Drachinifel, what if the airborne aircraft carriers USS Akron and Macon survived the weather conditions that downed them? What would the impact on naval aviation be?
Do you know how much of a problem overpenetrations were in real life? At the Battle of Samar, Japanese Battleships fired on destroyers and escord carriers and overpenned them. I guess this was a combination of multiple factors: the japanese thinking they were fireing at larger targets and having the diving shell system, which in itself makes a longer fuse delay nessassary. Now my question is how much of a problem were overpens in an "equal" combat situation, so a battleship vs battleship or cruiser vs cruiser engagement? Would a hit in the thinner areas of a ship (for example superstructure and bows - especially cruiser bows) always result in an overpen? How did different nations handle the problem? The fact that in the Battle of the Denmark Straight Prince of Wales was hit below the armor belt by a diving shell (that would have exploded before hitting the ship if it had not been a dud) seems to indicate that the Kriegsmarine had a shorter fuse delay, how did other navys handle this? And is it roughly known how many hits were actual overpens?
Aw, you didn’t mention how San Fransisco was the ship that crippled the battlecruiser Hiei! She needs the credit of destroying both a friendly but also a more powerful enemy ship that night!
Did you get a chance to write down or record his experiences? If not write every thing down for further generation, So important,we lost so much! For the men who didn't know if they would see the sun arise the next day, Trust me I was there in 1975 to 1978 on the Checkovalkan border on a HAWK Missile Site ,TCA SGT life expectancy 6 seconds, it was real as your mother father and your family is real! Your dad was a Survivor in my book.Top of the line Suvivor.
My father in law C. B. W. was onboard the New Orleans on Dec 7th 1941. His favorite story was about the Chaplain who famously said ‘praise the lord and pass the ammunition.’ R. I. P. Charles.
It's funny how looking at a treaty cruiser like these lets you recognize instantly that they were built in peacetime. Just compare them to a Baltimore or Cleveland and not the vast difference in the amount of boats and dakka. That's something I noticed when I visited the North Carolina in October: almost no boats. They had one or two launches and that's about it.
the thing in wartime is: when you are in a situation that requries you to leave the ship, it is very likely that your ship has sustained heavy damage and is in danger of sinking. In that case, it is very possible that your weak wooden boats have a lot of holes in them, or are smashed to pieces. And in most cases you are part of a fleet so help for the survivors is nearby anyways. If you have the choice between more boats or more AA guns, you take the guns
@@xxnightdriverxx9576 Yeah, I kinda that from the whole "at war' bit. Just saying it's funny how readily apparent a wartime design is from a peacetime one.
After reading 'Neptune's Inferno' - I got the impression that one of the major 'lessons learned' were to get rid of anything flammable or combustible. One major issue in those battles was the huge fires that started when the hangers were hit. Even worse if they hadn't pitched the airplanes overboard yet.
In actual service there would be a few more, like stowed wooden and canvas collapsible boats stowed near the divats, and a large number of emergency carley floats and inflatable life boats. The overall lack of medium and larger wooden boats comes partly from the changes in sea born resupply ( fuel oil did not need boats to do things like transfer coal, and more supplies transferred by hoist or cable lines ), as well as a change in usage of cruisers to land large shore parties . Generally many museum ships lack the funding to fully recreate all of the equipment a large capital ship would carry or have stored aboard too. For educational purposes you don't really need all the duplicate items of a ships load out, just one or two for illustration.
Same as dressing in layers for winter. If you have too much you can just not use some. If you don't have enough you are in a dfferent situation indeed, aren't you?
Admiral Tiberius the actor Jason robards , who played general short in the 1970 movie Tora,Tora,Tora was also on the new Orleans when pearl harbor was attacked
My former neighbor was a sailor on the Minneapolis, after her bow had been replaced. He said most of the action he saw was against aircraft. In line with guns, more guns and still more guns, he got to carry a Tommy gun.
Cool! Have to admit, as an Alabamian, part of the fun was hearing Tuscaloosa pronounced with a British accent. The other part is now having my curiosity piqued - I'm off to go look up the USS Tuscaloosa! Thanks for the cool video!
Forgive him, he's British. They don't speak English very well over there. (Put down that eyebrow, I'm kidding. If I remember correctly, the french pronunciation doesn't have the "s".)
You should look at the Black Swan class sloops of the Royal Navy and HMS Amethyst in particular. Aside from sinking 2 U-boats in the Atlantic, her involvement in the Yangtze incident of 1949 was a rare piece of good news in the post war quagmire of British decline. And... one of the class remained in service with the Egyptian navy until relativity recently.
To all those complaining about the pronunciation of New Orleans... An understandable and I hope forgiveable mistake. We English can barely agree on how to pronounce most of our own place names (let alone foreign ones). It varies massively based on accent, geography and history of each area and each "clan"* of people. I know a lot of my friends from around the world (especially Europe and the US. Less so Aus/NZ) really don't get this about us... So let me share a brief example to highlight what I'm on about. In my area there is a village who's name is pronounced coopen with a shortened en sound on the end. So almost cooopn as we really enunceate the oo sound in the north east (especially on the coast). Anywhere else in the country it would no doubt be pronounced how it's spelt Cowpen or maybe c-aow-pen. Other parts of England would say it k-oh-pen with a k rather than a c sound and a oh rather than oo. Proof the English language is indeed a massive muddle. Especially in England herself! Miss pronouncing a place name half a world away I hope really is forgivable.
