I trust Modrinth on this one, they have repeatedly shown that they have everyones best interests in mind. Theyll probably increase ads but keep them as unintrusive side windows like the current banners. hope im not wrong
To be honest one of the reasons i like modrinth so much is that the ads are literally just like: "hey can i interest you in this hosting service?" While youtube: "DOWNLOAD NOW, I SAID NOW!! SHADOW LEGENDS!! WHATEVER THE HECK PPL PAY ME TO SAY HERE LOL"
Hopefully, if they do this, they can generate enough money to keep modrinth running without needing more ads, but if they go the way of so many other companies trying to squeeze every last penny out of their customers, they'll probably increase the number of ads anyway :/
Yeah I hope so too but I think we can trust the modrinth creators and they said that the ads are not going to increase but just going to change place so they are more visible (in the navigation bar at the side).
If you don't want to, but still want to support mod creators, you can just disable your adblocker! Adverts on Modrinth aren't that in-your-face anyways.
Adblockers all the way, no excuses. I don't use the Internet to be advertised at, I use it to serve my own purposes. Of course, I also don't use modrinth, so the point is moot in my case, but still. I refuse to get advertised at, and I refuse to pay to have said ads removed too.
I am someone who loves my adblock but on sides like modrinth I know I can really help by disabling it. And as a almost 3 year long modrinth user I don't really notice the ads.
I will probably disable mine, knowing it's just one add, but if they increase the number of ads, or having them be all in your face like in curseforge, it's just more likely for me to re enable the blocker, than to use the subscription, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that, so it might be counter productive to increase the amount of ads, something for modrinth to take into account.
They released a blog post about it. They had to switch AD providers because their own was not generating enough to keep up with the huge growth of the platform. They will hopefully one day go back to their ad system in the future.
INFO: There will probably not be any more advertisements as KaiSore says BUT the ad will change place with a redesign of the website (in the navigation bar) so that it will be visible more often. Also they said that features are not going behind a paywall. A feature that I think will be coming to the subscription is a purple theme because a lot of people in there discord want it.
i hope not, i truly believe that modrinth is created so people could experience the best out of the modding scene, surely they know that by adding more ads or making ads more annoying it will just destroy all of their hardwork
Yeah if you don't have a big project you almost get nothing. For something like 5000 downloads over the past year and a half I have earned almost $1,80
@@TiboTorchcraft Modrinth gives out revenue based on page views, not downloads. Also, larger projects don't tend to make more money proportionally because they end up in modpacks which hand out less revenue.
What if modrinth added a system like youtube member ships? Like, you can become a member of a community around a dev you like, and you pay a monthly subscription, you get to test ealry stages of mods(like betas or so) and the 90% of the revenue goes to the dev, i dont think it would be exactly bad right? Like, you are not forcedto do it and you can help a specific dev you like a lot, it would give mod devs a lot more of mony probably and make them have an easier time living and having time to do the things they love(beacuse i dont think they could live out of this but atleast it would help)
Btw i have a question, why forge launcher and seemingly the new modrinth launcher need a premium account? Is it beacuse it would be illegal for them to allow cracked players to use them? If not then i dont see the point, most of the community plays on a cracked account as far as im concerned so you are lossing posible revenue(if they get some) from them
4:31 Modrinth had a Deal with Bisect and planned to add more Companies to that deal and eventually turn that into adrinth to allow anyone to advertise on modrinth, but that didnt work out and they chose to replace adrinth with Aditude for now
I just really hope that the developers won't start putting everything behind a paywall, because I've heard numerous times this story - "oh, yeah, it's just for supporting us. You don't get much, but we do give you *this*. A few months later half of the features are behind that paywall...
Hmm, well I currently have modrinth whitelisted in my adblocker due to it not being intrusive enough. This could change the moment the number of ads or the content of the ads become aggresive beyond acceptable realm.
I even forgot about the modrinth adds, but youyube.. tahts good, once you get premium there is no way back. I cant imagine watching a 30min vid and getting 2-3adds, forgot how it feels like
You both are 🤡 for paying for RUclips premium. You are PART OF THE PROBLEM. RUclips premium is only a thing because people like you actually buy it. Is it so hard to install uBlock? To install ReVanced? Literally $9.99 down the drain every month
10 minutes for me I think. There is also a new button in the update to refresh mods and there are a lot of bugfixes but no big new features. I would like to have a skin switcher build in if that is possible.
