Love's supposed to last FOREVER 💘 Buffy the Vampire Slayer s2e19 Reaction & Commentary
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer season 2 reaction
Cordelia gets a facial and Willow has a magical day while Buffy encounters her blast from the past
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What initially seems like a standalone monster of the week episode ends up as an examination of Buffy's horrible guilt, grief and inability to forgive herself. One of the cleverest ghost stories I've ever seen.
The acting by SMG and DB truly nails the climactic scene.
That kiss DESTROYED Buffy.
I love how in Dru's prophesy, she tells Angel, "She's waiting for you." Many think the "she" is Buffy, but it's actually Ms. Newman that is waiting for Angel.
"Tact is not saying true stuff"-Cordelia
I'll say this for Queen C. She's consistent.
This was the episode that convinced Joss Whedon David could carry his own show. And omg, just thinking about how you're so close to Becoming makes me so excited!
Interesting 😊 glad you’re hyped! - Sam
Becoming is gonna be great.
*Spoilers* (kind-of)
In a lot of ways, this episode set stuff up for it
But first we have the hurdle of episode 20, unfortunately😂
Really? So that's where it started.
It never ceases to amaze me how a person who could barely act got a show. It only proves me that if he could do that, anyone can.
He is just a really lucky guy. First when they got him in Buffy when he couldn't do a single thing properly, he wasn't even an actor and he got a luxury opportunity to become one while being in show, unlike everyone else who got there already having this ability. And second time when despite his very limited skills they created a separate show even.
Buffy thinks of herself as the one who destroyed Angel, and she has trouble forgiving herself for that.
While a lot of people get that Buffy feels guilty for (metaphorically) killing Angel, Angel also needs to forgive Buffy for his death. Both being forgiven and forgiving are equally important.
@@spamfilter32 I don't know whether there is a question of Angel's forgiving her because the show makes Angel and Angelus two separate people with the same memories. Angelus is the one there now and happy to be back, so he doesn't blame Buffy for his death (loss of human soul) but considers that a rebirth. He is disgusted with having the memories of loving Buffy (even though it wasn't him) and he hates her for that. YMMV, of course.
Just to add to my previous comment: I meant this is why she relates to and is angry with James; she can't forgive herself and feels she is the one who has done wrong, so she turns those feelings of self-hatred outward to him.
@HuntingViolets i don't disagree that Angel and Angelus are aeperate beings. Hut the ahow alao makes it clear that the soul exiats outside of the body and adter death. The Angel Soul exists still, and that is what needs to forgive Buffy. Only Amgel can forgive Buffy, Angelua can not. That is why the possession was able to work. Angelus can not forgive Buffy, but angel could. Just as the teacher's soul possed Angel's body, Angel's soul did too.
Maria, in your defense, this episode is one that tends to be better on rewatches for a lot of people. As mentioned in the reaction, this episode is fairly subtle and nuanced so unless you're really good at picking up on it first time or have someone to help you notice the small things, it would make sense if you didn't care for it. Saying that, this is one of my favorite gems of Buffy that doesn't tend to be talked about, so I'm glad you two enjoyed so much!
To be fair, I have seen it a bunch. It gets lost amongst the sea of great Buffy episodes for me, I suppose. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t very well-written.
I do agree about not noticing certain things on the first watch, for sure. In this case, I pretty much forgot how nicely they handled the ghost wrapping up their own story and the parallel with Buffy and Angel, but I did remember not liking some things they didn’t think through that well and the teacher/student love portrayal I didn’t particularly like.
Oh that’s interesting! I see how much praise this episode gets. Rightfully so, all things considered.
I’m glad you enjoyed our vid, we def enjoyed the episode and the whole process 😊 - Maria
One of my favorite episodes and songs. The nuances get deeper with every rewatch.
Yeah, it's on the Buffy album. Love it.