*Not a good word but hard to choose the right one. I speak of the fact that people from certain areas and professions will identify as being from a shared community. Though it's not always down to being from a geographic area. And it also includes family heritage. For example I'm a Smoggy but with Pit Yakka, Sand Dancer, Mackem and Brackem in my veins even though I'm neither really.... And if you can work any of that out. Have a canny Christmas!
@@AdamMGTF I always told my English cousins that they got even by foisting English on the rest of us. They responded by pointing out that I was from Brooklyn...
@@ONECOUNT lol old joke here. The English invented the langue. The Americans ruined it. Total rubbish but a classic joke. I've been across the bridge. Visited NY with my collage. Amazing place
Being from the southern United States, hearing you say that we were like "guns, guns, and more guns" on our ships.... yeah, guns are a religion of their own here..... And while many may not like it, I am ok with it.
In the movie they referred to their ship as, "Old Swayback", (an obvious reference to the USS Salt Lake City (CA-25)), which was sometimes known as "Swayback Maru" or "Old Swayback".
Good rundown on this class of cruisers, but you slighted the San Francisco. Yes she did get pounded on by Kirishima, and inadvertently pounded on the Atlanta, the action this happened in off Guadalcanal was actually the brightest moment in the stellar career of the most decorated cruiser in the US Navy during WWII. At the time of the engagement, she was the heaviest warship that the USN had in the waters around Guadalcanal, and the Japanese sent Kirishima and her sistership Hiei to bombard Henderson Field to eliminate the airgroup there. On the night of November 13, 1942, she along with escorting destroyers and the Atlanta intercepted and stopped the Japanese bombardment group and nearly sinking the Hiei. 4 Medals of Honor were awarded to her personnel, only one of which wasn't posthumous. She went on to earn a total of 17 battle stars for her service.
Back then nobody cared about warships. But if I could wave a magic wand. I would save one of the pre-war heavy cruisers and have it as a museum ship. Yes, I know there is USS Salem. But something about those heavy cruisers interest me more than the Baltimore/Oregon/Des Moines.
I always found the New Orleans class attrctive looking ships, maybe because it looks like a British warship with the long forecastle. One of them would have made a fine museum ship.
Something I find interesting is not only did MINNEAPOLIS and NEW ORLEANS lose their bows in battle but surveys of the ASTORIA and QUINCY wrecks show they, too, are minus their bows. A possible design flaw??
The USS Astoria was featured in the Alternate History Novel; Weapons of Choice. While it didn't get destroyed in Savo Island, it had the misfortune of getting a time traveling 21st Century Stealth Cruiser fused into its forward 8" turret like an unfolded leatherman multitool. It later sunk but most of the crew survived despite attempts to shoot the other ship that had basically teleported into it with it's 8" rear turret.
I'm playing WoWs now and just recently started one of the heavy cruiser lines. I'm on the Pensacola now and I'm almost done with that and continuing my way to the New Orleans.
My grandfather served as ship's doctor on the Minneapolis from the mid-late 1930s. I think he was with her til around 1943 when he was transferred to one of the escort carriers in the Pacific.
Three guides in one day and it's not even my birthday! I've never found an answer to this one. Was there a weakness in the forward scantlings in this class? It seems like almost any torpedo hit from the bridge forward caused the bow to be blown off.
I can't answer that question. But it did make me think of the "well the front fell off by all means" sketch. Not sure if it translates into American humour too well as it's very much a British style sketch. If you haven't seen it. Please do. It's on here and is hallerious! Side note. Because of this joke. Behind my drift cars front bumper, on the crash beam. Is a sticker that can only be read if I nock the front bumper off. Saying "well .... The front fell off by all means". . End of my ramble for the night. Merry Christmas SarJim
@@AdamMGTF LOL. I've seen the "front fell off" sketch. It doesn't translate to American humor very well, but I liked it. Of course, I also liked Monty Python and Fawlty Towers, so that should tell you something. :-) It wasn't just the older cruisers with weak bows, and it wasn't just from torpedoes. USS Pittsburgh, a Baltimore class heavy, lost its bow in a typhoon in June, 1945, although the still floating bow was rounded up by a Navy tug and towed to Guam. I've never read a complete report on the all too frequent bow failures, but it seems the extensive use of the still not well understood challenges of naval welding contributed to it. There were also problems with the speed of the work and inspections not always carried out. The same kinds of issues plagued Liberty ships, made even worse by the intramural competition for bonuses based on how fast a ship was built.
@@sarjim4381 It seems that the loss of bows to Long Lance torpedoes was in a way a good thing as the ships remained stable and upright. I imagine a flooded bow would act as a giant lever pulling the stern out of the water. Sort of a Titanic effect. It also showed good watertight integrity given the extent of the damage. Now let me see two extra bows were built... does that make eight ships?
The Mongoose we had a carrier actually two and two cruisers and we have the worlds last tribal class destroyer because the rest of the commonwealth broke theirs and at the end of the war had the fifth most powerful navy in the world only class we didn’t have was a battle ship but hey you guys didn’t have two carriers so I call that fair
My uncle Harmon was on her until the end of the war. He then sent to eod school. He tells a hilarious story, about not passing the eye test because they did too much exercise.
