Ram Mandir Impact on India's Republic I Modi, Mandir & Message I Elections 2024 I Barkha Dutt
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2024
- Barkha Dutt LIVE: Watch the Big Faceoff between Wall Street Journal Columnist Sadanand Dhume and Cambridge University Professor Shruti Kapila over the newly build and inaugurated Ram Mandir in Uttar Pradesh's Ayodhya.
"Why Did Nehruvian Secularism Fail So Spectacularly," asked Dhume in his latest WSJ column arguing that "India's Westernized Elites Miscalculated Depth of Hindu Religiosity".
In a column for ThePrint, Kapila wrote that the "Ram Temple Has Transformed India in Its Entirety" and that it is the beginning of a "Hindu State".
Watch the fierce debate with the two different perspectives.
#rammandir #narendramodi #rahulgandhi
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I am not a religious person, but it doesn’t mean that I am not a proud Hindu . I consider my self a staunch , radical Hindu than a religious jain.
Many of us are 😊
Spot on. They think all Hindus are religious, no a lot of us are just proud of our civilization and roots.
I don't worship idols but I'm proud of Ram Mandir. Jai Shri Ram❤
Dhume is absolutely right
I became a BJP supporters Precisely bcoz Congress version of secularism is only restricted towards Hindus while they did appeasement of ultra orthodox muslim
Reform Hindu society as much as one want, but dont target hindus alone.
India Hindu Muslim relation is not similar to other majority n minority relation.
In India Muslim ruled over hindus.
So basically it was muslim hate that made you a BJP supporter. shame shame puppy shame.
What if congress promise you to appease regular muslims and not the ultra orthodox muslim ?
This is the common feeling,,, I would say that even the Muslims have been cheated upon the Muslim elites. This is why the social economic indicators are worse for Muslims,,,
@@odomangulati7079 1st. Its discrimination towards hindus n appeasement of muslim made be BJP supporter. Hindu who face centuries of subjugation under islamic rule dont deserve that, just like how Dalits dont deserve discrimination after what they faced for centuries, n will not tolerate appeasement of manubadi
2nd. It is second nature of congress to do muslim appeasement coz that is their vote bank. I still not learned why hindus who voted them since independence became anti congress. When a hindu attack muslim congress go crazy, but when a muslim attack hindu congress ignore n they want hindu vote
@@odomangulati7079 first understand what he is trying to say, he never said he hate Muslims he critisized congress politics and its concept of pseudo SECULARISM.
@@odomangulati7079silly argument.
For some people it is fine if Christians go to Church every Sunday or Muslims go for Namaz every Friday and observe Ramzan. But they have problem with religiosity of Hindus. The moment Hindu starts 'exhibiting' his religious inclination, ' secularism' comes in danger. In North we call it Vidhva Vilap, Mourning of a Widow.
informally we call it RaRa #IFYKYK
Except that a widow has a reason to mourn
What reason do these "boutique liberals" have?
@@yashsonune4391You mean to say, Ra-Ro?
Because we are not assertive about our religious identity.
The Metaphor Vidhwa Vilap is perfect how librandus deprived and Majority of Hindus for displaying their religion but supporting even terrorist act by jihadis for vote bank.
Talking for so long without making any sense is actually an art
And this lady without eyebrows has mastered that art form
🙈🙉🙊🤦🤦😂😂😂😂
@somachakrabarty1634 😂😂😂 good one
Very true.. I did not actually understand many points she tried to make
Spot on 😂
It is one thing to provide a substantive comment. Yet it is quite another to make sexist comments denigrating a woman's appearance. Is that all the substance you can muster?
The sad truth of India has been that the Hindus who are inherently plural, tolerant and open to reforms were beaten down and divided in the name of caste, but the Muslim and Christian religions who are are inherently exclusivist, regressive and intolerant were aggrandized and appeased. These two minorities can worship whoever they want, but they must accept their cultural Hindu heritage and therefore indirectly the principles of pluralism, tolerance and progressivism.
It is just a matter of time. Hindus too will line up with the others. I am appalled at how we are celebrating the destruction of liberal democracy. Perhaps India is not ready.
@@dockalra You're free to be appalled at your own hallucinations but I tend to trust the wisdom and heritage of the Hindu collective conscience completely.
