What makes a good officer?
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
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One of the most common questions I get in my stream is about how I pick and deal with officers, so in this video I'll go through what I usually look for in officers.
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Interviewer: Where did you get your Business Leadership degree from
Me: Limit Max
LMAO
No kidding. This is so well done it could be a MBA course about picking your VPs at your company from a CEO perspective.
I think Craig the Warlock would make a fantastic officer.
craig was a hunter
@@meowdy.. Ofc he was...
Craig and the Warlock was both equally hated in that run. I understand the confusion LOL
I was the warlock in the video, please dont call me Craig!! My name was Cohwen, i only died once. Craig on the other hand....little bit more deaths!
poor craig haha
I can't believe you actually made a RUclips! You are literally the ONLY streamer i watch. I watch your World First Progress every second i can because i love your leadership style and raid environment. You are amazing and i can't wait to see what content you will produce! Love this video btw thank you!
I totally agree and want to add, that you are simply a great role model. Some of it may be, because your raid is generally in a good place and sets you up for success. But you also just rock man.
In my experience, the best officers have always been the ones who know their strengths and weaknesses. The worst officers are the ones who are passive. I try to avoid guilds where the core (GM/officers) know each other in real life because there is usually a couple of guys who gets some extra perks without doing any of the work.
New YT Series idea: Limit Max becomes an officer in a World 1,000 guild and tries to fix their many issues. Also, the guild is on Ragnaros so there's a language barrier.
I think the barries is just Ragnaros itself
Fkn Ragnaros hahaha
Well I know a lot of ppl from Ragnaros that are actually really good players with 10/10M and on the other hand ppl from tich, Illidan or area-52 that sucks af with shit instead of brain lol
Ragnaros have a HOF guild always xD
Ragnaros Is full of selfish players TBH.
I've been a GM, I've been an officer, I've been a class leader, I've been a raid leader and what I've realized over the years is that the only way to succeed is to have people willing to challenge you and for you to be receptive of criticism. Find people that compliment your worst skills and others that are willing to challenge your best.
Generally the idea of being a good member of a team, regardless of the role, is important imo. Especially, if you are "on the top". You are there for your guild/raid, not vice versa. And I think most of us know roughly what they like in good team members: speaking their minds, but not with a negative conotation, being proactive, trying to always understand what is going on, helping others out in raids and between raids, trying to make a contribution to the group by doing something they are good at, etc etc.
Hey max loving the videos. Could you do a video on how you use Warcraft logs to analyze a boss for advantages / disadvantages for progressing a fight?
Max you're a beast. EU gamer who recently got into a raidleading position. It's hard to catch most of your streams, but this youtube content is so good and informative.
Keep up the good work!
1:26 Max really pulled out his inner Buzz from Home Alone
ruclips.net/video/gVGbDEAnDyo/видео.html
In a past life when I was really pushing mythic raid tanking back in wod and legion days I was a tank lead, and I liked it. It allowed me to be able to tell someone they were doing it wrong, and they had to listen to me, most of the time I was right. But sometimes I think it's needed especially when you have a lot of new tanks coming into the game, sometimes they just need a little mentorship to become a great tank.
"Someone who really thinks they're better than they are". He described Preheat to a T
I'm a manager in real life as well as a former wow player and currently gm/raid leader in a FF guild.
And it's still great to see how many good insights I can get from you despite it not even being the same game and myself having "real world" experience.
Great content you've been putting out Max!
Ive had talks about this stuff with my officers and my guild and I hope hearing it from you helps reinforce the things that I've told them. I agree with almost everything you've said here. Much appreciated.
If your guildies aren't already abiding by these rules especially when you've told them thats a huge red flag.
I don’t even PVE but it’s entertaining listening to your breakdown of a different aspect of WOW
Ive never thought about it, but you just outlined 2 reasons why my former guild fell apart and half the raid team left. The promoted officer was not good in any of the three aspects you mentioned, and the guild leaders did not want to hear any opinion from anyone else and frustrations kept piling up untill 12 of us left.
You are doing one hell of a job so far with your channel.
Your video just summs up everything I basically learned so far (not just in WoW but in life itself): communication is key. No one's got a crystal ball or is a fortune teller. If you're open to criticism and feedback this should always work out. You can never know everything and there's always someone that's better at what you're doing. When you're open about that, everything works out. That's my take on it.
Great video by the way, thanks for that, Max.
Thanks for making this video - everything you talked about are all lessons that I learned *as* a business professional and brought back to WoW. Take notes, kids. These are the keys to being successful in life.
I’ve really enjoyed the videos so far! Explaining fights from a raid leading perspective is definitely lacking and getting your perspective has been super valuable. I have a couple requests for videos:
1. How you approach the planning and theory of a boss ( raid comps, strats, cool down usage, etc.). A lot of people, myself included, will watch a guide and do that thing without fully understanding the why.
2. A guide on setting up your UI to maximize awareness and raid lead more effectively. Macros, add-ons, etc.
Looking forward to the next ones!
Its amazing. These concepts are great for building good teams in the workplace, or any sort of team environment.
I've really enjoyed these videos Max well played!
If you want an interesting guild experience, back in TBC I was leader of a guild called Faithless on Boulderfist-EU (I was young) and I had 4/5 officers. I went on holiday, back then very limited internet no real way to communicate. Came back to a guild split in half. 2 officers left and had made a separate guild, claiming the others had said/done something. I had to spend 2/3 hours trying to understand what on earth had gone wrong and ended up losing the 2 that had left, even though I still considered them friends. Back then being young (Think I was 16/17) that was difficult, managed to rebuild and carry on but learnt a lot then, was interesting to hear your take of how you set the guild up now and making sure individual jobs are set.