How are the barrels in the triple turrets mounted so close together? On all other warships with triples there is a significant (at least double barrel width) gap between barrels, or like Belfast staggered positions.
These treaty cruisers all had the guns mounted in a single cradle, so they are quite properly called triple turrets. When the guns are in separate cradles (able to elevate independently) it is a three-gun turret. The single cradle probably makes it easier to mount them so close together.
@@kemarisite That is also all relevant to that. Lacking the need for additional elevation gearing means that there is no need to space the guns as far apart to fit them. Italian cruisers took this to a extreme (with consequences) compared to even the USN Treaty Heavy Cruisers.
Yes. And the "s" is not silent in U S S Vincennes ( CA-44 ). I don't think the French pronounce it like Drachinifel
5 лет назад
How can you be "utterly decimated"? Decimate was a roman punishment for soldiers who underperformed. They would be lined up and every tenth man killed. Decimate = one in ten. Decimal = 10%. It's actually important and I'm surprised Drach got it wrong.
An understandable mistake. We English can barely agree on how to pronounce most of our own place names. It varies massively based on accent. Heck. In my area there is a village who's name is pronounced coopen with a short en sound on the end. So almost cooopn as we really enunceate the oo sound in the north east (especially on the coast). Anywhere else in the country it would no doubt be pronounced how it's spelt Cowpen or maybe cow-pen. Other parts of England would say it k-oh-pen with a k rather than a c sound and a oh rather than oo. Proof the English language is indeed a massive muddle. Especially in England herself! Miss pronouncing a place name half a world away I hope really is forgivable.
@@AdamMGTF yes, definitely an understandable mistake. Especially when Orleans is French (which is probably why he's following the French rule of silent trailing s.) Even worse, natives of New Orleans pronounce "Orleans" differently when saying "New Orleans" and "Orleans Parish"...
@@RonJohn63 proof the only consistent thing in language is its inconsistencies! Lol I was going to consider the French angle. But I'd already went off on a huge tangent haha. I love accents and the weridness of the English language. Anyone who needs an introduction to the confusing state of English accents. Just needs to hear the two accents of the two cities in England called "Newcastle". Better yet. Just hear people from both cities say the name of where they live. It's comical. Side side note. I was checking into a hotel in New York years ago. The lady at the desk took my passport and said "oooo your English. I love the English accent" she then said "I do hope you enjoy your stay, please mention if you need a thing" in a fairly decent impression of the queen's English. Being from the north east and with family that are Geordies (RUclips the accent lol). I couldn't pass up the opportunity. My reply was along the lines of "Aye why eye pet al be grand. Div-ya-knaw where me anwer palls can grab a bevvy. Will be gannin oot on the toon the night like, but a quicken would be reet canny". All said in rapid fire in the way only a Geordie can. At which point I laughed and switched back to my normal smoggie accent (very different but still nowhere near queen's English). Apologised that I couldn't give her the accent she wanted. But that she was very kind and I'd enjoy my stay I'm sure. She was lovely. As we're all New Yorkers I met actually (I found the reputation they have was nowhere to be seen). Anyway. About to toll midnight here. All the best from a small part of England! Merry Christmas (I think you say happy Holidays there? Either way. All the best!)
The cruiser New Orleans had it's bow blown off in the Battle of Savo Island. I believe a Japanese torpedo struck the bow and ignited the aviation fuel stored there.
Both of these battles were serious setbacks. It explains why Japan stood with a reasonable chance in a defensive posture until the Battle of the Philippine Sea. They were still mopping up Kwantung Army troops in Guadalcanal and New Guinea in 1944. Unlike Germany, they were in continuous action since China (Namohan Bridge) in 1937. Talk about a tough nut the crack. Strange enough the MO operation seemed to run simultaneously with Stalingrad at the end but with 41st and 144th regiments in addition to a 15th Independent Engineers Regiment with setbacks and all. Supply problems and lack of replacements at Ioribaiwa overlooking Imita Ridge in September 1942 were the same problems Von Paulus had to face except in a jungle warfare environment with near mountain climbing activities involved. This is over the watershed of the Owen Stanley Ranges as well. Japan's 17th Army was shacked up in what was called Nankai City in Rabaul like some sort of Pacific Taman Bridgehead. The only real difference in equilibrium with timelines is that the Spanish Civil War gave Germany a training ground for the Luftwaffe. It is very strange how things pan out sometimes.
*machinist mate in the background* I could make something work... the question is where to find sufficient duct tape... [Ignoring I don't think miracle tape existed yet].
@@ShadrachVS1 Actually it not only existed - it had been specifically developed to make ammunition cans waterproof again after they had been opened. And the original brand name was: 'Duck Tape' - named for how water rolls off a duck's feathers. The tape became wildly popular with GIs for the same reason it's popular today - you can use it for just about anything.
@@colincampbell767 huh, I was under the impression it was based off of a tape to repair duct work that failed to meet expectations and was developed in the late 1940s.
@Nguyen Johnathan no. Cruisers did not use the "all or nothing" armor. its called being under 10,000 tons and thus little armor combined with Japanese having very fast torpedos. All the ships in that played the "bow fell off" trick were also Cruisers that got hit by Japanese Long Lance Torpedos.
