WINCHESTER 70 ‘PRE-‘64’: what’s the BIG deal?
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- For years I’ve heard that if you wanted to get a Winchester model 70, you needed one built before 1964. I’m sure a lot of you have heard the same thing. Why is that? What happened at the end of 1963 that made such big differences?
Today we’re going to visit some of those differences. Will take a close look at the bolt, the action, and other features that changed in 1964 and going forward.
I had my uncles pre 64 Winchester in 270. Last year I returned it to my cousin, his daughter who has given it to her now adult son. He’s a Hunter and I’m not and I’m in my 70s. It made sense to keep it in the family. The rifle had a four digit serial number. It’s already taken another deer, my nephews first. It felt great to pass it on in the family.
My uncle just handed down down an M-70 270 to me that was constructed in 1952. It belonged to my grandfather. My friend cleaned and inspected it yesterday, and told me that I got one helluva rifle. This is the first rifle I have ever owned, and I am looking forward to using it this fall for hunting. Thanks for your video, and introducing me to the intricacies of this beautifully hand-crafted firearm.
Christopher Sanderson I’d love to have a pre-64 in 270. You do have a fine rifle
I have a 1957 Model 70 in .270 I'm going to see if I can improve accuracy by torquing the screws properly. she already shoots moa. She belonged to an old man who probably killed more deer with it than I have seen, plus a few elk. He also had a 1960 model 70 in 30-06. The 270 is pretty worn looking, but the 30-06 looked brand new. He gave my dad the 270, who passed it on to me for my 35th birthday. Best birthday present ever!
I just saw your posting now, I inherited the exact rifle; have you improved the MOA since?
We have the same story here with our old Sauer rifles in Germany. The old Model 80´s and 90´s were so well made Sauer started to scratch their heads as to how they could make them cheaper an´ still make more profit. But the Grand Daddy of them all is that Mauser system. When I got an Argentine Mauser from 1909 the tolerances on the bolt and receiver / chamber were just phenomenal! Turns out Mauser hired hundreds of unskilled laborers from the outlands to spend days using grinding paste to finish those systems in pre-WW I Berlin...opening and closing each of them THOUSANDS of times to get that special fit without the new-fangled clickety-clack. Those were the old days!
I always loved the ejector on the Pre-64 Model 70; you could either fling the brass 20 yards or extract it gently into your hand, depending on how fast you pull back the bolt.
I just picked one up in 30-06. 1959 model 70 for $900.00. It was love at first sight.
I have one of the new FN owned and Manufactured Winchester model 70's. They went back to the Control Round Feed action of the Pre-64. The only gripe I have with them is they are not US made, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. I believe their components are Belgian made and they are assembled in Portugal. FN has a long history and tradition of building Mauser 98 sporting rifles. FN also produces firearms for the the US military. Those FN 98 Mauser sporting rifles are every bit of fine rifle as a pre-64 Winchester 70. I don't mind it too much that FN builds Winchester model 70 rifles. I think having them foreign made and CNC machined keeps the cost competitive and somewhat affordable. They are every bit as accurate as a Tikka, Savage 110 or Remington 700. Today's Winchester model 70's don't have iron sights built into them, unless you get the Alaskan or Safari model. I'd like to see Winchester bring back some of those classic calibers, such as the 7x57mm Mauser, .257 Roberts and .300 H&H. Also incorporate iron sights in a classic model. I'll admit Im a Winchester model 70 fan boy lol! I would like to add a true pre-64 Winchester model 70 in my collection.
@Ван Гвардия 35Whelen, .338-06 and the 6.5-06 would be nice also.
If they are anywhere near as well built as the Japanese Miroku model 92 I've handled I'm sure they are very good.
Absolutely correct, controlled round and the goodies from the pre 64 was brought back many years ago. You really cant go wrong with one of these.
The super grade is glass beaded and free floated, not done on the pre 64's
One of the better videos I’ve watched, thank you.
I love the grain pattern on your rifle. Beautiful. Your rifle is a work of art.
What a fine piece of steel.
I'm old enough to remember the anger and disgust when the "new" Winchesters were introduced to the market. Gun stores had both models at the time and I managed to hold them. I had experience with my father's Model 70. Comparing the old and the new, next to each other was illuminating. The '64 models felt cheap and looked ugly. That seemed to be the consensus, at least among my acquaintances at the time. This was true for the Model 94, as well.