@@elborrador333 when we were growing up, we used to be proud to call ourselves Indian and celebrate our diversity and cultural heritage. You are converting us into Hindu Indian, Muslim Indian Christian Indian, so on and so forth. That is the tragedy of India.
@@dockalra No flipping clue what you're going on about to be honest. I am not converting you or anyone else into anything, you're mistaking me for Islam.
@@dockalraindian cultural heritage is hindu cultural heritage. Maybe you forgot that part. Also muslims absolutely must reform. There is no ifs and but about this. Its mandatory.
Mr.Dhume got it spot on. Ms.Kapila hasn't understood either the debate or the problem! And that's exactly the issue with 'liberals'.
LOL. Dumbe thinks Liberalism is a "christian" idea and alien to Hindus. 😂😂 and wants us to "convince" him otherwise. 😂
The sheer Hubris and arrogance is astounding.
Just today Hindu were DEINED permission to build a a new temple in the west Orange rural settlement of Gotha. 🤣🤣🤣
Meanwhile churches are coming up like weeds all over India with its 2% xtian population. Just pick any google map of India and give a search for churches vs Temple in India to recognize the absurdity in Dumbe's "understanding".
You took the words right out of my mouth.
So true......
Christian democracy with church dominance is acceptable in west but the complain they raise in greatest democracy in India
100%
Dhume is pretty much spot on... while shruti kapila is mostly wrong.
Shruti, Ma'am, you concede that passing the law to not allow Shah Bano or any other Muslim women get maintenance was a turning point. Turning point it may be but it did not happen as a one occasional mistake by so called Nehruvian secularist project. This was a culmination of a series of appeasement and promoting fundamentalist elements among Muslims.
The first appeasement was done by Pt. Nehru when he introduced only the Hindu Bill and there were two personal codes, the India code and the Muslim code. I can understand where Pt. Nehru and Babasaheb are coming from,,,, but again there is a dent in secularism in the initial days.
The Hindu society needed reforms big time and Pt. Nehru delivered it. The Muslim community needed it as well, and the result is very well visible now.
The difference in the two communities is very well visible in large aspects.
@@piyushagarwal1350 Hindu society is pluralistic, broad and self corrects itself from social malaise every few centuries. It did not need a hindu-hater to reform itself. There is nothing that Nehru do except execute anti hindu policies and made them systemic through education or I should correctly term it as propaganda
Western accent may make you erudite, however, being erudite is not equal to being विद्वान.
Disagree, just because someone has a western ascent. Doesn't mean that she is erudite.
Her anger has destroyed her ability to comprehend the issue.
Just look at her body language.
It's almost as if she wants to strangle Sadanand.
Bohot sahi kaha.
@@pratyushojha na Ojha ji naa
Join iftar party but persuade the president of India not to go for the pran prathistan of Somnath temple. You will face the consequence of vote bank pokitics and pseudo secularism
Not only joining Iftar party but also visiting the tomb of Babar in Afghanistan. Of all people Babar? Outrageous!😡
Great debate. Coming from an IITian who is kattar political Hindu. Mr. Dhume has got it right. Prof. Kapila it's ok. It will take some time but it will sink in eventually. The masses have spoken. What you see in the Gandhi supporters is the churning of elites. India has fundamentally changed, for the better.
So you agree that individual liberty is a xtian idea and not Hindu ? 😂
Shivaji Maharaj OUTLAWED slavery (of Hindus) in 1677 (by MUSLIMS). 156 years before the christians grew a conscience and paid slaveowners millions of pounds in compensation for giving up their slaves. 🤣🤣🤣
It's all campaign against Hindu soft power. We are winning slowly. ☺
Kapila pashu aahar
@@jaihobhaiya 😂😂 good one
Shruti is lining withe the colonial thinking. I do not think India will ever go back to Nehruvian secularism and honestly there is no need to. The only thing that needs to stop is mistreating poor Muslims. That needs to stop!
Sruti ji, Congratulations , You are the definition of Hippocracy,
She is one of Pappu's advisers expect that. ,
Shruti has lost it, she is laughing like a psycho.
Prof kapila,is the lady,who invited the great intellectual,pappu Gandhi, to London. To one of her questions,our pappuji took the longest pause in the history of mankind to answer. This lady like a considerate mother consoled him n asked him to take more time to think for an answe.
