It takes skill to actually be good at both archetypes. A good beatdown player has to learn to be patient, how to partially defend, and when to actually make a push. Like most good lava players will play lava in the back and the typical response is their opponent spamming the opposite lane. An unskilled player will use their remaining elixir to defend, while a skilled player well determine “will their push take my tower?” If not then they keep investing elixir in their push, and if it WILL take your tower, then play a few elixir to defend while still having elixir to support your push. Cycle is more about knowing every interaction and precise placement to get the most out of your cards. That’s why people feel like their entire 30 elixir push being defended by cannon and musketeer is unfair, but in reality it’s kinda…. fair play. With cycle, 9/10 if you brainlessly spam your win con (whether it be hog, piggies, drill etc.) You will get some damage, but you will lose your tower due to overinvesting. For example, if I were playing piggies cycle and playing my pigs every time I have them, it would be very easy for my opponent to stack defending units and build up a bigger counterpush. Cycle is really about outcycling your opponents counters, while gaining an elixir advantage by defending with cheap cycle cards. There’s a lot more I could discuss, but I feel like I covered the difference in the two.
Yeah I like what you wrote and definitely agree with it. I think people should try playing with the opposite deck in order to understand it better and see that it takes skill. Lots of cycle players just say that “all beatdown does is ignore defense and play their entire elixir bar to win the game in one push.” and lots of beatdown players say “all cycle does is spam their win con over and over and defend my 30 elixir push with .1 elixir.” Trying different decks will help you see that everything takes skill even if it is a different set of skills.
@@Cwmaltacc90not really, it’s easy to throw away an entire game due to misreading your opponent’s cycle or even just playing your cards in the wrong millisecond. Countering actually good beatdown decks can be crazy tough as a cycle player. (That is if you aren’t hard countering with wizard/exe nado vs lavaloon or smth)
I just watched because I was curious what would be brought up. I stopped playing two(?) years ago or so. I don't even remember exactly why - if it was the constant awful matchups, toxic players, evolutions, or a silly mechanic, or a combination; but I'm not going back - I'd be far too rusty to enjoy myself, have very few evolutions, and would end up wanting to send my phone into orbit again. The game was good while it lasted, but I've been burned by it too hard. Man, it is good to rant.
I think it'd be a decent way to tell whether the deck requires skill or not to see how many good matchups it has in the meta. gg pekka has like 75% of matchups as really good ones, so obviously it's easier to play. Same with mortar bait last season, whereas something like 3m or sparky has barely any good matchups so it'd be relatively harder to play.
you are absolutely right, less counters deck has, lower skill it requires. i think there will never be a balance between all cards because some of them get nerfed while the others get kind of rise, so there will be new meta decks in every balance changes update. it means that in every meta there will be decks that are easier to play than others. sorry for grammar tho😭
This makes sense to think, but it would also mean to say that some decks are high skill when in reality they are just harder to play because they're weaker in the meta
i agree but not really. just because a deck counters another deck in theory doesnt mean its not skill reliant in that matchup. there are certain types of matchups where deck A should counter deck B, but because both players are equally low skilled deck B wins because deck A is harder. its true that a deck can be less skilled if they have less counters, but that doesnt mean the deck is skillless. hog 2.6 is a good example. even though it doesnt have many direct counters, its still a pretty skillful deck.
I mainly play a Hybrid Deck focused around mainly counterpushes, using cards to defend an opponents push, then punishing any overcommits by sticking a Bandit or Battle Ram in the other lane to force a split defense. Its not meta by any means, but its gotten me consistently to Royal Champion in Path of Legends (Probably to Ultimate Champion if I wasn't playing casually) And what I usually find is that there is a breakpoint for cycle decks, where their cycle is so cheap you cannot punish them, because they can stall-cycle with Skeletons, Ice Spirit, and Snowball/Log etc to get back to their counter. It feels unfair when you manage to bait out a key card, go to counterpush, and they manage to get that counter back before any troops can reach the tower. Now, that level of play takes a lot of skill to pull off, yes, but unlike any other deck, there is no ceiling. It essentially gives the Cycle Player a crutch in that as long as they follow the same tried and true strategy, they will win, there is no adapting or strategy, just ensuring you place X Card at Y spot at Z time and you will always win. I dont mean to beat a dead horse, but its why I hate Hog 2.6. No matter where I am in Path of Legends, from Bronze all the way up to Royal Champion, its the same. Every single game against that cycle deck is the same, 3 minutes of them getting minor chip damage while I hope they misplay just enough to where I can build up a push they cant stop so easily (because again, a 4 elixir cycle means they can juggle a push and get their counter back even if you bait it out OR they misplay). Its not unskilled, but it is 'unskilled', if you catch my meaning. No deck should be perfect. There should be weaknesses that both players need to concider and play around. If you know your deck struggles against air, then maybe hold onto those archers until its safe, or if you know your opponent only has one counter against YOUR push, wait until theyre forced to use it before commiting. Turbo-Cycle Decks dont have to because technically their entire deck is always in their hand to be played when needed, and so the only weaknesses come from the cards themselves, and the skill of the player, not anything on the opponents end. Ignoring that one specific archetype, none of them can truly be concidered unskilled, because they have weaknesses that require skill to overcome. And so the only unskilled decks, again, are those that rely solely on the power of their cards over any form of strategy (which tbh tends to be Cycle anyways since they can more easily exploit Clash Royales latest P2W scheme or broken card. Remember Phoenix Cycle? That was so much fun.). If a game is truly balanced with no problem cards, then there shouldnt be any unskilled decks, because there will be no crutches outside of the potential hard counter deck, and poorly made, aka unskilled, decks would be punished.
@@Nemesis-ww2ph Uh... No? I don't think you read my post if you think that is the case. I said being able to rapidly cycle though your deck is unfair because it makes counterplay impossible, and at the highest skill level, a High Speed Cycle Deck is almost impossible to beat, relying on their mistakes rather than both player's actions. Note how I said 'at the highest skill level'. Its High skill, low effort. Smh I also brought up how Cycle Decks tend to exacerbate the effect of OP Troops far greater than any other type.
Beatdown: Attacking: low skill Defending: expensive and high skill Cycle: Attacking: High skill (need more effort to coordinate pushes and save elixir) Defending: Low skill, cheaper
The damage efficiency point at 13:30 is just wrong at a certain level though. Cycle players can literally threaten to take your entire tower with 2 elixir (ice spirit + evo skeletons), meaning they can punish your commitment and stop your push dead in its tracks without comprimising their own defence all too much. If you play a whole prince to punish a golem though, simply playing guards will give you a positive elixir trade and leave the opponent without his major dps card on defence.
People who call any deck boosted, go get a Top 100 finish with the boosted deck if it's so good; deck specific skill is insignificant compared to general player skill like placement, predictions and counting
Now i kinda suck i will admit it i play goblin gaint and usually get 8 maybe 10 wins at most playing classic challenge, but i can admit that anyone that plays pekka is boosted af, like i swear to god i just played some random pekka cycle that i found and got 10 wins first try and then won my first and second classic challenge IN A ROW, i dont think ive ever seen any deck more boosted than pekka cycle
@@aligg9052evo pekka is insanely boosted right now, it's true. Im bummed because i didnt buy it thinking it was going to get cooked after the season, but the healing nerf was very insignificant
If a card requires no particular tought, positioning or timing to play and just does it's thing while having gimmicks that make it anoying to deal with if you don't have that one card that counters it then it's low skill. See Evo MK, Evo firecraker, etc...
I run a 3M double pekka lumberjack sparky deck. I play maybe 15 cards in a normal match and have to win with that little bit of choice. 1 bad push and I lose, everything is about counter offenses and split lane bridge rushes. I literally have to figure out how to defend 3 different cards often split lane with 1 play.
imo the biggest issue is idea of people following meta mostly, which forces other group of players, to use counter for meta, which has another counter from not meta, which has another counter from not meta. In short, people should choose what they are fine with, because every deck has its counter.
