Fallacy of False Equivalence
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- Опубликовано: 11 фев 2018
- Here is a link to the whole playlist. goo.gl/nSZC85
I still keep seeing the same old already-refuted all over social media. What's it take to make these arguments die? I'm tired of repeating myself. So I'm making a series of short videos dealing with the PRATTs that we always see repeated every week from every creationist out there.
My sister, who is a teacher here in Norway, told me that it was not yet settled if evolution or ID was true. Then she thought I was exaggerating when I told her it was about as settled as heliocentrism vs geocentrism.
For somebody living in Norway, your sister must be a special one
In Norway? 😳 that's surprising considering our public perception here in the US of the Scandinavian countries being more sensible.
@@whatabouttheearth It's miles better than the US, but communities of religious troglodytes pop up everywhere like weeds and hide behind the ridiculous notion that we have to respect religious ideas. My sister just got too involved with such a church. She's not a science teacher and science has never been her interest, so she was easily fooled when authority figures she trusted told her again and again that the science wasn't settled. She's better now, thankfully, but still a christian. I have no interest in sports, so if all my friends told me repeated misinformation about sports to the degree that creationism pumps out, I could also easily be fooled and not even think to go check the facts for myself. Never consider yourself infallible. My sister isn't dumb. She's human. And unfortunately, Norwegians are as human as Americans. We are not immune to lies.
Hope she does not turn flat earther!
@@LamirLakantry tell her that yea, Ymir remains created the world perfectly
Falsification and peer review VS "We have this book"
chrisose
Not only that, but the book was written by bronze aged superstitious people that thought the earth was flat, somehow I don’t think I would put much trust in that source.
Yep. Peer review isn't perfect, but it's a damn sight better than nothing.
Nothing is perfect but peer review obviously works pretty well because those spewing woo-woo avoid it like the plague. They don't even use the process within their own circles because it would force them to actually think about the bullshit they push.
I told an Ethiopian dude I worked with that his King James Bible was just words written and rewritten countless times by man. He stopped talking to me altogether.
@@thoughtlesskills Deep down inside he must have known you are right
This morning, I fell into a RUclips rabbit hole of logical fallacies. On my trip down, I stubble onto this guy, using religion in his examples...
Best. Day. Ever.
The circular argument is interesting too.
I love this guy! He looks like he would easily be at home on a stage with a guitar hanging off his shoulders laying down some killer riffs...or in a classroom teaching. So articulate, well spoken and speaks like a boss. Awesome.
These are people that will look you right in the face and tell you that atheism is a religion and Christianity is not one, without blinking. How can you deal with denial on that scale?
I call them a liar & a forked tongue. And ask them if they were by any chance the snake. I'm afraid, I have no patience with liars. My mother was one. The only reason I put up with her at all, was because I loved my dad. And wouldn't leave him alone with that crone from hell.
Well, that's one way of dealing with it. I think we need both kind of atheists. The kind that won't suffer fools and the more patient kind.
I've heard of people saying atheism is a religion, I have never heard anyone claim Christianity is not a religion. people actually do that?
Atheism can't be a religion because religion requires a god or gods. But atheism is a belief and there is no more scientific evidence to back up atheism than there is for any of the world's religions and just because something can be taken from the Bible or Koran and be proven impossible or scientifically wrong doesn't change that.
@Sakke00 then how would they define religion? o_O a religion is the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. a relationship with jesus is the very definition of religion
You can tell by the cadence in his voice that he has worked tirelessly to break it all down to make it as palatable as possible for the general public... I wish I could commit this entire video to memory lol
AronRa master of the intellectual dropkick.
micronoid Aron, the godkiller!!🤗
That's a good way to put it actually. Aron does things a little bit differently than other skeptics, debaters, critics. Instead of being socratic, asking probing question designed to seek out problems with a contention, he'll instead find out if it's wrong and tell you it's wrong and why.
For example, if someone brings up faith to Matt Dillahunty, the first question will be "Okay what's your definition of faith? How are you using that word?". Then he can go on to see if that definition has any value in determining the truth. AronRa actually has a list of theologians who all define faith in this one particular way. "That's not what it means according to ... For centuries every religious thinker has defined faith this way.."
I'm not saying one way is better. But I find it interesting how he does things.
@@PaulTheSkeptic
I find his approach better because it exposes the problem quicker, leaves no room for apologists to make excuses as it instantly meet the burden of proof and, due to its aggressive character, is more convincing. New age christians are more passive and like to think of themselves as thoughtful and reasonable so Matt's approach might work there but against hardcore fundamentalists, christian or especially muslims, Aron takes the upper hand in the conversation and leads his way to demonstrable truth.