Battle of Savo Island - an excellent example of racist assumptions (on the part of the Americans) costing lives. That said, Pearl Harbor is the example of racist assumptions on the part of the Japanese costing a war......
Drach, your robot voice at the end of each video speaks with remarkable clarity and has loads of character. Would you mind sharing what the proper software name is, the cost and where it can be purchased? I'm quite enamoured of it. Thanks very much, DTV
I hold special resentment for the "NO" (it's almost a clue, "i think i might try the..." NO!) In wows the guns reload too slowly for HE spam, AP is very weak and everything from distance or head on ricochets (no real surprise I know) but up close where you might get a broadside citadel you'll get quickly deleted, its not stealthy and has not torps, Whenever I went out in it I felt like I was just there to be a target. Hated every single game. I got half way through and then freeXP'd my way out of the hell into the baltimore.....which is more of the same......and the same with the buffalo, infact I also hated the pensacola, Effectively tier6-9 was a looong grind. As great as the des moines is it does not make up for 4 tiers of hell before it. I prefer my pheonix/omaha/st louis/new mexico/wickes to it, Even the Erie has a certain charm. (and obviously my atlanta/cleveland/n.carolina/alabama/iowa/missouri/montana/salem which are mostly higher tiers). Atleast maybe there will be some good history to the ship in this video to make me hate it less?
Hay just a quick edit, Frisco shot up Atlanta, holed Heies steering room, and got gang banged by Kirishima and Half the IJN formation in the same battle not two different ones. Also I was expecting a quite technical recap of NoLa not just a wiki of the class and a recap of he stats. She was extensively damaged and analysis of the damage and AAR would have been a worthy addition.
I can quite safely say as a speaker of Southern American English, It's not pronounced New Orleens But it's pronounced new aw-lens, An it's not tooscaloosa its Tuscaloosa Tusk-a-loo-sa
So there is a mobile game and anime show called Azur Lane. It will either make you laugh or cry. However, I do suggest giving it a try just for the giggles.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Drachinifel, what if the airborne aircraft carriers USS Akron and Macon survived the weather conditions that downed them? What would the impact on naval aviation be?
FAA aircraft in WW2
Do you know how much of a problem overpenetrations were in real life? At the Battle of Samar, Japanese Battleships fired on destroyers and escord carriers and overpenned them. I guess this was a combination of multiple factors: the japanese thinking they were fireing at larger targets and having the diving shell system, which in itself makes a longer fuse delay nessassary. Now my question is how much of a problem were overpens in an "equal" combat situation, so a battleship vs battleship or cruiser vs cruiser engagement? Would a hit in the thinner areas of a ship (for example superstructure and bows - especially cruiser bows) always result in an overpen? How did different nations handle the problem? The fact that in the Battle of the Denmark Straight Prince of Wales was hit below the armor belt by a diving shell (that would have exploded before hitting the ship if it had not been a dud) seems to indicate that the Kriegsmarine had a shorter fuse delay, how did other navys handle this? And is it roughly known how many hits were actual overpens?
How does terni face hardened stand up to german kc or british armor.
@@TheAngelobarker depends on the thickness, battleship grade or cruiser grade?
One of my uncles served on the Astoria, and survived her sinking. He never would talk about it.
I'm not surprised. A reminder these weren't just ships sunk. But lives lost and forever changed. I hope he has enjoyed the respect he deserves.
Don't blame him. The battle of Savo Island was horrific even by war standards.
Aw, you didn’t mention how San Fransisco was the ship that crippled the battlecruiser Hiei! She needs the credit of destroying both a friendly but also a more powerful enemy ship that night!
"Wore out her guns and had to get new ones." Well now.
Wasn't just Warspite that did that trick then.
@@Deevo037 the Nevada and Pennsylvania had that happen to them to
@Deevo037 Belfast too 🙂
My dad was a marine stationed onboard the NOLA during the Battle of Tassafaronga.
Did you get a chance to write down or record his experiences? If not write every thing down for further generation, So important,we lost so much! For the men who didn't know if they would see the sun arise the next day, Trust me I was there in 1975 to 1978 on the Checkovalkan border on a HAWK Missile Site ,TCA SGT life expectancy 6 seconds, it was real as your mother father and your family is real! Your dad was a Survivor in my book.Top of the line Suvivor.
I am a bit late, but I just thought of a design for a t-shirt:
Damn the death rays, full speed ahead.
- HMS Thunderchild, Probably.
Hello boys, I'm BAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
(Fictionalized United States Version of Fictional HMS Thunderchild) USS Thunderchild - Probably?
funny, I first thought of Johnston DD-557 when reading the 'Independence day' quote in ref to the Thunderchild. lol.
My father in law C. B. W. was onboard the New Orleans on Dec 7th 1941. His favorite story was about the Chaplain who famously said ‘praise the lord and pass the ammunition.’ R. I. P. Charles.
6:38 That color photo of Quincy was taken at New Caledonia just several days before she was sunk at Savo Island
It's funny how looking at a treaty cruiser like these lets you recognize instantly that they were built in peacetime. Just compare them to a Baltimore or Cleveland and not the vast difference in the amount of boats and dakka.
