The Dutch Economy is NOT the Most Unequal
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- As a Dutch economist who works for a South African University, I was absolutely shocked when I saw this video from Economics Explained (EE) which states that the economy of the Netherlands is in fact the most unequal on earth!!
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△ Link to EE's video: • How The Dutch Economy ...
△ Check out my economic country studies here: • Country Economics
SOURCES:
I've linked my sources in the blog that goes along with this video:
www.moneymacro.rocks/2021-05-...
Timestamps:
0:00 - introduction
1:43 - bad numbers
10:22 - taxes reduce inequality
Attribution:
Big thanks to Minute Marty for shooting drone footage of Groningen for me. Check out his drone shots (Create Commons License) here: / @minutemarty
Narrated and produced by Dr. Joeri Schasfoort (University of Cape Town & University of Groningen)
/ joerischasfoort
/ joeri-schasfoort
Explaining economics to "Economics Explained"
Underrated comment.
Paaamp the comment.
EE is such an awful channel
@@djeieakekseki2058 EE needs to close down the channel, more like.
classic
As a South African living in the Netherlands i can assure you there is much less inequality in every single way in the Netherlands. Except when it comes to sunshine and gorgeous vistas then South Africa is tops !
Haha. I know man... I miss the Table Mountain national park every day.
Actually, when it comes to sunshine and gorgeous vistas the Netherlands is very equal, it's equally terrible everywhere. Well, unless you cheat by including the Dutch Caribbean.
I'm not looking forward to having BEE round two installed in this country.
I'm Dutch and I prefer my sunshine medium rare. If we hit 35 degrees I'm a puddle on the floor. Today's rain was wonderful, inmediately went out for a walk with the dog.
@@NLTops Yep, definitely a bigger fan of a 15-30, preferably on the lower end of that scale.
That is the problem with informing yourself through YT. If "serious" scientists tamper with data to prove a point or to validate their personal points of views somewhat frequently, imagine what a random youtuber won't do. At least in the research business, papers have to be peer-reviewed. So big props to you for "peer-reviewing" EE's video.
To be fair, EE could have made the video in good faith, but simply didn't understand the data and drew the wrong conclusions.
As you mentioned YT videos can also be peer reviewed. We just need an algorithm to match a video with its peer reviews
DUDE!!!!!!!! YOU LITERALLY JUST MADE A BAD FAITH ARGUMENT!!!!!! YOU PRESUME SOME RANDOM NEFARIOUS / SINISTER / BAD INTENT ON THE THE PART OF THE RANDOM RUclipsR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEING FACTUALLY WRONG HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH LYING AND/OR MISLEADING SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D
ALSO, WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU WANT TO REDUCE WEALTH INEQUALITY??????? SHOULD A 40 HOUR PER WEEK DOCTOR BE PAID THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT AS SOMEONE WHO IS ON GOVERNMENT WEALTHFARE????????? SHOULD SOMEONE WHO WORKS 1 HOUR PER WEEK BE PAID THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT AS SOMEONE WHO WORKS 40 HOURS PER WEEK??????? SHOULD A CEO WHO IS RESONSIBLE FOR THE FINANCIAL HEALTH OF A COMPANY WHICH EMPLOYS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE BE PAID THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AS SOMEONE WHO WHO LIVES OFF GOVERNMENT WEALTHFARE?????????? WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE WOULD IN A COUNTRY WHICH ACTIVELY PREVENTS THE ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH BY SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS!!!!!!! WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT REDUCING WEALTH INEQUALITY SEEKS TO ACHIEVE!!!!!!!! THE ONLY WAY TO COMPLETELY GET RID OF WEALTH INEQUALITY IS TO FORCEFULLY, AT GUN POINT, VIOLATE EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUALS PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS AND STE4AL THEIR PROPERTY AND LIQUIDIATE IT, AND THEN GIVE THE WEALTH TO THOSE WHO DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO EARN IT!!!!!!!!!! I WOULD NEVER WORK A DAY IN MY LFIE IN SUCH A COUNTRY!!!!!! IN FACT, I WOULD IMMEDIATELY LEAVE SUCH A COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY BECAUSE SUCH A COUNTRY IS CALLED A COMMUNIST COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D
@@kieranrollinson8750 what a beautiful example of a bad-faith argument. Unless you genuinely don't understand "reduce" and "eradicate" are not synonymous.
@@fractiousperson303 DUDE!!!!! YOU MISSED THE TNIRE POINT OF THE ARGUMENT!!!!!!!! YOU ARE ILLOIGCAL AND HEREBY DECLARED CLINICALLY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D
EE is one of those content creators that sound very convicing on every topic you have low experience in.
And then he does a video on something you have a good idea about and you tear your hair out watching his smug ignorance.
I've generally stopped watching videos about economics and politics on RUclips for that very reason.
Too many content creators stumbling around in ignorance, desperately scrambling for views.
I had this problem when he did a video on Russia, it was such a bias video not even naming Russia's attempts to diversify it's economy away from resources or the fact that Russia's military sector is one of the top exporters. He was just "blah blah, Russia economy bad."
@@linusmayden8465 His video on the Russian economy was so vague it was basically useless. I was really interested in how Russia was doing with capitalism after the dissolution of the USSR and from watching that video I essentially learned nothing.