@@Gxlto Well, It takes all kinds. But he does have a way of cutting through the bullshit. Which isn't easy given the sheer amounts... Lol. And it sure is fun to watch.
Honestly, I think his approach is perfect when talking evolution. Science and facts. But there is something satisfying about how Matt does it too. When he finally gets to that point, after much ado, when he holds their feet to the fire and they're desperately searching for some way out...
@@PaulTheSkeptic
True, although I think this approach has tired Matt out over the years making more and more aggressive lately which has made his show less entertaining. Unless Matt is debating apologists (which even in that case he rarely doesn't) he usually just takes on the P.R.A.T.T. list through the socratic method to get the proponent to admit important things. I find it personally more useful to watch Aron who wastes no time and succinctly explains the argument, the fallacy and the solution.
Aron ra I just wanted to let you know that thanks to several of the arguments you’ve taught me as well as my own tweaks to them I actually had an argument with a theist just yesterday where I literally got them to admit that I shouldn’t assert facts that go against their beliefs because they just WANT to believe and me doing that is hurting their feelings and I managed to Whittle the conversation down to where I just straight up asked him should I not assert facts and he replied YES. and needless to say this is where I ended the conversation and I wanted to thank you for giving me the arguments and knowledge necessary to Expose such blatant dishonesty. and I also see what you were talking about when you say that it is just make believe and playing pretend so thank you for that and keep up the good work👍
Will Parkinson Good job. I am sure you were just shaking your head at the foolishness afterwards.
👏👍 Congratulations! It takes nerve to go into an argument with a dipshit. I admire your courage. Have a drink on me! 🍺
Will Parkinson
I debated a Christian theist for about 2 weeks on messenger to the point he threatened me with his fictional hell .
I given him about 10 contradiction found in the Bible , i bring up a Jephthah daughter point to atleast try to question the Bible - which he believe that the story is about Jephthah daughter " giving her virginity up to god " ...😐 and even brought up on what he think who is the devil ( Christians do not agree on this ) ; he believe Satan in the ruler of hell when other denominations and his holy book say otherwise .
As a bonus i link him a video by 43 valley or alley explaining how satan the accuser which can be any angel became Satan the devil ...in other words it was a cheap forgery that was born from ignorance of their own " holy book " .
😂😂😂.
Anyway he say I'll regret my atheism when I stand in front of the lord and before I can reply - he block me .
The End .
fun fact I live with Muslim and we do get in few arguments over religions (don't get me wrong he's good fella but wen it comes to religion ha) it was funny wen he told me these words "science lies" what did I do ? pull out phone from pocket and sed if science is a lie then this thing will not work :) he never talks to me in regard to religion again
TheSoap1992
Did you tell him it doesn't matter if they do - it was still proven to be a scientific fact when it was verified ...what knowledge does his book and God possess or proven to be facts ( ask in a rhetorical way ) ?
If "alternative science" worked, it would just be called science
Thank you Aron and all the RUclips creators who opened my eyes. I used to believe that my fundamentalist Christian religion had the truth. It was all of you showing us the way, that helped people like me escape from superstition and ignorance. Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work Aron. Love the way you bring not only logic but enthusiasm too.
AronRa, your words are like audible Pringles, lol! Love this, thanks for what you do.
You are on fire lately Aron. Great stuff.
MrScottev He must have had a V8 :-)
That's because he's burning in hell! Repent!
lol jk
If it were real then you wouldn't need faith!
Name one that was proven true.
abelcainsbrother So do you believe everything came from water like the Bible says (II Peter 3:5) or do you except Science that demonstrated everything originated from hydrogen gas?
I don't comment on many threads and don't want to start a fight or anything, but Atheism isn't about being right. It just says that there is no proof that God exists nor that the Bible is true. We can analyse the Bible...but we can also read the other 4,200 religion books: Quran and Hidaya (Muslim for 4 years), Bible (Christian for 4 years), Catholic Apocrypha (Catholic for 10 years in school), Bhagavad Gita (Good read), Tipitaka, Vedas 1 through 4, Book of Mormon, Book of the Dead, etc.
Could God exist? Maybe. Is there evidence? No
Not being able to explain something is not proof of God.
Why isn't an explainable event in India proof of Lord Ganaisha? Maybe the Cat that didn't walk on the Quran (Look it up haha) is proof of Muhammad's prophet...ness.
A lot of books have a lot of old stories and prophecies.
