ECHO Finale BREAKDOWN and ENDING EXPLAINED - X-Men and Daredevil Connecion EXPLAINED
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2024
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Echo Episode 5 is filled with marvel easter Eggs and Choctaw symbolism. In this video, we break down whether or not Maya is a mutant, where her powers come from, and what role she could play in Avengers vs. X-Men. Plus, how all of this is leading into daredevil: Born Again.
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Written by Colton Ogburn ( / coltonogburn )
Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, Lee Mazzio, and Ethan Lavinsky
#Echo #EasterEggs #Daredevil 
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I think the family BBQ was supposed to be in juxtaposition to her Sunday dinners with Fisk; day vs night, outdoors vs indoors, relaxed vs formal, etc.
family bbq lol
Show was far deeper and more heartfelt then expected. Maya is an excellent character.
right!
Did anyone else notice the sign Maya’s mom used for “echo,” in her vision of them in the truck? It’s not the ASL sign for echo, but it is reminiscent of hand handprint on Echo’s face in the comics.
I’m that case that was very likely Taloa giving Maya her superhero moniker, in the form of a sign name, which only a Deaf person can give.
This show meant a lot to me. My mother (Cherokee) past away when I was young and I felt lost for a long time. It was only recently that I began to return back to my heritage and feel that connection with her again, and my Nana who gave me my name. Seeing all that come through in this show really hit me hard, but in a good way. I wish she lived to see this show but I did, and she echos through me as did her mother and her mother's mother.
Thank you for sharing.
Lmao what 🤣 cry me a river
Hurt people try to hurt others. @@tyleraviles4518
What if Fisk actually does speak a bit of sign language, but refuses to do so as a power move?
He did the same thing in Daredevil season 1, pretending to not speak Chinese and have an interpreter to showcase his superiority.
I was thinking the exact same thing. I thought at the final showdown seen he would have surprised her by knowing extensive sign language
Oh I love that!
Am I misremembering? I swear he did a bit of signing at some point. To me it represented that. He doesn’t care to sign and wants to show that he doesn’t need to although he knows how to
@@fabiocxx yes he did some basic signing in some flashbacks "I love you" and "you and I, we're family" to emphasise that message
"the wise man plays the fool"
I really like how Maya and at least a couple other of her ancestors already developed unique skill sets on their own before they got the ancestral power up.
They changed her powers from being a basic mimic like Taskmaster to being able to access the skills and abilities of her ancestral line. Maya is a capable combatant on her own, but now she can tap into gunslinging and healing etc.
I saw it as Maya’s powers being mystical in nature. Similar to the people of Tao Lo, K’un-Lung, etc.
Exactly.
I agree. But mystical powers aren't specific though. It would make sense why at least Maya mom would be a mutant, because she has a specific healing power. It would make more sense if magic users didn't have specific powers. And they just had a bunch of vague and unrelated powers.
Agreed. Of course it can be said it's a mutation but there are spiritual powers in Marvel as well. Like what you said and take Magik for example. Mutant powers and magikal ones.
Yes and it could aling her to Blade, Moonknight, Werewolf by knight, Agatha and Dark knight maybe with cameos from Wang, Dr Strange or Wanda
I feel like Disney forced them to include those powers I think it was dumb and was unnecessary she’s supposed to be able to mimic people’s powers and I thinks that’s way cooler then changing her powers it was so stupid how they did it too
I wanted to also mention that the sun symbol Maya's been wearing has grown on different outfits since the show started. It was a small one above her heart, then a larger central one, then finally a really big one on her lower right side. I don't know the symbolism of a setting sun that's getting larger, but there you go.
I think her father also had a sun tattoo on his neck
Black Knife people were listed in the end credits.
I like the power echoing through generations.
Family barbecues are things people do for real, so it didn't bother me.
It weird but every culture seems to have a barbecue that is specific to their culture. Each is different, each group cooks something different over an open flame. I had never realized how many cultures and ethnicities break out the grill until I moved to Hawaii and was adopted into families.