I actually credit a lot of my skills in my professional life to the time I was leading in WoW (And warcraft 3 to some extent) while not at the forefront of the world it still gives and gave skills usable later on in life (Or not as I write this).
Great video :)!
Thank you so much for just existing bro not only for posting you inspire me as a person bro. I’m a random guy on the internet, but just know you mean a lot to me .
When I did my first internship they were surprised about how well I handled meetings and sending minutes agendas etc, I was too scared to tell them I learnt all that in Wow
i went for a job interview in a leadership roll. questions were asked about the number of people i had overseen. amongst other things i casual mentioned raid leading in wow. one of the interviewers had a gf that was an officer in a wow guild. he had seen what she had done and understood what that entailed. i believe this helped me to get the job :)
Lots of good points honestly. I feel like the best take away from this is if your going to promote some one to an officer, they should be filling a gap that you as an individual are weak at.
Very in line with my experience being a raider and an officer (long enough that I had nominated most of the other officers) in CE guilds. An officer who isn't at least respected is incapable of reinforcing the raid lead or calling them out when they're wrong. And you 100% need your officers to represent the guild well because that's who's doing the majority of the recruitment work. In my experience it was very useful having an officer be the designated person who people would send any ideas or complaints they had in order so the officer core could address it without any fear of backlash.
The way you describe how Limit works makes me feel like your officers could probably become managers in actual businesses if they worded their resume right.
Hey Max, not sure if it’s in the cards but would be awesome to hear your thoughts on building a guild from the ground up.
You probably have a totally different perspective since Limit already had a massive core from WF but you hear and see so much it would be cool to get your thoughts
Thank you for taking the time to prepare these videos, they are very informative for inside and outside of wowplace!
can't say enough good things about this series so far. thank you for putting this out there.
I think the main difference between a world first level guild and the more average guild is the interpersonal relationships that are made in small groups within the guild and how those can leave some people feeling left out of the day to day stuff.
People tend to find cliques of to do m+ or pvp with and tend to not always branch out from those unless really pushed to do so. I found in my more casual guilds that it falls on the leadership to actively encourage everyone to do things with every other person at some point to promote a guild comradery so that everyone feels included outside of raid night.
But I understand you can't necessarily force everyone to befriend everyone to that degree, especially outside of a more hardcore style progression guild where feelings being hurt from a more on hands approach is more widely expected.
Hey guys !
Thanks for what you're doing ! This is a big help to all the GM/RL and WoW Community :p
Sorry in advance for all the big text comming ! ^^
I want to bring you an issue that I experience for quite a time now which is linked with the community and the recruiting we can face (May be more general than this). I'm RL for many years now, and continuously (except 8.1.5/8.2) since 3 years now and GM for 1 year. My best experience was in Ny'alotha (10/12MM) made with a half group of PU.
My members says of me I'm a good RL and a good GM (well, not the ones that leave the guild... Of course xD).
As GM, I put the challenge as being in a guild where we can provide good progression (Would be 7/10MM in this tier) in 2d/week with this idea of still being a guild and not just a roster. We're all human beings, and we just want to share a part of our spare with each other to have fun.
And currently we are at 9HM (Denathrius 15%) and we are struggling like many guilds I see recruiting on the /2 that are at the same progress. Since 3 years I'm in a loop where I prepare the next tier, I recruit to avoir loosing the roster & the guild during this tier WHILE preparing the next one. We begin the next tier, and people just leave because of the "slow progression" (which is concretely not the best bust not bad at all) we had. And so, we're not just able to progress more because we loose dps, healers, tanks that we will have to recruit again, and bring to the level again (or - but it's rarely the case - slow their willing for progress again).
I really see the guild and the raid in WoW as an ultimate team play where the Raid-Leader is the most comitted player to the raid. But how can you face a raid tier, with people that only want progress and not guild progress ? How are we - leaders - supposed to handle that ? I know that we won't change the people and the face of the game. I also know that you don't have to deal with the issues of my guild, I'm not asking that. But as we are so many to search on this /2, I think that we're not alone and I would like to have your opinion about that : is it a bad recruiting ? Is it the leading part of the guilds ? How do you keep people that want progress inside your guild when they don't want to get involved inside a group but they need to be to have this progress ?
Finally, I see less and less people able to be Officers, or want to take responsibilities. We, RL, GM & Officer create game content, how can we create this content and work with our teams when we can't have a stable team ?
I think we could summaries that by just : can a guild be with a good progress & a good ambiance ?
Maybe you could help us & I (slightly) hope that you could help to change people's mind.
Really enjoying on the content you have been putting out the past few weeks. Great stuff. I know it will take a little while to build up a really large viewership, but please keep it up! With this good of content, the channel will grow a ton over time.
Hello Max, thank you for making these videos as I feel they are very much needed. There's very few information and/or awareness of how effective leadership in WoW looks like. Here are a few couple of ideas for content that I would like to see:
1. How a raiding guilds prepare prior the release of a new Raid.... a timeline would be very neat.
2. What makes a good raider?
3. General ground rules for raiding guilds
Thank you once again and I look forward to more content! Vlania-Drakkari
Digging these videos - great niche that's gone unfilled for a long time, and relevant to most every level of play, not just the higher levels!
I think it would be an interesting video to find Craig again and make him into a model citizen, Cause thats what being a better person is about.