Shruti is an over confident arrogant snob who has an empty cranium. Because she is empty, she makes a lot of noise with her mouth.
😢😢😢 Han, yehi pyaar hai......... Did Neru play pungi while Ram burned ?
Accha ye wo h ...hhahaaha ab smjh Aya itna dumb kyu h ye
Don't preach secularism pls to India anymore ..it was added cleverly and di not exist earlier
children of Mculay carrying the "White mans Burden" of civilizing the natives. They are worried about us reverting back into savagery. 🤣
More like added by force ... without discussion...both secular and socialist ... just to please the communists @ that time ... coz Indira gandhi was close to them
It was not added cleverly, it was added deceitfully and infact we should ask for its removal. Bharat should not be a secular state
Of course Bharat/India should be secular bcoz people of all religions fought for its independence. So BHARAT INDIA equally belongs to us all collectively not just to one class.
@@yolandadesa250 LOL. Muslims who "fought" collaborated with the British to create a SEPERATE MUSLIM HOMELAND called East and West PAKISTAN.
Jinnah was "employed" by the British Home office which is why they have REFUSED to release 13 of his official Letters to the British.
So spare us the Kumbaya. No more crocodile tears for haters and bigots wearing the burqa of islam.
A debate with no other side is not a debate ! Everyone including the moderator seems to think what has happened in india is sub optimal. I’m sorry but the people of india think it’s the best thing that could have happened. You needed some like swapan, j Sai deepak or Anand ranganathan on the other side here.
You have to be an idiot to think of this as a "debate". This was a jerk off in an echo chamber.
True. Though it’s more an internal debate from their side to see what went wrong with their ideology, and while they miss the mark at times, the guy really does make some very valid points. It’s interesting.
You said it.
Jai Sai and Dr Anand, I don't think, would ever agree to come to Burkha 's show.
Thanks, it is weird that some people in the comments seem to think Dhume is NOT a left liberal. This is how these lefties insert their opinions, they make it look like they are on your side and then show true colors.
Watching emotions & facial expressions of Shruti kapila....I am gonna vote BJP for more 4 term atleast... this people seating in foreign countries and want to make decisions of our day-to-day life..beliefs... religious practice...
INDIAN Independence needed the backing Pious Hindus. Mr Gandhi smartly used his pious image to amass the practicing Hindu masses support. Interestingly post 1947 Pious Hindus were thrown under the bus. Hindus were used by the elite as use and throw group. It worked from 1947 to 1989. Post that Hindus started their political grouping in BJP. So in 25 years from 1989 to 2024, Hindus have managed to occupy the main political space. It feels quite organic and natural.
Hinduism is the operating system of this land on which secular app is running..lol
Frankly the secular App needed an upgrade to make it more native
Shruti kapila expression are quite wild. She can try to meet Ektha Kapoor and seek role in SAAS BAHU serials...lol
Shruti kapila low on IQ but high on Facial expression....ROFL
You have understand the root of this issue... Look where she is working, it's a western university. It is very well known in the West that these universities have become a den of ultra leftists. The lobby is so powerful that one absolutely cannot get a job in these universities unless they prove their leftists credentials. So I'm not surprised by the position she has taken.
The problem is that we don't assert our religious identity forcefully like other minorities in the west do, so we are always perceived as weak and submissive. And people like Shruti take advantage of this weakness.
She is everything except Indian servile to Islamists going by what she said and not said.
Awesome Debate, Sadanand Sir is spot on! This academic understanding of Shruti ji is exactly the reason why liberals are losing
Sadanand is neo convert into tolerance for the BJP. Remember that.
Shruti kapila expression are quite wild. She can try to meet Ektha Kapoor and seek role in SAAS BAHU serials...lol
Shruti kapila low on IQ but high on Facial expression....ROFL
Shruti, talks about IITians etc are championing religiousity but the breed of such people are now increasingly coming from wider strata of the society, from vernacular schooling, tier 3 and tier 4 districts, brought up in religious India that Sadhanand Dhume is referring to. She sounds more like academic theorist and superficial in the understanding than having understanding of the ground reality of larger India.
Duh. No kidding. 😂
He is their armchair expert on India, just like their professors of "oriental studies" who are experts on Hindu(ism).
