Get your kick and 808 bass in phase with this simple oscilloscope technique. Dial in the perfect punch… without any processing! Try or buy Cableguys plugins: www.cableguys....
For those who don't get it: opposite waveforms cancels each other (no sound) and equal waves gives an amplified waveform 🎉physic of waves. If interested read👉 constructive interference
@@IanSolanoalso 75% of the waves line up 😭 i only have 1 waves plug in left installed, don't even remember which one, i guess it's trans-x (which is also outdated af but does the job sometimes, but got replaced fast by the ridiculously simple "transient shaper" by kilohearts which is free btw, would recommend the free kilohearts plug ins to everyone too) The plug in industry always update the wrong ones, like NI with massive x which never got used by anybody, so they put the old OG massive back in the shop 😂 same goes with quadrafuzz or saturn, the OG ones were perfect 👌🏼😭 And then we have companys like waves selling EQs looking like windows 95 with 12db slopes only for the same price as kirchoff - while nova is free and the most DAWs have updated their EQs to habe a dynamic option and mid/side processing like studio one or cubase
Until the 808 changes pitch! Solution: either pitch the kick higher than the highest note of the 808 or use sidechain ! Or manually change phase for each clash and see the oscilloscope!
I adjust every note manually if the Kick and 808 plays at the same time, its always a little bit time and nerve consuming but at the end if Kick and 808 play toghether they support each other and the Kick dont loose punch.
Never knew this, but I had knowledge about the phase and out of phase thing . This is awesome man. Can't we change the start time of the kick or bass to adjust the phase to perform the same???
"Can't we change the start time of the kick or bass to adjust the phase to perform the same???" Yes. Reminded me of some advice from some producers: If you ever need to do this by ear, which can if it's visually not really working, try to adjust the phase until it sounds the worst, and then reverse the polarity.
Like many thing in music, if it sounds good, that’s all that matters. The old school engineers may have their own way of doing it. But if you like it, it’s probably fine.
You'll likely lose low end doing this because there will be a space of silence between the kick and sub, kick sub relation is something more people should think about imo.
@@wowland6873 I listen and make sure to not delay it enough to make it lose low end of course. But to do this requires very accurate monitoring of the lowest frequencies and trained ears. It would be nice to just have a "short-cut" like this, but that would also require purchasing the software.
If I put kilohearts disperser on a group with just my Kick and bass in it does it do this automatically? Since disperser snaps the waveform peaks together around a point you determine and then disperses them outward from whatever frequency you pick?
@@analogueakyou don’t need this specific oscilloscope to do this. Also what you’re doing with the delay thing is just a worse version of side chaining, not trying to hate or anything but you should just sidechain instead
@zoid3515 I don't think i was clear enough. I apologize. Im talking about delaying the sample a very small amount of time that is equivalent to a fraction of a single cycle of the waveform. It literally the same result as using this plugin but youdo not need thd plugin. What you DO need is a solid understanding of how sound works.
Btw noise cancellation is basically inverting a waveform and then playing it back to cancel out audio. If you're using out of phase kick and bass samples, you're basically noise cancelling bro😂😂😂😂
As cool as this is is there really a point in having 2 kicks because that is essentially what is going on here. An "808 bass" is actually a kick and you only need one transient. So craft a better kick or 808 that has the elements you want and avoid the phase issues all together.
There's many reasons. Different kicks and 808s have unique tonal characteristics, which will contribute to a different sound palette. Layering them can add sonic richness and complexity to an otherwise dull low-end. It helps with frequency range coverage too. One kick may excel in the lower frequencies while another has more midrange or high frequencies. Using both gives more balance and dynamics. Not to mention the context of an 808, for example, within the mix. Perhaps you don't always want an 808 hitting. Layering kicks and 808s (and anything else for that matter), allows for specific processing and effects to be applied to each layer to shape the sounds. Also 808s aren't always kicks.
@@chocomalkThe 808 bass sound is used as a bass rather than a kick in these cases. Sure, you could create from scratch but if you’re after that 808 bass sound, why would you bother?
