Symbiote Spider-Man: How adaptation can flip the script
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- Опубликовано: 30 мар 2024
- Well it’s been a while but it’s fitting I relaunch this channel the same way I started, talking about the symbiote call it a “new number one” if you will #spiderman #symbiote #symbiotesuit #comics
Hey all here’s a list of all the tracks I used these can also be found in my playlist long box exclusives
Blank Banshee- B:/ start up
Espirit- ESpirit.wav
Master Stryker- Sony boogie
Tokyo pill- Let’s all love lain
Espirit- warm pop
Grandturismo 4- an old bassman
Liked the video I just disagree
" The venom symbiote is not evil. It's misunderstood."
That's exactly what someone Wearing the symbiote would say.
TAKE IT OFF TAKE IT OFF!!!!!!
Lmao
rip off your skin
It already too late for him
NOOOOOO WE NEED EACH OTHER!!!!!
You want him to get naked?
A Spider-man fan that respects the symbiote beyond venom this must be a april fools joke.
I assure you it isn’t
I do
I'm with Sam Raimi on this. I hate Venom, eddie is the least interesting host and the least interesting symbiote villain and yet everyone LOVES him just cus he has a cool design. Its infuriating, the symbiotes taking control of all super powered beings systemically is a cool storyline idea that is rarely explored. Carnage is intimidating because he's psychotic and an immediate threat to Humanity. Venom is just a jock bully, eddie is not an evil guy so he won't kill spider-man Or any innocents, so how is he a good villain? Black Suit Spider-Man was more scary than venom.
@Vishnu_Karthik I disagree I love venom I just don't like when he's depicted as a anti hero its not in character for the symbiote but I believe Eddie is in character for it
@@Vishnu_KarthikI have a question ik that symbiote isn’t really evil but wouldn’t it be evil bc of Deadpool bonding with it before Spider-Man. I also thought the symbiote wasn’t evil until the 90s show and then comics starting adapting it too
It’s not the Symbiote that corrupts the host…
It’s the HOST that corrupts the Symbiote.
Exactly it only enhances what is already there
@@foliagedcarcasswait I thought it was evil bc of deadpool. In secret wars deadpool had the symbiote suit and Deadpool’s mind corrupt the symbiote or was that retconned
@@sejhehsidbdsbs6682 if that was true that would be dumb 💀
@@foliagedcarcass I mean did deadpool did have it in Deadpool’s secret wars which when he had the suit the symbiote felt Deadpool’s insanity 💀
@@sejhehsidbdsbs6682i think they said that’s the reason the symbiote loved Peter so much bc Deadpool loved Spider-Man
A common misconception about how symbiotes work are they are inherently evil and corrupt their hosts on purpose when that isn’t the case at all. It’s actually the other way around.
When Peter Parker had the black suit, it was initially benevolent to him and genuinely made his life better as Spider-Man. It wasn’t until Peter started having a bad attitude that affected the symbiote’s behavior, which it in turn started affecting Peter and turned him into an even bigger asshole.
Peter always had a chip on his shoulder throughout his life but it wasn’t until he had the symbiote that truly brought out the worst in him. And he really only had himself to blame for his selfish actions, not the symbiote.
Yeah if they’re gonna do the symbiote storyline in the MCU. They should build up to the twist that it wasn’t the symbiote affecting Peter, but rather the other way around. I’m kind of tired of the drug allegory approach.
@@ethanrodgers2838there already is a symbiote in the MCU left behind by the Sonyverse Venom. I like to imagine it’s another offspring, therefore it’s technically a baby symbiote that has a lot to learn. And if they cast a new Eddie Brock to Tom Holland’s Peter it could be an amazing storyline.
If you really think about it, having a new Venom in the MCU would be Peter’s fault because that baby symbiote wasn’t supposed to be in their dimension to begin with, so it all goes back to the spell he messed up with Doctor Strange during No Way Home.
How poetic.
@@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX That would be great. Couple that with Peter’s growing anger being one of the reasons the symbiote turns evil and we got ourselves an amazing and fresh take that’s new, or rather one we haven’t seen in a long wire.
@@ethanrodgers2838 I feel that they are building up to the most comic accurate symbiote arc for Tom. Tom's Peter has been shown to have a temper and lash out without the Symbiote, and especially with Secret Wars coming up. I just hope the suit isn't a lazy recolor...
I have a question with this but wouldn’t it be evil or insane in the comics bc of Deadpool bonding with it made it insane or made it feel Deadpool’s insanity either I feel bad for the symbiote bc it just wanted to help peter but recently in 2099 Miguel’s half brother kron bonds with the symbiote and he’s evil with it
very good video >:D
Wow
Its you
guys that’s PROBABLY psm
The goat ia here
THE GOAT
Spider-Man TAS: The Spider-Man cartoon that every movie, cartoon, and video game gets their ideas from.