11:10 regarding the inconsistencies with the hammers i just assumed that in Daredevil they showed us how it actually happened but, since people's memories are not reliable & are actually quite fluid, in Echo his memory of the hammer is just naturally a bit different from reality... cause the themes & meaning are all still there & consistent.
I was thinking this exact same thing.
I haven't seen all of Echo but I was wondering if the ballpen hammer was used to kill Vanessa.
he did show her the hammer beforehand tho, in the casino hotel so that wasnt in his mind?
Maya showed Kingpin the Echos of his past. I think she was trying to break him out of his own mental hell. He's still reliving the memory his father hurting his mother even day. She also showed him the memory of the ice cream vendor. He remembers every kill knowing it was wrong but what's the mindset he's in he still loses himself to his rage. She tried and failed. Instead of trying to erase what's been trapping him behind his own self-made prison bars, instead of trying to leave the worst of his own instincts, he's to afraid. He'd rather stay a rabbit in a snowstorm. I really liked what they tried to do even though it was executed kind of sloppily. Still I do stand by the fact that I think they treated the Legacy characters perfectly and overall I really did like this show. It is still very messy and has a lot of flaws but it had really cool action and character moments. 7.5/10 for the whole show in my opinion!
...i swear if they talk no jutsu Kingpin into being a good guy, I will never forgive Marvel. That's clearly the direction they're headed in.
I think he is gonna run for mayor, I don't think he's gonna end up being a good guy though.@@ccelite3782
@@ccelite3782 I really don't see them doing that at all. This whole storyline will probably be wrapped up in Spider-Man 4. I think the whole point of the finale of Echo was trying that and failing. Fisk is too far gone by now.
Cool
Feel like it could have made him even deadlier and more dangerous like he is in the comics. She has now taken away that pain that he held onto. Now any anger/pain/rage can be more focused on what he wants. Power etc
I think I've enjoyed these reviews as much as the show itself. Ryan and the other writers really have great insight on the show's overall purpose and meaning. I totally agree on their take to leave the spiritual aspects alone and not overexplain it with aliens.
Solid show, so refreshing having something new and a character to care for going forwards! So much real history brought into the story is honestly heartwarming. I also don’t mind not having a big battle finale, even though it ended quite quickly. Street level is setting up very nicely!
- I love Maya 😍❤️🔥.
- Enjoyed the scenery
of her home Town
- Enjoyed the action scenes
- Definitely loved seeing KP & DD again
- Wish it had more episodes to flush things out instead of rushing
+ the editing could've been better
- Binge model >>>>>
7/10
Definitely needed at least 8. I wanted to be there for longer.
i like that her power was literally drawing strength from her ancestors, my grandpa was the last of my family to live on choctaw territory and this show has been really cool for me to see an mcu version of our creation story and history and current culture on screen. the healing hands stuff was a little disappointing since it does point more in the mutant powers direction, but i guess I'm not terribly upset with it either.
The picnic at the end of Echo wasn't just cute. It was the first time that she re-embraced her real family. She fought it, was taking advantage of it to pursue her own ends (as Kingpin would) or was dealing with issues within it until this exact moment. Even they seemed surprised. So it's cool.
This picnic was deserved.
Acts of Communion
A picnic at the end like She-Hulk. So original.
@@AmyKaylasVegasshe hulk was a terrible show the writing in it was so sad 😂 I would never in my life watch that ever again even hulk in that show was SADDD and his son looked HORRIBLE nah bro
@@AmyKaylasVegasWhat a calamity.
Great show, cool to see Choctaw culture embraced and included within the production. They did this right.
I liked the change in powers. Making her echo the abilities of her ancestors is more interesting than a rehash of Taskmaster. The idea that she can echo the abilities into her family members was a cool twist too.
This shit was wack
@@smoketwo818 what do you consider good
she literally became Choctaw Avatar. she even spiritbent Kingpin into submission. though personally I would have wanted a traditional finale beatdown.
I loved the twist.
She still has the mimic powers.
If you watch the show with CC on you’ll notice that the first ASL interpreter in the limo with Fisk and Maya is credited as ‘ASL interpreter 1’. So you kinda know where it’s going.