I have to agree, my worst losses comes from being .1 second late in placing a card or a card being placed 1 tile too low or high. He didn’t mention bad starting hands as well, sometimes it takes 2 minutes to recover and get into a good card cycle. You’d be down on damage with potentially lower elixir. This sucks for cycle vs cycle matchups as you’re constantly on the defense to try to recover as your opponent keeps taking advantage of your bad starting hand.
i think the skill required to play a deck are also dictated by the skills some cards take alone, for example if you have some of the highest skill cards in your deck such as tornado, fisherman or magic archer it's gonna be harder to play than a deck that has giant and arrows as their most skilled cards in the deck. but at the end of the day who cares about this stupid discussion, just enjoy the game and play whatever you want as long as you don't spam the crying skeleton pin for 5 minutes straight.
2:20 with that logic activating the opponents king tower on purpose is skillful risky moves are less likely to be rewarded and therefore less skillful. Unless you know that your opponent can't respond to golem first play it's stupid to do.
That's a fair assessment. One thing I always point out is when playing a beat down deck, you can get caught with your pants down more easily. Because everything is a bigger investment, one bad play and you're behind. Whereas cycle decks, if you make a mistake, you have a lot more opportunities to make up lost elixir. I've always thought that generally picking up a beat down deck is easier, but it's harder to play it at its highest level. The nuisances of a cycle deck take a while to get, with micros and such. But once you have it down, you can go farther as bad matchups are fewer and farther between.
Bruh the entire point of the video is that all decks require skill.It's just that matchups are what determine the amount of skill needed to win. And yet people are commenting "ebarb/mknight/Egolem /etc is no skill" 🗿🗿💀
This video is amazing. I've been a beatdown player since like 2016. I remember using Giant backed up by Witch in early arenas, lol. And now I use one cycle evo PEKKA and evo Wizard.
When a game has been out for more than a few years and has been consistently popular, you can pretty much guarantee people will dedicate their entire life to it and develop some crazy strategies and change the game play forever I.e. Fortnite
@@apachexprime4768 to be fair i know a lot of mid 20s age people who play fortnight on occasion, i dont know a single person who plays this game. My y guess is that the avg age of this game is a lot younger.
Abdod, i think the logic makes sense at the end, with the less polarizing matchups and whatnot, but generally with cycle decks you need to learn many more interactions, so i feel its a fair tradeoff.
Its a Fair trade off for the average player But what i meant mostly was if you are playing beatdown in CRL and beating cycle players with it then id argue you are more skilled
@@manspence2203 nah im mainly saying skill changes based on the Trophy range or the match up being played which is why there is no such thing as a "No Skill" Deck
I would say there’s 3 kinds of decks: Beatdown, Cycle, and Bait. Bait focuses less on outcycling counters and more on forcing out mistakes from your opponent
No. Bait can be heavy with recruits or cheap with rocket cycle, it's an entirely different archetype. There also are bridgespam and control which have their own playstyle.
Archetypes in clash are a little weird. The three main archetypes are cycle, beatdown, and control. Practically all decks fit into one of those 3. There are lots of subsets within those however like bait, bridge spam, siege, etc. Classic bait is a control deck but there are cycle bait decks like MM skellies bait and heavier decks like rascals prince bait.
Graveyard is technically its own thing, bait can be anything between cycle, beatdown, or control. It sounds counterintuitive but although you need to out cycle opponent’s counters with bait, the much larger part of the game is controlling the momentum and having power over what happens in the game. Knowing how to toy with an opponent is what wins with bait at the top level, it’s not just your opponent forgetting that they can’t use their arrows. I’m a bait main, but control is my favorite archetype because I find that you have to equally be very good at your beatdown skills and cycle skills in order to win. But when it works, it works super well.
He speaks about the argument when you say that push decks are unskill, because you just setup the attack every time its possible without even thinking. So these beatdown players can reply that 2.6 6 elixir push is also unskill
in the Goblinstein challenge, is my semi-original Evo-Mega-Knight E-Barb Rage Sparky Arrows Ice-Wizard Guards deck no skill(i often destroy players that is in higher arenas with this deck)(this is originally a Goblin Giant deck, but i suck at building targeters
I think he was saying that siege and control decks count as cycle. In siege you cycle mortars/bows and then defend. In miner poison, you cycle both of those cards then defend.
Imo beatdown in general isnt noskill, its just that most infamous noskill decks like gobgiany recruits, egolem and giant gy are beatdown that give them a bad rep
Would love to see a 0 cycle evolution for beatdown like golem. since it cost way more elixir you might only play it twice the entire game. I Think this is the only way to make it viable
Cycle will always be lower skill since the very design of the game favours such archetype. You outlined the facts really well. It's also mirrored at the highest level, in top200 ultimate champion there are currently 0 golem users and 1 lava user. It makes no sense to use them
Absolutely agreed! The same can be said about anything at the bridge that’s more than 4 elixir. A hog rider is where I draw my limit, but anything after that is so risky that any competent player with a 50:50 matchup and decent starting hand will completely wreck someone who plays it. People get so angry at golems in the back first play, lumberloon the bridge first play, or hog ice golem first play, because when it works they know that it shouldn’t have.
No, it's not. Watch ultimate champion replays in TV Royale and see that most players go for pekka as soon as they can/Lava etc. The reason you don't wait is that you can catch someone with a bad starting hand and win instantly + you can't defend against a cycle deck regardless. Also, a two tower scenario is better for beatdown, so if you go against xbow/mortar and trade towers, you have the advantage now. It also makes a defensive building much weaker because they can only effectively be placed between the remaining tower and king, which is also very short distance from a pocket push by a beatdown player, you can golem pretty much directly on the tesla or whatever it may be
Playing golem in the back usually helps me anticipate when my opponent is going to place a building or specific troop, in which I usually have a mini pekka or other ready. Not to mention they make good meatshields for evo battle ram.
The problem os that cycle can't do anything but defend and spell cycle against beatdown (which as annoying as it is, one mistake and beatdown wins) and beatdown just has to put cards at the back and push, which can be defended easily but if not punished well enough, at double or triple elixir the pushes get too big to defend. I prefer cycle, even if it is frustrating it uses the main mechanic of the game (which are the cycles, forgetting building your own deck since this can't work because this game is not well balanced enough to run your own deck past arena 14 or so) and beatdown doesn't even have anything clever about it. I think in cycle you need both macro and micro much more than beatdown which consists in spamming tanks at the back, supporting and trying to 3-crown, and when you lose you cry that the other player was spamming stuff at the back. Like, if you're spamming stuff to the other side, the other side will need a lot to defend
Cycles are absolutely braindead Play cheap cards in rotation and spam At least with beatdown decks, you have to be way more conservative with how you play
A no skill deck (ignoring overleveled cards, as those are unfair by themselves), is a deck that requires barely any effort to take half a tower in less than a minute or, a deck that consists of spamming a card/spell while your defense is impossible to break through, given the cards you have. This is why 2.6 is hated, if you manage to defend the 200 hog riders they send at you, chances are the earthquakes/poisons they use to counter buildings is enough to take your tower, while you have no power to stop it.
Me: **prepares a reasonable gob barrel cycle deck in arena 8** My friend: **uses rocket, lighting, fireball and pekka in the same deck and calls it pekka beatdown cycle**
Boosted means it gives u better ranks than u deserve because its fundamentally broken balance wise Its kinda like the deck is boosting the players rank
Its not just about if a deck is a cycle deck or beat down, its mostly about what cards are in the deck. One could play hog 2.6 cycle, which basically everyone considers low skill, but one could also play megaknight balloon, which is also considered low skill
Concepts like "skill floor" and "skill ceiling" would be helpful with exploring the nuance of match ups here. That cycle decks have lower highs and higher lows in terms of skill required to win a matchup, whereas beat down might require an insane amount of skill to win some matchups while needing much less to win others means that the skill floors and ceilings are different. "Cycle has a higher skill floor and a lower skill ceiling" would better capture it's less polarized nature than "cycle is lower skill."