I was told that Winchester was losing money on the Model 70 and the 94. A new CEO made changes to the manufacturing process to save cost to the company. He blew it. He could have raised the price of the Model 70 and introduced a budget version to appeal to buyers who didn't appreciate the quality of the Model 70. Instead, Winchester's reputation was permanently soiled.
Agreed there is/was a significant change.
My grandfather himself warned me years ago to watch for ones pre-64 if I ever wanted to get one.
Now I see why. He gave me two model 94’s. A 30/30 and 32 Win SPL. The 32 SPL was manufactured after 64. It is clearly not quality standard. The blueing flaked off and the screws came out easily. The one I have in particular is missing the left cartridge guide for some reason. It shoots one round at a time until I get it fixed. Junk as far as Im concerned.
My 30/30 is a work of art and one of my favorites and will be passed down.
I'm also old enough to remember this era. Winchester couldn't have raised prices. The Model 70 already cost $30 more than the Remington 700 and $50 more than the Savage 110. The sales figures tell the tale. Winchester made less than 700,000 pre-64 Model 70s. Remington and Savage made millions of their rifles. It was the gun writers rather than the public who made a stink about the change. The public gladly bought cheap push-feed rifles with impressed checkering from Remington and Savage. The Remington 788 was even cheaper and didn't have checkering at all. Remington sold 565,000 of them in just 16 years. The post-64 Model 70 has gotten a bad rap. It was criticized for having the same features that Remington and Savage had but nobody complained about Remington and Savage. The real criticism was it wasn't the old Model 70. It's actually a fine rifle. I have both types. BTW, the safety on the post-64 works exactly the same as the original. Winchester ended up broke by 1981 and sold out to their employees as USRA. USRA went broke by 1989. If they'd kept losing money on the old Model 70 they'd just have gone broke sooner.
The newer Winchester model 70s are built just like the pre 64s minus iron sights and a barrel lug, the are full float barrels now. And I want one!!
The new classic model 70's also differ in they have an enclosed trigger like thatbof Remington and others.
If you get the Alaskan, say in .30-06, it does have the iron sights and the lug, too and I think a hooded front sight.
The bedding on the newer one isn't great. The recoil lug in my brother's 338 disintegrated in short order and is now steel bedded. Otherwise the quality is good. In fairness, I have a 70 built in 58 and the checkering is poor.
My father passed on to me a 264 magnum pre 64.
Hold onto it and never sell it! I traded my first Weatherby mark V to my dad for his pre64 in a 300 win mag. And I regret it everyday even though I have several pre64’s now just not from my dad🤔😳🥲
Bless him!
Great review and philosophy of use. Also appreciate the addition of the period correct weaver scope. Thanks!
My dad was a banker. He told me that something is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.
There certainly is a mystique about the pre-64 Model 70. It was and still is a much beloved rifle, "The Rifleman's Rifle". It was very well made, reliable and as good an off the shelf rifle as you could buy. I think the biggest change in the post-64 Model 70 among many, at least to rifle aficionados, was doing away with the controlled round feed action and going with the less expensive push feed action. To them, that was unforgivable.
Yet, the push feed actioned Remington Model 700 was selling like hotcakes. The Model 700 remains the best selling sporting rifle ever produced. Over five million have been made. So, it seems to me that the desire for the 'genuine' Model 70 controlled round feed action is more emotional than practical. But if you want to buy a pre-64 Model 70, just remember what my dad said. A lot of people are willing to pay big bucks to get one. You will have to do that as well.
@Ван Гвардия The new Model 70's are excellent rifles. Out of the box they are much more accurate than the pre-64's and the M.O.A .trigger is great. They come bedded front and rear. I've read a few gun scribes who have declared the latest Model 70 to be the best of all. I wouldn't turn one down. A Super Grade in .338 Win Mag would be nice.
My grandfather, who is on hospice now just gifted me his pre 64 model 70 ❤. I will cherish this rifle forever.