That's something I noticed when I visited the North Carolina in October: almost no boats. They had one or two launches and that's about it.
the thing in wartime is: when you are in a situation that requries you to leave the ship, it is very likely that your ship has sustained heavy damage and is in danger of sinking. In that case, it is very possible that your weak wooden boats have a lot of holes in them, or are smashed to pieces. And in most cases you are part of a fleet so help for the survivors is nearby anyways. If you have the choice between more boats or more AA guns, you take the guns
@@xxnightdriverxx9576 Yeah, I kinda that from the whole "at war' bit. Just saying it's funny how readily apparent a wartime design is from a peacetime one.
Remember also that the technology involved in inflatable rafts got a lot better pretty quickly in the 20's and 30's as well.
After reading 'Neptune's Inferno' - I got the impression that one of the major 'lessons learned' were to get rid of anything flammable or combustible. One major issue in those battles was the huge fires that started when the hangers were hit. Even worse if they hadn't pitched the airplanes overboard yet.
In actual service there would be a few more, like stowed wooden and canvas collapsible boats stowed near the divats, and a large number of emergency carley floats and inflatable life boats.
The overall lack of medium and larger wooden boats comes partly from the changes in sea born resupply ( fuel oil did not need boats to do things like transfer coal, and more supplies transferred by hoist or cable lines ), as well as a change in usage of cruisers to land large shore parties .
Generally many museum ships lack the funding to fully recreate all of the equipment a large capital ship would carry or have stored aboard too. For educational purposes you don't really need all the duplicate items of a ships load out, just one or two for illustration.
"Guns, guns, and more guns...." - Drach - 2019.
...and 2018, 2017...
(it's kind of his catchphrase ;) )
Same as dressing in layers for winter. If you have too much you can just not use some. If you don't have enough you are in a dfferent situation indeed, aren't you?
With enough dakka anything can be killed....
@@Colonel_Overkill True... though accuracy also matters ;) .
^ Well; that missed the point entirely :p .
"Guns, guns... and even more Guns..." you say that like it is a bad thing...
Well, because they had to use ALL OF THEM
The 2nd amendment Anti Aircraft rights 😏
ger du Americans (ships) mostly got pretty good at that.
My father served as the new San Francisco was Commissioned.
1933-1937, he was a Helmsman & battle station was no. 2 turret.
Admiral Tiberius the actor Jason robards , who played general short in the 1970 movie Tora,Tora,Tora was also on the new Orleans when pearl harbor was attacked
My former neighbor was a sailor on the Minneapolis, after her bow had been replaced. He said most of the action he saw was against aircraft. In line with guns, more guns and still more guns, he got to carry a Tommy gun.
Cool! Have to admit, as an Alabamian, part of the fun was hearing Tuscaloosa pronounced with a British accent.
The other part is now having my curiosity piqued - I'm off to go look up the USS Tuscaloosa!
Thanks for the cool video!
Yeah, I'm still snickering about that. You should hear them say Birmingham!
The USS Vincennes ca-44 is always gonna be my favorite
3 uploads, Christmas has come early! Thanks Drach, have a lovely Christmas and New Year
A worthwhile 7 minutes. For what it is worth, seeing "Human Voice" made me watch.
Can't wait for the Zeven Provinciën video! But I like all other videos as well, great work, very informative. Keep it up (please).
"Guns, guns, and more guns..." that should be all over Drachinifel Merch !
Forgive him, he's British. They don't speak English very well over there. (Put down that eyebrow, I'm kidding. If I remember correctly, the french pronunciation doesn't have the "s".)
You should look at the Black Swan class sloops of the Royal Navy and HMS Amethyst in particular. Aside from sinking 2 U-boats in the Atlantic, her involvement in the Yangtze incident of 1949 was a rare piece of good news in the post war quagmire of British decline.
And... one of the class remained in service with the Egyptian navy until relativity recently.
Coffee break,, ahhhhhh Drach and coffee,,,, perfect
To all those complaining about the pronunciation of New Orleans...
An understandable and I hope forgiveable mistake.
We English can barely agree on how to pronounce most of our own place names (let alone foreign ones). It varies massively based on accent, geography and history of each area and each "clan"* of people.
I know a lot of my friends from around the world (especially Europe and the US. Less so Aus/NZ) really don't get this about us... So let me share a brief example to highlight what I'm on about. In my area there is a village who's name is pronounced coopen with a shortened en sound on the end. So almost cooopn as we really enunceate the oo sound in the north east (especially on the coast).
Anywhere else in the country it would no doubt be pronounced how it's spelt Cowpen or maybe c-aow-pen. Other parts of England would say it k-oh-pen with a k rather than a c sound and a oh rather than oo.
Proof the English language is indeed a massive muddle. Especially in England herself! Miss pronouncing a place name half a world away I hope really is forgivable.
*Not a good word but hard to choose the right one. I speak of the fact that people from certain areas and professions will identify as being from a shared community. Though it's not always down to being from a geographic area. And it also includes family heritage. For example I'm a Smoggy but with Pit Yakka, Sand Dancer, Mackem and Brackem in my veins even though I'm neither really.... And if you can work any of that out. Have a canny Christmas!
I'm from new Orleans and sounded good to me,thanks for the video👍
@@AdamMGTF I always told my English cousins that they got even by foisting English on the rest of us. They responded by pointing out that I was from Brooklyn...