@@McDoodleDurp Hog, canon, knight and some other stuff in there is one of the most anoying decks to me. Just cycles the hog and that hes only offense.
@@Max-dx1dwjust because you aren’t able to defend a card, doesn’t mean they don’t have matchup or you’re just not countering it properly, it still takes the same amount of skill playing a good deck to get to the same place either way
@@hugopatel7962 The frustrating part is that the deck has impecable defence and the only ofence it has is ice golem and hog. To me it makes a boring matchup when no offence can get through and the only thing that hits your tower is such a card.
To identify skill in clash royale we need to know the main mechanics of the game. which are placement , timing , card types and elixir managment; placement and timing are obvious. the type is what card counter what troop. for example splash counter swarms and zap stop sparky etc (rock paper scissors). When it comes to skilled deck i think we should take these things into consideration . 🗿Golem decks : They don't require good placements and fast reaction timing and most cards are expensive so you don't need to keep placing many cards and kite troops as often, but you need to manage elixir well and you can bounce back from your mistakes and overwhelm your opponent (which no one do elixir management in lower ladder). 🏹 Xbow decks : I Hate xbow but gotta admit. it needs very good elixir management , timing , placement , kite , understanding mechanics and even one mistake can lose you the whole game which is a very high risk (for example even against lavaloon can ignore xbow and attack the other lane and arrow archer , lightning the tesla if needed and you would be screwed for the rest of the game with your xbow exposed)
As someone who has played clash royale since the beginning. I agree with everything in this video. Matchups is easily the difference maker between in making some decks no skill or skill. And is the same reason how meta matter expecially in top ladder / challenges so one meta your deck has a lot of good matchups vs others where they are not as easy. All in all I'd say to choose a deck that plays to your strengths and playstyle. I'd say there's 4 combos that every deck falls between. Fast/slow, defensive/aggressive. Choose what matches your style and get better at that.
Ok so as a cycle player I do admit a lot of cycle players are no-skill, bc when they have a good matchup, they can overcommit, and defend ur entire push easily if they have cards that counter, and its the same with beatdown, when in overtime they build up push after push and dont gain a negative trade even tho the cycle player has an extra tower helping them. Many 2.6 players can get away with going hog ice golem the bridge first play for no good reason, if their opponenent has a bad cycle or gets hard countered by 2.6 and the 2.6 player spams ice golem hogs while being down elixir and still defends perfectly, its understandable that they get pissed, but if they have a good matchup the 2.6 guy will easily lose from it. Also, I was playing lava hound one time agaisnt ice bow (which has a good matchup vs lava), they x-bow first played me and took my tower but they were down 6 elixir and still defended perfectly, because the counter lava.
my point was it is not about matchups. its about metahunting. on every patchnote there is always people who picks card that SS just released or poorly balanced, and now they have advantage purely because of stronger cards. and also no ill never accept that elixir golem+healer+rage takes skill.
i've played this game since it's release to 2 years ago, now i do play it sporadically. I've played for the vast majority of the time rg cycle and other cycles, then i completely switched up and moved to lavaloon. I can totally agree with cycle and beatdown being very different at their FUNDAMENTS, and so, at what you have to give more importance in the single game. People wrongly assume lava players just have to not defend.... do it and you'll lose EVERY game. Defending as a lava/beatdown player, in the RIGHT way, is probably even more important than attacking. You CANNOT overcommit on defence, otherways you'll NEVER start a push, if you can make your tower stand up without spending more than what your opponent spent for attacking, then you can push at the next cycle, otherways you CANNOT. For beatdown having a tower up, even with low HP is a very good defence, this is the difference, as it makes your opponent spend more elixir to destroy a tower that you CAN NOW ignore, making him not be able to defend a big push that can even kill him on the spot. Usually they do defend but the yhave to spend even more and more and they end up having a low hp king tower, not considering the possibility to send a lone baloon on the other lane to make them do hard decisions. Beatdown is very skill required, but those skills are quite different from the cycle ones.
2:20 I would say that as far as spamming your win conditions first play, its easier for cycle players to recover from hog+ice golem or miner+bats at the bridge first play not working out for them because they have cheaper cards in general, and golem or lava hound in the back first play is considered braindead because if the opponent has the right starting hand or deck it can be super hard to recover. People that put golem in the back first play usually just arent thinking or don't care what their opponent does the first minute of the game. Doesn't stop me putting lava the back first play half the time😅
i think it depends on if different matchups have different answers, and from what i've personally seen, cycle decks defend all attacks the same way, with a cycle of: structure>long range>log>mini tank>repeat, all in the same position and everything, that's why i think those are the low skill. some decks are higher skill when you need to play differently to defend different things
Idk, i feel like cycle is more skilled overall (not considering matchups because you are absolutly right on that) because 1 mistake will lose you the game.
depends on the cycle deck. Any hog deck is usually substantially easier to play than any Royale hogs deck. That argument isn't necessarily true as cycle players can make more than 1 mistake it depends on the severity of said mistake. Usually it's the other way around and beatdown players cannot make mistakes as their cards cost more, and tbh micros the one thing that cycle players need to know that beatdown doesn't are really easy to learn.
I use a combination of both strategies. My strategy is: I use light low HP cards 4/8 which help me rotate my best down cards faster. It contains log, Ice Gaint, guards and Ice-wizard. It takes care of defense. The 4 major cards of my deck are meant for two things- they should remain on the arena for sometime that means a decent HP and the benefit should subsist till elixer cost is recharged. So I keep replacing those 4 cards, at only point of time I at least has 2 on the arena. It has knight (evo), tombstone (placed behind tower to slow down troops and when an Ice golem is infront it becomes a push) And a dart goblin to get value. I also have a MK The first 2 minutes has 3 elixir at almost 15 seconds. So I use knight and light subsisting troops to damage towers and defend with cycle troops. The main focus of first 2 mins is to get positive trades. Then when elixir doubles I empty my bar before end of 1:01 so when it refills I keep sending waves of MK, not playing cycle cards. I build up resources and use it once.
Main advantage of beatdown is the 'elixer advantage' that dropping like a pekka or golem in the back gives vs cycle. DIfficult to explain but good players understand.
IMO a thing to consider, most casual players aren't playing with very good devices and tend to lag meaning they cant consistently pull off the timing based interactions which cycle decks are best known for. Causal players are the majority, I assume most of them run cycle decks because of the stigma against "no skill beatdown" decks and in turn lose to no fault of their own the device, but blame the beatdown deck they couldn't defend by calling it no skill. (idk if i described it well but it almost makes a negative feedback loop where the stigma always wins)
in seven years of playing Clash Royal, I have played absolutely all types of decks, absolutely all cards and combinations. your deck does not show the skill, your gameplay does
It kinda shows. Like if you top 10k with remiely deck, you are worse than top 3k goblin giant player. But when playing top 10k and see goblin giant or some firecracker hog freak, these players 80% chances doesnt have a grand challenge completed. But when you play top 10k graveyard, or miner control player, they more likely to have better achievements. It means there is a differenc. Also if I see a top 300 badge player in top 10k, im sure he's playing some control deck. Because you just cant be top 300 and lose in top 10k with beatdown, but with control its harder
The only deck I generally consider "no skill" are decks that fish for wins. These decks have 40-50% winrates because they aren't reliable, they just pray either the enemy messes up or they win the starting hand coin flip. If you lose to Ebabrs Rage Freeze one time, your deck isn't bad, especially if you just lost the chance and your swarms or kite units were in the back of your hand and the enemy cheesed a tower at 2:30. Same goes to 2v2 Goblin Barrel Mirror Clone, the deck is terrible, but there is always the risk the enemy has a perfect starting hand while your Arrows are 3 cards away.
i think any card that seriously moves the onus of optimal play from you to your opponent is a pretty good candidate for being low skill. (goblin barrel, megaknight, graveyard, a lot of beatdown decks) another take would be any card that demands a lot of attention from the opponent, be that your average ranged splash card midladder players like to throw down behind the megaknight, the megaknight itself, goblin barrels, the reworked ram rider, hog (if you don't have a building) and there's also just evos in general, because playing without any into someone with 2 is painful as hell because every other cycle the game just becomes much harder to defend when a bs mechanic is introduced to a card that nullifies its own weaknesses or makes defending/attacking several times easier
Okay but we know that there’s one card in particular which the usage of instantly transforms a card from “any amount of skill” to “no skill.” If you know what I’m talking about, then congratulations-you agree.
