But what about the large opening where the flue was? The new chimney pipe was only filing part of that space. Wouldn't that bring in a lot of cold air? Or does the facing of the insert fireplace have insulation on it to keep cold out?
The new cap on top of seals around the tubing with heat resistant caulk. There should be no air going in or out from the chimney itself. I would fill the void with non flamable insulation into the chimney void before closing the top cap though.
I put an osborne insert in my place 25 years ago. Still runs great. I'd like to see a gravity fed rocket stove install and firing. These are being used today to burn pellets, waste wood products, etc. The burn time isn't as good as a wood burner but they are cleaner
@@seanjanescheerschmidt4585 I did find one but didn't buy. I do need to get one. It's called the Liberator Rocket Stove. The best part is that it's UL approved. The bad part is there's been a waiting list.
Video is awesome for the age it is. Learning this trade right now while learning some gas line & framing work that goes along with this work sometimes. Love it so far!
First of all heat rises, and behind the stove is were the heat exchange happens. The cold air from the floor is pulled in and warmed then the fan blows it out.
That's why I'm here. I have a metal plate that it connects to, but no liner, trying to figure out what's what before I start pulling it apart (need to replace that plate due to rust)
I'm trying to get that outlet hooked up right now and wondering same thing. What kind of wire and outlets? How much heat is behind one of these? Further more, why have a receptacle at all?
I'm considering an insert. But I don't want to destroy the stonework. Are there any that will install on uneven stonework without having to destroy it?
All of these inserts have a makeup air duct that connects to the bottom rear of the insert. Most of them go straight down through the floor snd out the foundation wall similar to how a dryer vent works but with reverse louvers to allow air to flow in but not out.
@@terryallen9546 yeah that's true it does cap it what I did is just stuffed my hole with fireproof insulation the same kind used for wrapping the liner that was recommended by Rockford chimney or they actually sell a plate kit that is adjustable but easier just to pack the gap with insulation
Why do you need a new liner for the chimney? I thought that was the chimney's job? Why not have a stub pipe that vents through the dampener then daylights direct to the chimney?
extra firesafety, in Europe it actually is mandatory these days. Also makes cleaning easier. On older chimneys they can leak due to cracking, so we are not only talking about firesafety due to fire but also carbon monoxide and oxygen depletion. Having a chimney fire inside of a chimney can mean your whole house goes, brick houses yeah they can go like that too. A chimney fire inside of a liner is contained even if that would go then the chimney takes over, fire will be long dead before your house burns down. Stub pipe would do the same, easier to clean even but liner is lots cheaper. At least here in Europe. Cant have a stub pipe running trough the dampener due to, well.. common sense.
Is the liner necessary for the chimney? I just can't see the need for it to be any more than a foot or 2 above the fireplace to make sure the smoke is directed up the chimney.
As a certified chimney professional...the liner must go all the way from the appliance to the top of the chimney. If not, there is no way to clean the new liner unless you plan on pulling the insert out every year. Additionally, the appliance is designed for a 6 inch flue, by venting it into the old oversized chimney you will develop creosote at a rapid rate and likely have a chimney fire.
@@caryfreeman9552 I was early in my research on getting an insert for my fireplace. It's one of those things that I think is a "duh" for industry people (possibly also wanting to keep knowledge in industry to bolster income) but doesn't always make sense to those outside. I love finding those RUclips channels that tell you what you need to do & why. Found some obscure site that explained materials, longevity, creosote build up, temperature fluctuations & whatnot.
The metal liner is recommended - and has a smooth stainless steel interior, easier to clean than the original clay liner setup. Also 6" metal liner reduces volume of the chimney, which is essential to eliminating any build up of creosote on the clay liners. Without the reduction by 6" metal liner, you will have inefficiencies within the flue and stage 3 build up of creosote. Remember your insert with framing now reduces air coming down and up the chimney, reducing the diameter of the flue is essential to efficient burn and heating.
Nice install. I have a wood stove insert as well and I am looking for a proper how to on sweeping the chimney. How would I properly remove the swept soot from sweeping above the fire box? Do I need to remove my insert? I have an extremely tight work space to access the vent pipe connection. Thanks to anyone who can help.
Get the correct size chimney brush and pole. Go to the top of the chimney and start pushing down the chimney. Make sure your flu is open and sweep it out or use a vacuum
Question for anyone. I have an insert as well I feel like most of heat is still going up the chimney. Should I put a piece of steel around the pipe to help keep heat inside? Any ideas would help!
Yes you Should have a block off plate with a hole just big enough for the six inch liner to go through to connect the stove put some rock wool insulation on top side to keep heat in the house and not up the chimney.
@bcos5566 right, exactly why I was trying to replace that thing. What was there was holey pot metal I couldn't trust with the double wall on top of it. Everything else was easy to figure out, and it turns out making that plate isn't that complicated either, but finding guidance without the name was painful. 🤣
What about blocking heat from rising up the chimney around the stove pipe? Also a receptacle inside the fireplace? The temps off the stove are 400-600 degrees? Hope that cord is insulated well.
@@LisaMurphy it's not - Article 314.29 states, “Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building..." While some might see this insert as an "appliance", the degree of difficulty to remove the insert to service the receptacle, wiring, etc. would reasonably be considered a task of disassembling part of the building.
A wood stove insert is way more efficient than a regular fireplace. An insert is about 70% efficient to a fireplace's 20%. A fireplace will actually suck the warm air out of your house. You would notice this if it was on the first floor and you go upstairs after using it. The upper story would be cold. What makes the insert better is that it takes cold air off the floor where it's located and pushes out hot air at it's top. Remember cold air sinks to the bottom and hot air rinses. I've had an insert for over 15 years and would say it's the best investment I've ever made. If you live in a cold climate, it acts as a second furnace if your primary furnace dies in the winter time. All the wood stove insert models that I know of have an electric blower to push the hot air out. So electricity would be needed for optimal usage. A wood stove is even more efficient and you might not need electricity to run a fan for it. People use an insert where there is an already existing fireplace as demonstrated in this video.
@@AStanton1966 I have a question about that. What about a damper? Is there one that works at the level of the insert? Or do you have to have a top of the chimney one? I have read that those are not the best in some RUclips videos??? Wondering what to do to stop those cold air downdrafts.