It's also about production and layering 2 transients hitting at the same time is one of the biggest mistakes people make even before phase issues. This causes higher peaks and possibly clipping. And the Roland TR-808 has no bass, it's a kick which is why people have so many issues layering 2 kicks instead of combining a transient, body and tail to create one cohesive hit. You may think I am being pedantic but it is a kick and way easier to mix if you treat it as one. @@ballskin
Oh great so I should just stop making music cuz AI is gonna come after me? A lot people make music because they genuinely enjoy it, not for monetary gain.
The one time 'inverting the polarity' actually saved the day.
Wdym? It does all the time. Especially in recording
It does that more often than everyone would think 😅
FYI, the plugin used in the video is ShaperBox 3's Oscilloscope Tool 👀👍
I mean... what else would it have been seeing as we're on Cable Guys RUclips! Lol. Another blinding tip, thank you!
For those who don't get it: opposite waveforms cancels each other (no sound) and equal waves gives an amplified waveform 🎉physic of waves. If interested read👉 constructive interference
I love that SB has a stand-alone oscilloscope. It made stuff like this more convenient to do
LFO Tool has the same. It's such a handy thing to have.
@@IanSolano imho the UI of LFO Tool looks so out of date. Wasn't even good at release.
So true, @@stereokel It def needs a facelift! Same with Arts Acoustic Reverb, lol.
@@IanSolano yeah this looks also aged
@@IanSolanoalso 75% of the waves line up 😭 i only have 1 waves plug in left installed, don't even remember which one, i guess it's trans-x (which is also outdated af but does the job sometimes, but got replaced fast by the ridiculously simple "transient shaper" by kilohearts which is free btw, would recommend the free kilohearts plug ins to everyone too)
The plug in industry always update the wrong ones, like NI with massive x which never got used by anybody, so they put the old OG massive back in the shop 😂 same goes with quadrafuzz or saturn, the OG ones were perfect 👌🏼😭
And then we have companys like waves selling EQs looking like windows 95 with 12db slopes only for the same price as kirchoff - while nova is free and the most DAWs have updated their EQs to habe a dynamic option and mid/side processing like studio one or cubase
Until the 808 changes pitch! Solution: either pitch the kick higher than the highest note of the 808 or use sidechain ! Or manually change phase for each clash and see the oscilloscope!
Than*
Not needed mate kick only lasts o that split second and u just need it to punch through kick stops playing before 80& even changes pitch
how long are your kicks lol
@@samelecta10122 enough to mess the phase and loose power! If you know you know!!
usually between 50 and 200ms@@samelecta10122
I am SO happy someone finally said "invert the polarity" instead of "invert the phase"!!!!
Bite size music tutorials like this I love. I honestly didn’t see any need in reversing polarity up until now, thanks for the advice!
The oscilloscope is so damn useful, love it ! 👌
Ya'll are legit the BEST of the not huge plugin makers
Very convenient selecting kicks and the bass waveform that matches up the best. With other notes its hard always have the phase align
Perfect illustration of: it's the little things that matter.
👏 this channel is so good
I can't count how many times a simple phase shifting on the bass or on the kick drum has made the entire mix to breathe like magic.
Science, man 🤙
I adjust every note manually if the Kick and 808 plays at the same time, its always a little bit time and nerve consuming but at the end if Kick and 808 play toghether they support each other and the Kick dont loose punch.
this guy never misses 🔥🔥
Best plugins.
Never knew this, but I had knowledge about the phase and out of phase thing . This is awesome man.
Can't we change the start time of the kick or bass to adjust the phase to perform the same???
"Can't we change the start time of the kick or bass to adjust the phase to perform the same???"
Yes.
Reminded me of some advice from some producers:
If you ever need to do this by ear, which can if it's visually not really working, try to adjust the phase until it sounds the worst, and then reverse the polarity.
Is it possible to have a feature to make the plugin auto-align the phase?
What happens if you have a live recorded kick track where things are not so square?
How to do this in Logic Pro!
How can I layer the sounds in logic pro x to get the same view?
how did you invert the polarity?
With ableton utility pluging!
@@louisp THANK YOU!! i've been trying to find that for the last week!
What happens when the 808 changes notes and the waveform is different?
Probably have to start messing around with the rendered tracks.
Normally, I'll have two versions of the same kick. Each one will be aligned appropriately with the correct note of the 808.
Tbh I couldn’t hear any difference, maybe it’s because the cycles of the alignment were simply to short
Is it wrong to add a transient shaper, mix kicks loud and clip your kicks hard with 808s lower??