This is the content we needed. Thank you so much Max.
you just dropped the knowledge i was sceptical about your content but seems like you are an awesome guy with some great insight
Been loving all the youtube content, keep it up
Finding great officers is probably the single most important thing a GM can do. You nailed one thing that really bugs me about the corporate world- I don’t want yes men (or women). I’m confident enough in myself and my own decisions that I don’t need need validation. I need challenge, because that will make for better outcomes.
More than that; good officers should compliment your skill set as GM/RL. I have one officer who is a wizard at the AH and making gold- so he’s in charge of our finances and guild bank.
The one job I’ve always had a difficult time nailing down for any significant stretch of time is recruiting. It’s such a huge time sink, and can be quite demoralizing trying to find the right person. So recruiting duties are shared amongst all officers- everyone is expected to be on the lookout at all times.
Ya recruiting is hard i've always been lucky to have officers and raiders that are good at that. Especially at this level because there is no app, only referrals from other good players
I love these vids man and the raid leading walkthroughs as well. Great stuff!
I love that the higher guilds start to rank, the more 'corporate' they become... PR, HR, Leadership structure, channels for criticism, performance based recognition. Lovely
More organization = more success, who knew?
When he says lower ranked guilds literally referring to every guild in the world lol 🤣
I feel like I’ve seen this comment on every single one of his videos
When you think about it, half the guilds in the world perform better than average.
really enjoying your videos lately! keep them coming!!!
I was just made an officer in my guild about 9 hours ago, and this is the first video RUclips recommends this morning. Makes you wonder how deep the info tracking goes...
Love the videos Max, some very helpful insights. Would love to see some recruitment/roster based videos
To all people aspiring to be good leaders, but not only in game - read Creativity Inc. It's a book written by
Edwin Catmull, and it's his story from beginning of Pixar till now. It's a great book to help you understand about basics of true good leadership, a lot of stuff Max said in his video are covered in this book. Well, even if you don't want to lead, it is still a great book to read :D
Fantastic video bro. It's refreshing to have a new perspective on this topic
Amazing content! What I would really like to see is how in general mythic guilds do recruitment and what a normal player would have to do to successfully start mythic raiding. :)
Best thing to do if you want to get into raiding is just apply! If you're already an AOTC raider, apply to some lower tier Mythic guilds (3ish/10 Mythic) and prog with them for a few tiers. If you feel like you're getting the hang of it and you still want to move up, start applying to higher end guilds.
If you're not an AOTC raider yet and you're just getting into the raiding scene, there's a tooooooooooon of AOTC only guilds that will gladly recruit you and teach you the ropes. Just don't become a guild hopper!
What can i say to this.
"LETS FUCKING GOOOO DOOOOOOD" - max 2021
Very good videos man! Also very helpful for people pushing their careers to a next level ;)
I don't know how much this fit in here, but one thing i got taught during my teacher education is that you can only say "i don't know" three times each lecture. In other words... Know your shit or lose your authority
This is a great general leadership course, this applies to life.
"it's possible in a lower ranked guild that I don't have experience with" okok @Limit Maximum we see you
I have experiences in classic and retail about weird situations... In classic, I was a class lead which was a peg below officer. I was well-liked in the guild, knew what I was doing, etc. We changed this role to be more of a in-between for officers and the rest of the guild. We were getting to a point where we were slacking off hard, losing people and having issues filling slots and the criticism I had for the officer core was basically "if we want to recruit good players, then we need leadership to put in the effort to ensure our raids run more efficient, smoother, etc." We would lose a good warrior/rogue every other month to a better guild, to the point where we had 10 good players left in the guild and 30 meh players. In AQ, we were over double the server average time to clear the raid (5 hours across 2 raid nights), and most people wanted to clear in a single night. We were disorganized, there were times we waited 10 minutes before we started pulling the next set of trash, etc. I basically told the leadership that I was leaving and the reason for that was there was no attempts at making the raid more efficient with everyone's time (after 3 weeks of no improvement and officers just saying the same stuff over and over, basically dismissing what I was saying). One officer/raid lead (who didn't really raid lead) went to my new guild officers and tried to get me kicked for multiple reasons. I was a bit sad to see the guild that went from middle of the pack (on the server) to near bottom and complain that we couldn't recruit better players. The officers in my current guild are usually very open to discussion, provided you DM them after raid.
Over in retail, I find that lower tier guilds around the AotC-only or 1-2 M bosses group will usually just promote the inner clique to officers rather than people who would make good officers. The guild I just left had removed an officer from the guild because they apparently started an affair with another guild member and blackmailed them as an officer. Was wild. The other thing that some officers do at this level of play is super basic log work. I'm in a guild that hopes to push CE this tier now, but when I joined I had talked with one of the officers that I was not getting the healing I needed to survive vs the other tank and he linked me overall healing numbers that had both him and I around the same %. When I went to my class discord to figure out if I was squishy (I had never really been called a squishy tank before), they basically unearthed issued like the other tank using his mitigation (fel dev, spikes, meta) during periods where he wasn't even tanking the boss or adds. The other tank also never used fiery brand properly either, etc. That tank then left and we've been trialing tanks for a few weeks, but I haven't had any issues with survival since he left.
Side note: I went through 7 guilds in BFA between Uldir and the end of BoD mostly due to people quitting from burnout, slow prog, lack of leadership. I think a lot of guilds stepping into mythic or getting up to 8/9 as the tier closes (using my BoD exp as an example) underestimate the amount of work they have to do outside of raid hours to ensure the raid hours are efficient. Out of those 7 guilds, only 1 guild had really shitty officers vs officers that just needed more experience. I think there's something every raider can do to help out the officers with managing stuff.