No, dear, I go to the bible that Holy Trinity made me buy. SEVEN whole bucks for a badly mimeographed copy, that's 7 loaves of bread! I read that sucker. And I used it to torture the nuns. I got Sister Mary-Magdalene to throw her teeth at me. You can't top that!
Just because you refuse to read the bible is no excuse. It's your fucking bible, moron. Stop pretending it's the atheist bible. It's YOURs. If you deny it, you're in big trouble with the big guy. And I also use the Bible study guide, it has several languages & several versions. Because you jokers can't make up your fucking minds.
Islam says the same thing about Christianity. They make fun of each other. Atheism says that there is no evidence of God existing. God may exist, but until we see him, there's no point of believing in him, just because a book says some stories. The Bible is no different than the other religion books. There is no evidence that God DOESN'T exist, nor is there that he DOES exist. I choose to live a life full of helping others, having self worth, treating people equally, and striving for a better world. Not living in fear of the Bible being true, and then going to Hell because instead of choosing Jesus, I chose Krishna, Osiris, or another deity.
“But it’s only a theory”, derp burp. Well done AronRa.
Steven Baumann how about the “well you too have faith that god doesnt exist.”
Steven Baumann "You can't prove Music, it's only a theory!" AronRa at 15.
Emperor Lars XVIII I personally is am indifferent to whether any god exists. Faith requires belief without evidence. Therefore I do not have faith in science, since science is evidence based.
"Remenber guys It's just a theory.
A THEORY BASED ON FACTS AND EVIDENCE . And cut ".
-matpat , one day hopefully
The truth usually wins and that was a great offering of truth. The truth doesn't hide and omit facts. Very good video!
Aaron is the coolest guy in the earth 😁
Very nearly
It's Aron.
@Toasted Cheeseburger 🖕
I’ve been watching Aron for about five years now. These are my favorite type of videos. Thanks Aron.
Your reasoning Aron, like the graphics in the background, was a thing of beauty.
Eloquent and informative....thanks so much for what you do!!!!
A Christian's response to this would be something like "so you believe that we are just some lowly chemical processes? That's ridiculous! How could you think that!"
Basically showing how their pathetic lives won't have a purpose unless an imaginary authoritative figure tells them what to do.
M)rtanius: what gets to me is, I waited forty years for "god" to tell me what to do...and he never said a thing.
I'm afraid, after reading the bible at 9, I threw that sucker under the bus. And cackled insanely.
Good point. Should be the subject of a future episode.
I'm more often convinced that Christianity creates a sort Stockholm syndrome amongst its believers. A sort of, "I can't live without this" mentality. Creating consequences that one cannot question, have an honest thought about, or a defense against.
Would be interesting! Believers can't get over the fact that there is no such thing as a "spiritual world", "astral plane", "heaven", etc..., that our "material" world is the only world that exists, and that our mind is just a product of our brain.
And they're absolutely TERRIFIED of thinking that when we die, our mind simply disappears, and doesn't go to any spirit realm, heaven or other happy land.
Sorry, I missed what you said, because the background video is so beautiful! 8|
Gonna have to re-watch...
_woooo... fractals..._ (same happened to me, btw)
Yeah, 3D-fractals, and nicely rendered... mesmerizing. :)
I just love this video. I've watched it dozens of times. "Inappropriately polite" is a lovely choice of words and you can be sure I have recycled it.
Thanks Mr Aron Ra for all of the work you do on a local, national, international level..
Outstanding series, Aron! Keep them coming!
Brilliant yet again mate.
Glad I woke up to this! Love your videos Aron, I've rewatched many of them many times.
_I've searched my conscience, and I can't for the life of me find any justification for this, and I simply cannot accept that there are on every story two equal and logical sides to an argument._
-- Edward R. Murrow
I've loved Murrow's quote since I first read it, even as I had to resist the urge to gag the second I first heard Kellyanne Conway utter the phrase, "alternative facts." Thanks for rocking the FACTS, Aron!
Yeah, there are not always two sides, and often there are far more than two perspectives.
This is precisely the reason I absolutely hate debates
another series from AronRa...bonus! I love all of these series you do, so interesting, informative and entertaining...I often feel like I have learned so much without having to do any work...keep keeping us smart...and thanks
Fuck, I love videos like these. Beautiful reminder that humanity still has some people left that can rationally interpret information.
Yeah, they're called creationists
@@kevinjones8407 0/10 troll attempt. Unless you were being serious, then 0/10 reality concordance.
@@AlbertaGeek False. If you're not a creationist you're either uneducated or stubborn to the truth. So which is it?
