holy fuck this dan guy is the biggest hypocrite and dumbass iv seen on ur show destiny how could u even tolerate the bullshit out of his mouth. Im 30 min in and dan has spent 30 minutes justifying getting free labour bc "capitalism determines worth and therefore their worth is 0 dollars bc no other record label gave them a better deal, but then he goes on to say when aba finally gets the words out "it doesnt matter whether its the best deal or not bc if you are providing value to your boss you deserve to be compensated BASED ON THE AMOUNT YOU ARE MAKING FOR THEM BECAUSE THATS HOW FUCKING CAPITALISM WORKS" you would think dan would agree bc what aba has just said there is an artists worth should be determined by the market and if they made their bosses alot of money bc the market likes them that means they are worth alot. BUT NO dan the fucking soyboi goes on to contradict EVERYTHING HE SAID by saying "nope doesnt matter bc singing shouldnt be worth more than any other job" like bro thats not how capitalism works way to prove ur the biggest fucktard in the world bc unironically what dan is saying here is evil. Either that or he genuinely is so unselfaware he shouldnt be allowed to speak in public. Unreal
music labels are exploitative just like every single other industry. I hate how Kanye says Jewish people are the only ones doing the deals. I wouldn't be surprised if Diddy (Bad Boy Records) a black man is single handily responsible for more fucked deals then any other music executive. its a high margin industry with high net worth induvials of course there is going to be a fuck ton of lobbying for exploitative laws its not a Jewish thing its a capitalism thing. its not like the methods kayne is describing to fuck people over is Jewish exclusive diddy took the laws to extremes that would make the Jewish executives cream.
"I don't even know what a 360 deal is but I disagree." Sums up this whole talk. Not to mention he hasn't even seen the kanye west interview and has a strong opinion.
I don't think that's the point. I think the main thing Dan is saying is: When you're offered a deal with all the information about how it will work and you accept it (and the deal itself is legal) then it's on you that you accepted it and you shouldn't complain.
@@jajohnek Yeah but to be fair, we know that that's not how the deals are presented... we have so many testimonials by artists themselves explaining they didn't know what they were signing, and more so to Aba's point, even then there are methods and tricks some labels use to steal or hide or garner profits from the talent that they shouldn't be. Exploiting their ignorance and lack of education and experience in order to squeeze as much out of them as possible.
Seriously. He actually believes that a person is not entitled compensation for their labor. Immortal Technique said it really well when he said, "You mean I have to go to the store, buy the food, and cook it, but I can't sit down and eat with you? What the fuck is that?"
With his examples, farms back then weren't exploitive because they needed slaves to make a profit on a competitive market and it was the "best deal" those slaves had. "Companies need to do x or y to make a profit and that's why it's not exploitation". Then figure something else out. They always talk about competition and the free market will sort itself out but actually lobby and make laws or gatekeep any change or competition to stay alive.
@@Jiminycricket95 That is a bit extreme. Only other similarity is Harvey Weinstein. If you wanted to be an actress, you have to deal with his predatory shit and not much else you can do about or your career is over in a second. Exploitation even if the women agree to those terms.
I’ve never heard someone, like Dan, that absolutely doubles down on being right without actually knowing anything about contracts or the music business.
@@cozykarma1542 I grew up in the 90s and I've always listened to underground rap, so basically all my favorite music is from people who couldn't get major label deals lol still went with Dan in the first half
I think he means well even though he supports some of the shittier practices of some clauses but at the very he didn't come off as a smug asshole like other debaters.
The issue is no reasonable person would imagine how evil the music industry is. To be honest a lot of these deals probably should have been thrown out as unconscionable but who wants to bring your label to court even if you win your career will probably be over by the time you get on the other side of the legal case
That’s not his only argument. It’s not exploitation when a label takes a chance on an unknown artist. How many failed artists did they invest in and lose money on? Was the label being exploited by the failed artist that they lost money on?
Except for the part where he talks about the importance of a minimum wage, and explains how the things that the labels are taking from the artists, only exist because the label invested in them to begin with.
Kudo to Dan who was able to drag the discussion wherever he wanted despite being a lost cause. Aba following him putting himself and they ended up debating capitalism. Fail. A certain group of people do act like freemanson association, you don't need a formal conspiracy, they were able to take a relevant part of money, laws and media, basically the things that matter the most when you want to control a country.
Aba is completely right. There is literally no music expert, influencer, or executive that would say it was easier to get a record deal in the 90s. Dan just googled how many companies there were and thought it was a fire rebuttal 😂😂😂
@@themange59 This is completely untrue. I’m in my 30s, I was there. There were far more TLC deals. Beck’s deal was incredibly unusual and rare, there were writeups about it. I’ll never understand what people get out of typing complete bullshit in a comment section, but…I hope you got whatever you wanted out of it? 😂
Well yeah, when the point is "there's no competition so the deals are worse" and "the deals were worse in the past", but there was more competition in the past. What Dan googled is a defeater. Try to keep up.
In his bit he mostly complains about signing a contract as an employee of comedy central and then comedy central owning the rights to his work. You know ... like it's the case with every other employee on the planet. If a programmer or engineer complained that he doesn't own the things he designed as an employee of a company and demand they stop using them, everybody would call him crazy. Let alone a regular worker. But because he's a multi millionair, it's monstrous that he signed a bad deal and didn't get 50 million, >because he broke the contract
@@wolfvonversweber1109 wrong. His original deal was for a percentage of profit. They said that he made so much money that it made the original contract invalid. They than came up with the arbitrary number of 50 million Katt Williams talks about it. Yeah but I know research
This argument that 'they didnt know who was going to blow up' is brain-dead. Up until very recently, labels controlled the entire supply chain: they controlled studios, engineers/producers, DJs, and the distribution. These people were experts at finding beautiful, semi-talented people, and blowing them up. Success was 100% manufactured. They didn't call it the music _industry_ for nothing.
That’s half true. But they don’t control what’s popular fully. Radio and tv did. Not only that but audiences might not like you. That’s why one hit wonders exist. That’s why super popular bands exist. They don’t know who will be like the Beatles or Kanye or Jay z or drake. They don’t know. They know people are talented but they don’t know what will explode. They have given shows good time slots that have gotten great reviews and got cancled after one season cuz audiences didn’t watch. So this is simply small Brained. Success is partly manufactured but it isn’t fully manufactured.
Maybe its bc when people look back on the music industry, they only remember the greats but there was ABSOLUTELY a long list of artists who flopped or were one hit wonders well into the 90s. Talent =\= high ROI if that talent gets hooked on drugs or decides to never work on another album again bc reasons. You’re stuck with a worthless investment. Believe it or not, even Jewish people looking for investment capital were denied access by other Jewish investors if they had nothing to offer:
@@conradkorbol indeed they didn't control it. But they definitely could predict it depending on what the trend was. They make an investment with research tailored into whatever the hype is. But they won't take on a risk if there's nothing going on for it currently or in the future
Whoever is debating Aba about the record industry and its inner workings has no idea what hes talking about and it pisses me off to no end. I hate when people argue tooth an nail on something they're so ignorant about.
@V O Yep. The record industry has a setup where its nearly impossible for the Labels to lose and they DO collude. Russell Simmons who co founded Def Jam. One of the biggest hiphop labels ever has even said that when he first started he was invited by his mentor who was a label exec to a wedding in hawaii and he was shocked to see that all the other label heads were in attendance. He thought everyone was competing and trying to kill off the competition which is how Dan THINKS it works in his utopian ultra free market capitalist view of the music industry. But it doesn't. Russ Simmons said the head of Sony, Atlantic, Warner etc were all attending the wedding of this record exec. Which tells you that they all work together to maintain a status quo in the music business!. Thats why im annoyed at this guy debating Aba when he has little to zero knowledge on the subject. Its so cringe.
@@unclebobboomergames to play the advocate he could be referring to the fact that he's only arguing solely on the bssis that his Jewish heritage is being attack
@@momofleecy5743 yeah but in that case ive seen every demographic under the sun do it. As of late white people especially. If were just talking defensiveness sure. But aside from the stereotype of it its no different than anything else
Dan literally is the embodiment of speaking without know what the hell he is talking about. Now I gotta question who Destiny surrounds himself with lol. I just lost brain cells listening to this debate.
The fuck are you spouting about, Dan's argument was ground solid. If you can't understand that, it fine, I can help you, for monetary compensation of course
@@domiro5295 yeah Dan's argument was solid if you're in favor of exploitation 🤣 which you leftists are supposed to be against 🤣 but I guess it's okay when a Jew does it 🤣 and it's not ok when Europenas did it to Native Americans 🤣
As someone who’s a aba/destiny fan and this is my first introduction to Dan, yes he seems quite ignorant and narcissistic lol. Btw I’m a professional musician
and he was trying to push back against the jewish stereotype. and ended making excuses foe some of the most exploitative stuff that jewish people in power do. i would like to see him defend predatory loans too
It's more impresside how he dragged the discussion into debating capitalism... "it's because it's risky", well if it's risky you need capital, something like, I don't know, having access to a friendly bank... and who is extremely overrepresented in the financial system. Aba wasn't able to take an easy win, but he ended up debating exploitation which wasn't even the point of the discussion.
Dan has never been more aggressively wrong Also these labels don’t “spend” or “invest” money into their artists. They give them loans - advances - that they have to pay back to the label. These successful artists end up tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to where they HAVE to blow up otherwise they’re screwed. Dan would have benefited from a little humility and seeking to understand as opposed to being obnoxiously skeptical.
Yes you just described investing in a high risk industry. The stakes are massive so dont mix your dreams with reality and stay the fuck away from loans for risky investments if you want to stay out of debt, why is this so hard for people to grasp? Its the same amount of sympathy i have for gamblers with huge debts. They weighed their risks/rewards, took the chance and lost. Thats life.
@@computer_janitor Monopolistic cartels of any sorts are antithetical to a competitive market system, which is what most free market advocates (including myself) argue for. Thats why i’m just as against corporate monopsonies as I am about labor cartels like unions. Anything that limits competition is detrimental to everyone, but that doesn’t make the practice of limiting your risk via securing future compensation is amoral or wrong. The record label industry is too cut throat and out to get the upper hand over their competitors to be able to collude to the level youre implying.
Do you not understand what investing is? It's not a charity... Using the most basic understanding, an investor gives you money and the reason is hopefully you make enough money to pay it back with interest, just like a loan. That's literally investing...
He's wrong in so many ways its unreal. As if marketing an artist entitles a label to free labor, ownership of master recordings, tour revenue, merchandise, likeness, etc. And that such an agreement would not be exploitative. Fuck outta here
@@powbong7735 that's true but the way Dan presented it was that the unsuccessful acts were just a loss when they were still, in fact, legally liable to pay back the advance with interest meaning even if they lose they won
From what I understand, the labels don’t sign artists for a specific amount of years, they sign them for a certain number of projects. You’re on the label until you meet the quota. That’s where the issues come in, say you’re signed to a 4 album contract and your second album doesn’t do well. The label can then decide to “shelf” you and not release any more projects because they don’t think you have the ability to sell albums. Unless they decide to drop them, artists can find themselves stuck in contracts, it’s happened to plenty of artists. Another example is what happened to NBA Youngboy. He had to produce a certain amount of albums, he released a bunch of projects then the label turned around and said he still owed them more albums because they only counted some of those projects as albums.