@@terry2346 All inserts have some type of damper that blocks off the flue pipe going out the chimney. They are called catalytic converters. Mine is simply a metal box that is stuffed with fire resistant materials that allows gas to come out its vents to be burned. Every year I remove the converter to clean the flue pipe, then pop it back in after cleaning. There's no control on them to worry about. Your only concern is the damper on the bottom of the insert that controls air flow into the stove. Because of the converters, you never want to burn anything funky like pizza boxes or plastics. And, from time to time, you do have to replace the converter. They can get warped by the heat through time. Presently, I'm on my 2nd converter after 15 years.
@@terry2346The video didn't show this but once the 6" x 35 ft liner runs the full length of chimney it ends with a metal plate on rooftop, atop the ceramic liner. This is sealed with epoxy and reduces any downflow of air. The top of liner is fitted with an adapter and epoxy around the gap there, before fitting it with a removable cap. The wood insert has its own flue and framing to close down air gaps leaving the room into the chimney. Others mentioned adding insulation and a second plate near the original flue, but I have not seen this done.
I get that this is an in place upgrade. Surely, if someone was building a new home and planned a fireplace insert - they'd have options to make the chimney far less of a problem for heat loss. Make it so it could be turned into a regular chimney but fully insulated initially, designed for a fireplace insert.
Typically in a new construction home, you would install what’s called a Zero Clearance Fireplace. It’s kind of like an insert and a fireplace combined. Basically it’s an fireplace box that can be framed into the house
Open fireplaces are only 30% efficient and lose a lot of heat whether running or not. Conditioned air from the home is being pulled up the chimney, rather than heating outside air to add to the warmth of the house. An insert has elements that allow the combustion gases to undergo a second burn reaching over 80% efficiency. New fireplaces should all be inserts with this level efficiency … unless you truely love to spend money on something for looks rather than function.
Inserts rarely reach the back wall of fireplaces. As long as there is an air gap it should be fine, heat wants to go straight up that's why blowers and wires are under the main firebox
How does the bird cage basket secure to the liner? Is it just floating there? Is there something that secures the liner to the chimney to keep it suspended at the proper height?
Why does a liner have to be installed in a masonry fireplace for an insert? I have knowledge of a fireplace and heatilator but not the inserts. I think this would be a great option for backup heat. A fireplace on it's own tends to take more heat out the chimney than it puts in the house so that is my reason for looking at the insert. Do you have to have electricity to use it for emergency heat?
I'm no expert.... the electricity is used for a fan to blow the hot air generated from around the unit into the room. You don't have to use fan/electricity, but it won't work that well without using the integrated fan. As for the chimney insert.. not sure on that, insert might be necessary to draw air/work properly... you could call the mfg on that question. On another issue, I would think that a "fresh air intake" would be used to avoid pulling warm air from the interior, thus defeating the purpose of warming the room. A fresh air intake would be a separate hose (like a dryer vent hose) coming out the back of the unit and pulling air from the outside, thus, no warmed interior air would escape up the chimney. Folks who install stand alone stoves to heat their cabins 100%... typically use fresh air intakes. Not to mention carbon monoxide issues of not using a fresh air intake.
I'm guessing the liner makes the insert more efficient while venting the carbon monoxide better and giving a smaller flue pipe to clean.
5 лет назад
Am going to be getting a free wood stove insert -it will just fit - (tho now worry about 2-3 inch? access (top arch's) to connecting insert to flue) also wonder on how to get this thing insulated (is a 1979 house fireplace) It even frosts at the back wall in winter
We're in the Dalton Massachusetts & we're going to be purchasing a beautiful old home that was built by the previous owners, he was a cabinet maker by trade and built a beautiful home. His widow put wood stoves into the fireplaces in the home but they've since been removed to sell the house. My husband and I would love to use the fire places but don't know much about them, do we need a fireplace insert, how often should we clean it etc. if you could recommend information sources I would really appreciate it! Thanks!
Stephanie Buzzella congrats on your new house, we are closing at the beginning of September and can't wait!! So to answer your question, you don't NEED wood burning inserts, but they're super efficient and will help heat your entire home MUCH easier and cheaper than a traditional fireplace. Especially in an older home, but as in the video, the heat is kept in and around the box and retained by the cast iron, steel, or other product and they have one or more blowers to push and circulate that air throughout your home instead of out the chimney . Some estimated examples would be if you used a regular fireplace you might burn 12 cords of wood (approximate $100-$150 each cord) and struggle to keep your house at 60 degrees plus needing to use other heat sources. With an insert you can potentially use only 4-7 cords (depending on the winter length/severity and house insulation) and easily keep your home at 70+ degrees. Some people have to open a window in 5 degree weather and strip to a t shirt!! These are general estimates, but an insert with the use of cold air returns, circulating fans, floor vents etc are amazing. Plus you don't have to use wood, you can use a pellet stove, have ventless gas inserts put in with a propane tank even if you don't have a natural gas line. Our house has a pellet stove insert and im immediately swapping it out for a coal stove insert because coal is MUCH less work than wood, extremely efficient, and somewhat inexpensive. Anthracite coal is also very clean despite eco propaganda. You have much to learn, please Google and Google until you know what's best, there are entire forums and communities online devoted to wood burning, you can even hook up your hot water and use it to heat for "free", your already producing the heat, why not? Good luck!! I hope this helped ac little . I would ask the listing agent if you can get the old inserts back!!
I was wondering if the process is the same if you have a non masonary chimney? Can you give me some advice on how to put an insert into a non masonary chimney? I'm prepared to rip out the old wood fireplace(its too small) and re-frame the existing space with mantle cabinets etc...
The wood burning inserts require a masonry firebox that is to code. you might be able to look into the free standing wood burning stove setup that has mason/stone flooring and with vent to the chimney.
Re-watch the last 30 seconds - there is a black facade (surround panel) that covers up all the working parts including where they reached in to attach the flue and the bottom control panel. The panel covers what used to be the 1st row above the opening as well as 3-4 inches on the left and right.
i have an older buck stove it is gas fired and free standing. there is a sensor on the back of it. it is a model 60. what is the sensor for and how do you wire up the 2 black 16 gauge wires ?
That log lighter sounds ridiculously dangerous. What if it rusts out. I hate the idea of having to cut out the damper and hammering out those bricks. Is there no other way? Is there anyway to use the chimney without the stainless steel flew?
