Hey guys, editor here. The delay of the video is on me this time. Let me know your thoughts and if there’s anything you'd like to add to the new video format.
2 things about this formation that’s so interesting. 1) is that this was the predominant formation of European teams in the 1950s. 2) While Pep sort of revitalized it for the sake of developing his possession/positional play, thus far, it’s actually been utilized in a manner far more conservatively used than some of the more innovative sides who employed it at that time (Real Madrid and Hungary). I think it’s only a matter of time till its properly adapted to utilize its fluid potential. (Full Backs who push into midfield, A number 8 who fills in for the false 9 etc). This is the formation that birthed total football, so it’s kind of fitting that Pep arrived here in a full circle moment.
@@mightymoeish I'm going to assume that you spelled "Pessi by mistake lol. But you're right Pep's teams have always been famous for their fluidity. But this formation has crazy potential as Marsca has demonstrated already with his slight 4-1-4-1 variation. It just has endless potential with regards to how much a teams shape can morph during the course of a game.
First of all, I love the channel, and I think your videos are insightful, didactic (in a good way) and resist resorting to kneejerk reactions or offensively reductive headlines. But I do have some thoughts on this video that I hope you can appreciate: 1) I'm not sure if Barcelona's offensive set-up with Guardiola was mainly a 3-2-4-1. I remember it being more of a 3-3-4, although I know Xavi dropped back a lot more often than Iniesta, Thiago or Keita. Sometimes he used a 3-4-3 with a diamond in midfield, just like Cruyff, which is what I believe he's using this season (instead of a 3-1-6). As for Bayern, I think it was more of a 3-3-4 as well, or even a 2-3-5 with both full-backs tucking in. 2) Guardiola discusses these "old" formations at length with Martí Perarnau in his books, and I reckon it would be nice to be more historically minded and at least reference Herbert Chapman and his creation of the W-M (3-2-4-1). Same thing with Cruyff's 3-4-3 (diamond). 3) Another problem with this shape is that, when dealing with a low block, pretty much the only players with space available turn out to be the "rest defenders", which is a concern when offensive full-backs have been more and more restricted to formations with 5 at the back. (ex.: Man City vs Arsenal last week)
Yet they try to say he's not the best manager 😂 He's revolutionised football with clear evidence to show for it but hate clouds judgement. Football is basically pep vs his students using his tactics against him. There's the usual few like simeone, ancelotti, mourinho etc but most of them and especially the new managers are literally copying his blueprint. The mf had to even bring out some weird back 3 with 5 centre backs just to counter his own shit then they copied that too💀😂
@@keifyboi6913 add in that every match is endlessly watched on video by everybody and everybody sees exactly how everyone else plays within minutes. 16 years after Pep started, it might be time for a new disrupter to rise from the streets.
Xavi is a prime example of this. His 3-2-5 was so rigid and boring, it made me lose any interest in watching Barca. Then Flick came in and just threw it away. Now you have Raphinha, Lewa, Pedri all back to their best.
I wouldn't say that he completely threw it away. You can still see the 325 shape especially in build up, the key difference is sometimes it's the DM dropping in to form the 3, Kounde the RB tucking into to form the 3(and still joining the attack with late overlapping runs, and probably most importantly the increased fluidity in the center of the field with the inverted wingers and the 10.
Raphniah and Lewandowski are playing to their best because Hansi analyzed how poorly this players were underutilized and didn't fit Xavi system of football.
@@cafloreroHansi use different styles of buildups from 325 as you said to 4231,5131 depending on opponent pressing. He gives his defenders freedom on how they should buildup because he trained them to be calm, think quickly and how to support each other when they are under pressure.
@@Herosenninit was used as recent as the 90s. Fergie used it to win UCL. Beckham was a wide winger that crossed a lot. Why did you mention it only in the 60s
@@AndrewChin-ck9uk Because I never claimed it never existed after the 60's. I just said it originates from the 50 and 60's and that people today think its an entirely new idea. I'm not sure how you understood:' And after the 60's it disappeared till now,' of what I said.
It was more of a 4 2 3 1 with fabian and rodri as dm and olmo as cam. (Nico and lamine played as modern wingers...) even cucurella inverted in build up and joined the attack running the wing like gvuardiol. Also carvajal played a similar style as kyle walker. Perdon, no se me da muy bien el i gles
Although this system is brilliant at breaking down weaker teams, its rigidity (as you pointed out) makes it far less effective once an opponent has discovered a tactic that exploits the space left by such a system. This is why Pep tends to dominate the league, but sees far less domination in knockout competitions because his team is less adaptable to unique tactics.