@@kevinjones8407 Dude, that's some IMAX-level projection. Also, way to nail the False Dichotomy fallacy. Trust a creationist to be unable to make a well-reasoned, logical argument. Just more evidence that they can't think clearly, which of course speaks to their being creationists.
@@AlbertaGeek lol cringey atheist. Why am I not surprised. What, in your opinion, do you think there was to argue from your first reply? Nothing, and now I "can't think clearly"? And you people wonder why those in the scientific community don't take you seriously😂😂😂
Funny enough I had an Ark Encounter ad before this video. Any who, I enjoy how watching you makes me have to think and reflect on what I believe.
Love the fractal imagery in the background. Great appeals to reason and logic. Your videos rule Aron.
Great video as always.
what i find interesting is that the same points made here, to explain the false equivalence falacy, can also be applied to other realms such as politics, that an argument can be made that people treat their affiliation to a particular political party/movement as if it is a religion.
Politics can be indefensibly irrational.
Great video, AronRa. I love your explanations, they are so precise and truthful.
Love you work, Aron. 💕💜
We need more videos like this. This is why I love this channel. You were absolutely right that former Christians are the most vocal anti-thiest. I use to be a fundamental independent baptist.
Ferrari King Agreed throughout. It's pretty much across the board that a convert to a given religion is more likely than not to be more of a fundamentalist than those brought up in it. The same works for those who've left one. My thought is that in both cases, there is lingering anger (conscious or not) with the previous belief system for "wasting" the convert's life until that time. I am not a sociologist or any other sort of person who looks into this academically, but it makes sense to me.
As usual Aron Ra, it's a great point out very succinctly. I'm jealous. One day I won't get so sidetracked!
I think you"'ll find that former Muslims and Jews - former ANY fairy tale believers - are just as vocal as former Christians. Waking up from any kind of religious indoctrination causes similar feelings of anger and strong anti-theist feelings and the desire to rescue others who were religiously indoctrinated and bring them back to reality.
Neptune: I see what you did there with your avatar...so what are you now? No agenda, just wondering.
Neptune: thank you! Me, too. Born atheist, indoctrinated in the cradle, freed by my own efforts after four decades, clarified over the next decades by people like AronRa, Hitchens, Harris, Thomas Paine, and many others. .
i also used to be an independent baptist. Mine was only on paper though, as i wished to marry an independent baptist who was in the U.S. Air Force. At that time, (1971), the Air Force would approve his marriage application only if i belonged to the same religion and denomination. Ah, those were the "good old days."
Great series, AronRa!
It's awesome when such a cool, good looking man starts talking and you are blown away by his intelligence and eloquence! Thank you so much for another great video! 😙 Xoxo, Paula 😄😄
We done, as usual Ra, and i like the subtle green screen reveal at the end to make your point. well done
The most frustrating, devastating and exhausting feeling you may "enjoy" is listening to illiterate person trying to reason with you, being against the reason itself at the same time and even unaware (usually) for that fact... as if you were listening patiently to someone's fake singing.
You sound like a very close minded person.
Yes, I am. If relying on reason, evidence and logic is narrow-mindedness, so be it. Common sense has its place in our live, fantasy is so funny and entertaining too, but to confuse them with reality - it is plainly delusional.
I'm supposed to open my mind to what - to the baseless claims of the religion? If it is so - to which one and why? I think I have the right to ask these questions whenever somebody is trying to persuade me in truthfulness of his belief on matters so vital and important to our being and very existence.
Yes, it is very painful to listen to obviously delusional people, how they're talking, talking, talking and saying exactly nothing... and in your mind lasts for a very long time the bitter taste of their infuriating stupidity.
Well, at least I got you to admit it. 🤪 Now look around at everything in the room where you are at. Can't the origin of everything you see be traced backed to a fantasy in someone's mind?
Thank you for acknowledging my admission. So, is it possible that I live in someone else's dream, or mind? It is easy to rearrange the environment around you and facts about it - true or not - in such manner that no mater how fantastic and detached to the reality (meaning that version perceived by the subject), it will sound convincing to every of its habitants.
So, what? There is only one way to distinguish between reality and fantasy - the scientific method. You actually have to do something to assure yourself and everybody else that your statements about the reality are right. You have to probe and explore it. Eventually if your mumblings are concordant with the experiment, they are... "magically" transformed in theory.
This is all we got. We are not just sitting here and there, comfortably, and spewing one nonsense after another in the hope that one of them might be right.
In conclusion, I strongly recommend you to read the short story "Reason"(1941) by Isaac Asimov (from the cycle I, Robot). It is all about what we are talking here. I think it is hilarious... and if you think that too, ask yourself why.