@@jasonwelch2415you can do better if you find an independent installer/sweep and buy direct or online. My total was around $4k. I got a nice Osburn, which was $3k. Install is $1k. Minus tax credit (30%)
They sell both steel wire and plastic wire brushes of many sizes for homeowners to use. You attach to a pole or flexible rod to feed up or down liner. It's pretty simple. Look at the Imperial hearth products site, i used a 3 inch plastic for my 5 foot section of pellet stove piping but im switching to coal this year so i bought a 6 inch steel wire to get the main 6 inch liner once pellet insert is out.
Liners also accumulate MUCH less creosote than a masonry fireplace exposed to weather conditions constantly, especially the insulated ones as shown. But, maintenance should always be performed, its just much easier with an insert .
whats the name of the company, who's installing that Jotal insert? anybody? Plus, I love that pre insulated liner, but I hate that its all light flex. that stuff can be a pain to work with.
Spot on. I was wondering why they wouldn't run a whip directly to the front of the unit where the connections were made so that the splices and/or receptacle remains accessible. One would think UL listings would only be given if the totality of the installation methods worked together to produce a code-legal and safe installation. Here it seems like the installer free-styled it.
If you understand how a wood stove is built , you wouldn’t panic. There is very little heat transfer to the rear bottom. Why would you ever have to get to the plug anyway?
Hoping someone can answer a question for me. So my mother's home has a wood stove that she can no longer use due to the flu becoming stopped up (we think a piece on the inside has broken off and become jammed in there.....and frankly none of us have several hundred dollars minimum to spare to pay anyone fix it. Well the chimney has three separate flues: one that goes to a living room fireplace and two that go to the basement, one for the wood stove and one for a never finished fireplace (the flue and back were completed but the bottom was never finished). The other two flues have basically never been used. Is it possible (and safe) to just move the wood stove over and put it in front of that unfinished fireplace, and maybe run the pipe up into to the bottom of the flue and just let the smoke go up it (just like if you were burning a fire directly in that fireplace)?
Call an expert at least for a consultation. If you mess it up, carbon monoxide can kill you. It was normal for residential chimneys to have two or three flues. One for each level of fireplace, and one for the furnace. You weren't allowed to have furnace and a fireplace in the same flue. Most furnaces don't even need chimneys now. If you don't have a chimney cap, birds or other animals are probably nesting in all three.
My assumption is that the homeowner wanted to capture the heat thereby needing circulation around the box with blowers out to the living room? You showed the breakout of the old brick but didn't show the reinstall and cleanup of the brick.
There's no heat around the box by code. It's self contained. You could install this in a dry walled box and have it touch the walls it stays so cool. As far as reinstall of the bricks, they bang out a hole big enough for the vent and that's about it, no other brick work.
MRrwmac no heat? No it will reach up to 45% of the inner casing temperature. And if u doing drywalling you should use steel stud and track as a frame and insolate the fireplace aswell so the heat doesnt escape up the chimney
Not true at all max. There is still allot of heat outside the outer shell. Inserts absolutely cannot be put in a drywall box. They are designed to go in a fireplace.
Im new to fireplaces and we bought a house that has an old fashion fire place Not too sure which fire place insert would be best for max heat but also safety ..... I want the best of both worlds 😂
I just had this done today. Had the wood stove already as the previous owner left it and did not install it. Retail for that is $2200 though. Install of liner was $2500.
A lot of fireplaces from 60s through 90s used "Gas Log Sets". They had ceramic logs that would glow, but were so energy inefficient that the EPA wouldn't even allow them to be rated as a heat source. To make the gas burn orange, to look like a wood fire, the gas has to burn horribly. A decent wood burning insert should be about 70% efficient and produce about 50 to 80 K BTU.
What you saw was a gas log lighter, a piece of black iron with multiple orofices along its length that leads to a valve adjacent to the firebox. It was not used as a source of heat, but rather in lieu of kindling, as a means to reduce the effort to start the fire. Once the fire was underway, the gas would be turned off. They're completely safe, but as someone who grew up in a house with these log lighters (in both our fireplaces) they were seldom used, as they proved to be less effective at establishing a fire than the traditional methods.
Fireplace have some benefits. The smell is great and it heats the materials which creates radiant heat. However, it draws the air from the house, making other rooms cooler. Fireplaces are good for one room cabin. And insert has two hoses and intake that it pulls from outside and exhaust that goes back up the chimney.
What works and works excellent is? Cast Iron stoves The fireplace is one of the MOST USELESS PITS THERE ARE. But i have to use my fireplace. What i did. THAT SAVE A BUNCH OF MONEY WAS. Got some flue pipe and made a manifold around the damper. for the Fire to heat up this SS pipe and push air threw the pipe to the outlet on front out into the room. This is cheaper and better than a insert. I increased my heat outlet up to 25% more efficient
No. Because the chimney itself must be 'part of' the origin of the fire. If u only go up 5' or howEVER many feet.. If it's not 'air tight' so to speak.. The smoke will come 'back into' the house. (The chimney actually draws the smoke UP like a natural vacuum) 😎🚬 So to summarize: the chimney ORIGINATES at the fire & ends at a point OUTSIDE.
The major issue with brick chimneys is that they leak combustion gasses back into your house through the bricks. The liner is the safety fix for that. You could also have your chimney relined with mortar or clay pipe, but it would cost more than the liner.
This cant be real. No soot got into the guys eyes while using the plasma torch. No soot on anyones clothes, no cut bloody fingers from the sharp edges. Hmmmm
Most of the time you see some really dumb installations on RUclips. This one is top notch. Excellent product and good execution. A few points. These stoves are heavy. The demo of the damper and brick was done ok but if you rent the demo hammer ( you will need one on some of the harder brick jobs ) and remember to be careful on the roof. Ventilation of the fireplace is critical. You don’t want to dust your house. A small box fan or a cheap blower fan will work on top of the chimney flue. A step ladder is better to slowly lower the liner in. Make sure you have gloves and goggles. As a rule I’d recommend hiring a professional chimney inspector to verify that your fireplace and chimney are properly constructed. Consult your Local city or county Inspector. Contact your insurance company to clarify your coverage if you install it. Best Wishes
It is structurally sound! The back of the firebox has no structural load to keep the chimney standing. All they needed to do if they wanted was put some insulation or backfill in the hollow space behind the back wall of the firebox, if it’s a exterior chimney.