There was an inazuma 11 episode I watched where they said the best play against a defensive team is more defense What I do against cycle players is defend until we are in double elixir upward and then I overwhelm them with big troops Playing cycle players are easy wins for me now
I think golem/lava in the back is more hated than hog first play because hog first play is generally a smart play while lava/golem first play is generally dumb
Btw there are ways you can create a no skill deck. A deck full of midladder cards might not be too effective, but that's because the ceiling of what you can do isn't too high, so to master a deck like that you don't need any skill (again, even if it stops working at a certain point)
I used to play cycle a lot and this is the way I see it: Playing cycle is easier because your cards cost less so you can afford to allocate 1,2,3 or 4 etc. elixir to defense depending on what your opponent plays and you'll get away with it because you have tower side advantage. When you aren't paying cycle you don't have as much flexibility because all your options are more committal, so you need to think more critically about what you can and cannot afford to place down, especially when it takes longer to get back to In short, cycle is like using a scalpel and heavy decks are like using a chainsaw. You can't be as precise so you need to make up for it with macro, which is definitely harder than micro
You know, thank you for being an awesome Clash creator. I've been watching Gratz but I've been looking for a replacement for his content ever since I learned of that one creepy and very self-produced incident. Your content more than makes up for it.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
Special thanks to Juuso14 for helping me a bit with the beatdown section
Your logic in this video, along with your conclusion, makes absolute sense. Keep up the great work, my dude.
Abdod if I want to rage/goblin curse a goblinstein during his ability should I target the scientist or the monster?
Raging him doesnt work
@@someonejustsomeone1469 curse is a better combo. Yet a worse spell overall
counter-push decks are most advanced. Aka Mega Knight decks.
If i lose to it
it usually boils down to pekka in my opinion
best anwer possible
Relatable
True
real
what makes a deck high skill: I play it and I win most of the time
what makes a deck low skill: I lose to it more than once
same lol
By this definition. You are saying the opposite of what is true
@@antoniosanastasiadis thats the point, its just double standards of people out here who cant take a loss
how can we trust the information that comes from a goblin giant player
Made me chucklr
@@saxon2 by looking at the current win rates for sparky
Saxon u play miner poison, the most boosted deck in the game's history lmao.
The more stressful a deck and the more micro skills the more skillfull and hard it is.
in the current meta playing sparky takes a lot more skill than all these gay ahh broken decks
It takes skill to actually be good at both archetypes. A good beatdown player has to learn to be patient, how to partially defend, and when to actually make a push. Like most good lava players will play lava in the back and the typical response is their opponent spamming the opposite lane. An unskilled player will use their remaining elixir to defend, while a skilled player well determine “will their push take my tower?” If not then they keep investing elixir in their push, and if it WILL take your tower, then play a few elixir to defend while still having elixir to support your push.
Cycle is more about knowing every interaction and precise placement to get the most out of your cards. That’s why people feel like their entire 30 elixir push being defended by cannon and musketeer is unfair, but in reality it’s kinda…. fair play. With cycle, 9/10 if you brainlessly spam your win con (whether it be hog, piggies, drill etc.) You will get some damage, but you will lose your tower due to overinvesting. For example, if I were playing piggies cycle and playing my pigs every time I have them, it would be very easy for my opponent to stack defending units and build up a bigger counterpush. Cycle is really about outcycling your opponents counters, while gaining an elixir advantage by defending with cheap cycle cards.
There’s a lot more I could discuss, but I feel like I covered the difference in the two.
Yeah I like what you wrote and definitely agree with it. I think people should try playing with the opposite deck in order to understand it better and see that it takes skill. Lots of cycle players just say that “all beatdown does is ignore defense and play their entire elixir bar to win the game in one push.” and lots of beatdown players say “all cycle does is spam their win con over and over and defend my 30 elixir push with .1 elixir.” Trying different decks will help you see that everything takes skill even if it is a different set of skills.
@@EvolvingSkiesEnthusiast ice golem kite musketeer cannon is best defense fr fr
Problem with cycle is that you just have to memorize some placements and you can effectively counter any beatdown strategies
@@Cwmaltacc90not really, it’s easy to throw away an entire game due to misreading your opponent’s cycle or even just playing your cards in the wrong millisecond. Countering actually good beatdown decks can be crazy tough as a cycle player. (That is if you aren’t hard countering with wizard/exe nado vs lavaloon or smth)
@@Cwmaltacc90 like antennas to heaven
i think we all agree elixir golem is no skill
Winning against him is no skill
@@spaghettidude2984 tf r u yappin about
I kinda like that card, since it usually allows me to make big counterpush I wouldn't normally be able to do.
If my opponent places elixir golem I already know I’m winning the match 😂. I like seeing them
you probably aren’t even uc
As a player with 70 years of expirience I just wanted to say that both beatdown and cycle are gay.
WE found the siege player
@LitterallyJustaPlasticBag
Nah, I main Poco.
so the only two options
why am i even watching this i havent played clash royale ever since they added lvl 15
Idk i was playing in 2018
🫡
FR same
I remember being top 200 in PEKKAS playhouse in early beta
I just watched because I was curious what would be brought up. I stopped playing two(?) years ago or so. I don't even remember exactly why - if it was the constant awful matchups, toxic players, evolutions, or a silly mechanic, or a combination; but I'm not going back - I'd be far too rusty to enjoy myself, have very few evolutions, and would end up wanting to send my phone into orbit again. The game was good while it lasted, but I've been burned by it too hard. Man, it is good to rant.
If it's Mega Knight and E-barbs then it's 100% no skill
Bonus if both cards are in the same deck. Throw a goblin barrel in it too for good measure
No no my level 15 Ebarbs rage so much skill trust
Nahhh, I think you did fight with me in a match so that's why you said that, also you forgot about mini pekka in the same deck😂
you are the one with 0 skill imo. mk decks are very hard, mk bait sees top play from time to time out of sheer skill
E-barbs and mega knight are shit, they are just mid ladder meances at this point
8:18 perfect rocket
Man that s me
Chief Pat Rocket
Final round: rocket defense
Ryley Rocket
no skill
I think it'd be a decent way to tell whether the deck requires skill or not to see how many good matchups it has in the meta. gg pekka has like 75% of matchups as really good ones, so obviously it's easier to play. Same with mortar bait last season, whereas something like 3m or sparky has barely any good matchups so it'd be relatively harder to play.
you are absolutely right, less counters deck has, lower skill it requires. i think there will never be a balance between all cards because some of them get nerfed while the others get kind of rise, so there will be new meta decks in every balance changes update. it means that in every meta there will be decks that are easier to play than others. sorry for grammar tho😭
fr, people think sparky doesn't take skill... like bro, with the amount of counters it has
This makes sense to think, but it would also mean to say that some decks are high skill when in reality they are just harder to play because they're weaker in the meta
3m on top 😤
i agree but not really. just because a deck counters another deck in theory doesnt mean its not skill reliant in that matchup. there are certain types of matchups where deck A should counter deck B, but because both players are equally low skilled deck B wins because deck A is harder.
its true that a deck can be less skilled if they have less counters, but that doesnt mean the deck is skillless. hog 2.6 is a good example. even though it doesnt have many direct counters, its still a pretty skillful deck.