You misinterpreted my question. If you are sitting in a room, every physical object you see started it's long journey to its present state as an idea in someone's mind. I have zero qualms about labeling that idea as a fantasy - a la, gee, I wish someone would invent a left handed chair. Can science replicate the Shroud of Turin or animals falling from the sky? Hypothetically, let's say science proves the existence of God in 2020. Would you accept the findings? An honest answer would be appreciated. Thanks for the reading recommendation. I have such a long reading list today that I'm afraid I won't get to it for awhile.
I noticed a minor point, you seem to be more anti-theism rather than anti-theist. I've only ever heard you speak against the harms the beliefs cause and not the believers.
Having said that, your videos have given me many hours of entertainment and enjoyment. Especially those videos on phylogeny and our animal ancestry. Sincerely, thanks!! Keep up the good work!
anti-theism is the view of being an anti-theist. that's how words work.
Fighting the actual persons is a lost cause; they are here today, gone tomorrow. Its the system that perpetuates itself for no good reason that needs to be opposed.
Agree with what punchee said. Theistic beliefs are like parasitic memes. Theists themselves are the unlucky hosts, who in most cases were exposed to those memes before they were old enough to have a chance to develop critical thinking.
Love all your videos. Keep up the amazing work!
The PRATT list is awesome Aron. Please continue to expand it.
Lots of tools in Aron's toolbelt!
Love your videos man!
Wonderful video, Aron! Thanks for this - you made some fabulous points.
A brilliant, brilliant little chat by Aron.
I too yearn for the the day when humanity will stop having to waste its precious time and resources on debating this ridiculous belief in the supernatural. Be of a happy happy heart Aron Ra for the battle you fight is the good fight. Remember it takes ten good deeds to undo one bad deed and so the battle rages on with mighty warriors such as you at the front lines. Soldier on.
We need more science literacy. To get that we need more education. To get that we need more control in government. To get that we need to kick Trump and his ilk out of Washington D.C. and other places around the country. To do that we need everyone who wants these things to fucking VOTE. No taking even a single election off. Vote and make yourself heard...or actually run for office.
I am rapidly losing 'faith' that 'we' will win this debate as long the creationists are prepared to be dishonest, and lets face it, there is no such thing as an honest creationist.
The reason for my increasing despair arose whilst watching Paulogia's latest Ham and Eggs video. All the creationists have to do is say, "This was debunked," or "All life evolved from a rock!?" or "Dinosaurs and birds are not related [while showing a picture of any dinosaur that 'obviously' shares no traits with birds, Diplodocus for example].' To counter this 'we' have to present a sometimes complicated scientific explanation as to why what they are saying is untrue - for example, to debunk the creationist's nonsense claim that for evolution to be true all life on Earth that has ever been evolved from a rock, requires explaining: that evolution and abiogenesis are not the same; even if a god did magic the first lifeform into being that this wouldn't disprove evolution; the current hypotheses on how the life may have got started; etc; etc; etc. Anyone who is already a creationist is going to believe the creationist's story anyway, and anyone who is unsure will probably go with the simple explanation that seems to make 'commonsense'.
Apologies if I messed up some of the science in my post, I don't pretend to understand it all...
As AronRa says, "Science doesn't know everything. Religion doesn't know anything."
Mark, why? And why is it a ridiculous belief?
Bring me a talking snake and then I will consider creationism.
Mark Dichter
A talking snake is not enough.
When a talking fucking snake is not enough to convince you, then you know that what your opponent is trying to make you belive is beyond absurd.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. A talking snake shouldn't even make you consider creationism, because if you did you'd suddenly have to consider Narnia or any other fairy tale with talking animals to have truth value as a whole, which is nonsense.
All there would be would be a talking snake, which by itself is not evidence for Bible stories being true. You'd be the one making insufficient causation claims by considering it to have come from that exact origin.
a talking snake would be an evidence of talking snakes, nothing more, nothing less
It would validate a bible story which is as far fetched as any other fairy tale since snakes don't have vocal chords or a large enough brain.
Mark Dichter It wouldn't validate anything other than a talking snake existing. There would be no evidence of Adam and Eve, angels, paradise or god. The correlation of a talking snake to some story does not validate the story. It wouldn't even validate the talking snake in the story as being necessarily an event in reality, because it's a story, not an actual event.
You're too easily convinced.
Love the short video format. Keep it up! 👍
The man is back
One year ago, I questioned "Do I really believe all of the animals of the world got onto a boat?" The agnostic train started last January. I've been atheist for about two months now. :-).
