329: The .40-82 Winchester?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2023
- Welcome to the Ron Spomer Outdoors Podcast! Hello, sports fans! If you are looking for free public land on which to hunt and not be crowded, I think we have a listener with a good suggestion for finding just that. And we're also going to figure out what is the best scope for a 30-06 rifle for shooting out to about 350 yards. And can you handload for the .40-82 Winchester? Find out this and more on this episode of Ron Spomer Outdoors.
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: Red 11 Media - www.red11media.com/
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
William that hasn't hunted. Remember hunting is not always getting your game. I have had some of the most fun hunting trips and never even seen the game I was after. It just getting out there, doing your best. But you have to get out there!
Ron I agree. I didnt get any deer last year here in maine. But it was so beautiful in the morning sun..snow on the ground. Just rejuvenates the soul.
Some of my happiest memories come from hunting not just being in the woods but the comradery in spending time with good people. I love being in the woods. spending time around the camp fire or just bullshiting with the guys. I'm very lucky to have had that opportunity even though my dad didn't hunt
I want to be 35 years younger so I can be Ron Spoomer when I grow up. He hunts, writes, blogs and lives the life I’ve always wished I could do, but there is only one Ron Spoomer so I’ll cherish his work like I did that of Gene Hill.
My favorite BP vintage cartridge is the 40-82 and Mike Venturing book "Shooting lever guns of the Old West" lit a fire under me, it is his first and favorite round. After loading and shooting the 45LC, 44 Colt and 45-70 I came to love the 40 cal. Black power is fun, shot it for yrs but thanks to Mike I switched to 5744 smokeless and have used it decades for 38 Colt on up thru 50-140 and everything in-between.
Love your channel and the great effort you two put in.
I love COTW. Fabulous reference book for us ballistic nerds. Mine is 2 or 3 editions ago (McPherson was still editing then). Once about 9 yrs ago, i was watching Crossfire Trail, and the 45-60 Centennial was featured. I knew what it was but could not recall the ballistics. So i went down to the family room (tri level house back then), retrieved it, and took it to the tv with me. I actually had it on the coffee table for weeks, because i often referred to it. The history is just as interesting as the ballistics. I always said, had i been a TX Ranger back then, ny rifle would have been an 1895 in 40-82. After it was available in 30-40 Krag, i would have gotten that.
These discussions are fun. I recall that Mike Venturino's go to powder for old cartridges with cast bullets was 5744. Fortunately, his books are still available from FMG Publications. RIP Duke, we miss you. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge abd experience with us over the years (decades).
My brother had a 40-82. It was a blast to shoot!
For .40-82 check out Mike "Duke" Venturino, he did an article in Guns Magazine on handloading for the 1886 Winchester in .40-82.
40/82 brass is easily made from 45/90 brass
I had CPA rifles build me a modern 40/82 for Black Powder Silhouette competition. I've only shot about 35-40 rounds out of it if anyone is interested in purchasing it. Additionally if he wants to shoot blackpowder he just has to remember to load the case full enough of the black powder that there is no air space between base of bullet and the powder charge. If he will search for BPCR loads in his 40/82 he will find several. If he is interested in smokeless there are formulas for using 5744 and TrailBoss. Hope this helps.
I was.just.goiing to say this, SPG has black powder load data for it in their manual. I bet if he called them, he could get more information for a safe smokeless load. Also Trailboss powder is no longer manufactured at this time.
Modern steel? Bore size? Price? Email?
.40-82 Winchester:
Cartridges of the World, 16th Edition, by Frank C. Barnes, edited by W. Todd Woodard
Page 205:
"Introduced in 1885 for the Winchester single shot and also available for the Model 1886 Lever action...made the transition into the smokeless powder Era. It was loaded until 1935." 2loadings for a 260 gr bullet are given.
The 40-82 is covered in Winchester lever legacy reloading manual
Will the 7-30 Waters be covered in your 7mm book? Would love to see a video featuring the 7-30 and your thoughts on Ken Waters. Thanks!
