Benjamin Boyce interviewed a man's prison counselor called Jon Uhler a couple of years ago. Jon was very frank and matter of fact about the origins of male transgressive behaviour. His view was that men who self stimulated using pornography became unable to find stimulation after a while. These men sought more and more extreme and novel expressions of sexuality as they became bored and less able to satisfy themselves. Uhler explained how this addling of the sexual drive led men to eventually seek violation of other peoples personal psychological boundaries as a substitute for mutual psychological intimacy. Violation of other people became sexually gratifying as well as affirming of the psyche's presence since rhese people were eventually unable to respect others at all. I found this to be a very clear portrait of the connection between the male sex drive and psychopathy. The manner in which AGPs will aggressively transgress women's boundaries, why they demand access to places where they will be noticed, and where they will intrude upon women and children, is an expression of their psychopathic redirection of their sex drive. As men age they have less and less access to women sexually. l suspect the married with children AGP is so often one of Jon Uhler's "porn addled" psychopaths isolated and seeking to satisfy his needs through abusing others. This difficulty with intimacy could also explain the prevalence of autism in the dysphoria realm. Having said that ... where have all these autism cases suddenly arisen from?
I wonder, does the increase in autism correlate with the rise in AGP/trans? We know that, most boys who trans are on the spectrum and we know many girls. So us that the link between the teenagers and the middle-aged AGPs - autism? Probably undiagnosed autism. Are all AGPs created by watching sissy porn? Probably not. So, what triggers the AGP tendency? I'll have to stop watching these videos. 😂
For some people assessment and diagnosis, completed sensitively, is very important. I work with predominantly late diagnosed neuro diverse women and some men. Assessment and diagnosis and supportive therapy alongside can make sense of a lot of things for people e.g. their sensory sensitivity and how that impacts and has impacted their life or the difficulties they experienced particularly secondary education level, with friendship groups. Often when people don’t know that they are neurodiverse, they attribute their difficulties to a flaw in their personality. I agree, people are not just their diagnosis. They are primarily people- and neuro diverse people have always existed. I personally think that modern post industrial life pressures, including social isolation and mainstream ‘factory style’ education , can have negative consequences for all of us and particularly for sensitive types.
There is a difference between an individual feeling comforted and validation from a diagnosis, verses having a world view of putting others into hard categories. There are also plently of people who find a diagnosis limiting, and would prefer to feel they have traits, but aren't labeled.
@@BoomerTelly I would dare to say that labeling is not the real issue. I believe people who are afraid of labeling might be potentially afraid of being being criticised for their sexuality. But I also believe that for some of them the fear of being confronted by others who might call their experience a delusion, plays a big role in their fear of being labeled. I would call it a delusion as well when they have no critic of their situation. But on the other hand, in therapy labels play a secondary role to how the therapist would approach the client and their life story, as this "delusion" when explored, can reveal true connections to reality, and their inner coherence can be seen and acknowledge by a significant other.
There are young males who fit the ROGD profile who are speaking out about being autogynephilic. They are often dysphoric and have not been cured despite their parents' and their own best efforts. I believe one of the reasons that the parents, therapists and the person themself are so reluctant to acknowledge AGP is because viewing it as social in nature allows them to cling onto the idea that it can be made to go away. Nobody wants to face being stuck with it and having to find ways to manage and integrate it to the best of their ability (which sometimes won't work and still lead to transition).
Great episode! A LOT of the general public have no idea what AGP is. It needs to be discussed more. Maybe more young people will understand what's going on with them, and AGP isn't this awful thing. I'm a woman who cares less what someone wants to wear and act. What pisses me off is AGPs using female spaces and taking away women's rights. Like you said, not all AGP are loud, narcissistic people, but plenty are! Many women feel like it's a slap in the face and it's males taking away women's power.
Thank you for your level headed and thoughtful talk. It was really good to see you two spitballing, if you will, ideas and thoughts on AGP especially. I mean spitballing in a good way, just throwing out ideas, experiences and observations
Mention of young boys who suffered grooming, reminded me of a friend of this channel struggling with a nasty disease. I'd like to let Alasdair know we miss him and hope he's doing well.
A few thoughts… 1- I think there needs to be a distinction between AGP (which is a paraphilia by definition) and cross dressing. There can be erotic cross dressing and there can be cross dressing for non-erotic reasons. I do not think all the glam rockers of the 80s were secretly AGP. Though their hair and makeup and spandex were totally hot! There is a thrill in transgressing social norms. 2-I think the subject of power is very overlooked when talking about these issues. Many women cross dress to feel more powerful. Feeling more powerful, can lead to feeling more confident, which can lead to feeling sexy. It doesn’t necessarily mean the woman is wearing a man’s three piece suit as part of “fetish” even if the result is her feeling more sexy. By the same token-a man can steal women’s underwear (or mini skirt) to feel a sense of power over her. It’s a way of violating her boundaries. More about power than sex, though the two can feed each other. There are so many examples of men stealing girls underwear (and even wearing it) in movies and life, as a sort of conquest behavior. To say all of these boys are “a little bit AGP” is (I think) not helpful to the boys, or to the women who feel threatened by more extreme AGP activists. I dated a very “sweet shy boy” for a long time who had major messed up issues behind closed doors. It was all about power, even when he tried to make it about sex. It was just a desperate need to control. The more power we take away from men and boys, the more they will seek it through seemingly odd behaviors. (Not saying we give them all the power but this is not discussed enough.) 3-be careful of weaponized female empathy. I have so much empathy for boys and men who struggle. (Hence being in the aforementioned bad relationship.) It still does not make it okay for them to violate women’s boundaries, or manipulate or abuse women. Empathy, alone,cannot drive our response. And empathy alone will not assuage the suffering beneath the behavior.
"The more power we take away from men and boys, the more they will seek it through seemingly odd behaviors." JUST STOP DEMORALIZING AND DEMONIZING BOYS. It's very simple, and really honestly, not too much to ask.
To be honest, it's more about the person's psychological issues than society. The boys choose to take on certain messages and not others because they are predisposed to them due to their dislike of being male. There is a comment by @danaclaycomb below that demonstrates this.
Here I think you make a mistake confusing eroticism and sexual behavior. Eros is much more than performing sexual acts or pursuing sexual gratification. The ancient Greeks knew that and it’s still true today. The erotic is the sensual; transgression of taboos is very charged and erotic and complex (and ever-changing based on social roles and socioeconomic realities). Freud’s “Totem and Taboo” is instructive here, and I think he’s dismissed due to cultural drift and ignorance because of popular culture and not because people read his books (other brilliant ones of his here being Civilization And Its Discontents and Beyond the Pleasure Principle). Freud is obviously limited and imperfect, but this is why we read. We should not read for some pure science, especially not works like his, but to understand their historical influence, context, and nuggets of universalizable truths. This is why he’s read more in courses of German philosophy and religious criticism than in clinical curricula. The same is true for lots of books, lots of art, lots of media. I do think you’re very correct that power is important to analyze here.
@@anhedonic-antediluvian What do you mean by power? How many of these boys and young men have a FEMININE domination fetish (whereby they, as males, are sexually and physically dominated by females)?
Thanks for the fascinating discussion. On homosexual transexuals I would say from my experience that it is not necessary for a same sex attracted boy to be extremely feminine to be drawn to the idea of transitioning. I had a strong desire to change from male to female which lasted from the onset of puberty to my late teens, not because I couldn't pretend to be straight, nor because I didn't want to be a boy, but because I had an internalized homophobia which meant that the only way I thought I could feel good about my intense attraction to other boys was by somehow physically becoming a girl. Because of the time and place where I grew up such a transition was impossible. If I had been born 50 years later, I have no doubt I would have transitioned.
You two should really interview Ray Alex Williams. He’s a self-professed AGP detransitioner who has found ways to manage his AGP without continuing to medicalize or even present publicly as female.