You make up for it by sealing the insert against the fireplace so you arent losing as much heated house air through the flue while it is burning. When you use the insert blower fan to pull air around the insert, it circulates that clean warm air back into the room. Half of any masonry chimney is outside anyway, so you weren't getting as much of a bargain as you thought.
please whatever you people do. Do not install one of these in a drywall box surrounding or touching the stove it does get hot.. Minimum clearance of any thing combustible would be 18in.
Lol you don’t use a clay cap for a 6” flex... if there was a fire in this home relating to the fireplace insurance would not cover it because there were many things not done to code here
@El_Dude You can use fiberglass insulation...it's in the installation instructions....insulated liner is a must for exterior chimneys...the guys that dont use this suck at what they do.
No you can't use fiberglass insulation it is not rated for the temperatures involved. And it doesn't block air movement either. Rock wool or ceramic wool with a sheet metal plate is the best solution
Where, down at the damper? It’s sealed at the top with a top plate, collar and cap. The only reason to seal the damper/throat/smoke chamber would be if there was another flue inside the chimney with another appliance that could potentially be compromised and letting carbon monoxide inside the now sealed fireplace flue. There is no other flue being used in this chimney so no reason, except a cold space because of the exterior chimney cold masonry, but it really shouldn’t be a problem because the tile is still in place.
i dont trust those tin drier vent chimney adapters. im sure they are ok. i have double wall going into triple wall and still worry about melting my stack. caveman has imprinted memories that are hard to shake.
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But what about the large opening where the flue was? The new chimney pipe was only filing part of that space. Wouldn't that bring in a lot of cold air? Or does the facing of the insert fireplace have insulation on it to keep cold out?
The new cap on top of seals around the tubing with heat resistant caulk. There should be no air going in or out from the chimney itself. I would fill the void with non flamable insulation into the chimney void before closing the top cap though.
Fire requires oxygen to burn which it gets from the air coming in.
I put an osborne insert in my place 25 years ago. Still runs great.
I'd like to see a gravity fed rocket stove install and firing. These are being used today to burn pellets, waste wood products, etc. The burn time isn't as good as a wood burner but they are cleaner
Bee Bob have you found anything in the last year on this? I'm interested in seeing a similar product package/ design
@@seanjanescheerschmidt4585 I did find one but didn't buy. I do need to get one. It's called the Liberator Rocket Stove. The best part is that it's UL approved. The bad part is there's been a waiting list.
These tools are all so impressive.....each project they show use such amazing tools!!!
When you do it professionally you got to have high end tools.
Video is awesome for the age it is. Learning this trade right now while learning some gas line & framing work that goes along with this work sometimes. Love it so far!
How is the electric cord protected from the heat put off by the stove?
Wondering the same!
First of all heat rises, and behind the stove is were the heat exchange happens. The cold air from the floor is pulled in and warmed then the fan blows it out.
The insert is probably insulated with Rockwool or something.. the same reason your cabinets and walls don't burn when you use your oven
Do you plug up the open space since you got rid of the damper? If so how.
That's why I'm here. I have a metal plate that it connects to, but no liner, trying to figure out what's what before I start pulling it apart (need to replace that plate due to rust)
How does the electricity outlet handle the heat coming off of the stove
I'm trying to get that outlet hooked up right now and wondering same thing. What kind of wire and outlets?
How much heat is behind one of these? Further more, why have a receptacle at all?
Yeah i was thinking it would be better to hard wire it.
The insert is insulated.. just like your stove
Is it a big increase in heat?
Won't the heat from the insert damage the electrical outlet behind the wood burning stove
No. The insert is lined with fire brick that dissipates all of the heat.
I'm considering an insert. But I don't want to destroy the stonework. Are there any that will install on uneven stonework without having to destroy it?
I’ve seen people grind down their uneven stones in a border around the fireplace to fit a shroud. I have the same issue
What about make up air? Does this unit pull cold makeup outside air from electrical outlets and under doors chilling the house?
Yep.
In this day and age.....not a great idea. I'd assume there would be a retrofit to pull outside combustion air
All of these inserts have a makeup air duct that connects to the bottom rear of the insert. Most of them go straight down through the floor snd out the foundation wall similar to how a dryer vent works but with reverse louvers to allow air to flow in but not out.
They made it look easy
So it looked like you did not reseal up that large dampener hole correct??
It looked like that vent cap on the roof sealed off the old flue.
@@terryallen9546 yeah that's true it does cap it what I did is just stuffed my hole with fireproof insulation the same kind used for wrapping the liner that was recommended by Rockford chimney or they actually sell a plate kit that is adjustable but easier just to pack the gap with insulation
You need to seal the area around the new flue liner.
Why do you need a new liner for the chimney? I thought that was the chimney's job? Why not have a stub pipe that vents through the dampener then daylights direct to the chimney?
extra firesafety, in Europe it actually is mandatory these days. Also makes cleaning easier. On older chimneys they can leak due to cracking, so we are not only talking about firesafety due to fire but also carbon monoxide and oxygen depletion.
Having a chimney fire inside of a chimney can mean your whole house goes, brick houses yeah they can go like that too. A chimney fire inside of a liner is contained even if that would go then the chimney takes over, fire will be long dead before your house burns down. Stub pipe would do the same, easier to clean even but liner is lots cheaper. At least here in Europe.
Cant have a stub pipe running trough the dampener due to, well.. common sense.
Will this heat the whole house?
Can the damper be closed while having a fire?
No
Is the liner necessary for the chimney? I just can't see the need for it to be any more than a foot or 2 above the fireplace to make sure the smoke is directed up the chimney.
As a certified chimney professional...the liner must go all the way from the appliance to the top of the chimney. If not, there is no way to clean the new liner unless you plan on pulling the insert out every year. Additionally, the appliance is designed for a 6 inch flue, by venting it into the old oversized chimney you will develop creosote at a rapid rate and likely have a chimney fire.
@@caryfreeman9552 I was early in my research on getting an insert for my fireplace. It's one of those things that I think is a "duh" for industry people (possibly also wanting to keep knowledge in industry to bolster income) but doesn't always make sense to those outside. I love finding those RUclips channels that tell you what you need to do & why. Found some obscure site that explained materials, longevity, creosote build up, temperature fluctuations & whatnot.