I load .40/82 r for two original 1886 rifles that I own, in my opinion the best cartridge that that rifle was chambered in in the old West. Was a little faster and flatter shooting using black powder. I load with smokeless with the now obsolete SR 4759 smokeless powder, Jamison .40/82 brass, also now obsolete as they are out of business and a Steve Garb ( still in business ) custom mold. 2 inch groups at 100 yards with both rifles, it’s a tack driving cartridge if loaded correctly.
James, try Buffalo Arms for info on your 40-82
Ron: As noted above Buffalo Arms is a good source and Midway may be, depending upon whether they have them in stock... but Quality Cartridge has an inventory of calibers that they make that reads like an encyclopedia!
Hey ron your card mentioned 44 :40 . Then theres a 38:40 but its a 40 caliber. Just opposite. There also was a match cartridge 19th century the
40: 62.was popular and flat 4 the time.🦬🐎
LOVE YOUR SHOW, CLASS ACT!!!
Thank you sir.
The Banish 30 can be shortened from 9 inches to 7 inches. The Banish Backcountry is around $100 higher. I suppose it’s just what you want to pay for. I have 2 of the Banish 30 and absolutely love them. The Banish 30 can be taken apart and cleaned. The Backcountry cannot.
Hope this helps someone
Best bet for 40-82 is trail boss. You can load any case except 50 bmg, to just below the base of the seated bullit. No compressed loads.
40-82 you ask? Take a look at some of Mike Venturino's books he's written on old leverguns and those type of rifle and the SPG loading book. My survival setup is for the areas around Rons backyard. Ruger MKIV 22lr and the Ruger 308 scout rifle. That combo is easy peasy.
Hello from the treasure valley! I’ve got a customer that purchased a case of Norma for his 300WSM 180gr and complained that it wasn’t shooting well, 3” at 100yrd , I pulled down 40 rounds and weighed ea load, result were 1.1 grains of deviation.. that’s huge! Loaded him up with H4350 and a 165gr Nosler and now he’s shooting 1/4” groups, this is not my first encounter Norma ammo, love there brass though
The best long term survival rifle is a black powder refile. As you can make everything that is needed to keep it shooting
Not.many people are willing to go that route, that's why they say the 22lr. In a survival situation, your mostly putting every effort into gathering food, water and either making or improving your shelter. Gathering the items.needed to make black powder an then making it may prove harder then you think, when you can't just either order or find the ingredients as we can now. Depending on where you live of course.
Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West by M. Venturing has some smokeless and black powder data for the 40-82
Thank you
Howdy from SW Wyoming! I have been following you since your early writing days. I started reading you when you wrote for the South Dakota GF&P magazine. Thanks for the good work and keep it up. From another old S.D. boy.. Regards. GB
That is the best and easiest explanation of the difference and use of .223 and 5.56
Hey Ron, Good writing sounds easily conversational. It keeps the reader engaged. It’s what I always enjoyed about your writing. Craig Boddington has a readable style!
For the 40-82, I recently worked up a load for a 1867 Remington in 50 rem navy. I used data for a 45-70 and scaled back the load proportionately using some 5744 powder. See if there are other sources out there, but you might be able to sneak up on a load doing something similar.
Ventura munitions and midway show 40-82
You’re spot on about very early, within a month or two, big game will be gone. But looking at the Great Depression, fish will go next. And there were more fish then and fewer people. There’s just way, way too many people to survive off the land. And you won’t be able to defend against desperate, hungry mobs. People need to get real and get a different plan of action.
Ventura ammunition has 40-82 cowboy loads available. Thanks Ron I appreciate you.
Regarding the 40-82 Winchester; The 17th edition of the Gun Digest's CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD has one handload using 28.0gr of IMR 4198 with a 260gr bullet at 1425 ft/s.
Load Data lists loads for the 40-82 .
PMC made a run of this ammo about 20yrs ago. Mike Venterino's book "Shooting Lever Guns Of the old West" has loading data.
Great video, Ron. I thought I scored my brother-in-law give me a scope in a box it said Bushnell elite it had a price tag on it said $579. I opened it up, and it's a no-name that has no markings on it. It's only a 3-9× 40 mm markings on it. Maybe I'll get $20. Anyway, keep up the great content, Ron. Cheers from Canada 🍻.