You might find Ray Alex Williams interesting. He is an AGP male, who started to transition and then reversed course. He often talks about the ethical problems related to AGP transitions and about the work he has done to accept himself as an AGP male. www.youtube.com/@RayAlexWilliams
He was on hrt & lived as a trans woman for 9 years! That’s a little more than “started” to transition. Although I wonder how you can be doing it that long & not get your facial hair lasered off (let alone get SRS).
_""It’s crucial to recognize that while diagnostic frameworks offer insight, they can oversimplify the complexities of human identity and behavior. Traits associated with AGP, HSTS, ROGD, or even neurodiversity, like autism, may overlap and interact in ways that are not fully understood, underscoring the need for a more integrated understanding that avoids overly simplistic categorizations and fosters more nuanced and optimized support.""_ Some distinction instead of constant conflation! Because that conflation has been exploited to the extreme and basis for many subversions. Such distinctions just aren't what most anyone is willing to do, often because some abuse or excuse appeals to them, pandering to a overly simplistic worldview that works forms false pretense for afforded oppositional "sides." _(Other groups taking of "AGP" because it's an excuse that every problem is because of "fetish" and favoring Blanchard ignoring everything about him.)_ Beyond that, there is just basic deviations from a marketed reduced social meaning exacerbating people "pidgin-holing." A taste, aesthetic, interest, inconsequential behavior are forced as inherent and intrinsic "must-be" many times originating as mockery, but being subverted into serious justification for the "collective subjective" postmodern inherentcy ousting "objective individualist perception." (Nevermind that "neurodiversity," etc. in their own concects still also have that issue, including ill or un-defined.)
Good podcast. I admire your courage in trying to take on this topic. You are right the male sex drive is something you cannot relate to! I think “esoteric” is the most polite word I would use. The massive change in technology (eg. easy access to porn) will continue to roll society going forward.
FYI: Most furries are simply GEEKS. For them it is NOT a paraphilia. They're often the opposite of sexual and more like children even in their 20s, 30s and older. There may be exceptions but they would stick out like a sore thumb among the loving and super respectful furrie community. But I think you have a point about geeky hyperfocus. Also, most geeks are already different and therefore more tolerant of others differences so extra open to trans ideas.
Stella repeatedly made the point that it is better to think of a gender-distressed male as having autogynephilic traits rather than simply categorizing them as autogynephilic. I can see the appeal of thinking this way in a psychotherapeutic context in which you're trying to deeply understand one individual, but sometimes just seeing one autogynephilic trait IS enough to categorize a gender-dysphoric male as autogynephilic For example, in Blanchard's first typology study he looked at the proportion of MTFs who responded "Yes" to the question "Did you ever feel sexually aroused when putting on females' underwear or clothing?" and found that 73% of the nonhomosexual group (hetero, bi, + anallo) said Yes, but only 15% the homosexual group said Yes. This supported his contention that something having to do with "cross-gender fetishism" (he had not yet come up with the "autogynephilia" concept) was responsible for gender dysphoria in nonhomosexual males and that there were two distinct types of male gender dysphoria. If a therapist were dealing with a gender-dysphoric male and that client reported they'd been aroused by wearing women's clothing before (yes even just ONCE), I think it would be foolish to just consider this an "AGP trait" rather than an indicator that categorically, they type of gender dysphoria they're experiencing is autogynephilic. To categorize someone as AGP is not to say that the case is close and it's all figured out, but rather to know which category of dysphoria someone has. In males, the two types are distinct and do not overlap. They are fundamentally different conditions.
The only reason you are getting a front row seat and your movement being heralded is because it makes the transgender community look bad. It's like highlighting immigrants who commit crime in an effort to prevent more from becoming citizens or getting visas. Of course they know this stokes your ego and sexuality and you play it up for them. But you realize they want to make you captain of the asylum but you'll still be locked away. That where this is headed complete with medical bans for adults, fines, and forced imprisonment/civil committal. Cross dressing opposite to one's natal sex in public will be considered lude behavior like streaking and subject to not only ridicule but will soon fit the category obscenity and be classified of a sex offense with degrees increasing if a minor is present and if one enters the female washroom. That could easily be 3 felonies and life in prison with pay to stay and fines exceeding $250K immediately due. Genspect couldn't care less about your sexuality and all they want is you removed from society. Putting the freaks on display and proposing sexual aggressive theories about a marginalized population is perhaps the best way to curtail a group's rights and even exploit them economically with fines. This sort of like giving Jeffrey Dahmer a speaking position on how to carve up a body or interviewing John Wayne Casey on how homosexuals aren't always attracted to those of legal age. All this in an effort to curtail LGBT rights and it will be highly effective.
As far as I know Blanchard did not study teenage boys. Teenage boys are sexually aroused by everything. Have you ever seen the movie American Pie? The dude literally has sex with a pie. Does that mean he has pie-philia? Saying there are only two non-overlapping explanations for ANY kind of distress--gender, or otherwise--is completely reductive and shows an utter lack in understanding of the human condition. The old research does not account for a myriad of new factors in the current cohort. I just don't think it's nearly as simple as you want it to be.
@@MysticMom75 Others have, see Person and Oversey for instance and the "primary transsexual" who is in fact an analloerotic AGP. There were always teenage boys with those symptoms, just fewer of them than currently. A boy who was aroused by wearing female clothing once with no other symptoms is not going to end up in a therapist's office because of that. In gender-dysphoric boys, arousal at wearing women's clothes or cross-gender fantasy is an indicator of AGP being at the root of their dysphoria.
@@MysticMom75 Blanchard's 2-type MTF typology still holds up. Both the internet and transgender ideology make it more likely that AGPs will develop gender issues or decide to transition, but it's still fundamentally the same two predispositions behind male gender dysphoria. btw thanks for explaining what it's like to be a teenage boy, I would've had no way of knowing what that's like otherwise.
I don't think contemplating teenagers exploring their sexuality "Icky". Isn't that what humans generally do once their bodies mature sexually? Isn't that just nature taking its course? Being predated upon or manipulated by someone older with their own agenda, yes, that's quite wrong, but that's a separate issue.
Neurodiversity is a science currently in its infancy. Crossing disciplines between Social Psychology and Neurology, connections are now being made with numerous other previously perceived unrelated medical and social considerations and conditions such as ADHD and Autism, with such connections originating from the question of why only about 1 female for every 4 males are diagnosed with such conditions. What role does pre-natal testosterone play in such conditions?