-Green Goblin split personality
-Dr Connors being Peter’s school teacher/mentor
-Otto Octavius being Peter’s mentor
-Eddie Brock being a rival coworker
-Eddie Brock taking incriminating pictures of Spider-Man.
-A Goblin trying to take over the
criminal underworld by usurping the biggest mob boss in the city.
-John Jameson bringing the symbiote to Earth.
-Dr Connors being the person who discovers that the symbiote is alive.
-The Vulture having a vendetta against Norman Osborn
-Norman Osborn being in league with the Kingpin (or the show’s Kingpin equivalent).
-Spider-Man teaming up with alternate universe versions of himself
-And finally…The Alien Costume corrupting it’s host is the story for every adaptation EXCEPT the original
All facts
All true except the hobgoblin did team up with the Rose to usurp the Kingpin in the comics before TAS
The original kinda was a slight dick-move over ditching it since all it did was fighting crime and used Peter's body while he was asleep.
Jesus tldr
@@thegreatacolyt1277 damn low attention span?
With no way home putting an emphasis on Tom’s Peters temper, I think now they perfectly set themselves up for a more faithful symbiote adaptation
But will sugar daddy stark give the ok for him tu put on the symbiote? XD
@@herautthen theres always people like u who clearly didnt pay attention to his movies
@@herautStark is dead though?
@@heraut”Listen here champ I know I’m dead but should you really wear that? Is that something iron man would do? Now let me make you another suit,”
lately in the news it’s been rumoured that the next 3 movies are getting cancelled
I love this. I feel the exact same way. I hope even fan adaptations will keep this in mind if they do their own symbiote adaptation.
Idea: We DO see Peter become more aggressive when wearing the suit, but only because the symbiote is picking up on, identifying with, and amplifying Peter’s existing dark urges. Best of both worlds there.
I thought that's what the case was, honestly. Like, it's not the Symbiote enhancing his strength, it's just allowing him to draw out even more than he usually allows.
Black spidey suit is peak spiderman drip, fight me
*Julia Carpenter:* He's a thief, he stole my suit, he's a menace to the entire city!
Ideally, Peter and the Symbiote would corrupt each other. The Symbiote's boost to Peter's abilities and easy fixes to a lot of his problems would bring out a lot of his already existing flaws, while Peter's terrible behavior despite being the hero would lead to the Symbiote emulating and encouraging that behavior. When Peter recognizes what the Symbiote is doing to him and splits from it, the Symbiote takes what it learns to Eddie and comes back for revenge. It's only after a while that it starts to learn that even heroes can have flaws, at which point Venom can go from being a Spider-Man villain to something of an anti-hero or even an ally.
There’s a fan film I watched called Peter’s Web. It was through that fan film where I learned that the symbiote actually saved Peter. And took him out in his sleep
I think the whole "it effects his mood" thing _can_ work. But you have to treat it, not as if the symbiote is bad, but rather that peter is just a bad host. Where PETER is the one constantly fighting the symbiote rather than the symbiote fighting against peter. Peter needs to be treated as like an abusive host in this relationship. Yes, the symbiote has drawbacks, flaws (both for the user and it's own character) but ultimately, the symbiote NEEDS to be a symbiote, not a parasite.
As an example, peter always sees the symbiote as an "it" rather than a "them". Treating the creature as nothing more than a malicious tool conspiring against him. That's a toxic relationship, ESPECIALLY if peter is the one pushing that narative. To me, that shows to his character flaw of making enemies rather than working through his problems. I like to imagine there's a peter in the spider-verse that ACTUALLY did learn to talk to the symbiote and work through their issues (not unlike what we see playout in the venom live action movies). Where they no longer identify as a collective duo, but individuals. Where the symbiote learned to self identify itself separate from any one specific host. This peter and [venom symbiote] both acknowledge they aren't the best pairing for eachother and thus try to find compromises between eachother. To "individually" work together separately as a team sharing the same body rather than them working together as a unified being.
I hated the ps5 take of venom, and that's partially because Knull hurts the symbiote mythos as a whole and just should be retconned out of existence, BUT, one thing that I liked is the scene where the alien showed fear. "Destroy. . . us" D:. That line, it was spoken as if said by a small sad scared and innocent child. That to me shows what the dynamic SHOULD be, a toxic peter wanting to destroy his partner where as his partner just wants to live his life and help his host.
Now that I think about it. MTV’s New Spider Series Spider-man has got to be one of the best depictions of Peter and Spider-man.
He has the attitude, the temper, the distinct voices between Peter and Spider-man, still utilized his intellect without mechanical web shooters as the go-to for showing that off, and above all, he could be an absolute menace without needing an alien suit to “amplify his negative emotions”. He was 100% willing to execute Kraven when he believed he killed MJ. That’s something very few depictions have utilized. NWH had that moment, but there’s been very few (basically no) moments of genuine anger (not mild annoyance or a tantrum) to make it feel natural or genuine in a characterization sense.
