Intercommunity Judgment (Gays vs. Gays) - Where Does It Come From?
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
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You can watch the video I referenced here:
ruclips.net/video/SF7KCsvcw2g/видео.html
I appreciate you linking the referenced video!
I don’t like loud, obnoxious people, regardless of their sexual identities.
That's a good point too. I wasn't able to separate my judgment from his sexuality, but maybe it's actually unrelated.
When you are young, which I no longer am, you are concerned with these sorts of issues, which really are not issues but a reflection of one's own insecurities, which with time and growth will eventually dissipate and be replaced by issues that truly matter and gear you towards behaviour which improves both your existence and lives of those you come into contact with.
I think you're spot on---it's projection. You are projecting your feelings onto that person, and it's a response to something you were taught at a very young age and still haven't overcome. You (like all of us) were criticized as a young boy for how you pronounce a word, or held your school books, or raised the tone of your voice in excitement. You were shamed for it, and you remember the shame. You learned how to mold your behavior to fit what was supposedly expected of you. When we encounter other men who haven't conformed to the rules, even though intellectually we know those rules are bullshit, there's still something off-putting about it. We shame those who have embraced that part of themselves because we cannot.
Well said! It's almost like a subconscious frustration that the other person refuses to conform (or is unable to) - even if we haven't perfectly done so either.
Queens can be vicious at times.
At an early age, I was taught the difference between masculine and feminine roles so that has made me somewhat self-conscious.
100%, same here. It's instilled in you from such a young age.
I think that "instinct to judge" might comes from interacting with someone who is meant to share some sort of identity with you, but is exhibiting something that you really don't identify with. I'm 100% sure I didn't word that the best way, but that's the best I can do right now haha.
Maybe it also has something to do with a person in a community matching a (perceived negative) stereotype? Like, whenever I see an American being a Karen in another country, I do find myself having the "bruh, really?" reaction, same when a black person is caught stealing.
Yeah, I think it's all of the above! I also think it's a shared shame thing - like "I shouldn't be doing that, so neither should you" (within the same community)
I agree with this and you a worded it well enough.
Love this conversation. I often think about stuff like this. Well articulated! I hope to reconcile this notion with myself some day.
Thanks for watching!
I grew up in a time where being effeminate meant getting beat up, shamed, picked on, and bullied. Even my parents forced me into sports when I was around six because they knew I didn't enjoy what the other boys did and they wanted me to fit in more. As a teen, it was just habit and instinct that made me more masculine than I probably would have been. I didn't want any negative attention so I just made myself into someone that easily passed. As an adult, being as masculine as I could be just became ingrained into who I was as a person. I hate to admit it but I was embarrassed to be seen with more feminine gays. I picked partners who were as masculine as I was. To this day I don't know if I would have allowed my feminine side to show more if I wasn't so afraid to.
Great point - I too wonder if I would be more effeminate if it was socially accepted or encouraged.
So true. We have been judged by a straight world, so we think it's normal to judge. So, we judge our community. Hurt people, hurt people.
Maybe it comes from some internalised self hatred and they see too much of themselves in or are projecting on other gays and are punishing by proxy?... Some gay's really look down on more feminine presenting gay's too and I think it's because deep down they have repressed their own femininity because of some shame around it growing up maybe. The more try hard masculine one's imo tend to be more likely to be misogynistic and woman hating too and they really idealise straight men and will sometimes denigrate women to the more misogynistic red/black pill straight guys to fit in. Kind of like saying don't look over here at me being gay, I'm just a masculine man like you and hate women too... because the types of guys they are trying to fit in with can be homophobic too.
I do think gays, particularly the more feminine overt pretentions bitchy ones can get away with being a lot more bitchy that women without coming across very negatively and they can get away with a lot more than straight men too in a way without coming across badly. I'm not saying they are necessarily worse that women and straight men, they can just get away with more, which means they can go a lot further unchecked.
It's also important to consider a historical context. Gays, in general, 30 years ago, were not as broadly effeminized as they are today - in my observation. Sure, you had the girl, mary, and sister . . . but the way gays have been stereotyped in popular culture over the past 10 years - especially TV and film media - i.e. Jack from Will & Grace - has normalized traits like effeminacy, over-exaggerated gestures, and attention seeking vocalization . . . there was also an adaptation of the black female stereotype. People, especially other gays - may tend to gravitate toward those personas because they are perceived as friendly, familiar, funny, popular, and well-received, and many gays will consciously or subconsciously assume this character personification in order to elicit the same response from others. It's an interesting psychological observation.
That's always the question....nature or nurture? Thanks for watching!
