My grandfather was on the USAF sharpshooter team from the 50's until the 70's, avid hunter, ect. He gave me his favorite rifle a Model 70 in 30-06, bought in 1957.
One dude in another comment said they're reliable weapons. While he didn't mention how difficult it was to keep the gun itself clean, he did say he absolutely hated the Unertl scope in the jungles of Nam cause the little amount of sunlight effected how well a person could see through it. He also stated the Unertl scope is amazing when you're not in the jungle.
Contending with the humidity, cyclic heating and cooling between jungle valley and high mountain altitudes, the glare and dust, the deluge of rain, and with these old guns prone to warping of the stock and corrosion of the steel they were still able to record kills at record-breaking distances...man I do respect those fellas for their intimate knowledge of their weapons systems and attention to detail in maintaining them. Semper Fi.
The new Model 70s made by Fabrique National-Herstal of Belgium, the firm which now owns Winchester and Browning, are superb rifles, every bit the equal of their older and more-famous big brothers pre-1964. Check one out - you'll be glad you did.
Winchester and Browning are now owned by the Belgian firm Fabrique Nationale Herstal, better-known to Americans as FN. The newest Winchesters being made by FN are of superb quality, if the ones I have seen in circulation are at all representative.
Tough choice.... what will you be using it for? Deer hunting, target practice, varmint hunting? The .270 is a great plains and desert cartridge - hard-hitting and flat-shooting. With a good130-140-grain load, it will handle most any game you find in the lower forty-eight states. I don't know if a seasoned brown bear hunter would use a 270 to hunt Griz or moose, but it is a very capable chambering none-the-less. 7mm-08 is another caliber which has high ballistic efficiency. Those .284-caliber slugs are slippery moving through the air. A lot of people prefer them to a.308 or .270 for white-tail. Short-action cartridge so less recoil than the long-action 270. .308 is the Swiss Army Knife of center-fire rifle cartridges. It isn't the "best" at anything but does most things required of a rifle cartridge well. Very widely-available, economical and well-sorted out in terms of dope. Short-action as well. My personal choice for a single caliber to do it all, hunting-wise (at least in the U.S. and Canada) is the venerable 30-06, but I like all of the ones you mention. The long-action '06 case can be loaded with bullets as light as 110 grains and as heavy as 220 grains. It is widely available not only in North America, but around the world. And since service rifle competitors at Camp Perry have used them for years, there is plenty of dope on the cartridge as a competition round. These days, newer cartridges have replaced it in today's service rifle matches, but you'll still find them in John C. Garand and vintage service rifle competitions. And loaded with the right hunting bullet, the 30-06 is enough medicine for even the big Grizzlies.
The Corps' obsession with marksmanship is rooted in the reality of being a forward deployed expeditionary force. We rarely had heavy weapons in our formative years and marksmanship was therefore the only option.
You’re absolutely correct about the Marine Corps and it’s marksmanship program. I was in Boot Camp in 1956 and we went to camp Matthew in California from San Diego to qualify with the rifle from 100 - 500 yards. From offhand at 100 yard to Prone at the 500 yard line. Even though with my M1 A1 I have a third-generation Springfield rifle scope mounted on it. I’m just more comfortable using M1 sight.
I'm a big peace-nick anti-war hippy, but I have a lot of respect for the marksmanship aspect of the marine corps. Although the point is still killing other human beings, it just seems so much more civilized than sending hundreds or even thousands of soldiers in and just trying to overcome by attrition.
Having read Charles Henderson's biography ("Marine Sniper") of Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, whose primary weapon during his service in Vietnam was a rifle just like this, it's a treat to get a good look at one of these rifles. Thank you.
Yep, read it, and was thinking the same thing. Also, good chance the owner of the rifle here knew Hathcock personally, seeing as they were both shooting competitively.
@@jabbalechat7910 I do believe he was a Captain at the time in VN though I could be wrong, it has been many years since I read Marine Sniper. May have to dig it out of the library and refresh my memory.
Man was a legend... still is actually. He used a fucking browning m2 50 cal with a 10x scope to shoot the longest confirmed kill at the time. He missed the first time and hit a vietcong young teen who was carrying weapons and hit the bike. The second shot made the record at roughly 1.5 miles.
I saw one in use one night end of March 1968 at Khe Sanh. The shooter was working with an M2 gunner who fired tracer rounds single shot back at muzzle flash of NVA to give the rifle shooter an idea of where the shooter was, then the actual engagement was with the rifle. Impressive results.
My great uncle Carl was a sniper in the Vietnam war he never spoke about his time in Vietnam he served all through the war and moved to Germany after becoming a sergant major. He passed just the other day odd how youtube shows the weirdest videos to folks.
I hated them. They were fragile as hell, easy to get the adjustment gear filled with mud and mang and the optics are dark and hard to see through. The jungle is not a bright and sunny place..and peering through ones butt hole while looking for the people who are looking for you..was not..not a fun time of my life. The later Leatherwood ART scopes that we in the Army used..were far far superior. Still a bit fragile..but nowhere like the Unertil/Lyman scopes. I should mention that on bright ranges in the open..the Unertil/Lyman scopes are quite good..which is why they can be found on several of my competition rifles today. But my combat rifles..much different scopes.
Always great how Ian seems so excited to show these things off and talk about them, definitely appreciates these things way more than I can with my limited knowledge of fire arms. To me it's mostly a historical thing.
If I got to see and fire these vintage weapons I would be very elated too, I mean extremely grateful and elated lol, Ian is very informative and quite funny at times, just a really honest and courteous host 🇦🇺👍😊
I've considered myself a gun person for most of my life, but I had no idea there was such a thing as a free-floating scope. I learned something new today!
Mosin ppl always find a way to jam the fact that the own 1 of those trash sticks into any kinda gun conversation. It's like those ppl with 1 extra douche tattoo and they always ask about ur tat so they can show their Japanese letters and coy fish tramp stamp...
My Dad was a designated marksman in the Corp. Very early Viet Nam. A good chance he used one of these. He was an exceptional shot. His Jr, Small bore rifle team won the national championship in I believe '56. When Winchester visited his local range outside Hood River, to do product demonstrations, he handled a shotgun for the very first time and fired a perfect score. I think that was, at the time, 25 out of 25. Winchester offered him a job on their trick team right then and there, but his Dad forbid it. I guess he was a decent football player too and his Dad didn't want to jeopardize amateur athlete status.He had the 2nd highest qualifying score ever recorded at San Diego during his boot camp. While he was in Viet Nam, a Colonel, I believe, or perhaps a major, made him part of his personal detail, because of his marksmanship. He "worked" in Saigon. Dad didn't talk much about it but I know whatever it was he was doing made him never hunt again after his service. What a designated marksman would do in the S. Vietnamese capitol, I can only speculate. I have a feeling it was not completely above board. He spent his last year of service in Hawaii working at the Officer's Club, a pretty coveted job.So, my feeling is he must have earned it He had 5 pre-64 model 70's in various calibers, His match .22, made by Winchester a sporterized, match grade 1903-A1, Both shot like lasers, his service pistol that I believe was made by Singer that I couldn't hit jack with and a match grade M1 that was only fired a total of 8 times. This I know because it had never been fired until we ran a clip through it. I was supposed to inherit all of them but my stepmom cut off contact after he passed. I have not a clue what happened to it all but was probably sold it off for a song, as was her nature.
Friend of mine retired from the Marine Corps in 1974. He was a sniper in Vietnam for a number of Tours. The rifle he used the most often was exactly as you exhibit here. He said his longest shot was 1700 yards, though because he frequently worked Behind Enemy Lines, it was not confirmed. Though I have no reason to doubt his veracity as the 308 round is capable of shooting that far with the right load. His Commanding General actually at one point in the war provided him a Weatherby with a lengthened barrel for him to use but he never had the opportunity to test that distance again.
How on earth did I miss this one?? Wow ... just wow!! What a beautiful, gorgeous, fascinating piece of firearms history ... I've read about these rifles but to actually see one, and one with so much provenance ... I think my heart literally skipped a beat. THAT is a rifle!!! Thanks so much for sharing that with us, Ian, sorry I missed it all those years ago - Mea Culpa! :-(
moving from Springfield's to the Winchester 70 and Remington 700's haven't we essentially just confirmed that Mauser copies meant for hunting are the way to go.