Which is why MTV’s Spider-man has to be one of the most under appreciated adaptations of Spider-man
THIS. I’m so glad someone else has this view
*5:58** +100 EXTRA POINTS for the LARP reference*
You hate Iron Man 3, so, *-100 EXTRA POINTS for the LARP reference.*
I personally love when people who think they know the symbiote when all they know is everything from the 90's cartoon and beyond. They don't realize or know anything about what the symbiote was really like. So I'm so glad that someone like you are able to say the truth about the symbiote and what it really did and do.
This person actually knows what he's talking about and really cares about the character versus most people who just use the same storyline from the 90's over and over but changing it to fit what adaption or whatever their doing. It's getting more annoying and more frustrating to see it happening. All I hope is that more people try and use the original symbiote storyline elements and make a good story from it.
Keep up the good work and you got a sub from me for everything you said in this one video.
Yeah the suit never made Peter dark. It would take him out for rides at night making him tired though. The evil part is probably inspired by Spider-Carnage from the later clone saga.
This is amazing and I agree with everything but I still love how the spectacular cartoon does it. I think that's the best version of the "symbiote makes him evil" trope the 90s cartoon started without sacrificing his regular character flaws
Another point in comics people who adapt these stories seem to be ignorant of is Venoms first defeat. Eddie recounts as he was falling, and Peter cutting his web lines, he felt unable to stop, like he was desperately grabbing for something but it was not him doing it. The suit wanted Peter back so badly it was forcing Brock to try to stay in the fight.
A lot of adaptations seem to forget the symbiote sees Peter like an ex boyfriend. It only fights him because it feels wronged by Peter’s rejection of it. In early comics had Peter genuinely wanted it back it would’ve left Brock immediately. That’s literally how he beats Eddie on one occasion, which Spectacular adapted.
Man, this video captures everything I despise about modern Symbiote Saga adaptations. I love it, you just earned yourself a new sub.
It always felt so weird to me to have Peter be mind controlled by the Symbiote into acting like a jerk, because it cheapened the story by taking away responsibility from Peter and sweeping under the rug the fact that HE was the one that corrupted the suit, with his rejection/xenophobia (when he discovered the suit was alive, he said he’d rather die than be bonded with it. He, _Spider-Man_, didn’t even try to communicate with it and work things out. It was instant rejection for no reason other.).
The Symbiote was never evil until it bonded with Eddie. Just misunderstood. Having it be inherently bad from the getgo removes its character from the story to give the audience a clear bad guy to hate and a motive to root for Pete, but that’s just the easy way out, when the OG story was much more nuanced than this.
Its kinda strange that the best and most consistent version of Venom is still the comic
Let’s hope the MCU gets it right when they finally reboot and clean up Sonys Venom mess. Insomniac fumbled the ball hard as well
I really hated how they did the symbiote in Spider-Man 2. No nuance, no convincing bond or emotion given to the symbiote. Just evil alien is evil, which is such a misstep because it really shows the writers weren’t thinking about the source material or even the themes of their own game when writing venom.
they just wanted to lore dump lol. the story is a mess. another factor is sbi, and we won't talk about them
spiderman 2 has one of the worst adaptation of the symbiote storyline. Stolen plot lines, Harry is mediocre and the symbiote just became and evil alien that wanted to take over the planet. I can’t believe how that game was so praised
@@Hollowfication96 recency bias
@@Hollowfication96 1. Good game play
2. Most of the other story elements are pretty good.
3. The stuff with symbiote Peter isn't that bad just a bit rush.
4. Because most people are complaining about how mid venom was.
@@Hollowfication96No it doesn’t it has one of the best
You likely already know this, the black and white suit was originated by a reader named Randy Schueller.
Schueller's design was for a tech based suit designed by Avenger the Wasp, kind of like Spidey's suit with the symbiote fighting tech from the Spider-Man Unlimited cartoon.
Schueller's suit had red where the white parts are everywhere but the eyes and had red webbing under the armpits.
Schueller doesn't care for how the suit was turned into an alien and spawned all the symbiote stuff.
His original idea was for a costume change for the hero and it eventually led to Marvel creating a symbiote Joker with Carnage and now all the retconning with the symbiotes being on Earth before Secret Wars and Knull and the King in Black stuff.
I can appreciate his perspective about it all given his original intentions with his submission to Marvel.
I got burnt out on all the symbiotes in the 90s and just when they were taking Venom back to the basics with the symbiote and Eddie bonding again and I was psyched for that, BOOM! King in Black, Venom-Verse, and everybody's wearing a symbiote now.
I feel like the 90s series version of the story is too iconic mainstream, and well-known for anyone to do anything else because the original isn't all that famous while the 90s version is.