If the deck has mega knight=no skill
99,9% midladder players: damn it 😢
exactly
And Pekka
Mega knight sucks
If u completely remove mega knight's attack damage it will be skilled
I mainly play a Hybrid Deck focused around mainly counterpushes, using cards to defend an opponents push, then punishing any overcommits by sticking a Bandit or Battle Ram in the other lane to force a split defense. Its not meta by any means, but its gotten me consistently to Royal Champion in Path of Legends (Probably to Ultimate Champion if I wasn't playing casually)
And what I usually find is that there is a breakpoint for cycle decks, where their cycle is so cheap you cannot punish them, because they can stall-cycle with Skeletons, Ice Spirit, and Snowball/Log etc to get back to their counter. It feels unfair when you manage to bait out a key card, go to counterpush, and they manage to get that counter back before any troops can reach the tower.
Now, that level of play takes a lot of skill to pull off, yes, but unlike any other deck, there is no ceiling. It essentially gives the Cycle Player a crutch in that as long as they follow the same tried and true strategy, they will win, there is no adapting or strategy, just ensuring you place X Card at Y spot at Z time and you will always win.
I dont mean to beat a dead horse, but its why I hate Hog 2.6. No matter where I am in Path of Legends, from Bronze all the way up to Royal Champion, its the same. Every single game against that cycle deck is the same, 3 minutes of them getting minor chip damage while I hope they misplay just enough to where I can build up a push they cant stop so easily (because again, a 4 elixir cycle means they can juggle a push and get their counter back even if you bait it out OR they misplay).
Its not unskilled, but it is 'unskilled', if you catch my meaning. No deck should be perfect. There should be weaknesses that both players need to concider and play around. If you know your deck struggles against air, then maybe hold onto those archers until its safe, or if you know your opponent only has one counter against YOUR push, wait until theyre forced to use it before commiting. Turbo-Cycle Decks dont have to because technically their entire deck is always in their hand to be played when needed, and so the only weaknesses come from the cards themselves, and the skill of the player, not anything on the opponents end.
Ignoring that one specific archetype, none of them can truly be concidered unskilled, because they have weaknesses that require skill to overcome. And so the only unskilled decks, again, are those that rely solely on the power of their cards over any form of strategy (which tbh tends to be Cycle anyways since they can more easily exploit Clash Royales latest P2W scheme or broken card. Remember Phoenix Cycle? That was so much fun.). If a game is truly balanced with no problem cards, then there shouldnt be any unskilled decks, because there will be no crutches outside of the potential hard counter deck, and poorly made, aka unskilled, decks would be punished.
The embodiment of "If I lose to it, then it is unskilled"
@@Nemesis-ww2ph Uh... No? I don't think you read my post if you think that is the case. I said being able to rapidly cycle though your deck is unfair because it makes counterplay impossible, and at the highest skill level, a High Speed Cycle Deck is almost impossible to beat, relying on their mistakes rather than both player's actions.
Note how I said 'at the highest skill level'. Its High skill, low effort. Smh
I also brought up how Cycle Decks tend to exacerbate the effect of OP Troops far greater than any other type.
@@ForgottenFafnir True, it also makes easier to cycle evolutions and defend with tower + cheap carda
"but its gotten me consistently to Royal Champion in Path of Legends" dude you must have rlly low card levels no?
1:58 bro used the meme at its peak
Beatdown:
Attacking: low skill
Defending: expensive and high skill
Cycle:
Attacking: High skill (need more effort to coordinate pushes and save elixir)
Defending: Low skill, cheaper
8:14 best rocket ever!
as a splashyard player i see the beatdown vs cycle discussion as an absolute win.
I Play splashyard as well, he forgot about control decks🙈
yeah same here control decks are just different
splashyard has very few counters to it
@@Wreck1234 Why should it have less counters makes no sense. For example in the currant meta it gets countert by pekka, ram, morta, some lava etc
@@Kimat987 most splashyard variants run evo cage with counters tanks and you have solid air defence for lava
“Cycle vs beatdown”. Me who plays lumberloon freeze 💀
That’s cycle I’d say
Homosexual
1:00 Ace Attorney judge being useful for once
The damage efficiency point at 13:30 is just wrong at a certain level though. Cycle players can literally threaten to take your entire tower with 2 elixir (ice spirit + evo skeletons), meaning they can punish your commitment and stop your push dead in its tracks without comprimising their own defence all too much. If you play a whole prince to punish a golem though, simply playing guards will give you a positive elixir trade and leave the opponent without his major dps card on defence.
People who call any deck boosted, go get a Top 100 finish with the boosted deck if it's so good; deck specific skill is insignificant compared to general player skill like placement, predictions and counting
They're still missing something to get a Top 100 finish even with all of those. Money.
Now i kinda suck i will admit it i play goblin gaint and usually get 8 maybe 10 wins at most playing classic challenge, but i can admit that anyone that plays pekka is boosted af, like i swear to god i just played some random pekka cycle that i found and got 10 wins first try and then won my first and second classic challenge IN A ROW, i dont think ive ever seen any deck more boosted than pekka cycle
When you see the same decks abundant at the top of the leader board for literal months and years it’s fair to say that they’re op
@@aligg9052evo pekka is insanely boosted right now, it's true. Im bummed because i didnt buy it thinking it was going to get cooked after the season, but the healing nerf was very insignificant
honestly the most sane and unbiased CR opinion I've seen
If a card requires no particular tought, positioning or timing to play and just does it's thing while having gimmicks that make it anoying to deal with if you don't have that one card that counters it then it's low skill. See Evo MK, Evo firecraker, etc...
Dont forget pekka
@@weeblordgaming6062 Pekka is fine. Evo pekka is not.
Firecracker has severe brain damage when targeting troops, so u gotta at least have good positioning
@@boragh3913 That's the worst take I've seen.
@@botbrady2392 Pekka Electro wizard is the most brainrot and less skill combo you can use against any beatdown.
You fools, I play sparky, I don't *need* to worry about positioning and skills, I always lose because of lack out countering-counters!
How do you feel when you see an E dragon?
@@cecilthecavetroll9743 God of war. God of pain. Of suffering.
The only no skill deck is the one I lose too
If you play 3m the answer is that heavier cards require more skill to play because a good spell can cancel out your entire push
if you play 3m then you need to change your deck because that card is ass
@no-xi6zd No 3 Muskies is ultra based
3m is the true skill one, with barbar hut
@@fa-q-6226 barb hut op pls nerf
I run a 3M double pekka lumberjack sparky deck.
I play maybe 15 cards in a normal match and have to win with that little bit of choice.
1 bad push and I lose, everything is about counter offenses and split lane bridge rushes.
I literally have to figure out how to defend 3 different cards often split lane with 1 play.
imo the biggest issue is idea of people following meta mostly, which forces other group of players, to use counter for meta, which has another counter from not meta, which has another counter from not meta. In short, people should choose what they are fine with, because every deck has its counter.
7:30 not if my credit card has something to say
All decks take skill. I'd say low cycle decks tend to have more room for outplay, but similarly more room for error.
I think people forget that beat down does take some skill
I have to agree, my worst losses comes from being .1 second late in placing a card or a card being placed 1 tile too low or high.
He didn’t mention bad starting hands as well, sometimes it takes 2 minutes to recover and get into a good card cycle. You’d be down on damage with potentially lower elixir. This sucks for cycle vs cycle matchups as you’re constantly on the defense to try to recover as your opponent keeps taking advantage of your bad starting hand.