[*] The dominance of this intersectional ideology is the reason why those who dare to consider how the impact of our institutions upon particular students deemed “privileged“, such as male students (disproportionately possessed of both “privilege”, but also somehow much “deficiency” and failure), have such a precarious time doing so. For anyone who understands the dangers of blaspheming against this dogma of identity, and wishes to avoid the most devastating consequences of doing so, there are two caveats commonly offered to justify their concern without explicitly violating the intersectional order: first, the inclusion of a non-privileged or “oppressed” identity qualifier behind which to hide the “privileged“ part of the identity (e.g. instead of referring to disadvantages faced by “boys” in school, one might instead ascribe such disadvantages to “black boys” in particular); and second, almost invariably, a platitude about the categorical imperative toward progress being something that “is not a zero-sum game“ to try to avoid being cast down as a “reactionary” against “progress”. The latter platitude is true, intersectionality is not a zero-sum game, and thus it seems as though any effort intended to improve outcomes in anyway should be allowed. In practice, however, this is shown over and over again not to be the case, and this is because of the kind of game Intersectionality actually is: not a zero-sum game, but rather worse than that, a negative-sum game. I would encourage those who have legitimate concerns and integrity on matters pertaining to education, individuals like Richard Reeves, to stop beating around the bush, and certainly, to stop bending the knee to this ideology which stands opposed to the interests of providing true education at every conceivable level. Come on Richard, it’s time to have some courage, it’s time to declare yourself fully liberated from the myriad feminist precepts that keep your efforts on behalf of boys in school dull, lame, and ultimately ineffectual. The following is an is an award winning poem written by a 17 year-old boy named Royce Mann: “Recently, I became a man. I didn't have a bar mitzvah. My dad didn't take me fishing or hunting. I didn't hit my first home run, grill my first hamburger or have my first wet dream. But recently I became a man. It happened the first time a woman avoided me on the sidewalk. I just had baseball practice and I was walking to meet my mom at a restaurant when the woman, 10 feet in front of me glanced back. I knew she was looking at me, but I had no idea what she was seeing. The separation between us was undeniable, but the distance wasn't enough. She changed direction, crossing the street like Moses did the red sea, trying Biblically to find freedom from me. Her footsteps taught me the danger of my own hands, taught me what it truly means to be a man. I may never know what it means to fear what she knew, but in that moment, I finally understood Peter pan. I wanted to stay a boy, not become a man, because a man is, I now knew, a mix between a father, brother, and attacker, and mostly the latter.” This speaks explicitly to the underlying psychology of what has been dubbed "Peter Pan Syndrome", or "failure to launch syndrome", which has been widely documented as a persistent phenomenon among Royce Mann's generation (generation Z) of boys. The tragedy of this, and the reality that so many boys have been taught to see themselves in the ways described by Royce Mann, should be recognized as an important issue on account of the clear injustice it represents. The fact that such a declaration of self-loathing was celebrated indicates the fact that Royce’s example is one considered by the dominate feminist narrative to be something for every boy to aspire to emulate, proving all that needs to be proven to demonstrate how insidious and pervasive feminist ideology actually is. There is no possible justification for Royce Mann to feel any of the things he ascribes to himself on account of what he is, and society should reject the narrative responsible for his internalization of such thoughts for his sake, and for the sake of every boy subject to the same cruel narrative; having said that, it's worth pointing out the narcissism intrinsic to Royce Mann's disturbing sense of self. The implication is that boys and men have a kind of transcendent power over the perceptions and experiences of women and girls, which consequently further entrenches the sense of powerlessness and vulnerability inculcated in girls how succumb to the feminist narrative. It is the kind of narcissism that, to the intersectional left, is considered a virtue. Royce Mann was applauded for this poem, partly for his tragic self-loathing and unjust self-condemnation, but also for his tacit usurpation of responsibility and agency from women and girls in order to “hold himself accountable” for everything that isn’t within his power to control (the perceptions of a random woman on the street, for example). This was presented to the world (being read on platforms like NPR, and Good Morning America) not with the concern that this kind of psychopathological complex would warrant in a sane and compassionate culture, no, instead it was presented and affirmed as something aspirational, “self aware” (despite the fact that it was never his self to begin with), and “empathetic”. Royce Mann is the ideal "feminist ally", the ideal product of what it means to “raise a feminist son”: his rejection and condemnation of himself is the only alternative to the "toxic-masculinity", itself a feminist construct and projection, offered to boys as they struggle to become men in this world. It is woefully ironic, ironic to such an extreme as to become straight forwardly and egregiously hypocritical, that the same people who lecture ad nauseam about the importance of “respect” and “empathy” should be the ones who actively encourage this kind of self-hatred in boys. In their perverse ideologically controlled minds, there is no room for doubt with regard to their own lack of respect, and definite lack of empathy, for boys, whose humanity their ideology actively denies while simultaneously encouraging a sense of profound powerlessness and fear in girls. We should all find it easy to explicitly reject this, and yet, both institutionally and culturally this narrative represents a kind of gospel. [*] Is it any wonder, considering this affront to the dignity and sovereignty of the individual, that the younger generation would be so keen to embrace the choice of proactively redefining their “gender” identity? Does it not make a disturbing amount of sense, given this quite dismal representation of both males and females (the former as pathological monsters “accountable” only for the imposed perceptions of others, and the latter as powerless prey objects), that there has been such an enthusiastic over-zealous eagerness to supplant the binary of sex with “gender identity” (which can mean anything at all, and therefore means nothing whatsoever)? Who would choose to identify as a man (according to the distorted image of “men” created by feminism) when one could easily identify as "non-binary", or even better still, as the passive woman described in Royce's poem, the very woman who taught him "what it truly means to be a man"? What girl would choose to remain powerless and without agency when she could instead opt out of the expected burdens and hurdles ascribed to the “female experience” under the ephemeral oppression of ‘the patriarchy’? Thank goodness for gender identity! Perhaps Royce Mann, and the women who think Royce Mann needs to be taught “the danger of his own hands”, can schedule a “swap meat” with a gender affirmation surgeon: this way Royce can “never become a man”, and maybe even come to “know what it means to fear what she knew”; and she who fears what her own perceptions cause her to fear in Royce can finally get a share of his “male privilege”, here’s to hoping that she’ll be able to finally feel fully human through the experience of learning to accept what she is according to strangers who couldn’t care less who she is: “in the danger of her own hands, that’s what it truly means to be a man, always more a something than a someone.”
I'm really glad Sasha has the humility to admit that she doesn't understand how it feels to be a boy going through puberty. I obviously experienced that, and when I read Carole Hooven's book, I really understood for the first time that girls really don't have any concept of what it's like. So the gentle teasing and flirting that teenage girls often do with teenage boys can be really confusing, because girls have already developed sexually and may or may not have sexual experience, while their male counterparts are trying to figure out why they're horny for many different girls, including some they only recently couldn't stand. That's one big thing that stood out to me: Before puberty, I didn't understand how it was possible to be sexually attracted to a girl without also liking her personality and/or thinking she was a nice or good person. But after puberty, you realize that you can be sexually attracted to lots of females, whether or not you want to have a relationship with them or would trust them with anything. It's really quite disconcerting. And I know Stella has sworn off Catholicism, but her sexual mores still seem very conservative. Why do you have such a judgmental reaction to people who want to be dominated sexually? For many men, who historically have been assumed to be the dominant ones socially and sexually, there's this intense desire to let others be in control. Just as many women don't want to be dominated in bed--and want to dominate themselves--think of the reverse for men.
"girls have already developed sexually and may or may not have sexual experience" You sound awfully confident about this. How do you define "developed sexually" and "experienced"? If you think a 13 year old girl could be "sexually experienced" that sounds a lot to me like a Lolita fantasy: I want her sexually, so therefore she IS sex. I can assure you that girls are just going through their lives being confused by boys, school, puberty, and impending adulthood, and if you think they are some elegant and effortlessly sexual creatures gliding through a stream of hotness that takes no work to manage, you couldn't be more wrong.
I know this doesn't belong here, but have you heard of "REVERSED Gender Dysphoria" before? I just watched the beginning of a video describing it and sounds like what they are describing is 'having second thoughts' about transitioning.
@@GordieGii I'd be interested to hear more. Are you saying they're creating a false diagnosis a bit like gender euphoria to explain away detransition or some other phenomenon? I've never heard of it so pardon my ignorance
Idk, I don’t think the effect of hating everything about masculinity, not just one’s masculine body, is brought up enough when you are talking about AGP boys. I’m in my 60s, and I remember even in the 70s coming to the conclusion that masculinity was awful and humiliating. My dad introducing me to the book The Natural Superiority of Women by Ashley Montagu when I was 12 just kind of confirmed what I had felt. I guess my attitude was that if you were into traditionally masculine roles of being competitive, wanting status, having a “rough and tumble” mindset, feeling that aggression was a useful trait, being male is great! But if none of that resonated with you, it was a raw deal. At least that is how I felt. And I fully admit I have been AGP all my life. But back when I was a kid and told my parents I wanted to live as a girl, and how I wanted to do it, I was dismissed and shamed. And that continued until I was an adult. I found that because I was treated as if these desires were shameful, shame took over my life. By the time I was 18 I was going to therapists but too terrified to even bring up my real problem, the gender dysphoria. Finally in my 20s , in a an act of desperation and despair, I castrated myself using a kitchen knife, and that spurred me on to transition. So I think going back to a culture in which males have to live in shame for not wanting to be males, that’s the way it always was forever, and you’re basically saying they deserve to be relegated to a life of shame because (as traditional society said) we have to uphold these standards of masculinity, when many of us can’t do it, refuse to do it, and eventually would prefer to not exist than live as men.