People forget the venom host is unique
Kylntar retconned a couple things but “Suit” always wanted to bond and live with its host
Even though these species are meant to complete overtake and decay it’s host but “Suit” refused to do it
It was taken ? Or willingly went to battle world
Either way it was comfortable with Peter
It LOVES ITS HOST- other symbiote don’t act like “Suit” does
You are one of the few I’ve seen who actually really understand this character. Pete has been so watered down and softened.. even in the insomniac games. Pete has issues lol he was an orphaned kid who lost his father figure. He’s got trauma. He’s got anger issues. But deep down he’s a fundamentally good person despite all his flaws, and that’s what makes him so damn compelling and relatable. The 90s series nailed that. Spectacular did a good job at it too but to less of a degree.
I just like the idea of the Symbiote highlighting the worst aspects of Peter's character and giving him the opportunity to truly reflect about himself and mature, it's definitely better than the Symbiote turning him into a violent psycho overnight which seems to be the standard depiction nowadays.
Great vid, i love when people talk classic 616 spidey, hes such a layered character and theres a reason hes so popular
Literally summed up my thoughts I've had for ages. Especially the part about Peter being flawed. Great video :)!!!
6:59 and cause of that on my spider sona story i made that the symbiote only "took off his breaks" making him say stiff he'd usually hold in to not harm anyone, stop holding punches, etc
Cause technically, it is all him
He thinks is the symbiote but when he tales it off in a situation of anger he almost kills scorpion
Making him realize how much of a angry immature teenager he really is and how hes not ready for this life
Blaiming an alien for HIS anger problems that it was only showing it as its nature
So spider-man
No more
12:47 I love how you mention Midnight Suns. It is truly is the most comic book accurate portrayal of Eddie/Venom/the symbiote.
It's also worth noting that in MS, Eddie actually tells you that the symbiote doesn't simply buff the host (yet another misconception about the symbiote), Venom only become that huge solely because Eddie HIMSELF workout a lot.
Which reflect to ASM 332, where Eddie explains why the symbiote enhance him BUT not Peter:
Eddie: "You didn't boost Spider-Man's strength when you were with him because his abilities were already augmented by some sort of genetic mutation! But alas, I am merely human! And since you enhance my strength geometrically... the mightier I become, the mightier you make me!"
Edit: Spelling
This reminds me of Insomniac's Spiderman 2. It SEEMED like they were addressing that the symbiote just amplifies what's already there, hence most of Peter's rage, and hostility was just basically HIS issues being amplified, and instead of addressing that once he loses the suit everyone's just collective goes"Ok we're just going to pretend it was the suit that was evil and ignore a LOT of the problems you clearly not wanting to address."
Honestly I'm not the biggest fan of Peter Parker as a character. A GREAT deal of that comes from the writers and them seemingly trying to respond to what the audience/readers want. Kind of like how every director wanted to give Tony Stark an arc in their movie but then the following director would reset it for the next movie. Doesn't make the MOVIES on a individual level bad, but kind of makes the character in the context of a whole come across in a negative way. Peter constantly waffles between what he WANTS to do and what he feels he SHOULD do and ultimately it just creates problems for everyone involved. He can't pick a side because then the comic would get boring and he can't grow because it seems to be proven that the die hard fans don't want him too. They either complain till things are reset or stop reading which forces the writers to do something crazy or reset everything anyway..
Something interesting I found, there is an alternate universe where in the scene with the church bell, Peter actually dies. The symbiote feels horrible, and decided that the city needed a new spiderman. When the symbiote bonds with Eddie, it forces all those feelings of responsibility and all the memories of fighting his villains into him, effectively forcing Eddie to be the new spiderman. Eddie even thinks to himself "this feelings of responsibility isn't mine" but kinda just goes with it.
The worst thing about the mis-adaptation of the Symbiote, is that Peter has never grown from it. Seriously. It is ironic that the whole schtick of Spider-Man is "With great power comes great responsibility", but Peter was never responsible with the Symbiote. Peter gets told that the Symbiote is alive by the Fantastic Four and refuses to communicate with it. Peter gets saved by the Symbiote, and even though we get the page where he'll forever contemplate it, the truth is almost every writer after has chosen to leave this out. There is literally no self-reflection on Peter's part about the Symbiote. More so, Peter constantly does the thing where he tricks the Symbiote to rebond to separate it from Eddie Brock. Peter is abusive and manipulative. And no writer has ever taken the chance to explore this. No writer wants to actually tackle the truth that Peter lies, even if it is for "good". Peter has only basically apologized to Eddie Brock, but has never been considerate towards the Symbiote, even after knowing the truth of their past history.
Damm the music on this vid just straight bangers never thought I would hear them in a vid
I'm commenting this at the time stamp of 2:24
He just asked the question how i would describe the symbiote storyline. Now i grew up with the original comic version. So it'd go kinda like this:
The drawers were tired of drawing spidey's web pattern and so they wanted a new suit. Eventually they stumbled across a black and red suit (symbiote suit with red symbol) and they just changed the red to white. This was during the secret wars event. Peter brings one home to earth and then in secret wars number 8. He ecountered the suit. He then wore the suit for 4 whole years then mr Fantastic studied the suit. He found out it was an alien and advised Peter to put off the suit. And so Peter did. They kept it to study it. And because of this the Symbiote ofcourse felt betrayed as all it did was help Peter (didn't change his mood tho just helped). And so the symbiote found someone with an equal hate towards Peter. Eddie Brock. And later Venom became an anti hero.