I think it's more a case of.... The things he specifically OMITS, leaves an idealized picture which resonates heavily with _temporarily-embarrassed millionaires_ and Libertarians because it's giving the Narrative that all wanna-be entrepreneurs wish to believe in. And that's the most impulsive & thus commercially Pandered to demographic ON youtube.
The fact he's never explicitly focused any video towards being Critical of Reaganism + Clintonism is probably the most Intellectually-Dishonest thing any Global Economist could ever do and raises ALL of the Red Flags. ...but at the same time explains exactly why Boomer-Tube regards him as the Default-Recommend.
@@iller3 Then again, his Norway video would contradict this because of Norway's mixed economy with profitable state owned enterprises that manage to build Norway's wealth fund, he seemed to promote it a little.
Thanks for this. I was literally yelling at the screen while watching the original Economics Explained video.
Awesome!! Love your channel by the way!!!
I screamed so hard as well
me too...
@@MoneyMacro I love it when all my favorite orange channels come together
You have no idea you featured my high school sweetheart on your channel, and how I got small butterflies when I saw her again.
Thank you for that!
I am a South Korean living in Britain, I laughed so hard with both videos about Korea and Britain. After this video I am getting increasingly aware that it wasn’t only the case of those two videos.
What do you think economically about the UK?
His video about the UK was really lacklustre
@@annajones9701 Long story short, it needs more push with manufacturing. Although UK is good at high value manufacturing I think there need to be more support from the government to those companies which want to come back to Britain. Other than that, I find Britain more economically advanced than South Korea, especially with welfare.
@@minseokshin4514 Interesting, as a Londoner I find that South Korea's recent adoption of MMPR voting like in Germany or New Zealand will make it far more Democratically advanced and accountable than that of the UK/England.
It looks as if what we have really learned here is that EE is an unreliable source and not worth watching. Good to know!
I’m really loving these kinds of videos where creators like you are calling out other bigger creators in a peer-review esque way. It’s very much needed and appreciated 👍🏼
Yeah. Educational platforms (like RUclips) really need to more peer-review
Very interesting how I remember EE responding to this about how he's taking it all in good faith and would love to talk about it, but no matter where I check, his responses are gone. I think he posted about it on his channel's Community page, but there's nothing about this there either. I then checked his original video, and he did adjust the title - to the exact opposite of what you recommended. This kind of attitude really shines light on who to believe more.
As a dutchman and political scientist I got recommended the video. So many mistakes my head spinned and was out of there. Thanks for pointing them all out.
And rider of Rohan*
@@Kruiwagenchauffeur how is political scientist an oxymoron?
@@Kruiwagenchauffeur You're on a slippery slope making this argument in the comments of a video about economics lmao
@@Kruiwagenchauffeur huh? That's a misunderstanding of political science 😂 it's not science that gets political, it's poliitcs which gets looked at in a scientific manner
@@lucaslolz lmaoo, I don't look at peoples profile picture that much 😂😂 thanks for letting me know
Stopped watching EE's videos after having seen a few like these.
I'm not economicly gifted enough to debunk his videos but as a well of poor Dutch citizen I smelled something was wrong with that video.
Just know that we in the Netherlands don't have a free market, we talk about the favor of the nation and therefore you my friend are last on the list.. The motor has to turn hard enough to forsee the income of the state
Good example
Even the poorest Dutch citizen lives a better life than the Poorest American Citizen.
Since in the USA they can take everything you own. if you are in debt
While in the Netherlands: they can at least live a somewhat normal life. [though there are a few corners that need to be cut. like only buying discounted items. or not go on Holidays] you live at least a much better life
@@darknessblades believe me.. In the Netherlands they will take everything from you, if you don't have an adress then they will fine you 350 euros everytime you'll walk into a check, if you can't pay you'll go to jail.. The fact you don't see the homeless in the streets is mostly because police will bully them away... And you are right in the sense of if you don't have values and your willing to do anything then the government will get you on an infuse which will keep ur nose just above the water.. I'm not saying America is holy at this moment but it's at least build upon a holy thought which gives man the right on the persuit of happiness.. Believe me that an infuse on the lowest standards of life is no happiness and doesn't give room for any free minds. Therefor a self made man is an illusion in the Netherlands and pretty common in America.
@@REByrd-ki3on At least the tuition fees here are affordable without stressing people the fuck out about how much they'll have to pay back.
@@REByrd-ki3on There is SO MUCH wrong with what you say that I won't even bother to try and correct you. Just know that not even one single thing you stated is correct. But, good luck with that and other than that, I don't really care what you believe, especially since it doesn't seem to have any value anyway :)
Oh, and obviously, no, I don't believe you.
Greetings from Rotterdam!
I knew EconomicsExplained's video was deeply flawed already, however I had a lot of preconceived misunderstandings on how wealth inequality calculations work. Thanks for the high quality video fellow Dutchman.