The Mauser is a fantastic design, no question about it, and it definitely laid the foundation for the modern bolt action rifle. I would argue, however, that the P14 is actually superior to the Mauser because of the smoothness and the speed of the cock on closing design. Also, the Mauser 98 action is somewhat too flexible for Maximum accuracy, such that modern designs have opted for a far more rigid, all encompassing receiver design. Having said that, they pretty much all use the Mauser 98 as a starting point for improvements.
My Dad was Army he had a Remington M40. Then an M21 while he served. He used to say wish i had a Winchester. But was glad to get the M21. He is now old and a sports shooter. And yep has a custom M21 and a Winchester M70 SS. And swears by the 308
My father was a Camp Perry competitor. He had 2 of these scope. The plunger that holds the tube against the adjustment knobs is also spring loaded. Thanks Ian.
I had a chance when I was 18 to buy a model 70 just like this with the same scope but in 8x from a pawn shop. I went to borrow the money from my dad and came back and it was gone. But I currently own a model 70 in 30.06, .325wsm, 7mm mag, and .308. Greatest bolt guns I've got.
A designated marksman was issued an M14 EBR and given a 2 week course on marksmanship in 2011. It was a bit of a joke really. They were meant to bridge the gap between riflemen with M4s and 240 gunners such as myself. Our SDM hardly ever fired his rifle in combat, he just never really needed to and honestly was usually my assistant gunner. It was another case of the army mismanaging what could've been an excellent tool.
Interestingly, some used Winchester 70's in WW2 as well. Very small amount but for the very same reason as in Vietnam. The US has a long history with this gun.
Some years ago, I chanced upon a B-Model Winchester 52 with an 8x Unertl scope with the "Marine Sniper" marking an a valid Unertl serial number. The rifle was in excellent condition; the scope was pitted externally and quite yellow in the view. Long a fan of Win 52s, I snapped it up, took off the scope, and installed a set of Redfield Olympic sights that I had grown up with on other 52s. It wasn't until later that I learned that the collector's value of the scope was more, substantially more, than the value of a good condition Model 52B with Speedlock!
The Navy also used this same rifle and spring loaded scope mounts, but had a "Super Spot" scope,. Same sporter stock, same heavy barrel. The bolts floats like wet glass and not 1 sound and trigger pull is set at a very crisp, light touch. Its sighted in for 1000 yards.
Thanks for showing this part of sniper rifle evolution. At least one M70 of similar configuration was used (and recounted in print) in the Pacific Theater in WWII, Korea also. Unertl scope mounts were aluminum, either black or natural anodized, and could be had in "dehorned" configuration, wherein the target adjustment knobs, as on the RIA auction example, we're replaced with mounts containing knurled, shorter adjustment knobs (less prone to inadvertent adjustment "in the field"). The return to battery spring can be compressed by the attached, knurled thumb screw to adjust it's tension for differing recoil requirements. This particular style of M70 configuration--checkered sporter stock, 24" Target barrel--is a direct descendant of the Winchester M54 Sniper Rifle configuration, and predates the M70 Varmint Rifle style, which was standard with 26" bbl. Often, the dates on underside of these 30-06 bbls will be much earlier than the dates of production that the receivers' serial numbers indicate, meaning the rifles were assembled with unused, inventory bbls, some dating to M54 production.
I remember reading Hathcock’s book and he mentioned moving the scope back after a shot, I was puzzled by this. Now I’m more learned. Great channel mate.👍
They also re-barreled alot of these to shoot 7.62x51 and left them as a long action. Which is now a really cool concept because as a reloader, having a longer action you can shoot longer length 7.62 or. 308 that you could out of the short actions magazine and not have feeding issues
This the same rifle that Carlos Hathcock used in Vietnam. Its worth reading his book and the fight John Lands USMC snipers had in using these opposed to the M1. But they were so successful that it was permitted. My dad actually spent time with him and Australian troops copied him. But back then the Aussies used Mausers in 7.62 with Zeiss Scopes.
I carried one of these in Vietnam in 65 66, I went through the first sniper school at the base of hill 327. I was in Golf 2/9. I'd love to buy this rifle. How do I get in contact with the seller... and how much is it selling for. The Colonel who owned the rifle may have been the Captain that was in charge of the school in Vietnam.
@@Nick-px6yy There should be a scientific study that confirms that any youtube comment will eventually devolve into name-calling, insults and nazis of some form will be mentioned, regardless. I could comment 'nice video' and 10 replies down people are wishing each other cancer.
@@jabloko992 Ah, you're referring to Jonathan Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory :) It simply states thus: Any Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad.
I have two Unertil 10x Scopes, one is on a 1903 Springfield that was chambered for 22-250. The other is mounted on a Pre War double trigger Mauser that was barreled in .243 Winchester. My Father bought them both at Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC back in the fifties.
Your series and narration are superb. (The promotion for the auction at the end was very discreet and tasteful.) Also, it was fascinating to see how the elevation and windage scope mechanism was implemented. Elegant simplicity that had me slapping my head saying, "of course!" Thank you very much.
I wish you'd made mention of the target shooting features on the rifle, including the milled stripper clip slot for reloading during rapid fire matches along with the screw holes in the receiver and installed front sight base for mounting a set of target sights. A fine rifle and an interesting cross over between the target world and sniper field.
Not trying to give a pat answer, but consider attending a marksmanship workshop from the Appleseed Project, a non-profit devoted to teaching Americans traditional field marksmanship skills as well as some of our founding history. You'll learn to shoot a rifle from field positions using a sling - prone, sitting, kneeling, standing (off-hand). In brief, the sling is used to provide stability in the absence of a bipod or shooting bench.
They made one in .243 too ! Knew a guy who hunted deer and chucks with it. 1 shot 1 kill was his game. He loaded his own brass with pointed soft point bullets as I recall. Damn accurate and deadly !
I brought my rifle home from 'Nam. It is an M-21, Winchester model 70 in 30-06 with a 3-9 power Redfield scope. It served me well. Since I got home it has taken many Deer, Elk and Bear so it continues to serve me as well as it ever did.
My father, a USMC rifle team member, told me the first service rifle shooter to go clean over the national match course at Camp Perry was using an M1. This was in the late 50’s or early 60’s.
There was a story of a Marine in Vietnam who crawled in tall grass all on his own for three days to snipe a NVA General. He succeeded and crawled all the way back while the enemy searched for him stepping within 10 feet of him. The stuff that soldiers did back then earns my respect no matter what side they fought for.
My dad had a deer rifle custom made in the 70's using a springfield action but fired .25 06 necked down from stantard .30 06. He harversted alot of deer with that rifle. I got myself a couple with it.
Nah makes sense if they are not into guns. There may also be medical bills or other debt maybe it was keep the guns or keep the house. Maybe it was send the grandkids to collage. There could be any number of reasons you would rather have cash then some wall ornaments.
It was originally offered to the USMC in 1942. As you said it was Poo Pooed by the brass. Some still made their way to the Pacific Theater. I have a 1937 M70 in 30 GOVT'06 with an 8x UNERTL ; 20" hunting barrel. First shot hits at 500 Meters (547 Freedom Units) at a 30cm square (12 little Freedom Units) with a 150 grain bullet.
What a great series you have created Ian, thank you! I've always loved History and weapons but was relatively ignorant of some of the history, details and arcane types of weapons made. I've really enjoyed and hope to further my horizons with your videos!
I read several several Marine sniper books on Vietnam. They were able to get match grade ammo. They had to sight in the scope ( or verify it ) whenever they got a different batch or lot# of ammo.