I feel the new symbiote arc, with Knull, limits the symbiotes unless you actually plan to do that whole story arc.
Because if you bring that into the story, in some form, you either gotta make the Symbiote evil, or find a way to make it being a "rebel" to the cause work.
People wanted to make the Symbiote in the latest game not evil, and put it all on Peter, problem was, its intentions was never good to begin with, it was always to take the world over. With a "nice" host or with a "evil" host, didn't matter for it.
Seeing a more nuanced and more complex take on the Symbiotes in general, especially Venom, would be nice, but one gotta lay down some good groundwork for it, and be in it for the long run, not just 1 game, or few episodes
This video was awsome bro, I love the symbiotes despite how often they are used.
I have been arguing this exact point for years and im so glad im not the only one. Thank you for the video
I love this video, you've earned a new Subscriber my friend
I wasn't sure what to expect when I saw all the title. But this was a good video. Very informative
Honestly I really wish there was a version of the Symbiote where it stays bonded with Spiderman. Where they communicate, and work out what was wrong. I think it would be really cool.
Surpised you didn't mention a cool symboite what if
The one where peter dies during the bell take off and instead of becoming venom
The symboite realises the world needs a Spider-Man and together with eddie brock they become Spider-Man
(They don't really become the best version especially with eddie throwing a brick into doc ock's head when he gets separated from the symboite (its a neat note that eddie isn't wearing a Spider-Man costume under the symboite) but it's still a cool concept of the symboite liking Spider-Man)
Good what if
You earned a sub...I was sold on your quote on symbiosis. I can now form a headcanon as for why Venom is goofy; he gets it from Peter, sorta.
Also, i agree with your point on being Peter being a hothead, which is why I believe Andrew Garfield as Peter was fantastic and very comic accurate, especially to the og comic by stan lee and ditko
This video is cool and I like learning about the old lore for the symbiote but the venom arc that gets used in the games and cartoons is awesome on how an alien suit that helped spider-man became spider-mans enemy. And even has a cool name with a cool line.
For having so little content on the channel this is a banger! Easy sub. Looking forward to more videos
More to come!
i think there's a fine balance between both the comic and media interpretations. in the comics, the symbiote didnt really enhance peter's powers, it just gave him unlimited webbing, shapeshifting, and piloted his body while he slept to fight more crime. but the idea that it physically enhances peter seems like a better idea to me. and the idea that it makes peter more aggressive is also a neat idea that i like, if executed correctly which is to say that it just enhances the emotions he already has.
the comics mentioned that the symbiote bonded to emotionally simple hosts in alien territory. if i were to make an assumption, its former hosts prior to the retcons were more instinctual and did things for survival. so enhancing those emotions would help those hosts survive from predators. however, because humanity and human relationships are so complex, the symbiote doesnt understand that making peter angrier than he already is is actually detrimental to his social survival. it's not evil, just doing what it knows how to do based on past experiences. it's a simple animal and it does what simple animals do.
what can be even better is if a part of peter blames the symbiote for this without taking any accountability on his end which is why he has such hate for venom. this can help fuel venom's anger towards peter because of the uniust hate he has for the venom symbiote.
venom can be used as a vehicle for peter to reflect on his lack of accountability while also allowing for eddie and the symbiote to reflect on themselves for also lacking that accountability, making them both see their own hypocritical actions and mindsets and making it so that the conflict isn't so one sided which leads to a maybe more smooth transition to them leaving new york to become san francisco's vigilante
I still think the suit affecting his emotions was a good addition but as you say, it's not evil so it should just be amplifying his base emotions meaning he's still the one at fault for letting his own anger & self loathing get out of hand in response to the suit not flat out because of it
You remind me of early psm videos!!!
I think having the Symbiote Bond to Peter in a moment where he is already angry, is better. As this is the first emotion it learns.
In the game, Spider-Man 2 though, this is how it worked. Harry wasnt angry or changed when he had the suit. He is as happy as can be. It is only through anger and desperation does thr Symbiote learn this, and when seeing Peter's anger and desperation at stopping crime it is amplified. It wasn't mind control. It was more bringing out those emotions to the fore front. But even still it doesnt excuse how you acted cause the Symbiote doesnt mind control you.
Venom is so angry and hateful cause it latched onto those same emotions Eddie had. A mutual understanding. That's probably why the 90s cartoon made the symbiote act like that.
I didn’t know some of these things, thanks for the video.