There was an author by the name of Jack O'Connor who seemed to have a pretty good handle on what made a quality rifle. Lucky for me, my father thought O'Connor's words were filled with considerable wisdom. The luck part was that my father bought each of his sons a Super Grade Model 70 on our twelfth birthdays. Mine is a 1958 Super Grade in .270 Winchester (Jack O'Connors favorite caliber and gun). The only thing I've changed on this rifle, since the day I got it, was the original Balvar 8 scope... it's just not bright enough to suit these old eyes. The gun now wears a 3-12x Karl Kahles that's better suited to my eyes and the range this rifle is capable of. So why do so many people think so highly of this rifle? The fit and finish is superb from muzzle to butt plate. Keep in mind that this rifle was considered "mass produced" in it's day... today there is nothing "mass produced" that is remotely as well made. This rifle is now 65 years old, it has fired a few thousand shots, killed dozens of deer, several bear, and one each antelope and elk (and a few varmints when the need arose). And after all that, I am certain it will serve my grandson just as well. THAT is what makes this rifle so desirable... it just works so well for it's intended purpose and looks damn good while doing it.
Dave,
A very much appreciated, simple, well explained, introduction to the Winchester Model 70. 100-10x...thank you!
I am a Winchester collector and have been since the 70s. My passion is lever guns, but I would be remiss to not have a few Models 70s, wouldn't I? The later Model 70s with controlled feed are also excellent rifles. In quality of components, fit and finish I would rate them with the pre-64 models.
I have newer production, controlled feed Model 70s...a featherweight in 7x57mm and a Safari Express in .375 H&H that I would rate with any Model 70 ever made. I also have 2, pre-64 model 70s in .30-06 and .250 Savage.
The post 1964 rifles with "push feed" and the stock barrel channel that looked like it had been hogged out with a "ditch witch" was an abomination. I am not interested in owning one. I am glad that in more recent years Winchester was able to use modern technology to improve the rifle and keep costs (relatively) low.
gary K, agree with your assessment 100%. I currently have only one pre64 Mod 70 in 30-06 with a 1948 serial number. Excellent bore and an action that literally glides open and close. With scope, sling, and loaded, they are heavy and I like that. They just really feel good on the shoulder.
What do you think about the 1895?
@@jonnyw82 It is my favorite Winchester lever action. I have 5 of them! 2 .30-40s, and one each .35 WCF, .405 WCF and .30-06. So, yeah, I like them. I like the box magazine and the ability to use pointed bullets, and the line up of cartridges was the best offered by Winchester.
gary K They sure are beauties. I’d love to get my hands on a .30-06. It’s just too bad you can’t fit a scope on it.
Gary do you have any information on a PRE 64 model 70 9mm? I know they're rare, I can't find any information on what they're worth. Have one in the family for 40 years, excellent shape all original. Can you email me any information to tdedeaux@hotmail.com Thanks
I have a 3 year old model 70 that has everything the pre 64s had. Controlled feed, extractor claws, three position safety, hooded front sight... I love it!
375 H&H
I too have a 4 year old model 70 featherweight. Mine is in 280 that shoots 5/8” groups with 140 Accubonds leaving the barrel at 2950. It’s a deadly mule deer and antelope rifle.
Yeah like a new rolex is better than vintage. Cheaper too!
The 2022 Win 70 in .243 & .270 have all these goodies except open sights. The controlled round feed was brought back many years ago by Winchester. They are every bit as accurate as the pre 64 if not more so, but now made at FN overseeing. Long live the model 70 😎👍
I had a pre-64 model 88 lever .308. Loved that gun
I own a 1964 Model 70 in 30-06 which I purchased new in 1964, it has a front hooded and a rear open site and it still has the 3 position safely with the ammo release drop door and I love it. Now, If I can see the target, I can hit it and that’s good either for me. I believe, I can sell it today for 4 or 5 times what I paid for it in 1964. It has a Full Floating Molly Chrome barrel. Also, Winchester shows 3 different bolts on a this website but, my rifle has a 4th style of bolt that is not shown on that website which has a list of serial numbers with the years when Model 70s were made by serial numbers.
Im feeling bad, people protect these rifles and i use it as a work rifle. I’ve got a model 70 pre 64 h&h 375 and use it as a dangerous game rifle. I’m a trails guide in south africa and my rifle has gone through alot and still fires perfectly and accurate.
I rec'd two Mod 70s from my Dad's collection, after he passed. Both were mfg in 1950, one in 270, the other in 375 H+H magnum..love them both, and have hunted and taken deer with the 270..may have to try the 375 this fall....and remember, all original is always best!!