What people seem to forget in the survival rifle debate is that a bow is even more versatile and lighter than a 22lr and has basically infinite ammo as long as you know how to make it. For this reason i would use a bow for small game hunting and choose a high powered centerfire rifle (any caliber i can get my hands on) as my secondary weapon. The rifle would allow me to make use of shot opportunities that i would be missing out on with a .22, shotgun or bow, it would also be much better at self defense (against both humans and wildlife) than a .22 or a bow (about on par with the shotgun).
Well bows wear too, especially strings. Nothing lasts forever, but steel gives it a good run for the money.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 you can make a new bow and more arrows, you cant make new guns or more ammo without industrial equipment.
What a lot of people seem to concentrate on is self defense. In survival situations obtaining food is a much higher priority. In rare cases, self defense becomes an issue, it’s amazing though how effective even a .22 can be of discouraging a predator from continuing.
You can shoot 5.56 in a .223 wyld barrel
People make it to complicated, it’s really doesn’t matter. None of the factory offerings are different enough to prevent use, and none of the factory barrels are so thin that a tiny difference in pressure will have any effect. The same exact barrels and actions are sold with larger cartridges reaming much more material out of that chamber area and don’t explode. Do what your comfortable with, buts it’s a none issue in my house and so far absolutely nothing to report and don’t expect that to change.
I've not had a problem with shooting 5.56 in my 223 Wylde barrel.
Don't even need that really. What people ignore and he touched on is the difference in pressure testing methods between 223 and 5.56. The difference isn't nearly as wide as it first appears and if using the same pressure test for both the 5.56 falls well within the specs for 223.
But the twist rate can cause issues though I've seen tests where it was really so minor it didn't matter and some where it was very noticeable.
. 223wyle was made to shoot .223 and 5.56. Bought my father-in-law one and it is a great shooter.
@@millermanhal that's what I have but it's not what people think.
The only difference between 223 and 5.56 is chamber length by a couple thousandths. And that only exist so under combat conditions troops could still chamber a round in extremely dirty chamber because they wouldn't be able to stop and clean mid fire fight.
The wylde barrel simply splits the difference between 223 specs and military 5.56 specs in chamber length. And it's a very small amount.
The only difference between between 223 and 5.56 is a grain or two of powder, I reload to 5.56 specs and the pressure difference is at the extreme end 2000 psi if you test both rounds using the same method rather than how it is normally done. The 223 chamber is rated to almost 80,000 psi which is well above the hottest 5.56 load so it's not going to cause any damage what's so ever.
Too many people don't understand the different pressure testing methods between the military and Sammi specs and that's what accounts for the pressure difference being as high as it is. Same goes for chamber length, 223 & 5.56 are loaded to the exact same specs size wise. Same cartridge, same bullets and same overall lengths so if your gun is kept even moderately cleaned they both work in 223 barrels exactly the same. If you never clean your rifle then go with 5.56 as it'll buy you more time before it gets enough carbon to cause out of battery issues.
Good luck this season
There's one misconception in the question about cartridge naming. The .270 Winchester is not a necked down .30-'06. it was based on the original .30-'03.
As per Cartridges Of The World loading for the 40-82 Win. is as follows 260gr. lead bullet over 28 grs. IMR 4198. They got their info from Lyman #403169. They also recommend using 45 basic cases.
25gr of 5744 behind 260gr hard cast works very well. It's only running about 1300fps but I've takin deer and hogs with it no problem.
I shoot 40-82 out of my 1885 Winchester single shot rifle quite often. As far as shooting smokeless however I do not. I use all Swiss black powder and get good velocity’s with that without having to worry about trusting someone’s load data with smokeless in it.
16:00 Like this guy who never went hunting, I’ve wished I could go more often but after dad passed and a lack of access to private land I’ve quit. I’d go alone but public land in the southeast is crowded with jerks who respect nothing: others, the land, the game, or even parking.
“Ron Spomer OutdoErs…”😎🤪
Im pretty literate when it comes to firearms, but i was not aware of a 40-82.
Lyman manuals were/are the best source of information on black powder, cast bullet loads, as well as Ken Waters Pet Loads, and some data in Cartridges of the World. I'm load in 38-55 and 40-65,and those are the sources I use, as well as the internet forums and even some campfire conversation. Have fun, don't get caught!