The creator revenue works differently on modrinth though. First, it counts how much the website has earned and splits the creator's share (90% of ad revenue and 50% of subscriptions). Next it counts all the downloads in the same period of time. Each creator gets their share of the profit proportional to how much they contributed to the total download count. One exception being modpacks, where their profits are additionally split between the mod authors.
Assuming they don't change the amount of ads currently on their website/in their launcher, but have this option available I think this is fantastic! We need to give mod creators more support!
IDC about that much since i used Curse Forge, but i also tried Modrinth this week and i found literally like 100 mods, so now i use both Modrinth and Curse Forge
I am actually not against this. Supporting auch a website is no easy task and if thay need more money, than sure. I belive thay are doing this in the best interest of the people
This is prob one of the best ways they can ad ways to give revenue towards creators. And it's not like some scummy subscription that is like youtube where most features new or old require it with creators maybe getting revenue but they don't even let you know. It's purely optional opt-in with no effect on creators or users. What I would kinda like to see if there were to be any benefit is maybe ways to view and download early previews of stuff with the subscription to an extent, like beta tests or prerelease updates. That or just having a convenient way to keep track of stuff like some sort or notification list, since most ppl getting plus are reoccurring users. Besides that I like it being just a good way to support users even more and I don't see how they can mess anything like this up when they state their intent of it before you can go the the page to purchase it.
I am a casual player and i love to experiment with performance mods but with Modrinth i was in heaven. I have a shitty laptop gtx 1060 6g and i5-8300H and i got in game with unlimited like 500-600fps at 12-16 chunks because mid-rage pc/laptop i can run smooth ( because i know how to debloat my windows 11 ) . I love the sodium creator like other ceators in Modrinth but sadly i don't havd a good financial situation at the momment to support them :( .
Ads are likely not going to increase, and if they do they'll probably not get annoying because Modrinth is not traded, so no investors, and I believe its backed by a non-profit.
Ads are so annoying. they're malware in a way. even though there is a subscription, ads will usually snake their way through the subscription wall, when the ads come modrinth will become quite buggy due to fake ads
That is not going to happen because that is not really the idea behind modrinth and then there would be less of a difference between curseforge and modrinth.
So like.. Ads on Modrinth weren't that obtrusive to begin with. Never have been annoying, kinda just tucked off without much hassle. I feel like people will just continue to go on, even with this new change.. Or probably just have adblocker if they do get annoying.
reminds of aternos, website is soo shity now, you have your cpu being eaten to 100% when accessing without adblocker, completely invasive when trying to put plugins/mods, são paulo servers are horrible
modrinth will add same ads as curseforge to both their app and website thats why it will remove ads imo its way too much for a simple ass modding platform
I absolutely wouldn't mind seeing more ads on Modrinth if it means that the creators of the mods get paid more! 😄 Sure, the site looks better with the current implementation, but the ads are most invisible. But the way they approach it will be important, a lot of people might see it as annoying and greedy
Mods should never be sold. If they are, it’s illegal and against the Mojang EULA. Plugins are a different story though. Made a full video about this subject recently: ruclips.net/video/TyBTwt4oJHc/видео.htmlsi=mcpSYjA8WPyFPGCT
I think the subscription is more focused on supporting creators. They needed to have more types of income and not only ad and besides that there are a lot of people that want to support creators. RUclips is more focused about the revenue, mostly because of google, and there subscription is more for the features.
You're using youtube that's filled with ads and trackers, and yet you will stop using a small website that has no trackers and only a few ads that actually generate revenue to creators?
The discord nitro argument is given a lot in there discord but they said it will not be like that and that features are coming for everyone without a paywall
have fun trying to do that without (assuming) 0 programming knowledge and maintaining it, remember that alot of software is open source so you can contribute to it and not so you can just make a hard fork and subvert the community when disagreement happens
I trust Modrinth on this one, they have repeatedly shown that they have everyones best interests in mind. Theyll probably increase ads but keep them as unintrusive side windows like the current banners. hope im not wrong
I also trust them and hope they make the right decisions going forward!
Their whole AdRinth platform is build to use ads following the "Acceptable Ads" standard. They will very likely continue to be unintrusive.
