids. Thanks! I rebuilt an old Noleen mountain bike shock and hand bled it carefully. Even with a new seal head rebuild, I found I’m getting a bit of weepage/leakage where the shaft meets the body. Should I rebuild it again or is it possible I filled with too much oil and there is an initial purge? .... I know, hopeful thinking.
Sometimes when hand bleeding oil just gets pooled on top of the seal head. Might be nothing. Once the gas in in see if there is any play in the shaft. If not you are probably OK. Thanks for watching!
A lot of experiencie there!
Thanks!!
What software do you use for shim stack design?
Hi. I don't really use any software. I just kind of know what I want to see and mess with it until I get it where I like it. I just have lots of experience but still need to mess with it to get what I want. I have a dyno to see what I have done. I have lots of data stored on my dyno so I kind of know what I have done before to get what I want and I have a starting point. There is no software that tells you what is better or worse that I know of and if you can find one it will be bogus. There is software for Ohlins TTX40s that you can also use with some success on TTX36. Look up Ohlins Valve Referencing Program (VRP). There are a bunch of different shim stacks in the program and last time I looked two valve choices. (linear and digressive) It can get you in the ballpark of where you want to be. I never use two way adjusters (low and high speed) so if you are using single adjustment you can just put the High Speed at about 38 and it usually is close to correct when manipulating the low speed adjustment. Remember that this software just tells you what the damping might look like but not what is better or worse.
What oil is the green crap you are referring to?
I don't know the name of it. i just see it in some forks and shocks I service
Sir may i ask a couple question?
1.How do i stiffen my stock struts and absorber?
Which is better monotube or inverted?
Hi Ali. Best way to stiffen if you don't have any adjustment is to revalve. Let me know what you mean by monotube or inverted. Monotube shocks with a nitrogen reservoir and separator piston (not an emulsion shock) are great if they are valved correctly. They can be inverted
In suspension settings everything is a compromise
Yep, perfect is the enemy of good! There are no solutions, just compromises
@@theohlinsguy4649 Well Said👍
Thanks Doug for all the great videos! Learned quite a bit and want to open up my CCJ dampers just for the fun of it. Do you have any recommendations as to how I can loosen the seal head? Ohlins has tool 1626-1 but I can’t seem to find the tool.
I don't think that # is good. An 15/8" open end wrench will get it off. Be sure to depressurize first.
Great videos man. Thanks for sharing the black magic! Lol
It's not rocket science!! Thanks for watching
is there a way i can change valving to have wayy less rebound for drag racing?
Do you have Ohlins? Some shocks are not re-valvable but if they are that is easily done.
@@theohlinsguy4649 Unfortunatly i dont but i have the shock apart and i can re shim it. like your video
Great. Hang in there. Too much rebound is the enemy of grip
Why did you quit doing videos?
Hi! I have run out of things I know about. I don't want to be one of those people with white boards talking about things they know nothing about
@theohlinsguy4649 Ok, well as a subscriber I don't feel like I know everything you do yet lol
I have some 12" travel ohlin offroad coilovers and I haven't been able to find what model they are. So I cant find parts, mabey you would recognize them
I probably could. Send pictures to theohlinsguy@gmail.com
@@theohlinsguy4649 sent
Dear Sir,
Could you help me to understand how the compression adjuster on external Piggy back reservoir work? I mean the STX suspension (not new TTX).
Hi Tuan
Current racing shocks invariably have an oil reservoir that has a floating separator piston inside and is highly pressurized with nitrogen on the far side of the floating piston. This is necessary to always keep clear oil around the shaft piston. The reservoir has another function which is to accommodate some oil that moves to the reservoir when the shaft is moved into the shock body. As the shock is compressed the shaft and the main piston passes through the oil. Most of the oil moves from one side of the piston to the other. Below the piston it is solid oil. Above the piston there is solid oil and an incoming shaft. All the oil below the piston can’t pass through to the other side of the piston because the shaft is taking up some of the available volume. In addition the shaft takes up more and more volume as it enters the shock. Where does that extra oil go? It goes to the reservoir. To take advantage of this displaced oil, there are some more circuits at the entry to the reservoir that can be used to fine tune the compression damping curves. The reservoir generally has a bleed orifice with an adjustable needle (two-way) and sometimes a device to preload the miniature shims (three-way). Because there is a much smaller amount of oil traveling to the reservoir compared to the oil that crosses the main piston, it is not a good idea to use the reservoir and/or canister for anything other than small adjustments to the compression damping. However, this is still very useful at the racetrack.
There are a couple of potential problems with making too much damping at the reservoir. Depending on the particular shock dimensions, the oil that travels to the reservoir is around 12% of the oil that travels across the main piton. If your shock has a reservoir, the total compression damping is the sum of the damping created at the main piston plus the damping from the reservoir. To keep all the shock oil at the same level of stress, don’t attempt to crate more than 12% of the damping curve at the reservoir. A disproportionate amount of reservoir damping will raise the overall oil pressure, which will increase the hysteresis in the oil.
I hope this helps. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@theohlinsguy4649 Thank you very much for your detailed information. I have tried to find the diagram of the STX ohlins suspension (I'm using HO 611 tube), but there's only TTX type available on internet.
@@TuanAnhSym Email me and I can send you a HO 611 spare parts list if that will help. theohlinsguy@gmail.com
Do some stuff on the ohlins TTX 22M
When I get one in here I will do a video for you. Thanks for watching and the comment!
i though PPS was the only Ohlins certified in California
Hi Carlos. I am not familiar with PPS. Where are they located? There are plenty of authorized sellers but not many authorized service centers. I think I am the only one authorized for sales and service between Escondido and Monterey. There are even fewer authorized for Auto and Motorcycle both. You can find the Ohlins authorized dealers on the Ohlins USA website.
The green crap is most likely aMsOiL shock therapy 5 😂 glad to see young guys like yourself learning suspension 🙂
Thanks for making these videos, very informative and good watches. Keep it up