Congratulations. ;) Keep thinking!
Be proud you are not brainwashed anymore hold your head high.
My DE-conversion was much quicker. After realizing that the creation and flood narratives could be debunked with even a half-baked understanding of cosmology, paleontology, and other relevant fields, etc, I came to the abrupt realization that because the scientists can actually demonstrate what they claim (when one takes the time to learn HOW they know what they claim to know), either the Biblical narratives are incorrect through some human error, or God is deliberately lying and/or fabricating evidence to indicate the opposite of what he claims. This is NO behavior for any being who claims to be "the Truth" with a capital "T."
I was just getting into the scientific methodology at that time after binge-listening to Niel deGrasse Tyson's "StarTalk" podcast. After being raised with, "Scientists claim that the Earth is millions of years old, but they don't REALLY know that..." and the like, I finally bothered to inquire HOW they know what they claim to know, starting with redshift, the Cosmic Ladder (how distances are measured in space), and the Cosmic Microwave Background that I'd been hearing about. Because those combined with knowing the speed of light, you can get a pretty good gauge for the actual age of the universe. Even without leaving our own galaxy and encountering cosmic expansion, just using the most basic method, triangulation, can take you far beyond anything supported by the Bible. Science claims that the universe is 13.8 billion years old, +/- about 50 million, and the Bible's chronologies will get you to between 6,000-10,000 years old, and as Eddie Izzard so eloquently understated the fact of the matter, "One of these is NOT correct."
And once I figured out that the universe was billions of years old, and the Earth itself is about 4.6 billion, there was suddenly time for everything else I thought impossible, such as tectonic activity shifting the continents around, and biological evolution in slow incremental steps, slowly improving on whatever came before. Everything started clicking into place.
Even the day/age "theory" falls apart when one takes a look at the creationist timeline and order of events when contrasted to cosmology and the geologic column, etc. With that, my belief in a young earth collapsed over night, and all semblance of "faith" within a couple weeks at best. The claims of the Bible are pretty incredible, and with nothing material to back them up. If one part of an infallible compilation could be shown false, then the whole thing must be scrutinized. Turns out that without "faith," there is no valid reason to believe ANY of it.
I realized at the same time, that what I was previously told wasn't true. That while people "choose" to believe in Christ (while claiming that Christ chooses them, and all the contradictions that might imply), one does NOT choose to become an atheist. *You just realize that you ARE one.* Within two days of realizing that the Biblical Creation narrative was demonstrably false, I realized that I WAS an atheist; that I didn't believe, no matter how I might have wanted to hedge my bets and dance around the term.
If that seems too fast for you, I should probably also mention that I'm in the autistic spectrum. Because I have difficulty forming emotional attachments, once I find out that an idea is demonstrably wrong, I drop it like yesterday's newspaper. Autism can have it's advantages.
Coincidentally, this mindset jives quite well with the scientific method, and have found it to be the ONLY reliable method of attaining knowledge. Were I not raised in a Christian setting, I likely wouldn't have believed it to begin with, and while "science" ranks at least third on the common list of reason why people abandoned their faith, I count myself as an exception to that. For me it was at the top.
You don't even need to be a scientist, but it is CRITICAL to know and be able to apply the scientific method, especially for somebody coming out of faith to avoid being fooled AGAIN. It's best described, I think, by Carl Sagan.
"[Science... ] It's one sacred truth, is that *there ARE no sacred truths;* all assumptions must be critically examined; arguments from authority are worthless. *Any idea that is inconsistent with the facts, no matter how fond of it we are, must be discarded or revised.*
Science is not perfect. It can be misused. It's only a tool. But it's the best tool we have. Self-correcting; ever changing; *applicable to everything.* "
I grew up Catholic (10 years), was non-denominational Christian (4 years), Church of Christ (1 year), Muslim (4 years), and just left Islam about 5 months ago or so. Agnostic was just the slide into becoming Atheist. I looked for evidence and never found it. I thought:
-"Do I really believe that Muhammad got on a horse and flew to Heaven?"
I was going to give other examples, but I will paste a comment I made a few weeks ago, at the ending. For me, it was a gradual process of being afraid to go to Hell, and feeling disconnected from others. There was no reason to believe or even care what the Bible says. Why the Bible and not the Quran? The Book of Mormon? The Bagavad Gita (Hindu text)? The Vedas? Tipitaka? etc.
Answer: "Jesus rose from the dead."
So did Osiris.