When the mob ran the industry in the 90’s record label contracts were done in years. It has transitioned to legitimate record labels but Universal Music Group(Kanye’s previous label) still holds 1/3 market share and it was founded on mobster money via MCA iirc
That’s a part of it. often times labels work off of advances. so say we give nba young boy an advance of $1,000,000. In the contract that advance is to pay back the money put into you. That money goes to producers,distribution, marketing n all that. let’s say his album does $3,000,000. now i give him a $10 million advance. now he owes me $7 million n 2 more albums, not mixtapes. the smart artists stop taking the advances n basically do more shit themselves till they can go independent. the label makes 80% of the stream bro. you make zilch
@@justnamedjames7064 But Prince described how despite him not taking advances since his third album he was still stuck in his contracts several albums and decades later
@@libertas_americana I love the Jews but people like Dan make that such a tall order. Like, just allow yourselves to be treated like every other group. It's not that hard. I thought jews were progressive and supported equal & fair treatment for all. I guess they are, up until they're held accountable for their actions. It's admittedly not very different to how other groups may act, but they're the ones with disproportionate power in our society.
And there's the rub. Jews cannot be the victim even when they're the ones doing the exploitation and victimization. That narrative shouldn't be spun. It only provides cannon fodder for anti-semites.
The idea that you offering someone the best deal they can get inherently makes it non exploitative is objectively wrong. It is the very basis of exploitation. I cant believe Dan made this argument. Its disgusting to think you cant be exploiting someone if its a deal they cant refuse. Edit: For the record i'm not anti-capitalist, i believe competition especially in something like a marketplace is vastly powerful and an important tool for civilization. I DO however believe powerful tools like capitalism need to be used carefully and with guided restriction or we end up with this kind of gross sociopathic ideology.
sounds a lot like the coporations that try to justify having kids working in sweat shops. like theres a reason why those ppl feel they should endure those types of conditions. its bc they know its a job that'll pay better than MOST in their area. its the "best option". but NO ONE in their right mind would actually try to argue that something like that isnt exploitative 😂 other than dan and big corps i guess
What Dan is struggling to comprehend is that capitalism itself IS EXPLOITATIVE. He also completely ignores that capitalism creates monopolies, and encourages price fixing as well as many other unsavoury strategies. Regulation (band aids) which seek to disincentivise this behaviour is the only reason it hasn’t collapsed. But operating on the margins to give yourself an edge, while riding the line of legality has been the modus operandi since it’s inception.
Yeah his argument is terrible. It was the best deal they could get bc there was no other option and the people who control all the deals have a monopoly on the market
Still going through the video, but I imagine Dan's hangup is that he looks at it like a lot of the those labels did - there is a high risk(specifically more with certain ethnicities or genders), so they likely offer what they think they can at some sort of competitive pricing. They may or may not be intentionally exploitative at the start. The problem is that even with best of intentions, the exploitation of their artists occurs later down the line. At minimum they should renegotiate the contract to improve their client's cut of future profits and/or even pay them back a bigger cut of prior earned revenue when things are up.
dan immediately tossing the $4/hr for an illegal immigrant example and then refusing to talk about college football was pretty telling dan: but faaaammee
Yeah the football argument was fucking retarded from Aba. How things are are highly related to if the market is highly regulated(football) or as free as possible (music). If only exploitative contracts are allowed the best will of course be exploitative. If non exploitative contracts are allowed you will get them and then the best can't be exploitative.
Honestly it was refreshing considering it didn't devolve into cringe spergouts like it normally does. I also learned a few things I didn't know about the music industry.
They managed to be both wrong, the ones extremely overrepresented in media, finance, and position of power, and black people overrepsented in criminal statistics it's not "just a perception", we already know the reasons, and it's not about "social class" and they both try to say. They are both defending their groups. The truth is maky baby steps, I guess. Anyway they ended up talking about capitalism for 95% of the time, that Dan is really good a wriggle out from a losing position.
@@RenetteDescartess69 Bro idk if its your sentence structuring but im struggling to completely understand what your trying to say. Why are they both wrong? And what are the reasons that we already know?
@@101Neondude they are not both wrong because Dan himself said here that Jewish people are over represented in media, finance and other positions of power. He said he hates when he has to do a deal with another Jewish person because he knows he’s getting raked. Which only supports stereotypes that I can’t say because I’m not Jewish. Dan basically said it’s the business model that causes the blatant extortion from the one artist who blows up to supplement all the artists that didn’t. He refused to admit these media companies wrote things into contracts to give themselves most of the benefits and revenue streams because they were greedy rather than just to offset costs. He wanted to pretend aba was asking for 50-90 percent rather than just a fair percentage. Dan wanted to say the fame was worth the trade, refusing to acknowledge all work done under contract gets stripped away from artist if they ever do exercise any options they may have and that non competes completely stop that person from using said fame for their benefit in 99 percent of cases. He wanted to say the market would correct for it but failed to connect that there is no free market when you’re under a long term contract and a non compete clause that would keep people who have no idea before they sign as a broke kid that they can’t really get out of that contract that no matter how famous they get they are still struggling financially while everyone around them are swimming in wealth. Kinda like fighter pay right now honestly. Back in the day the options available now didn’t exist. I think the main take away here is people have their Jewish conspiracies because Jewish people do own the banks and they do run the media and they are tied into governments around the world. Ofcourse people will see that they have a lot of power and influence to be not so big of a group of people since they control the world’s financial and entertainment systems. The greed stuff is stereotypes but because of what has happened to them over the times then everyone is very touchy about talking about their power in the world and call anything bad said about them as antisemitism because instead of pointing out individuals people point out the religion itself. Aba was not wrong at all in my opinion
HOLY SHIT DAN, it’s not the artist’s problem that the label has spent millions on other artists!!! They shouldn’t have to subsidize those entire investments. Literally everything Dan is saying supports Aba’s point.
Guess its okay for the artist to exploit record labels not the other way around. Basically saying its okay to bankrupt labels as long as the artist is happy.
@@lampad4549 well a record company at least started of rich and the people running it have a high education so at this point there kinda making dumb decisions. Also let's not act like a record company just gives out money to anyone that can sing usually there are ways to prove someone is more likely to succeed. Even if they failed a record company could have given there money out as a loan so those failing singers/rappers would have to pay back the money. Usually record companies don't shut down simply by giving to much money to failed artist lol.
Record labels aren't charities. If labels couldn't turn a profit on average by making lots of money on the few successes, they wouldn't invest in anybody, because they might as well burn their money. It's amazing how many people here are economically illiterate. If you're investing in something with 50% change of loss, you demand double your money plus interest in return, otherwise you are going bankrupt and hurting yourself. If there's only a one percent chance of success, you need one hundred times your investment back. If the artists think that's unfair and labels should act like charities by taking losses from 99% and let the 1% have their successes for themselves, they are free to try on their own.
Except aba's point didn't focus on them being Jewish, he even said whatever the religion of the people signing artists to the 360 deals, he believed they were being exploitive.
That record label convo gave me a headache. Dan is trying to make it sound like labels are giving 1000 people chances in hopes 1 or 2 make it so they can fuck them over. That way they can turn a profit even after losing on the 998 others. But labels don’t sign/give that many people a chance. Most record labels have a small amount of artist signed. And most artist are all profitable because they got signed.
They have to sign a certain ratio of failures compared to success that they make more money they are spending or there wouldnt be people running record labels. But yea its a dead industry model because people can get the same success without needing the investment they did back in the day.
I will say, labels do invest a ton into artists. And the notoriety that artists build through those investments/marketing does allow them to make a ton of money in future transactions. I think sometimes artists complain about their deals with labels and don't give enough credit to the things labels did do for them. However, overall, Aba is correct. There was def a tendency to sign artists to exploitative deals in the 90s. W/o having like a study/stats, it does also seem like that tendency influenced R&B/HIp-Hop disproportionately.
@@mikegribanov6105 I think the main exploitative part is that the signing talent don't fully know and understand the ramifications of what they are signing. Given that they did understand the contract fully, I agree with Dan that it's not exploitative.
I worked in music for a long time and Aba is 100% correct. Never heard more true words. Dan does net deserve to speak on the music industry ever. He has no knowledge of and experience in the field.
I just wanna say about the TLC situation specifically they were in their early twenties (like 20-21) when they signed their contracts. The company that they were signed to La Face records took majority of their profits and the profits they did get got deducted based on needs the group had(Like food, clothes, etc) that the label provided and the group had no idea that was happening at the time. TLC was being lied to and screwed over for years. And the music that they made performed very well after they left. Their is a specific interview the girls made explaining this.
Yep. It’s so crazy this guy is talking so confidently when he doesn’t even understand how record contracts work. Lmao My guy openly admitted he has no idea what a 360 deal is but it’s probably not exploitative. 🤣 He comes off like he’s someone that would pull off one of these grimey deals
Laface records was formed by two black people and they had a black manager.. Aba brought this up because Jews are over represented in management lmao. Pretty ignorant. They’re worth multimillions now they’ll be okay
I love how the talk went from “Are there Jews at the top of these industries?” to “Well it was the best deal these Jewish producers can give to these poor black artists” real fast. Yeah push those goal posts back in the name Israel! Lol
What are you talking about? It’s not moving the goal post the shot had already been scored in the first two minutes. The conversation had simply changed.
Dan holy shit man wtf 😂 the biggest issue Dans argument has is that none of these labels were upfront or honest with what they were (or weren’t) giving to these people. Most of the time people would just come in and get told a bunch of blatant lies after they get supplied with a lawyer that WORKS FOR THE LABEL and advocates that the label is actually going to take care of them. Then a year later they realize they made a HUGE mistake but it’s too late, these contracts were made specifically to keep the successful people locked in for as long as possible with minimal compensation. Minorities were the specific demographic that was fucked over more than not because of their lack of financial literacy, the fact most of these people never had a half decent come up and LABELS KNEW THIS. It was like taking candy from disabled babies.
Destiny actually got at the crux of the debate here: Dan literally does think that if “the best” an illegal immigrant could get was $4 an hour, that by definition, it then isn’t “exploitative.” And he’s completely and utterly wrong 😂😂😂
but this all comes down to more than just is it the best, idk why everyone in this conversation is acting like the only option is a shitty contract, if you don't like the contract because you think it will fuck you later, then you can just get a different job, go down a different career path it's so stupid acting like that isn't an option
@@NovaTheVERmin “Nothing is ever exploitative because you can always just get another job”, I promise, is not the big brain take you probably think it is.
Dan sounds like a Jew that would happily exploit you lmao capitalism means it wasn’t exploitive Dan thinks capitalism is a perfect system and the free market always works lol it’s simple if me and a group of people want to take over the music industry especially if me and the group of people happen to not be that big of a group happened to all Share an ethnic background making cooperation more likely it wouldn’t be that hard to get together and decide to give nobody a deal better than certain percentages that way we never undercut each other and we share this whole pie it’s really a simple concept and the guy acting like he can’t understand how people could be exploited is beyond me if you take a bunch of poor people that have been poor and under educated for generations it’s not gonna be hard to exploit them want to re-capitalist system with her it was technically their choice to sign the contract or not it’s common sense
Its like he didnt understand that the library(or the state) bought a license to lend out whatever books/dvds they have. Its not like they went down to the local Barnes and Nobles. Bought a book then put it on the shelf.