But isn’t it canon that the symbiote absorbs emotional stimuli and heightens it ? So if Pete’s happy he’s really happy or if angry he’s really angry
THANK YOU for pointing out the issue w the symbiote story in Spider-Man 2. I felt it was too tame of an adaptation
I've always liked the idea that the Symbiote's "first name" is just "The Suit"
One of the most interesting things about the Spider-Man and symbiote relationship is how a creature that only acts on simple logic and base instincts gets influenced by Peter to become a fully sapient individual who willingly risks its own life to save Peter even after he tried ditching it. It adds a layer of tragedy due to how a lack of communication between two people from literally two different worlds ended up causing a lot of problems that could've been avoided. So it sucks that a lot of retellings tend to make it so the symbiote was always evil and deserves to be tossed into a furnace. While the current blueprint of the black suit storyline of it being a fantastic tool that warps your mind is cool, I prefer the nuance of it being a creature that was spurned for doing what it's naturally supposed to and I hope future Spider-Man media try to incorporate that aspect into their own versions.
Personally I see the symbiote in Spider-Man 2 being like the original, when Harry has the suit all it does is heal him but when Peter gets the suit it forces out the negative emotions that he always has in a misguided attempt to help hin be a better Spider-Man, he doesn't think killing criminals is a good solution but it's how he feels, when the symbiote says "I'm the solution" in the boss fight against Peter that's the symbiote truly believing that it's the solution to all of Peter's problems and that it could help him. The symbiote gets corrupted by Peter and later Harry's anger and rage and that's what makes Venom, jt's also why Venom doesn't try to kill Peter at first but instead tries to make Peter join him, because Harry wants to continue his goal of healing the world with Peter, which is why the symbiote starts taking over people. That's just my thoughts on the Spider-Man 2 story tho
This was a really cool to finally get the whole picture of the original comic run’s ending with the symbiote! I had no idea about the “symbiosis is a two way street” part!
I don’t necessarily hate the more aggressive portrayal of the symbiote in some of the better Spider-Man media since, I actually think it’s a really nice analogy for addiction at some points! But I do agree that it would be a much more interesting route to explore it in that original way especially now that it’s been so overplayed!
The way I’d put a spin on the advents here would be the reason the symbiote allows Venom to continue would be a thing is because it gets the attention of Peter. Perhaps the symbiote could be more like an obsessive ex or something and maybe if the host (whoever that is for the story) has their negative emotions overpower the symbiote’s or work alongside it. If the symbiote was given a better, less aggressive host first, maybe it wouldn’t end up a “villain?” Maybe this could tie into a potential storyline for a variant of Agent Venom?
I’m a huge fan of Spidey but am really conflicted on a lot of his media, I’d love to maybe try writing a story like this someday. Thanks for sharing more details on these awesome stories and characters!!
I recently thought of a way to have it that the symbiote "corrupts" its host without being malevolent. Once it bonds it completely connects to you, especially in emotion. It will feel what you feel and it especially reacts to strong emotions. Here's the thing I forgot to mention, if it can feel what you feel, shouldn't it also work the other way around? it becomes an echo chamber of strong emotion, bouncing back and forth getting louder and more distorted as it does, and if you do that with emotions like anger or even anguish...Imagine.
4:44 WOW amazing analysis. The absolute truth about this misunderstood part of Venom Symbiote. Never heard of it untill i got to your video. WOW.
If you think about it the Symbiote does make Peter angry and more hot headed just because it makes him tired. Fighting crime with him while sleeping
Man the commercial at the start brought me back lol.
The symbiote being evil kinda goes against everything we see of them in comics now.... like literally everything about modern Venom comics kinda goes away once you paint it as just evil.
The venom symbiote strengthens the deep emotions of the host it's not evil
Bully didn't need to tease the man with his keys. 🤣
10:58 MOMENTS that give us the sense of Law Of Growth in action
i like the idea it like boosts his emotions including his negative emotions
If I were to make a spider man show I would would have peter the wear black suit for awhile have it be like a season or two and slowly over time it would build up to him removing the suit, unlike every adaptation were he takes it off after wearing for a short time.
You put everything that I dislike about modern Spider-man adaptations into words. The most egregious of them being the recent Insomniac adaptation, oh my god is their Peter insufferable. He's just so flawless, fluffy and boring and if he has any flaws it boils down to "You are too kind ...\ Push yourself too hard". Comic book Peter was unironically one step away from being a school shooter lmao, his jokes weren't cringe or awkward either the way they like to portray him now as being an eye-roll jokester. And yeah the whole symbiote thing is true as well.
Nice joke
crazy how you claim he's "flawless" when the games are literally about him realizing he's flawed and goes out of his way to fix those flaws. Actually pay attention to the games you play.
@@spideyfan1024 I'm pretty sure he's talking about the 2nd game. Pete literally did very horrible things when he was bonding with the symbiote, yet after returning to red and blue, there are no consequences for his action, everyone forgive him that's fast. Peter never acknowledged his mistakes, he just simply blamed on the symbiote.
@@vengeance4566 He does that in the comics all the time
@@vengeance4566So…just like every adaptation of the symbiote?