They want you living in shame or unaliving yourself so the rest are never introduced to the idea. They feel your innocence is lost the moment you transition and start making an imprint on society. They want this life for no one and lobby to move legal access to 25 or 30. They don't care that you were so traumatized that you started the surgery yourself. They'll say that's why you should never be released back into society. They'll come back and take the rest of our transitions once that grift wears down much like they do at the Heritage Foundation with their version of incremental extremism and talking half of an enchilada and then coming back for the rest of it later. Truly horrifying that they say this is such calm voices and legal action is rationalized and broken down into bite size steps. It's truly sad that we've come this far only to have our medical care taken away by a handful of detransitioners, regretters, and tomboys who think they would have transitioned if they lived today. This is any care regardless if all you need is one pill daily to maintain since you transitioned years and decades prior. And furthermore they'll say the book you read showed some form of "social contagion" even 50 years ago. They have no problem denying you are because they feel your views would have denied them a family especially Stella. As males, we pass through a point where we want off our development while females never really get the "plus factors" of testosterone that adds traits to a neutral frame.
First of all.... ouch!... kitchen knife and off they went?! 😢 .... that made me physically feel some kind of pain... That must have been a lot to deal with... You should have had someone to actually care for you... On a different note, I'm 51 min into the video but I haven't really hear them saying that AGP people should be ashamed of their sexuality. When or how did they say this? I am a male and I am not ashamed of being one. If I may ask you a question (feel free not to answer or engage with me) what kind of male have you dreaded to be since you discovered your AGP side? Lot's of love brother ❤ I understand that you feel female and I really hope that you won't take my referring to you as "brother" as being disrespectful. I only try to acknowledge the trauma your maleness had to go through. I believe this is a huge topic: What happenes to the other gender when someone transition? Would you care to have a conversation on this subject? Take care! 🙏❤
@@DorianPaige00 As always your unhinged hatred of women written as if possessed by poorly educated demons just screams excellent mental health. No one wants anyone to unalive themselves and luckily it's particularly rare in non-medicalised trans identifiers. There's nowhere in these videos that they trying to shame anyone either. You blokes just project your issues onto others. We also know that the idea of "removal" can be introduced into children's minds and is connected to abuse but if not introduced early then is much less likely.
Simply put, I felt, and still feel, that testosterone makes you ugly. Estrogen makes you beautiful. A female body with female genitals was simply the type of body I wanted. It always felt like bodily autonomy - why should I be forced to go through a puberty that made me ugly? Why should I be forced tor go bald, get a hairy caveman body like my dad & brothers? So that they could be proud of me for… what? As for personality traits, career choices, hobbies, I have no hang ups about what people should be like vis a vis their gender, do what you want, like what you want, wear whatever clothes you want, be you. I just knew what type of body I wanted and it was a female one and not a male one, and helplessly going through male puberty was devastating and unacceptable to me.
Therapeutic industry: the more diagnoses, and the longer we keep people in them, the more money we make. Human point of view: There's none of these labels (AGP, TRANS, exhibitionism, all the way down to Krafft-Ebbing's coprophilia) that you wouldn't be better off NOT having stuck to you. So yes, "traits" is a good linguistic dodge, to encourage people to think less in terms of . . . "IRON LABELS."
Yes, to an extent, since it suppresses the sex drive. It doesn't necessarily cure dysphoria just by suppressing the libido though, because HRT inevitably brings the physical changes that the AGP is after. For some that is enough, or they realize they cannot afford to go further, or they'll never pass, so you get manmoders who are on HRT but present as male and do not socially transition. Others feel the need to take it all the way to relieve dysphoria. And of course not all AGP is dysphoria and suffering, and since HRT does not relieve all sexual impulses, "euphoria" can still be a strong driver as well.
"Testosterone is poisoning me" is one of the top obsessions of dysphoric AGPs so suppressing testosterone brings about mental relief even before it results in physical changes.
Yes, to an extent, because HRT suppresses the libido.But this suppression doesn't necessarily relieve dysphoria by itself, since HRT also brings about the physical changes that the AGP is after. For some, this is enough, or they realize they cannot afford to go further or that they'll never pass, leading to manmoders who are on hormones but do not present as a woman or socially transition in any way. Many feel the need to take it all the way and live as women to relieve dysphoria. And of course, AGP is not all dysphoria and suffering, and since HRT does not suppress the libido completely, euphoria can remain a significant driver as well.
If by "cure" you mean a way to wreck your body and limit your life expectancy then sure. In the same way that you could "cure" heterosexuality or homosexuality by suppressing male sex drive. Which is to say, no, it doesn't work.
@@cormorant12before I got off the “testosterone train,” I referred to it as “plutonium,”because that is how poisonous I felt it was, to me and my body, at least.
@@philillyof the same birth sex. That might confuse people not familiar with his work phil. Your doing a great job of stating the science, and not opinions. Keep it up
@@honberg193 I was specifically addressing the OP who asked about aroace (the analloerotic category). I agree with your point when stating the typology in general though.
@@phililly Thanks, you know how Ray allways says he can't be held responsible for others mis interpreting his work. The inernet is full of such. I'm just sick of all the ideology on both sides of " the debate ". Keep up being a voice of the mainstream.
So a man wearing a woman's blouse and slacks or a woman wearing a man's suit is now considered by Genspect to be an explicit sex act? What recourse does any bystander have since this is now considered akin to "bump and grind" against strangers? I'm surprised you didn't at least have the decency to call it a low-level sexual offense out of respect for those who are raped, murdered, and thrown in a ditch.
@@lancewalker2595I'm pretty sure his defensive is a sign of something. Almost like he expected to be attacked for living out his paraphilia and forgot to watch the video. I like the fake attempt to involve women in a clearly male phenomenon too. Then he steals the role of victim from them too. Think of the crossdressers! Won't anybody think of the crossdressers! Unhinged as usual
@@robertmarshall2502 Genius a male phenomenon. So before you presume to denigrate the whole of male nature I suggest you take a step back. And YES, BOYS DO DESERVE UNDERSTANDING, without it what do you propose?
Look at their camera angles. I think what you are seeing is the difference between a desktop and a laptop. Stella's camera is looking up at her, you can see Stella's ceiling behind her. This makes Stella appear to be looking off and into the distance. Whereas Sasha's camera is more at her eye level and consequently she appears to be looking into the camera and being more "attentive". I heard people describe Stella as looking inebriated during some videos, I suspect this is for the same reason. When listening to other's she appears to be unengaged because her eyeline gives viewers the impression she is staring off into the distance.
Benjamin Boyce interviewed a man's prison counselor called Jon Uhler a couple of years ago.
Jon was very frank and matter of fact about the origins of male transgressive behaviour.
His view was that men who self stimulated using pornography became unable to find stimulation after a while.
These men sought more and more extreme and novel expressions of sexuality as they became bored and less able to satisfy themselves.
Uhler explained how this addling of the sexual drive led men to eventually seek violation of other peoples personal psychological boundaries as a substitute for mutual psychological intimacy.
Violation of other people became sexually gratifying as well as affirming of the psyche's presence since rhese people were eventually unable to respect others at all.
I found this to be a very clear portrait of the connection between the male sex drive and psychopathy.
The manner in which AGPs will aggressively transgress women's boundaries, why they demand access to places where they will be noticed, and where they will intrude upon women and children, is an expression of their psychopathic redirection of their sex drive.
As men age they have less and less access to women sexually. l suspect the married with children AGP is so often one of Jon Uhler's "porn addled" psychopaths isolated and seeking to satisfy his needs through abusing others.
This difficulty with intimacy could also explain the prevalence of autism in the dysphoria realm. Having said that ... where have all these autism cases suddenly arisen from?