Whenever you are in a group situation, around gay men or not, you may notice that one or two voices stand out. They are louder, they are more prominent, and they dominate the space or room. I have seen this at AA meetings in which the same 2 or 3 people constantly want to "share", and also in support groups and a book club, all of them dominated by one or two people. The voice is merely the signal ; the real issue is the NEED FOR ATTENTION and, more negatively, the need to feel superior to the others in the group. I experienced this first hand in a support group in which. before I even first entered the room as a new participant, I noticed a single voice that was louder and more prominent. than the others. As I kept attending the group I noticed this man dominated the group, whispering to the man next to him as I "shared" and otherwise being rude to me in little ways. it ended with this guy being so triggered by me he raised his voice at me in a performance worthy of Joan Crawford. Rather than address it in the moment I chose to walk out of the group (so as not to deprive others of the opportunity to speak). That was when it dawned on me that Mary Rude-Azz had been threatened by me from the start. Pathetically, the group facilitator failed to address this guy's behavior and I couldn't understand why until it dawned on me that they were both of a certain cultural heritage. Mary felt she was above the financially poorer members of the group and that she did not have the more severe health and personal problems others in the group had. The group was her "stage" and she was Liza Minnelli on the smallest of scales! I had even fewer serious issues than Mary, and thus she was triggered by my mere presence in the group. The man you describe at the house party was either an attention ho (like Mary) or else had too much Gray Goose or pot before attending.
⭐⭐⭐⭐ BTW, Great topic we come in all colors and from all facts of life. Trust me, I work in a large medical hospital and we have gay staff from doctors, nurses, assistants, etc...and they all have different mannerisms. Having said that, for some reason most of the gay staff don't believe that I'm gay, simply because I'm not effeminate. Moreover, I don't judge others, like I stated at the beginning we come in all colors.
I’m a slightly effeminate GAYsian, and sometimes I have that judgment too and I’m aware of it too, so by being subconscious about it I think we can be and become better to not judge people ❤
Great video and topic Mister! Oh my god totally, we all do it(every human male/female)! I think a big part of it is the perspective of our frail EGO in fear of the way 'the world" views any minority. And sadly in the gay community appearing masculine even in current times is a big thing. By the way in relation to your video of dating in Miami on how you encounter men who were on the download, for some strange reason there is this fantasy if we want to call it such of nailing a straight guy and so many gay men play with this by pretending to be hetero. At the same time many of us secretly envy those who dare to be themselves no matter the situation.
Very good observation✌🏾
Thanks for watching, Lawrence!
Gay voice has always been a turn off for me. I relate more to the "Will Truman" character than flamboyant "Jack". It really rubs me the wrong when another guy tries to refer to me as "girl or sister" in a public setting. # 1 I'm not a girl nor act feminine in anyway. Even though I don't hang with twinks anymore (now that I'm older) their mannerisms and voice bother me (reminds me of silly school girls). I don't worry or take any offense that I am judgmental just like they don't think anything is wrong with "acting" the way they do. Gays like straights all have stereotypes and as you've said in your past video's dating apps are the worst with categorizing people into (top/bottom's, personality types- masc/fem and preferences (bears/cubs/twinks/jocks) Their certainly is a lot judgment in the gay community sometimes more so than the straight community.
in the room of 12 gay guys, how many times did you hear the C word?
Which one? lol
@@KevenTalks There is nothing quite like the conversation at a gay dinner party....
Keven, what are your thoughts on Kamala Harris. Me? I haven't seen this much excitement in a election run up since the year tha JFK ran for the office of president back in the late '50's and early '60's.
My thoughts: Kamala Harris 2024!!!! 🥳
Trump is the man of sin the bible promises to banish.
Trump supporters all took the mark of the beast and won't be here much longer unless they repent.
I am Elijah of Malachi 4, the forerunner to the return of Jesus.
Matthew 19 12 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ says God prefers same-sex marriage and confirms transgender people are born that way.
JESUS was TRANSGENDER 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️, a female man returning as a female woman in a lesbian relationship with a male woman.
Fake ministers all know Malachi 3 8 is telling THEM to return the money.
Fake ministers all over the world know the natural disasters, shootings, wars, diseases, famines, etc will get worse until THEY repent by returning the money and tell everyone they have known God prefers same-sex marriage and confirms transgender people are born that way.
World peace is coming for those that remain and God's real people will soon transfigure and never pass on again.
All government officials are evil but only Trump is the literal man of sin. I'm voting for Kamala.
You do understand that Trump wants to put people into so-called re-education camps, otherwise known as concentration camps?
Republicans want to have a holocaust and this is not a joke. Project 2025 is real.
You don't have gay voice, Keven. I like your voice a lot. Some guys are over the top and it's a bit of a turn off tbh.
I have learned as a caribbean- middleeastern mix that l prefer to stay with my own ethnic group. Nothing against white people, but l am not particularly attracted to them. I like my men with a lot more seasoning! I can honestly say that in my community, we don't suffer from that. Everyone is equal. I just am myself. I haven't found anyone important to me to change.
"I like my men with a lot more seasoning!"
I love this phrase lol
Matthew 19 12 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ says God prefers same-sex marriage and confirms transgender people are born that way.
Male or female is determined by gender located in the soul not sex characteristics.
JESUS was TRANSGENDER 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️, a female man returning as a female woman in a lesbian relationship with a male woman.
In one sense, feminine boys are just like women that are female in gender. Because they are still female. But it's also hard to talk about these things without getting stereotypical.