I inherited a 1947 model 70 with the Type II "Transitional" receiver. Love it
Beautiful! Thank U for the information! Love the Winchester Model 70. Want begin a Collection! Thanks again.
I just found a 1953 M70 in 270 at a pawn shop, beautiful original condition, may have paid too much but couldn’t pass it up. Can’t wait to take it apart and clean it up
I own 3 pre-64 Winchester model 70's and I love them.
How much you want for one
I'll gladly take one off your hands
Still have my Grandfathers Pre 64 70, well used.
great video! I recently picked up a pre 64 model 70 featherweight in 30-06 and love it! 👍
New Winchester Model 70 rifles have the controlled feed of the early 70'. The Winchester Model 1894, were all made from #1 of ordinance grade steel before anyone used this premium grade steel for sporting rifles.
I recently acquired from an alder gentleman in his late 70s he knew I love the outdoors and because I was doing a lot work repair at his home he offered me if I was interested in some rifles he was not going to use anymore I only liked one distinct rifle I’ve never fired because I do have a good number of calibers myself and it was a Remington 700 in .222 magnum if was a beauty so classic locking but very little used it belonged to his father in law and it was mounted with a weber optic and had a bipod and came in a vintage leather rifle bag, at the range it shoots sub Moa very accurate I’m very happy with this purchase hard to find ammunition though but I will be reloading so I’m saving the brass , I hope to soon find out when it was built It really looks like a pre 64 I’m so thrilled for this beautiful find!
My grandfather's hunting rifle was a pre 64 M-70 .270. Then it was my father's hunting rifle. Its been my hunting rifle since i was 14 years old and its still my primary hunting rifle. Theres a tiny, shallow gouge on the barrel from my grandfather banging it against a fence (so i hear) lol. Its an awesome gun that means a lot to me and id never sell it, or let it sit in a glass box and not be used.
My ex wife had one in .270 Winchester post transition ( 1958 ) with the common tapered tang. I had a transition model in .375 H&H Magnum with the beautiful cloverleaf tang ( 1948 ) pretty rare. The biggest advantage to me was the controlled round feed claw, the post 64's didn't have that. Honestly to get pre 64 quality now of days you are going to have to step up to a Harmann & Weiss Mauser out of Hamburg Germany.....these are the best made today and boy will they cost you.
Very good presentation. Thanks.
I have one , I got it from my father that bought it new in the 1950’s , in 1976 shot a big buck at 300 yards in 1997 . It’s like new nice video
Reliability and accuracy are the most important attributes in a great sniper rifle. That's precisely what a pre 1964 Winchester Model 70 has. RANGERS LEAD THE WAY! HOOYA!🇺🇸
Craftmanship is what separates todays rifles from yesteryear. The pride and attention to detail will not be surpassed by cnc machines. Beautiful rifle man. I like you wouldnt change a thing about it.
My Remington 722 shoots sub MOA with ammo off the shelf, and it was made in 55. Nothing new is gonna best that.
Nice video!
For those interested, the RUclipsr USOG has some informative Model 70 videos. Also Gunblue490. He has two of the newer ones.
Thanks I’ll check those out!
Great video. Nice rifle. I have a few and definitely use them. Long live the "rifleman's rifle".
David, thanks for your clip.
Sadly, the 64's and other brands as well were the end of an era on firearms.
Now we have to live and accept the polymer on everything and the short cuts in all production manner to posses something.
Just buy a Ruger No1
You can choose to have a custom, hand-made rifle if you are willing to pay the money for it. However, it's not going to outperform any one of a half dozen $500 rifles. Fact is that rifles today, even entry level, will shoot more accurately on average than those 5x more expensive of yesterday. Certainly value is subjective, but for a working class hunter, perhaps with a couple of kids who also hunt, the performance and value of today's rifles far exceed those of the past.
Why the big deal about pre-1964 Winchester M70 rifles? Oh, lots of reasons. Nostalgia for a simpler and less-complex time, when people made things by hand to last. Collector value, and the enjoyment of collecting old firearms. The joy of owning something from the past; few things compare if someone loves history. Enjoying Winchester when it was still an American company. Handling the legendary "rifleman's rifle," of the kind used by famous people like Jack O'Connor and others.