Having an officer or trusted player who can read each of the role's raid logs properly is incredibly important imo. It can be frustrating and tedious to do, but it's the best way to identify issues before it becomes unmanageable.
I've recently been promoted to raid lead this tier. I'm frustrated with most of my guilds play. I'm consistantly beating 7 dps as a vengeance demon hunter on sire denathrius. And they dont listen to my calls. If we're about to get a massacre or hand of destruction I tell them to stop hitting adds and they refuse to listen and its a wipe every time. I'm giving them the rest of this raid week to perform how I expect or I'm just gonna cut them from the roster and find replacements. Some other officers dont agree, but I dont want to struggle anymore and I guess I'm asking how can I minimize backlash from other players and officers or should I just let it ride and have things play out. Or is this not how I should handle things? You're help would be appreciated, Max, and your videos are amazing! Keep up the good work!
I guess this is a typical "it depends" thing. At first you would have to figure out, what the problems of certain players are regarding playing mechanics, listening to calls, whatsoever. After that you would have to figure out, if you can fix that. If yes: great. If not, you would have to figure out, whose fault it is: Is it your incapablity as a raidlead, or their incapability as a player. After that you would have to figure out with the rest of your guildleading staff, what to do with those players: If the other officers of your guild are unhappy about benching/replacing people, but it's too frustrating for you to lead them, and you can't change anything about it, then you gotta ask yourself, if you and your guild are aiming for the same targets, and if you can adjust your targets, or if you move on to another guild, that fits your ambitions more.
Have to aggree with the others, if you want to kick 30% of your roster it's one or a combination of these 3 factors:
1. You actually are bad at raid leading and directing people, you just think you are good.
2.Your goals and the guilds goals are different, to give a concrete example maybe you expect everyone in the guild to parse 98%+ always but the scope of the guild is for players to parse 90%+ , obviouslly you have different expactations so that will never work, that is not those players fault it is yours for not understaning what type of guild you are in.
3. Social skills , you had conflicts or no social interation with the other members of your guild and therefore they got 0 respect for you. Respect is not given it is earned in reality and in the game(and guess what different ppl respect different qualities but nobody respects a `random person shouting at them`), you can have a trillion dolars idea if you can't convince ppl to be on your side and implement it, it's worthless.
Solution: Speak with the GM and other officers
1. Make sure you actually want the same thing for the guild/raid, if yes :
a)ask them for feedback of your raidleading
b) ask them why do they think others ignore your calls if it's not apperent from point a) responses
c) if no negative feedback, and you all aggre to improuve the roster than recruit first and kick later
2.If no:
a) ask to be demoted and just play your class and have fun
b) leave the guild and find something more suitable for your targets
Good luck.
@@lasttone10 I could have made it more clear, I want to kick the 7 players who I've personally geared to 213+ and they do 1.7k dps MAX all under 12% parses. Maybe I'm not a good raid leader, like I said first tier ever leading in any form in WoW, but I have talked about the negligence of raiders with the old raid lead (who's the GM) and he said that's why he stepped down to just play the game because he didn't wanna hear himself talk and them not listening.
@@lasttone10 I guess I ask now. How would I get better at raid leading?
I ended up kicking a few players and replacing them tonight after about 2 hours of raiding. spent the last hour re progressing with a few new people and ended up killing Denathrius. The people who were lobbed were extremely upset, but hey I guess that's how it goes. I'll probably have to deal with that some time tomorrow or next raid day.
I've been leading a smaller guild that's comprised of both Heroic-minded players and Mythic-minded players, and finding Officers has always been a tricky subject. I've had screaming matches with one of my officers before, but at the end of the day we come together and see each other's viewpoint, and even though I'm usually right, I very much appreciate his input and non-conforming views. It forces me to really think about my stance on a subject and really come up with a good reason for that stance, forcing me to improve as a leader.
Watching the Race to World First this tier really showed me what a great GM/Raid Lead looks like. There's still a lot to learn for me, but having your knowledge at hand certainly helps. Thanks for this video, this will be incredibly helpful when I start planning for our roster in 9.1 and finding a new raid leader as mine is stepping down after 3 solid tiers of leadership.
One thing I noticed is that a guild needs a peacemaker. This is a job where, when people want to start yelling or sniping at each other, the peacemaker steps up and will say "Ok, who farted?" or "Hey, anyone know how I got this big dragon footprint in my back?" Something to diffuse the situation. The guild leader is busy trying to hold things together and reason with the two parties (or, they're part of the ...ahem...discussion) so the peacemaker has to try to elevate the discussion and pull off the tension. Yes, they may not be the raid "clown" but they are dedicated to making sure everyone gets something out of the raid experience, and no one likes those times when tempers flare. I'm that person for the guild I'm in. It's not an official officer designation but it's one I have stepped up to do when necessary. I think, in my case, it's because I am the "official guild granny" (literally, I'm a grandmother of 9) and people will listen to me when I try to fix, change, or just calm down the group.
Raiding is an intensive, sometimes very stressful situation. Someone to keep it light and fun is a big necessity, IMO/YMMD.
Number 2 exists for every guild honestly speaking, you really need to know that they won't smear your reputation by throwing slurs in trade chat or ragequitting prematurely in keys and stuff, because that often factors in when it comes time to recruit more players, and one undiplomatic officer can tank a guild if you're middle of the pack.
This is an amazing video for leadership in general
@maximum - can we have updated versions of these videos to see how your experiences and thoughts have changed? :)
Appreciate you doing these videos.