@@ONECOUNT lol old joke here. The English invented the langue. The Americans ruined it. Total rubbish but a classic joke. I've been across the bridge. Visited NY with my collage. Amazing place
Moar Drach time... This lunch break will be longer. Oh, coffe ready... :)
Dawww, it’s so cute to hear you pronounce “New Orleans” without the American “s” at the end.
Being from the southern United States, hearing you say that we were like "guns, guns, and more guns" on our ships.... yeah, guns are a religion of their own here..... And while many may not like it, I am ok with it.
The SAN FRANCISCO was made famous as John Wayne's flag ship in Otto Preminger's film In Harm's Way.
In the movie they referred to their ship as, "Old Swayback", (an obvious reference to the USS Salt Lake City (CA-25)), which was sometimes known as "Swayback Maru" or "Old Swayback".
@Jurassic Aviator, concur re: USS ST. PAUL, but in the dialog she was referred as SAN FRANCISCO.
Good rundown on this class of cruisers, but you slighted the San Francisco. Yes she did get pounded on by Kirishima, and inadvertently pounded on the Atlanta, the action this happened in off Guadalcanal was actually the brightest moment in the stellar career of the most decorated cruiser in the US Navy during WWII. At the time of the engagement, she was the heaviest warship that the USN had in the waters around Guadalcanal, and the Japanese sent Kirishima and her sistership Hiei to bombard Henderson Field to eliminate the airgroup there. On the night of November 13, 1942, she along with escorting destroyers and the Atlanta intercepted and stopped the Japanese bombardment group and nearly sinking the Hiei. 4 Medals of Honor were awarded to her personnel, only one of which wasn't posthumous. She went on to earn a total of 17 battle stars for her service.
Portland was there too. Took a torpedo hit that caused her steering to jam and then spent most of the morning fighting the “battle of the cripples”.
Back then nobody cared about warships. But if I could wave a magic wand. I would save one of the pre-war heavy cruisers and have it as a museum ship.
Yes, I know there is USS Salem. But something about those heavy cruisers interest me more than the Baltimore/Oregon/Des Moines.
I always found the New Orleans class attrctive looking ships, maybe because it looks like a British warship with the long forecastle. One of them would have made a fine museum ship.
Another great and informative video. Thanks man.
Great video. Thanks.
Oooh. Guns, guns, guns! C'mon, Sal! The Tigers are playing tonight. I never miss a game.
Something I find interesting is not only did MINNEAPOLIS and NEW ORLEANS lose their bows in battle but surveys of the ASTORIA and QUINCY wrecks show they, too, are minus their bows. A possible design flaw??
The USS Astoria was featured in the Alternate History Novel; Weapons of Choice. While it didn't get destroyed in Savo Island, it had the misfortune of getting a time traveling 21st Century Stealth Cruiser fused into its forward 8" turret like an unfolded leatherman multitool.
It later sunk but most of the crew survived despite attempts to shoot the other ship that had basically teleported into it with it's 8" rear turret.
I'm playing WoWs now and just recently started one of the heavy cruiser lines. I'm on the Pensacola now and I'm almost done with that and continuing my way to the New Orleans.
Tusk,, the first part sounds like 'tusk' as in ivory. Great video.
My Dad was the first crew of the Minne in '34.
Yet another great review - many thanks Drak. Best wishes for the festive season.
Man I am named after died on this ship during WW2.
He was my grandfathers brother.
My grandfather served as ship's doctor on the Minneapolis from the mid-late 1930s. I think he was with her til around 1943 when he was transferred to one of the escort carriers in the Pacific.
Three guides in one day and it's not even my birthday! I've never found an answer to this one. Was there a weakness in the forward scantlings in this class? It seems like almost any torpedo hit from the bridge forward caused the bow to be blown off.
I can't answer that question. But it did make me think of the "well the front fell off by all means" sketch.
Not sure if it translates into American humour too well as it's very much a British style sketch. If you haven't seen it. Please do. It's on here and is hallerious!
Side note. Because of this joke. Behind my drift cars front bumper, on the crash beam. Is a sticker that can only be read if I nock the front bumper off. Saying "well .... The front fell off by all means".
.
End of my ramble for the night. Merry Christmas SarJim
@@AdamMGTF LOL. I've seen the "front fell off" sketch. It doesn't translate to American humor very well, but I liked it. Of course, I also liked Monty Python and Fawlty Towers, so that should tell you something. :-)
It wasn't just the older cruisers with weak bows, and it wasn't just from torpedoes. USS Pittsburgh, a Baltimore class heavy, lost its bow in a typhoon in June, 1945, although the still floating bow was rounded up by a Navy tug and towed to Guam. I've never read a complete report on the all too frequent bow failures, but it seems the extensive use of the still not well understood challenges of naval welding contributed to it. There were also problems with the speed of the work and inspections not always carried out. The same kinds of issues plagued Liberty ships, made even worse by the intramural competition for bonuses based on how fast a ship was built.
@@sarjim4381 Or it could be that the Japanese long lance torpedo was the best in the world !
@@steveb6103 Certainly is was the power of the Long Lance that played its part but, as I just pointed out, a typhoon caused the same thing.
@@sarjim4381 It seems that the loss of bows to Long Lance torpedoes was in a way a good thing as the ships remained stable and upright. I imagine a flooded bow would act as a giant lever pulling the stern out of the water. Sort of a Titanic effect. It also showed good watertight integrity given the extent of the damage. Now let me see two extra bows were built... does that make eight ships?