The mystique of those old wood-and-steel rifles is lasting, no question. But the current-production Model 70s by FN are in every way the equal of the pre-1964s, and in some ways surpass them. They are superb rifles. Check one out; you'll be glad you did!
I’ll be sure to check one out, thanks
It is really telling that FN manufactures a copy of the original pre 64, with some improvements. The newer rifles allow younger shooters to own the mystic and value of the classic, made in the USA, Winchester rifle. The demand for an affordable high quality rifle is still strong. Nostalgia plays a big part of “Winchester” inspired rifles.
@@mcbridecreek - The pre-1964s will always command attention and respect for a time when fine firearms were machined by men and not CNC machines, and their parts hand-fitted, but time marches on and the present-day FN-produced Winchester M70s are superb rifles, the equal of their forbearers in every way. As you say, maybe someone who can't afford - or can't find for sale - a pre-64, can buy one of the new ones and get some of that good feeling.
Great video. Very informative. I've wondered about this for years.
I laughed when you said that you've had people tell you that you shouldn't even shoot that Winchester. I agree with you. That rifle was made to shoot.
Great info, good video,, Thanks !!!
Great video. I agree 💯👍. American Companys have taken a back seat on pride and qwality in there gun making. I'm very thankful I have my Grandpa's old guns. Built to last.
Hi, I have a Winchester Model 70 .270 Cal. Pre-64, by the Serial Number was made in 1945 and it is in very good condition.
I have too a Remington 700 SPS Varmint in .243 it is very precise and I bought it new.
Recently my nephew bought a Winchester Model 70 .270 Cal., this rifle was made in 1964 and has the bolt.
Best Regards from Chihuahua City, Chihuahua State, México.
Well done, sir. I really enjoy learning from you. Thank you!
I have all 3 of the rifles you mentioned. The ruger m77 is a push feed. It has a claw extractor, but uses a plunger ejector. The failure of the system comes when moisture or dirt gets into the plunger and freezes the ejector. I love all of the rifles. In the 60s and 70s older gunsmiths were constantly telling me about remington 700 bolts breaking, as the bolts were brazed onto the bolt body. Most bolts are welded or machined on to other guns.
Ruger M77 early models were push feed with a large claw extractor. Current models are controlled round feed.
@@eduardoolaechea that is the m77 mk2
I've hunted with my grandfather's 1937 M-70 270 all my life, 60+years!! Thought I might find more about the differences ib your post. One thing I've found is that the steel of the '37 M-70 appears to be much stronger than later models. I hunted with open sights all those years, rarely killing game beyond 100 yards. When I chose to put a high quality 'scope on it, the gun-smith stated that the steel was far harder to drill for installing 'scope mounts than most other weapons he had dealt with! My gun had the "top mounted thumb" safety, which is still quite stiff!
Could be their famous Nickle Steel
I’m in the process of paying off a Remington 721 that was built June 1953. It’s in beautiful condition but it certainly shows that it has been used. To work the action on that gun is the slide your hand over partially melted butter. It’s so smooth but yet heavy and present. It’s just a joy to work the mechanics of that rifle and I can’t wait to shoot it I’ve already ladder loaded several different rounds just to be ready to go in on what works the best
Working the action on any pre '64 Winchester is like working a fine tool! The new ones are like Remington guns....garbage in my opinion
I just picked up a 1960 Winchester 88 in .308 at a gun show. What a beauty. I watched gunbroker and while pre 64s are selling for more than I paid, post 64s in the same price range are expiring with 0 bids. The word is out. LOL
I will attest to the Remington 700 being a great rifle. I have a 6mm Ackley improved built off a 250.00 wally world Remington 700 and it is superb. When it was a stock 30-06, it was still good. Remingtons are like pizza. When they are good, they are REALLY good. And even when they are crappy, they are still okay. But my pre-64 Winchester... Divine. They just did not make a crappy one. Period.
I own two Mod. 70s..both mfg in 1950.. .270 and 375 H+H magnum..love them..left to me by my Dad..thanks for the video...as Jack O'Connor said, they are the"Riflemans rifle"..none better in my opinion
American rifles shouldn't be pricey and out of reach for the Common man.
Whats the common man? Minimum wage man or what?