As someone who is not too familiar with Echo in the comics, I loved the lineage story line - the theme of family throughout this show was so well done ❤
This entire coverage of Echo has been top notch. Thank you for all you guys efforts.
The scene between Maya and her mom brought a tear to my eye.
I loved this show, thanks for covering it!
I enjoyed Echo, I can definitely see Kingpin being a street level Thanos. Would love to see the Defenders come back.
Defenders was a terrible show because everyone had the same power, no ranged weapons, no aerial combatants, the team needed variety and versatility.
@@carlosvillanueva8530 L take they were different, you clearly never watched any of their shows. Don't like that all of them are street level, then don't watch it 🤷♂
@@ABadJokeYT I didn't
Defenders was dope. Miserable people just like to hate on everything.
Defenders and Netflix shows are miles better then any Disney plus shows
I enjoy the kingpin healing part it reminds me of the story of the Great law of Peace of the Haudenosaunee and how “Hiawatha” goes and retrieves medicines to heal “thadotaho” (the entangled one) even though thadotaho had killed Hiawathas daughters, it was that act along with Jagohsase combing the snakes from his hair that broke thadotaho away from the darkside turning him to peace, it’s like the ultimate form of Love trumps hate.❤
I had fun watching this and was eager to see each episode. And it wasn't too long, it'd make a good movie-sized chunk of viewing. As far as her powers go, I wouldn't be surprised if this was as big as it gets and moving forward she merely taps into some knowledge or small trait that helps her now and then. I don't think she'll be the next Kahhori, and I don't think she's a mutant. I think it's okay to have unexplained generational powers that are kinda mystical.
Ryan you guys killed the coverage of this one kudos to you
I binged watched it yesterday since it was my day off and I loved the show!
Did the same and for the same reason.
Such a beatufil show. Did not expect to like it this much. That scene between Maya and her mom brought tears to my eyes.
I really liked this show, I know is not gonna be for everyone, but I still really enjoyed maya and her journey (also I love your dog and the voice you make, so adorable)
The neck tattoo was seen on Zane and all of his men. Zane is the MCU version of Teodor Zarco, the leader of the Black Knive Cartel in the comics. And Zane's goons were credited as "Black Knives".
It is in up there as a good series. I really love the show. Alot of great acting. Ms. Cox was amazing. Looking forward to DD again. I really like the street side of these series.
Wait why everyone said daredevil born again will be cancel ? & They're some rumours said that they'll change the title from born again to S4 . Is it true ?
Vanessa was announced for Born Again even if it's a different actress than who played her in the Netflix show.
So excited for the Devil Reign storyline in Daredevil: Born Again after Echo!
I thought it was pretty clear that when he said "I lost someone who i love" he was referring to maya.
Thank you, I rewound that to see if he had said "love" or "loved".
Maya doesn't have to be a mutant I mean other heroes in the MCU has abilities as well but aren't mutants so Maya doesn't have to be one let he just have abilities.
Kind of like black panther tbh
But where do the abilities come from? I agree it seems more mystic than mutation. I don't think Maya will end up being a mutant, but it seems like she has mystic powers, mystic strength. Dr. Strange, Moon Knight, Black Panther. I really like Maya and I have been discouraged about the MCU lately, but this Echo series has given me a small seed of hope that maybe Feige hasn't given up, hasn't lost his mind, maybe hasn't lost all control, and may deliver us another decade of 80% good movies, culminating in another epic BIG SCREEN event. I want to see Maya, Moon Knight, Daredevil, Luke Cage, and JJ, running at Dr. Doom's army with the Avengers, some X-Men, and the FF by her side. It can be done.
What a great combo Ryan and Colton make! Awesome writing and presentation!