I just fukcing love the meltdown😅
Right? Comment sections always lift my mood
Me to..just came here to see the melt down
Shruti Kapila says, that secularism is regulation of religion and politics, and le Pt. Nehru: I will regulate Hindus, Muslims will regulate themselves.
People from where Christianity is state religion are talking abt Indian democracy. Lol. Why king is Christian in UK, why not call him Raja, because of which I Hindus of Britain are feeling suppressed and not represented well in democracy.
Lol .. so true
Didn't you hear Dumbe say its because western liberalism is a christian gift to the world ? Now say thank you sahib and sit down.
King is the head of Anglican/English church...and they preach India
Not Christianity just the Church of England. If you are Roman Catholic you can't become king/queen.
@@odomangulati7079ghanta be chup reh bilkul bakwas mat kar kis basis par aya tha renessance karne ke Baad bhai yha history sab padh ke bethe hai bewakoof koi nahi hai samjha 😊
Miss Shruti seems bitter because Bjp is in power.
Not hard core godi media but soft godi media . Good luck to her 😂
She is Lodi media😂😂😂
Dear Barkha . You should have brought a different speaker to debate with Dhume. While Sadanand is spot on, I don’t think Kapila other than her forceful speaking style could grasp the issue. In fact she appears to be as clueless as many of the westernized Indian elites about Indian version of secularism and the discontents it has created to popularize Hindu nationalism.
I was born in India but lived in the UK for much of my childhood. I studied in Cambridge University, and naturally, speak English great. Mind you, many of my friends, girlfriends, teachers etc have been English/British. Despite that all, I believe in Hindutva. It’s not about how Westernised you are, it’s about what you identify as, and what your view of history is (1000 years of war between Hindus and Muslims vs before the British, Hindus and Muslims lived in peace, and the latter did absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever). If you identify as a proud Hindu, and take the former view of history, then add to that the fact that many Muslims of today glorify the tyrants of the past who you view as your versions of Hitler, and that the symbols of your oppression (Kashi, Babri, Mathura) all stand today, it’s natural which side you will support. And the final nail in the coffin will be if you are fed a narrative that nothing bad happened in the past and Muslim invaders did nothing wrong. That’s what my ‘secular’ parents told me as a kid, then when I grew up and read history (always was something I enjoyed) that was the turning point for me becoming, well a sanghi as some would call it. Albeit a very westernised one. So it’s more nuanced that westernised elite or not, rather what you identify as, and what your view and understanding of history is.
Vinay doesn’t mean decency. It means humility.
Technically yes, but the context in which it was said meant decency (among other things).
Shruti is talking like a Congress spokesperson. Non sense she is talking about.
mam fault line is india was partioned on the basis of relegion muslim got what they wanted but does hindus got what they wanted.partioned is the base of these thing .earlier there was no right wing media but with social media we get to learn lots of thing our history
Which is why she invited the Academic and Media gatekeeps of "truth". 😉
They don't want the social riff raffs to pollute their "idea of India".
Surprisingly, those Muslims who voted for separate nation- Pakistan, did not go to Pakistan. While those Hindus who came back were treated badly by Gov, their properyies in Pak were confiscated, properties of those few muslims who went, were transfered to Waqf or kept as such. Gandhi wanted them back. But he didnt care for Hindu refugees.
How wonderfully & calmly Dhume explained !
Yes, that is his only saving grace. Remarkably calm for somebody with so little facts.
They are all missing one fundamental point. Hindu is not just a Religion. It's a Civilization.
I myself is not very ritualistic Hindu, does it make me less Hindu ? No. I'm a hardcore Hindu and can go every extend to protect my Civilizational identity. This Ram Mandir is resurrection, rejuvenation and rebirth of a Civilization.
That's the main point my brother inko kon samjhaye bhai 😊
Shruti doesn't even want to listen the question being asked, she just want to say what she memorised before coming to the debate
Shruti is argumentative,heckler & biased
Sadhanand is winning the debate hands down🎉
How can you call this a debate when there is no other side sorry but I think you are mentally unstable
Yes she is completely out of touch no reasonable answers
The "pluralism" can never work in India as long as dominating forces of Islam (also christians) emphsise on the centrality of "no other except Allah"...
It will, as long as India is Hindu majority.