That intro commercial was actually hilarious
I think if anything, many recent adaptations straight up skip Venom's time as a villain to have him become a(n) (anti)hero right away. Both Eddie Brock and the symbiote don't get the time to get over their grudge against Peter Parker and Spider-Man anymore, skipping the character growth needed to create the Lethal Protector.
The most egregious example is arguably the Venom movies, where Spider-Man is nowhere to be seen.
I absolutely hate it how because of TAS and Spider-Man 3 everybody thinks symbiote is evil. i hope atleast the MCU will adapt the classic symbiote spiderman storyline.
To be fair, I think a lot of adaptations (at least Sam Raimi’s) interpret the symbiote as an alcohol metaphor
In Spider-Man 3, when it lands on Earth, it tries to latch onto the closest organism around (which happens to be Peter/MJ, who both go to drive off)
It finally latches onto Peter when he’s thinking dark thoughts about what really happened to Uncle Ben. Either this is to try to comfort him, or to feed off his negative emotions, now that he’s at his lowest point.
Pete wakes up in the black suit, takes a bit of a joyride, and then takes a sample of the symbiote to Dr. Connors to see what’s up with it. These are probably connected, perhaps by Peter being curious about where he got the new suit. Then he goes to kill Sandman
After that, he goes home, and once he looks in the mirror, he takes off the black suit. He must’ve realized something was off about this new suit, and later, Dr. Connors tells him more about the symbiote. An important detail is that “it *amplifies the host’s characteristics,* especially aggression.” After a revelation involving Harry and MJ, Peter “withdrawls” and puts the black suit back on. Connors may have told him afterwards, but Peter likely already has an idea about the suit after the mirror look. He stopped caring at this point. Even while Connors is telling him this stuff, Pete’s nodding off and ignoring him. He feels like he needs the black suit to be “complete”
About how the symbiote affects Peter, it’s not the aggression; the main point is the amplification. While Peter’s mind isn’t being clouded by vengeance (killing Sandman, beating up Harry) or by spite (Using Gwen to get back at MJ), he’s still a kinda functioning man, but his ego he has during the movie’s events really manifests into a personality when he wears the symbiote. He rizzes Betty Brant at work, leans back in the chair, propping his feet up on the desk, and he struts the streets like it’s a runway and dances like a douche, weirding some people out. This is something people argue about alcohol; that it’s an enhancer, for better or for worse. It’s a party starter for some, and the climax of a mental breakdown for others, and Peter realizes after he slaps MJ at the jazz club, that he can’t handle it, and goes to take it off. Then you have Eddie Brock, who was already not a great guy, by the end of the movie, absolutely solidifies himself into the kind of guy who craves alcohol, and wants nothing more than Peter dead and humiliated.
Side note though, if the symbiote amplifies whatever the host has got, what if someone like Superman bonded with it?
As a Venom fan I want to add that not only is it used to whitewash Peter but also used as a cudgel to deny Venom the redemption arc they had in the comics. Despite Eddie spending most of his existence as a character as a good guy. So the symbiote is not allowed to be a character and with Eddie they are not allowed the depth and growth they had in the comics, while Peter is denied his flaws. It is a change that is nothing but harmful and I have always hated it.
6:58
^ I’ve missed uploads from this channel, love me some symbiote content🕷️🕸️
Despite having a very different origin, I think Ultimate Spider-Man has the most accurate characterization of the venom symbiote.
Marvel Spider-Man 2 took inspiration from the original symbiote story think about it when it was with harry it saw Peter/Spider-Man as a hero just like Harry did and it never did anything evil during its time with harry and those two trying to bond with peter scenes were just its curiosity of what type of host peter could be and when peter died from kraven harry felt emotions like anger, grief and sadness which also made the Symbiote feel the same and as a last resort it melted away and latched onto peter to save him now as you mentioned the Symbiote is intelligent and learns the emotions of the host it did the same and peter's behavior like anger, resentment, lashing out on others that were shown during his time with the symbiote was still him and when the symbiote latched onto harry again it managed to apply all the knowledge it learned from peter which resulted in the birth of Venom so you can ssy that peter unintentionally corrupted the symbiote not the other way around
Great video. You hit the nails on the head.
I've always thought this, there was a time in the 80s where he was using the suit and wasn't a bad guy, the trope just started one day and an endless cycle started lol
I just read all these issues recently
Very cool vid... instant sub my friend!
Basically *if batman wore the symbiote* they'd get along great because Batman doesn't really get any sleep to begin with.
I too hate when people call the symbiote “Venom” as well. For casuals it’s a bit more forgivable but for people who are supposedly fans of the character it’s pretty disgraceful. These same people be saying the quote “We Are Venom” while showing that they have no idea what that even means.
A better way to have the Symbiote "Change" Peter's behavior could be
It witnessed Peter getting mad a few times and started to Imitate that behavior when Taking his body on it's LARP sessions. But, because it doesn't know how Emotions actually work it ends making it seem like peter has been Acting out.