I recommend tracking down Carlos Hathcock's book where he goes into great detail how he used this rifle in combat. His role in the USMC in Vietnam was as extended reconnaissance and long range sniping, targetting North VN army officers. In one memorable mission he lay in a grass field for two days waiting to kill an enemy general. As the most goods coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail to the "beak" actually was located with the area of responsibility of the Australian units, he talks about the differences in patrolling with US and Australian forces, specially the latter who adopted completely silent, sterile patrolling and with no back to base radios. Its a good read.
i had a M70 pre 64 3006 exactly like this right down to the 14x Unertl scope. It was a lot of fun to shoot....i even had a few boxes of 1967 LC match 173 gr FMJ ammo. I had the rifle zeroed at 500 yrds most of the time. One morning early i got into my deer blind to hunt hogs with M70. The feeder was 490 yrds from the blind....at sunrise a lone boar came to the feeder. The LC match ammo did its job....DRT. That is the only hog i killed with M70 before i sold it. Wish i hadn't sold it now.
Why was it that they ended up choosing the Remington over the Winchester to make the M40? Maybe it's a my rifle is better than yours thing but I've heard so much praise for the winchester over the 700, at least pre-65 versions.
In a nutshell, Procurement Politics. Remington marketed itself better to the soldiers who had final say on things. As for the differences, there really is not any and it is just a matter of personal preference which is mostly in the mind of the user. They are both simple sporting Mausers and all arguments to the contrary are just picking nits off an Elephant's arse.
Eustace Stritchers That makes a lot of sense, I figured it was gonna be a pricing or someone was bought out deal like you see on a lot of military firearms(at least did see in the past) Thanks for explaining.
warriorwolf77 I wish I could give you lots of details and names and such, but such information is generally buried deep in archives and nearly always paint the same picture. US Procurement, as shown by Ian with many weapons, is a very complicated and convoluted process and it is almost never possible to say that there was one decisive factor that determined the decision.
Eustace Stritchers I'd be nice to know the specifics but if it's not possible then no worries, probably would really come down to mundane stuff like that. Not to say your answer wasn't good enough but I'm interested in what Ian has to say too considering how much he reads on weapons he might have something you and I don't know.
Does it really matter what company was chosen? It's just a bolt action rifle built to spec. I'm guessing the decision had more to do with price and quantity.
I went to a gun show this past weekend (James D. Julia had a booth set up there too actually) and recognized a bunch of the rifles at the show thanks to your recent videos of scoped rifles. There was an M1C or D, MC-1952 (with the lens covers!), a 1903 with the 8x version of this scope (1903A1 I think), and a 1903A4 with the upgraded scope. Also a G43 which was really cool to finally see and handle in person, a semi auto Bren, a beautiful No.4 Mk.III, and a K98 that had most of its role marks removed and a serial number starting with an "M" which I thought was odd.
30-06 bolt rifle with decent glass... Still my go-to for dialing long distance. Those sliding-mount scopes though. Seems like kind of a good idea. Wonder why it was abandoned in more modern designs.
I imagine that the tolerances would need to be prohibitively tight to keep the zero at extended ranges with a sliding device like that. The rigors of military field service would probably loosen that up quite a bit.
Unertl built extremely tough optics, which is one of the reasons they had the contract with the 'Corps for so long. Those long, external-adjustment scopes were good kit, but since the mechanism was exposed, it was open to the elements and therefore accelerated corrosion, dirt build-up, etc. Also the length and sheer size of the scope and its mount created problems for the guys carrying them. Regardless of manufacturer, both the Army and Marine Corps had persistent problems with optics during the Vietnam war, mostly due to the extreme heat, near-constant rain and high humidity of the SE Asian jungle. Scopes fogging up, components not holding together in the heat and wet, and so on. Once the war was over, the services searched for better gear, which may have opened the door somewhat for Unertl competitors. According to an internet search, it looks like the Marine Corps began phasing out Unertl scopes in the early 2000s. By 2008, it - the company - had closed its doors and folded. External adjustment optics have been used by other companies, some with considerable success. Earnest Leitz - Canada (Elcan) uses the principle in their scopes, which are standard issue for the Canadian army for use on their Colt-Canada C7 rifles (a variant of the M16).
Having read about Mr Hathcock (RIP), they used ammunition with 173gn Sierra boattail bullets. Some Australian police snipers used .308W with the same projectile, at least up until 2012.
I'm sorry sam, but i just can't justify the systematic murder of jungle folk too simple too know where we are on earth…but they were threatening the blah blah blah
In the Marine Corps ,there’s quite a bit of equipment they get comes out of the Navy budget. When I got discharge from the Marine Corps in 1959 and join the army a couple months later . WhenI reported to the army base in California and was assigned to a company. The army then was equipped with M 14 rifles and M-60 machine gun and in the Marine Corps we still had M1rifles and 30 caliber machine gun. When I was in 12th special forces in 1965 ,as far as I’m aware of the Air Force was the only one that had the M-16s ,but we also had them in special forces which was the first time I had ever seen one that was assigned to any kind of unit even though I was familiar with them.
It looked to me like this rifle had guide for a stripper clip. This seems odd for both a civilian hunting rifle and for a sniper rifle since you could not use clips anyway. Was this something that was custom ordered by the Marines or was that sometimes done by Winchester like Remington did with the model 8? Or am I mistaken entirely?
The Model 70 Target was made that way for the rapid fire events of the National Match Course. Used iron sights for those- you can see the front sight block on the barrel. They competed against Springfields a lot.
Remington also did this with the 40x, some people milled their own, and others drilled and tapped the receiver to add a stripper clip guide to guns like the Remington 700, generally for cmp type competition in the open division, where your string of shots are done within a par time for each shooting position, standing, sitting, prone at 200, 300, 600 yards or meters.
Ian, Your Springfield, Garand and now this M70 sniper series coverage is just excellent. High marks for the intelligent, concise clarification and illustration of all written information I found in the works of reference ! I'm sorry I never found the Brophy book, btw......
Your eye has to be so close it actually almost touches the Unertl scope when you fire it. . .They used to make them just north of Pittsburgh, so I've seen quite a few of them. . .They are sensitive. . .and can be bumped out of true very easy, . . but are easy to recalibrate. . . There are early commercial scopes with blued steel scope mounts and high polish blued tubes. There is supposed to be a set of lens caps and a big lanyard with elastic, and a sock slip cover. . . at least on the commercial versions.
Designated Rifleman is kinda the middle ground between the standard infantry man, and a specialized sniper team. That's the way I always heard it explained. An infantry man can shoot at medium distance. A DMR is part of the same squad and gets those baddies that can't quite be reached by the rest of his group, and the specialized sniper is a separate team brought in to do those really difficult super long distance jobs no body else has the skill or the equipment to handle. Kinda right?
DMRs overlap their missions with scout-snipers somewhat, but the DMR characteristically does not receive nearly the same amount of specialized training in field-craft, stalking, reconnaissance, observation, and other specialist skills. DMRs are highly-trained marksmen capable of bridging the gap between infantry and crew-served weapons, air and artillery. Don't the idea that DMRs are anything less than useful; they're very valuable. It is simply that they're different than scout-snipers in terms of their training, employment and role.
Designated marksmen - also sometimes called SDM's for"squad designated marksmen" - close the 300-600 yard gap which exists between standard infantry armed with assault rifles and dedicated scout-snipers and also crew served weapons which get many missions out past 600 yards/meters (USMC uses yards, Army meters). DM's can handle some of the missions a scout-sniper trained man could do, but not all of them, as DM's do not receive the same training in field-craft, stalking, scouting, and reconnaissance that scout-snipers do. And at least in the Corps, scout-snipers operated in two-man teams during the Vietnam era, whereas DM's are usually singletons. The designated marksman title was not formally recognized in Vietnam, as it had not yet come into being - at least formally in terms of the table of organization and equipment. Getting back to the two-man team used by the 'Corps in Vietnam: One man behind the rifle, one to spot, calculate the dope, prepare the range card, call out corrections, and also to handle the radio and rear/flank security. Spotters were often, but not always, the senior, more well-qualified and experienced man, given the demands of the job. In 'Nam, Marine snipers used bolt-action rifles, either the Winchester M70 30-06 as shown here, or its replacement, the Remington Model 700 in 7.62x51 NATO. Whereas the spotter usually had an M-14with iron sights. As well as whatever secondary weapons the team elected to bring along. Back in the present, scout-sniper teams are used as often for their scouting/reconnaissance skills asthey are for their skill putting lead on target. Being that we live in the digital age, an important role for modern-day teams is target identification and then painting with a laser, which a PGM (precision-guided munition) can then ride down onto the target. So-called HRT teams - "hard-target interdiction" teams - are scout-sniper teams trained/equipped for specific anti-material missions, such as Special Ops teams in Gulf War I who took out Scud missiles with Barrett .50-caliber rifles, from way out there, distances of 1500 or more meters.