As an aspiring economics student currently living in NL I loved this video. I love how you analysed his sources and showed that he had flaws in his metrics, comparison period and economic reasoning (all things that are highly focused on in research courses in the first few years) and so easy and well explained! From living here for quite a while now I can say that anyone who hasn’t properly lived here cannot judge from the outside. Yes there is room for improvement in any country I this world! But NL truly is one of the most well organised countries out there. Moving away from here now shows me how spoiled I’ve been the past few years, it’s jus tall so we’ll organises, controlled and communicated.
EE employs the tactic of "When you've no good data, just talk fast and sneer"
just pull a Ben Shapiro to seem smart
The Ben Shapiro school of thought.
In the video EE is clear that it's from a narrow point of view and that there is a lot more to economic data than just the headline.
Ironically you made the same mistake he was cautioning against.
@@somethinglikethat2176
Yes but he still concluded that Netherlands was "the most unequal country on Earth". That was a big mistake.
@@night6724 lol
As a Dutch historian, I couldn't get through the part where EE claimed we have lots of old money dating back to the 1600s. The 19th century in particular shook up so many noble families in the Netherlands (and we didn't have much royalty in the Dutch Republic anyway), that most of the richest families aren't even older than 150 years. To my knowledge there aren't many 'regentenfamilies' left, as most patrician families today trace back their heritage after the Napoleonic period or well after. These people are moderately wealthy, and are just a small part of the Dutch population.
That is interesting because quite a few people commented on this. That I should have looked at regentenfamilies that were not in the nobility. Couldn't find reliable info on their wealth though.
@@MoneyMacro Dutch regents were not part of the nobility, as there were no officials in the Dutch Republic who could grant them a noble status. The only true nobility we have that can trace their heritage back to the pre-1500s are few and far between and usually not of higher rank than 'jonkers/jonkheren' (squires). they were appointed by the German Emperor when we were still part of the Holy Roman Empire.
'Regenten' were self-made men, not belonging to any noble lineage. They were usually rich merchantmen or city- and state-officials. They loved the distinction of being powerful while not being noble at the same time. Many regent families lost their power after the Napoleonic era, while some were reinstated as 'patricians' by King WIlliam I (though he preferred to create newer noble families and use the aformentioned jonkers as the new 'elite', probably to strengthen his own position).
'Het Blauwe Boekje' still lists all the patrician families we have in the Netherlands. It's quite an extensive list but to my knowledge does not contain any information regarding wealth. After 1848 it has become rare for the royal family to grant noble status to citizens, so the amount of patricians today has not really increased much. They're probably still wealthy but that doesn't account to much compared to the entire population of the Netherlands.
@@MisterDutch93 yeah, so how I understood it is that the current nobility was made nobility by both Napoleon and Willem I. But, then I assumed this would for at least a large part be old regent families. Wrong assumption?
@@MoneyMacro The old regent families made up only a small part of Willem's appointed nobles. It was a strategic decision to maintain his own power. Willem didn't want to be influenced by the old elite. As a noble himself he knew the regents suppressed noble rights during the Dutch Republic, but he had to grant some of the old families new priviliges to appease them.
Public opinion also played a major role. After the Napoleonic era (and a century of stagnation during the Republic's final years), most people were done with the old upper class. It was time for a fresh start, so to speak. This is why not many regentfamilies exist today. Most of them faded into obscurity.
Yes, the Netherlands is a distant 20th in "ultra high net worth" ($50 million +)
France 3750, Canada 3510, Italy 3560, Switzerland 3300 all nearly tied at 7th 8th 9th 10th page 22 Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2021.
As a Filipino and economics graduate, I knew something was immediately up with EE’s videos when he released his video on the Philippines. I always thought his videos were ok for surface-level understanding, but that’s it. His Philippine video made it seem like he didn’t even read anything about the Philippines. There was no research done, it was all from an outsider’s perspective, and just generic.
Happy to see that it wasn’t just me that found something wrong with his work.
That was the Fifth Asian Tiger one, right?
I kind of love how focussing on you assuming that the EE video was made in good Faith kind of creates doubt that it was. Was really puzzled by his video but wasn't sure as I have no background in economics and know suprising little of my northern neighbours. Thanks for this video. Loved it.
Groningers and Australians who talk about economics have one thing in common: their accents make their audience believe they always talk no-nonsense common sense.
@@jackie.sussex_squadnetherl9366 r u ok
Well yeah the correct accent trumps stupid things like evidence or reasoning. See Sargon of Akkad as a good example.
I am Dutch, can confirm ..
@@jackie.sussex_squadnetherl9366 No. When you present horrible "research" you deserve to be called out on it.
You mean dutch, this isnt a groningen only accent lmao
I'm an expat living in the Netherlands and I was very surprised to hear that the Netherlands was even close to the top for inequality. That being said I was/am a big economics explained fan so I didn't really question it too much, I'm glad this video exists to set the record straight.
Beware that basically every video of EE is riddlded with false claims and false numbers. Stop watching it.
@@pinzinkinzin4066 I've only watched a few and its one of those eh kinda channels. Kinda like that just bikes Channel who thinks everything has to do with urban planning when it doesn't. At this point, I just watch to hear another opinion but usually to get the clicks they are wrong 50% of the time.
Hi, Mellow Mike. I have a question, why do you call yourself “an expat” and not “an immigrant”? I’m asking this, because English is not my first language.
@@oscareduardoortizpacheco5612 I'm not really sure to be honest, people in my circles just use the term so I use it too.