@@juniorwmg they had to stop using adrinth because they grew too fast
@@matteofeyaerts They are literally still using AdRinth right now, what are you talking about?
@@matteofeyaerts They still use adrinth, look at the bottom right of the banner.
To be honest one of the reasons i like modrinth so much is that the ads are literally just like: "hey can i interest you in this hosting service?" While youtube: "DOWNLOAD NOW, I SAID NOW!! SHADOW LEGENDS!! WHATEVER THE HECK PPL PAY ME TO SAY HERE LOL"
Fr
Fr
Fr
Fr
“can u buy modrinth+ plz? if not then ok”
Hopefully, if they do this, they can generate enough money to keep modrinth running without needing more ads, but if they go the way of so many other companies trying to squeeze every last penny out of their customers, they'll probably increase the number of ads anyway :/
Yeah I hope so too but I think we can trust the modrinth creators and they said that the ads are not going to increase but just going to change place so they are more visible (in the navigation bar at the side).
@@cape41 they stopped taking the VC funding when they figured the investors would want it to go in a more.. money focused way
yk what, im happy with this, mod creators deserve recognition and money and this is a good way to get it
Fully agreed with you!
i dont , i didnt ask or consent do getting ads shoved in my ace
@@justrad7637 use ublock then
@@justrad7637 that's what uBlock is for
@@justrad7637 it's the price you pay for free content
If you don't want to, but still want to support mod creators, you can just disable your adblocker! Adverts on Modrinth aren't that in-your-face anyways.
Fact, they are not bad at all honestly
Actually modrinth is one of few websites I don’t have Adblock on for
Adblockers all the way, no excuses. I don't use the Internet to be advertised at, I use it to serve my own purposes. Of course, I also don't use modrinth, so the point is moot in my case, but still. I refuse to get advertised at, and I refuse to pay to have said ads removed too.
I am someone who loves my adblock but on sides like modrinth I know I can really help by disabling it. And as a almost 3 year long modrinth user I don't really notice the ads.
I will probably disable mine, knowing it's just one add, but if they increase the number of ads, or having them be all in your face like in curseforge, it's just more likely for me to re enable the blocker, than to use the subscription, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that, so it might be counter productive to increase the amount of ads, something for modrinth to take into account.
I trust them honestly. Curseforge has so many intrusive looking ads, but Modrinth’s is so subtle you don’t even realise they’re ads, it’s incredible
Not only that but curseforge still gives less money to creators, with more ads than modrinth
they getting same ads as curseforge too
They released a blog post about it. They had to switch AD providers because their own was not generating enough to keep up with the huge growth of the platform. They will hopefully one day go back to their ad system in the future.
INFO: There will probably not be any more advertisements as KaiSore says BUT the ad will change place with a redesign of the website (in the navigation bar) so that it will be visible more often.
Also they said that features are not going behind a paywall. A feature that I think will be coming to the subscription is a purple theme because a lot of people in there discord want it.
there is now
ACTUAL INFO: they confirmed there will be ads in same/similar style to curseforge everywhere
@@justrad7637 No they don't
"The ads arent annoying enough for most people to buy it"
**Makes ads more annoying**
ye they will
i hope not, i truly believe that modrinth is created so people could experience the best out of the modding scene, surely they know that by adding more ads or making ads more annoying it will just destroy all of their hardwork
Glad i made the move to modrinth from curseforge. Definitely will consider supporting them with this.
they will implement ads same style as curseforge , makes 0 difference if u use one or the other soon
The ads are so non intrusive that they arent even part of ublock origin
so true, i remember reading a pull request in ublock's repo filled with disagreement of ublock blocking ads from modrinth
I think this is a good thing, mod creators barely get payed anything from their mods
Yeah if you don't have a big project you almost get nothing. For something like 5000 downloads over the past year and a half I have earned almost $1,80
because they are doing it as a fan project.
@@BlueSheep777 Are you saying that they shouldn't be payed, because it is a fan project?
@@TiboTorchcraft Modrinth gives out revenue based on page views, not downloads. Also, larger projects don't tend to make more money proportionally because they end up in modpacks which hand out less revenue.