+bigdave1917 Hathcock used a model 70 in 30-06. What you're describing is the m40. Those weren't around when He got started. He got one after they came out.
At the time the long external adjustable scopes were more reliable when it came to returning to zero and repeatable click adjustments for target shooting. The adjustable mounts were even used for a kind of iron sight called a tube sight which at the time were considered more precise than any of the iron sights available. Internal ajustable scopes have improved a lot and I'm not sure you would find many of the long scopes on the firing line at Camp Perry any more but I wouldn't be surprised. It isn't uncommon to still see small bore target rifles with scope blocks for the long Unertl and Lyman scopes.
There is a difference between being "technically proficient" & having the "gift". I'm ok, I was even my Company marksmanship NCO...but I didn't have the "gift" But I have seen people with it & it's a joy to behold. I clicked when you said some troops caried their own weapons. My Dad, a Col. with MACV, came back with two weapons he had "aquidred?" Judas, an octagonal barled lever action from the late 1800s & a French MAS 12 guage side by side, beautifly engraved with the name of the officer who carried it. Sometimes it's run what ya brung
Did some serious US sniper rifle collector die or go into a nursing home, placing these rare artifacts on the market again? I know their is confidentiality with the auction house.
Missed or I wouldn't have asked question. A very successful neurosurgeon, WW2/Korean War vet that was in our collectors' association ended up in skilled nursing care prior to passing. Family liquidated his collection of 70+ years with many very exotic and interesting pieces re-entering market. His family did however ask for privacy from auction house. This situation is reason I asked Ian question.
Shane K It's true, he was a founding member of out association in 1954. I managed a "Zulu shotgun", about all I could afford at time, at auction from his collection. He mentored many young collectors. If he was still around I'm certain he and Ian would have lots to talk about.
USMC Gunny Sgt Carlos Hathcock used something akin to this, he's a legend within the sniper community, now he's sniping on the other side, if god wants rabbit for lunch, he calls Hathcock who learned sniping from hunting for his family's dinner. Hatchcock even used a 50 cal w a scope on top for some shooting in Nam, how effective was that, use a oiuja board to connect w the NVA he sent to the other side for a review. Enjoying the vids, keep up the good work.
I've actually handled the only sequentially #'d pair of PSG's in the US. Trade in's from a michigan SWAT team. $30k was the price for the pair and they sold nearly immediately. They were VERY heavy and the Hensoldt 6x's with the eye cup would take some getting used to.
By the way ,the Marine Corps has never had “ a designated marksman” , the premier is that every Marine is rifle qualified and there’s no need for another “ more qualified “ person, that the next step should be a “ sniper “
Very interesting the scope recoil absorption (if you will) on this and the '03's you showed us. Highly contradictory to today's methods, wouldn't have ever believed that's really how they did it without seeing it. Thanks for showing Ian.
It is the same type of rifle Carlos Hathcock used in Vietnam, and he had some USMC armorers make a mount for the scope so it could be mounted on a .50 cal. M2 at a firebase that he made the world's longest shot in 1967.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
My grandfather was on the USAF sharpshooter team from the 50's until the 70's, avid hunter, ect. He gave me his favorite rifle a Model 70 in 30-06, bought in 1957.
DON'T EVER SELL IT!! But if you do how much do you want for it? Jk, kind of
How much you want for it
Keeping a blued steel walnut stock M70 with a Unertl running in Vietnam must have been a real challenge.
Not really as these chosen few spent every free moment taking care of the little woman.
One dude in another comment said they're reliable weapons. While he didn't mention how difficult it was to keep the gun itself clean, he did say he absolutely hated the Unertl scope in the jungles of Nam cause the little amount of sunlight effected how well a person could see through it. He also stated the Unertl scope is amazing when you're not in the jungle.
The Army was given an accurized rifle that was difficult to break. The Marines were given a precision instrument and taught how to take care of it.
Contending with the humidity, cyclic heating and cooling between jungle valley and high mountain altitudes, the glare and dust, the deluge of rain, and with these old guns prone to warping of the stock and corrosion of the steel they were still able to record kills at record-breaking distances...man I do respect those fellas for their intimate knowledge of their weapons systems and attention to detail in maintaining them. Semper Fi.
William j Vencill DVM USMC
Those old model 70s are fantastic shooting guns. The bolt is buttery smooth and they handle so good. One of my favorite guns.
The new Model 70s made by Fabrique National-Herstal of Belgium, the firm which now owns Winchester and Browning, are superb rifles, every bit the equal of their older and more-famous big brothers pre-1964. Check one out - you'll be glad you did.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 I thought Winchester quit making rifles
Winchester and Browning are now owned by the Belgian firm Fabrique Nationale Herstal, better-known to Americans as FN. The newest Winchesters being made by FN are of superb quality, if the ones I have seen in circulation are at all representative.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 I want one but can't decide on a caliber. 270, 7mm-08, or 308?
Tough choice.... what will you be using it for? Deer hunting, target practice, varmint hunting? The .270 is a great plains and desert cartridge - hard-hitting and flat-shooting. With a good130-140-grain load, it will handle most any game you find in the lower forty-eight states. I don't know if a seasoned brown bear hunter would use a 270 to hunt Griz or moose, but it is a very capable chambering none-the-less. 7mm-08 is another caliber which has high ballistic efficiency. Those .284-caliber slugs are slippery moving through the air. A lot of people prefer them to a.308 or .270 for white-tail. Short-action cartridge so less recoil than the long-action 270. .308 is the Swiss Army Knife of center-fire rifle cartridges. It isn't the "best" at anything but does most things required of a rifle cartridge well. Very widely-available, economical and well-sorted out in terms of dope. Short-action as well. My personal choice for a single caliber to do it all, hunting-wise (at least in the U.S. and Canada) is the venerable 30-06, but I like all of the ones you mention. The long-action '06 case can be loaded with bullets as light as 110 grains and as heavy as 220 grains. It is widely available not only in North America, but around the world. And since service rifle competitors at Camp Perry have used them for years, there is plenty of dope on the cartridge as a competition round. These days, newer cartridges have replaced it in today's service rifle matches, but you'll still find them in John C. Garand and vintage service rifle competitions. And loaded with the right hunting bullet, the 30-06 is enough medicine for even the big Grizzlies.
The Corps' obsession with marksmanship is rooted in the reality of being a forward deployed expeditionary force. We rarely had heavy weapons in our formative years and marksmanship was therefore the only option.
You’re absolutely correct about the Marine Corps and it’s marksmanship program. I was in Boot Camp in 1956 and we went to camp Matthew in California from San Diego to qualify with the rifle from 100 - 500 yards. From offhand at 100 yard to Prone at the 500 yard line. Even though with my M1 A1 I have a third-generation Springfield rifle scope mounted on it. I’m just more comfortable using M1 sight.
I'm a big peace-nick anti-war hippy, but I have a lot of respect for the marksmanship aspect of the marine corps. Although the point is still killing other human beings, it just seems so much more civilized than sending hundreds or even thousands of soldiers in and just trying to overcome by attrition.
@Javier Pedroza Neither will torture - doesn't mean we should develop an entire sector of government employees to practice it.
@@HeatherSpoonheim nature is constantly at war with itself everywhere you look, we are part of nature.
@@HeatherSpoonheim I hate war too but it's an unpleasant reality, as long as humans exist, war will also exist.
Having read Charles Henderson's biography ("Marine Sniper") of Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, whose primary weapon during his service in Vietnam was a rifle just like this, it's a treat to get a good look at one of these rifles. Thank you.
Paelorian That's a great book.
I'm reading it (again) right now (for about the 4th time)
Yep, read it, and was thinking the same thing. Also, good chance the owner of the rifle here knew Hathcock personally, seeing as they were both shooting competitively.
@@found6393 I met him at Perry in 72.