They are not. Maybe this rifle isn't for the common man partner'
@@cmi580 the rifle is a knockoff of the k98 or a Mauser now they're manufacturing in some Turkish factory. They are just a name lost in time or they ONLY live in our past. I have Winchester stuff but they have moved out of The USA. There heart is somewhere over seas where they know nothing of this freedom we have.
What do you think about the Sako 85 hunter 30-06?
@@cmi580 I don't . 25/06 savage great reloader round and good and straight shooting rifle. If was going to get a rifle like that I would get a saur&sohn 8mm Mauser. 30/06 just sit back one will show up before to long, same with a .308.
The biggest reason pre 64 firearms are more expensive, if you walk into any gun shop that has any firearm built before 1964, they have a note usually on the selling tag, that says all machine parts, that means no casting all the parts are made out of machine steel and put together by craftsman that’s exactly why, and yes the Mauser action is one of the most durable and reliable actions to date it’s hard to beat, One thing that stands out is the fact that these old firearms are still here and they’re still functional they stood the test of time, these new weapons won’t even come close, just like I have a browning A5, made in 1929, all numbers are matching,So that tells me the gun has never had parts installed it they’re all original from the factory
I have had two handed down in my family, a 1958 sporter in 30/06, and a 1962 30/06 featherweight. They are nice hunting rifles, however I went out and bought a Super Grade and featherweight of the FN era, basically a as good with controlled feed, if not better gun then the pre 64s due to the stock being engineered for a scope and not for open sight like the pre-64. I opted for the .308 in the newer rifle to have a shorter handier rifle.
The reason for the Model 70 change to push feed was from Winchester and the ammo company that owned them split up. They made way more money selling ammo than guns, so when the mother company left, Winchest had the choice of shutting down or making changes in manufacturing specs.
I just bought a 1962 Mod 70 FW in 270. Waiting for Loupold bases and rings then I'll put my Vortex 3X10X50 on it
There is a reason why vortex has a lifetime warranty, that’s because your going to need it! I have bought hundreds of scopes over almost 60 years and you will find the Burris for cheaper scopes and Leupold for mid range price scopes are the Best Buy’s out there!
I HAVE A 58 GREAT SHOOTER
My pre-64 was manufactured in 1952 (serial # 216152). It has the original walnut stock, cut checkering and a serrated steel butt plate. I hope you didn't pay a lot of money for your model 70 without the original stock.
Winchester is now back to making the controlled feed model 70. Would you happen to know if the new winchester controlled feed is as good as the pre-64? Thank you
My grand father has a Pre War model 70 and he is thinking about giving it to me. My dad is not a big gun person, he does like them but does not shoot that much. So my grandfather is probably going to give me his.
What a beautiful rifle, great music to match aswell!
The quality the smoothness and the claw extractor as simple as that
Pre 64s can be expensive. Good news. They've been making them again, in the USA, by FN/Winchester.(?) I have the pre 64 controlled round feed action in a post 08 "new production" Model 70 Featherweight. I love it. It cycles way more smoothly than my sporterized K98 Mauser.
I've got a sweet Winslow rifle in .270 Winchester, built on a Mauser action with the large claw extractor similar to the Winchester pre-64 model 70. I intend to sell it through Rock Island Auction. Will be driving it there next week.
The big boys of accuracy say the Remington system is a bit more accurate because the ejector plunger spring pushes the case in as far as it can go every shot so there is no movement upon contact with the firing pin. The average guy will not notice.
That was outstanding great review !
What a beautiful piece!
Own 3 pre 64' Winchester. Model 97 made in 1926, model 12 made in 1955 and Model 94 saddle made in 1922.
What most collectors won't tell you because they'll never admit to it is that the "Classic" models that were produced in the '90s are every bit as good as the pre '64s, if not better. They're virtually identical, the only standout difference is that Winchester used a darker walnut on the earlier ones whereas the '90s models are a lighter in color walnut. The pre '64 models might be worth a few dollars more than the Classics but after a side by side comparison there's just not enough difference between the two to make me sell my Classic and go chasing after a pre '64 model Winchester.
Have shot nothing but pre 64s so it's good to know why they"re great.
Currently only have one with a 1948 serial number. Wonderful rifle.