@@apollounknowndev Yeah I know that, the page views are like 7000. But I just wanted to give that as an example
Modrinth for now just give you a feeling like WinRAR that has almost no differences whether you have subscribed to them or not
But you can't support creators with winrar XD
no , no they dont , they will add curseforge-like ads
@@justrad7637 Why are you saying that while no one has ever said that?
that's a good thing tbh, the creators deserve the help
What if modrinth added a system like youtube member ships? Like, you can become a member of a community around a dev you like, and you pay a monthly subscription, you get to test ealry stages of mods(like betas or so) and the 90% of the revenue goes to the dev, i dont think it would be exactly bad right? Like, you are not forcedto do it and you can help a specific dev you like a lot, it would give mod devs a lot more of mony probably and make them have an easier time living and having time to do the things they love(beacuse i dont think they could live out of this but atleast it would help)
Btw i have a question, why forge launcher and seemingly the new modrinth launcher need a premium account? Is it beacuse it would be illegal for them to allow cracked players to use them? If not then i dont see the point, most of the community plays on a cracked account as far as im concerned so you are lossing posible revenue(if they get some) from them
4:31 Modrinth had a Deal with Bisect and planned to add more Companies to that deal and eventually turn that into adrinth to allow anyone to advertise on modrinth, but that didnt work out and they chose to replace adrinth with Aditude for now
I really like the way Modrinth handles ads, and if I had the money, I would totally subscribe to this to support the developers more!
I just really hope that the developers won't start putting everything behind a paywall, because I've heard numerous times this story - "oh, yeah, it's just for supporting us. You don't get much, but we do give you *this*. A few months later half of the features are behind that paywall...
really hoping they don't pull a nexus mods and slowly make download speeds worse and worse for free users
i love how everyone is trusting them even though there is a very high chance we'll end up with an ad riddled thing like always
Hmm, well I currently have modrinth whitelisted in my adblocker due to it not being intrusive enough.
This could change the moment the number of ads or the content of the ads become aggresive beyond acceptable realm.
Yeah but they will not increase it and it will never be as bad as curseforge
I even forgot about the modrinth adds, but youyube.. tahts good, once you get premium there is no way back. I cant imagine watching a 30min vid and getting 2-3adds, forgot how it feels like
ive had premium since 2019, im not going back to ads, especially right now
You both are 🤡 for paying for RUclips premium.
You are PART OF THE PROBLEM. RUclips premium is only a thing because people like you actually buy it.
Is it so hard to install uBlock? To install ReVanced? Literally $9.99 down the drain every month
took me way more than 5 minutes to update
Same It was crazu
10 minutes for me I think. There is also a new button in the update to refresh mods and there are a lot of bugfixes but no big new features. I would like to have a skin switcher build in if that is possible.
@@KasaiSora Took me 5 seconds LOL
The creator revenue works differently on modrinth though.
First, it counts how much the website has earned and splits the creator's share (90% of ad revenue and 50% of subscriptions).
Next it counts all the downloads in the same period of time. Each creator gets their share of the profit proportional to how much they contributed to the total download count.
One exception being modpacks, where their profits are additionally split between the mod authors.
Not completely right. The revenue is based on page views not downloads.
I honestly don’t mind the ads at all if they’re as unintrusive as the ones we currently have
Assuming they don't change the amount of ads currently on their website/in their launcher, but have this option available I think this is fantastic! We need to give mod creators more support!
when i saw the thumbnail i said "huh, how is it going to have ads and be open-source at the same time?" im very curious about where this is going
what do you mean by that? open source as in modrinth being open source or the many mods in modrinth that are open source?
I forgot ads existed
I never hear people saying this is they are talking about youtube :P
the modrinth ads are so unobtrusive that i didn't even realize that it had ads until i saw this video
On the usual modpack that does not add anything special I earned on modrinth 10 dollars, I think with this subscription the amount will increase.
This is going to be good if we all support these creators we can help them so much!
modrinth be doing things the right way
IDC about that much since i used Curse Forge, but i also tried Modrinth this week and i found literally like 100 mods, so now i use both Modrinth and Curse Forge
Wait, Modrinth has ads? 💀
yeah, just not invasive ads like manywhere else
this is the reason i disabled my ad blocker on modrinth.On youtube ads are horrible and ruin the experience
always h-ad ;)
I am actually not against this. Supporting auch a website is no easy task and if thay need more money, than sure. I belive thay are doing this in the best interest of the people
So it's basically a donator sub? That's fine.