The problem for me is most think it is the be all end all. While Pep often changes his shapes and structures depending on the opponent and how they play. I guess now that Pep seems big on this 3-1-3-3/3-1-6 we might see that everywhere soon...
One thing often overlooked in these conversations is that this system is loved because it works! It gives your team the best chance of winning. And thats why it probably wont go away anytime soon
Football need some mad scientists, like Zdeněk Zeman, Menotti, Tele Santana, Francisco Maturana, , La Volpe.... Guys who have courage to be themselves and applied his own ideas on the game.
There is a big difference from when Pep does it to other teams. Other teams basically keep the traditional 433 midfield, with a 6 8 and 10. Pep pushes two 10s like KDB and Bernardo/Foden.
there is no 3-2-5, or 5-2-3 or whatever. It doesn't mean much. As a coach, it is important for the players to understand how these shapes morph into other shapes, depending on the situations, there are four, possession, defending, losing the ball, regaining the ball. The transitions of this situations require an immediate transition of the shapes, also depending on the zone of the ball. There will be situations where a 3-2-5 changes into a 2-1-3-3 or in a 5-2-3-1 or a 5-1-3-2 all is possible, also depending on the score... Most commonly, a 3-2-5 in possession is in fact a 3-2-2-3, with a central box 2-2 where the two attacking midfield players seek space in back of the opponents midfielders, typically Foden and Lewis, pulling them back to make space for their double 6 to distribute the game.
I think that with the right team, 3-2-3-2 can be the best formation. On defense, it gives you two pressure points with three coverage points, and on offense, it gives you three players to build the play and depending upon where the ball it, your two strikers can play different roles.
4:07 - Given that Maresca also made a video on the same channel (the Coaches Voice) with the exact same formation, I think you could have shown them together
Did you see the part where it is a problem.... So coaches adapt their tactics based on their players. Feels like ETH does not know his players and their capabilities
he is quite literally using a 3-1 diamond in defence as opposed to a 3-2. gundogan doesn't stay parallel to kovacic. rather, it's other teams that are using the 3-2 polygon.
Given that 3-2-5 is known to give you more control of the midfield, with the box overload, how much more difference do you think a 2-3-5 would give where both FBs are inverting? Does that put you at a bigger disadvantage on the counter?
Struggle is the wrong word, but Palmer is being negatively affected by the rigidity of this system with Maresca at Chelsea. Still a brilliant player, but it's clear that he thrives in a vertically fluid role which Enzo's system definitely isn't. Having said that, his tactics are starting to click now, would be great to see an analysis in a few months
@@aaaaaaa4750 Some people just didn't understand what Maresca's system was all about because their attention was distracted by ideas about ball control. Maybe they were thinking of Guardiola or Tuchel.
Can you do a Diego Simeone tactical development through the years at Atletico? Would really like to know your opinion on the recent and not so recent changes in his tactics. Great video as always!
They're playing similar shapes in attack, but starting positions, defensive tactics etc. are still varied around Europe. The most hilarious experiment was England's 4-2-4 against Greece, with Bellingham playing a false 9, which looked like a chaotic 4-2-3-1 anyway. We all saw how that went.
Do you think Flick is a positional coach or functional? And do you think players like pedri and fdj will get the freedom under flick which they should get?
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Can't wait for a Barca Video in the Flick Era
the barsa glaze is real. what I can't wait for is the inevitable early european exit.
@@abody499 that’s cause you’re a hating Bih
@@abody499
Cry harder kid
@@apollo-9725 we'll see soon enough weirdo. I'll be back.
@@abody499
Hater
Hey guys, editor here. The delay of the video is on me this time. Let me know your thoughts and if there’s anything you'd like to add to the new video format.
Good vid
Mate, it was spot on, great job.
Ur good bro great vid
No worries sir. Quality takes time and we really appreciate it.
Watching this in bed. Next time don't use the flashes for transitions. Hurts the eye
flick ball when
2 things about this formation that’s so interesting.
1) is that this was the predominant formation of European teams in the 1950s.
2) While Pep sort of revitalized it for the sake of developing his possession/positional play, thus far, it’s actually been utilized in a manner far more conservatively used than some of the more innovative sides who employed it at that time (Real Madrid and Hungary). I think it’s only a matter of time till its properly adapted to utilize its fluid potential. (Full Backs who push into midfield, A number 8 who fills in for the false 9 etc). This is the formation that birthed total football, so it’s kind of fitting that Pep arrived here in a full circle moment.
They used to call it the WM formation
"A number 8 who fills in for the false 9"
Pep did that at Barca (sometimes). He had Cesc occupy the opposition CBs when Pessi dropped into midfield.