Ms. Shruti has got it all wrong
I think she knows nothing about India or its culture
Not convincing & you seem to be in hurry to denounce everything Indian
Shruti is an over confident arrogant snob who has an empty cranium. Because she is empty, she makes a lot of noise with her mouth.
Who is Nehru? and what is the sanctity of Nehru that we Hindus need to adhere to or follow his ideology ????
So if there are no librals in the Muslim Community it is Hindu's fault
Construction of Ram Temple is the beginning of end of 500 years of pain , humiliation, and bullying faced by Indian civilization ❤❤🙏🙏🚩🚩..
The Mughal Invaders could have completely destroyed the Mandirs and constructed the Mosques from the base altogether , but they intentionally build mosques over half razed temples so that they could make the Locals feel bullied and humiliated on their each and every breathe.
And eventually at some point they will get demoralised and convert to Islam.
So the torture that Indians faced was not just physical but also psychological.
And these half razed temples having domes on top is symbol of that bully.
Now that we are Independent, it's our duty to get rid of these symbols of bully.
It's more cultural revival than religious sentiments of the masses. Even atheist people celebrated the temple as a symbol of Indian valus
28:33 if Muslims do not vote for B.J.P or elect the BJP Muslim leader to loka Shaba, How come that is a problem of B.J.P ? . Muslimes also must vote for B.J.P
Hindu assertiveness will not harm anyone but will only protect against persecution.
Dhume crushed the two confused pseudo secularists with his sharp arguments! Well done Dhume 👏👏👏
Who said Dhume is not a secularist ?
Absolutely , Sadhanand is spot on
🙃
In new India ....there should be no place for such elites who still suffer from colonial hangover ... and ashamed of Hinduism ....
Quite engaging discussion. Thanks. Happy to see deep religious nature of indian society coming to the fore in it. But definitely you again missed the elephant in the room. Rise of Islamic extremism and political islam in last half a century in india and globally. This has also shaped evolution of indian secularism as a counter force.
Dhume concluding remarks -- "Onus is on hindu nationalist/BJP to prove that they can come with alternative that makes Hindu and Muslim equally happy"... Well i wish i would be on the panel but i would say get lost. We are not here for litmus test to prove other races... Pls get lost 🙂for us/US
It is not a Hindu first policy, but a re calibration of Hindu Muslim relationships, where for the first time, Hindus don’t have to be embarrassed and scared to be Hindus
Hindus not having to be embarrassed and scared to be Hindus is the very DEFINITION of "hindu first".
Its not a naturally accepted norm for Hindus and goes against the 2000 year tradition of abrahamic religions.
Perhaps, but it's certainly manifesting itself as Hindu first in the streets, with no visible attempts by the govt to course-correct that.
@@pierrefitter LOL. Why would the govt. want to course correct that ? 😂
I don't see Europe course correct White christian first policy.
In which case I have to ask: what's special & different about the so-called "civilizational state"? Seems like just another label for 'majoritarianism'.
@@pierrefitter lol. You are free to ask anything you want. Its a free country.
We are not seeking your "approval" or validation to be a civilizational state.
Nor do we care much for labels from bigots.
So how does it feel to be so unimportant and insignificant ?
India would have better position in terms of socially, democratically and economically if Nehru listened to Dr. Ambedkar and Patel. As Ambedkar ideas would have settled social problems India still facing and Patel’s plans for settling Border issues with neighboring countries India still facing.
Very sharp observation by Barkha "If the baseline sentiment didn't exist, there would be no political movement"
17:48 Bharkha got this.. it's corrosion of so called secular idea filled with Politics of "Tustikaran/appeasement".. 😏
Mr Dhume was spot on he sensed it and shared his thoughts, miss kapila still believes wat she thinks is what secular mindset is all about, plus she finds karwachauth regressive, she didn’t use the word but still shared where she comes from, she should brace herself coz many more bumpy roads ahead of this kind of mindset
It is ironic that both participants in the debate are sitting in countries which are based on Christian values and finding fault and debating what is happening in India.
The Language of the liberal class is so far away from the English speaking Indian majority.
As the interaction among the various castes increased and caste discrimination decreased Hindus had more commonalities among themselves it started to build political Hindu constituency.
Please google article, "Limpieza de Sangre and the origins of the Caste system"
I agree. Savarkar was right. Ghandhi and Nehru were wrong.