Actually, public and private libraries *can* buy a book at normal price and distribute it. Books have a First Sale Doctrine, so that’s totally legal. But for eBooks and digital media, they have to license it as you describe.
he got caught up in the jewish thing and ended up personifying the evil jew stereotype to a tee. he made himself sound like if slavery was legal he would do it because "the masters spend a lot of money feeding them"
The ”best deal available” argument is so dumb because that’s literally how exploitation always starts. A person has no better options and therefore can be taken advantage of.
That’s exactly what he’s saying, he knows if the labels told TLC that they would financially would be in the same exact position if not worse if they agree to take their shitty exploitive record deal. They wouldn’t because nobody would be willing sign up for that.
Dan defending record labels was pretty shite, I usually like the guy but anyone and everyone who is even close to the industry would say it's exploitative. He says they're risking their money for these guys but these artists are putting everything down on the line and actually doing the work which Dan dismisses a little too easily. Record labels have done many evil fuckin things. He's arguing as if it's still the beginning of record labels and it's just a Jewish guy or 2 trying his best. Like they're enormous conglomerates that make investments like venture capital investment groups and are already making huge profits. I don't feel a shred of guilt if one of their projects doesn't pay off Was sleeping with Weinstein not exploitative because it was 'their best option'?? Well I'm glad Dan admitted to not knowing much about the industry. He was making sound arguments for an eco class with somewhat related examples, but the entertainment industry is much more personal and subjective. Yes the economics matter ofc, but people got exploited deal to deal depending if they had an agent or not, amongst other shit. It's just not the same
Dan really needs to look into a couple of decently known bands, The Rolling Stones and The Beatles who had the same manager that fucked both of them over and took a lot of their money. Labels are that times 1000 A company is not the same as an artist. A company could last centuries potentially. The artist may make 1 or 2 albums , or a single hit song and that's it. And with many of these deals they could receive nearly nothing from their media. Just look at all these old bands playing shows again
I don’t know, it feels like we expect celebrities to be unbelievably wealthy, and we cry a load when they’re not. Seems pretty lame to me, because these people are not suffering. If you made it after signing a record deal, you’re not exactly struggling. Seems like it’s being blown out of proportion to be honest. But hey, celebrities get all the pity (even Taylor swift, who’s rich beyond reason) because their fans love them. If I produce a piece of code in a tech company as an employee and I submit that to their code base, I can’t just leave and take that section of code with me; why aren’t you people going crazy about that? Probably because, for whatever reason, it’s pretty reasonable when it’s not applied to an artist. Not really sure how I feel about this one, regardless of what my conclusion will be this will never be an issue I care much about.
@@matsab7930 this isn't about celebrities really, this is about artists who got fucked out of a lot of money because they had no financial literacy. I mentioned the Rolling Stones and The Beatles getting fucked because they're huge now and since, but they didn't make even close to what they should have earned at the time. Imagine smaller artists who don't make it and don't continue, and have no rights to their products. I see your code line of reasoning, but implementation of code can be easily quantifiable and pretty much objectively judged. Music and art cannot be. And even if one still contends the code is that unique, I don't agree coders and engineers are treated right either to begin with, despite how much money they seem to make. Think about Steph Curry, he's paid a tremendous amount, but if you compared it to the value he added to the Warriors he should be getting paid more, WAY more. It's not about how good your sitting it's what you deserve vs the guy who threw money at you. Just please read into the music industry and how so many artists you might even listen to today got fucked and barely have a livelihood. Minus Beck cause he's awesome and got a ton of money
Problem I see is Aba is arguing the deal was unethical, and Dan is arguing it from a cold logic/capital standpoint. Dan isn't wrong in saying it's the best deal they had available and they entered it willingly, but it does nothing to actually refute Aba's point about ethics and exploitation.
@@Goulash45 his argument is far from sound. He exaggerated how thin the margins are for record labels. They don’t put all their hope into 1/100 people making it. They can afford to compensate their highest performers without going broke Also his argument that they agreed to a contract so it’s not exploitation is not valid. If someone targets legal illiterate people and give them crappy contracts cos they don’t know better that’s textbook exploitation
@@brooks4365 They pay their highest performers what they agreed to in a contract. They don’t pick and choose what to pay them based on their numbers after the contract is in effect, unless that’s a condition of the contract that everyone agreed to.
Dan’s whole life, down to his occupation and race, is proving Kayne right. But to Dan, exploiting black people is fine. “They’re making them famous!” Lol
@@donaldmack2307 Either do what the slaver say's or die! Yeah, seems like the slaves had a real choice in their situation, either do what they're told or die. I also like how you say, "or don't". Oh yeah, yeah little slave, just don't do what the slaver is telling you to! You can just not do what he's demanding of you, duh!
@@donaldmack2307 Donald…you are a fucking moron. I normally try to be more civil in YT comments but there’s really no way for me to do that here. lmao @ “a very very hard and difficult choice but still a choice.” Seriously - go fuck yourself.
This defense of exploitation, for the sake of defending high risk investment, was disgusting. Lost respect for Dan. If you have to exploit 1 successful investment, to pay for the other 99 dumb investments you made, then your business model is brainless, and you deserve to personally take on that risk, not the people you exploit.
Except Dan... Do you think that TLC seriously had no other record labels to sign to? Or do you think that either a.) They signed the first due to naivety (thus taking advantage of them) or b.) They weren't financially literate enough to know they were getting fked or..... c.) Only one label offered (or would) TLC a contract? Dan was a total brainlet here.
@@aClownBaby- In America? Nah you don't. Aba is correct... You don't learn it in school, and if your parents don't teach you, you're a fish out of water.
@@austinl5158 That is seriously so fucked if that’s true. You don’t get mandatory economics first 2/3 years of high school? At least 1 year, they should absolutely put that in place
Dan's argument is on why it's technically legal/moral. "We gave you a shot when no one did and no one willl. These artists are adults and should know what they're doing." When there is a reason that all big artists now advocate younger artists to get lawyers and how to navigate the business. They didn't always put it in such simple terms.
dan seems like the kinda of guy who would be like 3rd world sweat shops in asia area alright because they offer the best pay relative to whatever else is available in their area lol
@@ucheobiekwe2287 sweatshops are a small sacrifice for building wealth and getting rid of poverty. The alternative is child labour on subsistive farming.
I mean Dan's argument about risk makes sense. However, that doesn't really explain why artists continue to get fucked after they have proved their worth.
The key problem in the music industry was the fact that distribution companies engaged in anti-trust practices. They shut out competition by threatening retailers. For example, they would approach Tower Records and others, "if you stock this independent artist or record label, we'll refuse to sell to you these 80 artists that we service".
Dan doing the best deflecting he can. Edit: The longer this goes on, the more Dan sounds like Calvin Candy watching a mandingo fight from Django Unchained.
Dan’s acting like all 60 record labels would be interested and offering deals to new artists. What if only one label thought you might have potential? You don’t just get to shop for labels as a new artist. You only get the offers you get.
@@eddieisfiction442 Oh absolutely, I imagine it's similar to publishing (I have experience in that industry). A lot of imprints, but all owned by a "Big 4," which used to be a Big 7, then a Big 6, etc.
It is also important to realise that a lot of these artists are young people who come from low income families. Many of them were just desperate for an opportunity so they’d sign anything. And I don’t know the technicalities of it but there is a thing in the music industry where a label can own the name that you make music under. As a result, nothing can be released without the label’s approval. That’s actually happening to an up-and-coming artist that I like right now. Someone bought his name and he hasn’t been able to release any music for about a year now. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s why Prince changed his name. He wanted to release more music than the label would allow, so he released music under a new name
The one thing not really made clear is that these deals are deceptive. The artist thinks they will make money and on paper, it looks like they will. However, the record labels 'lie' and claim extra costs resulting in the artist getting nothing. The artist is taken advantage of by industry veterans who know how to give false impressions so the signer and possibly their legal team do not know what they are really signing.
‘If it’s the best deal you can get, it’s not exploitative’ - ‘singing isn’t worth more than carrying cinderblocks so why would I pay more than minimum wage’ , the thought process behind the type of people who propagate this exploitive behaviour is scary. This is how *they* think. As we continue to go more down this rabbit whole publicly, it will become more apparent that *they* are at the top and happy to exploit people for their own means
These conversations have been happening for a long time. But it's more like after a decade of Black Lives Matter stuff, people are actually hearing black people's grievances with Jewish people for the first time and their minds are blown. Progressives always thought they could kind of neatly sweep inter-minority conflicts under the rug.
Dan's need to jump to the defense of shady business practices seems to be coming from an instinctive place, particularly in light of how little he's thought through his own argument.
Glad to see everyone call out Dan. He argues so poorly. Keeps rephrasing to macro when he’s beat in the specifics, and literally gets walked down every argument only to rephrase and shift at the end when he’s wrong
I liked the part where dan looked up a Wikipedia list of record labels It feels like i could use Dan's arguments to justify owning a slave as long as im nicer to him than the other slavers "Its okay young Tnetnba, im not exploiting you because I only give you two lashes for speaking out of turn. Anywhere else you'd be looking at 5"
i liked the part where aba brought up tlc as an example of jews screwing over black people when tlc actually signed to black managers all this talk about the black community needing to hold itself accountable and stop playing the victim went out the window quick
@@wolfvonversweber1109 yeah fair enough. Its not a 1-to-1, but im also just trying to be funny and point out the complete absurdity of that particular defence dan used. Its a hyperbolic comparison that obviously isnt 100% accurate, but don't act like it makes 0 sense
Dan talking about how "I own that song. You don't 'get to come back 10 years later and want to use that. I bought it". Dan is the prime example of someone who doesn't understand the arts industry. Visual Arts is a prime example. If you go out today and pay an illustrator to draw you a book cover, if you think that you now own that art you are in for a big surprise. An artist retains all copyright over their own work and under normal circumstance they get paid to license out the rights for use (a lot of small time artists just trying to do 20 buck commissions is different, they sign it all away 99% of the time). Visual artists however have their own batch of predators where "I'll pay you in exposure!". But that's an entirely different rats nest. Record labels however strip all rights away from a music artist so they have no ownership, often no rights to what is even IN their songs, among god knows how many other sketchy practices. They own your image. They own you. Often people are so desperate to "make it big" they sign without realizing what it truly entails. There is a reason people call it "signing your soul away". All Dan would have to do is google a handful of links on "Record label bad" and he could see how different it is from "normal capitalism".
I don't know a lot about art contracts, but the contracts I've signed have had different levels of ownership. I had the options of signing over exclusive rights of my product, commercial rights, a mix of both etc. If you just compensate someone for a picture without a contract I think that's very different from a written contract of ownership rights. Having the proprietary right of something while contracting commercial rights of it, you are correct. However I am almost certain you can sign over all of those rights in a contract, kinda how the Nike swoosh was bought and owned for only $35.
@@LiiRAE. You most certainly CAN sign it away and someone can definitely buy it. The main point is Dans claim that "I bought it, I own it" isn't the case with a lot of art. Just because you put money behind the creation of a piece of art doesn't mean you own squat. People pay artists commissions to create a piece of art, then purchase the rights to use it for their projects unless they pay a much larger sum (when dealing with professional artists once again). The record labels however force artists to sign predatory contracts that fork over the rights to everything an artist makes, or will make in a lot of cases without the proper compensation or rights. Most young artists don't know any better so they get screwed over.