For all we know, the rifle in this video might’ve been the very rifle Hathcock carried in Vietnam.
As a former Scout Sniper I would love to have this in my collection it screams the "White Feather" R.I.P. Carlos.
KEVLAR1911A1 G21 Truly! When I saw the title I immediately thought of Sgt Hathcock.
I wonder if the Capt. was E.J. Land?
@@boomanh63 Land was a Major...
@@jabbalechat7910 I do believe he was a Captain at the time in VN though I could be wrong, it has been many years since I read Marine Sniper. May have to dig it out of the library and refresh my memory.
Man was a legend... still is actually. He used a fucking browning m2 50 cal with a 10x scope to shoot the longest confirmed kill at the time. He missed the first time and hit a vietcong young teen who was carrying weapons and hit the bike. The second shot made the record at roughly 1.5 miles.
I saw one in use one night end of March 1968 at Khe Sanh. The shooter was working with an M2 gunner who fired tracer rounds single shot back at muzzle flash of NVA to give the rifle shooter an idea of where the shooter was, then the actual engagement was with the rifle. Impressive results.
My great uncle Carl was a sniper in the Vietnam war he never spoke about his time in Vietnam he served all through the war and moved to Germany after becoming a sergant major. He passed just the other day odd how youtube shows the weirdest videos to folks.
That's the longest scope I've ever seen.
check out "scoped sharps rifle"
I love those really long scopes on sniper rifles, old school
Yes they had lacking technology back then but it was still effective but it had side affects.
I hated them. They were fragile as hell, easy to get the adjustment gear filled with mud and mang and the optics are dark and hard to see through. The jungle is not a bright and sunny place..and peering through ones butt hole while looking for the people who are looking for you..was not..not a fun time of my life. The later Leatherwood ART scopes that we in the Army used..were far far superior. Still a bit fragile..but nowhere like the Unertil/Lyman scopes. I should mention that on bright ranges in the open..the Unertil/Lyman scopes are quite good..which is why they can be found on several of my competition rifles today. But my combat rifles..much different scopes.
@@GunnerAsch1 Thank you for your service!
Always great how Ian seems so excited to show these things off and talk about them, definitely appreciates these things way more than I can with my limited knowledge of fire arms. To me it's mostly a historical thing.
It is for him too he even admitted its the engineering and history that facinates him
Hell, I’d be excited too if I got to handle this stuff!
If I got to see and fire these vintage weapons I would be very elated too, I mean extremely grateful and elated lol, Ian is very informative and quite funny at times, just a really honest and courteous host 🇦🇺👍😊
I've considered myself a gun person for most of my life, but I had no idea there was such a thing as a free-floating scope. I learned something new today!
That weapon is Winchester's the rifle of rifleman's. I have one that was manufactured in 1941. Smooth as butter. And I was in Vietnam in 1968.
Let me know if you ever want to sell it. I wont be holding my breath lol
If that rifle could talk.. I bet it would have some amazing stories.
Dimension7 Or one hell of a 'nam flashback
What I say about my two 1939 Tula Mosin 91/30s.
Mosin ppl always find a way to jam the fact that the own 1 of those trash sticks into any kinda gun conversation. It's like those ppl with 1 extra douche tattoo and they always ask about ur tat so they can show their Japanese letters and coy fish tramp stamp...
yeah but I bet his mosin has some good stories
Like winning the war.
The external adjustment configuration, and the "recoil spring" is almost comically primitive. I LOVE IT!
My Dad was a designated marksman in the Corp. Very early Viet Nam. A good chance he used one of these. He was an exceptional shot. His Jr, Small bore rifle team won the national championship in I believe '56. When Winchester visited his local range outside Hood River, to do product demonstrations, he handled a shotgun for the very first time and fired a perfect score. I think that was, at the time, 25 out of 25. Winchester offered him a job on their trick team right then and there, but his Dad forbid it. I guess he was a decent football player too and his Dad didn't want to jeopardize amateur athlete status.He had the 2nd highest qualifying score ever recorded at San Diego during his boot camp. While he was in Viet Nam, a Colonel, I believe, or perhaps a major, made him part of his personal detail, because of his marksmanship. He "worked" in Saigon. Dad didn't talk much about it but I know whatever it was he was doing made him never hunt again after his service. What a designated marksman would do in the S. Vietnamese capitol, I can only speculate. I have a feeling it was not completely above board. He spent his last year of service in Hawaii working at the Officer's Club, a pretty coveted job.So, my feeling is he must have earned it
He had 5 pre-64 model 70's in various calibers, His match .22, made by Winchester a sporterized, match grade 1903-A1, Both shot like lasers, his service pistol that I believe was made by Singer that I couldn't hit jack with and a match grade M1 that was only fired a total of 8 times. This I know because it had never been fired until we ran a clip through it. I was supposed to inherit all of them but my stepmom cut off contact after he passed. I have not a clue what happened to it all but was probably sold it off for a song, as was her nature.
Friend of mine retired from the Marine Corps in 1974. He was a sniper in Vietnam for a number of Tours. The rifle he used the most often was exactly as you exhibit here. He said his longest shot was 1700 yards, though because he frequently worked Behind Enemy Lines, it was not confirmed. Though I have no reason to doubt his veracity as the 308 round is capable of shooting that far with the right load. His Commanding General actually at one point in the war provided him a Weatherby with a lengthened barrel for him to use but he never had the opportunity to test that distance again.
How on earth did I miss this one?? Wow ... just wow!! What a beautiful, gorgeous, fascinating piece of firearms history ... I've read about these rifles but to actually see one, and one with so much provenance ... I think my heart literally skipped a beat. THAT is a rifle!!!
Thanks so much for sharing that with us, Ian, sorry I missed it all those years ago - Mea Culpa! :-(
Awesome! I was in a USMC scout sniper platoon in Iraq and this was an awesome video on the history of USMC sniping.
Ian, Id'e like to complement you on your vocabulary, you're very well spoken and explain things in great detail.
Thanks for the way you put it.
Joe
moving from Springfield's to the Winchester 70 and Remington 700's haven't we essentially just confirmed that Mauser copies meant for hunting are the way to go.
if it ain't broke, why try to fix it?
You can't fix what ain't broke.
sometimes you get away with the best at the first go around...
The Mauser is a fantastic design, no question about it, and it definitely laid the foundation for the modern bolt action rifle. I would argue, however, that the P14 is actually superior to the Mauser because of the smoothness and the speed of the cock on closing design. Also, the Mauser 98 action is somewhat too flexible for Maximum accuracy, such that modern designs have opted for a far more rigid, all encompassing receiver design. Having said that, they pretty much all use the Mauser 98 as a starting point for improvements.
See my comment above
My Dad was Army he had a Remington M40. Then an M21 while he served. He used to say wish i had a Winchester. But was glad to get the M21. He is now old and a sports shooter. And yep has a custom M21 and a Winchester M70 SS. And swears by the 308
My father was a Camp Perry competitor. He had 2 of these scope. The plunger that holds the tube against the adjustment knobs is also spring loaded. Thanks Ian.
I had a chance when I was 18 to buy a model 70 just like this with the same scope but in 8x from a pawn shop. I went to borrow the money from my dad and came back and it was gone. But I currently own a model 70 in 30.06, .325wsm, 7mm mag, and .308. Greatest bolt guns I've got.
You and Karl should do a video distinguishing the difference between Snipers and Designated Marksmen and the kind of equipment that they'd use
A designated marksman was issued an M14 EBR and given a 2 week course on marksmanship in 2011. It was a bit of a joke really. They were meant to bridge the gap between riflemen with M4s and 240 gunners such as myself. Our SDM hardly ever fired his rifle in combat, he just never really needed to and honestly was usually my assistant gunner. It was another case of the army mismanaging what could've been an excellent tool.
AND....both Karl & Ian taking turns shooting this M70 rifle as well the the M40.
Interestingly, some used Winchester 70's in WW2 as well. Very small amount but for the very same reason as in Vietnam. The US has a long history with this gun.