Glad you like them!
This guy is actually insane.
I supported Echo during the RWF, but it's impossible not to like Max.
In your class buffs video you talked about some classes being good at certain scenarios. A video on classes and what they all are good at from someone with a lot of knowledge on the subject would be cool.
You should always yell at everyone for everything without thinking first.
Video is super interesting to me because I'm in the position of needing to promote someone since one of my officers is taking a step back from wow and I could do with a replacement to add their opinion and cover some of his admin responsibilities, but it can be so difficult working out who to ask! We have alot of a players commited enough for it but Its all about finding the right balance of someone who isn't going to cause personality clashes elsewhere in my guild, someone who has the skills and respect I need and someone who I think has a good perspective
get together with the other officers and see what their opinions on the issue might be. just because you are the gm doesn’t mean you have to go through the whole thing by yourself
Very good points. Bookmarking for later referencing :)
I've been a class lead before, there are some nice theories as to how it can benefit a raid/guild but ultimately what i found is that everything that it theoretically helps with, should be happening anyway in a healthy progression guild focused on constantly improving (no matter what level you are currently playing at), and if you need the role to make it happen, it probably won't actually help because the problem you are trying to solve is not the problem you actually have.
You are trying to solve, "why is it you and bobby usually do really well but jimmy and mike who play the same class as you are disasters", also we need somebody to micro assignments your class need to do from raid to raid. Interestingly I found point B was usually of far less concern than point A even though when you think about it for longer than 10 seconds point B is far more important than point A.
What happens is you quickly find you Jimmy and Mike either don't care, or aren't capable of understanding and don't really care. If they cared they would have already asked regardless of a "class lead" existing or not. As for assignments, you just end up giving Jimmy and Mike as little to do as possible, since they don't really care and don't really understand. Sounds harsh but when i was a class lead that's what i found, i was nice, approachable, sifted through every log, explained things over and over again, was encouraging, but right from the start the feedback was "yea i get it but I don't really care about doing more dps i just raid for fun" or "i don't understand but does it really matter? Can't we just do it with me doing what im already doing". Even when i forced them to do hard things they were avoiding, and encouraged them that I expected mistakes, mistakes are fine, I don't care if you wipe the raid by fking it up, you might need to fk it up a few times before you get it, that's fine, they'd fk it up once, refuse to try again and then not show up next week. Which interestingly did solve point A just not in the intended way.
All i ended up doing was making myself and the other good players of my class in the guild better, with them, cuz we spoke a lot more, but in a healthy progression minded guild we should have been doing that anyway and ultimately Jimmy and Mike were their own problem because they were in a guild that wanted to constantly improve but had the attitude of thats great ill just wait for you to solve the problems and take some loot along the road and have a good time.
So while in theory a class lead can be nice, in a healthy guild it should be happening anyway with out the need for people to have the badge on. I imagine in a guild like Limit it would almost always be totally redundant 99.9% of the time because you don't need to talk to your players about basic dps rotations or what their tank externals are and how they might need to use them sometimes to solve tricky healing problems (and how they don't always need to put them on the tank).
Totally, we don't have class leads in my guild because they don't make sense for mythic.
And of I ever see someone using the wrong talents I will note it down to see if it happens a lot. You should have swapped your aoe talents on your own I can not micro manage that for every raider. That is your job optimize yourself and find it fun or interesting to do so.
The only role lead I've ever found a need for is to have one to coordinate all the healers assuming the raid lead isn't a healer themselves. Because healing is so different from tanking or dps'ing you need someone who understands the role completely to coordinate it or you'll have trouble.
@@Absynnian I found this out the hard way having htt's only be 50% effective.
But still the rl needs to have an idea about otherwise they can't strategize together on how to get a good kill.
Hi Max, love the videos. How do you deal with cliques in your guild, or how have you done it in the past? Had a situation in my guild that got way out of hand and pretty much destroyed the guild from the inside. I was trying to resolve the situation but it felt hopeless.
It is super simple EVERYONE needs to be kind and inclusive. For some reason the 5 founding members (usually starting as friends who wanted to create a guild) see everyone as an outsider and treat them as such. People need to not look at it with an immature mindset like it's high school. If you see people showing those behaviors you simply need to stand up to it or it will lead to members getting ostracized and leaving the guild, can't sustain members and the guild will fall apart.
@@ganstaeddie7 Yeah, ideally you wanna prevent it from happening in the first place. But dealing with it after the fact wasn't so simple,
In my experience, cliques are a ticking time bomb for a raid roster. When a raid team fractures it will almost always be along those fault lines, so it's vital that the guild environment is conducive to everyone working together easily. I, in general always avoid recruiting groups of people because it has literally never not backfired on me down the line because it's pretty much a guaranteed clique from the start. I don't have a foolproof way to deal with cliques that already exist unfortunately, but as long as you fix the overall causes of formation you'll survive the fracturing without too much trouble.
I like to think I'm a good officer. I know I'm not the best player. I know there are lots of things I can improve on. I try to mostly shut up during raid but when thing get tough, the night is dragging on and people are obviously feeling like this is not working I like to say words of encouragement and it seems to work.
Hey Max - thought I'd pitch in on what a "class lead / role lead" is supposed to do. The idea is that those are the "go-to" guys for the class/spec. They'll do all the research on best talents for each encounter, BiS items for each patch, general patch notes review, simming and propose cooldown timings for each boss to deliver maximum value. They will also help with recruitment, screening and trialling members of their class, review logs and work with people who want/need to improve their game. It's a lot easier than it used to be to find out that information yourself with guides and videos, but back when those roles were more common (I'm talking BC era), you had to stalk forums and do a lot of theorycrafting on your own - these days I'd say they are a bit of relic and just an excuse to promote someone to an officer position.