Like many thing in music, if it sounds good, that’s all that matters. The old school engineers may have their own way of doing it. But if you like it, it’s probably fine.
🎉
Another, possibly easier solution is to delay the bass by 1-10 milliseconds.
You'll likely lose low end doing this because there will be a space of silence between the kick and sub, kick sub relation is something more people should think about imo.
@@wowland6873 I listen and make sure to not delay it enough to make it lose low end of course. But to do this requires very accurate monitoring of the lowest frequencies and trained ears. It would be nice to just have a "short-cut" like this, but that would also require purchasing the software.
If I put kilohearts disperser on a group with just my Kick and bass in it does it do this automatically? Since disperser snaps the waveform peaks together around a point you determine and then disperses them outward from whatever frequency you pick?
@@analogueakyou don’t need this specific oscilloscope to do this. Also what you’re doing with the delay thing is just a worse version of side chaining, not trying to hate or anything but you should just sidechain instead
@zoid3515 I don't think i was clear enough. I apologize. Im talking about delaying the sample a very small amount of time that is equivalent to a fraction of a single cycle of the waveform. It literally the same result as using this plugin but youdo not need thd plugin. What you DO need is a solid understanding of how sound works.
I'm wondering why they sound exactly the same to me.
what software is this
How can you zoom in shaper box?
Btw noise cancellation is basically inverting a waveform and then playing it back to cancel out audio. If you're using out of phase kick and bass samples, you're basically noise cancelling bro😂😂😂😂
I dont know but out of phase was hearable through my phone
mono is amazing for noticing phase issues
interesting
I'm listening on studio monitors and it actually rattled something on the punchier version.
Doof! 🥊
👌🏼💯💯💯
I only hear a very very slight difference tbh
the 8O8 sounds terrible..
did you used the Akai xl3000 for sampling at 8bit at 4k?! 😂
or you could just sidechain….
As cool as this is is there really a point in having 2 kicks because that is essentially what is going on here. An "808 bass" is actually a kick and you only need one transient. So craft a better kick or 808 that has the elements you want and avoid the phase issues all together.
There's many reasons. Different kicks and 808s have unique tonal characteristics, which will contribute to a different sound palette. Layering them can add sonic richness and complexity to an otherwise dull low-end. It helps with frequency range coverage too. One kick may excel in the lower frequencies while another has more midrange or high frequencies. Using both gives more balance and dynamics. Not to mention the context of an 808, for example, within the mix. Perhaps you don't always want an 808 hitting. Layering kicks and 808s (and anything else for that matter), allows for specific processing and effects to be applied to each layer to shape the sounds. Also 808s aren't always kicks.
You can build it from scratch to your tonal desires and avoid phase issues but 808s are kicks used as basses.@@ballskin
@@chocomalkThe 808 bass sound is used as a bass rather than a kick in these cases. Sure, you could create from scratch but if you’re after that 808 bass sound, why would you bother?
@@chocomalk Making music isn't just about efficiency. It's about expression, which is why people layer sounds, etc. And 808s can be kicks or basses.
It's also about production and layering 2 transients hitting at the same time is one of the biggest mistakes people make even before phase issues. This causes higher peaks and possibly clipping. And the Roland TR-808 has no bass, it's a kick which is why people have so many issues layering 2 kicks instead of combining a transient, body and tail to create one cohesive hit. You may think I am being pedantic but it is a kick and way easier to mix if you treat it as one. @@ballskin
wth is an oscilloscope and where do I find one?
I litterally hear no difference 😮 my headphones 🎧 really are bad
This isn't punchy. This is boomy and will just destroy your mix's low end.
Sidechain.....
sidechaining be like: exists
This has absolutely 0 relevance to my entire life, but I enjoyed it nevertheless 😂
Logic Pro user 💀
that's ableton lmao
Do not concern yourself with learning anything. AI will be creating all music soon. Best to find an entry level job.
even if that was true, keeping the art of producing alive is imperative! learning all of it is still worth it to me (:
Lol AI will never be able to make music as beautiful as humans do
Oh great so I should just stop making music cuz AI is gonna come after me? A lot people make music because they genuinely enjoy it, not for monetary gain.
AI is gonna do shit so stop trippin