I completely forgot that modrinth has ads
@@John-i1r8r same bro, my ad blocker just removes everything
honestly this sounds really good to me as a cretor on the site more ads more money for use
they should make it a custom price starting at the original price fr
5 euros is actually not that expensive for a service but well i don't have any cash myself so maybe one day
Well I’m fine with them adding more ads as long as they don’t have as much as curse forge
remeber guys, people vote with their wallets
"couple months" more like a few hours after they updated the site
This is prob one of the best ways they can ad ways to give revenue towards creators. And it's not like some scummy subscription that is like youtube where most features new or old require it with creators maybe getting revenue but they don't even let you know. It's purely optional opt-in with no effect on creators or users.
What I would kinda like to see if there were to be any benefit is maybe ways to view and download early previews of stuff with the subscription to an extent, like beta tests or prerelease updates. That or just having a convenient way to keep track of stuff like some sort or notification list, since most ppl getting plus are reoccurring users. Besides that I like it being just a good way to support users even more and I don't see how they can mess anything like this up when they state their intent of it before you can go the the page to purchase it.
they changed the online website design
When are you streaming again?
thats honwestly a good thing
In new UI redesign modrinth added "normal" adds to the website. Not from adrinth.
I'm on modrinth like 2 times a month, I'd love to support them, but 5€ per month for that is crazy if you are not a poweruser (whatever that would be)
I think 5 euro'sis fair and you can also support creators with it wich is the main thing. I recommant reading modrinth's blogpost about the update
I am a casual player and i love to experiment with performance mods but with Modrinth i was in heaven. I have a shitty laptop gtx 1060 6g and i5-8300H and i got in game with unlimited like 500-600fps at 12-16 chunks because mid-rage pc/laptop i can run smooth ( because i know how to debloat my windows 11 ) . I love the sodium creator like other ceators in Modrinth but sadly i don't havd a good financial situation at the momment to support them :( .
I only downloaded the app because the site's buttons just... stopped working.
good that they have another way to make money now!
4:32 They have partnered with exaroton in the past, which is just a paid plan of aternos.
Interesting thanks for the heads up❤
I hope this doesn't mean modrinth will be covered in ads
Same, really hope they are careful with increasing their ads (if they do at all)
ATlauncher is best 🗿
@@Fr4XILES I trust modrinth.
I think we can trust modrinth. And they said the ad is just going into another place where it is a bit more visible.
Ads are likely not going to increase, and if they do they'll probably not get annoying because Modrinth is not traded, so no investors, and I believe its backed by a non-profit.
and thats why I use feather
Maybe there will be mods included to the subscription
the update broken stuff for some people lol (including me)
I now get access denied os error 5 or smth now
I’ve used moderinth for years and I just learned it has ads
Ads are so annoying. they're malware in a way. even though there is a subscription, ads will usually snake their way through the subscription wall, when the ads come modrinth will become quite buggy due to fake ads
That is going to happen probably, they have high standards to chosse a company to provide their ads.
modrinth, i trust you but, if you mess this up, you're cooked.
As long as they don't become the average article site amount of ads I think this is a good thing
That is not going to happen because that is not really the idea behind modrinth and then there would be less of a difference between curseforge and modrinth.
the website has a update :D
cell machine indev is literally cell machine premium i think
So like.. Ads on Modrinth weren't that obtrusive to begin with.
Never have been annoying, kinda just tucked off without much hassle.
I feel like people will just continue to go on, even with this new change.. Or probably just have adblocker if they do get annoying.
Make me happy
I thought this was serious, but then i see the upload date, you almost got me
21th of August? Is that a special day?
@@KasaiSora i saw 1st of april
reminds of aternos, website is soo shity now, you have your cpu being eaten to 100% when accessing without adblocker, completely invasive when trying to put plugins/mods, são paulo servers are horrible
WHAT??????,MODRINTH HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION
I saw that it was a video from you and instantly clicked😀 keep going you make my day
Thanks so much mate
@@KasaiSora legend
W or an example of enshitification
The site hasn't been working 😬
Wait. why only 50% of subscription money goes to creators and not 90% (like from ads)?
modrinth will add same ads as curseforge to both their app and website thats why it will remove ads
imo its way too much for a simple ass modding platform
lmao there is ads on modrinth? never saw that
I just like moderinth because I don’t crash as much and it’s pretty
i willl buy this mod+ thing so i can get my revenue
I have adblock disabled on Modrinth
Ok so it’s 90% in the ad but 50% when you buy it? Am I missing something?