"it can't stop you from working and using your name." True, however, it also means that you can be sued and have everything taken from you because you signed away your likeness for x amount of time
Dans argument falls apart when you look at all of the viral sensations that are working normal jobs now. Having people know your name means literally nothing if you can’t monetize it in anyway.
Dan is talking about the music industry like he watched a 2 hour lecture a Gen Z student had to do for public speaking class and their topic was "Why the Music Industry Isn't Exploitative"
It’s not about Jewish people… it’s about the people who are bad. There are bad Black people, bad Muslims, bad Mexicans etc. It’s about your actions and not your ethnicity. The holocaust also didn’t just happen in Germany it happened in most European countries as well as in African and Asian countries.. Most Americans I talk with don’t even know this.
Dan is so disingenuous never won. These companies are not commissioning art artist come to them with their art already done you can’t just walk into a studios and say I want to be the next famous person and I say sure you have to already have talent already have your music already finished
Well, they come with a demo right? And then the company provides studio time, engineering, production, and distribution. And then they find out if all that was worth it. So the risk/reward element is still there.
15:58 whoever this is knows absolutely NOTHING about the music industry. Everything he said is completely wrong and it's just a horrible argument. The whole 3 labels thing is wrong, they've just monopolized the game, they have a lot of sub labels. For example, Motown is one of MANY record labels that universal owns. Second, even though there weren't REALLY more labels back then, to talk like getting a record deal was like getting a record deal was as easy as getting a subway sandwich is LUDICROUS. I could give plenty of reasons why I'll condense it to, you were EXTREMELY less likely to get a deal if you didn't LIVE in new York or LA back then (especially if you weren't in another major music city like Houston, Nashville, etc) & labels were really shooting in the dark as far as getting talent. A lot of the artists you see from the 90s and back are LUCKY. Just because one label is talking to you, that doesn't mean there is a bidding war or that you'll ever get another offer, that's FOOLISH to think ESPECIALLY for the old music industry. To give you context, look at the wutang series and see what RZA had to do to get discovered and being IN NEW YORK was more than half the battle. You can also watch a Madonna biopic and guess what, SHE WAS IN NEW YORK TO... Temptations, Jackson 5, Cadillac records, etc. It's always been competitive to get a record deal and unlike NOW, there was more luck involved. And I hate to drag it but as far as now, you can be a national recording artist independent of a label. Only people who had that type of leverage back then were guys like mc hammer and master p because they took over major city regions independently out of their trunk and not only got LUCKY, but had proof that they can generate profits.
Dan is usually not this dumb. TLC and thousands of other artists got completely fucked, yeah they were famous but all of their music they wrote they didn't own, they made no money from record sales or touring and a lot of the times the labels owned their actual name so even if their fame could have led to some money made after the labels would still get a substantial portion of that as well.
What Dan doesn’t know is that record labels don’t invest in nobodies! You need to have a buzz or song already going around locally, especially today you need at least 100k followers on socials to even get a email response
FR. The scariest part IMO is he had know idea what he was talking about and they agreed with him anyway. When he said "if they (record labels) take a cut", I knew he tripping. Even Destiny's assumption that they were talking about the music industries exploitation prior to civil right was wild funny 🤣. Good on Aba for hanging in there.
Unpaid internships aren't just bad because a kid is getting unpaid for doing work, it's because it really blocks people from poor backgrounds from participating. If you take an unpaid internship, you realistically need some family or someone else to fund your basic needs outside of that. If you don't have that then tough shit, it's more urgent to get a job that pays, even if it's minimum wage and doesn't lead to anything better down the line.
Man, 30 Seconds to Mars is a great example Aba could have used. If Leto hadn't had acting money that band would be in debt. Their label tried to rail them AFTER their success. Also, The Marvelous 3 was a band fronted by the legendary Butch Walker. They had the most played song on radio in 1999. They built success on their own and were signed by Electra with an already existing self made album ... They toured etc, then Electra paid for an amazing sophomore album BUT didn't even promote it. Just focused on Missy Eliot instead (no hate to Missy of course). Butch and his band mates were left fading out so they broke up as a FU to the label. Butch went on to do a very successful solo career and has produced massive hits from Avril, Fall Out Boy, Panic! At the Disco, music for Pitch Perfect etc. Dude is amazing. But, I'd love to see Destiny (woman's name) talk to Butch (Manliest name) about the industry. Lol
I love how Abbas first example of a black artist who got screwed over by a Jewish executive was TLC - a group that was signed to LA Reid, a black music executive.
@Mike Mac the only way to debunk something that has no been proven is to offer an alternative. its a fact that jews have more jobs in these types of industries due to history and etc, but i dont think theres a grand conspiracy of jews controlling everything.
His argument makes no sense lol if you could hire people for $1 a day businesses would definitely do it. If capitalism was more fair back in the day why would they have needed to make child labor laws?? Lol lets be real…
Kanye West Reveals Too Much To Tucker Carlson ►ruclips.net/video/T6mCNo4GWzQ/видео.html
holy fuck this dan guy is the biggest hypocrite and dumbass iv seen on ur show destiny how could u even tolerate the bullshit out of his mouth. Im 30 min in and dan has spent 30 minutes justifying getting free labour bc "capitalism determines worth and therefore their worth is 0 dollars bc no other record label gave them a better deal, but then he goes on to say when aba finally gets the words out "it doesnt matter whether its the best deal or not bc if you are providing value to your boss you deserve to be compensated BASED ON THE AMOUNT YOU ARE MAKING FOR THEM BECAUSE THATS HOW FUCKING CAPITALISM WORKS" you would think dan would agree bc what aba has just said there is an artists worth should be determined by the market and if they made their bosses alot of money bc the market likes them that means they are worth alot. BUT NO dan the fucking soyboi goes on to contradict EVERYTHING HE SAID by saying "nope doesnt matter bc singing shouldnt be worth more than any other job" like bro thats not how capitalism works way to prove ur the biggest fucktard in the world bc unironically what dan is saying here is evil. Either that or he genuinely is so unselfaware he shouldnt be allowed to speak in public. Unreal
michael jackson they don't care. guess what he sings about
Arguing that music labels aren't exploitive is one of the worst takes I've heard in my life.
Cought me off guard a bit
It was quite shocking
I think he was kinda just defending Jewish hegemony by proxy.
"Oh gawd, we're taking a risk, goy! Questioning our profits is antisemitic!!"
music labels are exploitative just like every single other industry. I hate how Kanye says Jewish people are the only ones doing the deals. I wouldn't be surprised if Diddy (Bad Boy Records) a black man is single handily responsible for more fucked deals then any other music executive. its a high margin industry with high net worth induvials of course there is going to be a fuck ton of lobbying for exploitative laws its not a Jewish thing its a capitalism thing. its not like the methods kayne is describing to fuck people over is Jewish exclusive diddy took the laws to extremes that would make the Jewish executives cream.
"I don't even know what a 360 deal is but I disagree." Sums up this whole talk. Not to mention he hasn't even seen the kanye west interview and has a strong opinion.
I don't think that's the point. I think the main thing Dan is saying is: When you're offered a deal with all the information about how it will work and you accept it (and the deal itself is legal) then it's on you that you accepted it and you shouldn't complain.
Is Dan Jewish himself and that's why he's freaking out so badly?
It's personal to him?
@@rosssivertson6339 to be fair, you can make similar argument with Aba
@@jajohnek Yeah but to be fair, we know that that's not how the deals are presented... we have so many testimonials by artists themselves explaining they didn't know what they were signing, and more so to Aba's point, even then there are methods and tricks some labels use to steal or hide or garner profits from the talent that they shouldn't be. Exploiting their ignorance and lack of education and experience in order to squeeze as much out of them as possible.
@@jajohnek if it were that simple artists wouldn't need lawyers to look over the contract
Dan bringing in the longest "I'll pay you in exposure, bro" argument ever.
Seriously. He actually believes that a person is not entitled compensation for their labor. Immortal Technique said it really well when he said, "You mean I have to go to the store, buy the food, and cook it, but I can't sit down and eat with you? What the fuck is that?"
@@travisspaulding2222 a person is entitled to how much the buyer is willing to pay, it sucks but that is probably the most fair.
With his examples, farms back then weren't exploitive because they needed slaves to make a profit on a competitive market and it was the "best deal" those slaves had.
"Companies need to do x or y to make a profit and that's why it's not exploitation".
Then figure something else out. They always talk about competition and the free market will sort itself out but actually lobby and make laws or gatekeep any change or competition to stay alive.
@@fallinggravity9964 I totally agree with you, but playing devil's advocate here slaves didn't agree to that contract
@@Jiminycricket95 That is a bit extreme.
Only other similarity is Harvey Weinstein. If you wanted to be an actress, you have to deal with his predatory shit and not much else you can do about or your career is over in a second.
Exploitation even if the women agree to those terms.
I’ve never heard someone, like Dan, that absolutely doubles down on being right without actually knowing anything about contracts or the music business.
I've heard enough people say shit like "all labor is exploitation" that my gut reaction was to agree with Dan.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor Yea, there’s a middle ground definitely. Dan is the extreme on the other side of the argument
@@cozykarma1542 I grew up in the 90s and I've always listened to underground rap, so basically all my favorite music is from people who couldn't get major label deals lol still went with Dan in the first half
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor I was with it until he supported non-compete clauses in contracts. Never liked how that became standard practice
I think he means well even though he supports some of the shittier practices of some clauses but at the very he didn't come off as a smug asshole like other debaters.
That dude's argument is essentially, "well if it's legal and there's a contract, it's not exploitation".
The issue is no reasonable person would imagine how evil the music industry is. To be honest a lot of these deals probably should have been thrown out as unconscionable but who wants to bring your label to court even if you win your career will probably be over by the time you get on the other side of the legal case
If something doesnt hurt someone(to their knowledge) and they consent to it, then why not?
That’s not his only argument. It’s not exploitation when a label takes a chance on an unknown artist. How many failed artists did they invest in and lose money on? Was the label being exploited by the failed artist that they lost money on?
Except for the part where he talks about the importance of a minimum wage, and explains how the things that the labels are taking from the artists, only exist because the label invested in them to begin with.
Kudo to Dan who was able to drag the discussion wherever he wanted despite being a lost cause. Aba following him putting himself and they ended up debating capitalism. Fail.
A certain group of people do act like freemanson association, you don't need a formal conspiracy, they were able to take a relevant part of money, laws and media, basically the things that matter the most when you want to control a country.
Aba is completely right. There is literally no music expert, influencer, or executive that would say it was easier to get a record deal in the 90s.
Dan just googled how many companies there were and thought it was a fire rebuttal 😂😂😂
For every TLC record deal there was a Beck record deal.
@@themange59 This is completely untrue. I’m in my 30s, I was there. There were far more TLC deals. Beck’s deal was incredibly unusual and rare, there were writeups about it.
I’ll never understand what people get out of typing complete bullshit in a comment section, but…I hope you got whatever you wanted out of it? 😂
Well yeah, when the point is "there's no competition so the deals are worse" and "the deals were worse in the past", but there was more competition in the past. What Dan googled is a defeater. Try to keep up.
@@SoapSoapCrayon lmao at telling me to “keep up” when Dan is completely wrong. I’m gonna assume this is Dan’s burner account 😅
@@jordanporter9593 wow, you're in your 30s, you completely missed the point, not going to bother trying to explain it to you.