I always thought I Only Have Eyes For You was a great stand alone episode, where the tragic love affair between the teacher and student from the 1950's is repeated down through the years by anyone who is influenced by it in the school now. Great writing here in a very atmospheric episode, in which we also have the Angelus/Drusilla/Spike triangle in the background. Interesting that Buffy has no empathy for the student in the incident, of course she is using her own experience of being hurt and reflecting this in her attitude. Another interesting thing about this episode is we hear Snyder and Police Officer mention 'The Mayor' for the first time. Great scene at the end when Spike is now able to walk and is plotting his revenge. This is very much in the style of X-Files type episode, great writing again.
I'd say the writing is great overall, but there are a few little things that weren't fully thought out.
Oh for sure, the parallel with Buffy is great. Yeah, I'm looking forward to the mayor story... well, everything.
You know what, I did't see that at first, but I get what you mean about the X-files - Maria
I feel bad for most all the people victimized in this episode but especially the janitor 😢
Agreed. Poor guy's got to do time for the crime of a teenager 40 years before? Not to mention just having to live with the knowledge of having killed a person.
Not the dead teacher?
@@annajane8890Giles is the only witness. Nuff said.
It's nice to see Sam can still see some of the sides of the story maria didn't from different perspectives
This episode is one where I'm like 'oh, this has some nice moments, weird premise' until Buffy and Angelus are possessed and it all clicks into place. The parallels with the Buffy/Angel relationship on both sides is interestingly done.
This is one where the Buffy guide video might actually be quite helpful for clarifying everything. Even just on rewatch it's quite different.
this episode really shows how much davids acting is grown the transition from angel to the teacher is so slay and sarah always kills it obvs
and when he wakes up after being shot his face is so happy like UGH
My favorite of any show period. The writing is genius
This was such a fantastic episode. The themes of guilt and forgiveness. How Buffy associated with the boy, and Angel with the teacher, and what each of them needed from each other. Buffy needed forgiveness for (metaphorically) killing Angel, and Angel needed to forgive Buffy for his (metaphorical) death.
I also love how the show illustrates that forgiveness isn't something you earn or deserve. It's just something humans need. Both to give and to receive.
Sam and Maria love and cherish each other forever❤😭
The Buffy fan party (PBP) I keep talking about happebed while they were filming this episode. They thanked the party planners by giving us a set tour. So we were stabding in the Bronze set and listening to SMG in the distance yell, "Don't walk away from me, bitch!" It made no sense out of context. We git to meet John Hawkes. He would earn an Oscar nomination for Winters Bone. At the point we met him, the biggest thing was an episode of Wings and this.
Executive Producer David Greenwalt moved on from the Buffyverse a few years later and ran and/or created several canceled too soon shows. The second of which was Jake 2.0, the "missing" link between The Six Million Dollar Man and Chuck. David remembered Christopher Gorman, who played James and ended up casting him as the lead. He's done pretty well since. I particularly liked him as a blind spy technician in Covert Affairs.
Auggie ❤
Cool story! ❤
@@loftus4453 Thanks.
why do i feel like dru knew angel would suffer n she did it for the giggle n i love that for her
I know your from Australia and you guys have massive amount of critters that can end your existence there but Sunnydale is in the USA and only a couple snakes are deadly here and they aren't usually found in this area of the country so Cordelia getting bit is not very threatening, just painful and visually unpleasant.
I love your wardrobe choices for this reaction, it looks almost like you two walked out of a Dangerfield (Aus equivalent of Hot Topic, almost, for USAians)
Thank you! I did get the dress from Dangerfield 😁💜 Sam’s shirt is from a thrift store and I agree, it matches the aesthetic haha 😋 - Maria
This USAian is now going to do an online search for Dangerfield. So, thank you!!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Interesting to consider if Snyder is "good" or "bad". I always viewed him as kind of a civil servant. He's just there to keep people blind to the truth and not panicking and to cover up stuff as needed, not really there to help or hinder either side, just let business as usual keep going.
Exactly, he is a straightforward example of toxic bureaucratic power.
I think Xander was sitting on the table to avoid the snakes that might still be still be in the lunch hall a smart move imo lol
Apparently they piled clothes on Nicholas Brendon because they didn't want him looking buff and ripped... nowadays that's the bare minimum sadly
An AMAZING episode. It always has been, and ALWAYS will be. Great Post, and thank you both for sharing.