The recipe is right there. 40 caliber with 82 grains of black powder. Bullet weight? Good question! Finding an appropriate mold is a pretty good place to start guessing. They were probably in the neighborhood of 250 to 350 grains. Good luck. I hope it's pretty on your wall.
And don't forget about cartridges of the world by barnes, it has a whole section of obsolete cartridges with usually 2 or 3 loads for each.
40-82..... start with what's known. 40 caliber bullet over 82 grains of black powder. 82 grains of black can be cross-referenced with shotgun loads using "dram equivalent" smokeless powders. Certainly would be a lot of math, but "doable".
Short of that, check out the custom loaders of obsolete ammo such as Old Western Scrounger, and Buffalo Arms, and etc. Alternatively, you could load with black powder or black powder substitute. Modern web head cases will require compression to use the full 82 grain charge of black or substitute, but again "doable".
A main point often forgotten is that those old black powder cartridges used paper patched bullets to achieve maximum velocity without leading the barrel. Paper patching can be learned via online videos, but this isn't needed with jacketed bullets or powder coated bullets.
It really boils down to how stimulated or determined a person is about returning a classic firearm "back to life".
I have an old '86 in 38-56 and have done handloads for it. But brass and bullets are occasionally available. It must have been more popular than the 40-82.
.409 bullets usually and 5477 powder. Start around 24 gr of powder. Work up slowly and carefully
I have a 2.5 by 10 by 40 on a model 70 Winchester at 06. Perfect my opinion.
To the listener who asked about Norma Bondstrike in a 6.5 Creedmore, I'm trying them out this year. My handloads are getting sub 3/4 moa group. I haven't taken anything with them yet, but opener is in 3 days, so maybe I can let you know who it performs on target soon.
I hope you keep us updated . Thank you for your time and comment
@@andrewsalacina9705 I've been waiting and hoping to take an elk this year, but I haven't been able to, but I have been able to use them on three deer. I've had reliable expansion as close as 100 yards yards and as far as 425, as well as good weight retention. They have acted exactly like you would expect a bonded bullet to act.
Ron can you do a video on rabbit hunting from top to bottom as far as shot choke combos gauge of shotgun action of the gun exc. I would love to hear your thoughts and preferences in a video
Love it your human, phone ringing . Lol
On the 40-82 he should cast the chamber and see what extant brass is closest then have a set of dies made to roll his own and molds for his bullets that would fit the bore . Could use Triple 7 or similar black powder substitute.
A google search turned up an article in Guns Magazine where such was done.
Casting the chamber isn’t necessary but slugging the bore is a very good idea. Those old guns varied by a few thousandths. Once you know your bore diameter you can have a bullet mold made to fit your gun (Hoch makes them). The brass is no longer made so most guys are using 45-90 brass. Just run it through your sizing die and trim to length. Dies might be available off the shelf or they can be ordered from one of the many die makers.
Ventura Munitions is the place to go for old black powder ammo.
Probably gonna get haters for this, but I shoot 223 and 5.56 in both ALL THE TIME. Not a single issue from literally dozens of different rifles and loads, with probably tens of thousands of rounds.
Anyone out there remember the .351 & .401 WSLs?
A good old fixed 8 power Leupold
You Americans get Guns much easier than we in Germany but Supressors are way more easy to get in Germany you go to a Store and buy one, yes we have to have them inserted in our Weaponslicence afterwards in the Townhall but thats easy and costs only a few € 😂 (i think you get a climps of our BureauCrazy with Supressors)
Hey Ron, what is your opinion on howa rifles. Just got one this year and it's been great and I dawned on me that no one in my family of hunters have ever heard of the brand. Curious of you know why it's not more popular as a brand
If any of them own a weatherby vanguard its the same as the howa action.
Hey Ron I like your choice of scopes for the guy with the Ruger 30-60 he had a $2000 budget
Another great option is the Leica Amplus 6
Great Glass precise illuminated Dot great low light scope .44 - 50-and 56mm objective lenses.
And under $1500
I believe they are one of the best Hunting Scopes available.