Excellent comment.
I wonder, does the increase in autism correlate with the rise in AGP/trans? We know that, most boys who trans are on the spectrum and we know many girls. So us that the link between the teenagers and the middle-aged AGPs - autism? Probably undiagnosed autism. Are all AGPs created by watching sissy porn? Probably not. So, what triggers the AGP tendency? I'll have to stop watching these videos. 😂
For some people assessment and diagnosis, completed sensitively, is very important. I work with predominantly late diagnosed neuro diverse women and some men. Assessment and diagnosis and supportive therapy alongside can make sense of a lot of things for people e.g. their sensory sensitivity and how that impacts and has impacted their life or the difficulties they experienced particularly secondary education level, with friendship groups. Often when people don’t know that they are neurodiverse, they attribute their difficulties to a flaw in their personality. I agree, people are not just their diagnosis. They are primarily people- and neuro diverse people have always existed. I personally think that modern post industrial life pressures, including social isolation and mainstream ‘factory style’ education , can have negative consequences for all of us and particularly for sensitive types.
There is a difference between an individual feeling comforted and validation from a diagnosis, verses having a world view of putting others into hard categories. There are also plently of people who find a diagnosis limiting, and would prefer to feel they have traits, but aren't labeled.
@@BoomerTelly I would dare to say that labeling is not the real issue. I believe people who are afraid of labeling might be potentially afraid of being being criticised for their sexuality. But I also believe that for some of them the fear of being confronted by others who might call their experience a delusion, plays a big role in their fear of being labeled. I would call it a delusion as well when they have no critic of their situation. But on the other hand, in therapy labels play a secondary role to how the therapist would approach the client and their life story, as this "delusion" when explored, can reveal true connections to reality, and their inner coherence can be seen and acknowledge by a significant other.
There are young males who fit the ROGD profile who are speaking out about being autogynephilic. They are often dysphoric and have not been cured despite their parents' and their own best efforts. I believe one of the reasons that the parents, therapists and the person themself are so reluctant to acknowledge AGP is because viewing it as social in nature allows them to cling onto the idea that it can be made to go away. Nobody wants to face being stuck with it and having to find ways to manage and integrate it to the best of their ability (which sometimes won't work and still lead to transition).
Great episode! A LOT of the general public have no idea what AGP is. It needs to be discussed more. Maybe more young people will understand what's going on with them, and AGP isn't this awful thing.
I'm a woman who cares less what someone wants to wear and act. What pisses me off is AGPs using female spaces and taking away women's rights. Like you said, not all AGP are loud, narcissistic people, but plenty are! Many women feel like it's a slap in the face and it's males taking away women's power.
Thank you for your level headed and thoughtful talk. It was really good to see you two spitballing, if you will, ideas and thoughts on AGP especially.
I mean spitballing in a good way, just throwing out ideas, experiences and observations
Mention of young boys who suffered grooming, reminded me of a friend of this channel struggling with a nasty disease. I'd like to let Alasdair know we miss him and hope he's doing well.
Great to hear your expertise without a guest.
Thank you for speaking up about this! Our culture needs the truth
A few thoughts…
1- I think there needs to be a distinction between AGP (which is a paraphilia by definition) and cross dressing. There can be erotic cross dressing and there can be cross dressing for non-erotic reasons. I do not think all the glam rockers of the 80s were secretly AGP. Though their hair and makeup and spandex were totally hot! There is a thrill in transgressing social norms.
2-I think the subject of power is very overlooked when talking about these issues. Many women cross dress to feel more powerful. Feeling more powerful, can lead to feeling more confident, which can lead to feeling sexy. It doesn’t necessarily mean the woman is wearing a man’s three piece suit as part of “fetish” even if the result is her feeling more sexy. By the same token-a man can steal women’s underwear (or mini skirt) to feel a sense of power over her. It’s a way of violating her boundaries. More about power than sex, though the two can feed each other. There are so many examples of men stealing girls underwear (and even wearing it) in movies and life, as a sort of conquest behavior. To say all of these boys are “a little bit AGP” is (I think) not helpful to the boys, or to the women who feel threatened by more extreme AGP activists. I dated a very “sweet shy boy” for a long time who had major messed up issues behind closed doors. It was all about power, even when he tried to make it about sex. It was just a desperate need to control. The more power we take away from men and boys, the more they will seek it through seemingly odd behaviors. (Not saying we give them all the power but this is not discussed enough.)
3-be careful of weaponized female empathy. I have so much empathy for boys and men who struggle. (Hence being in the aforementioned bad relationship.) It still does not make it okay for them to violate women’s boundaries, or manipulate or abuse women. Empathy, alone,cannot drive our response. And empathy alone will not assuage the suffering beneath the behavior.
"The more power we take away from men and boys, the more they will seek it through seemingly odd behaviors."
JUST STOP DEMORALIZING AND DEMONIZING BOYS. It's very simple, and really honestly, not too much to ask.
To be honest, it's more about the person's psychological issues than society. The boys choose to take on certain messages and not others because they are predisposed to them due to their dislike of being male. There is a comment by @danaclaycomb below that demonstrates this.
Here I think you make a mistake confusing eroticism and sexual behavior. Eros is much more than performing sexual acts or pursuing sexual gratification. The ancient Greeks knew that and it’s still true today. The erotic is the sensual; transgression of taboos is very charged and erotic and complex (and ever-changing based on social roles and socioeconomic realities). Freud’s “Totem and Taboo” is instructive here, and I think he’s dismissed due to cultural drift and ignorance because of popular culture and not because people read his books (other brilliant ones of his here being Civilization And Its Discontents and Beyond the Pleasure Principle). Freud is obviously limited and imperfect, but this is why we read. We should not read for some pure science, especially not works like his, but to understand their historical influence, context, and nuggets of universalizable truths. This is why he’s read more in courses of German philosophy and religious criticism than in clinical curricula. The same is true for lots of books, lots of art, lots of media.
I do think you’re very correct that power is important to analyze here.
@@anhedonic-antediluvian What do you mean by power? How many of these boys and young men have a FEMININE domination fetish (whereby they, as males, are sexually and physically dominated by females)?
Thanks for the fascinating discussion. On homosexual transexuals I would say from my experience that it is not necessary for a same sex attracted boy to be extremely feminine to be drawn to the idea of transitioning. I had a strong desire to change from male to female which lasted from the onset of puberty to my late teens, not because I couldn't pretend to be straight, nor because I didn't want to be a boy, but because I had an internalized homophobia which meant that the only way I thought I could feel good about my intense attraction to other boys was by somehow physically becoming a girl. Because of the time and place where I grew up such a transition was impossible. If I had been born 50 years later, I have no doubt I would have transitioned.
So glad you guys are digging deep into this topic 🙌🏽
You two should really interview Ray Alex Williams. He’s a self-professed AGP detransitioner who has found ways to manage his AGP without continuing to medicalize or even present publicly as female.
I agree Ray has really opened my eyes to the nuances of agp.
@@sharee3135 Same here
Phil Illy as well. Has written an excellent book called "Autoheterosexual" on the subject, and is very forthcoming and honest.
Is he on here or twitter?
@@Eatsleeprun_rescuecats RUclips mostly
Been looking forward to this one for a while. Listening in pieces. Thank you!
Thanks for the nuance while being outspoken about the most problematic aspects. ❤
You might find Ray Alex Williams interesting. He is an AGP male, who started to transition and then reversed course. He often talks about the ethical problems related to AGP transitions and about the work he has done to accept himself as an AGP male. www.youtube.com/@RayAlexWilliams
He was on hrt & lived as a trans woman for 9 years! That’s a little more than “started” to transition. Although I wonder how you can be doing it that long & not get your facial hair lasered off (let alone get SRS).
@@danaclaycomb Wow. I didn't realize he lived as a woman so long.