EastTexan Yeah I absolutely love mine. Can’t wait to take more deer with it
I have a model 70 30 06 that was made in 64. It's the 96th post 64 made. It shoot sub moa with a few of the 180 grain factory loads that I have tried. Taking it with Saturday for New Yorks opener.
Thank for your video on the M70. A couple corrections: I thought you inferred the 3-position safety design was dropped in the post-64 M70. It wasn't, and remained unchanged; your front sight ramp was NOT milled with the barrel--it is a sintered item that was silver-soldered to the barrel--this replaced the earlier milled in one piece method by the late '50s.
How awesome would it be if the new Model 70s would've kept the exact same simple trigger?
Outstanding video, thanks very much!
Bottom line is it gives gun writers and collectors something to harp about. My post 64 Model 70 cycles cartridges just fine including in the inverted position.
The claw extractor has an advantage when extracting dirty or expanded brass. (Like old brass from "back in the day" poor quality, or over pressure from far to hot handloads). I'm hopefully not considered ancient but I have had brass fail to extract and rip the rim at the extractor using old military rounds (30.06 and 8x57mm).
The controlled feed...thats really more personal preference however the one thing you can't do with a controlled feed bolt is double feed.
I do agree with you that most people would never have a reason that controlled feed gives any advantage.
What he also fails to note is the lock time for most of the Mauser based actions isn't great (like the pre 64 Winchester).
@@duanesamuelson2256 Hmmmm lock time difference. I never heard that before.
I love pre 64 Winchester rifles but I have a post 64 that love its shoots better than some of my pre models but my go do rifle is a old savage 30/30 bolt action that i put a lot of venison on the table with
Beautiful. Hardly used
Actually both Remington and Winchester produced the P17 military rifle during the 1st world war. When the armistice was signed both companies found they had a wealth of P17 parts and machinery but no contract.
Winchester balked at the notion of producing a quality commercial hunting rifle until they learned that Remington was doing just that, so Winchester eventually developed the Model 54 based on parts drawn and modified from P17 surplus. That evolved into the Model 70.
I own both the pre 64 and the post 64 Winchester model 70 as well as 2 Remington model 700‘s. They’re all great rifles. But the pre 64 is the best.
And that because of cycling the rounds and probably most important of all is extraction. When the weather is cool or cold and you’re deer hunting aka non dangerous game you’ll be okay with push feed.
But in Africa where it’s hot you really do need control feed to extract those potentially stuck cases. The push feed with it’s dainty extractor just might get you in trouble or worse in a tight situation with dangerous game.
For Africa the pre 64 m70 with it’s Mauser type control feed is really the way to go on dangerous game if not another high quality, control feed Mauser type magazine rifle.
I have had Both Push Feed and Plunger Type And With Both I've Never Ever Had An Issue With Extraction Of Any Rounds .30-06, .270 Win , 243 Win And 7X57 Mauser. NEVER EVER DID I HAVE A PROBLEM With Any Winchester
Push feed vs controlled feed? Does it really matter as long as the round gets into the chamber?
My uncle missed getting an elk because the bolt had come up and the gun wouldn’t fire. When he worked the action, the elk bolted and it was game over.
I mean I get it. If it were 1963, I was a blue collar worker with a family to support, and I was looking to buy a hunting rifle, and the Remmington 700 was selling for $700, and theWinchester was selling for $1,200...even if thegun shop guy oointed out the comtrolled feed issue, better floor plate, nicer machining and hand checkering...I gotta admit, I probably woulda chose the 700, and saved myself $500, as most guys probably would of. Today, sure you can buy a custom made rifle, with all the bells and whistles for $5K, but they dont sell many of those. Winchester is a business after all, and if your main competitor comes out with a product, that steals marketshare from you, because of more modern machining...How could you blame Winchester Management, they have an obligation to their customers to produce a cost competitive product, and to their stockholders to produce rifles that sell at a profit. I dont think Winchester had much choice, and probably 90% of hunters buying post '64s were probably just happy to save a couple hundred $...Those that werent, wanted traditional, and had the money, could always go buy a custom rifle. Winchester sold a lot more rifles by changing with the times,and stayed in business for another 50 years. 😮
Another difference between the three poss. safety and two poss. safety is that the three poss. safety captures the firing pin and the other safety captures the trigger. This is a big plus for me. The same three poss. safety is also on my Ruger and Montana rifles
Very enjoyable. Thanks.