Thanks so much! 🙏🏻 We really appreciate that ✨ - Maria
This has always been one of my favorite episodes
cant wait for spike just SPIKE
Same. Can’t help it, Spike is my favorite character by far.despite his many flaws.
I adore this episode. So good on rewatches.
"confirmation bias" is what Maria was looking for hehe.
7:58 I've heard other fans mention something about Nicholas being told to stop working out or work out less because a more buff physique didn't align with Xander's character, especially at this point of the show being an uncool high school boy.
One of my top faves
It’s an interesting one! Why is it one of your faves? - Sam
@themoviebudz1988 Thanks for the spotlight, Sam. My reasons are slightly different from what they once were, but not much. I see Buffy and Angel differently now, but watching them play out the tragic forbidden story always held a place in my heart. And seeing a bit of growth in Buffy where she at first felt no sympathy for the guy to actually getting some kind of understanding. I never really thought of a full-out reason. Forbidden romance has always I'm not sure I should say fascinated but definitely interested me. I'm not sure if that made any sense. My apologies. If something better comes to mind I'll shoot it your way.
23:00 Its focused on Buffy so no her anguish likely reawakened the spirit. Or it could have been the death of Ms Calendar on school grounds.
Not one of my most favorite episodes but it has its place and there interesting role acting from Buffy and Angelus.
But I like watching your reactions. 😊
Glad you’ll enjoy it despite not being one of your favourites 😊 - Sam
@@themoviebud1988 no worries!
It’s still season 2. We have so many amazing episodes and arc’s coming up.
And it’s always fun to see your first time reaction! Hello to Maria!
Confirmation bias is the word you are looking for.
Well written, acted this episode is.
I can't believe you said this episode was "meh". It remains one of my faves, even though it is a bit forced/contrived in the analogy, it is still a fun way to do it. And character moments are really great!
One of my fave ever Buffy episodes! ❤
this is one of my favorite episodes. it's underrated for sure.
The term you were looking for in the conspiracy thing is "confirmation bias", the tendency to adhere to things that agree with one's preconceived notions and dismiss those that disagree.
I think this is one of my more favorite episodes besides the one with the dummy, i really like it when the monster isn't seen full on.
Missed the preview, but this is such a good episode. Also, noticed for the first time that the male ghost is played by Christopher Gorham from Covert Affairs
The teacher is played by Meredith Salinger ("The Journey Of Natty Gann, "Lake Placid").
Is that acclaimed character actor John Hawkes as the janitor??? Buffy really had everyone guest starring.
i’ve been binge watching criminal minds and seeing xander’s actor playing penelope’s love interest made me so happy cause it reminded me of ye ❤
Yaay, criminal minds! Love the show, rewatched it many times and will rewatch again! ✨
Made me happy too 😊 - Maria
Perhaps that should be the next show on your watch list!!! I'd watch the hell out of that :)
@jennaharris2721 we have a number of great potentials, and I hope we can get to them sooner rather than later 😁🙏🏻👌🏻 - Maria
Their love triangle is really great, your confusion about it is so interesting. I guess we'll see if anything changes later.
Oh yes yes yes yes yessss! One of THE most interesting episodes!
I remember this was one of the episodes that came I. The “B side” of the second season episodes on VHS back in the day before dvds and Blue Ray became the standard. I was always fond of it. The acting is top notch again as Buffy and Angel’s flawed relationship takes center stage
I used to watch Land of the Lost back in tne 80s. It was super obvious that it was fake, but as a kid, I loved that about the show.
Nicholas was a baseball player and they asked him to stop working out so much because he was supposed to be a nerd.
Confirmation Bias
Beat me to it
@5:05 - I think the term you were looking for is Confirmation Bias (but maybe I only think that because I assume that about every theory 👀)
I think this doesn't get commentated enough, but the other supernatural events that happened, the locker monster, the snakes and finally the wasp swarm were all about scaring/keeping people away so they could not fall victim to the recuring possession. This shows that the spirits were not actually malevolent. They didn't want to victimize new people.