Does this add enough heat to the house to make it worth the cost ?
its nice but what if the power goes out is there a by pass for controlling the vents
Vents are manual. It will still run just fine without power. Power is for the blower fan that blows more heat out into the room.
@@jocodashcam295 thats what i thought but im a noob at it thx for the info
How well does that liner hold up to cleaning?
Way better than traditional terra cotta flue. As long as you burn dry cured wood, it will come right off completely
The metal liner is recommended - and has a smooth stainless steel interior, easier to clean than the original clay liner setup. Also 6" metal liner reduces volume of the chimney, which is essential to eliminating any build up of creosote on the clay liners. Without the reduction by 6" metal liner, you will have inefficiencies within the flue and stage 3 build up of creosote. Remember your insert with framing now reduces air coming down and up the chimney, reducing the diameter of the flue is essential to efficient burn and heating.
Nice install. I have a wood stove insert as well and I am looking for a proper how to on sweeping the chimney. How would I properly remove the swept soot from sweeping above the fire box? Do I need to remove my insert? I have an extremely tight work space to access the vent pipe connection.
Thanks to anyone who can help.
That will vary depending upon your insert. There is usually either a baffle to pull down or a bypass to open giving you access. Read your manual
Get the correct size chimney brush and pole. Go to the top of the chimney and start pushing down the chimney. Make sure your flu is open and sweep it out or use a vacuum
Can you use gloss paint on a exterior metal door
Question for anyone. I have an insert as well I feel like most of heat is still going up the chimney. Should I put a piece of steel around the pipe to help keep heat inside? Any ideas would help!
Is the insert wide open at the top? Does it have a blower motor? Why do you feel like you’re losing most of the heat up the chimney?
Yes you Should have a block off plate with a hole just big enough for the six inch liner to go through to connect the stove put some rock wool insulation on top side to keep heat in the house and not up the chimney.
@@justinhughes452 thanks, been trying to figure outwhat that's called. My wood stove just passes through the plate and vents into the chimney.
@@nameless-og you need to use a 6" metal liner all the way to top of chimney, otherwise you get inefficiency of burning and poor heat retention.
@bcos5566 right, exactly why I was trying to replace that thing. What was there was holey pot metal I couldn't trust with the double wall on top of it. Everything else was easy to figure out, and it turns out making that plate isn't that complicated either, but finding guidance without the name was painful. 🤣
What about blocking heat from rising up the chimney around the stove pipe?
Also a receptacle inside the fireplace? The temps off the stove are 400-600 degrees? Hope that cord is insulated well.
I can't believe that AC outlet is legal!!! I would not want that in my fireplace in a million years!!
Wow you people are ignorant lol
@@LisaMurphy it's not - Article 314.29 states, “Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible without removing any part of the building..." While some might see this insert as an "appliance", the degree of difficulty to remove the insert to service the receptacle, wiring, etc. would reasonably be considered a task of disassembling part of the building.
@@steveloux4709 And I'm not a contractor or an electrician but that just jumped out. This show is pretty flaky to show that as "acceptable'.
Is this more efficient than regular fireplace, also would it work without electricity.
A wood stove insert is way more efficient than a regular fireplace. An insert is about 70% efficient to a fireplace's 20%. A fireplace will actually suck the warm air out of your house. You would notice this if it was on the first floor and you go upstairs after using it. The upper story would be cold. What makes the insert better is that it takes cold air off the floor where it's located and pushes out hot air at it's top. Remember cold air sinks to the bottom and hot air rinses. I've had an insert for over 15 years and would say it's the best investment I've ever made. If you live in a cold climate, it acts as a second furnace if your primary furnace dies in the winter time. All the wood stove insert models that I know of have an electric blower to push the hot air out. So electricity would be needed for optimal usage. A wood stove is even more efficient and you might not need electricity to run a fan for it. People use an insert where there is an already existing fireplace as demonstrated in this video.
@@AStanton1966 I have a question about that. What about a damper? Is there one that works at the level of the insert? Or do you have to have a top of the chimney one? I have read that those are not the best in some RUclips videos??? Wondering what to do to stop those cold air downdrafts.
@@terry2346 All inserts have some type of damper that blocks off the flue pipe going out the chimney. They are called catalytic converters. Mine is simply a metal box that is stuffed with fire resistant materials that allows gas to come out its vents to be burned. Every year I remove the converter to clean the flue pipe, then pop it back in after cleaning. There's no control on them to worry about. Your only concern is the damper on the bottom of the insert that controls air flow into the stove. Because of the converters, you never want to burn anything funky like pizza boxes or plastics. And, from time to time, you do have to replace the converter. They can get warped by the heat through time. Presently, I'm on my 2nd converter after 15 years.
@@terry2346The video didn't show this but once the 6" x 35 ft liner runs the full length of chimney it ends with a metal plate on rooftop, atop the ceramic liner. This is sealed with epoxy and reduces any downflow of air. The top of liner is fitted with an adapter and epoxy around the gap there, before fitting it with a removable cap. The wood insert has its own flue and framing to close down air gaps leaving the room into the chimney. Others mentioned adding insulation and a second plate near the original flue, but I have not seen this done.
So how do you clean the chimney “pipe”?
They should make a brush clean from the roof enough rods to go the length
I get that this is an in place upgrade. Surely, if someone was building a new home and planned a fireplace insert - they'd have options to make the chimney far less of a problem for heat loss. Make it so it could be turned into a regular chimney but fully insulated initially, designed for a fireplace insert.
Typically in a new construction home, you would install what’s called a Zero Clearance Fireplace. It’s kind of like an insert and a fireplace combined. Basically it’s an fireplace box that can be framed into the house
Open fireplaces are only 30% efficient and lose a lot of heat whether running or not. Conditioned air from the home is being pulled up the chimney, rather than heating outside air to add to the warmth of the house.
An insert has elements that allow the combustion gases to undergo a second burn reaching over 80% efficiency.
New fireplaces should all be inserts with this level efficiency … unless you truely love to spend money on something for looks rather than function.
Will the heat affect the plug?