I believe an immigrant intends to live somewhere permanently whereas I intend to here temporarily. But I'm not 100% certain
@@mellowmike6263 Thank you very much for your answer. I hope you have a great day! Take care, amigo!
I have somehow found myself in an area of RUclips focused on city planning and economics, mostly pro Netherlands, and I’m loving it
Thank you for this!
I have absolutely no clue about economics and got somewhat into EE's work in trying to understand it, and if you haven't ever actually studied this stuff a lot of the things he says and shows seem very convincing and even self-evident. Seeing other people in the comments here saying they've seen similar issues with a lot of their videos, some more charitable than others, has made me pretty wary now actually.
I’m dying laughing of the “but if we dig a little deeper” comment after every quote haha
If you'd do that in the Netherlands you'll soon be under water ;-)
He is rightly doing that though.
If you look at the 2018 version of the CS report ... Netherlands comes out roughly in the middle, so somehow in one year inequality jumped so many places? Bad data, bad interpretation. The real sin of the EE video is the evidenceless storytelling, though - may as well conclude "Well, Dutch people are tall, so their wealth tends to stay higher." Thanks for this!
That's a good summary of EE's work... bad data, bad interpretation, and unwillingness to state otherwise.
He created a video about Donald J. Trump's economics' policies. He concluded the video with "Trump is following through his economics' plan and that's good." While never mentioning all the negative effects of Trump's "Plan".... leaving Trade Agreements because they were multi-national instead of them being 1v1 hurts the US economy in the long term. Putting Tariffs on China, Europe, Canada and many nations only hurts the US economy... as one Trade Minister/Advisor said "we can do stupid too" before putting retaliatory tariffs on US goods.
EE's video makes it look like Trump is doing a good job with his "policies"... Yet, both are just uttering garbage.
@@aralornwolf3140 yet in your little mind tariffs on usa goods by every one of those countries is fine and dandy.
@@victorhopper6774 That's not what he said bucko.
Well the data on Dutch people being tall is quite robust so I’d like to see some evidence that doesn’t elevate the country’s wealth. Are they keeping money in their shoes?
At least you might have a real correlation between height and wealth in the Netherlands which seems to be more solid evidence than the EE video.
Absolutely brilliant analysis! Thanks for your hard work and excellent rebuttal. Much appreciated.
Dank je wel kerel!
This was the nicest I've ever seen someone thoroughly tear apart an argument. Great work!!
I had so much doubt about EE's video I kept thinking it was clickbait. Even as I watched it I was convinced that it had derived the assumption from a very distorted perspective. I just didn't know enough facts to dispute his claim until watching your video. But even then, you either have to really believe that taxes are evil, or totally oblivious to the state of the world to really think that the Dutch economy is the most unequal in the world.
Thanks.
I had the same feeling ... even though I'm an economist from the Netherlands... the research needed to disprove this all was quite a lot. That's because the original was based on some limited information and logical storytelling... just very shallow and therefore often wrong.
@@MoneyMacro Thanks for the research, pulling all the data together like that to definitively show what's wrong with it can be quite a lot of work, but it's very informative.
@@MoneyMacro that is how disinfo (or messages with that effect) works. And works. It just takes so much effort to get every claim verified, and to make something of the "spaghetti argumentation" that most people have a sense 'ok, whatever, if you say so, it seems you did a lot of investigation so...'. And thus it remains unchallenged.
Not that this is a proper argument, but the gut feeling is also completely off if you know the country. I'm Belgian myself, but many policies are shared or at least similar between the countries and if you follow the news you'll find that they face similar challenges.
It's just so obvious that the vast majority of the people are middle class. There are a lot of social systems that help and protect people. Wages are decent, even for jobs that don't require education, and even the high end don't pay ridiculous amounts until you get to the absolute top. People only really go into debt to buy houses, and everyone get a pension at an age when they're still young enough to do something with it.
Sure there is still poverty, but if I had to pick any country to be poor in, the Netherlands would be on that list. Similarly there are some extremely rich people. But if I had to pick any country to bring a fortune to, the Netherlands would definitely not be on that list due to the high taxes.
The EE video just makes no sense. Even if the actual numbers were correct, the reality on the ground would still be far from what those numbers show.
If you go just across the pond and visit London, you'll be immediately struck by how there are multiple societies in that city. It's just so obvious as well. I've never had that in any Dutch city.
@@LookingEastChannel Otherwise known as a Gish Gallop :)
So the Netherlands is just the country with the best data in the world 🤣
cheapest data
The Netherlands had also good/best data in WW II.
Regrettable enough, sadly
@@danijelandroid Both painfull and true
Netherlands is the most corrupt country.
I drifted away from the EE channel when I started getting the feeling he was a schill for laissez-faire capitalism.
Nice work on your re-buff.
There is a good amount of far-right money behind those channels. They always start with credible knowledge, gain some momentum and dump their bullshit. It is their way of fighting independent media.
Just curious, if EE blames capitalism for the wealth inequality in the Netherlands and proceeds to criticize the Dutch government for ineffectively taxing wealth, how is EE a "shill for laissez-faire capitalism?" I'm not trying to be tendentious, but what your'e saying doesn't seem to relate the situation at all. Although, I agree that EE is not a reliable channel.