All this probably seems quite bizarre to you (like, why wouldn't you want to do all that stuff yourself, anyway?) and the answer usually comes down to time commitment. How much time as an individual player are you willing to invest to squeeze out that x% extra damage, versus how much it's actually needed. The reason it's more common in lower ranked guilds is because in those communities people play more casually, don't need to play as efficiently, and the situations where it actually matters are encountered so rarely that it's often not worth bothering - there's usually some other major thing holding back progression, like attendance or issues with mechanics - but you do want your raid prepared should it ever be a problem. You just don't need everyone doing the research as it can be delegated to one person, keeping your more casual players on the same footing as your most dedicated.
In your other videos you talk about how a great Raid Leader allows the individual players to focus on their own game, because they take responsibility for the coordination of the group and make everyone's life easier so they can focus on healing, damage or tanking. In a sense the class leaders do the same thing, but it also affects stuff outside the raid, like how to gear and build your character and what to target farm and so on. I hope that all makes sense.
Thought I'd give my 2c. Loving these videos, they're a great help to me as a new guild leader and I think your mindset is really healthy. We're gonna skip Cutting Edge this tier because it's waaay too easy and just go for AotC because that's what all the real gamers are getting :). If you read this I hope you wish us luck for Denathrius on Wednesday. Fingers crossed.
Good luck for the next World First!
How to be a good guild officer made simple: 1. Ensure you get all the good loot in raids, message the GM if need be. If he/she doesn’t give it to you then leave the guild. Officers come first. 2. You’re always right. You’re an officer, if they don’t like it, /kick always solves most problems...easy day.
I'm an officer in a lower ranked CE guild, and we definitely had a need for role leads.
We had 3 officers at the time of making this change, but when players are less skilled it takes far more attention to get them to a level where you can kill mythic bosses. I was focused on recruiting, which left two people, one of which was the raid lead, to manage 20-25 players. Adding three role leads, (range, melee, healer) has saved us a ton of headache. I can see how this would be overkill when your players have already mastered their class and role, you really only need mechanical coaching at that point. We certainly do not have that.
But what do these role leads actually do?
@@GoldenMechaTiger I don't know about other guilds, but for my guild role leads are in charge of getting with specific raiders inside that role and helping them improve. When you aren't at the top there isn't a guarantee that your raiders are playing their class at 100%. Instead of one singular raid leader having to understand every class and spec at a high level and then getting with each player individually, this role is divided up among role leads.
Especially when you are playing alliance, there just isn't this large crop of mythic ready players to recruit, you have to develop players. Having more people in charge of doing that takes pressure off of a raid leader.
I do my best to be inbetween as a player. If I have concerns then I voice them to ensure that it's not solely on the officers to decide things for our guild but I'm also quiet during raid, mainly because I don't see it as my responsibility to give suggestions. I however prefer a more quiet approach and so most of my discussions with my guilds' leadership team happen privately.
The best method in my experience is to have a designated "HR" officer to whom everyone can send in ideas or complaints to be presented to the officer core without any fear of backlash. Has to be somebody well respected and trusted by the majority of the raid, but it will save so much trouble in the long run because alot of the time people won't bring it up to the officers without having that shield.
@@Absynnian We have an officer like that however I'm closer with the "healing lead" which is technically his role but anyways. I just say what I think to the healing lead as I know that if he thinks I'm wrong then he'll tell me, which is kind of what I'm looking for. Or vice versa, I can give my opinion to him and I know that he will take that into account. The other officer is much more friendly and whatnot but when I have an idea I look for some sort of discussion because my thoughts may be wrong.
Interesting to hear that coming up with good guild officers is a very similar process to real life promotions, or it very well should be :)
Hey man, loving all the videos so far. I'm a returning player to Shadowlands and have completed my first LFR the other week (it was awesome) but would love to be more 'hardcore'. Compared to previous expansions, what are the time commitments that you'd expect from a competitive raider? And, aside from time, what else is considered the 'bare minimum' to be competitive? Many alts? Maxed profs? Thanks!
I think class leads are more of a classic thing With the size of the raids. maybe nostalgia. I've always ended up being a class lead in major guilds i've played with but i wouldn't want to do more than that. I don't see myself as a leader but I enjoy the game and I guess people relate to me.
This is really good stuff! Please keep it up!
In a lower ranking guild i feel like class and role leads are good because the lead isnt the best at every class but they know enough to help newer players learn their class/role and become a better player for example i was a tank lead since i play every tank at a mythic raid and high key level so when people want to try out those classes they typically look for help and in most cases icyveins/wowhead gives a general build for the average player hence the “easy mode” build whereas tinkering with stats and trying to minmax could result in different builds i could see in a high end guild though people are expected to know there stuff so its not really necessary but yeah its definitely to more so help newer people step out of their comfort zone
The whole Role Lead thing is important in lower guilds because you have officers who have never played and never want to play particular roles.
Say your GM and your raid lead only ever play Hunter and Shadow Priest. They're going to say and do a lot of bonehead shit to the melee that just makes no sense because they just don't know.
The role leads are there to be the advocates of their subgroup in the raid, so that certain people aren't getting shit on over and over.
Max can u make a video of recruitment?I mean what should we looking for when we are recruting, what is the Best way to do it, and how we should aproach to ppl that we wanna recruit. I think that would be some main topics.