John salchichon g
bad place for it ..it will fail
Inserts rarely reach the back wall of fireplaces. As long as there is an air gap it should be fine, heat wants to go straight up that's why blowers and wires are under the main firebox
Will a fireplace insert heat the home better than a fireplace even if the electricity goes out?
Yes, the radiant heat coming off the front of the stove would still be better than just an open fireplace
Open fireplaces are a net loss of heat. Modern inserts will convect heat even without a blower in addition to radiating it.
What holds down the chimney cap? Just silicone?
It looks like it has a couple of screw holes on each side, for setscrews.
How does the bird cage basket secure to the liner?
Is it just floating there?
Is there something that secures the liner to the chimney to keep it suspended at the proper height?
I was wondering the same thing lol
Why does a liner have to be installed in a masonry fireplace for an insert? I have knowledge of a fireplace and heatilator but not the inserts. I think this would be a great option for backup heat. A fireplace on it's own tends to take more heat out the chimney than it puts in the house so that is my reason for looking at the insert. Do you have to have electricity to use it for emergency heat?
I'm no expert.... the electricity is used for a fan to blow the hot air generated from around the unit into the room. You don't have to use fan/electricity, but it won't work that well without using the integrated fan. As for the chimney insert.. not sure on that, insert might be necessary to draw air/work properly... you could call the mfg on that question.
On another issue, I would think that a "fresh air intake" would be used to avoid pulling warm air from the interior, thus defeating the purpose of warming the room. A fresh air intake would be a separate hose (like a dryer vent hose) coming out the back of the unit and pulling air from the outside, thus, no warmed interior air would escape up the chimney. Folks who install stand alone stoves to heat their cabins 100%... typically use fresh air intakes. Not to mention carbon monoxide issues of not using a fresh air intake.
I'm guessing the liner makes the insert more efficient while venting the carbon monoxide better and giving a smaller flue pipe to clean.
Am going to be getting a free wood stove insert -it will just fit - (tho now worry about 2-3 inch? access (top arch's) to connecting insert to flue) also wonder on how to get this thing insulated (is a 1979 house fireplace) It even frosts at the back wall in winter
Where's the follow up video of how that outlet and chord behind the firebox melted😂
Does your cord melt or cabinets light on fire when you use your stove
😂
I really like the stack liner and the insert . Is there anyway you could give me product info?
Looks nice.
We're in the Dalton Massachusetts & we're going to be purchasing a beautiful old home that was built by the previous owners, he was a cabinet maker by trade and built a beautiful home. His widow put wood stoves into the fireplaces in the home but they've since been removed to sell the house. My husband and I would love to use the fire places but don't know much about them, do we need a fireplace insert, how often should we clean it etc. if you could recommend information sources I would really appreciate it! Thanks!
Clearly I'm over tired and should have proof read my comment before posting. I apologize for the errors
Stephanie Buzzella congrats on your new house, we are closing at the beginning of September and can't wait!! So to answer your question, you don't NEED wood burning inserts, but they're super efficient and will help heat your entire home MUCH easier and cheaper than a traditional fireplace. Especially in an older home, but as in the video, the heat is kept in and around the box and retained by the cast iron, steel, or other product and they have one or more blowers to push and circulate that air throughout your home instead of out the chimney . Some estimated examples would be if you used a regular fireplace you might burn 12 cords of wood (approximate $100-$150 each cord) and struggle to keep your house at 60 degrees plus needing to use other heat sources. With an insert you can potentially use only 4-7 cords (depending on the winter length/severity and house insulation) and easily keep your home at 70+ degrees. Some people have to open a window in 5 degree weather and strip to a t shirt!! These are general estimates, but an insert with the use of cold air returns, circulating fans, floor vents etc are amazing. Plus you don't have to use wood, you can use a pellet stove, have ventless gas inserts put in with a propane tank even if you don't have a natural gas line. Our house has a pellet stove insert and im immediately swapping it out for a coal stove insert because coal is MUCH less work than wood, extremely efficient, and somewhat inexpensive. Anthracite coal is also very clean despite eco propaganda. You have much to learn, please Google and Google until you know what's best, there are entire forums and communities online devoted to wood burning, you can even hook up your hot water and use it to heat for "free", your already producing the heat, why not? Good luck!! I hope this helped ac little . I would ask the listing agent if you can get the old inserts back!!
I was wondering if the process is the same if you have a non masonary chimney? Can you give me some advice on how to put an insert into a non masonary chimney? I'm prepared to rip out the old wood fireplace(its too small) and re-frame the existing space with mantle cabinets etc...
The wood burning inserts require a masonry firebox that is to code. you might be able to look into the free standing wood burning stove setup that has mason/stone flooring and with vent to the chimney.
If your planning on doing this with a chimney that hasn't been in use for decades, is there any risk of debris igniting in the chimney?
So grinding down the stone around the fireplace wasn't really needed judging by the finished pictures?
Re-watch the last 30 seconds - there is a black facade (surround panel) that covers up all the working parts including where they reached in to attach the flue and the bottom control panel. The panel covers what used to be the 1st row above the opening as well as 3-4 inches on the left and right.
Pause and look at 2:36 vs 3:12 vs 3:36. You can see that the frame that goes around the fireplace insert covers the flattened out bricks.
Silly question - with the cap stuck on with the silicone, and this flexible flue - how in the world does a person clean it?
from the bottom up they do it now with power tools to help.
Do you have to ask your county for permit or are you allowed to just convert like that ?
I made it with Woodglut plans!
no sealant used on the connections like furnace cement ? I wonder if it whistles when it draws ?
No no sealant is needed at all
i have an older buck stove it is gas fired and free standing. there is a sensor on the
back of it. it is a model 60. what is the sensor for and how do you wire up the 2
black 16 gauge wires ?
Say it's freezing and you just lost Power how do you lite it if there's no power ?
With a match?
@@jpperry2117 lmao
That log lighter sounds ridiculously dangerous. What if it rusts out.
I hate the idea of having to cut out the damper and hammering out those bricks. Is there no other way? Is there anyway to use the chimney without the stainless steel flew?
How much would something like this cost to buy and have installed?
wood burning inserts are around $3500+ and it costs to install. the chimney insert set up may run another $1000 by the time you insulate and cap it.