Some years ago, I chanced upon a B-Model Winchester 52 with an 8x Unertl scope with the "Marine Sniper" marking an a valid Unertl serial number. The rifle was in excellent condition; the scope was pitted externally and quite yellow in the view. Long a fan of Win 52s, I snapped it up, took off the scope, and installed a set of Redfield Olympic sights that I had grown up with on other 52s. It wasn't until later that I learned that the collector's value of the scope was more, substantially more, than the value of a good condition Model 52B with Speedlock!
1 Vietcong who saw this video still has a 30-06 in his hip
*in his face
fixed that for you :P
bruh
@@jabloko992 ajfjehfhdjqgrjfcj
And his family has cancer from agent orange .
Y’all psychos
The Navy also used this same rifle and spring loaded scope mounts, but had a "Super Spot" scope,. Same sporter stock, same heavy barrel. The bolts floats like wet glass and not 1 sound and trigger pull is set at a very crisp, light touch. Its sighted in for 1000 yards.
Cool stuff, thanks! A documented, real deal, early Marine M70 with an Unertl scope! Fragile as they were, Unertl scope did the job! Thanks Ian!
Thanks for showing this part of sniper rifle evolution. At least one M70 of similar configuration was used (and recounted in print) in the Pacific Theater in WWII, Korea also. Unertl scope mounts were aluminum, either black or natural anodized, and could be had in "dehorned" configuration, wherein the target adjustment knobs, as on the RIA auction example, we're replaced with mounts containing knurled, shorter adjustment knobs (less prone to inadvertent adjustment "in the field"). The return to battery spring can be compressed by the attached, knurled thumb screw to adjust it's tension for differing recoil requirements.
This particular style of M70 configuration--checkered sporter stock, 24" Target barrel--is a direct descendant of the Winchester M54 Sniper Rifle configuration, and predates the M70 Varmint Rifle style, which was standard with 26" bbl. Often, the dates on underside of these 30-06 bbls will be much earlier than the dates of production that the receivers' serial numbers indicate, meaning the rifles were assembled with unused, inventory bbls, some dating to M54 production.
That inertial spring deal is wild!
Ian always comes through with the good stuff.
how about an interview with a marine armorer who dealt with the wide range of sniper rifles
Sir_Godz I once talked to Ed Land, so that was cool.
@@connormclernon26 Ed land ? I may be thinking or Eric England but is ed land fameous ?
Nick Levine guy who was the superior officer to Carlos Hathcock. My memory of the name might be off tho
@@connormclernon26 yeah your completely right I am thinking of another sniper with 98 confirmed kills Edward James land
@me Me what was the most common and when did they start using .308 instead of 30-06 for sniping .
Ian, as always such a great history lesson, and presented in a very interesting way. Thank you very much.
I remember reading Hathcock’s book and he mentioned moving the scope back after a shot, I was puzzled by this. Now I’m more learned.
Great channel mate.👍
nothing forgotten about the usmc M-70' Remington sniper Rifle
Cool. I hunt with a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 with a Vortex Diamondback II 9x scope. Great gun.
They also re-barreled alot of these to shoot 7.62x51 and left them as a long action. Which is now a really cool concept because as a reloader, having a longer action you can shoot longer length 7.62 or. 308 that you could out of the short actions magazine and not have feeding issues
This the same rifle that Carlos Hathcock used in Vietnam. Its worth reading his book and the fight John Lands USMC snipers had in using these opposed to the M1. But they were so successful that it was permitted. My dad actually spent time with him and Australian troops copied him. But back then the Aussies used Mausers in 7.62 with Zeiss Scopes.
I have been watching your shows or years . this is by far one of my favorites thank you for your time.
I carried one of these in Vietnam in 65 66, I went through the first sniper school at the base of hill 327. I was in Golf 2/9. I'd love to buy this rifle. How do I get in contact with the seller... and how much is it selling for. The Colonel who owned the rifle may have been the Captain that was in charge of the school in Vietnam.
@Patrick Rapan stop
You sound a lot like a Nazi for someone who accuses others of being holocaust deniers
@@derkuchen8974 Wtf brought us here? This poor vet was just looking to see if he could buy this rifle and this all turned into a pissing contest
@@Nick-px6yy There should be a scientific study that confirms that any youtube comment will eventually devolve into name-calling, insults and nazis of some form will be mentioned, regardless. I could comment 'nice video' and 10 replies down people are wishing each other cancer.
@@jabloko992
Ah, you're referring to Jonathan Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory :)
It simply states thus:
Any Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad.
I have two Unertil 10x Scopes, one is on a 1903 Springfield that was chambered for 22-250. The other is mounted on a Pre War double trigger Mauser that was barreled in .243 Winchester. My Father bought them both at Abercrombie & Fitch in NYC back in the fifties.
I got one from my great grandad that was manufactured in 1958 was unfired when I got it, best rifle I've ever had
Your series and narration are superb. (The promotion for the auction at the end was very discreet and tasteful.) Also, it was fascinating to see how the elevation and windage scope mechanism was implemented. Elegant simplicity that had me slapping my head saying, "of course!"
Thank you very much.
This "evolution" series is great , Id love to see it for other guns and countries
I wish you'd made mention of the target shooting features on the rifle, including the milled stripper clip slot for reloading during rapid fire matches along with the screw holes in the receiver and installed front sight base for mounting a set of target sights. A fine rifle and an interesting cross over between the target world and sniper field.
Another sniper with the M1907 sling. Could you do a video explaining how to properly use the sling to aid a better shot?
Not trying to give a pat answer, but consider attending a marksmanship workshop from the Appleseed Project, a non-profit devoted to teaching Americans traditional field marksmanship skills as well as some of our founding history. You'll learn to shoot a rifle from field positions using a sling - prone, sitting, kneeling, standing (off-hand). In brief, the sling is used to provide stability in the absence of a bipod or shooting bench.
They made one in .243 too ! Knew a guy who hunted deer and chucks with it. 1 shot 1 kill was his game. He loaded his own brass with pointed soft point bullets as I recall. Damn accurate and deadly !
May the ALMIGHTY White Feather R.I.P.
He changed the way the "Sniper" role is played now.
I brought my rifle home from 'Nam. It is an M-21, Winchester model 70 in 30-06 with a 3-9 power Redfield scope. It served me well. Since I got home it has taken many Deer, Elk and Bear so it continues to serve me as well as it ever did.
When I think of a sniper my brain always thinks of Carlos Hathcock or Charles 'Chuck' Mawhinney.
Of that finnish guy whobhad half his face blown off in the finnish russian war they called him white death...and he only used a mosin on iron sights
@iwhdbid josksjbx explosive bullet
My father, a USMC rifle team member, told me the first service rifle shooter to go clean over the national match course at Camp Perry was using an M1. This was in the late 50’s or early 60’s.
There was a story of a Marine in Vietnam who crawled in tall grass all on his own for three days to snipe a NVA General. He succeeded and crawled all the way back while the enemy searched for him stepping within 10 feet of him. The stuff that soldiers did back then earns my respect no matter what side they fought for.
that was in a movie
@@triumphmanful yes, based on Carlos Hathcock. It really happened. The book is Marine Sniper, 93 confirmed kills. It is a great read.
My dad had a deer rifle custom made in the 70's using a springfield action but fired .25 06 necked down from stantard .30 06. He harversted alot of deer with that rifle. I got myself a couple with it.
Wow... someone is selling an amazing sniper rifle collection. I don't know how they can, I wouldn't be able to part with any of them.
Some collector probably died and his wife and kids are selling it all off.
Which is also completely nuts.
Nah makes sense if they are not into guns. There may also be medical bills or other debt maybe it was keep the guns or keep the house. Maybe it was send the grandkids to collage. There could be any number of reasons you would rather have cash then some wall ornaments.
Ian states in the video this rifle is part of an estate sale, so perhaps the owner has expired and his possessions sold.
It was originally offered to the USMC in 1942. As you said it was Poo Pooed by the brass. Some still made their way to the Pacific Theater. I have a 1937 M70 in 30 GOVT'06 with an 8x UNERTL ; 20" hunting barrel. First shot hits at 500 Meters (547 Freedom Units) at a 30cm square (12 little Freedom Units) with a 150 grain bullet.
From:Sears and Roebuck To:USMC Contents:Rifles I'm sure the postman was wondering why he had to deliver guns to the Marines lol
What are your thoughts on a 7MM compared to the .06?