1) Appeasement of Muslims is one of the major concerns for Hindus which Congress party is accused of.
2) We are all in for equality of all. Uniform Civil Code should have been implemented a long time ago.
3) The superiority complex of so called elites is very repelling.
Mr. Sadanand pls discuss waqf, hope you might be aware or you intentionally become ignirant or talk abt Kashmir or plunder made by Nehru in kashmir, tibbet, north east.
*34:20** is the meltdown moment, realization that Power is gone, now you can't change anything* specially when the Congress Party itself is in tethers & disolving, has no direction or ideology, polity has changed.
one thing for sure, these so called experts with their fake accents don't have a single clue about middle and poor class Indians.
Every individual in Germany pays a church tax
They have an option. If you wanted to be counted as a Christian you have to pay the church tax.
About 50% don't pay. This was in about 2009.
Better to change Name of Rahul’s latest yaatra to “I.N.D.I Alliance” thodo yaatra 😅. Most of the parties are leaving this alliance now.
Ms Kapila came across hurried, nervous and loud while Sadanand was relaxed and never lost his train of thought. Sadanand is spot on about Nehruvian secularism, in that it was a bold move but it had limited chance of success, given the underlying religiosity of India. And absolutely, powers that be of the day looked the other way when it came to reforms/self-regulations by minorities. That said, Sadanand also agreed that the current regime is "Hindu-First" and so I found his views more balanced. Ms Kapila came across as someone sitting to a stand and looking at the problem via a textbook chapter.
Indian pluralism has always existed based on the religious & cultural ethos of the Hindus as stated in the Rig Veda "The Rigveda statement "Ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti..." ...the Truth is one..the Wise call it by different names.. is what has always kept India plural through the ages. To imagine, therefore, that it is some sudden importation of the English word 'secular' into our Constitution which has somehow equalised the treatment of all religions in India is ridiculous.
I Concede ❌ We can all agree ✅
😂 Kapila se like that MBA grad who is zero on knowledge but 100 on speaking.
Dhume is perfectly spot on
He hit the g spot. I could hear the collective orgasm.
Barkha,
I switched on to this conversation due to the wonderful title but I see a total disconnect of both your panelists with the actuals on the ground.
The 'Abroginal -Indian-Elite' has survived all Bandit invasions which were or got converted into religious invasions.
This elite was victimised then & is being ignored now.
However it is this majority that's showing signs of resurgence in a form of secularism that's intrinsic to it.
Sorry, I'm disappointed it's the same thing again & again, old wine, Ma’am.
I leave & hope for some invigorating discussion next, by you.
Mr Dhume got it right. Unfortunately pseudo liberals will never listen to him. We did not want to go to the right to this extent. It is that there was simply no choice but to go this far to bring change because pseudo liberals were stonewalling it. Infact i am not even religious yet from a strictly logical point of view what the BJP argues is more fair and balanced.
For decades the pseudo liberals did not listen. Chances and time was given and yet they did not listen. Thats why indian society including moderates decided to abandon the pseudo liberals.
Shruti just knows English.
Secular state with a places of worship act
I have noted that you are not happy about emerging Bharat. We are witnessing the most pivotal event in India/Bharat’s socio-political history after 1200 years-the resurgence of a civilisation which continually fought for its identity, made innumerable sacrifices to defend its philosophy of humanity, ethics and principles, and persevered to reach the righteous end, using righteous means. Pran Pratishtha of Ram Mandir at Ayodhya, on January 22, 2024, was a triumph much bigger than any other socio-cultural victory in the last 12 centuries of our struggle for existence. Jai Siya Ram!😢
Blasphemy !!!
They will never understand this. Never
These guys are forgetting Mahatma Gandhi who actually led the freedom movement, it was not Nehru. Nehru was just a second fiddle. Gandhi was a very religious person.
Shruti is debating like someone whose eyes are closed and is asked to shoot arrows!! She's shooting left and right without any focus or aim
Which were the parties which opposed the candidature of Dr. KALAM as the President of India?
Both Dr. Kalams and Yakub Memon (terrorist) funeral was on the same day.
Which funeral had a HUGE procession on the street ?
