Did Hiromatsu Knew Toranaga's Secret Plan In SHOGUN?
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- Did Hiromatsu Knew Toranaga's Secret Plan In SHOGUN?
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I believe he did and committing seppuku was his own idea to make his friend's surrender appear completely genuine.
Yes but it's an utterly ridiculous idea that accomplishes nothing. Whether Ishida believes the surrender or not changes nothing.
You’re not thinking like a Japanese samurai of the 1600s.
@@jonfreeman9682it does. He lost his general and son. He appears very weak ishido id very stupid he will let toranaga in and there he will declare crimson sky. Many will switch in favor of him while ishido will be killed.
Makes ya wonder if his brother is in
On it too
@@jonfreeman9682 You're very adamant about telling us how foolish you think these characters are behaving, while simultaneously missing the obvious. My only suggestion is to save your criticism for the end of the show; You might change your opinion.
Better than GOT, we can never expect that Hiromatsu is alive at the end or was revived because of some ancient japanese sushi magic.
It literally answers this at the end of the episode when Toranaga talks about Hiromatsu knowing his duty well and doing his part.
Yes it's implied but also nonsense. There better be a payoff that makes sense for this Queen sacrifice as he's his best general.
Tokugawa won at sekigahara because alot switched to his side. They will follow this. @@jonfreeman9682
@@jonfreeman9682hiromatsu gambit
Fr in that same episode hiromatsu literally tells the others his going to fight otherwise he wouldn’t of send the Portuguese priest back
@@jonfreeman9682Toronaga is shocked by Hiromatsu’s suicide. He probably knew Toronaga wouldn’t agree to it, so why bother asking him and just do it publicly. Toronaga also didn’t plan for Nagakado’s death. If he did kill his uncle, Toronaga’s plan wouldn’t work. Ishido would take it as an act of war. Toronaga was mostly dependent on his acting abilities to convince everyone he was surrendering. Both tragedies are his generals taking things into their own hands.
Those who know Toranaga, suspects he has a plan. Ishido, Saeki, Yabushige etc. But those who trust Toranaga, know he has a plan. Hiromatsu took a leap of faith. And like a sleeper agent, Mariko, gets activated and understood the assignment, just like that.
Absolutely agree with the two first posts. He was committed to toranaga’s plan even it meant commiting seppuku. 😢
Observing the scene carefully I felt that there was an exchange of secret messages when Thoranaga looked into Hiromatsu’s questioning eyes and blinked once in an unusual way implying his best friend that he wasn’t giving up. Right after that scene Hiromatsu brings a relieved face and the scene continues by him performing Seppuku. Maybe the director want us to understand that through facial expressions.
These feudal rituals are so mind boggling scary like hell.
Hiromatsu was pretty miserable from being sick in the novel.
Talk about a loyal follower
I think Hiromatsu knew it. For some, it was an utterly death, but it was honorable.
He might have known but it's also incredibly dumb. Hopefully there's a payoff that actually makes sense. One thing we can all agree on is the antiquated customs of the Samurai like seppuku, honor, sacrificing your general for what exactly are all nonsense even by standards back then. Not sure if this is exaggerated for TV drama but it's ludicrous.
There are hostages in osaka.
Ishido planted spy in Toranaga court, identity unknown. First sign of not surrendering or slight doubt = hostages are dead/they side with ishido
Toranaga army decimated because of the landslide, he need allies. Hostages = allies to take down ishido. But problem of a spy planted in his court
Hiromatsu sacrifice makes it look genuine to the spy, he does it to protect the hostages, so Toranaga can get them on his side by saving them from Osaka and the clutches of Ishido - which by this whole act, has zero idea Toranaga actually plans to attack from the inside. Luring to false sense of security is the oldest trick in the book.
Its not stupid. Its extremely logical and well played. The fact you cannot understand it, only shows it would work absolutely perfectly on you. Therefore its no stretch to think it would work well on Ishido or others - despite them, being aware of Toranaga being a Trickster and master of deception. Subtlety is an art, a tool and a weapon against the gullible fool that cannot see it. - it would not be subtlety if it was obvious now, was it?
..and Crimson Sky is pys op/ political play, not a military plan. Rescue the hostages and sacrifice Mariko, a Christian, martying her and swaying the Christian Regents..IRL it was the turncoating of some of Ishido's allies that made the battle of Sekigahara decisive.