_""It’s crucial to recognize that while diagnostic frameworks offer insight, they can oversimplify the complexities of human identity and behavior. Traits associated with AGP, HSTS, ROGD, or even neurodiversity, like autism, may overlap and interact in ways that are not fully understood, underscoring the need for a more integrated understanding that avoids overly simplistic categorizations and fosters more nuanced and optimized support.""_
Some distinction instead of constant conflation! Because that conflation has been exploited to the extreme and basis for many subversions. Such distinctions just aren't what most anyone is willing to do, often because some abuse or excuse appeals to them, pandering to a overly simplistic worldview that works forms false pretense for afforded oppositional "sides." _(Other groups taking of "AGP" because it's an excuse that every problem is because of "fetish" and favoring Blanchard ignoring everything about him.)_
Beyond that, there is just basic deviations from a marketed reduced social meaning exacerbating people "pidgin-holing." A taste, aesthetic, interest, inconsequential behavior are forced as inherent and intrinsic "must-be" many times originating as mockery, but being subverted into serious justification for the "collective subjective" postmodern inherentcy ousting "objective individualist perception." (Nevermind that "neurodiversity," etc. in their own concects still also have that issue, including ill or un-defined.)
Got my popcorn for this one!!
Good podcast. I admire your courage in trying to take on this topic. You are right the male sex drive is something you cannot relate to! I think “esoteric” is the most polite word I would use. The massive change in technology (eg. easy access to porn) will continue to roll society going forward.
FYI: Most furries are simply GEEKS. For them it is NOT a paraphilia. They're often the opposite of sexual and more like children even in their 20s, 30s and older. There may be exceptions but they would stick out like a sore thumb among the loving and super respectful furrie community.
But I think you have a point about geeky hyperfocus. Also, most geeks are already different and therefore more tolerant of others differences so extra open to trans ideas.
Stella repeatedly made the point that it is better to think of a gender-distressed male as having autogynephilic traits rather than simply categorizing them as autogynephilic. I can see the appeal of thinking this way in a psychotherapeutic context in which you're trying to deeply understand one individual, but sometimes just seeing one autogynephilic trait IS enough to categorize a gender-dysphoric male as autogynephilic
For example, in Blanchard's first typology study he looked at the proportion of MTFs who responded "Yes" to the question "Did you ever feel sexually aroused when putting on females' underwear or clothing?" and found that 73% of the nonhomosexual group (hetero, bi, + anallo) said Yes, but only 15% the homosexual group said Yes. This supported his contention that something having to do with "cross-gender fetishism" (he had not yet come up with the "autogynephilia" concept) was responsible for gender dysphoria in nonhomosexual males and that there were two distinct types of male gender dysphoria.
If a therapist were dealing with a gender-dysphoric male and that client reported they'd been aroused by wearing women's clothing before (yes even just ONCE), I think it would be foolish to just consider this an "AGP trait" rather than an indicator that categorically, they type of gender dysphoria they're experiencing is autogynephilic. To categorize someone as AGP is not to say that the case is close and it's all figured out, but rather to know which category of dysphoria someone has. In males, the two types are distinct and do not overlap. They are fundamentally different conditions.
The only reason you are getting a front row seat and your movement being heralded is because it makes the transgender community look bad. It's like highlighting immigrants who commit crime in an effort to prevent more from becoming citizens or getting visas. Of course they know this stokes your ego and sexuality and you play it up for them. But you realize they want to make you captain of the asylum but you'll still be locked away. That where this is headed complete with medical bans for adults, fines, and forced imprisonment/civil committal. Cross dressing opposite to one's natal sex in public will be considered lude behavior like streaking and subject to not only ridicule but will soon fit the category obscenity and be classified of a sex offense with degrees increasing if a minor is present and if one enters the female washroom. That could easily be 3 felonies and life in prison with pay to stay and fines exceeding $250K immediately due. Genspect couldn't care less about your sexuality and all they want is you removed from society. Putting the freaks on display and proposing sexual aggressive theories about a marginalized population is perhaps the best way to curtail a group's rights and even exploit them economically with fines. This sort of like giving Jeffrey Dahmer a speaking position on how to carve up a body or interviewing John Wayne Casey on how homosexuals aren't always attracted to those of legal age. All this in an effort to curtail LGBT rights and it will be highly effective.
As far as I know Blanchard did not study teenage boys. Teenage boys are sexually aroused by everything. Have you ever seen the movie American Pie? The dude literally has sex with a pie. Does that mean he has pie-philia? Saying there are only two non-overlapping explanations for ANY kind of distress--gender, or otherwise--is completely reductive and shows an utter lack in understanding of the human condition. The old research does not account for a myriad of new factors in the current cohort. I just don't think it's nearly as simple as you want it to be.
@@MysticMom75 Others have, see Person and Oversey for instance and the "primary transsexual" who is in fact an analloerotic AGP. There were always teenage boys with those symptoms, just fewer of them than currently. A boy who was aroused by wearing female clothing once with no other symptoms is not going to end up in a therapist's office because of that. In gender-dysphoric boys, arousal at wearing women's clothes or cross-gender fantasy is an indicator of AGP being at the root of their dysphoria.
@@MysticMom75 Blanchard's 2-type MTF typology still holds up. Both the internet and transgender ideology make it more likely that AGPs will develop gender issues or decide to transition, but it's still fundamentally the same two predispositions behind male gender dysphoria.
btw thanks for explaining what it's like to be a teenage boy, I would've had no way of knowing what that's like otherwise.
I don't think contemplating teenagers exploring their sexuality "Icky". Isn't that what humans generally do once their bodies mature sexually? Isn't that just nature taking its course? Being predated upon or manipulated by someone older with their own agenda, yes, that's quite wrong, but that's a separate issue.
Neurodiversity is a science currently in its infancy. Crossing disciplines between Social Psychology and Neurology, connections are now being made with numerous other previously perceived unrelated medical and social considerations and conditions such as ADHD and Autism, with such connections originating from the question of why only about 1 female for every 4 males are diagnosed with such conditions. What role does pre-natal testosterone play in such conditions?
33:00 What a week. Benjamin and Leslie talked about their private life on sunday. Stella and Sasha share new personal stories...
Thank you Sasha 25:15 ! ❤
I wish you could have brought a man in on the show to talk about this. Seems a little tone dead to have two women trying to explain a man's issue.
We have had, and continue to have, lots of episode with men talking about this from multiple angles.
7:00 or 8:00 I don't think autogynephiles necessarily hate their masculine attributes and organs; they don't necessarily feel dysphoria or distress.
[*] The dominance of this intersectional ideology is the reason why those who dare to consider how the impact of our institutions upon particular students deemed “privileged“, such as male students (disproportionately possessed of both “privilege”, but also somehow much “deficiency” and failure), have such a precarious time doing so. For anyone who understands the dangers of blaspheming against this dogma of identity, and wishes to avoid the most devastating consequences of doing so, there are two caveats commonly offered to justify their concern without explicitly violating the intersectional order: first, the inclusion of a non-privileged or “oppressed” identity qualifier behind which to hide the “privileged“ part of the identity (e.g. instead of referring to disadvantages faced by “boys” in school, one might instead ascribe such disadvantages to “black boys” in particular); and second, almost invariably, a platitude about the categorical imperative toward progress being something that “is not a zero-sum game“ to try to avoid being cast down as a “reactionary” against “progress”. The latter platitude is true, intersectionality is not a zero-sum game, and thus it seems as though any effort intended to improve outcomes in anyway should be allowed. In practice, however, this is shown over and over again not to be the case, and this is because of the kind of game Intersectionality actually is: not a zero-sum game, but rather worse than that, a negative-sum game. I would encourage those who have legitimate concerns and integrity on matters pertaining to education, individuals like Richard Reeves, to stop beating around the bush, and certainly, to stop bending the knee to this ideology which stands opposed to the interests of providing true education at every conceivable level. Come on Richard, it’s time to have some courage, it’s time to declare yourself fully liberated from the myriad feminist precepts that keep your efforts on behalf of boys in school dull, lame, and ultimately ineffectual.