Upto 26:00 min Shruthi mentioned rights based, where does she see a compromise on rights based constitution in present regime ? When rights are Same to all do the optics matter ? If welfare schemes are same ensuring representation would mean yet another quota / reservation system. There has to be a point when reservation system ends and it is merit based. Look at UAE , which guarantees right to worship but has Islam as the official state religion .. why does it have to be hard ?
THE RISE OF THE HINDU NATIONALISM
Many tears are being shed about the dilution of the secularism in the country and the rise of the Hindu nationalism. Bharat has always been a deeply religious country. However, under the Nehruvian secular dispensation being unapologetically Hindu was akin to going back to the dark ages. A parallel would be when Marx, Engels, and Mao sought to remake their societies into communist/socialist paradises. Once the State oppression was removed, the societies returned to their capitalist/free enterprise nature. But, Modi has channeled the innate Bharatiya religiosity into nationalist fervor as well; hence, the rise of the Hindu nationalism. But the rub is, what does one do with the 20.2% non-Hindus? Does this group vanish into the air. My feeling is that Bharat has no option but to be secular, i.e.,keep the religion in your puja room.
In India secularism is for Hindu while Muslim feel entitled to blatantly practice and believe sharia .
More than anything people like Shruti make me vote for BJP stronger.
An individiual, the British writer George Holyoake coined SECULARISM and not a world or societal concept. Secular and secularity derive from the Latin word saeculum which meant "of a generation, belonging to an age" or denoted a period of about one hundred years. the word 'secularism' to describe Bristish approach amd carried on by Nehure , introduced by Indira and left oriented for personal morals, to philosophy, and to the of society and politics. So its no use to present world in our culture or Bharat The new India needs UCC and identity of our originality and God.
This was a class on "oriental studies". 😂
Individualism is at the core of Hinduism, hence we have the idea of Tapasya and retreating to the mountains for meditation
The Hindus should definitely adopt more of their religion like understanding the Gita and their rituals..
Both the speakers completely ignored the point that the responsibility of inclusion lies with Muslims - not only India, what about Italy, France, Netherlands and many more countries - why all the responsibility is given to others.
It's one sided talk.
I can only say :
Tel lagaa le Dabur ka
Naam mitadiya Babur ka
Interesting discussion.
There seems to be societal changes, worldwide and across most cultures.
There's more if Tribalism, search for Identity, Spirituality etc.
And social media and regular media (500 tv channels I india vs 1 in the 70s) have been influential
TRUTH is now more easily available due to internet so the older gatekeepers of truth feel frustrated by their insignificance.
Is it a bad thing?
@@PS-ej2xn there's upside and downside to these changes.
From political arena, has more negatives than positives.
Witness the trump era and the current situation here.
Tribalism, othering, polarization isn't good for any society
@@saurabbbhardwaj1930 Why do you get othered if Hindus want their temples back in their own land? 🤔
The hate and prejudice that Kapila has for one community in India is so blatant and obvious. How can such people claim to be intellectuals .. The change in India is that more and more people can see right through the bias
Dhume is right but he assumed that ppl he interacted with were not religious. Well Hindus didn't wear religion on their sleeves but in the confines of their homes there was always a Mandir in every house. The reason could also be that they were made to feel ashamed. But once the awareness came about the injustices of the past about how our mild nature is being taken advantage hindu assertiveness came. But what's wrong we all preach that we must stand up for ourselves, have self respect, we must be who we are and not be afraid to express ourselves. Well if these preachings are right then Hindu assertiveness is justified, but it's also benign because of the core Hindu ethos of compassion, pluralism, diversity, inclusivity, spirituality. The Hindu scriptures never guide Hindus to expand, convert, invade. The principles of Ram Rajya was compassion, justice, truth sacrifice, selflessness, commitment towards duty.
What is wrong if Hibdus are making temple after winning case in supreme court, Sadanand kibd of peple deprived of freebies which they were used to in congress regime.
Shruti is talking nonsense😂
The Hindu's were 100% right about the Ram mandir and the ASI has vindicated them.
Given this the BJP , VHP and sang parivar were correct to make this a political issue and this will continue going forward because it works and Congress has no answer to this
Mr dhume was right while the shruti is the reason secularism in India is dead . Most Indians are Conservative in nature and are also religious .
The Hindus dont really care about secularism because they are the majority and its not important to them , its very important for the other 20% of Indians but the 80% are fed up paying a heavy price for it .