Dodging French shells and torpedoes... Don't you just love the snail eaters.
So thats why Nasty Asty has that skill in that game
It seems there was a plethora of ships getting their noses blown off in both world wars, even including the Belgrano during the Falklands War.
It would be nice to see some Canadian ships reviewer, both WW2 and later. Thanks.
Clarence Hemeon a corvettes' a corvette.
Seen one seen em all
*runs*
🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺😂😂😂😂👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
You want the RAN, we had #allofthetypes except carriers in ww2
The Mongoose we had a carrier actually two and two cruisers and we have the worlds last tribal class destroyer because the rest of the commonwealth broke theirs and at the end of the war had the fifth most powerful navy in the world only class we didn’t have was a battle ship but hey you guys didn’t have two carriers so I call that fair
He has done reviews of the Haida, the bonaveture, the magnificent, the Toronto, the Quebec and the flower class corvette
@@jameson1239 Thanks. I just subscribed a few weeks ago and haven't gone back thru the library yet.
My uncle Harmon was on her until the end of the war. He then sent to eod school. He tells a hilarious story, about not passing the eye test because they did too much exercise.
Good video. New Orleans in the US has an s sound at the end.
was there a project to fit 12 guns instead of 9?
maybe another class similar to it
How are the barrels in the triple turrets mounted so close together? On all other warships with triples there is a significant (at least double barrel width) gap between barrels, or like Belfast staggered positions.
These treaty cruisers all had the guns mounted in a single cradle, so they are quite properly called triple turrets. When the guns are in separate cradles (able to elevate independently) it is a three-gun turret. The single cradle probably makes it easier to mount them so close together.
Believe had very advance machinery in the turret
@@kemarisite mounting them in a single cradle saved weight as you did not need three different sets of elevation gears and was less complex.
@@HUNDLEYGUY95 that too, but the original question was focused on the spacing.
@@kemarisite That is also all relevant to that. Lacking the need for additional elevation gearing means that there is no need to space the guns as far apart to fit them. Italian cruisers took this to a extreme (with consequences) compared to even the USN Treaty Heavy Cruisers.
4:01 Need to watch out for Japanize torpedo boats!
Anyone know where that shot at about 4:08-4:15 came from? I have never seen that before, and it is excellent.
Guns Guns and Even more Guns.
What happened to USS Houston heavy cruiser
Are you going to do a human voice video of the Teghetoff class?
When will we see a Guide for the Baltimore class? :)
I would like to see the U.S.S. Oklahoma City CG5 Vietnam era. My Uncle was XO
@ 1:40 - Tuscaloosa - Tus ca LOO sa.@ 1:46 - Wichita ------ Wich i TAH.
Yes. And the "s" is not silent in U S S Vincennes ( CA-44 ). I don't think the French pronounce it like Drachinifel
How can you be "utterly decimated"? Decimate was a roman punishment for soldiers who underperformed. They would be lined up and every tenth man killed. Decimate = one in ten. Decimal = 10%. It's actually important and I'm surprised Drach got it wrong.
Boom
The trailing "s" is sounded in "New Orleans". Definitely *not* silent!!
An understandable mistake. We English can barely agree on how to pronounce most of our own place names. It varies massively based on accent. Heck. In my area there is a village who's name is pronounced coopen with a short en sound on the end. So almost cooopn as we really enunceate the oo sound in the north east (especially on the coast).
Anywhere else in the country it would no doubt be pronounced how it's spelt Cowpen or maybe cow-pen. Other parts of England would say it k-oh-pen with a k rather than a c sound and a oh rather than oo.
Proof the English language is indeed a massive muddle. Especially in England herself! Miss pronouncing a place name half a world away I hope really is forgivable.
@@AdamMGTF yes, definitely an understandable mistake. Especially when Orleans is French (which is probably why he's following the French rule of silent trailing s.)
Even worse, natives of New Orleans pronounce "Orleans" differently when saying "New Orleans" and "Orleans Parish"...
@@RonJohn63 proof the only consistent thing in language is its inconsistencies! Lol
I was going to consider the French angle. But I'd already went off on a huge tangent haha.
I love accents and the weridness of the English language. Anyone who needs an introduction to the confusing state of English accents. Just needs to hear the two accents of the two cities in England called "Newcastle". Better yet. Just hear people from both cities say the name of where they live. It's comical.
Side side note. I was checking into a hotel in New York years ago. The lady at the desk took my passport and said "oooo your English. I love the English accent" she then said "I do hope you enjoy your stay, please mention if you need a thing" in a fairly decent impression of the queen's English.
Being from the north east and with family that are Geordies (RUclips the accent lol). I couldn't pass up the opportunity. My reply was along the lines of "Aye why eye pet al be grand. Div-ya-knaw where me anwer palls can grab a bevvy. Will be gannin oot on the toon the night like, but a quicken would be reet canny".
All said in rapid fire in the way only a Geordie can.
At which point I laughed and switched back to my normal smoggie accent (very different but still nowhere near queen's English). Apologised that I couldn't give her the accent she wanted. But that she was very kind and I'd enjoy my stay I'm sure.