I just got two quotes. One for 8k and another for 7200. Install and everything. Debating tacking this job myself
@@jasonwelch2415you can do better if you find an independent installer/sweep and buy direct or online. My total was around $4k. I got a nice Osburn, which was $3k. Install is $1k. Minus tax credit (30%)
How do you clean creosote out of a corrugated pipe?
They sell both steel wire and plastic wire brushes of many sizes for homeowners to use. You attach to a pole or flexible rod to feed up or down liner. It's pretty simple. Look at the Imperial hearth products site, i used a 3 inch plastic for my 5 foot section of pellet stove piping but im switching to coal this year so i bought a 6 inch steel wire to get the main 6 inch liner once pellet insert is out.
Liners also accumulate MUCH less creosote than a masonry fireplace exposed to weather conditions constantly, especially the insulated ones as shown. But, maintenance should always be performed, its just much easier with an insert .
And, you'll burn a lot less wood so wont need to clean often.
whats the name of the company, who's installing that Jotal insert? anybody? Plus, I love that pre insulated liner, but I hate that its all light flex. that stuff can be a pain to work with.
Now that's nice!
Went from gas to electric? I would have kept the gas and did I gas log insert only because what if you lose power
Electrical outlet covered by stove and made inaccessible is an obvious code violation. TOS should've caught this.
Spot on. I was wondering why they wouldn't run a whip directly to the front of the unit where the connections were made so that the splices and/or receptacle remains accessible. One would think UL listings would only be given if the totality of the installation methods worked together to produce a code-legal and safe installation. Here it seems like the installer free-styled it.
@@steveloux4709 found that out when I installed my dishwasher, easy to forget if you're not in the trades.
Because it's real life, the plumber said that's not my problem 🤣
the surround trim is removable for service which makes it accessible.
@@PathasherWe have a winner 🎉
Good job 👍
Dont you need to wrap the chimney liner?
It’s called, pre-insulated liner. It’s already insulated.
What's the cost of the work?
You cannot have that outlet buried behind the insert like that. It must be accessible. You gonna pull the whole fireplace out to get to it?
Anthony Gregorio not to mention the heat it will be exposed to
If you understand how a wood stove is built , you wouldn’t panic. There is very little heat transfer to the rear bottom. Why would you ever have to get to the plug anyway?
@@ProfessionalDad Mr Professional it doesn’t change the fact that it’s against code to make that outlet inaccessible.
@@anthonygregorio2208 its as accessible as the one behind your fridge
@@anthonygregorio2208what about a fridge outlet
Hoping someone can answer a question for me. So my mother's home has a wood stove that she can no longer use due to the flu becoming stopped up (we think a piece on the inside has broken off and become jammed in there.....and frankly none of us have several hundred dollars minimum to spare to pay anyone fix it.
Well the chimney has three separate flues: one that goes to a living room fireplace and two that go to the basement, one for the wood stove and one for a never finished fireplace (the flue and back were completed but the bottom was never finished). The other two flues have basically never been used. Is it possible (and safe) to just move the wood stove over and put it in front of that unfinished fireplace, and maybe run the pipe up into to the bottom of the flue and just let the smoke go up it (just like if you were burning a fire directly in that fireplace)?
Im not a handy man by any means but i do not see why that would be a problem
Call an expert at least for a consultation. If you mess it up, carbon monoxide can kill you.
It was normal for residential chimneys to have two or three flues. One for each level of fireplace, and one for the furnace.
You weren't allowed to have furnace and a fireplace in the same flue.
Most furnaces don't even need chimneys now.
If you don't have a chimney cap, birds or other animals are probably nesting in all three.
My assumption is that the homeowner wanted to capture the heat thereby needing circulation around the box with blowers out to the living room? You showed the breakout of the old brick but didn't show the reinstall and cleanup of the brick.
There's no heat around the box by code. It's self contained. You could install this in a dry walled box and have it touch the walls it stays so cool. As far as reinstall of the bricks, they bang out a hole big enough for the vent and that's about it, no other brick work.
MRrwmac no heat? No it will reach up to 45% of the inner casing temperature. And if u doing drywalling you should use steel stud and track as a frame and insolate the fireplace aswell so the heat doesnt escape up the chimney
Not true at all max. There is still allot of heat outside the outer shell. Inserts absolutely cannot be put in a drywall box. They are designed to go in a fireplace.
@@Scraps2010 if that was true then the electric cord and outlet would melt! Think about it!
Thanks!
how do they could control the flue and where is it
You control the stove by controlling the air coming into it. I don't know that particular stove but there is a lever somewhere to do that
The flue is part of the insert. Usually a lever at the top. That is why they don't need the chimney flue anymore.
Im new to fireplaces and we bought a house that has an old fashion fire place Not too sure which fire place insert would be best for max heat but also safety ..... I want the best of both worlds 😂
What Jotul model # is that stove?
looks like the c550 rockland
I need this done
about how much would this cost
Just the flex pipe is $1000 dollars
I literally just got a quote yesterday and it was $7,658 dollars
I just had this done today. Had the wood stove already as the previous owner left it and did not install it. Retail for that is $2200 though. Install of liner was $2500.
Got two quotes for 7200 and 8k
how much does thay cost installed
There are way to many variables to give a price
no block off plate?
Yeah a blockoff plate makes the performance much better
@@benholler1389 Agree, that unit will be a poor performer without the blockoff plate.
Did I miss the part where they hook the gas up or is it magic?
They removed a gas insert, they're installing a woodstove insert.
I know the number one thing I want to do when designing a fireplace is to run a gas line right through it, because...yeah.
That is a gas burner. Some fireplaces have supplementary gas burners and they produce an awesome fire.
A lot of fireplaces from 60s through 90s used "Gas Log Sets".
They had ceramic logs that would glow, but were so energy inefficient that the EPA wouldn't even allow them to be rated as a heat source. To make the gas burn orange, to look like a wood fire, the gas has to burn horribly.
A decent wood burning insert should be about 70% efficient and produce about 50 to 80 K BTU.
What you saw was a gas log lighter, a piece of black iron with multiple orofices along its length that leads to a valve adjacent to the firebox. It was not used as a source of heat, but rather in lieu of kindling, as a means to reduce the effort to start the fire. Once the fire was underway, the gas would be turned off. They're completely safe, but as someone who grew up in a house with these log lighters (in both our fireplaces) they were seldom used, as they proved to be less effective at establishing a fire than the traditional methods.