@@mightymoeish I'm going to assume that you spelled "Pessi by mistake lol. But you're right Pep's teams have always been famous for their fluidity. But this formation has crazy potential as Marsca has demonstrated already with his slight 4-1-4-1 variation. It just has endless potential with regards to how much a teams shape can morph during the course of a game.
7:48 - I can totally relate as well. That's why I found it very interesting to see Liverpool's 2-4-4 build up shape at the start of the season
First of all, I love the channel, and I think your videos are insightful, didactic (in a good way) and resist resorting to kneejerk reactions or offensively reductive headlines. But I do have some thoughts on this video that I hope you can appreciate:
1) I'm not sure if Barcelona's offensive set-up with Guardiola was mainly a 3-2-4-1. I remember it being more of a 3-3-4, although I know Xavi dropped back a lot more often than Iniesta, Thiago or Keita. Sometimes he used a 3-4-3 with a diamond in midfield, just like Cruyff, which is what I believe he's using this season (instead of a 3-1-6). As for Bayern, I think it was more of a 3-3-4 as well, or even a 2-3-5 with both full-backs tucking in.
2) Guardiola discusses these "old" formations at length with Martí Perarnau in his books, and I reckon it would be nice to be more historically minded and at least reference Herbert Chapman and his creation of the W-M (3-2-4-1). Same thing with Cruyff's 3-4-3 (diamond).
3) Another problem with this shape is that, when dealing with a low block, pretty much the only players with space available turn out to be the "rest defenders", which is a concern when offensive full-backs have been more and more restricted to formations with 5 at the back. (ex.: Man City vs Arsenal last week)
McKenna has used this at Ipswich when attacking - the left back pushes up as a left winger and the right back tucks in as a third CB.
Everyone just copies whatever pep does last season 😂
And then he moves on and do something else and beat everyone
Yet they try to say he's not the best manager 😂
He's revolutionised football with clear evidence to show for it but hate clouds judgement. Football is basically pep vs his students using his tactics against him.
There's the usual few like simeone, ancelotti, mourinho etc but most of them and especially the new managers are literally copying his blueprint. The mf had to even bring out some weird back 3 with 5 centre backs just to counter his own shit then they copied that too💀😂
facts
@@keifyboi6913 add in that every match is endlessly watched on video by everybody and everybody sees exactly how everyone else plays within minutes.
16 years after Pep started, it might be time for a new disrupter to rise from the streets.
@@2ridiculous41You should look up Diniz at fluminense and relationism... definition of disruption
Xavi is a prime example of this. His 3-2-5 was so rigid and boring, it made me lose any interest in watching Barca. Then Flick came in and just threw it away. Now you have Raphinha, Lewa, Pedri all back to their best.
Incredible how one coach can change its players so much
I wouldn't say that he completely threw it away. You can still see the 325 shape especially in build up, the key difference is sometimes it's the DM dropping in to form the 3, Kounde the RB tucking into to form the 3(and still joining the attack with late overlapping runs, and probably most importantly the increased fluidity in the center of the field with the inverted wingers and the 10.
He won the league. Put some credit on his name. He GAVE US PAU, YAMAL, CASADO.
Raphniah and Lewandowski are playing to their best because Hansi analyzed how poorly this players were underutilized and didn't fit Xavi system of football.
@@cafloreroHansi use different styles of buildups from 325 as you said to 4231,5131 depending on opponent pressing. He gives his defenders freedom on how they should buildup because he trained them to be calm, think quickly and how to support each other when they are under pressure.
Gotta love systems from the 50's and 60's being implemented with people thinking it's an entirely new idea.
Im waiting for someone to invent a 4-4-2 with wide wingers
A 4-2-4?
@@jonatanolsen37 Already existed as well. Was played in the 60's.
@@Herosenninit was used as recent as the 90s. Fergie used it to win UCL. Beckham was a wide winger that crossed a lot. Why did you mention it only in the 60s
@@AndrewChin-ck9uk Because I never claimed it never existed after the 60's. I just said it originates from the 50 and 60's and that people today think its an entirely new idea.
I'm not sure how you understood:' And after the 60's it disappeared till now,' of what I said.
Thus by far the best channel for forrvall tactics. Thx for the great work. Keep it up
Tthats why i like watching spain in euros, they were different with a bbasic 4-1-2-3 with attacking fb and classic wingers
Yes but in certain situations you would see this shape with Carvajal tucking in and Cucurella inverting
@@footygoatz7552 exactly. It's still a variation of 3-2-5, albeit situationally.
it is literally still the same shape
It was more of a 4 2 3 1 with fabian and rodri as dm and olmo as cam. (Nico and lamine played as modern wingers...) even cucurella inverted in build up and joined the attack running the wing like gvuardiol. Also carvajal played a similar style as kyle walker. Perdon, no se me da muy bien el i gles
Bro eagerly waiting for your video on Barca!