But, I can talk forever about any of this. The main point was to not stop thinking, and looking outside of the box. No matter the religion, I never found evidence. Jesus? Shiva? Krisha? Xenu? Moses? Arjuna? ...A lot of old books have a story. :-)
Here is my old comment:-)
--
I was Catholic for 10 years, back and forth from Non-denominational Christianity and Church of Christ for 4 years, and got baptized...took my Shahada and was Muslim for 4 years, became agnostic when I first questioned Noah's Ark back in January 2017. I was still calling myself Muslim until around October 2017. I finally stopped lying to myself a few weeks ago and am an Atheist. "Atheist:" It's not a bad word.
Do I really believe all of the animals of the world got onto a boat?
Do I really believe Muhammad got on a horse and flew to Heaven?
Do I really believe women are worth half as much as men?
I haven't even touched the surface, but this is the stuff you HAVE to believe or else, you question God...which sends you to Hell. I don't miss feeling trapped and feeling like a dirty rag that has to clean up someone else sins. Or a slave to Allah that can easily be replaced...and who will ignore my prayer (salat) if I have a dog in my house, or a picture of my Grampa on the wall (research it, hahaah!). :-)
I always wondered how one can hop from one "faith" to another. I know that it happens, but I could never wrap my head around it, so you might have to explain that one.
Awrsome piece...wish I could feed this subliminaly to some coworkers who re fundalmwntalust faith healer sect of xtianitu...As I hack the taste out of my mouth...
Dr. Strange vibes from the background ! Great vid! 👍
Love the Fractals! And the logic!!!
What did you use to create the background graphics? BoXplorer?
Good morning,
Could you please provide reference to the first item on the PRATT list?
Thanks!
Here is a link to the whole playlist. goo.gl/nSZC85
Thanks, AronRa, finally a link that my computer will give me a hand for! I love this series!
The imagery turned a fire hose of information into a meditation. Very nice.
One more amazing video! Keep it up Aron!
Aron Ra, those were the best evidences I've ever seen.
Sorry I had to, 'evidences' is such a stupid word 😂😂😂 I wish creationists would stop saying 'evidences'.
That's to let you know how stupid they are.
Marilyn Newman I know, but like.. I feel like they know better
I don't know, maybe they hit their heads against a brick wall once too often. I did it once, I broke the wall. Holy Trinity took 60 years to fix that hole. I would drive by & look at my hole, then about 2 years ago, I looked & they finally fixed it. I'll never forget that game of Red Rover. Even with the hole gone.
Marilyn Newman LOL
No no no! Encourage them to say things you can mock them for.
This is how the Bible talks about faith:
Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." - John 20:29
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. - Heb 11:1
"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." and it's still believing the nonsense that you want to believe because you've been told to believe it. It still does not make it true.
I hope you both have taken my point that these verses show that the creationists are being disingenuous with how they characterize faith.
Faith, as you defined it, is an emotion. Having confident in and having hope in in something does not make it true. (Actually, it is peculiar how one can supposedly to have confidence in and have hope for the same thing.)
Emotional Conviction does not equate to Knowledgable Truth.
Great video, I love your videos. I learn so much knowledge.
Your background graphic is wonderful!
In my series I have simply allowed creationists the luxury of using the term, "evolutionism" to mean "the scientific consensus" while allowing the term "evolutionists" to mean "those who accept the scientific consensus".
I think those two terms as I defined them, both, acknowledge that everything changes over time, and are easier to say than "scientific consensusism" or "scientific consensusists".
sounds like it might be a good idea to cheek you out then ,never bad to have one more chanel of critical empirical material analyze.
I would appreciate that, but please don't assume I was commenting out of self-promotion.
of course.
I definitely recommend Tony's channel. Lots of great vids broken down into specific topics, all about 10 minutes long each.
Tony's channel is one of my favorites. I love that he cites his research.
First :) Thanks for pointing out the double standard and goal-post shifting with definitions Aron.
You are my mentor!
The background had me mesmerized.
I’d be nice if you had some power in Congress. They need logic and reasoning instead of being just plain ignorant and screwing this world over.
Happy Darwin Day Aron!
Professor Quotation Damn, I forgot to wear my Darwin t-shirt.
Just read the Voyage of the Beagle on-line or Origin of Species. And we'll forgive you, unbeliever. LOL
Clear, concise, and eloquent, as usual.
Aron Ra, you will live in history for your fantastic videos that teach young and old, like me. Thankyou, you give hope! On this video, I loved how Tim Minchin in Storm, summed it up. Science adjusts it's views, according to what's observed, faith is the denial of science so that beliefs may be preserved! Love and Peace
Knowledge empowers humans.
religion cages and chakles minds to canibalice themselfs whens tarved of it.
also...love the background!