She was lovely. As we're all New Yorkers I met actually (I found the reputation they have was nowhere to be seen).
Anyway. About to toll midnight here. All the best from a small part of England! Merry Christmas (I think you say happy Holidays there? Either way. All the best!)
@Skodaman2 I'm not sure if that's sarcasm 🤣
The cruiser New Orleans had it's bow blown off in the Battle of Savo Island. I believe a Japanese torpedo struck the bow and ignited the aviation fuel stored there.
Not Savo, but Tassafaronga on 30 November.
Both of these battles were serious setbacks. It explains why Japan stood with a reasonable chance in a defensive posture until the Battle of the Philippine Sea. They were still mopping up Kwantung Army troops in Guadalcanal and New Guinea in 1944. Unlike Germany, they were in continuous action since China (Namohan Bridge) in 1937. Talk about a tough nut the crack. Strange enough the MO operation seemed to run simultaneously with Stalingrad at the end but with 41st and 144th regiments in addition to a 15th Independent Engineers Regiment with setbacks and all. Supply problems and lack of replacements at Ioribaiwa overlooking Imita Ridge in September 1942 were the same problems Von Paulus had to face except in a jungle warfare environment with near mountain climbing activities involved. This is over the watershed of the Owen Stanley Ranges as well. Japan's 17th Army was shacked up in what was called Nankai City in Rabaul like some sort of Pacific Taman Bridgehead. The only real difference in equilibrium with timelines is that the Spanish Civil War gave Germany a training ground for the Luftwaffe. It is very strange how things pan out sometimes.
One day we'll get a zara class video ONE DAY 😭😭
Shit.
I promised the Admiral I would not get my Bow blown off again. Paint isn't going to fix this.
*machinist mate in the background* I could make something work... the question is where to find sufficient duct tape...
[Ignoring I don't think miracle tape existed yet].
@@ShadrachVS1 Actually it not only existed - it had been specifically developed to make ammunition cans waterproof again after they had been opened. And the original brand name was: 'Duck Tape' - named for how water rolls off a duck's feathers.
The tape became wildly popular with GIs for the same reason it's popular today - you can use it for just about anything.
@@colincampbell767 huh, I was under the impression it was based off of a tape to repair duct work that failed to meet expectations and was developed in the late 1940s.
Watching a old navy video from the 30's they are referring the the New Orleans class as battle cruisers
Please remember it's devastated not decimated. They didn't lose 1 in 10.
you are not you when your undergunned here have more guns guns galore
What's with American cruisers and being a floating collection of "the front fell off" skits? Including the Belgrano!
@Nguyen Johnathan no. Cruisers did not use the "all or nothing" armor. its called being under 10,000 tons and thus little armor combined with Japanese having very fast torpedos. All the ships in that played the "bow fell off" trick were also Cruisers that got hit by Japanese Long Lance Torpedos.
@@MrChickennugget360 one USN Cruiser lost hers in a storm
@@larshenrik8900 which one?
@@MrChickennugget360 USS Pittsburgh
I like my women the way I like my belt armour: Shorter and thiccer.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition
Battle of Savo Island - an excellent example of racist assumptions (on the part of the Americans) costing lives. That said, Pearl Harbor is the example of racist assumptions on the part of the Japanese costing a war......
Could you please explain with evidence why said assumptions were racist?
Drach, your robot voice at the end of each video speaks with remarkable clarity and has loads of character. Would you mind sharing what the proper software name is, the cost and where it can be purchased? I'm quite enamoured of it.
Thanks very much,
DTV
It's the Verbose Text to Speech programme with a seperate "Daniel" voice pack :)
I hold special resentment for the "NO" (it's almost a clue, "i think i might try the..." NO!)
In wows the guns reload too slowly for HE spam, AP is very weak and everything from distance or head on ricochets (no real surprise I know) but up close where you might get a broadside citadel you'll get quickly deleted, its not stealthy and has not torps, Whenever I went out in it I felt like I was just there to be a target. Hated every single game.
I got half way through and then freeXP'd my way out of the hell into the baltimore.....which is more of the same......and the same with the buffalo, infact I also hated the pensacola, Effectively tier6-9 was a looong grind.
As great as the des moines is it does not make up for 4 tiers of hell before it. I prefer my pheonix/omaha/st louis/new mexico/wickes to it, Even the Erie has a certain charm. (and obviously my atlanta/cleveland/n.carolina/alabama/iowa/missouri/montana/salem which are mostly higher tiers). Atleast maybe there will be some good history to the ship in this video to make me hate it less?
Hay just a quick edit, Frisco shot up Atlanta, holed Heies steering room, and got gang banged by Kirishima and Half the IJN formation in the same battle not two different ones. Also I was expecting a quite technical recap of NoLa not just a wiki of the class and a recap of he stats. She was extensively damaged and analysis of the damage and AAR would have been a worthy addition.
I can quite safely say as a speaker of Southern American English, It's not pronounced New Orleens But it's pronounced new aw-lens, An it's not tooscaloosa its Tuscaloosa Tusk-a-loo-sa
It's New Orleans with an "s". It's never without the S.
New Orleans = singular
New Orleans' = plural
Yeah, where do you live? New Yorks?
So there is a mobile game and anime show called Azur Lane. It will either make you laugh or cry. However, I do suggest giving it a try just for the giggles.