I actually think that Marvel did a pretty slick bait-and-switch promo campaign. From the ads and trailers you'd think Echo would be kicking ass for 3/5ths of it and get maybe one episode of family backstory in Tahama. Instead, it was an improvement on the Marvel episode formula that intensified the occasional confrontations but spent nearly the entire series planted in Choctaw culture. So the Netflix Daredevil crew showed up and was treated to one of the better proper Marvel tv show that seriously leaned into the cultural awareness--they had the Choctaw nation read the script and sign off on the whole thing, and then credited them at the end. Super classy. Hopefully the show worked for everyone.
Wait why everyone said daredevil born again TV show will be cancel ? & They are some rumours said they will change the title from born again to S4 . Is it true ?
they are going to make it more similar to the netflix daredevil series after backlash to she hulk, DD born again leaks and Marvel's childish tone generally@@DEMA_F-zt6on
@@DEMA_F-zt6on it's getting reworked. I suspect it wasn't up to the latest (higher) writing standards, which Feige and co. have cracked down on after a disastrous 2023. We'll see.
@@danielhenderson3753yeah, I think that's exactly it. Remember, they hired writers from the Arrowverse initially for it, which had me super worried. Guess they laid the rotten egg I was expecting and the higher ups sniffed it out and said "nope, try again" before it hit us. And for that I'm grateful.
@@ghiggs8389 likewise. I am sooo grateful.
Also fisk crying looks EXACTLY like Fisk from the animated Fox Spiderman show when he was trying to climb that ladder to escape the cops with his dad. Very spot on.
Not a mutant. Probably a Great Spirit link passed down through from Chafa to current generation.
If Namor's mutant backstory was slightly changed to make it more indigenous, then I suppose it could work for Maya as well. I think Marvel could go either way with this since Echo at her core is still a "street level character", so if they want to make her a mutant, cool if not then it still works.
Roxxon was also featured as an easter egg in the often overlooked Helstrom series, which was rather thrilling for the first couple episodes, but sadly went downhill with the final ones.
Very small thing... but Echo throwing out what kingpin gave her to understand each other is just disposing of Kingpin's manipulation and motivation, the whole functionality of the object is different from kingpin himself because it can be done with pure intention so most likely it wouldn't be wrong if she decides to reshape that tech to her own meaning.
The first scene of the series where the creator emerges from the cave looked a lot like teragenesis to me. If so, that makes Echo and Inhuman, and maybe then all Inhumans are mutants in the MCU? Maybe a way to finally bring in Quake to join Echo and Ms Marvel? (Also, I believe that lake and lake house is the same one as in Avengers Endgame.)
I'm not sure. In some ways Inhuman would fit better, since they're a lineage of people from an event way in the past, and they pretty much all have powers of some sort. Mutants are also shown to be able to reproduce and Make More Mutants, but are often just a random genetic mutation in an otherwise human lineage. They could go either way with it being a family line of powered individuals.
We've not really seen much made of Mutants yet, although there have been strong hints that certain characters are Mutants, and we have seen some confirmed Mutants in other universes/timelines/whatever they want to call those end credits scenes.
I hope luke cage saw that same interview ,and ends up running against kingpin for mayor 😂.
Ah I love that since you put out this video it’s been announced bullseye/poindexter from daredevil is coming back! Only catching up with your echo breakdowns now!
13:57 going out of your way to leave out Iron Fist 😂
I didn't take Echo being given super/mutant powers. More along the line of the traditional healer that many traditions have and a way to visualize this. I loved this season as they integrate both her deafness and Choctaw heritage. I hope that they do another series with her as the focus. And a Kingpin centered series would also be awesome. But I'll watch Vincent D'Onofrio read a phone book.
I think it was solid. Def could have used a couple more episodes to give more back stories on the other characters. I think even Vickie could have used a little context. Seeing him and maya when they were little, maybe getting a black crow backstory and showing him bringing Vickie into his world….
I didn’t love the ending but otherwise I think it was pretty solid.
The Defenders saga is added to the MCU timeline on Disney+
Real Defenders are Doctor Strange, Valkyrie, Moondragon, Black Knight and The Hulk.
I don't remember if you mentioned this in the previous episode but they spent CGI money on making kingpins eye patch look like some future tech that was healing him. That indicates to me that that little tidbit is important somehow. Otherwise they wouldn't have spent the CGI money on it I believe.