This episode was the episode where, because of David Boreanaz's acting skills as Angelus being inhabited by the ghost of a female teacher, Joss realized David Boreanaz "could carry his own show."
The title of this video confuses me considering the episode's relationships are about a high school teacher with a high schooler. That's an abuse of power relationship. In comparison, Angel and Buffy are in a relationship where he is taking on the role of the teacher because the student cannot identify with him as easily as he can Buffy, which says a lot about Angel being with an underage Buffy when he, in-universe, isn't someone who can be acknowledged as close to high school age. The age inapropriateness is an abuse of power just as being a teacher is and dating a student. Sadly the 50's teacher and student also have the age-inapropriate aspect going on along with their teacher/student abuse of power relationship (not all students of their teachers are underage).
Oh that's cool. Didn't know that. Thanks!
Yeah, James and Grace's relationship is not really discussed at all - Maria
Loving the ensemble guys!!!! You guys look great :)
I get the impression the ghost(s) were watching for a while and knew not only that Buffy could relate, but that her ex was undead and therefore a bullet wouldn’t kill him. And so they use them to allow her some catharsis for her situation, while the ghosts gain forgiveness and finally leave purgatory in peace. It’s a well crafted episode. And we also get to see more of Gile’s journey after Jenny.
This was my favourite show for a long time and you will love it going forward too, I’m excited to see your reactions.
Great job on interpreting this episode Sam! Very observant. Took me a few rewatches to fully sort that out. ❤
I found this episode almost kinda boring my first watch, when I was much younger. But the more I’ve watched it over the years it’s become one of my favorites & so heartbreaking 💔 Also, Spikes moment at the end is golden! I cheered aloud first time I saw that part
The "final solution" is a phrase they might want to avoid, really.
31:30 Oh yes Angelus has a lot of exerience losing out to a sould for the truggle over that body.
A lot of people misintepret or have trouble catching the parallels between the ghost couple and the Buffy/Angel relationship as it's portrayed, mostly expect the comparison to go the other way around, but I think from Buffy's POV - younger party who fell in love with an older person in a forbidden relationship, who feels immeasurable guilt for 'killing' that person in a moment of thoughtless passion... She essentially feels like she destroyed Angel, and she needs an output for that guilt. And I would presume Nicholas Brendan was losing weight at this point, actually, given an upcoming episode.
Once again, the dead guy is needed to fix the problem of the week. The Dark Age being the other.
I think this is a great episode!
I totally love this episode and how it parallels Buffy and Angel’s relationship, especially with it being sort of inappropriate with the age gap lol because that’s how I feel about Bangel. But when it comes to Dru and Angel, I think that her behaviour really speaks to her trauma because it was Angel who tortured her into insanity, killed her family and I feel it’s kind of insinuated that there was some form of sexual assault at play. She’s now in a compromised state mentally and he takes advantage of that but we can find that some victims are drawn to their abusers and can become hypersexualised because of that past trauma. I think that is all at play here and there’s very little sympathy for Dru from the story in why she is acting this way. Angel has said himself that what he did to her was his worst crime (in Lie to Me, I think) so the fact that she celebrates Angelus’s return exemplifies how messed up that trauma has made her. I feel bad for her honestly, and I think her actions come from an extremely complex place.
I really love this episode, but one question: How did the writers of the newspaper article on them know the reasons why he killed her and then himself? Unless maybe one of them confided to someone else their relationship and then told that to the newspaper?
Nick Brendan looks thinner because they told him he needed to lose weight at the end of season 1 so he developed an eating disorder trying to lose weight out of fear of being told he was getting too fat which he thought would get him fired.
I think there's a certain episode (coming up) that he wanted to be in shape for. But I've always heard they didn't want him looking lean and fit, hence the baggy clothes.
24:30 talking abt budget just makes me reminisce on sexy praying mantis teacher bcos they borrowed that off another show cos they had no moneyyyy
8:10 Wasn't a lot of the last epsiode filmed during season 1 and they just filmed some extra secenes to make it work in season 2?