The following is an is an award winning poem written by a 17 year-old boy named Royce Mann:
“Recently, I became a man. I didn't have a bar mitzvah. My dad didn't take me fishing or hunting. I didn't hit my first home run, grill my first hamburger or have my first wet dream. But recently I became a man. It happened the first time a woman avoided me on the sidewalk. I just had baseball practice and I was walking to meet my mom at a restaurant when the woman, 10 feet in front of me glanced back. I knew she was looking at me, but I had no idea what she was seeing. The separation between us was undeniable, but the distance wasn't enough. She changed direction, crossing the street like Moses did the red sea, trying Biblically to find freedom from me. Her footsteps taught me the danger of my own hands, taught me what it truly means to be a man. I may never know what it means to fear what she knew, but in that moment, I finally understood Peter pan. I wanted to stay a boy, not become a man, because a man is, I now knew, a mix between a father, brother, and attacker, and mostly the latter.”
This speaks explicitly to the underlying psychology of what has been dubbed "Peter Pan Syndrome", or "failure to launch syndrome", which has been widely documented as a persistent phenomenon among Royce Mann's generation (generation Z) of boys. The tragedy of this, and the reality that so many boys have been taught to see themselves in the ways described by Royce Mann, should be recognized as an important issue on account of the clear injustice it represents. The fact that such a declaration of self-loathing was celebrated indicates the fact that Royce’s example is one considered by the dominate feminist narrative to be something for every boy to aspire to emulate, proving all that needs to be proven to demonstrate how insidious and pervasive feminist ideology actually is. There is no possible justification for Royce Mann to feel any of the things he ascribes to himself on account of what he is, and society should reject the narrative responsible for his internalization of such thoughts for his sake, and for the sake of every boy subject to the same cruel narrative; having said that, it's worth pointing out the narcissism intrinsic to Royce Mann's disturbing sense of self. The implication is that boys and men have a kind of transcendent power over the perceptions and experiences of women and girls, which consequently further entrenches the sense of powerlessness and vulnerability inculcated in girls how succumb to the feminist narrative. It is the kind of narcissism that, to the intersectional left, is considered a virtue. Royce Mann was applauded for this poem, partly for his tragic self-loathing and unjust self-condemnation, but also for his tacit usurpation of responsibility and agency from women and girls in order to “hold himself accountable” for everything that isn’t within his power to control (the perceptions of a random woman on the street, for example). This was presented to the world (being read on platforms like NPR, and Good Morning America) not with the concern that this kind of psychopathological complex would warrant in a sane and compassionate culture, no, instead it was presented and affirmed as something aspirational, “self aware” (despite the fact that it was never his self to begin with), and “empathetic”. Royce Mann is the ideal "feminist ally", the ideal product of what it means to “raise a feminist son”: his rejection and condemnation of himself is the only alternative to the "toxic-masculinity", itself a feminist construct and projection, offered to boys as they struggle to become men in this world. It is woefully ironic, ironic to such an extreme as to become straight forwardly and egregiously hypocritical, that the same people who lecture ad nauseam about the importance of “respect” and “empathy” should be the ones who actively encourage this kind of self-hatred in boys. In their perverse ideologically controlled minds, there is no room for doubt with regard to their own lack of respect, and definite lack of empathy, for boys, whose humanity their ideology actively denies while simultaneously encouraging a sense of profound powerlessness and fear in girls. We should all find it easy to explicitly reject this, and yet, both institutionally and culturally this narrative represents a kind of gospel.
[*] Is it any wonder, considering this affront to the dignity and sovereignty of the individual, that the younger generation would be so keen to embrace the choice of proactively redefining their “gender” identity? Does it not make a disturbing amount of sense, given this quite dismal representation of both males and females (the former as pathological monsters “accountable” only for the imposed perceptions of others, and the latter as powerless prey objects), that there has been such an enthusiastic over-zealous eagerness to supplant the binary of sex with “gender identity” (which can mean anything at all, and therefore means nothing whatsoever)? Who would choose to identify as a man (according to the distorted image of “men” created by feminism) when one could easily identify as "non-binary", or even better still, as the passive woman described in Royce's poem, the very woman who taught him "what it truly means to be a man"? What girl would choose to remain powerless and without agency when she could instead opt out of the expected burdens and hurdles ascribed to the “female experience” under the ephemeral oppression of ‘the patriarchy’? Thank goodness for gender identity! Perhaps Royce Mann, and the women who think Royce Mann needs to be taught “the danger of his own hands”, can schedule a “swap meat” with a gender affirmation surgeon: this way Royce can “never become a man”, and maybe even come to “know what it means to fear what she knew”; and she who fears what her own perceptions cause her to fear in Royce can finally get a share of his “male privilege”, here’s to hoping that she’ll be able to finally feel fully human through the experience of learning to accept what she is according to strangers who couldn’t care less who she is: “in the danger of her own hands, that’s what it truly means to be a man, always more a something than a someone.”
Brilliant
Special Wednesday episode?!
I'm really glad Sasha has the humility to admit that she doesn't understand how it feels to be a boy going through puberty. I obviously experienced that, and when I read Carole Hooven's book, I really understood for the first time that girls really don't have any concept of what it's like. So the gentle teasing and flirting that teenage girls often do with teenage boys can be really confusing, because girls have already developed sexually and may or may not have sexual experience, while their male counterparts are trying to figure out why they're horny for many different girls, including some they only recently couldn't stand. That's one big thing that stood out to me: Before puberty, I didn't understand how it was possible to be sexually attracted to a girl without also liking her personality and/or thinking she was a nice or good person. But after puberty, you realize that you can be sexually attracted to lots of females, whether or not you want to have a relationship with them or would trust them with anything. It's really quite disconcerting.
And I know Stella has sworn off Catholicism, but her sexual mores still seem very conservative. Why do you have such a judgmental reaction to people who want to be dominated sexually? For many men, who historically have been assumed to be the dominant ones socially and sexually, there's this intense desire to let others be in control. Just as many women don't want to be dominated in bed--and want to dominate themselves--think of the reverse for men.
"girls have already developed sexually and may or may not have sexual experience" You sound awfully confident about this. How do you define "developed sexually" and "experienced"? If you think a 13 year old girl could be "sexually experienced" that sounds a lot to me like a Lolita fantasy: I want her sexually, so therefore she IS sex. I can assure you that girls are just going through their lives being confused by boys, school, puberty, and impending adulthood, and if you think they are some elegant and effortlessly sexual creatures gliding through a stream of hotness that takes no work to manage, you couldn't be more wrong.
I know this doesn't belong here, but have you heard of "REVERSED Gender Dysphoria" before? I just watched the beginning of a video describing it and sounds like what they are describing is 'having second thoughts' about transitioning.
@@GordieGii I'd be interested to hear more. Are you saying they're creating a false diagnosis a bit like gender euphoria to explain away detransition or some other phenomenon?
I've never heard of it so pardon my ignorance
Idk, I don’t think the effect of hating everything about masculinity, not just one’s masculine body, is brought up enough when you are talking about AGP boys. I’m in my 60s, and I remember even in the 70s coming to the conclusion that masculinity was awful and humiliating. My dad introducing me to the book The Natural Superiority of Women by Ashley Montagu when I was 12 just kind of confirmed what I had felt. I guess my attitude was that if you were into traditionally masculine roles of being competitive, wanting status, having a “rough and tumble” mindset, feeling that aggression was a useful trait, being male is great! But if none of that resonated with you, it was a raw deal. At least that is how I felt. And I fully admit I have been AGP all my life. But back when I was a kid and told my parents I wanted to live as a girl, and how I wanted to do it, I was dismissed and shamed. And that continued until I was an adult. I found that because I was treated as if these desires were shameful, shame took over my life. By the time I was 18 I was going to therapists but too terrified to even bring up my real problem, the gender dysphoria. Finally in my 20s , in a an act of desperation and despair, I castrated myself using a kitchen knife, and that spurred me on to transition. So I think going back to a culture in which males have to live in shame for not wanting to be males, that’s the way it always was forever, and you’re basically saying they deserve to be relegated to a life of shame because (as traditional society said) we have to uphold these standards of masculinity, when many of us can’t do it, refuse to do it, and eventually would prefer to not exist than live as men.