@@sonayyalim good to know it's not just me feeling that way. Visual politik was another channel where I felt alienated after a while for similar reasons.
@@willjensen5595 In the video he basically argues that wealth equality isn't a problem because if it's so high in a country like The Netherlands (its not) where living standards are high then clearly it's a necessary evil and can maybe even be a good thing.
Word
Excellent video! I was really surprised when I saw the original, but this one clarified a lot of the points made in the other!
Excellent video. We need more like this where You Tubers are subject to peer review for the evidence or lack of it in their opinions.
Thanks for your contribution to a better educated society.
EE sounds angry about how “unequal” the Netherlands is - just watched that video before watching yours. Thank you for pointing out the lack of good research on the part of EE, which makes me wonder how well researched his other videos are. I am in the middle of writing a book, and struggled with one short, simple paragraph. Turned out I did not have the correct information; after I found it, writing the few sentences I needed was easy. I assume the same applies when putting together a RUclips video. Taking time for thorough research is important if you want to be believed.
Yes that totally applies to writing the scripts for these videos as well :). Same is for academic research papers. The most effort is spent on discovering how something works. Then, when you know, it seems obvious in hindsight.
I'm not an economist or econ student and I like EE's channel to get some info on these topics. Personally I think he's good faith. However, as a youtuber there's huge pressure to make a lot of videos to get sufficient numbers of views and the algorithm not nuking you. I think that may be the reason why he sometimes rushes his videos and his research for these videos can be poor/flawed
@@koentjuh782 I assumed that was the case in this response as well.
Let's hope we are right :).
But still the wealthiest 1% has 95% of all the capital in the world. Finally now there was introduced a tax on capital
@@lucaaz14 That would be theft.
This is an awesome summary, congratulations! Interested in more of your videos now :)
You did a great job investigating these economic issues further. Keep digging on those issues and we’ll done.
I lived 6 years in the Netherlands and always had the impression that it's a very equal country w.r.t. wealth, even more equal than my home country Germany.
There is a old tradition to not show off how rich you are.
You are not judged by your car or clothing, so most rich people just blend in. People of different classes interact regardless of the ammount of money on the bank.
@@Mocha. What do you mean it has no middle class?
@@RosesAndIvy Nederland is veel ongelijker.
Stop smoking that weed
@@qqqwark best weed you are just jalous
On 11:21 "mortgage repayments in NL. are tax deductible" is unfortunately incorrect. Only the intrestpayments are deductible.
You are right! I tried to address this somewhat in the 'the policies are often a bit more nuanced' comment on that EE bit. But, that being said, you are totally correct and I think that is an important part to highlight.
Correct. At 7:40 (in the original video), EE actually states this. Further, they state that some of these policies were in place "up until recently". Do they spin? Yeah, they do, but so do socialists.
Which is also true of mortgages in America too at least.
@@davidradtke160 indeed
Thank you for this. I remember being very surprised when the initial video came out, so it was nice to hear a reply.
Hello from Groningen!! Glad I came across this video as I had my doubts about the original video!
Goede video en duidelijke uitleg. Daarom is het belangrijk om alle feiten op een rijtje te hebben voordat een video wordt gepost.
I was a bit suspicious of EE when he claimed that the Netherlands was inequal. Good to know my suspisions were correct
If you read the comments on most of his videos there are plenty of people who point out all his inaccuracies…. in every video
ACCORDING TO THE WORLD BANK, y'all like to cry over everything, EE just explain what the banks said
do not reply dumb people if you actually saw the video the bank did not actually say that.
To be fair it was about 80% clickbait.
@@donotreplydumbpeople3866
No, Economics Explained said that Netherlands is the most unequal country on Earth.
Thank you for good research and explanation, I watch the EE video and found it puzzling.
Just recently discovered this channel. I’ve been following EE for a few years and it’s great to have someone who can present alternative ideas on their topics. It’s not that I want to disprove anyone’s statements, I just think it’s healthy to look at things from multiple perspectives at once 👍🏾
I've watched a few EE videos, but every time I walked away not really impressed. It always felt like a high schooler doing a presentation for class
It felt like someone had picked a statement to argue and would not be dissuaded from arguing that despite all the evidence pointing to the opposite of the statement.
this
I saw better presentations than theirs. At least a lot of students make research and show the evidence.
Whereas, EE has lots of time to produce each video and has multiple failures.
I would not really consider them failures as they seem to be concious choices to enforce his agenda.
Yeah not the high school part but I am less and less interested about it. Maybe if he will reconsider the time and schedule of his.
Do we remember when Wikipedia first emerged as a source for reference material and our teachers warned against using it as anything more than an outline? Yeah... now we have RUclipsrs who are financially motivated to put out whatever superficial content attracts clicks. Great video production & editing + catching topics and titles = popular content. Truth or at least objectivity be damned.
Good video, discussion and critiscisms are our best tools to together get a more precise understanding of economic.
Really appreciate the rebuttal. I loved his video and I loved yours. Constructive criticism is great.
The wealthiest 1% of Dutch households own one-third of the Netherlands' private assets, it is however hard to really know how much wealth people own as billions are locked away in tax havens.