Get paid like a south african sweat shop worker for 3 years and MAYBE you'll be famous. Its a good deal
- DAN
@@donaldmack2307 oohhhh the groypers are coming out in full force. got bored of your catboy streamer?
Come out of poverty just to be famous, said know one ever.
Imma let you finish, but Destiny is the greatest woman's name of all time.
Yawn
🙃
@@Wuking93 booooo
😂
@@lostboi2271 This
Dave Chappelle said it best. The lawyers all know each other. The executives all know each other. It's not about labels. It's about distribution.
What clip did he speak on this. And yeah that is a very good point.
@@lavellelee5734 "This industry is a monster." That is a genius bit.
In his bit he mostly complains about signing a contract as an employee of comedy central and then comedy central owning the rights to his work. You know ... like it's the case with every other employee on the planet.
If a programmer or engineer complained that he doesn't own the things he designed as an employee of a company and demand they stop using them, everybody would call him crazy. Let alone a regular worker.
But because he's a multi millionair, it's monstrous that he signed a bad deal and didn't get 50 million, >because he broke the contract
@@wolfvonversweber1109 wrong. His original deal was for a percentage of profit. They said that he made so much money that it made the original contract invalid. They than came up with the arbitrary number of 50 million
Katt Williams talks about it. Yeah but I know research
@@fanaticbox wolf is just another Retard pretending they know what they are talking about
This argument that 'they didnt know who was going to blow up' is brain-dead. Up until very recently, labels controlled the entire supply chain: they controlled studios, engineers/producers, DJs, and the distribution. These people were experts at finding beautiful, semi-talented people, and blowing them up. Success was 100% manufactured. They didn't call it the music _industry_ for nothing.
Yes!!!!! Nobody knew what the money flow. That would've shut down Dan's and Destiny's assumptions about how "risky" it was for them.
That’s half true. But they don’t control what’s popular fully.
Radio and tv did.
Not only that but audiences might not like you.
That’s why one hit wonders exist. That’s why super popular bands exist.
They don’t know who will be like the Beatles or Kanye or Jay z or drake.
They don’t know. They know people are talented but they don’t know what will explode.
They have given shows good time slots that have gotten great reviews and got cancled after one season cuz audiences didn’t watch.
So this is simply small Brained.
Success is partly manufactured but it isn’t fully manufactured.
Yep. In a world where Vanilla Ice was a mega star, it's an absurd argument. They controlled what was on the airwaves, and they knew what was selling.
Maybe its bc when people look back on the music industry, they only remember the greats but there was ABSOLUTELY a long list of artists who flopped or were one hit wonders well into the 90s. Talent =\= high ROI if that talent gets hooked on drugs or decides to never work on another album again bc reasons. You’re stuck with a worthless investment. Believe it or not, even Jewish people looking for investment capital were denied access by other Jewish investors if they had nothing to offer:
@@conradkorbol indeed they didn't control it. But they definitely could predict it depending on what the trend was. They make an investment with research tailored into whatever the hype is. But they won't take on a risk if there's nothing going on for it currently or in the future
Whoever is debating Aba about the record industry and its inner workings has no idea what hes talking about and it pisses me off to no end. I hate when people argue tooth an nail on something they're so ignorant about.
He’s defending his Jewish brethren. That’s just what they do.
@@matrixmeditator common antisemitic L
@V O Yep. The record industry has a setup where its nearly impossible for the Labels to lose and they DO collude. Russell Simmons who co founded Def Jam. One of the biggest hiphop labels ever has even said that when he first started he was invited by his mentor who was a label exec to a wedding in hawaii and he was shocked to see that all the other label heads were in attendance. He thought everyone was competing and trying to kill off the competition which is how Dan THINKS it works in his utopian ultra free market capitalist view of the music industry. But it doesn't. Russ Simmons said the head of Sony, Atlantic, Warner etc were all attending the wedding of this record exec. Which tells you that they all work together to maintain a status quo in the music business!. Thats why im annoyed at this guy debating Aba when he has little to zero knowledge on the subject. Its so cringe.
@@matrixmeditator "they" interesting
@@matrixmeditator this is what happens when you get a little too close with Nick Fuentes
Dan doesn’t know how the music industry works AT ALL hahahha.
His position is essentially “they got paid in exposure”.
ACTUAL musician meme. Lol
them exposure bucks put food on the table bro
musicians themselves don't know how it works
that's why they get screwed lmao
Dan is acting so obtuse for no reason. aba is 100% in the right
@Mike Mac im sure your mother is proud of you in life
@@unclebobboomergames to play the advocate he could be referring to the fact that he's only arguing solely on the bssis that his Jewish heritage is being attack
@Mike Mac you've also done nothing right
@@axsyz6206 Woah, chilllll
@@momofleecy5743 yeah but in that case ive seen every demographic under the sun do it. As of late white people especially. If were just talking defensiveness sure. But aside from the stereotype of it its no different than anything else
Dan literally is the embodiment of speaking without know what the hell he is talking about. Now I gotta question who Destiny surrounds himself with lol. I just lost brain cells listening to this debate.
because u can have friends that are dumb on certain issues, its a thing that happens lol
Dan is legitimately a stupid person. It’s so shocking to me he’s rich. I can hardly imagine him doing a single thing well.
Dans arguments could basically be used to justify any exploitation
"No one will ever love you but I'll slightly love you so date me, it's the best deal you have it's not exploitative"
Dan needs to just admit he doesn't care about exploitation instead of trying to justify it.
The fuck are you spouting about, Dan's argument was ground solid. If you can't understand that, it fine, I can help you, for monetary compensation of course
@@domiro5295 yeah Dan's argument was solid if you're in favor of exploitation 🤣 which you leftists are supposed to be against 🤣 but I guess it's okay when a Jew does it 🤣 and it's not ok when Europenas did it to Native Americans 🤣
@@gabemord5088 Jews and Europeans are the same people
This argument doesn't really help Dan's image.
As someone who’s a aba/destiny fan and this is my first introduction to Dan, yes he seems quite ignorant and narcissistic lol. Btw I’m a professional musician
I’ve thought that he had some pretty bad takes before, but this was just embarrassing
and he was trying to push back against the jewish stereotype. and ended making excuses foe some of the most exploitative stuff that jewish people in power do. i would like to see him defend predatory loans too
@@goncalodias6402 LOL he did in. Saturday’s livestream. Triggered the hell out of Destiny he had to take a rage break. Maybe we’ll get a VOD.
@@goncalodias6402 He wasnt trying to push back against it he was trying to justify it
Dan somehow arguing people into anti-semitism. Impressive.
When the jew can't respond to your criticism, he calls you an antisemite. When that doesn't work, he'll resort to violence.
😂😂😂😂
It's more impresside how he dragged the discussion into debating capitalism... "it's because it's risky", well if it's risky you need capital, something like, I don't know, having access to a friendly bank... and who is extremely overrepresented in the financial system. Aba wasn't able to take an easy win, but he ended up debating exploitation which wasn't even the point of the discussion.
@@RenetteDescartess69 straight facts
@@RenetteDescartess69 it's kinda risky pointing that out though
Dan has never been more aggressively wrong
Also these labels don’t “spend” or “invest” money into their artists. They give them loans - advances - that they have to pay back to the label. These successful artists end up tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to where they HAVE to blow up otherwise they’re screwed.
Dan would have benefited from a little humility and seeking to understand as opposed to being obnoxiously skeptical.
Yes you just described investing in a high risk industry. The stakes are massive so dont mix your dreams with reality and stay the fuck away from loans for risky investments if you want to stay out of debt, why is this so hard for people to grasp? Its the same amount of sympathy i have for gamblers with huge debts. They weighed their risks/rewards, took the chance and lost. Thats life.
@@computer_janitor Monopolistic cartels of any sorts are antithetical to a competitive market system, which is what most free market advocates (including myself) argue for. Thats why i’m just as against corporate monopsonies as I am about labor cartels like unions. Anything that limits competition is detrimental to everyone, but that doesn’t make the practice of limiting your risk via securing future compensation is amoral or wrong. The record label industry is too cut throat and out to get the upper hand over their competitors to be able to collude to the level youre implying.
Do you not understand what investing is? It's not a charity... Using the most basic understanding, an investor gives you money and the reason is hopefully you make enough money to pay it back with interest, just like a loan. That's literally investing...
He's wrong in so many ways its unreal. As if marketing an artist entitles a label to free labor, ownership of master recordings, tour revenue, merchandise, likeness, etc. And that such an agreement would not be exploitative. Fuck outta here
@@powbong7735 that's true but the way Dan presented it was that the unsuccessful acts were just a loss when they were still, in fact, legally liable to pay back the advance with interest meaning even if they lose they won
From what I understand, the labels don’t sign artists for a specific amount of years, they sign them for a certain number of projects. You’re on the label until you meet the quota. That’s where the issues come in, say you’re signed to a 4 album contract and your second album doesn’t do well. The label can then decide to “shelf” you and not release any more projects because they don’t think you have the ability to sell albums. Unless they decide to drop them, artists can find themselves stuck in contracts, it’s happened to plenty of artists. Another example is what happened to NBA Youngboy. He had to produce a certain amount of albums, he released a bunch of projects then the label turned around and said he still owed them more albums because they only counted some of those projects as albums.
When the mob ran the industry in the 90’s record label contracts were done in years. It has transitioned to legitimate record labels but Universal Music Group(Kanye’s previous label) still holds 1/3 market share and it was founded on mobster money via MCA iirc
That’s a part of it. often times labels work off of advances. so say we give nba young boy an advance of $1,000,000. In the contract that advance is to pay back the money put into you. That money goes to producers,distribution, marketing n all that. let’s say his album does $3,000,000. now i give him a $10 million advance. now he owes me $7 million n 2 more albums, not mixtapes. the smart artists stop taking the advances n basically do more shit themselves till they can go independent. the label makes 80% of the stream bro. you make zilch
@@justnamedjames7064 But Prince described how despite him not taking advances since his third album he was still stuck in his contracts several albums and decades later
Dan is being slimy as hell
How did you mess up your little sentence?
Thank god he’s totally proving Kanye wrong.. Oh wait
It’s almost like he’s a jewish investor… oh wait he is.
@@libertas_americana I love the Jews but people like Dan make that such a tall order. Like, just allow yourselves to be treated like every other group. It's not that hard. I thought jews were progressive and supported equal & fair treatment for all. I guess they are, up until they're held accountable for their actions. It's admittedly not very different to how other groups may act, but they're the ones with disproportionate power in our society.
And there's the rub. Jews cannot be the victim even when they're the ones doing the exploitation and victimization. That narrative shouldn't be spun. It only provides cannon fodder for anti-semites.
The idea that you offering someone the best deal they can get inherently makes it non exploitative is objectively wrong. It is the very basis of exploitation.
I cant believe Dan made this argument. Its disgusting to think you cant be exploiting someone if its a deal they cant refuse.
Edit: For the record i'm not anti-capitalist, i believe competition especially in something like a marketplace is vastly powerful and an important tool for civilization. I DO however believe powerful tools like capitalism need to be used carefully and with guided restriction or we end up with this kind of gross sociopathic ideology.
i was on dan side but then this position moved me to aba. Dan is basically arguing that a slavery contract is better than no contract.
sounds a lot like the coporations that try to justify having kids working in sweat shops. like theres a reason why those ppl feel they should endure those types of conditions. its bc they know its a job that'll pay better than MOST in their area. its the "best option". but NO ONE in their right mind would actually try to argue that something like that isnt exploitative 😂 other than dan and big corps i guess
What Dan is struggling to comprehend is that capitalism itself IS EXPLOITATIVE. He also completely ignores that capitalism creates monopolies, and encourages price fixing as well as many other unsavoury strategies. Regulation (band aids) which seek to disincentivise this behaviour is the only reason it hasn’t collapsed. But operating on the margins to give yourself an edge, while riding the line of legality has been the modus operandi since it’s inception.