Cheers
Fix the white line on the desk lighting
Hello there, I'm form Paraguay, South America and I own a 40-82 winchester and I only have 16 rounds left, I got it like that and I really would like to get some Reload data and Info about brass, primers and bullet mold, thanks!
For the 40-82 I would recommend Buffalo Arms in Idaho. If they don't have it, they may well know where to get it. They deal in BP ammunition & a fair bit of obsolete.
For the gentleman asking about the .40-82 Winchester, your answer is in the name. 82 grains of black powder was the original powder charge so you probably want to back off of that a bit to be safe
I suspect he wants some data using smokeless powder.
@@KBell119that’s easy, pyrodex is a 1:1 for volume with black powder and IMR-4198 is 40% of the black powder charge from what I’ve read. More of a center fire guy so never tested the IMR so verify yourself.
@@jaydunbar7538 ... You seem to have derailed a bit. The cartridge in question, .40-82, IS center-fire. Rimfire cartridges virtually are not reloadable.
history and balistics on 22 franklin ?
cartridges of the world has a load imr4198 28grains 1425 velocity 1180 energy 260 gr lead bullet
Check local laws before hunting with a suppressor. Big game is illegal to hunt with one.
Maybe where you live, in many places it’s perfectly legal and even encouraged.
Montana doesn't allow it for big game.
@penroddavis8098
Better check your laws again.
Suppressors have been legal for all hunting in Montana since 2015 from what I'm seeing.....
Didn’t gooooo 20
I disagree respectfully about the scope assessment.
To me the first and most important aspect of a hunting scope is it’s ability to hold its zero and track with great precision.
Bushnels innovation of no external fogging of lenses a wonderful gift to hunters in cold freezing weather.
Clarity, brightness in hunting scopes is very nice, but that is what I look for in a good set of binoculars, the main tool to spot game.
Scope optics for hunting need to be good enough to put the reticle on my target and clear enough to properly see the whole animal. Target quality at massive cost increase is not needed imho.
Specific target scopes indeed need very good glass.
Right on, Hendrik. I've long preached that holding zero is job one for a scope. Consistent reticle adjustments (Tracking) are critical if you're dialing for drop compensation. Otherwise not so important. So I rate holding zero, then visual clarity, then durability as top values.
I find quality glass all around is best. You have to know what is around your target. Binoculars aren’t enough. Both need to be good. And warranty is no good on the hunt. You need quality. None of this is inexpensive.
Buy a Zeiss for your 30-06. Buy once cry once.
Guys I know a lot about the 40-82 please reach out to me for info
I have a correction Ron. You said a word wrong. I don't remember what word it was but it was definitely wrong, that should be corrected.
No no no no. He said that word just fine. It was another one..... but I forget which.😀
I use to never wear ear protection, i do now when shooting at the bench but do not wear anything when hunting when you shoot at a deer your so hyped up you dont hear the blast of the shot
You may not think you hear it, the physical damage doesn’t change in either scenario.
@@jaydunbar7538 Bingo! Totally correct.
The reason that you may not hear the shot while hunting is probably due to the ringing drowning it out and your wife telling you that you need to invest in some hearing aids! I'm a bit of an expert on this with over 40 years of experience in such matters and it happened due to the carelessness of somebody else!
You do t think you hear the shot…………..however your inner ear will still get the fully damaging effects.
Buy those electronic ear protection. They can actually improve your hearing and blocks out the loud noises like gun shots. They electronically sense loud noise over a certain decibel level.
3:16
Wait a minute… You’re using a silencer on a hunting rifle? Supersonic ammo? Does that even work?
Everybody and his momma bear are telling me that these things are useless on full power ammo.
Still loud, but substantially safer for your ears.
It's very common to use suppressors, even on supersonic ammunition. In many European controls, its expected.
Yes, John. Think of it as a muffle for your rifle. Because that's what it is. Invented by same guy who invented car muffler. Knocks sound level down to hearing safe. Looks goofy, works beautifully.
"Human animal"? LOL!😂
No Ron, human beings are not "animals".
"So God created human beings in His own image. In the image of God He created them; male and female He created them." Genesis 1:27
Check itar regulations before you take a supresssor to africa