I never clicked on a video this fast. Thanks for the upload. Cheers!
Haha awesome, thanks!!
This is such a great video for anyone working with data on how to treat data sources. Great Video!!
Thanks for an informing video, showing more nuance and a deeper understanding of the issues involved.
Good video. A while back someone made this 'most unequal' argument about the Netherlands to me. I didn't belief the data was correct and knew there had to be some errors made, but didn't have the time or resources to figure it all out for sake of correcting someone about this. Thanks for this in-depth explanation. If I ever come across this argument again, I know now what video to refer to!
Hehe great! That was one of my main motivations to make this video. So, I'm glad it can be useful in these situations.
EE really fell out of my favor with “the great labor shortage crisis” video where he more or less completely ignores that it’s not a labor shortage, it’s a wage shortage.
And a ‘Every ten years we have an economic bomb stealing all of my accumulated wealth so why bother just gamble on crypto’ problem too.
I haven't watched EE's videos so I might be fully wrong but ... it sounds to me like EE is making videos with a hidden right-wing agenda. Telling taxes do not help redistribute wealth, stating labor shortage for low earning jobs, ...
That and blimps replacing ships...
@@Morrodin182 That wouldn't be out of place on youtube tbh lol
@@Morrodin182 Seriously people, not everyone has a hidden agenda. I assume EE has formal economics training (as do I btw), and economists are not one homogeneous group who agree 100% of the time. Just like in any scientific field (yes, economics is a science :) not as strong as physics, but still), disagreement, peer review, etc. is important to push the field forward.
This was a great video! I learned a lot!
Thank you for this. It's always good to have dissenting opinions. Keep it up.
EE has made several premature videos. He just caught onto the segment earlier and became popular. Happy to see a response to one of his videos.
After their recent video about inflation, I'm far less generous about chalking EE's mistakes to just some simple mistakes/misunderstandings.
That said, I'm very glad that Unlearning Economics pointed me your way. I hope to see more high quality videos in the future though I know they're very time consuming to produce.
Thanks! I'll keep them coming.
On the inflation video, I did not see that one yet. Perhaps, it will warrant a response video of its own.
I'm quite concerned about the quality of inflation videos on RUclips in general. Very often they lack all nuance and just equate any money printing with inflation. I tried to address that issue in my video: "How to print money without causing inflation."
By the way I just watched the inflation vid. Have the following hot take. What do you think?
EE asks three questions:
1. When does inflation become an unsolvable problem?
As far as I can tell he doesn't answer this question.
2. Why do people think the USA is immune from these?
He states that this is largely because the U.S. is a reserve currency. I agree that this helps protect against a massive devaluation of the dollar and inflation that comes through that channel. But, that doesn't protect the U.S. from inflation caused by domestic overheating... Perhaps, he means that then there will be cheaper imports... he doesn't make that explicit.
3. What is the best way for people to protect themselves?
Borrowing to buy assets such as property ... yeah he has a point... e.g. for Weimar Germany although if an economy completely crumbles .... I mean I don't think buying Zimbabwean real estate was the best option 2 decades ago.
But, the biggest problem of the video... he states there is asset price inflation and that usually there is a very high correlation between CPI and asset prices (there is absolutely no evidence for this). So, he argues that we have asset price inflation (hence the title), and so this will soon spill over into CPI inflation.... This is very questionable since this has been the case for decades in most economies and hasn't happened.
@@MoneyMacro I'm an economist student from Brazil and would be very interested if someone covered the concept of inertial inflation of Bresser Pereira. Something that I don't see economists abroad covering at all and so important to understand hyperinflation in developing countries.
@@tazzioboca I just had a look at it. Very interesting. It seems to me that there is some overlap with the expectations channel of inflation in the sense that once people expect a certain inflation... there is a self-fullfilling prophecy as workers demand wages to keep up with inflation, the increased costs are passed on by companies and so forth. Is that right?
Thank you very much for making this.
By the way, this is the time when RUclips recommended me correction on video after watching some of EE videos. I’m glad, because nothing is worse than learning something incorrectly.
I found your channel while searching for videos on japan's economy and I've been binge watching the rest, your content is great. I also like watching EE, but I'm glad to see him corrected.
I saw that EE video and it was crazy. Actually unfollowed EE after that. Used to love watching their vids, but if they get that so factually wrong, how can you trust anything else they publish???
Good call. Trying not to be too pointed but EE definitely pushes a particular view in the presentation of his material, even using bad data if he needs to. Its unfortunate how popular channels that claim objectivity while pushing an Ideologically charged viewpoint are on RUclips these days. I majored in economics and philosophy and its a bit of an exercise in frustration watching channels on those two subjects these days.
Yeah you shouldn’t follow publishers that conflict with you world view or beliefs.
People nowadays really need to surround themselves with like-minded individuals, it’s the only way we can protect the truth.
Thank you for the video! This was very informative.
It's really great you made this video. Everyone who has seen the EE video should see this to clarify everything.
Thank goodness you made this video! I watched the EE video and it just felt so wrong but I was too ignorant to be able to counter the arguments. This makes so much more sense now.