Yeah his argument is terrible. It was the best deal they could get bc there was no other option and the people who control all the deals have a monopoly on the market
Still going through the video, but I imagine Dan's hangup is that he looks at it like a lot of the those labels did - there is a high risk(specifically more with certain ethnicities or genders), so they likely offer what they think they can at some sort of competitive pricing. They may or may not be intentionally exploitative at the start. The problem is that even with best of intentions, the exploitation of their artists occurs later down the line. At minimum they should renegotiate the contract to improve their client's cut of future profits and/or even pay them back a bigger cut of prior earned revenue when things are up.
dan immediately tossing the $4/hr for an illegal immigrant example and then refusing to talk about college football was pretty telling
dan: but faaaammee
Yeah the football argument was fucking retarded from Aba. How things are are highly related to if the market is highly regulated(football) or as free as possible (music). If only exploitative contracts are allowed the best will of course be exploitative. If non exploitative contracts are allowed you will get them and then the best can't be exploitative.
Would've loved hearing "the artist formerly known as prince" being an example
@@mebarta Or all of the Artists Suge Knight exploited.
Because that’s all these idiots care about now a days . Fame/ clout = form of Payment. I can’t eat or sleep on clout .
The argument between aba and Dan was the perfect balance of aggressive debating
Honestly it was refreshing considering it didn't devolve into cringe spergouts like it normally does. I also learned a few things I didn't know about the music industry.
They managed to be both wrong, the ones extremely overrepresented in media, finance, and position of power, and black people overrepsented in criminal statistics it's not "just a perception", we already know the reasons, and it's not about "social class" and they both try to say. They are both defending their groups. The truth is maky baby steps, I guess.
Anyway they ended up talking about capitalism for 95% of the time, that Dan is really good a wriggle out from a losing position.
@@RenetteDescartess69 Bro idk if its your sentence structuring but im struggling to completely understand what your trying to say. Why are they both wrong? And what are the reasons that we already know?
@@101Neondude they are not both wrong because Dan himself said here that Jewish people are over represented in media, finance and other positions of power. He said he hates when he has to do a deal with another Jewish person because he knows he’s getting raked. Which only supports stereotypes that I can’t say because I’m not Jewish. Dan basically said it’s the business model that causes the blatant extortion from the one artist who blows up to supplement all the artists that didn’t. He refused to admit these media companies wrote things into contracts to give themselves most of the benefits and revenue streams because they were greedy rather than just to offset costs. He wanted to pretend aba was asking for 50-90 percent rather than just a fair percentage. Dan wanted to say the fame was worth the trade, refusing to acknowledge all work done under contract gets stripped away from artist if they ever do exercise any options they may have and that non competes completely stop that person from using said fame for their benefit in 99 percent of cases. He wanted to say the market would correct for it but failed to connect that there is no free market when you’re under a long term contract and a non compete clause that would keep people who have no idea before they sign as a broke kid that they can’t really get out of that contract that no matter how famous they get they are still struggling financially while everyone around them are swimming in wealth. Kinda like fighter pay right now honestly. Back in the day the options available now didn’t exist. I think the main take away here is people have their Jewish conspiracies because Jewish people do own the banks and they do run the media and they are tied into governments around the world. Ofcourse people will see that they have a lot of power and influence to be not so big of a group of people since they control the world’s financial and entertainment systems. The greed stuff is stereotypes but because of what has happened to them over the times then everyone is very touchy about talking about their power in the world and call anything bad said about them as antisemitism because instead of pointing out individuals people point out the religion itself. Aba was not wrong at all in my opinion
@@RenetteDescartess69 the problem is that Aba is aggressively good faith, while Dan is incredibly bad faith.
HOLY SHIT DAN, it’s not the artist’s problem that the label has spent millions on other artists!!! They shouldn’t have to subsidize those entire investments. Literally everything Dan is saying supports Aba’s point.
That shit kills me 😂
Guess its okay for the artist to exploit record labels not the other way around. Basically saying its okay to bankrupt labels as long as the artist is happy.
@@lampad4549 well a record company at least started of rich and the people running it have a high education so at this point there kinda making dumb decisions. Also let's not act like a record company just gives out money to anyone that can sing usually there are ways to prove someone is more likely to succeed. Even if they failed a record company could have given there money out as a loan so those failing singers/rappers would have to pay back the money. Usually record companies don't shut down simply by giving to much money to failed artist lol.
Record labels aren't charities. If labels couldn't turn a profit on average by making lots of money on the few successes, they wouldn't invest in anybody, because they might as well burn their money.
It's amazing how many people here are economically illiterate. If you're investing in something with 50% change of loss, you demand double your money plus interest in return, otherwise you are going bankrupt and hurting yourself.
If there's only a one percent chance of success, you need one hundred times your investment back. If the artists think that's unfair and labels should act like charities by taking losses from 99% and let the 1% have their successes for themselves, they are free to try on their own.
How can Dan manage to make himself sound dumb when Aba is taking Ye’s side lmao.
Oh my god i didnt even fucking realise that aspect. Fucking hilarious
It’s not that hard. Ye’s right until he unfortunately dips into anti-semitism. If he were talking about whites and not Jews there would be 0 pushback
@@Transhumanist_Adam Adam
@@Transhumanist_Adam so then therefore it's not antisemitism, it's just the truth 🤣
Except aba's point didn't focus on them being Jewish, he even said whatever the religion of the people signing artists to the 360 deals, he believed they were being exploitive.
That record label convo gave me a headache. Dan is trying to make it sound like labels are giving 1000 people chances in hopes 1 or 2 make it so they can fuck them over. That way they can turn a profit even after losing on the 998 others.
But labels don’t sign/give that many people a chance. Most record labels have a small amount of artist signed. And most artist are all profitable because they got signed.
Is that true though? I would like to see the average roi for artists signed to these labels
They have to sign a certain ratio of failures compared to success that they make more money they are spending or there wouldnt be people running record labels. But yea its a dead industry model because people can get the same success without needing the investment they did back in the day.
That's actually not true, record labels sign a lot of people, you just don't hear about them because they don't get famous.
I will say, labels do invest a ton into artists. And the notoriety that artists build through those investments/marketing does allow them to make a ton of money in future transactions. I think sometimes artists complain about their deals with labels and don't give enough credit to the things labels did do for them.
However, overall, Aba is correct. There was def a tendency to sign artists to exploitative deals in the 90s. W/o having like a study/stats, it does also seem like that tendency influenced R&B/HIp-Hop disproportionately.
@@mikegribanov6105 I think the main exploitative part is that the signing talent don't fully know and understand the ramifications of what they are signing.
Given that they did understand the contract fully, I agree with Dan that it's not exploitative.
I worked in music for a long time and Aba is 100% correct. Never heard more true words. Dan does net deserve to speak on the music industry ever. He has no knowledge of and experience in the field.
Dan making Kanye sound less crazy 😂
Lebron
😂😂😂😂😂😂...Dan is the crazy one here
I don't think Dan knows what the word 'exploit' means
it's so frustrating..
I mean he's a landlord
@@ergovisavis Not just a landlord. He's also a ... you know
@@ergovisavis He's also a Jew. The word 'exploit' isn't in the Torah.
He knows exactly what it means, he just doesn't care.
I just wanna say about the TLC situation specifically they were in their early twenties (like 20-21) when they signed their contracts. The company that they were signed to La Face records took majority of their profits and the profits they did get got deducted based on needs the group had(Like food, clothes, etc) that the label provided and the group had no idea that was happening at the time. TLC was being lied to and screwed over for years. And the music that they made performed very well after they left. Their is a specific interview the girls made explaining this.
if you looked into it, they made about 50,000 UD out of the 73 million in sales they made.
Yep. It’s so crazy this guy is talking so confidently when he doesn’t even understand how record contracts work. Lmao My guy openly admitted he has no idea what a 360 deal is but it’s probably not exploitative. 🤣 He comes off like he’s someone that would pull off one of these grimey deals
If we took dans argument and applied it to Harvey Weinsteins victims we could argue that wasn’t exploitive because they got movie roles.
Laface records was formed by two black people and they had a black manager.. Aba brought this up because Jews are over represented in management lmao. Pretty ignorant. They’re worth multimillions now they’ll be okay
@@cwhit0110 Jesus…if Aba brought that up the debate would’ve taken a turn 😅
I love how the talk went from “Are there Jews at the top of these industries?” to “Well it was the best deal these Jewish producers can give to these poor black artists” real fast.
Yeah push those goal posts back in the name Israel! Lol
What are you talking about? It’s not moving the goal post the shot had already been scored in the first two minutes. The conversation had simply changed.
To be fair Israeli Jews and Hollywood Jews are quite different.
@@cryptocaesar8972 not really when the Israeli Jews don’t call out the Hollywood Jews
Yeah it's turning from Jews don't run the industry to Jews are helping blacks by giving them record deals lol
@@YuRMoMiNHD But they do lmao.
Dan holy shit man wtf 😂 the biggest issue Dans argument has is that none of these labels were upfront or honest with what they were (or weren’t) giving to these people.
Most of the time people would just come in and get told a bunch of blatant lies after they get supplied with a lawyer that WORKS FOR THE LABEL and advocates that the label is actually going to take care of them.
Then a year later they realize they made a HUGE mistake but it’s too late, these contracts were made specifically to keep the successful people locked in for as long as possible with minimal compensation. Minorities were the specific demographic that was fucked over more than not because of their lack of financial literacy, the fact most of these people never had a half decent come up and LABELS KNEW THIS. It was like taking candy from disabled babies.
Destiny actually got at the crux of the debate here: Dan literally does think that if “the best” an illegal immigrant could get was $4 an hour, that by definition, it then isn’t “exploitative.”
And he’s completely and utterly wrong 😂😂😂
That's inherently exploitative because it's illegal.
@@patmacrotch5611 than by that logic would slavery back in the 1800's be non exploitative because it was legal back then.
@@thebottomline1993 Yeah that comment was unbelievable 😂😂😂
but this all comes down to more than just is it the best, idk why everyone in this conversation is acting like the only option is a shitty contract, if you don't like the contract because you think it will fuck you later, then you can just get a different job, go down a different career path it's so stupid acting like that isn't an option
@@NovaTheVERmin “Nothing is ever exploitative because you can always just get another job”, I promise, is not the big brain take you probably think it is.
Hearing Dan argue against the concept of borrowing a piece of media from a library is such a mood
Dan sounds like a Jew that would happily exploit you lmao capitalism means it wasn’t exploitive Dan thinks capitalism is a perfect system and the free market always works lol it’s simple if me and a group of people want to take over the music industry especially if me and the group of people happen to not be that big of a group happened to all Share an ethnic background making cooperation more likely it wouldn’t be that hard to get together and decide to give nobody a deal better than certain percentages that way we never undercut each other and we share this whole pie it’s really a simple concept and the guy acting like he can’t understand how people could be exploited is beyond me if you take a bunch of poor people that have been poor and under educated for generations it’s not gonna be hard to exploit them want to re-capitalist system with her it was technically their choice to sign the contract or not it’s common sense
Unironically that bit was more stereotypically antisemitic than anything I've ever heard from actual nazis
@@Zach0451 lmao true
Its like he didnt understand that the library(or the state) bought a license to lend out whatever books/dvds they have.