@@blindedlvrevery deck in cr requires skill. beatdown is just on the lowest end.
i think the skill required to play a deck are also dictated by the skills some cards take alone, for example if you have some of the highest skill cards in your deck such as tornado, fisherman or magic archer it's gonna be harder to play than a deck that has giant and arrows as their most skilled cards in the deck. but at the end of the day who cares about this stupid discussion, just enjoy the game and play whatever you want as long as you don't spam the crying skeleton pin for 5 minutes straight.
MI MI MI MI MI MI
2:20 with that logic activating the opponents king tower on purpose is skillful risky moves are less likely to be rewarded and therefore less skillful. Unless you know that your opponent can't respond to golem first play it's stupid to do.
That's a fair assessment. One thing I always point out is when playing a beat down deck, you can get caught with your pants down more easily. Because everything is a bigger investment, one bad play and you're behind. Whereas cycle decks, if you make a mistake, you have a lot more opportunities to make up lost elixir. I've always thought that generally picking up a beat down deck is easier, but it's harder to play it at its highest level. The nuisances of a cycle deck take a while to get, with micros and such. But once you have it down, you can go farther as bad matchups are fewer and farther between.
Bruh the entire point of the video is that all decks require skill.It's just that matchups are what determine the amount of skill needed to win.
And yet people are commenting "ebarb/mknight/Egolem /etc is no skill"
🗿🗿💀
Yes All Decks but MK and ebarbs aren’t a deck they are a card😭😭
This video is amazing. I've been a beatdown player since like 2016. I remember using Giant backed up by Witch in early arenas, lol. And now I use one cycle evo PEKKA and evo Wizard.
16:48 the professor has blessed us with knowledge. Take notes
A fast cycle player's worst nightmare is tornado+splash unit since their DPS unit are most likely glass-cannons, so they lose them quickly
10:07 this cracked me up
i know next to nothing about cr, pls tell me how that lord of the rings ahh tower is disaster for blue player
It burns giant troops and He placed it Ages after the Giant died (he had grandpa like reflexes)
5 business days ahh placement
I like that champions stay out of cycle until they die. Imagine having to fight another goblinstein right after killing the first one?
0:42 "to an outside, this probably sounds like WhaaaAAAAAA" hey thats me, im the outsider. Isnt this a kids game? How hard can it be
Its pretty dang hard if you are gonna play on a Competitive level
it's pretty awful it used to be fun though
When a game has been out for more than a few years and has been consistently popular, you can pretty much guarantee people will dedicate their entire life to it and develop some crazy strategies and change the game play forever I.e. Fortnite
@@apachexprime4768 to be fair i know a lot of mid 20s age people who play fortnight on occasion, i dont know a single person who plays this game. My y guess is that the avg age of this game is a lot younger.
Oh my sweet summer child.... even not being at a competitive level with this game is hard.
Abdod, i think the logic makes sense at the end, with the less polarizing matchups and whatnot, but generally with cycle decks you need to learn many more interactions, so i feel its a fair tradeoff.
Haven't you seen the 10 minute long videos explaining every micro interaction with ice spirit countering every card?,
Its a Fair trade off for the average player
But what i meant mostly was if you are playing beatdown in CRL and beating cycle players with it then id argue you are more skilled
@@Abdod I see now- I thought you meant for your average player, not for the most skilled amongus
@@manspence2203 nah im mainly saying skill changes based on the Trophy range or the match up being played which is why there is no such thing as a "No Skill" Deck
I would say there’s 3 kinds of decks: Beatdown, Cycle, and Bait. Bait focuses less on outcycling counters and more on forcing out mistakes from your opponent
I'd argue that bait and control are distinct enough to not be the same kind.
No. Bait can be heavy with recruits or cheap with rocket cycle, it's an entirely different archetype. There also are bridgespam and control which have their own playstyle.
Archetypes in clash are a little weird. The three main archetypes are cycle, beatdown, and control. Practically all decks fit into one of those 3. There are lots of subsets within those however like bait, bridge spam, siege, etc. Classic bait is a control deck but there are cycle bait decks like MM skellies bait and heavier decks like rascals prince bait.
@@someonejustsomeone1469bait is a type of control deck
Graveyard is technically its own thing, bait can be anything between cycle, beatdown, or control. It sounds counterintuitive but although you need to out cycle opponent’s counters with bait, the much larger part of the game is controlling the momentum and having power over what happens in the game. Knowing how to toy with an opponent is what wins with bait at the top level, it’s not just your opponent forgetting that they can’t use their arrows. I’m a bait main, but control is my favorite archetype because I find that you have to equally be very good at your beatdown skills and cycle skills in order to win. But when it works, it works super well.
2:10 because a hog ice golem is a cycle based deck where your goal is to cycle to your win condition and get ahead of your opponents hard counter.
He speaks about the argument when you say that push decks are unskill, because you just setup the attack every time its possible without even thinking. So these beatdown players can reply that 2.6 6 elixir push is also unskill
Conclusion:
Create ur own deck instead of using an meta deck and include cards that are defending the best against meta decks u're playing with
So is Evo Pekka, Megaknight, archer, bomber, spear goblins, arrows, bats, and rage no skill or skill?(level 15,13,11,10,11,9,10,11, respectively)
@@Zayanerd Level 15 evo Pekka and lvl 13 Mega Knight with small levels of another cards sounds pay to win, so if it is pay to win, it can't be skill
@@Kaktus_Minecraft nah I don’t pay lol
@@Kaktus_Minecraft I just invested a lot of materials into mainly pekka, because it’s my favorite card
in the Goblinstein challenge, is my semi-original Evo-Mega-Knight E-Barb Rage Sparky Arrows Ice-Wizard Guards deck no skill(i often destroy players that is in higher arenas with this deck)(this is originally a Goblin Giant deck, but i suck at building targeters
Playing cycle and beat down: boring, rigid, lacks creativity
Cycling beat down: thrilling, loose, exotic
I’d argue it’s cycle, beat down, and seige.
*Control. Most siege decks are control decks
@@eddie992 yeah that’s fair.
I think he was saying that siege and control decks count as cycle. In siege you cycle mortars/bows and then defend. In miner poison, you cycle both of those cards then defend.
I know pretty much nothing about CR. 95% of the time I had no clue what you're yapping about. But it was entertaining.
love your channel man ❤
Finally. And just like that, deckism was no more.
Also the videos are improving so fast, they're funny, entertaining and informative. Thank you Abdod!
Imo beatdown in general isnt noskill, its just that most infamous noskill decks like gobgiany recruits, egolem and giant gy are beatdown that give them a bad rep
I also like cr and touhou, can we be friends on discord if you have it? :3
Don’t forget lavaloon
@@sablesaltfast forward a couple years and one of you will probably end up in an exposé 😂
@@sablesalt sure ig whats your discord
@@Yes-yo9uo sablesalt
I've played all kinds of decks from Golem/Balloon to Logbait and all in-between and I think it might be the most fun in CR I've had in a while.
16:35 Nah, I'd w-hate on 2.6 hog players till the end of time.
Would love to see a 0 cycle evolution for beatdown like golem.
since it cost way more elixir you might only play it twice the entire game.
I Think this is the only way to make it viable
Copying a deck that is meta ❌️
Making an original deck ✅️
Ahh yeah original megaknight bridge spam logbait mirror miner beatdown control cycle pekka deck
Cycle will always be lower skill since the very design of the game favours such archetype. You outlined the facts really well. It's also mirrored at the highest level, in top200 ultimate champion there are currently 0 golem users and 1 lava user. It makes no sense to use them
Golem the back first play is hated because it’s a bad play. All the more reason to hate it if by chance it actually works.
Absolutely agreed! The same can be said about anything at the bridge that’s more than 4 elixir. A hog rider is where I draw my limit, but anything after that is so risky that any competent player with a 50:50 matchup and decent starting hand will completely wreck someone who plays it. People get so angry at golems in the back first play, lumberloon the bridge first play, or hog ice golem first play, because when it works they know that it shouldn’t have.