That video came through my feed one day and was convinced it was clickbait (as a result, I never watched it). I mean, as a Dutch citizen, I know some things are tilting towards a less social society. However, the most unequal country in the world? Yeah, that wouldn't be possible considering how relatively good the poorest of people have it here.
You talked about his video in good faith, which is commendable, but I think his video is either just lazy research or politically motivated. Probably a bit of both.
I'm a bit confused to which video you're referring, with 'That video' and 'his video', respectively.
@@ericvandruten he means that the video of economics explained was a bit lousy
I agree! I think he wanted to be unexplicit about ee's political motivations, leaving them in the middle and let the viewers make up their own minds about that by showing the really poor cherry picked research. Simultanously he is spreading more open minded and socratic practices on a heavily polarising platform and still making interesting quality content! Really digging it
@@ericvandruten ruclips.net/video/Ot4qdCs54ZE/видео.html Deze moet je hebben. Wat mij betreft ook een erg Amerikaans perspectief van kanaal EE dat grote ongelijkheid de bepalende factor is voor zeer welvarende economieën. 'This inequality is the sign of a MATURED capitalist economy.' Nou heel grote ongelijkheid is juist slecht voor innovatie en startups, zeker bij een economie met een GINI van 0,91! Hahaha.
@@nathanm4444 dank je voor de link, Nathan!
Bizar dat er mensen zijn die een samenleving nastreven waarbij het merendeel van de bevolking in de grond wordt gestampt
Thank you for explaining this in a easy to understand manner.
Happy to be of service Kathy
Oh yeah sub well earned, came here from the EE vid, and instantly had a feeling things werent presented as is realy is. Especialy since i recently bought a house my self. Looking foward to more.
Er gaat niks boven Groningen!
Really enjoyed the video, your analysis seems more sound than that of EE. Also living in the Netherlands I could not understand that the Netherlands would be the most unequal country in the world.
But do you know what the wealth is of the super rich in The Netherlands. I am Dutch as well, we are not known for showing off like Americans or Arabs, but you do have the super rich in the Netherlands.
@@Churros1616 Don't step in the socialist trap of bashing anything concerning rich people. They do provide the largest tax revenue, for example.
No they don’t. They don’t have to pay anything for their capital.
@@lucaaz14 that's incorrect; your statement is false. Correction I misread your comment: the tax is not on the capital itself (that would be theft), but on the 4% assumed interest / investment gain on that capital. With the current interest rate going around 0%, it effectively is a capital tax.
@@ericvandruten can you explain why it is more fair to have tax on wages where people work really hard for and not on the capital someone inherets from their rich daddy?
Thank you for this video. I was really confused about EE's video, so this does clear some things up. I struggled to find where he got the info from. I was looking for World Bank data, but I needed to look at page 117 of a Credit Suisse report.
Thanks for the video. Almost all videos from EE that I have watched seem to me as easy attention grabs.
Lovely content. Could you please do a video on the economy of South Africa as I feel the EE video didn't even begin to scratch the surface. Thank You!
That Gini doesn't even seem to make sense, how does a single country 17 points over the average tip it when there's dozens of countries with many times lower the average???
Because GINI compares inequality within a nation. When comparing with the world it compares first world and third world. A country may be more 'equal' but still significantly poorer than an other country that is more 'unequal.'
68 upvotes on this comment 🤦♀️
I think there's a second issue, namely in that wealth inequality is, as a percentage number, not actually that interesting. Even if the percentage difference in wealth is very different, this doesn't actually say much. Wealth inequality is higher in countries with free education but higher taxes, compared to countries where parents have to save for their kid's education. It's also higher in countries with toll roads than countries with higher road tax.
Wealth should really be measured in practical living standards, tho that is hard to do. Compare the person who is richer than 90% of the population to the person who is poorer than 90% of the population, and see how they live. Then suddenly you'll see that the Netherlands does great. Like, that poor person still has access to health care, still has a TV, still has a decent house (government sponsored rent helps with this), is still able to eat healthily, etc. etc.
It's easy to see money as a number, and to some extent this is true. However, in countries that have more socialist policies (not that the Netherlands is extremely socialist, but still) the wealth inequality may seem higher, but if you look at what the poorer people are actually able to do, you suddenly see an enormous difference.
Amazing response, keep up the good work.
Really appreciate this. I'm a big EE fan but good to hear another side
Well done, Sir. I saw the EE video and thought many of the same points you have made. The whole picture must be analyzed.
good video. I don't know much about economics but getting a critic of a video I never questioned is eye opening .
Thank you for making this video. This video makes a lot more sense than the video that economics explained made. I hate to say it but there’s always been something in a lot of EE videos that doesn’t quite do it for me. At first i thought it was the lack of confirmation bias but I’m more than happy to challenge my assumptions but only if the evidence the new perspective is based on is reliable
Thank you for your real research on topic
Jeetje. Dit is niet 'gewoon' YT videootje, maar een compleet college "be careful with statistics' in een paar minuten. Bravo!
Klopt. Gewoon prachtig
i'm sorry what 😦
Je moet ALTIJD voorzichtig zijn met statistieken en zelf kijken naar de bron(nen), hoe die zijn geproduceerd, geïnterpreteerd, wat er uit is gelaten en wat er juist in is gelaten om een bepaald beeld te creëren. Eigenlijk een no-brainer, want dit leer je gewoon op de uni (en niet alleen voor statistieken).