Its not like they went down to the local Barnes and Nobles. Bought a book then put it on the shelf.
Actually, public and private libraries *can* buy a book at normal price and distribute it. Books have a First Sale Doctrine, so that’s totally legal.
But for eBooks and digital media, they have to license it as you describe.
Dan's arguments triggered the fuck out of me.
Same their not based on any logical or coherence.
he got caught up in the jewish thing and ended up personifying the evil jew stereotype to a tee. he made himself sound like if slavery was legal he would do it because "the masters spend a lot of money feeding them"
Talmudic trickery strikes again
@@Justin-is4jy u guys don't get the music industry then lol
Kinda proving Ye's point.
Aba and Dan duking it out for Buddy of the Year.
I love how Dan felt so confident about how well he did about the music debate, and I’m checking the comments and almost no one agrees with him.
The ”best deal available” argument is so dumb because that’s literally how exploitation always starts. A person has no better options and therefore can be taken advantage of.
Dan believing that minimum wage is $15 an hour is super telling of how disconnected he is from the average working class person.
Whoever was arguing with Aba, really doesn't know what he is talking about
Oh he knows what he's saying is bull...But he's Jewish so he will defend it to the death. Same way they try to legitimize Israel.
how dare you insult dan
@@camden666 Dan looking like a flat pan out here
@@camden666 Dan needs to learn to not open his mouth if he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Am i the only one who think Dan argument sound somewhat like the "I'll pay you for your art with exposure" ?
That’s exactly what he’s saying, he knows if the labels told TLC that they would financially would be in the same exact position if not worse if they agree to take their shitty exploitive record deal. They wouldn’t because nobody would be willing sign up for that.
Weinstein level thinking. “Suck my d*** and i’ll make you famous.”
And ppl wonder why black ppl feel the way they do just listen to Dan lol
Dan defending record labels was pretty shite, I usually like the guy but anyone and everyone who is even close to the industry would say it's exploitative. He says they're risking their money for these guys but these artists are putting everything down on the line and actually doing the work which Dan dismisses a little too easily. Record labels have done many evil fuckin things.
He's arguing as if it's still the beginning of record labels and it's just a Jewish guy or 2 trying his best. Like they're enormous conglomerates that make investments like venture capital investment groups and are already making huge profits. I don't feel a shred of guilt if one of their projects doesn't pay off
Was sleeping with Weinstein not exploitative because it was 'their best option'??
Well I'm glad Dan admitted to not knowing much about the industry. He was making sound arguments for an eco class with somewhat related examples, but the entertainment industry is much more personal and subjective. Yes the economics matter ofc, but people got exploited deal to deal depending if they had an agent or not, amongst other shit. It's just not the same
Dan really needs to look into a couple of decently known bands, The Rolling Stones and The Beatles who had the same manager that fucked both of them over and took a lot of their money. Labels are that times 1000
A company is not the same as an artist. A company could last centuries potentially. The artist may make 1 or 2 albums , or a single hit song and that's it. And with many of these deals they could receive nearly nothing from their media. Just look at all these old bands playing shows again
@@ligmafigma9631 oi vey. I wonder what why?
I don’t know, it feels like we expect celebrities to be unbelievably wealthy, and we cry a load when they’re not. Seems pretty lame to me, because these people are not suffering. If you made it after signing a record deal, you’re not exactly struggling. Seems like it’s being blown out of proportion to be honest.
But hey, celebrities get all the pity (even Taylor swift, who’s rich beyond reason) because their fans love them.
If I produce a piece of code in a tech company as an employee and I submit that to their code base, I can’t just leave and take that section of code with me; why aren’t you people going crazy about that? Probably because, for whatever reason, it’s pretty reasonable when it’s not applied to an artist.
Not really sure how I feel about this one, regardless of what my conclusion will be this will never be an issue I care much about.
destiny agreed with dan for the most part yet y'all still up his butt
pretty hypocritical
@@matsab7930 this isn't about celebrities really, this is about artists who got fucked out of a lot of money because they had no financial literacy. I mentioned the Rolling Stones and The Beatles getting fucked because they're huge now and since, but they didn't make even close to what they should have earned at the time. Imagine smaller artists who don't make it and don't continue, and have no rights to their products.
I see your code line of reasoning, but implementation of code can be easily quantifiable and pretty much objectively judged. Music and art cannot be. And even if one still contends the code is that unique, I don't agree coders and engineers are treated right either to begin with, despite how much money they seem to make.
Think about Steph Curry, he's paid a tremendous amount, but if you compared it to the value he added to the Warriors he should be getting paid more, WAY more. It's not about how good your sitting it's what you deserve vs the guy who threw money at you. Just please read into the music industry and how so many artists you might even listen to today got fucked and barely have a livelihood. Minus Beck cause he's awesome and got a ton of money
Problem I see is Aba is arguing the deal was unethical, and Dan is arguing it from a cold logic/capital standpoint. Dan isn't wrong in saying it's the best deal they had available and they entered it willingly, but it does nothing to actually refute Aba's point about ethics and exploitation.
EXACTLY! I wanted aba to point this out because it felt like they were talking past eachother.
dan getting outclassed is always my favorite thing
When did that occur? Dan’s argument is sound.
@@Goulash45 his argument is far from sound.
He exaggerated how thin the margins are for record labels. They don’t put all their hope into 1/100 people making it. They can afford to compensate their highest performers without going broke
Also his argument that they agreed to a contract so it’s not exploitation is not valid. If someone targets legal illiterate people and give them crappy contracts cos they don’t know better that’s textbook exploitation
he wasnt tho?
@@brooks4365 Why are there so many failed labels if the margins are better?
@@brooks4365 They pay their highest performers what they agreed to in a contract. They don’t pick and choose what to pay them based on their numbers after the contract is in effect, unless that’s a condition of the contract that everyone agreed to.
Dan proving Kanye’s point
Classic 🥸
You can almost hear him rub his hands together the entire debate
Dan’s whole life, down to his occupation and race, is proving Kayne right. But to Dan, exploiting black people is fine. “They’re making them famous!” Lol
Fucking facts!!!!!
Dan is also Jewish. I think there is certainly a mindset that is common with the Jewish community where it’s okay to exploit people.
Dan's arguments are pretty gosh-golly-good-darn-bullshit
Dan in the beginning sounds like kanye saying slavery is a choice
@@donaldmack2307 Either do what the slaver say's or die!
Yeah, seems like the slaves had a real choice in their situation, either do what they're told or die.
I also like how you say, "or don't". Oh yeah, yeah little slave, just don't do what the slaver is telling you to! You can just not do what he's demanding of you, duh!
@@donaldmack2307 choose slavery or death some wild option
@@donaldmack2307 so is coercion just cool now neat
@@donaldmack2307 Donald…you are a fucking moron. I normally try to be more civil in YT comments but there’s really no way for me to do that here.
lmao @ “a very very hard and difficult choice but still a choice.” Seriously - go fuck yourself.
@@donaldmack2307 Do you think being a rape victim is a choice?
Can physically inferior rape victims choose to rewind time and unfuck themselves?
This defense of exploitation, for the sake of defending high risk investment, was disgusting. Lost respect for Dan.
If you have to exploit 1 successful investment, to pay for the other 99 dumb investments you made, then your business model is brainless, and you deserve to personally take on that risk, not the people you exploit.
Aba crushed these guys and made them show their hand. Brilliantly played bro you just gained a fan 👍🏾
Except Dan... Do you think that TLC seriously had no other record labels to sign to? Or do you think that either a.) They signed the first due to naivety (thus taking advantage of them) or b.) They weren't financially literate enough to know they were getting fked or..... c.) Only one label offered (or would) TLC a contract?
Dan was a total brainlet here.
It’s morally wrong, but I also think that you get basic financing shit in high school though
@@aClownBaby- In America? Nah you don't. Aba is correct... You don't learn it in school, and if your parents don't teach you, you're a fish out of water.
@@austinl5158 That is seriously so fucked if that’s true. You don’t get mandatory economics first 2/3 years of high school? At least 1 year, they should absolutely put that in place
@@aClownBaby- Which country you from🤣
@@lavellelee5734 The Netherlands
For someone that doesn't know the music industry, Dan sure knows a lot about the music industry he knows nothing about.
"if you're willing to get paid 1 dollar, don't worry ill pay you 2 dollars."- said no one ever.
dan forgets the fact that we still have sweatshops where they get paid literal pennies because “it’s the best deal they can get”
Dan's argument is on why it's technically legal/moral. "We gave you a shot when no one did and no one willl. These artists are adults and should know what they're doing." When there is a reason that all big artists now advocate younger artists to get lawyers and how to navigate the business. They didn't always put it in such simple terms.
Of course, the Jew is the one who doesn't think it's exploitation.
@@guccidonbuzzflightyear4440 Aba wasn’t talking about capitalism being exploitative, if you want to be disingenuous go somewhere else.
dan seems like the kinda of guy who would be like 3rd world sweat shops in asia area alright because they offer the best pay relative to whatever else is available in their area lol
"They aren't out in the rice paddies and that $1.25 a day is way more than most of them are paid so..."
that is the correct opinion though.
@@coocoo3336 it isnt. and youre actually a retard for unironically defending sweatshops.
@@coocoo3336 In the capitalist frame-work it is the correct opinion. No ethics, no morals just profit.
@@ucheobiekwe2287 sweatshops are a small sacrifice for building wealth and getting rid of poverty. The alternative is child labour on subsistive farming.
Dan straight up proving Ye's point lmfao
wrong
The "word" Aba is looking for is "market manipulation"
Also shout out to Destiny for finally making me remember which one is Aba or Preach
I mean Dan's argument about risk makes sense. However, that doesn't really explain why artists continue to get fucked after they have proved their worth.
The key problem in the music industry was the fact that distribution companies engaged in anti-trust practices. They shut out competition by threatening retailers. For example, they would approach Tower Records and others, "if you stock this independent artist or record label, we'll refuse to sell to you these 80 artists that we service".
Dan defending his fellow jew no matter what. Imagine if your average /pol/ user listened to this.
Dan is just reaffirming the truth about the JQ.
Dude needed an example of artist getting screwed in deals… literally everybody lol
Dan doing the best deflecting he can.
Edit: The longer this goes on, the more Dan sounds like Calvin Candy watching a mandingo fight from Django Unchained.
@@ligmafigma9631 LOL
😂😂 now you have my attention
This entire video is Dan being aggressively braindead
This Dan guy makes me side with Kanye more and more
Props to Aba 🙌🏾
Dan’s acting like all 60 record labels would be interested and offering deals to new artists. What if only one label thought you might have potential? You don’t just get to shop for labels as a new artist. You only get the offers you get.
just fyi most of the 60 labels are just subsidiaries of the top 3 or 4 at the time. It was an illusion of options.
@@eddieisfiction442 Oh absolutely, I imagine it's similar to publishing (I have experience in that industry). A lot of imprints, but all owned by a "Big 4," which used to be a Big 7, then a Big 6, etc.