Although this system is brilliant at breaking down weaker teams, its rigidity (as you pointed out) makes it far less effective once an opponent has discovered a tactic that exploits the space left by such a system. This is why Pep tends to dominate the league, but sees far less domination in knockout competitions because his team is less adaptable to unique tactics.
Always great content with you man. Keep up the good work!
The problem for me is most think it is the be all end all. While Pep often changes his shapes and structures depending on the opponent and how they play. I guess now that Pep seems big on this 3-1-3-3/3-1-6 we might see that everywhere soon...
Well those formations are over now lol, cant belive they didnt bring a backup for rodri
U mean 343 in diamond?
One thing often overlooked in these conversations is that this system is loved because it works! It gives your team the best chance of winning. And thats why it probably wont go away anytime soon
Can you do a video which looks at if switching the side your winger is on mid-game is actually effective? Could be interesting
I really enjoy your videos dude. Keep it up.
Please make a recent video regarding Thiago Motta's tactics.
he’s already done one. you want another one or what?
Who ? Motto 😂😂😂
Football need some mad scientists, like Zdeněk Zeman, Menotti, Tele Santana, Francisco Maturana, , La Volpe....
Guys who have courage to be themselves and applied his own ideas on the game.
Diniz is the only one right now
inzaghi
@@madaxwayneyes. We have some still out there.
Hurzsler is one. Inzaghi too
Oh, and Zeman was ahead of his time by about 30 years. If he was 50 right now, he'd be one of the very best
This season city attack 3-1-3-3 or 3-1-6 and barça 2-2-6 or 2-4-4
There is a big difference from when Pep does it to other teams. Other teams basically keep the traditional 433 midfield, with a 6 8 and 10. Pep pushes two 10s like KDB and Bernardo/Foden.
omg he finnaly posted
Barca has been generally been attacking in a 2-3-5
thats how flick did it in bayern as well
there is no 3-2-5, or 5-2-3 or whatever. It doesn't mean much.
As a coach, it is important for the players to understand how these shapes morph into other shapes, depending on the situations, there are four,
possession, defending, losing the ball, regaining the ball.
The transitions of this situations require an immediate transition of the shapes, also depending on the zone of the ball.
There will be situations where a 3-2-5 changes into a 2-1-3-3 or in a 5-2-3-1 or a 5-1-3-2 all is possible, also depending on the score...
Most commonly, a 3-2-5 in possession is in fact a 3-2-2-3, with a central box 2-2 where the two attacking midfield players seek space in back of the opponents midfielders,
typically Foden and Lewis, pulling them back to make space for their double 6 to distribute the game.
Outstanding video!!
I think that with the right team, 3-2-3-2 can be the best formation. On defense, it gives you two pressure points with three coverage points, and on offense, it gives you three players to build the play and depending upon where the ball it, your two strikers can play different roles.
10/10 video great insight
Can you make a video on Manchester United? People keep saying there's no style of play and they play horrible football because of the results.
Great points there!
Hansi flick still uses 2 cbs while building up
325 in possession
442 out of possession
Missed your videos bro
Great video!
i use this formation in fm24 but i move my wingers so that they play behind the 2 10s, lovely counter attacking formation
Mom mom!! the Purist just dropped a new video 🤩🤩. Love your content brother.
Ps: Where are you from? Your accent its interesting bro
Ancelotti's Real Madrid does this so well in attack.
I loved this video and I agree, bring the 4-3-3 back !!
3-2-5 is 5-5 and4-3-3 is also 5-5
4:07 - Given that Maresca also made a video on the same channel (the Coaches Voice) with the exact same formation, I think you could have shown them together
Personally, my favourite is the 3-1-4-2 of Juve or Roma
ETH uses 3-1-6 and its madness but when Pep copies it he's a genius? lol
It's almost like the players matter too.
@@quesopasso ofc technical -> tactical
The problem is the players at utd can’t fit into the roles needed for the style of play. The old ones got to replaced the new ones can learn
Did you see the part where it is a problem.... So coaches adapt their tactics based on their players. Feels like ETH does not know his players and their capabilities
I have been waiting for bar under Flick
Talk about flick's barça bro
do a video of the best set ups in guardiolas city and their differences in tactics
what do you use for your tactical animations ? Good job
I am running a 4-4-2 so far so good 👍
Please can u do one on Manchester United and explain what is really going on with their tactics
Pleaaaase do VfB Stuttgart with Sebastian Hoeneß. Most interesting team out there as seen this week @Madrid and against Dortmund :)
At 6:15 talks is exactly what's happening with Enzo Fernandez this season
Can we get something on Amorim?
he is quite literally using a 3-1 diamond in defence as opposed to a 3-2. gundogan doesn't stay parallel to kovacic. rather, it's other teams that are using the 3-2 polygon.