Desalniettemin, erg goede video en duidelijk uitgelegd! :)
@@pequenoperezoso3743 she is speaking dutch translation: Jeez. This isnt just a 'normal' little YT video, but a complete college ''be careful with statistics' in a couple of minutes. Bravo!(Amazing!)
Welk college? Ik snap die kerel nog minder dan die ene van de EE video. Het commentaar in de EE video was verhelderend, dit klinkt me vrij onzinnig in de oren; die knaap weet heus niet helder uit te leggen.
Thanks for laying it out so clearly! I remember watching that EE video when it came out and how misguided a lot of the conclusions seemed.
Man, I just found your channel! Really like it.
I was about to watch the other guy's video but a comment lead me here. Great, level headed work. Keep it up!
Thank you will do
EE videos sometimes have a weird "taxes and regulations are to blame" vibe. It's not that obvious but once you've noticed it , it gets cringy...
Feels very... American? "taxes bad laws bad"
Taxation is theft
@@Romeo-le2ez hope it's ironic , or else it's moronic
@@mat3714 It's ironic to a certain extent, but I am curious as to why you think it's moronic
@@Romeo-le2ez so you do think it's theft so I'll go with moronic then.
To be honest, without knowing anything beforehand about wealth inequality, even the tone of the EE video was enough for me to think that they have an agenda and are pushing it.
@@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 OMFG, he is complete opposite of the free market. He stinks of regulations and goverment knows better.
@@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 I think he has a Masters in Economics. So somewhat better than the layman, but not particularly much.
@@elwinowen5469 I doubt that very much.
@@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 bruh he literally says that his favourite type of economies are big welfare Scandinavian models with high government regulation.
What even is their agenda though? Like as far as politics are concerned he is probably pretty close to this channel. I don't see an agenda besides exploiting RUclips algorithms and people's lack of information about economics allowing him to make videos on whatever.
i really appreciate this thank you, i would love to hear economics explained's response to this. I'm pretty comfortable with maths physics etc but economics has always been a nightmare for me. I am dutch born in new Zealand so i guess this has a special interest for me. I suspect ee has plenty of nuance in his understanding but I appreciate his generally nuts-and-bolts description of things. i would love it if he would respond
your command of the english language is astounding , i can pick up a few new words and expressions from your videos commentary , Dank je wel !
I really enjoyed this video and you explained everything so articulately. I am now subscribed!
Thank you. Very glad to have you as a subscriber!!
Done also
Excellent analysis Joeri! Inequality is one of the most pressing topics in today's societies, so you could even do a series on it (e.g. Piketty's argument and surrounding debates, the role of monetary policy etc). There is a real demand for nuanced, quality economic analysis on youtube - so this channel will blow up 😬 (don't burn out though)
I'm so glad the top comment on EE's video mentions this one. Didn't bother watching it and came here instead. I know nothing about economics and would have just trusted EE because he sounds convincing to someone like me who doesn't know any better. Thank you so much for debunking it! This is the best of youtube here!
I really appreciate how carefull you are to well represent EE's arguments.
Thanks!
That is some impressive data forensics ;)
I have been looking for a while for an ACTUAL certified economist RUclipsr. Looks like I finally found one!
Good explanation video - thanks :D
Also it is quite hard to determine wealth statistically as some of the most wealthy people don't "own" their wealth. It is often held by corporations, trusts, funds etc. This means that on paper it isn't their wealth.
Not only does this make it hard to measure, but also compare as the laws regarding such measures to avoid taxes legally differ a lot from country to country.
Adding to that, even measuring extremely large quantities of wealth is very difficult. To give an example, people like Bezos, Musk, Gates, Buffet, etc . . . Are among the richest in the world. But their money isn't instantly accessible. I mean, they have more money in liquid form than they could ever need for their personal use. But the vast majority of their billions is locked away in stocks and non-liquid assets like land, fine art, intellectual property, etc.
What is more, liquidating any sizeable portion of that wealth could itself effect its valuation.
And this is precisely why wealth inequality does differ drammatically from income inequality and why we should expect the rich to want to keep it that way
now we just need @EE to respond to this
feels like EE is just jumping on these numbers to push their political/economic views.
Jep
I had that sense too when I was watching the EE video.
An economist pushing an agenda. SHOCK that never happens
Also... the Netherlands being the only country with a gini index worse than the world average, should give an indication of how bs that list is. How can a country of 17 million people drag the average to 2nd to last place??? As far as statistics go, this should be all but impossible.
Had EE done any thinking about the list, he should have noticed this... I am not so sure that EE acted in good faith, I think his desire for a clickbait title got the better of him.
Just like this video
The statement of this video about how high taxes can solve inequality is very iffy
I kept feeling something was off with EE's vid, but couldn't nail it. This helps a lot!
Great Video. You have a new subscriber.
I watched the EE video and it went completely against everything I had learned previously about the Netherlands and inequality. The level of dissonance I experienced watching it was unreal
I remember the comment section of this EE video, lots of fun.
I remember watching EE's video and being sceptical. Thank you.
Great job with this content.