Chekhov's gun says it's so.
MCU tech is next level.
Good stuff
in many native cultures we have what they call “spirit retrieval” were we go back in our memories in a meditative state and retrieve our spirit from a past trauma to align ourselves on the correct path we were destined to be on, as depicted in the show Mayas mother brings maya back to the car crash were Maya watched her mother die the mothers spirit then puts her hands on mayas head which heals maya from her past trauma which originally sets maya down a dark path from childhood.
I enjoyed watching Echo and was expecting it to go in s different direction based on the trailer, but was pleasantly surprised how it played out. I did get a little worried when Maya attempted to heal Fisk in that we would not see the Kingpin, but I believe that he will be more clear headed in his ambition to rule over New York and possibly the world.
Echo is a descendent of a powerful savior that saves her people from the cave collapse so I think it's perfectly fine for her to have powers. Although she is a badass in her own right. Speaking of superhuman, Alaqua Cox is amazing! As a hearing impaired person myself and learning ASL I loved this show. D'Onofrio, as always, is brilliant. Long live the King!
Tantoo and Graham first worked together as a couple in Dances with Wolves. They were very young and now to see them playing basically the same couple except modern and older 😊 is amazing
Perfect just finished the last episode.
I love your work guys. I gotta say though, that foley you guys threw in the young Fisk hammering his father had me rolling 😂...omg that was so silly and funny. Totally Three Stooges.❤
I really liked this show a lot! Loved how original it was
I personally was hoping for a more bad-ass, actiony finale.
Thank you for covering this properly *episode by episode), even if they did release it all in one day
Colton is the man!!
its not his father or vanessa, he was talking about losing maya
The dream sequences of the Kingpin are just that, dreams and memories. They are not canonical flashback.
Kingpin Reminded Me Of Dr Claw Sitting in Front Of All Those TV Screen
Hey Ryan.. The Crossed Sword pointing downwards in heraldry means, the fight/war is over. Most often associated with those that have served in the Navy.
I feel like I am on an island. The show felt disjointed and “jumpy.” I can’t recall a single scene that really stood out other than the daredevil cameo.
At least Secret Invasion had the poem scene with Fury and his wife that was amazing.
Loved the Jessica shout out
Kingpin knows countless languages. He knows ASL. Same as he knows Chinese and keeps it a secret in the Netflix shows. It’s about power. Manipulation. Never showing his full hand. Using Bonnie to translate wasn’t necessary. It was manipulation. A threat
DOUG!!!! RYAN!!!!! WRITER COLTON!!! CAMEO JESSICA!!! THANKS to all of you for wrapping this up so well!!!!! And of course Maya is a mutant!!!! And look: Marvel loves B'que!!!! LOL!!!! And yes for Defenders 2.0!!!
Regarding the hammer, it could also be possible that we aren't seeing how events actually happened, but as Fisk remembers them. As a counselor, I'll say that trauma can affect people's memories in weird ways.
A LuLu Clemons shout out was the unexpected joy this video provided, hitting the subscribe button
I didn’t expect to be so moved by the acting in the series. I was so happy when Henry was with the family at the end, and when Scully and Chula reunited or at least seemed to. I also got a kick out of seeing/hearing our local NY1 reporters in the final post credits clip!
I liked how it ended with her healing Fisk (or at least trying to) subverting the usual punch em up.
Day two of waiting for episodes 1, 2 and 5 breakdown of percy jackson, promised 8 days ago
„Avengers lol you‘ll see“ 😂
That caught me off guard, I found that so funny for some reason 😂
Be honest, this was way better then we all thought it'd be.
The swirly water thing reminds me of Soul Reaver.
Oh and the Fibbonacci sequence doesn't double itself every iteration. Each iteration is the sub of the previous two. For example, 5 is the sum of 3 and 2 and 8 is the sum of 5 and 3.