Ok, so my thoughts on this episode are....mixed.
To start, i think the scene with Angel and Buffy in the classroom while the music is playing is iconic and really well made. Personally it really stuck to me.
I also like the idea of a ghost possessing people in order to play the same scenario over and over again until it achieves a different outcome.
The acting is SOOO good.
The song choice is great. Its eery how it manages to be both romantic and depressing.
BUT i think we all know the big problem here. This was a 90s show and the way they depicted love was....not great. The teacher-student relationship is not a great dynamic to portray in this light.
But, man. Does the re-watch make me love it again and again.
We've had a few little things that were a bit off in terms storytelling and whether it was a good idea or not to show it like that. Aside from that, I agree. There are some great moments and choices in this one - Maria
@@TheBuffSummeryea, it's kind of the same thing as the age gap between Angel and Buffy, it doesn't ruin the show or make it less watchable, but it is a debatable depiction of how that would work.
While the problematic nature of the relationship is not directly referenced, it's very likely the reason that Buffy is the only Scooby not to feel sorry for James. Without that context, it'd be really fucking weird that everyone else felt sorry for the guy who dealt with a breakup by shooting his ex, but knowing that he was a teenager being taken advantage of by a grown woman in a position of authority over him makes their sympathy make a lot more sense.
I think they do the same plot better in Angel, but I did like the teacher/student thing as a framing device for Angle/Buffy, bc of the age difference.
I agree...I felt the student was condemned but very little was said about the teacher and her actions
Random trivia: Xander’s “I’m dead as hell” line @9:32 is (probably) a reference to a similar (and famous) line from Network (1976). Question: is that a reference you recognize? Network feels like it’s mostly fallen out of the cultural memory; I’m curious as to whether that’s actually the case or just me misreading things. :)
38:00 Angel get way to comfortable with Spike not being a threat, which is a mistake Spike is muich more of a warrior vampire than Angel is.
Love this episode
Thanks so much for the super chat dude! 😁🙏 - Sam
15:30 They can' reallysay one way or the other because Xander is 17 and hence a minor.
I didn’t see anyone say this but the term you were looking for is “ conformation bias”. It means you make the evidence fit your narrative cause you want it to. It’s part of our need to use patterns to make sense of our world.
4:50 confirmation bias
They told the actor who played xander to stop working out because he's meant to be the skinny nerd in the show.
13:00 I think it's confirmation bias.
8:45 min~it could be Nick's twin🤔❔…I heard he filled in for him in some episodes…
He was his body double and stuff. He wasn’t ever actually Xander. (Possibly barring one episode)
I think Sam is referancing conformation bias, which is the idea that a person is only looking for evidence that supports their theory and ignoring other evidence that contridicts that. If that make sense.
I was looking for the term. Thank you! - Maria
You're welcome!
They never said Xander and Cordy slept together, they've just made out and groped is all.
buffy is like james bcos they both got groomed and thats the moral of this ep ig ... yay .... ?
im being a brat bcos this actually my fav one off
I think you're thinking of confirmation bias.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Oye!😭🙆♀️🥰💗🖥
I love Willow, but I’m not sure why she tries to push Buffy into dating here. Seems oddly uncaring towards Buffy’s feelings.
Is the term you're looking for about conspiracy theorists, confirmation bias?
Confirmation bias effects every human. Its not something specific to "conspiracy theorists ". Do you know when that term was created , why, and by whom?
@@aliciasavage6801Sure. But in the context of this video, Sam and Maria are discussing the concept in relation to conspiracy theorists and Snyder’s behavior towards Buffy.
Yes, thank you @darkjade93 - Maria
@@aliciasavage6801 I don't like your tone 😐 I don't know what about my comment has pushed your buttons but as rachel mentioned, there's context
@@rachelmorris2254 thank you, exactly, Snyder's only looking for things that support that Buffy is a problem to get rid of
P R O M O S M
I’m not a fan of the episode. The melodrama of the Buffy/Angel relationship just isn’t for me.