If creationists were smart they would realize they were always going to lose the war. And it is a war they started.
Coming out to my dad as an atheist, he immediately did an equivocation with the word faith when I criticized the idea of having said faith to believe in a god. As he would say, "You have faith that the chair you sit on won't collapse!" Notwithstanding the conflation of blind acceptance with a spectrum of uncertainty, that just pushed me even further away from coming back to Christianity, especially since "faith" was supposedly the number one support.
@AronRa - Thank you for this video and I would love to see more similar to this because I have been attempting to train myself in all the logical fallacies on the list. When I get to see these examples from you, it helps recognize them during debates. It is like Wikipedia comes to life.
Mike Wazowski: like the Encyclopedia Britannica comes to life, more like...
@Jillian Smith - or Cliff Notes: Fallacy List (they have one online)
I'm afraid you're wrong here Aron. Science and pseudoscience are indeed polar opposites. In science you come up with an idea and look for ways to disprove that idea. Failing that you present your idea to others (in science this is done through peer review) and invite them to disprove it. If everyone fails to disprove the idea you gain confidence that maybe it is not wrong. One thing you never actually do, scientifically speaking, is prove the idea to be correct.
Through this process (the scientific method) you consider ALL of the available evidence and not only disprove wrong ideas, you also disprove frauds.
Pseudoscience is the exact opposite. In pseudoscience you come up with an idea and look for evidence to prove your idea is write. Any evidence that does not prove your idea is ignored, especially the evidence that disproves that idea.
A classic example is Ken Ham's "Millions of animals buried in rock all over the world." While it might be true that a global might leave animals buried all over the Earth, it ignores how those animals were buried and how they are arranged in the geologic column. When you consider these facts, Ken's "theory" falls to pieces.
He said that science and pseudoscience were not opposites. They are. Polar opposites in fact. A polar opposites are the most extreme opposite you can possibly have.
It depends on how you define "faith"
In the religious context, yea, you could say faith is the opposite of facts, sort of.
Religious faith requires belief IN SPITE of contrary evidence. In such cases you chose to continue believing even when that thing is proved false. In this case you reject the facts in order to retain the faith.
AntiCitizenX Oh come now daddy, where'd your nitpicky side go? Isn't it fun to be a contrarian and poke holes in arguments?
I disagree. Pseudoscientists pretend to be scientific by misusing science terms and giving awful evidence. A polar opposite of science wouldn't give any evidence or use the trappings of science. Example: much of theology.
Patrick Hackett You're not correct. The definition I gave is not made up by me. It is the very definition of pseudoscience. All you have to do is look it up.
Love the background!
"... at this point, they can dip into the bucket for other lies...".
Nice.
Again, well done.
Fantastic video.
Great fractal back ground imaging.
My head just fuckin exploded!! Great video Aron.
I'm so grateful I was raised by a science believing family
Evidence always trumps belief. Keep up the good work.
BESTest backgrounds in this one!
Actually two models can potentially explain the same facts, however the most parsimonious model should be selected, in other words which model makes testable predictions about future data. (King Crocoduck did a video called "Is Science a Social Construct?", it's really good, especially since KC appears understand philosophy of science). So when it comes to evolution, it is the best model to explain biodiversity, where creationism isn't even a model.
Great video. The background 3D fractal is AMAZING - but also VERY distracting!
The advertising targeted at me for watching this was entertaining. Somebody was trying to sell me a course in “worship guitar”. 😂
He is an intellectual powerhouse.
"We all would" Mic drop!
Thank you for this video. Lately while I was watching your videos I started feeling the same. There's absolutely no equivalence between Evolution and Religion.
damn it!!! your videos get better and better
I became a christian because I believed a source that I trusted. Next, I saw changes happening in me (as I made different choices from the ones I had made before). Then I felt different. Those feelings were the "evidence" to me that god was real.
It took a long time of deep study to see it was all in my head and there was no real substance to support my faith.
So, when believers say they have "evidence", they're really just describing their feelings and the fact that they've concluded that because things are so complex there must have been a creator.
one thing is then they redefine the word evidence, but then they redefine the word truth, to mean Jesus i facepalm myself to a least a day in comatose condision.
Sometimes data can support two theories, and more data is needed, this is the only point I'd make, but scientists will always state this. great video
Love it!
Great video thought.. you are the logical messiah
Fractal patterns! Love it :D
"tides go in tides go on"
Perfect argument.