That could mean he starts getting angry about what was happening due to the Suit taking him out on battles while he was a sleep
i think the only thing i flat out disagree with here is the idea that peter was "being mind controlled by an evil alien" in insomniac's spider man 2.
i think the game tells us pretty blatantly that peter is the cause of the suit's negative characteristics.
while the game does not flat out tell you word for word. It's still pretty heavily implied that the symbiot is only bringing out the flaws in peter that already exists within him.
even before he puts the suit on, you can definitely see hints of his negative characteristics in the early segments of the game.
When Harry had the suit initially, you saw no such negative characteristics. only once it bonded to peter and then back onto harry did you see the "evil alien" cliché come out.
so i would say him apologizing for his actions afterwards isn't meaningless at all.
i guess the game could have made that point a bit more clear but i honestly caught on to that fact pretty early on in my playthrough of it.
and to be honest i think its a far more compelling element to peter's character in the insomniac universe rather than the suit not having any significant impact on his mental stability.
he's clearly been holding back a lot trauma and now he finally has an outlet/excuse (the symbiote) to express it all.
peter is the negative catalysis here, not the symbiote.
Honestly I thought of a story where the symbiote misunderstands things or takes it too literal and after a specific moment protecting his host is starting to get corrupted
I definitely see how you’d want for adaptations to separate venom and the symbiote, but I like it more as the symbiote is just venom. It feels like if the symbiote went onto a different person, now it would go by some new name or be completely different, but I like it more as venom because that gives it more if a character more than just the symbiote and whoever it’s on is it’s personality. I get your points, but I like it being venom 100% of the time because that makes it more of an actual character.
Now I wanna see a version where spider man just keeps the symbiote 😭
There has been. Recently one called Spider’s Shadow released I think a few years back. Completely takes a toll on Pete and I highly recommend it
Story time
When BK had the scratch off promo for SM3 one day my dad and I went and ate there and we did our scratch offs but we both lost. However, on my other scratch side was a flat screen tv redemption and my dad's been mad at me about it since :')
Finally someone said it, thank you
very good music taste :3
I grew up on the old cartoon, and the 3 part Venom saga are still some of my favorite episodes. That being said, when I learned more about the comic's version later, I thought it was kind of sad that the 90s cartoon became the template for how it would be used going forward. I think it works in the 90s show, but it'd be nice to see the symbiote not treated as a "turns people evil" goop all the time. (I have a friend that is particularly upset about this as she LOVES comic Venom.)
6:34 WOW. never saw this Fox Kids Advert of Spider-Man since my childhood, although these kind of graphics really amazed my back then in late nineties and early 2000's
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0:19 Good Lord Bully Maguire was real💀
Love this video for calling out the flaws in the symbiote adaptations, really though I think most of them after the 90's cartoon are falling victim to two things, A. the fact the Ultimate universe version was a steroid analogy and they adapted from there and B. the preconception that The Suit is inherently bad because of how scary Venom looks.
I'd love to have a comic where Peter makes up with the symbiote
I know it's not comic accurate, but I prefer the concept of the symbiote saga being this dark period in Peter's life where he unreasonably fucks up and has to atone for it afterwards.
When I say concept I mean it, because I think Spider-Man 3 is the take which most closely tackles it in that way, but that story also comes with a lot of issues obviously.
However stuff like the recent Insomniac game making it this outside entity which is basically entirely mindcontrolling Peter is so fucking boring. He's just evil for no reason and none of it feels earned or like it matters. It's literally "omg this alien goo makes me evil, I got it off? Neat now I'm all back to normal with the snap of my fingers"
I know what you mean by adaptations often censoring Peter's short temper, and I think it'd be interesting if they had a take on that storyline which would involve everything reaching a boiling point due to Peter's actual decisions and character flaws during a particularly stressful period in his life.
Idk I forgot where I was going with this, but I think the Spider-Man 3 style of symbiote would lead itself to an incredibly gripping storyline still, it's just the kinda thing that would have to be planned out long enough in advance and where to fit it into the overall narrative.
That's kind of a problem with long term comic book storytelling. There's definitely moments which become iconic and live on, but usually individual stories will lack the meaning and staying power they could have because they become one of thousands.
I forgot where I was going with this, but rewatching Avatar recently and remembering how next to every episode mattered or could be considered a meaningful part of the overall journey makes me really wish there was a way to restructure Spider-Man's comic book history into more conscize meaningful arcs. In which stuff like the symbiote could also shine WAY more.
But I guess that's what the cartoon adaptations are for... want Spectacular back...
I feel like it took something away from the symbiote to lay all the blame on it. It was the host that corrupted the symbiote, not the symbiote that corrupted the host.
0:00-0:23 Bully Maguire strikes again.
I wish the 90’s series gave us a more proper animated adaptation. It could be a full season long.