I think it's 90% of the ad revenue but 50% of the subscription's
Yeah but the thing is 50% of the subscription is probably already more than you would give in ad revenue. Creators will earn more with it probably.
I absolutely wouldn't mind seeing more ads on Modrinth if it means that the creators of the mods get paid more! 😄 Sure, the site looks better with the current implementation, but the ads are most invisible.
But the way they approach it will be important, a lot of people might see it as annoying and greedy
They will probably make an option for creators when they are uploading a mod "Modrinth+ mod only" and the modrinth+ users could install this mod only
I get the idea, but this would be against Mojangs EULA as you are not allowed to sell any Mods. Therefore they can not.
@@KasaiSora would pirating paid mods be legal then
Mods should never be sold. If they are, it’s illegal and against the Mojang EULA. Plugins are a different story though. Made a full video about this subject recently: ruclips.net/video/TyBTwt4oJHc/видео.htmlsi=mcpSYjA8WPyFPGCT
No, because it is still pirating
They are not going to paywall anything they said and for sure not the buts because that is against the EULA like KasaiSore said
5$ still feel too expansive for the value it offers
bro is ntts but minecraft edition
I use prism launcher :)
Same. Prism is the best Minecraft launcher.
I used prism launcher before modrinth and while prism is good and works fine I like that the modrinth app has a better design.
its like a patreon or something
Kinda yes, though I think many more perks will be added in the future
Yeah it is patrean but for supporting every creator and modrinth haha
My game won’t launch anymore. I hate the new update. Messed up my game! None of them will launch
I dont understand: the launcher says creators get 90% and the website says creators get 50% of the revenue... Huh?
Yes, creators get 90% of ad revenue. But only 50% of the Modrinth+ Subscription
@@KasaiSora oh, that makes sense, thanks
Amount of ads will increase
Ublock users : oh no
Anyway
i dont think it's worth it cuz ads on modrinth doesn't really bother me.
True, and that makes me scared. What if they make the ads annoying to push people over
Its worth it if you want to support your favorite creators.
@@KasaiSorathen we riot
It's more of for support modrinth creator part, which if you able to do it, you should do
I think the subscription is more focused on supporting creators. They needed to have more types of income and not only ad and besides that there are a lot of people that want to support creators. RUclips is more focused about the revenue, mostly because of google, and there subscription is more for the features.
dafuq do you mean? Modrinth doesn't even have ads!
Only plus downloadable mods coming in the next 2 months
Nope they can’t. Doing that would break the Mojang EULA and be illegal. They would be taken down if they did.
@@KasaiSora that's a relief! Hope there will be no loopholes!
How to make ffa on server please make vedio 😢
Ok, from this moment I won't be using modrinth
why
You're using youtube that's filled with ads and trackers, and yet you will stop using a small website that has no trackers and only a few ads that actually generate revenue to creators?
@@UberSpah there is no ads on youtube in my country
@@RedStone576 at this point it literally becomes curseforge 2
...Sooo you just help creators, thats great! (unless they add more... ads ofc)
EDIT: I JUST SAW THE OTHER VIDEO BRUH
unless they make some features premium only it is not a problem but I hope they dont do like discord nitro
if it's only for cosmetic stuff who cares
The discord nitro argument is given a lot in there discord but they said it will not be like that and that features are coming for everyone without a paywall
Ads? Nope, not gonna switch to modrinth app.
I don’t think it’s those annoying pop up video ads but more like the banner ads on the side of your screen
Why on the thumbnail you choose the € money type? You are American or European? (im French personally that's why I ask the question)
I’m from the Netherlands and as we use € here it felt natural :)
Okay thanks for answering :)
A little late my answer 😂
5$ its fine for me, but i'm live in one particular country what have banned by visa and mastercard
That's sad. Are there no other options?
@@TiboTorchcraft no
Why not just fork the launcher which is open source and remove the ads yourself
have fun trying to do that without (assuming) 0 programming knowledge and maintaining it, remember that alot of software is open source so you can contribute to it and not so you can just make a hard fork and subvert the community when disagreement happens