@@collinsnow2203ram rider and prince also hardly get overly bad trades so I would count them as well
No, it's not. Watch ultimate champion replays in TV Royale and see that most players go for pekka as soon as they can/Lava etc.
The reason you don't wait is that you can catch someone with a bad starting hand and win instantly + you can't defend against a cycle deck regardless. Also, a two tower scenario is better for beatdown, so if you go against xbow/mortar and trade towers, you have the advantage now. It also makes a defensive building much weaker because they can only effectively be placed between the remaining tower and king, which is also very short distance from a pocket push by a beatdown player, you can golem pretty much directly on the tesla or whatever it may be
Oh he actually explained the two tower scenario in the video
Playing golem in the back usually helps me anticipate when my opponent is going to place a building or specific troop, in which I usually have a mini pekka or other ready.
Not to mention they make good meatshields for evo battle ram.
The problem os that cycle can't do anything but defend and spell cycle against beatdown (which as annoying as it is, one mistake and beatdown wins) and beatdown just has to put cards at the back and push, which can be defended easily but if not punished well enough, at double or triple elixir the pushes get too big to defend.
I prefer cycle, even if it is frustrating it uses the main mechanic of the game (which are the cycles, forgetting building your own deck since this can't work because this game is not well balanced enough to run your own deck past arena 14 or so) and beatdown doesn't even have anything clever about it. I think in cycle you need both macro and micro much more than beatdown which consists in spamming tanks at the back, supporting and trying to 3-crown, and when you lose you cry that the other player was spamming stuff at the back. Like, if you're spamming stuff to the other side, the other side will need a lot to defend
Cycles are absolutely braindead
Play cheap cards in rotation and spam
At least with beatdown decks, you have to be way more conservative with how you play
Saying X-bow is skill should be considered a war crime. In all seriousness great video, good points and well developed.
A no skill deck (ignoring overleveled cards, as those are unfair by themselves), is a deck that requires barely any effort to take half a tower in less than a minute or, a deck that consists of spamming a card/spell while your defense is impossible to break through, given the cards you have. This is why 2.6 is hated, if you manage to defend the 200 hog riders they send at you, chances are the earthquakes/poisons they use to counter buildings is enough to take your tower, while you have no power to stop it.
Literally my only counter to it is because I run double pekka and even then they still can out cycle me half the time with hogs
Me: **prepares a reasonable gob barrel cycle deck in arena 8**
My friend: **uses rocket, lighting, fireball and pekka in the same deck and calls it pekka beatdown cycle**
In arena 8 everything can win 😅
Damn,how many more god-like video ideas can Abdod get away with??
(ALSO PLEASE TELL THE DEVS TO MAKE BLACKOUT PERMANENT FOR FRIENDLY CHALLENGES)
I will be Bullying the devs into making it and 4 Card Decks permanent
@@Abdodpls man
If your entire strategy is “I spam down cheap cards to defend while cycling to this one broken card” that’s no skill.
what does boosted mean 0:15
Like cards needs help with other cards
Like hog rider + musketeers
Log + fireball
Ice golem + Cannon
Ice Spirit + skeletons
Boosted means it gives u better ranks than u deserve because its fundamentally broken balance wise
Its kinda like the deck is boosting the players rank
@@yasmenhjabdirashied5895that’s synergy
Its not just about if a deck is a cycle deck or beat down, its mostly about what cards are in the deck. One could play hog 2.6 cycle, which basically everyone considers low skill, but one could also play megaknight balloon, which is also considered low skill
If it’s Logbait, it’s no skill
I see your profile picture...
Oh looks like someone's deck has no spell
@@pipe86122 it does, it’s called logBAIT for a reason
Log bait decks are extremely predictable, that's one of their biggest disadvantages@@Dementia_Gaming69
This guy quits out when his balloon freeze doesn’t connect
Concepts like "skill floor" and "skill ceiling" would be helpful with exploring the nuance of match ups here. That cycle decks have lower highs and higher lows in terms of skill required to win a matchup, whereas beat down might require an insane amount of skill to win some matchups while needing much less to win others means that the skill floors and ceilings are different. "Cycle has a higher skill floor and a lower skill ceiling" would better capture it's less polarized nature than "cycle is lower skill."
15:07 disagree, there are some decks that are no skill!
Name one
@@McDoodleDurp Hog, canon, knight and some other stuff in there is one of the most anoying decks to me. Just cycles the hog and that hes only offense.
@@Max-dx1dwjust because you aren’t able to defend a card, doesn’t mean they don’t have matchup or you’re just not countering it properly, it still takes the same amount of skill playing a good deck to get to the same place either way
@@hugopatel7962 The frustrating part is that the deck has impecable defence and the only ofence it has is ice golem and hog. To me it makes a boring matchup when no offence can get through and the only thing that hits your tower is such a card.
To identify skill in clash royale we need to know the main mechanics of the game.
which are placement , timing , card types and elixir managment; placement and timing are obvious.
the type is what card counter what troop. for example splash counter swarms and zap stop sparky etc (rock paper scissors).
When it comes to skilled deck i think we should take these things into consideration .
🗿Golem decks :
They don't require good placements and fast reaction timing and most cards are expensive so you don't need to keep placing many cards and kite troops as often, but you need to manage elixir well and you can bounce back from your mistakes and overwhelm your opponent (which no one do elixir management in lower ladder).
🏹 Xbow decks :
I Hate xbow but gotta admit. it needs very good elixir management , timing , placement , kite , understanding mechanics and even one mistake can lose you the whole game which is a very high risk (for example even against lavaloon can ignore xbow and attack the other lane and arrow archer , lightning the tesla if needed and you would be screwed for the rest of the game with your xbow exposed)
As someone who has played clash royale since the beginning. I agree with everything in this video. Matchups is easily the difference maker between in making some decks no skill or skill. And is the same reason how meta matter expecially in top ladder / challenges so one meta your deck has a lot of good matchups vs others where they are not as easy. All in all I'd say to choose a deck that plays to your strengths and playstyle. I'd say there's 4 combos that every deck falls between. Fast/slow, defensive/aggressive. Choose what matches your style and get better at that.
2.6 hog cycle highest skill deck ever right in the same spot as miner control
Kinda
Ok so as a cycle player I do admit a lot of cycle players are no-skill, bc when they have a good matchup, they can overcommit, and defend ur entire push easily if they have cards that counter, and its the same with beatdown, when in overtime they build up push after push and dont gain a negative trade even tho the cycle player has an extra tower helping them. Many 2.6 players can get away with going hog ice golem the bridge first play for no good reason, if their opponenent has a bad cycle or gets hard countered by 2.6 and the 2.6 player spams ice golem hogs while being down elixir and still defends perfectly, its understandable that they get pissed, but if they have a good matchup the 2.6 guy will easily lose from it. Also, I was playing lava hound one time agaisnt ice bow (which has a good matchup vs lava), they x-bow first played me and took my tower but they were down 6 elixir and still defended perfectly, because the counter lava.
No, there isn't JUST beat down or cycle. There are plenty of other ways to play that aren't for people who are twelve years old
Please name one
@@jasonadams7617bridgespam (more expensive than cycle and usually has mini pekka, lumberjack, and other high pressure cards)
@@jasonadams7617meh control, siege, dual lane, bait
@@luladrgn9155 those are all just different types of cycle
@@jasonadams7617 yes sure. I love royal recruits double lane brick wall fireball bait with piglets being cycle sure sure
my point was it is not about matchups. its about metahunting. on every patchnote there is always people who picks card that SS just released or poorly balanced, and now they have advantage purely because of stronger cards. and also no ill never accept that elixir golem+healer+rage takes skill.
I think we all agree xbow is the worst card in the game and is the skilled one
is not skilled to just defend the entire 5 min and at x3 elixir just spaming rockets on their tower
@@redmoonxv ''yes i lost for xbow''
i've played this game since it's release to 2 years ago, now i do play it sporadically. I've played for the vast majority of the time rg cycle and other cycles, then i completely switched up and moved to lavaloon.