What a great series you have created Ian, thank you! I've always loved History and weapons but was relatively ignorant of some of the history, details and arcane types of weapons made. I've really enjoyed and hope to further my horizons with your videos!
I could probably find Pluto in a few minutes on a starry night with that damned scope.
I read several several Marine sniper books on Vietnam. They were able to get match grade ammo. They had to sight in the scope ( or verify it ) whenever they got a different batch or lot# of ammo.
Same holds true for snipers and all marksmen of today
I recommend tracking down Carlos Hathcock's book where he goes into great detail how he used this rifle in combat. His role in the USMC in Vietnam was as extended reconnaissance and long range sniping, targetting North VN army officers. In one memorable mission he lay in a grass field for two days waiting to kill an enemy general.
As the most goods coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail to the "beak" actually was located with the area of responsibility of the Australian units, he talks about the differences in patrolling with US and Australian forces, specially the latter who adopted completely silent, sterile patrolling and with no back to base radios. Its a good read.
You Aussies really led the way in Vietnam and have always been great friends to the U.S. Great people, too...
The Aussies were excellent troops, who had extensive training in jungle warfare, as well as recent operational experience in the Malayan emergency.
i had a M70 pre 64 3006 exactly like this right down to the 14x Unertl scope. It was a lot of fun to shoot....i even had a few boxes of 1967 LC match 173 gr FMJ ammo. I had the rifle zeroed at 500 yrds most of the time. One morning early i got into my deer blind to hunt hogs with M70. The feeder was 490 yrds from the blind....at sunrise a lone boar came to the feeder. The LC match ammo did its job....DRT. That is the only hog i killed with M70 before i sold it. Wish i hadn't sold it now.
One name comes immediately to mind when looking at this magnificent rifle: Carlos Hathcock
Fantastic job, Ian. One of your best videos.
Why was it that they ended up choosing the Remington over the Winchester to make the M40? Maybe it's a my rifle is better than yours thing but I've heard so much praise for the winchester over the 700, at least pre-65 versions.
In a nutshell, Procurement Politics. Remington marketed itself better to the soldiers who had final say on things. As for the differences, there really is not any and it is just a matter of personal preference which is mostly in the mind of the user. They are both simple sporting Mausers and all arguments to the contrary are just picking nits off an Elephant's arse.
Eustace Stritchers That makes a lot of sense, I figured it was gonna be a pricing or someone was bought out deal like you see on a lot of military firearms(at least did see in the past)
Thanks for explaining.
warriorwolf77 I wish I could give you lots of details and names and such, but such information is generally buried deep in archives and nearly always paint the same picture. US Procurement, as shown by Ian with many weapons, is a very complicated and convoluted process and it is almost never possible to say that there was one decisive factor that determined the decision.
Eustace Stritchers I'd be nice to know the specifics but if it's not possible then no worries, probably would really come down to mundane stuff like that.
Not to say your answer wasn't good enough but I'm interested in what Ian has to say too considering how much he reads on weapons he might have something you and I don't know.
Does it really matter what company was chosen? It's just a bolt action rifle built to spec. I'm guessing the decision had more to do with price and quantity.
I went to a gun show this past weekend (James D. Julia had a booth set up there too actually) and recognized a bunch of the rifles at the show thanks to your recent videos of scoped rifles. There was an M1C or D, MC-1952 (with the lens covers!), a 1903 with the 8x version of this scope (1903A1 I think), and a 1903A4 with the upgraded scope. Also a G43 which was really cool to finally see and handle in person, a semi auto Bren, a beautiful No.4 Mk.III, and a K98 that had most of its role marks removed and a serial number starting with an "M" which I thought was odd.
30-06 bolt rifle with decent glass... Still my go-to for dialing long distance.
Those sliding-mount scopes though. Seems like kind of a good idea. Wonder why it was abandoned in more modern designs.
likely due to modern scopes being shock resistant.
Sir_Godz Yes... The good, expensive ones. But this does seem like a less expensive way to get recoil-tolerant zero than internal buffers.
I imagine that the tolerances would need to be prohibitively tight to keep the zero at extended ranges with a sliding device like that.
The rigors of military field service would probably loosen that up quite a bit.
Unertl built extremely tough optics, which is one of the reasons they had the contract with the 'Corps for so long. Those long, external-adjustment scopes were good kit, but since the mechanism was exposed, it was open to the elements and therefore accelerated corrosion, dirt build-up, etc. Also the length and sheer size of the scope and its mount created problems for the guys carrying them. Regardless of manufacturer, both the Army and Marine Corps had persistent problems with optics during the Vietnam war, mostly due to the extreme heat, near-constant rain and high humidity of the SE Asian jungle. Scopes fogging up, components not holding together in the heat and wet, and so on. Once the war was over, the services searched for better gear, which may have opened the door somewhat for Unertl competitors. According to an internet search, it looks like the Marine Corps began phasing out Unertl scopes in the early 2000s. By 2008, it - the company - had closed its doors and folded. External adjustment optics have been used by other companies, some with considerable success. Earnest Leitz - Canada (Elcan) uses the principle in their scopes, which are standard issue for the Canadian army for use on their Colt-Canada C7 rifles (a variant of the M16).
Having read about Mr Hathcock (RIP), they used ammunition with 173gn Sierra boattail bullets. Some Australian police snipers used .308W with the same projectile, at least up until 2012.
I'm a simple guy, if I see "Vietnam" in the title that is related about the Vietnam War, I watch
I'm sorry sam, but i just can't justify the systematic murder of jungle folk too simple too know where we are on earth…but they were threatening the blah blah blah
Bo Huggabee ok
Bo Huggabee ok
Vietnam was caught in the middle of the America vs communism war.
Its a shame a beautiful country had to be made a battleground by corrupt banksters.
@@treatb09 lmao im vietnamese
In the Marine Corps ,there’s quite a bit of equipment they get comes out of the Navy budget. When I got discharge from the Marine Corps in 1959 and join the army a couple months later . WhenI reported to the army base in California and was assigned to a company. The army then was equipped with M 14 rifles and M-60 machine gun and in the Marine Corps we still had M1rifles and 30 caliber machine gun. When I was in 12th special forces in 1965 ,as far as I’m aware of the Air Force was the only one that had the M-16s ,but we also had them in special forces which was the first time I had ever seen one that was assigned to any kind of unit even though I was familiar with them.
It looked to me like this rifle had guide for a stripper clip. This seems odd for both a civilian hunting rifle and for a sniper rifle since you could not use clips anyway. Was this something that was custom ordered by the Marines or was that sometimes done by Winchester like Remington did with the model 8? Or am I mistaken entirely?
The Model 70 Target was made that way for the rapid fire events of the National Match Course. Used iron sights for those- you can see the front sight block on the barrel. They competed against Springfields a lot.
Civilian target rifles such as a Mod. 70 Win. had notched receivers to accept stripper clips for use in rapid fire High Power Competition.
Remington also did this with the 40x, some people milled their own, and others drilled and tapped the receiver to add a stripper clip guide to guns like the Remington 700, generally for cmp type competition in the open division, where your string of shots are done within a par time for each shooting position, standing, sitting, prone at 200, 300, 600 yards or meters.
Not sure if the receiver itself was notched - my stripper clip guide mounts to the receiver via rear scope mount holes.
Now that is what you call a telescopic sight, very effective and looks the part.
I have a '59 Model 70 featherweight in .30-06, One of my favorite rifles too shoot.
Ian, Your Springfield, Garand and now this M70 sniper series coverage is just excellent. High marks for the intelligent, concise clarification and illustration of all written information I found in the works of reference ! I'm sorry I never found the Brophy book, btw......
I wonder if dice ever contacted you in relation to Battlefield 1 stuff
If they did, I would most likely have signed an NDA.
hypothetically, of course.
I fucking hate those NDA's, it makes no sense, we're gonna find out anyways, it's a game not nuclear launch codes.
Chronoteeth dice doesn't give a rat's ass about realism
Actually, they kinda give attention to realism, well, more attention than that of Activision's developers.
your vernacular is fantastic. Love your videos!