Can you burn anthracite in it?
No it is a wood stove
Umm I think you forgot to seal up the chimney space and put furnace cement on the liner fitting.
So in that area wood is still cheaper than gas? Up here if you can find the wood, it's cheaper than gas.
The damper is now completely open with massive amounts of warm air escaping through the chimney.
So ur can’t run on regular chimney it was build?
Why are they not using the fireplace as it was built for? Why put in an insert?
Thanks. That makes sense.
Found Better Quality Fireplace timelapse check (copy) video link*/watch?v=RV2w8lXXuFs*
Created Superior Quality Fireplace video, copy video link */watch?v=RV2w8lXXuFs*
the insert is more efficient
Fireplace have some benefits. The smell is great and it heats the materials which creates radiant heat. However, it draws the air from the house, making other rooms cooler. Fireplaces are good for one room cabin. And insert has two hoses and intake that it pulls from outside and exhaust that goes back up the chimney.
What works and works excellent is? Cast Iron stoves The fireplace is one of the MOST USELESS PITS THERE ARE. But i have to use my fireplace. What i did. THAT SAVE A BUNCH OF MONEY WAS. Got some flue pipe and made a manifold around the damper. for the Fire to heat up this SS pipe and push air threw the pipe to the outlet on front out into the room. This is cheaper and better than a insert. I increased my heat outlet up to 25% more efficient
That looks like galvanized pipe fittings which produce zinc fumes and rust when wood is burned.
to heat the house you need a large fire lots of big wood
I’m moving soon and my new house has a fireplace!! I probably won’t use it tho lol
? no outside fresh air inlet to firebox
why re vent it. can't you just run a 5' pipe up the existing chimney?
No. Because the chimney itself must be 'part of' the origin of the fire. If u only go up 5' or howEVER many feet.. If it's not 'air tight' so to speak.. The smoke will come 'back into' the house. (The chimney actually draws the smoke UP like a natural vacuum) 😎🚬
So to summarize: the chimney ORIGINATES at the fire & ends at a point OUTSIDE.
The major issue with brick chimneys is that they leak combustion gasses back into your house through the bricks.
The liner is the safety fix for that.
You could also have your chimney relined with mortar or clay pipe, but it would cost more than the liner.
It is actually, a light unit. Compare with Buck Stove.
This cant be real. No soot got into the guys eyes while using the plasma torch. No soot on anyones clothes, no cut bloody fingers from the sharp edges. Hmmmm
Missed that part 😅
chimney = se-|rom-bong
ki-lang = mill
who puts a electrical power socket at the back of a wood burner pair of cowboys
Someone who ignores code.
Perfectly fine
Most of the time you see some really dumb installations on RUclips. This one is top notch. Excellent product and good execution. A few points. These stoves are heavy. The demo of the damper and brick was done ok but if you rent the demo hammer ( you will need one on some of the harder brick jobs ) and remember to be careful on the roof. Ventilation of
the fireplace is critical. You don’t want to dust your house. A small box fan or a cheap blower fan will work on top of the chimney flue.
A step ladder is better to slowly lower the liner in. Make sure you have gloves and goggles.
As a rule I’d recommend hiring a professional chimney inspector to verify that your fireplace and chimney are properly constructed. Consult your Local city or county Inspector.
Contact your insurance company to clarify your coverage if you install it.
Best Wishes
Lol FYI everyone!!! You can’t destroy a chimney to install a wood insert... it still needs to be structurally sound...
It is structurally sound! The back of the firebox has no structural load to keep the chimney standing. All they needed to do if they wanted was put some insulation or backfill in the hollow space behind the back wall of the firebox, if it’s a exterior chimney.
I want to see you lift a 500 pound insert into the chimney.
all of that heat going up the thin tube instead of heating that nice mass of brick- which would hold a lot of heat to keep your home warm... why?
It's better because the concentrated heat in the tube burns up soot far more effectively leaving the pipe cleaner and reducing overall emissions.
You make up for it by sealing the insert against the fireplace so you arent losing as much heated house air through the flue while it is burning.
When you use the insert blower fan to pull air around the insert, it circulates that clean warm air back into the room.
Half of any masonry chimney is outside anyway, so you weren't getting as much of a bargain as you thought.
That's a lot of work
please whatever you people do. Do not install one of these in a drywall box surrounding or touching the stove it does get hot.. Minimum clearance of any thing combustible would be 18in.
That plastic outlet and power cord both look combustible, though?
Its much much hotter higher up on the unit
That's a really small fireplace. Takes away the fun of wood burning fireplaces.
Kind of a hack job on the fireplace front stone work. I don't know that there would have been any other way to do it, but...
Why am I looking at wood stoves when it’s 94 degrees outside
Lol you don’t use a clay cap for a 6” flex... if there was a fire in this home relating to the fireplace insurance would not cover it because there were many things not done to code here
Everyone is mentioning the electrical outlet... He capped off a natural gas line in the left corner :/
Poor job guys!!! You did NOT seal damper and heat goes up to the top of chimney. Easy to trick homeowners , huh???
I saw that too. I’d put a plate in there too. We get below -20F. I could see that pulling warm air out of the house, without that plate in place.
@El_Dude You can use fiberglass insulation...it's in the installation instructions....insulated liner is a must for exterior chimneys...the guys that dont use this suck at what they do.
No you can't use fiberglass insulation it is not rated for the temperatures involved. And it doesn't block air movement either. Rock wool or ceramic wool with a sheet metal plate is the best solution
@El_Dude Thanks for the link, this is what I was looking for
flue not sealed! stove with massive air leakage.
Where, down at the damper? It’s sealed at the top with a top plate, collar and cap. The only reason to seal the damper/throat/smoke chamber would be if there was another flue inside the chimney with another appliance that could potentially be compromised and letting carbon monoxide inside the now sealed fireplace flue. There is no other flue being used in this chimney so no reason, except a cold space because of the exterior chimney cold masonry, but it really shouldn’t be a problem because the tile is still in place.
Why put the stove into the fireplace? Leave
It out on the hearth. Lose less heat
i dont trust those tin drier vent chimney adapters. im sure they are ok.
i have double wall going into triple wall and still worry about melting my stack.
caveman has imprinted memories that are hard to shake.
That is not dryer vent. Those are stainless components designed and tested specifically for this application