They want you living in shame or unaliving yourself so the rest are never introduced to the idea. They feel your innocence is lost the moment you transition and start making an imprint on society. They want this life for no one and lobby to move legal access to 25 or 30. They don't care that you were so traumatized that you started the surgery yourself. They'll say that's why you should never be released back into society. They'll come back and take the rest of our transitions once that grift wears down much like they do at the Heritage Foundation with their version of incremental extremism and talking half of an enchilada and then coming back for the rest of it later. Truly horrifying that they say this is such calm voices and legal action is rationalized and broken down into bite size steps. It's truly sad that we've come this far only to have our medical care taken away by a handful of detransitioners, regretters, and tomboys who think they would have transitioned if they lived today. This is any care regardless if all you need is one pill daily to maintain since you transitioned years and decades prior. And furthermore they'll say the book you read showed some form of "social contagion" even 50 years ago. They have no problem denying you are because they feel your views would have denied them a family especially Stella. As males, we pass through a point where we want off our development while females never really get the "plus factors" of testosterone that adds traits to a neutral frame.
First of all.... ouch!... kitchen knife and off they went?! 😢 .... that made me physically feel some kind of pain... That must have been a lot to deal with... You should have had someone to actually care for you...
On a different note, I'm 51 min into the video but I haven't really hear them saying that AGP people should be ashamed of their sexuality. When or how did they say this?
I am a male and I am not ashamed of being one.
If I may ask you a question (feel free not to answer or engage with me) what kind of male have you dreaded to be since you discovered your AGP side? Lot's of love brother ❤ I understand that you feel female and I really hope that you won't take my referring to you as "brother" as being disrespectful. I only try to acknowledge the trauma your maleness had to go through. I believe this is a huge topic: What happenes to the other gender when someone transition? Would you care to have a conversation on this subject? Take care! 🙏❤
You can't be ashamed of what you are NOT. You have never been female, you have only ever been male. It is in your MALENESS that you feel shame.
@@DorianPaige00 As always your unhinged hatred of women written as if possessed by poorly educated demons just screams excellent mental health.
No one wants anyone to unalive themselves and luckily it's particularly rare in non-medicalised trans identifiers.
There's nowhere in these videos that they trying to shame anyone either. You blokes just project your issues onto others.
We also know that the idea of "removal" can be introduced into children's minds and is connected to abuse but if not introduced early then is much less likely.
Simply put, I felt, and still feel, that testosterone makes you ugly. Estrogen makes you beautiful. A female body with female genitals was simply the type of body I wanted. It always felt like bodily autonomy - why should I be forced to go through a puberty that made me ugly? Why should I be forced tor go bald, get a hairy caveman body like my dad & brothers? So that they could be proud of me for… what? As for personality traits, career choices, hobbies, I have no hang ups about what people should be like vis a vis their gender, do what you want, like what you want, wear whatever clothes you want, be you. I just knew what type of body I wanted and it was a female one and not a male one, and helplessly going through male puberty was devastating and unacceptable to me.
Stella compulsively reads accounts of compulsive behavior....😂
Therapeutic industry: the more diagnoses, and the longer we keep people in them, the more money we make.
Human point of view: There's none of these labels (AGP, TRANS, exhibitionism, all the way down to Krafft-Ebbing's coprophilia) that you wouldn't be better off NOT having stuck to you.
So yes, "traits" is a good linguistic dodge, to encourage people to think less in terms of . . . "IRON LABELS."
If testosterone causes agp and one suffers under it, can the cure be testo blockers and estrogen?
Yes, to an extent, since it suppresses the sex drive. It doesn't necessarily cure dysphoria just by suppressing the libido though, because HRT inevitably brings the physical changes that the AGP is after. For some that is enough, or they realize they cannot afford to go further, or they'll never pass, so you get manmoders who are on HRT but present as male and do not socially transition. Others feel the need to take it all the way to relieve dysphoria. And of course not all AGP is dysphoria and suffering, and since HRT does not relieve all sexual impulses, "euphoria" can still be a strong driver as well.
"Testosterone is poisoning me" is one of the top obsessions of dysphoric AGPs so suppressing testosterone brings about mental relief even before it results in physical changes.
Yes, to an extent, because HRT suppresses the libido.But this suppression doesn't necessarily relieve dysphoria by itself, since HRT also brings about the physical changes that the AGP is after. For some, this is enough, or they realize they cannot afford to go further or that they'll never pass, leading to manmoders who are on hormones but do not present as a woman or socially transition in any way. Many feel the need to take it all the way and live as women to relieve dysphoria. And of course, AGP is not all dysphoria and suffering, and since HRT does not suppress the libido completely, euphoria can remain a significant driver as well.
If by "cure" you mean a way to wreck your body and limit your life expectancy then sure.
In the same way that you could "cure" heterosexuality or homosexuality by suppressing male sex drive. Which is to say, no, it doesn't work.
@@cormorant12before I got off the “testosterone train,” I referred to it as “plutonium,”because that is how poisonous I felt it was, to me and my body, at least.
I've never had paraphilia, but sometimes I get a touch of canivaphilia.
❤🇬🇧❌❌
I haven’t yet heard the entirety of the video, but how does Blanchard typology explain the existence of aroace trans people?
You're so ignorant because literally the rest of the video is about how those definitions are limiting. You just couldn't wait to say your opinion.
Gender dysphoric males who are not sexually attracted to others are categorized as autogynephilic under Blanchard's MTF typology.
@@philillyof the same birth sex. That might confuse people not familiar with his work phil. Your doing a great job of stating the science, and not opinions. Keep it up
@@honberg193 I was specifically addressing the OP who asked about aroace (the analloerotic category). I agree with your point when stating the typology in general though.
@@phililly Thanks, you know how Ray allways says he can't be held responsible for others mis interpreting his work. The inernet is full of such. I'm just sick of all the ideology on both sides of " the debate ". Keep up being a voice of the mainstream.
So a man wearing a woman's blouse and slacks or a woman wearing a man's suit is now considered by Genspect to be an explicit sex act? What recourse does any bystander have since this is now considered akin to "bump and grind" against strangers? I'm surprised you didn't at least have the decency to call it a low-level sexual offense out of respect for those who are raped, murdered, and thrown in a ditch.
That's quite a hysterical take considering the topic at hand. Treating boys and young men like human beings is just too much for you?
@@lancewalker2595I'm pretty sure his defensive is a sign of something. Almost like he expected to be attacked for living out his paraphilia and forgot to watch the video. I like the fake attempt to involve women in a clearly male phenomenon too. Then he steals the role of victim from them too.
Think of the crossdressers! Won't anybody think of the crossdressers!
Unhinged as usual
@@robertmarshall2502 Genius a male phenomenon. So before you presume to denigrate the whole of male nature I suggest you take a step back. And YES, BOYS DO DESERVE UNDERSTANDING, without it what do you propose?
I wonder if Stella is aware how bored and disinterested she looks whenever Sasha is expressing her views.
Look at their camera angles. I think what you are seeing is the difference between a desktop and a laptop.
Stella's camera is looking up at her, you can see Stella's ceiling behind her.
This makes Stella appear to be looking off and into the distance. Whereas Sasha's camera is more at her eye level and consequently she appears to be looking into the camera and being more "attentive".
I heard people describe Stella as looking inebriated during some videos, I suspect this is for the same reason.
When listening to other's she appears to be unengaged because her eyeline gives viewers the impression she is staring off into the distance.
It's the camera angle. Notice how you can see Stella's ceiling. It makes her appear like she's gazing off into the distance.