It is also important to realise that a lot of these artists are young people who come from low income families. Many of them were just desperate for an opportunity so they’d sign anything.
And I don’t know the technicalities of it but there is a thing in the music industry where a label can own the name that you make music under. As a result, nothing can be released without the label’s approval. That’s actually happening to an up-and-coming artist that I like right now. Someone bought his name and he hasn’t been able to release any music for about a year now. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s why Prince changed his name. He wanted to release more music than the label would allow, so he released music under a new name
The one thing not really made clear is that these deals are deceptive. The artist thinks they will make money and on paper, it looks like they will. However, the record labels 'lie' and claim extra costs resulting in the artist getting nothing. The artist is taken advantage of by industry veterans who know how to give false impressions so the signer and possibly their legal team do not know what they are really signing.
‘If it’s the best deal you can get, it’s not exploitative’ - ‘singing isn’t worth more than carrying cinderblocks so why would I pay more than minimum wage’ , the thought process behind the type of people who propagate this exploitive behaviour is scary. This is how *they* think. As we continue to go more down this rabbit whole publicly, it will become more apparent that *they* are at the top and happy to exploit people for their own means
Kanye’s really woken up a beast of conversation in a weird way I think these conversations happening is exactly what he wanted to happen
These conversations have been happening for a long time. But it's more like after a decade of Black Lives Matter stuff, people are actually hearing black people's grievances with Jewish people for the first time and their minds are blown. Progressives always thought they could kind of neatly sweep inter-minority conflicts under the rug.
Dan's need to jump to the defense of shady business practices seems to be coming from an instinctive place, particularly in light of how little he's thought through his own argument.
Bro 😂
@@drealest7483 "instinctive" 😂
Hooooly fuck the dog whistling lmao
Glad to see everyone call out Dan. He argues so poorly. Keeps rephrasing to macro when he’s beat in the specifics, and literally gets walked down every argument only to rephrase and shift at the end when he’s wrong
I liked the part where dan looked up a Wikipedia list of record labels
It feels like i could use Dan's arguments to justify owning a slave as long as im nicer to him than the other slavers
"Its okay young Tnetnba, im not exploiting you because I only give you two lashes for speaking out of turn. Anywhere else you'd be looking at 5"
Take solace Ttenetba, knowing Dans cotton farm only gives his slaves 1 meal a day.
Let’s be real they would’ve changed Tnetnba name immediately to Tobey lol Enslavers are not letting you keep that name
i liked the part where aba brought up tlc as an example of jews screwing over black people when tlc actually signed to black managers
all this talk about the black community needing to hold itself accountable and stop playing the victim went out the window quick
If slavery had the chance to make you a millionaire and you were always free to take a regular job instead your comparison might make some sense...
@@wolfvonversweber1109 yeah fair enough. Its not a 1-to-1, but im also just trying to be funny and point out the complete absurdity of that particular defence dan used.
Its a hyperbolic comparison that obviously isnt 100% accurate, but don't act like it makes 0 sense
Dan talking about how "I own that song. You don't 'get to come back 10 years later and want to use that. I bought it". Dan is the prime example of someone who doesn't understand the arts industry. Visual Arts is a prime example. If you go out today and pay an illustrator to draw you a book cover, if you think that you now own that art you are in for a big surprise.
An artist retains all copyright over their own work and under normal circumstance they get paid to license out the rights for use (a lot of small time artists just trying to do 20 buck commissions is different, they sign it all away 99% of the time). Visual artists however have their own batch of predators where "I'll pay you in exposure!". But that's an entirely different rats nest.
Record labels however strip all rights away from a music artist so they have no ownership, often no rights to what is even IN their songs, among god knows how many other sketchy practices. They own your image. They own you. Often people are so desperate to "make it big" they sign without realizing what it truly entails. There is a reason people call it "signing your soul away".
All Dan would have to do is google a handful of links on "Record label bad" and he could see how different it is from "normal capitalism".
I don't know a lot about art contracts, but the contracts I've signed have had different levels of ownership. I had the options of signing over exclusive rights of my product, commercial rights, a mix of both etc. If you just compensate someone for a picture without a contract I think that's very different from a written contract of ownership rights.
Having the proprietary right of something while contracting commercial rights of it, you are correct. However I am almost certain you can sign over all of those rights in a contract, kinda how the Nike swoosh was bought and owned for only $35.
@@LiiRAE. only 35? Damn 😂
@@LiiRAE. You most certainly CAN sign it away and someone can definitely buy it. The main point is Dans claim that "I bought it, I own it" isn't the case with a lot of art. Just because you put money behind the creation of a piece of art doesn't mean you own squat.
People pay artists commissions to create a piece of art, then purchase the rights to use it for their projects unless they pay a much larger sum (when dealing with professional artists once again).
The record labels however force artists to sign predatory contracts that fork over the rights to everything an artist makes, or will make in a lot of cases without the proper compensation or rights. Most young artists don't know any better so they get screwed over.
"it can't stop you from working and using your name." True, however, it also means that you can be sued and have everything taken from you because you signed away your likeness for x amount of time
I know someone who is going through that now, she can’t even use her social media pages.
Dans argument falls apart when you look at all of the viral sensations that are working normal jobs now. Having people know your name means literally nothing if you can’t monetize it in anyway.
Average Dan take
Dan is talking about the music industry like he watched a 2 hour lecture a Gen Z student had to do for public speaking class and their topic was "Why the Music Industry Isn't Exploitative"
It’s not about Jewish people… it’s about the people who are bad. There are bad Black people, bad Muslims, bad Mexicans etc.
It’s about your actions and not your ethnicity.
The holocaust also didn’t just happen in Germany it happened in most European countries as well as in African and Asian countries..
Most Americans I talk with don’t even know this.
Dan’s argument is low key terrifying…
He's a Googler.
Well he’s a we can’t say it
@@nunnewent5217 😂
He’s blacked so
This Dan dude is so disingenuous
They never told TLC that would be deal, that's why it's exploitative.
Dan is so disingenuous never won. These companies are not commissioning art artist come to them with their art already done you can’t just walk into a studios and say I want to be the next famous person and I say sure you have to already have talent already have your music already finished
Well, they come with a demo right? And then the company provides studio time, engineering, production, and distribution. And then they find out if all that was worth it. So the risk/reward element is still there.
15:58 whoever this is knows absolutely NOTHING about the music industry. Everything he said is completely wrong and it's just a horrible argument. The whole 3 labels thing is wrong, they've just monopolized the game, they have a lot of sub labels. For example, Motown is one of MANY record labels that universal owns. Second, even though there weren't REALLY more labels back then, to talk like getting a record deal was like getting a record deal was as easy as getting a subway sandwich is LUDICROUS. I could give plenty of reasons why I'll condense it to, you were EXTREMELY less likely to get a deal if you didn't LIVE in new York or LA back then (especially if you weren't in another major music city like Houston, Nashville, etc) & labels were really shooting in the dark as far as getting talent. A lot of the artists you see from the 90s and back are LUCKY. Just because one label is talking to you, that doesn't mean there is a bidding war or that you'll ever get another offer, that's FOOLISH to think ESPECIALLY for the old music industry. To give you context, look at the wutang series and see what RZA had to do to get discovered and being IN NEW YORK was more than half the battle. You can also watch a Madonna biopic and guess what, SHE WAS IN NEW YORK TO... Temptations, Jackson 5, Cadillac records, etc. It's always been competitive to get a record deal and unlike NOW, there was more luck involved. And I hate to drag it but as far as now, you can be a national recording artist independent of a label. Only people who had that type of leverage back then were guys like mc hammer and master p because they took over major city regions independently out of their trunk and not only got LUCKY, but had proof that they can generate profits.
Dan is usually not this dumb. TLC and thousands of other artists got completely fucked, yeah they were famous but all of their music they wrote they didn't own, they made no money from record sales or touring and a lot of the times the labels owned their actual name so even if their fame could have led to some money made after the labels would still get a substantial portion of that as well.
I find him to usually be this dumb.
Whether or not Aba or Adam come on, we're not going to be able to reconcile that Destiny is indeed, a girls name.
aba is too
I wonder if we’ll stop dragging out this joke soon
What Dan doesn’t know is that record labels don’t invest in nobodies! You need to have a buzz or song already going around locally, especially today you need at least 100k followers on socials to even get a email response
It explains a lot (and scares me) that there are most likely many more people that share Dan’s views here.
FR. The scariest part IMO is he had know idea what he was talking about and they agreed with him anyway. When he said "if they (record labels) take a cut", I knew he tripping. Even Destiny's assumption that they were talking about the music industries exploitation prior to civil right was wild funny 🤣. Good on Aba for hanging in there.
Literally a jew explaining how others jews screwing you over is ah ok 🤣 and yet they'll still deny the Jewish conspiracy 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@sw3783 ... expand on that
@@gabemord5088 yes, still a conspiracy theory. Shut up anti-semite
@@itryesitr8053 keep coping
Dan making the "you get paid in exposure" argument lol.
Unpaid internships aren't just bad because a kid is getting unpaid for doing work, it's because it really blocks people from poor backgrounds from participating. If you take an unpaid internship, you realistically need some family or someone else to fund your basic needs outside of that. If you don't have that then tough shit, it's more urgent to get a job that pays, even if it's minimum wage and doesn't lead to anything better down the line.
Dan - “If it’s the best deal they could get, and they accept, it’s not exploitative.”
Tell that to the kids who sew your shoes together, Dan.
Dan wants to pay his employees in exposure, great memes...😂
Dude, that Weinstein level shit. “Let’s bang and I’ll make you famous.”
Dan in a nutshell- most hilarious guest when he’s right, and more obnoxious than mrgirl when he’s wrong
Man, 30 Seconds to Mars is a great example Aba could have used. If Leto hadn't had acting money that band would be in debt. Their label tried to rail them AFTER their success.
Also, The Marvelous 3 was a band fronted by the legendary Butch Walker. They had the most played song on radio in 1999. They built success on their own and were signed by Electra with an already existing self made album ... They toured etc, then Electra paid for an amazing sophomore album BUT didn't even promote it. Just focused on Missy Eliot instead (no hate to Missy of course). Butch and his band mates were left fading out so they broke up as a FU to the label. Butch went on to do a very successful solo career and has produced massive hits from Avril, Fall Out Boy, Panic! At the Disco, music for Pitch Perfect etc. Dude is amazing. But, I'd love to see Destiny (woman's name) talk to Butch (Manliest name) about the industry. Lol
Dan's just wrong here. The record industry is notorious for screwing over artists for decades.
literally unwatchable. the guy debating aba has no idea what hes talking about
I love how two non debaters had the best debate Destiny had on his stream in a while
I love how Abbas first example of a black artist who got screwed over by a Jewish executive was TLC - a group that was signed to LA Reid, a black music executive.
Has Destiny ever actually debated against antisemitism? Dan asked him to but he just ignored it.
@@donaldmack2307 cope loser
what is there even to debate about
@@donaldmack2307 seems pretty easy if you look at the history of Jews but Destiny hates history.
@Mike Mac the only way to debunk something that has no been proven is to offer an alternative. its a fact that jews have more jobs in these types of industries due to history and etc, but i dont think theres a grand conspiracy of jews controlling everything.
@@ZbjetisGod yea. 109
His argument makes no sense lol if you could hire people for $1 a day businesses would definitely do it. If capitalism was more fair back in the day why would they have needed to make child labor laws?? Lol lets be real…