I agree with the analysis of Dhume. When you proactively insert "secular" in the Constitution, it becomes your responsibility to insure that secularism in its true sense prevails. That was not the case. Secularism in its implementation put the majority at a disadvantage and made them look like fools.
I think Mr Dhume has put it very appropriately .. MS Shruti Kapila is taking this as a college debate which is completely cut from reality..Im sorry to say but Ms Shruti is the exact type of people that Mr Sadaand and Ms Barkha are referring as English elite failing to understand the matter. ..you can sense the annoyance in Sadaand's voice on how irrational Ms Shruti is..Glad there are people who speak the facts no matter if one likes them or not.
Mr.Dhume excellent discussion and points. Hats off to your patience. To Ms.Kapila - She represents our opposition parties, does not know , do not want to listen, keep talking without any substance and get agitated.
Mujhe angrezi thik thak aathi hai. Lekin Shruti ji ko samajh nahi paa raha hoon.
Edit: Bharat is a land of temples and other Dharmic faiths. Islam/Christianity are foreign religions, these are facts and cannot be contested.
People of india can freely practice any religion. But cannot change the core Dharmic ethos of the country.
You cannot change your ancestors.
Mahatma Gandhi was religious - much more religious than the average Indian of that time. Dhume - you need to speak truth unless of course you just don't know the truth.
IAS officers and journalists didn't give India freedom. Funny how they themselves call them "elites".
Hinduism by definition is secular. "religious" is a foreign concept to India. People in India practice Santana Dharma. Please stop translating that to a "formal organized religion".
It's an insult to Indians to say "revenge of masses". India is on the path to reclaiming its identity. If you all don't like it, that's okay.
Shruti Kapila caught lying 😮 good job sadanand dhume 😅
forget secularism, tell me where did Shruthi s eye brow vanish??.. right wing eyebrow plucker ??😅😅
Dhume is a good secularist, Shruti is insane secularist, but in general all kinds of secularists are bad, very bad
Throwing Western jargons like secularism, majoritarianism, pluralism, regressive uniformity, liberalism etc. does not explain anything. Just pure confusion and shows how alienated are these panelists from the Indian roots. These ideas does not address the reality of religious expansionism, religious exclusivism and doctrional religious hatered for non-belivers. Such religious doctrines have no room in a plural society. Only asserting Hindutva, through a civilizational state can address these fundamental issues.
These rights based regime is the fundamental problem of liberal secular construct... Where State is the new GOD... Essentially Bharat was always duty based society.. In Bharat, your duties determined what rights you will have.. This philosophy is what is known as Dharma.. No wonder, Bharat was able to assimilate seamlessly countless people in its fold. Muslims invaders could never integrate into Bharat as their rights were already and exclusively enshrined by some imaginary God. Only way, forward for Bharat is to wean back muslims into Dharmic duty based society. It is a long term project and it will probably take centuries but it will happen as Dharma is once again resurgent..
jeez .. Shruti is trying to mimic Sashi Tharoor but failed miserably… about her substance the less said the better .. this podcast was such a waste of time without the view from the right !
Shruti Kapila shoudl be introduced as a Indian Congress supporter from UK and a rabid BJP adversary
Kapila is throwing tantrums. Mental constipation on display.
Shruti Kapila has no idea about Bharat. I think she haven't visited villages and doesn't know about them. Sadanand still make sense and have coherent arguments. It is beacuse of people like Shruti and their distorted view that Congress in this position.
At the core, the issue is cheating of masses by a section of elites who took their trust for granted and utilised that trust for a project for which there was never a support.. Masses trusted western educated elites that they would create better future for them which will be in sync with their civilisational and cultural roots. Nehru was never a dominant figure, as we know today. Masses trusted these people and waited, including for their religious symbols like Ayodhya temple. However, their patience was tested. Not only that, since 1970s, heat was turned against Hindus with clear pentration of communist project since 1970s to demonise and ridicule Hindus. Hindus still reflected patience. However, onslaught of left was so high in Congress that it became difficult for Congress to remain centrist party and voice for respect for Hindu religion. By 2009-10, trimphliasm of left was on peak with open ridicule of Hindus, their complete subjugation. Chance given to Congress by old loyalist and voters to return to centrist politics was completely misunderstood and there was no return.