Having done a ton of recruitment for rosters, the methodology you use is going to depend on how hard you're pushing. Personally I wouldn't try to poach people from other teams/guilds unless they're actively seeking a new home. Learn how to read raid logs, or at least have someone who knows how to do so look over them. If it's a role or spec you just know nothing about don't be afraid to tell the person you're looking to recruit that you're having someone who does look over their performances. For the interview itself, it really depends on the vibe of the guild. Personally, I would just talked with the person for 30-45 minutes and try to see how well they fit the overall feeling of the guild. And don't be afraid to take a risk on someone who may seem unqualified if they work hard and are a good fit for the team. Dedicated people who get along well with the existing team are usually more effective in the long run and they stick around when things get rough. Lastly, have clearly set trial rules and durations. Longer trial periods will give you time to see how they play once they've settled in with the guild, and selectively enforcing the rules will always end badly.
Please do a follow-up video! Your video really helped me decide how I want to proceed with my own guild. :)
I think the biggest thing you miss out from Limit is that you came from a collection of the best players, and you attract the best players. This is why things like seniority, which is in many cases loyalty, mean less to you. If you were starting at a lower level, you need to build skills to retain talent, or else they will just go to the leaders when possible, and you need to learn to grow people who have potential but aren't at the top of their game.
You talk about business, and if you were to try to transition these skills to a business endeavor, there's a big chance that you wouldn't be able to start out by attracting top talent with the promise of being the best. There's too many impediments to that. It's hard to bring a product to market in an established space, you'll run into leaders using the legal system to keep you from competing directly, if you want to hire the best, you'd need to pay them well and where are you getting the money from? How do you deliver on the promise of being the best? I see this in game companies too, talent will split off to start up an indie studio, and they often don't really succeed in the same way. This is a bit of a failure on two sides, on one side, the studio they split from failed to show value to them to retain them. On the new studio's side, they will have a hard time being immediately successful. Those who are successful do so because they built a culture that these people want to be in, even when they're not market leaders, and that gives them the stability to bring their product to market, and EVEN THEN, rarely is it a dominating market success.
Limit took top players and made a supergroup and then started performing well. In business this rarely happens, not quickly. Certainly these groups do split off, but they don't perform right away. They develop. And maybe they have the potential to be better than the leaders, but this takes time. In WoW you don't really need to build capital, secure financing, deal with legal issues and break into an established market. Once you have the people, you just need to perform. This means you're spending a lot of time not being the best, and somehow finding a way to have your best people be OK with that and get better, and find better people, and work towards that accomplishment. It's different to stay at the top than get to the top, and whether or not it's easier, it certainly takes different skills.
But in all circumstances you can't let ego shield you from growth. You need to be able to challenge your assumptions, and integrate good ideas even if they aren't from you.
I don't think he is saying that loyalty isn't important at all by saying seniority doesn't matter. I still think this explains the concept of how loyalty works in business and translates into guild management for long term goals ruclips.net/video/ljLlpOAGRsQ/видео.html
Really good video! Thanks Max !
I’m new to guild leading and have a new guild we are working toward getting into mythic raiding as we didn’t have a full 20 players my question to you is how do you handle having players that are really good but struggle remaining calm when people make mistakes and get them engaged in helping those players improve?
I would remove them from the guild. Its a video game. The fact that they are getting upset while not even doing competitive raiding is ridiculous. However even Limit the current number 1 guild doesnt have people freaking out when they are struggling. Players like that are just toxic and will rot your guild.
You will always encounter toxic players, and unfortunately they become more common as you become higher ranked. Past a certain point it's much less of an issue because the overall tolerance towards that behavior at that level is next to nothing. You do however need to be ready to make the call on if someone is too toxic or if they just aren't performing at the ability necessary for the content you're doing or the roster attrition will become too big of an issue for you to continue. So if one or two people are the root cause of most of the complaints and toxicity just cut them and be done with it regardless of why they're the problem.
i’m definitely guilty of getting angry when people make stupid mistakes but I don’t openly flame people in chat. with players like you described it’s a fundamental issue. they know they are really good players and they expect everyone else to perform to their standards, regardless of the situation. so when they see the mistake happen, they don’t see the chance to correct it and improve future attempts, they only see the immediate downside and that’s all. regardless; toxic players with big egos will eventually rip damn near any guild apart.
This is life advice.
I’m the raid lead of a guild who’s core members are real life friends. What do I do, or rather how do I go about addressing issues with raid members who are real life friends with the GM and the officers? Low dps, poor mechanics, overall poor performance, etc.
The first and most important thing you have to ask yourself is how important is this guild to you? Because the easiest answer is to start looking for a new guild imo. However, if you want to go the harder route of making this guild all it can be, the first thing to do is talk to the gm and make sure he is on the same page and will back your play. If he does, start pulling people aside and discussing the issues and bench as necessary. If the gm cares more about his friends than the guild's progress, then your hands are tied and you have to ask yourself if it's worth it in your mind to stay.
Exactly what I always tell people. A guild isn’t a permanent choice you’re married to. It’s always important to ensure the guilds goals are in line with your goals.
There's virtually nothing you can do, tbh.
First step to solving you issue is to understand that world of warcraft is the actual real life.
Talk with the GM and officers and be clear that you need to be able to make the final call on the roster or that it's time for you to move on to another guild. Raiding is a team sport, it's not fair to the people who actually care to carry someone's IRL friends for nothing.