I had a scope just like it on a bench rest .22-250...very good and sub 1" groups. Mauser action. Should have kept it.
Never. Sell. A Gun.
That’s the strangest scope I’ve ever seen. Particularly because of the sighting adjustment system. Thanks, Ian.
Looking forward to the M40
Your eye has to be so close it actually almost touches the Unertl scope when you fire it. . .They used to make them just north of Pittsburgh, so I've seen quite a few of them. . .They are sensitive. . .and can be bumped out of true very easy, . . but are easy to recalibrate. . . There are early commercial scopes with blued steel scope mounts and high polish blued tubes. There is supposed to be a set of lens caps and a big lanyard with elastic, and a sock slip cover. . . at least on the commercial versions.
Designated Rifleman is kinda the middle ground between the standard infantry man, and a specialized sniper team. That's the way I always heard it explained. An infantry man can shoot at medium distance. A DMR is part of the same squad and gets those baddies that can't quite be reached by the rest of his group, and the specialized sniper is a separate team brought in to do those really difficult super long distance jobs no body else has the skill or the equipment to handle. Kinda right?
DMRs overlap their missions with scout-snipers somewhat, but the DMR characteristically does not receive nearly the same amount of specialized training in field-craft, stalking, reconnaissance, observation, and other specialist skills. DMRs are highly-trained marksmen capable of bridging the gap between infantry and crew-served weapons, air and artillery. Don't the idea that DMRs are anything less than useful; they're very valuable. It is simply that they're different than scout-snipers in terms of their training, employment and role.
DM isn't really about longer range, but using 1 or 2 shots vs. 30 to hit 1 target. eg; Pyle, take out that M.G. right now.
Designated marksmen - also sometimes called SDM's for"squad designated marksmen" - close the 300-600 yard gap which exists between standard infantry armed with assault rifles and dedicated scout-snipers and also crew served weapons which get many missions out past 600 yards/meters (USMC uses yards, Army meters). DM's can handle some of the missions a scout-sniper trained man could do, but not all of them, as DM's do not receive the same training in field-craft, stalking, scouting, and reconnaissance that scout-snipers do. And at least in the Corps, scout-snipers operated in two-man teams during the Vietnam era, whereas DM's are usually singletons. The designated marksman title was not formally recognized in Vietnam, as it had not yet come into being - at least formally in terms of the table of organization and equipment. Getting back to the two-man team used by the 'Corps in Vietnam: One man behind the rifle, one to spot, calculate the dope, prepare the range card, call out corrections, and also to handle the radio and rear/flank security. Spotters were often, but not always, the senior, more well-qualified and experienced man, given the demands of the job. In 'Nam, Marine snipers used bolt-action rifles, either the Winchester M70 30-06 as shown here, or its replacement, the Remington Model 700 in 7.62x51 NATO. Whereas the spotter usually had an M-14with iron sights. As well as whatever secondary weapons the team elected to bring along. Back in the present, scout-sniper teams are used as often for their scouting/reconnaissance skills asthey are for their skill putting lead on target. Being that we live in the digital age, an important role for modern-day teams is target identification and then painting with a laser, which a PGM (precision-guided munition) can then ride down onto the target. So-called HRT teams - "hard-target interdiction" teams - are scout-sniper teams trained/equipped for specific anti-material missions, such as Special Ops teams in Gulf War I who took out Scud missiles with Barrett .50-caliber rifles, from way out there, distances of 1500 or more meters.
Thank goodness for modern scopes.
3:53 Hamon Overdrive!
Sunlight Yellow Overdrive !
Oh my god. Or more accurately OOOOH MAAAH GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHD!
Carlos Hathcock used a rifle and scope like these. The crazy scope that slides thru the rings when shot.
I had the pleasure of training with Gunny Carlos Heathcock and he used this weapon.
@Patrick Rapan would you "STAHP" going around saying that !!
I love how self built these rifles look but still look professional.
The rifle of one of the greatest legends in Marine Corps history. Is this the same kind of optic Hathcock would've been using?
Yes appears to be, but Hathcocks did not have the spring on the scope. And I read that his was set on 8 power.
+bigdave1917 Hathcock used a model 70 in 30-06. What you're describing is the m40. Those weren't around when He got started. He got one after they came out.
Source?
Christian Levine
Hathcock's book One Shot One Kill.
that is where the 50 caliber bmg turned into a sniper rifle…the 50 caliber machine guns were better sniper rifles than the bolt actions..
At the time the long external adjustable scopes were more reliable when it came to returning to zero and repeatable click adjustments for target shooting. The adjustable mounts were even used for a kind of iron sight called a tube sight which at the time were considered more precise than any of the iron sights available. Internal ajustable scopes have improved a lot and I'm not sure you would find many of the long scopes on the firing line at Camp Perry any more but I wouldn't be surprised. It isn't uncommon to still see small bore target rifles with scope blocks for the long Unertl and Lyman scopes.
I love this rifle, my dad taught me to shoot with this before I enlisted in the Marines
There is a difference between being "technically proficient" & having the "gift". I'm ok, I was even my Company marksmanship NCO...but I didn't have the "gift"
But I have seen people with it & it's a joy to behold. I clicked when you said some troops caried their own weapons. My Dad, a Col. with MACV, came back with two weapons he had "aquidred?" Judas, an octagonal barled lever action from the late 1800s & a French MAS 12 guage side by side, beautifly engraved with the name of the officer who carried it.
Sometimes it's run what ya brung
Did some serious US sniper rifle collector die or go into a nursing home, placing these rare artifacts on the market again? I know their is confidentiality with the auction house.
If you watch the video Ian says that this is from the estate of an ex-marine who was the captain of the rifle team at Camp Pendleton.
Missed or I wouldn't have asked question. A very successful neurosurgeon, WW2/Korean War vet that was in our collectors' association ended up in skilled nursing care prior to passing. Family liquidated his collection of 70+ years with many very exotic and interesting pieces re-entering market. His family did however ask for privacy from auction house. This situation is reason I asked Ian question.
Shane K It's true, he was a founding member of out association in 1954. I managed a "Zulu shotgun", about all I could afford at time, at auction from his collection. He mentored many young collectors. If he was still around I'm certain he and Ian would have lots to talk about.
USMC Gunny Sgt Carlos Hathcock used something akin to this, he's a legend within the sniper community, now he's sniping on the other side, if god wants rabbit for lunch, he calls Hathcock who learned sniping from hunting for his family's dinner. Hatchcock even used a 50 cal w a scope on top for some shooting in Nam, how effective was that, use a oiuja board to connect w the NVA he sent to the other side for a review. Enjoying the vids, keep up the good work.
So is this the last of your sniper rifle series ?
For the time being, yes.
:(
Think you can get your hands on a PSG-1, Champ?
ask him that a couple of days ago, didn't get an answer? love to see on myself !!!
I've actually handled the only sequentially #'d pair of PSG's in the US. Trade in's from a michigan SWAT team. $30k was the price for the pair and they sold nearly immediately. They were VERY heavy and the Hensoldt 6x's with the eye cup would take some getting used to.
2:46 I live right near camp Pendleton and I hear the booms of them testing stuff all the time.
That is so cool... could you do a Winchester 70 vs. Remington 700? Especially as used by marksmen in the military?
In high school I think I read every book on sniping in Vietnam I could find. Jim Land, Carlos Hathcock, etc. Gave me a good 15 year throwback 😁
By the way ,the Marine Corps has never had “ a designated marksman” , the premier is that every Marine is rifle qualified and there’s no need for another “ more qualified “ person, that the next step should be a “ sniper “
Very interesting the scope recoil absorption (if you will) on this and the '03's you showed us. Highly contradictory to today's methods, wouldn't have ever believed that's really how they did it without seeing it. Thanks for showing Ian.
Would you be interested in adopting a 27 year old man-child?
Jesus adopts all
Peepoo BEepoo, Amen brother
Yeah, I could eat
As Gun-Jesus said "let the children come to me, and give them all some .22s"
It is the same type of rifle Carlos Hathcock used in Vietnam, and he had some USMC armorers make a mount for the scope so it could be mounted on a .50 cal. M2 at a firebase that he made the world's longest shot in 1967.