I can totally agree with cycle and beatdown being very different at their FUNDAMENTS, and so, at what you have to give more importance in the single game.
People wrongly assume lava players just have to not defend.... do it and you'll lose EVERY game. Defending as a lava/beatdown player, in the RIGHT way, is probably even more important than attacking. You CANNOT overcommit on defence, otherways you'll NEVER start a push, if you can make your tower stand up without spending more than what your opponent spent for attacking, then you can push at the next cycle, otherways you CANNOT. For beatdown having a tower up, even with low HP is a very good defence, this is the difference, as it makes your opponent spend more elixir to destroy a tower that you CAN NOW ignore, making him not be able to defend a big push that can even kill him on the spot. Usually they do defend but the yhave to spend even more and more and they end up having a low hp king tower, not considering the possibility to send a lone baloon on the other lane to make them do hard decisions. Beatdown is very skill required, but those skills are quite different from the cycle ones.
No skill is deck that you copied from someone else
You ain't gonna like the game after 12
Control decks are the way to go the longer the game drags on the more BM you can do
2:20 I would say that as far as spamming your win conditions first play, its easier for cycle players to recover from hog+ice golem or miner+bats at the bridge first play not working out for them because they have cheaper cards in general, and golem or lava hound in the back first play is considered braindead because if the opponent has the right starting hand or deck it can be super hard to recover. People that put golem in the back first play usually just arent thinking or don't care what their opponent does the first minute of the game.
Doesn't stop me putting lava the back first play half the time😅
i think it depends on if different matchups have different answers, and from what i've personally seen, cycle decks defend all attacks the same way, with a cycle of: structure>long range>log>mini tank>repeat, all in the same position and everything, that's why i think those are the low skill.
some decks are higher skill when you need to play differently to defend different things
Idk, i feel like cycle is more skilled overall (not considering matchups because you are absolutly right on that) because 1 mistake will lose you the game.
depends on the cycle deck. Any hog deck is usually substantially easier to play than any Royale hogs deck. That argument isn't necessarily true as cycle players can make more than 1 mistake it depends on the severity of said mistake. Usually it's the other way around and beatdown players cannot make mistakes as their cards cost more, and tbh micros the one thing that cycle players need to know that beatdown doesn't are really easy to learn.
that's literally the least true for most cycle. you have cheaper cards to spam and use when mistakes are made. I'm saying this as a cycle player.
That’s the exact opposite. Cycle players can afford to make mistakes. Both are no skill though
i love these videos never stop making them
Thats the plan.....until i run out of topics 🗿 (ill still always try to make them)
I play 2.6 to counter no skill decks and everyone is saying i am no skill xd 😂
I’ve been hard stuck arena 10 but while watching this video I just skimmed all the way into arena 11, thanks for the tips👍🏽
I use a combination of both strategies.
My strategy is:
I use light low HP cards 4/8 which help me rotate my best down cards faster. It contains log, Ice Gaint, guards and Ice-wizard.
It takes care of defense.
The 4 major cards of my deck are meant for two things- they should remain on the arena for sometime that means a decent HP and the benefit should subsist till elixer cost is recharged. So I keep replacing those 4 cards, at only point of time I at least has 2 on the arena.
It has knight (evo), tombstone (placed behind tower to slow down troops and when an Ice golem is infront it becomes a push)
And a dart goblin to get value.
I also have a MK
The first 2 minutes has 3 elixir at almost 15 seconds. So I use knight and light subsisting troops to damage towers and defend with cycle troops. The main focus of first 2 mins is to get positive trades.
Then when elixir doubles I empty my bar before end of 1:01 so when it refills I keep sending waves of MK, not playing cycle cards.
I build up resources and use it once.
Is your win condition the ice giant lol.
What's your rank
Main advantage of beatdown is the 'elixer advantage' that dropping like a pekka or golem in the back gives vs cycle. DIfficult to explain but good players understand.
IMO a thing to consider, most casual players aren't playing with very good devices and tend to lag meaning they cant consistently pull off the timing based interactions which cycle decks are best known for. Causal players are the majority, I assume most of them run cycle decks because of the stigma against "no skill beatdown" decks and in turn lose to no fault of their own the device, but blame the beatdown deck they couldn't defend by calling it no skill. (idk if i described it well but it almost makes a negative feedback loop where the stigma always wins)
in seven years of playing Clash Royal, I have played absolutely all types of decks, absolutely all cards and combinations. your deck does not show the skill, your gameplay does
It kinda shows. Like if you top 10k with remiely deck, you are worse than top 3k goblin giant player. But when playing top 10k and see goblin giant or some firecracker hog freak, these players 80% chances doesnt have a grand challenge completed. But when you play top 10k graveyard, or miner control player, they more likely to have better achievements. It means there is a differenc. Also if I see a top 300 badge player in top 10k, im sure he's playing some control deck. Because you just cant be top 300 and lose in top 10k with beatdown, but with control its harder
10:30 it also makes it impossible to kite. Cycle decks often use the entire arena to kite, but cant do that with a tower down
The only deck I generally consider "no skill" are decks that fish for wins. These decks have 40-50% winrates because they aren't reliable, they just pray either the enemy messes up or they win the starting hand coin flip. If you lose to Ebabrs Rage Freeze one time, your deck isn't bad, especially if you just lost the chance and your swarms or kite units were in the back of your hand and the enemy cheesed a tower at 2:30. Same goes to 2v2 Goblin Barrel Mirror Clone, the deck is terrible, but there is always the risk the enemy has a perfect starting hand while your Arrows are 3 cards away.
Such an underrated Sonic track, great background choice!
i think any card that seriously moves the onus of optimal play from you to your opponent is a pretty good candidate for being low skill. (goblin barrel, megaknight, graveyard, a lot of beatdown decks)
another take would be any card that demands a lot of attention from the opponent, be that your average ranged splash card midladder players like to throw down behind the megaknight, the megaknight itself, goblin barrels, the reworked ram rider, hog (if you don't have a building)
and there's also just evos in general, because playing without any into someone with 2 is painful as hell because every other cycle the game just becomes much harder to defend when a bs mechanic is introduced to a card that nullifies its own weaknesses or makes defending/attacking several times easier
Okay but we know that there’s one card in particular which the usage of instantly transforms a card from “any amount of skill” to “no skill.” If you know what I’m talking about, then congratulations-you agree.
There was an inazuma 11 episode I watched where they said the best play against a defensive team is more defense
What I do against cycle players is defend until we are in double elixir upward and then I overwhelm them with big troops
Playing cycle players are easy wins for me now
15:55 is a surrender moment. Like goblin barreling a Miner perfectly.
I think golem/lava in the back is more hated than hog first play because hog first play is generally a smart play while lava/golem first play is generally dumb
Btw there are ways you can create a no skill deck. A deck full of midladder cards might not be too effective, but that's because the ceiling of what you can do isn't too high, so to master a deck like that you don't need any skill (again, even if it stops working at a certain point)
Your channel deserves more recognition👍. Nice vid BTW
I used to play cycle a lot and this is the way I see it:
Playing cycle is easier because your cards cost less so you can afford to allocate 1,2,3 or 4 etc. elixir to defense depending on what your opponent plays and you'll get away with it because you have tower side advantage.
When you aren't paying cycle you don't have as much flexibility because all your options are more committal, so you need to think more critically about what you can and cannot afford to place down, especially when it takes longer to get back to
In short, cycle is like using a scalpel and heavy decks are like using a chainsaw. You can't be as precise so you need to make up for it with macro, which is definitely harder than micro
You know, thank you for being an awesome Clash creator. I've been watching Gratz but I've been looking for a replacement for his content ever since I learned of that one creepy and very self-produced incident. Your content more than makes up for it.
15:21 Ya know, you're right about that XD I appreciate you saying that we all need to be more mature too!