What's the best shape against the 352/532 (in defense) played in Italy?
Given that 3-2-5 is known to give you more control of the midfield, with the box overload, how much more difference do you think a 2-3-5 would give where both FBs are inverting? Does that put you at a bigger disadvantage on the counter?
make a video about arne slot liverpool tactics
Nuri Sahin should watch this video
Fast forward to now, where Pep is already moving on to 3-1-6
It all depends who you’ve got to play in those positions.
When are you going to do a video on Arne Slot's Liverpool and Feyenoord 🙈
This 325 is easily stoppable and beatable if you play a compact 352 or 3421 look at Bayer-Atalanta or City-Inter or Atalanta-Arsenal
Struggle is the wrong word, but Palmer is being negatively affected by the rigidity of this system with Maresca at Chelsea. Still a brilliant player, but it's clear that he thrives in a vertically fluid role which Enzo's system definitely isn't. Having said that, his tactics are starting to click now, would be great to see an analysis in a few months
Ironically palmer is actually given freedom in the formation
Chelsea's speed and number of attacks will increase and Palmer will flourish. He's already 2+4.
Aged like milk
@@aaaaaaa4750 😁
@@aaaaaaa4750 Some people just didn't understand what Maresca's system was all about because their attention was distracted by ideas about ball control. Maybe they were thinking of Guardiola or Tuchel.
Please do a Barcelona vid under flick recently
Come back with Video, bro
Ange with the 2-3-5
Not all teams play like this.
I prefer wingers with supporting attacking fullbacks. Harder for the opponent to defend.
do a barca vid
Purist, Do a video on Flick's Barca
Exactly what was wrong with Xavi’s Barca is the fact that this formation is very rigid and predictable
Slot's Liverpool video please
This formation is conte formation
Pep just makes it’s better
does this not just mean that pacey wingers in counter attacking low blocks should be dominant against most teams in the world?
Can you redo the Madrid play 😊
To be honest with you this shape came from THOMAS TUCHELS CHELSEA
please make a video on flicks barcaaaa
When’s the Barca vid coming
Who is the raphina in Bayern ????
Rafinha, a Brazilian right back who is playing in São Paulo now
Rafinha Alcantara...the brother of Thiago Alcantara
@@onsideobsession5412no.
We need your videos about Barca destroying teams
are u going to make a video on barca when they lose cuz at this rate thats what it seems like
Waiting for a Real Madrid analysis video ....
So seventy years after the Hungarians eviscerated it we've rediscovered the W-M...
First here ❤️💙
We are never getting a flick video
Meanwhile Pep has shifted to a 3-1-6 this season 😅
Well, Madrid doesnt
That’s why they’re different
They rarely play structural football
Madrid doesnt have a formation in the first place, the players just go wherever the fuck they feel like going to
@@BlazySM-qp4yn that's what people say when they don't understand what is going on
@@BlazySM-qp4yn 'Relationism'.
@@abody499 nope this is the truth. look how they are playing right now. vinicius mbappe and rodrygo all on the left wing
Meanwhile Ange: 0-2-8
DO A FLICK BALL VIDEOO
Arsenal played 4-4-2
First half vs Man City
Without Odegard
Herbert chapman arsenal manager invented it
Can you do a Diego Simeone tactical development through the years at Atletico? Would really like to know your opinion on the recent and not so recent changes in his tactics.
Great video as always!
They're playing similar shapes in attack, but starting positions, defensive tactics etc. are still varied around Europe. The most hilarious experiment was England's 4-2-4 against Greece, with Bellingham playing a false 9, which looked like a chaotic 4-2-3-1 anyway. We all saw how that went.
Do you think Flick is a positional coach or functional? And do you think players like pedri and fdj will get the freedom under flick which they should get?
Flick is not positioning coach
Thomas Tuchel
Are those Omnitrix sound effects?
Great
Not Ange
More like a 3223
Why is every team playing the same formation? cause PEP does it and had success with it.
Everyone copies Pep and still lose. Meanwhile, Madrid copies Arteta and wins a UCL
"Madrid copies arteta"🤣🤣🤣
flick ball bro
Human have a habit of optimising or min-maxing the games they play, football not so different 😂