I have a newer Model 70 and love it . It has the 3 position safety like yours . The biggest difference I see is yours has the claw extractor and mine has push feed stlye and mine doesn't have the iron sights . Mine is factory glass bedded also . Mine has a metal floor plate and very nice walnut stock . I see nothing wrong with the newer model 70's with push feed .
There’s nothing wrong with the pushfeed m70s. Right from the beginning, they were good shooters. However, the first post 63 M70s were quite homely compared to what hunters had come to expect from Winchester. Later on, the post 63 push feeds were refined, and became really beautiful rifles. I shoot a pre-64 model 70, but my buddy shoots a 1988 M70 Lightweight that’s gorgeous. I’ve got nothing against the push feed guns. Both of our rifles are in .270, btw.
Not mentioned is the fact that these guns along with the 98 Mauser are nearly indestructible. I've seen these rifles hold their accuracy after being beaten to crap for years. Same with the model 94s.
Luckily in 2007 Winchester started producing the model 70 with controlled round feed again. Or pre 64 action. I have to admit I purchased one and they are made as well or maybe even better than the pre 64. However only the Safari and Alaskan come with open sights a feature I really like. I still love the pre 64 but quality of materials as well as fit and finish are outstanding for the price on the new models. Winchester really redeemed its name with a rifle that has the feel,of old world craftsmanship again.
The bedding and recoil block on the newer model 70s is crap. Bedding the rifle I very useful. My brother's 338 blew out the lug in the first 10 rounds. Other than that. Great rifles.
They actually started making it again in the 1990s called the classic,I have one in 270 cal. with the Boss system
Modern machining doesn't necessarily mean better, either. A machinist and a machine operator are entirely different. When a friend of mine restored a very
early Indian motorcycle for Steve McQueen, he and his team of engineers at General Motors took Two years to successfully recreate engine cylinders originally made prior to 1910.
This is a Featherweight, a nice rifle! In response to a Hickok45 video earlier this year I went on the hunt for a pre-64 Model 70 and found a nice one on GB. A 1950 Standard in 30-06, all as original. Hickok45's is a pre-war with the stripper clip slot in the receiver, otherwise mine is the same. It was a bucket list rifle for me, I won't be collecting any more of them, at least I don't think so, but how can one be even a modest Winchester collector and not have a pre-64 Model 70?
If it was a featherweight that would be stamped on the barrel or the receiver. It is not
@@drdrake63 I was just going by the drilled cocking ball and the aluminum buttplate. These are fine rifles, keepers for sure.
David Drake yes David you are correct, your’s is definitely not a featherweight. The featherweights do not have the stock screw or the bulge in the barrel that the screw threads into. And yes it would clearly be labeled as a featherweight.
@@drdrake63 A hollow in the bolt handle too.
Have one my dad left me that he got from his older brother. My dad killed a lot of deer in Utah / Colo. with that pre 64, it will stay in our family.
PS my dad preferred a Redfield with tapered post 6x. 👍
Mine is a 1948 model 70 “ super grade “ in 300 H&H chambering. Long barrel with iron sights.
Scope from same year. Lyman Alaskan 2 power with Tilden ring base.
New Haven Connecticut. Built before manufacturing costs overruled product quality.
Sweet !
How accurate is yours I was surprised how accurate the 300 H&H is
I have a Winchester Model 94 built in 1911 that was my grandfathers I carved my initials in the stock stupidly when I was a boy. I still have the rifle the stock is now cracked after my grandfather got his last deer he was old his horse did something in the barn and cracked the stock while the deer was being dressed out was the story I was told.
Still a great gun have one just like it that someone cut the stock to put an aftermarket recoil pad on. All you have to do is shop gun broker until a stock comes up for that model which might be awhile
The claw extractor doesn't rotate around the bolt. The bolt rotates and the extractor remains in the same position. Cycle the bolt and you will see. Also, the ejector is a separate piece within the receiver. Ejection has nothing to do with the extractor rotating (which it doesn't).
First look at the bolt and I thought I was looking at a K98
The pre-64 is almost a clone of the Mauser 98, one of the finest bolt actions ever made. After '64, Winchester made changes that affected accuracy, durability, functionality, and general quality of the rifle.