Imagine not having notifications on >.> Luv the content
Limit Max visits struggling, disfunctional guilds across America and spends a week trying to help them become successful. #GuildfromHell
how do we decide who guild chef should be? the guy who's really good at making tacos or always has pizza rolls and chickie nuggies going
One of the warlocks, since they're always making cookies.
Keep up the amazing work! I just started raid leading this expansion and it’s a very daunting task. I love the content you’re putting out though and hope it’ll better my guilds progress! I have to ask, what role would you recommend for a raid lead? I’m currently playing elemental shaman and am the top DPS in my raids, but when I start diverting attention to call outs my DPS suffers drastically. Should I try a more mindless DPS class? Or should I just embrace the loss of DPS and move along? Thanks!
I've seen all three roles be raid lead successfully, however the raid lead almost always sees a performance loss unless you are able to delegate stuff to your officers and trusted players to call out. Ideally you should be the big picture guy, while you have the people you trust making the minute adjustments.
Please explain what a healing lead should be doing. And how cool down assignments work in your guild and the different ways you think is best for assignments. Like how strict and when do you lay down the law about it?
I have a holy priest on the team who “needs” to do two salv. But I’m like you can have how ever many salv you possible as long as you cast salv at 5:00 for X mechanic. But sometimes it’s not up and I don’t know how to make them just hold it the whole time.
Good insights!
In what way was the demoted officer not a good public representative? Not communicating well with the guild, or with external?
I have been an officer for quite a few guilds and I have come to realize that it is nice to be respected, but having to deal with all the problems of the guild is tiring. It might just be low level guilds, but the drama between raiders gets intense when you aren't progressing at the preferred speed.
That's because WoW is full of bads that think they're amazing at the game.
I would love if you'd be able to cover officers and guild mergers. I taken the same stance as other top 100 friends that they are simply never a good idea and don't work (no can't, just don't). I'd love to hear your take on it!
Agreed, mergers and group recruitment always backfires in my experience. It guarantees cliques forming which is where the team will break at.
really callin out preheat there
6:45
I don't know...didn't seem like it to me. For anyone who knows about the situation already they know what he's referring to but otherwise we'd have very little idea.
Disagree, it was obvious who Max meant to people who follow that kind of thing, for sure. However, he didn't say Preheat was a bad officer or a bad guy, but he failed to meet a standard he sets for his officers, and he acted accordingly. At the time Max essentially said the same thing publicly, that Preheat had fallen below the standard he sets, so he was demoted to raider.
Finally, if Preheat accepted that decision, and he obviously did, why are you complaining?
@@superkaylo Not complaining at all. Just saying max didn't call out preheat by name.
@@TPGReddo I was replying to the OP, thought I'd tagged him but mustn't have
hey, I'm a new GM and I'm curious about what each of those officer jobs involve. You mentioned splits, player management, etc. What responsibilities do each of those things involve?
Hey max could u go over your ui, and also how to use flag markers with key binds?
Good video, I'll post about the situation of the guild I'm currently in. Don't think it's a bad situation at all, but could be better.
Guild is basically comprised of people who met in Classic and wanted to push retail Mythic raiding, and people who previously played retail with the Classic people but never played Classic. The GM and raid lead is really trying hard, posting strategies for each boss every week, reviewing logs, recruiting out of his mind, trying to make this guild work for it's the first time he has created his own guild. Previously he was an officer in the Classic guild we were in dealing mostly with recruiting and roster building, but wasn't the raid lead or GM. Our Mythic raids can be a little chaotic at times, with a lot of different people speaking up to try and lead us through fights. However, our officer core is comprised of 3 people. The GM, one of the tanks, and a dps player. The DPS player, I would say, is one of the people who thinks they are better than they really are. Low DPS, average performance on mechanics, etc. He also recently has had low raid attendance, and doesn't really do any officer-like duties to my knowledge. The GM and the tank are the ones discussing a lot of our strategy. Overall I like the guild and enjoy the people I play with, but am a little concerned with what the future may hold. We're currently 3/10 Mythic but it was pretty rough getting there, any advice for our guild is welcome.
Hey !
I'm not sure to be the best one to answer but i'll try.
First raiding is about getting everyone walking in the same direction (I think about Classic & retail differences mainly), if they all want that you have the first piece.
Secondly, we are in February : a patch lasts in general for 4 to 5 months (Can be more) and with the overall situation, I think we could say that the next patch is in 2 or 3 months. So you still have time. (Just you have to keep people, which is hard right now ahem...)
Thirdly : help your leaders and bring them information, if you think that something is not good say it. How many times have I experienced a player leaving and saying all the things that were wrong not before that. Communication, just that.
As GM, I don't see many player getting out of the mass, wanting and ready to be officers. Maybe it's your time ? And if you don't want to, no problem, don't be.
You need to team work : don't let the GM & RL do all the recruitment, the logs review etc. Of course they have to know what you're doing and what you've done, but being 2 to do all the "administrative" part of a guild is not enough, especially when you have skill differences.
And try to find why the last officer is officer ;)
Hey dude I've been watching your raid leading/officer videos and there is some great advice in there. Me and some friends are looking to start up a guild to form a raid team as the pug life just aint as rewarding, I'd massively appreciate some tips on efficiently starting a team from scratch to be able to progress raid mythic? Thanks again for your current videos.
Not sure how I got here but, SUBSCRIBED!!
I was wondering if you could make a video about how to raidlead and the preparation for it? I'm an officer + managing the healer team but lately I've been struggeling calling things out during the fight. I do however not write much down and just call it during the fight. I know writing it down will make it better but anything else I can work on?