The law and order shirt is 🔥🔥🔥
I was wondering if Kingpin’s own memories from the Daredevil are not accurate, as is true of many traumatic experience and that explains the inconsistencies
Echo series, a show that was hype from the beginning, led to somewhat a final battle disappointment but ends with questions for the future. I entered this show with expectations to be just like the daredevil series with a well balance of extreme fight scenes but also story telling and life challenges.
really enjoyed the show
I really enjoyed the series 👍
I liked the series overall, but I think the ending could've been better.
For Fisk to be taken seriously as a threat he needed some kind of victory, even if it was just a small one (ex killing one of Maya's family members or destroying the house Maya was living in), something to show he means business. It's was the same problem with Kang, how are we suppose to take a major villain seriously if we only him lose. In the original Daredevil Fisk lost, but was able to get a few smaller victories against Matt.
I think Maya would be more of a magical being than a mutant due to her people's origins. Also, I was hoping you would talk about how Kingpin's not wearing white anymore. Apart from that, I really liked the show, but I don't think you could actually understand some parts without watching previous ones. That "Marvel Spotlight" thing seems to be half-baked.
I think you're right about Chafa and the first Choctaw not being from Earth. Not sure how they got inside of him but I think the "cave" they started in was actually the inside of the Celestial Tiamut. The blue glowing water, remember when Ego shared his power with Peter, it was also blue. The answer to is Maya a mutant depends on how that Celestial energy works. Maybe every descendant from Chafa has mutated DNA from the Celestial energy or maybe some of that energy transfers from one generation to the next.
I absolutely loved this series unti it got to the super powers
Why is Ryan trying to make it some big cliche that we see people breaking bread together at the end of the series. The significant characters had already had resolutions to their emotional arcs in the show. All that was needed was for the audience to be reassured that Maya's extended family had been reunited, and the barbeque scene did that perfectly.
Great. Instead of everyone being a supersoldier now everyone is a mutant. Such subtle, creative storytelling.
I really liked it.
Matt Murdock is just universe hopping at rhis point until they can find him a place to stay. At least he has infinite barbecue to eat.
Did you know that Queen Marie antoinette apologized to the executioner for stepping on his foot??? The head came off anyway.I wish they were more focused on Echo's character more for this show. It's sad this felt more like a filler. It had a really good premise. I enjoyed this. Thanks doug and his person.
I felt that the wall smashing was the monster of his rage starting to smash through the wall to kill him.
The contacts could not have had a tracker in them because earlier, one of Kingpin's henchmen says that they lost her. If she had a tracker, they would not have.
Good luck at the University. Looking forward to potentially more content. Stay safe.
I really liked the show and it’s gotten me even more excited for DD series. I don’t necessarily have a problem with Echo being a mutant but I agree that everyone doesn’t need a flashy superpower. I assumed when Kingpin said he lost someone when talking to Chula, he was talking about Maya since she didn’t leave with him to go back to NY. Maya chose her real family over Kingpin. Also, I don’t think Vanessa’s dead cos I could’ve sworn she was recast not too long ago for the DD series.
It isn't necessarily the x gene and it isn't even flashy. Her hands slightly glow for super strength but the rest of the skills are just that: skills. This sets her up to be a lot more proficient and comfortable acquiring the Phoenix for a bit but it isn't Kahhori flight/lasers/etc
@@nailinthefashionDidn't think about it like that when it comes to the Phoenix. That's actually a good idea.
@@markstriker925 Phoenix Song was criminally underrated lol. If anything, spotlight makes me more excited for random lil adventures like these
I'm pretty sure she just has some kind of ancestral powers but If she's a mutant her power is literally "One for All" from My Hero Academia.
Good comparison 😂.
I really enjoyed the show. Can't wait to see more Echo and how they plan on expanding her powers like in the comics.
Couldn't help yourselves huh? Just had to pump out all the vids even after saying you were going to slow roll them.
Your point?
If the video uploads are outpacing your episode watching, just wait till you're caught up. The video will still be here.
You guys are reading too much into a simple statement. Please get hobbies or something.
It probably wouldve been too much but it would’ve been cool if they linked Maya’s ancestors to the Kahori character from What If season 2.