Ride with More Speed & Comfort (with a Midfoot Cleat Position?)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 окт 2020
- Channel Subscription: bit.ly/2Vfd4mO
FREE eBook: www.camnicholls.com/ebook-5steps
Join Email Newsletter: camnicholls.com/contact/
About Neill Stanbury: neillsbikefit.com.au/
Cleat Adjusters: mid-foot-cycling.com/
Cycle faster with more comfort using a midfoot cleat position? This is certainly a cycling topic that I have never delved into, and one that expert bike fitter Neill Stanbury wanted to raise in this video. A cycling tip like no other! Neill will share both the pros and cons of riding with a midfoot cleat position and will also explain how you would go about placing the cleat in the middle of your cycling shoe!
#bike #fitting #tips 
Спорт
*Great **Latest.Bike** , good looking, good suspension and love the gearing. I've tested some bikes that were more then twice the price but not as good. Get lots of looks when riding.*
I ride cleats fully back. Bike fit Tuesdays Francis Cade
^^This! :)
Moderation. Maybe somewhere in the middle for me.
I do ride on fully back cleat position. Slight heel in and no more knee pain
@@turbojigger Yup, I never knew where/what place, watched Cade Bike Fit Tuesday's and said push right back, no harm, been a great move, thanks Francis Cade!
Neil's expertise is invaluable and refreshing... always a pleasure to watch him on the tube. He's a wealth of knowledge... and the information is so crucial for a better understanding of bike fitting. A cyclist could (in essence) spend 8 hours in a bike fitter's studio and not learn as much as what Neil has brought to this channel. Thank you Neil... keep it comin':-)
Bike Fit James is also a big advocate of rear cleat placement.
Great one Cam! Good to see together you both are raising awareness of bike fitting concepts and ideas!
I've enjoyed all of Neil's videos so much. Complex stuff going on, but he explains things logically and in such an engaging way that you can't help but watch, learn and then try things out!
YES. I've been waiting for weeks about this subject. I was hoping it would come. I've heard about it in triathlon and gave it a try. Works well for me.
Think I mentioned previously I’ve rode a mid-foot cleat position for many years. Enabled me to ride without knee pain. Just passing 11000km for the year. Has been a win for me 👍🏼
This is something I have been doing for 5 -6 years with my clients. Everyone is super excited about this. Nice to see that people are now working this way.
Once again a great video, thank you! I love listening to you and Neill discuss this stuff, and also Bike Fit James on Francis Cade’s channel - very different presentation styles but both excellent at what they do. It’s not a specific question for Neill but it would be good to tap into his knowledge as a sports physio and hear about off the bike routines for strength and stretching, especially opening up the hips as so many of spend so much time sitting at desks these days. Cheers, keep up these great videos!
A another great bike fit video, keep them coming learning more each video.
Thanks! I actually had the discussion last time with my bike fitter. He's quite positive about it. I've also ridden with my cleats all the way back for a long time. Suggestion for another video: how to determine stance width.
Been struggling with inefficient power output with my cleats forward (attack position) for many months now until I came across your videos. Haven't looked back since moving my cleats back. I used to struggle to average 24-26 kph. I now cruise at 27kph and can feel there is still room for improvement with fitness gains.
Thanks guys for posting useful info. I had the foot numbness and sore toe issues after riding for 1.5 hours. Now with the cleats back it's gone and I found my speed time has improved as well.
I've been using mid foot cleats for many years and I love it. Another HUGE benefit not mentioned is the increase in hip angle, MUCH more than a shorter crank.
Thank you very much for another educational bike fitting VLog with Neil.
Thanks for the video, Cam. I finally broke down and cut the rubber lug on my shoe that was preventing me from running my cleat all the way back on my MTB shoes. Your videos with Neil have been really useful, and helped me with my fit on the bike (I may need some RCA help for my power issues, but we'll see :) ). Keep up the great work. It's really appreciated.
great information. just starting to take cycling more seriously and getting my first pair of cleat shoes soon and had no idea about midfoot or the benefits of it. really excited to try it. great vid and very well explained
I’ve positioned my old shimanos as far back as I could a few years ago. I have a size 15 foot. The repositioning allows me to be more balanced and really improved my power. It also resulted in less ankle strain and knee pain. The only downside was as he said, I had to start tweaking the seat height and stem heights. But in the end it has worked out very well.
My friend races downhill mtb in clipless pedals (obviously mtb ones) and he slams his cleats back to reduce foot fatigue and soreness in his arches. I love these videos so much! It’s like another class that I do and something I actually care about thanks so much for making them!
Just ordered the patro cleats and will give this a go. I have felt like I naturally needed my foot more forward on the pedal before I'd seen this video but couldn't find a product to do it.
I picked up a pair of the patrocleats after you mentioned them in another video. Riding a size larger Lake shoes to accommodate my freaky wide hobbit feet these have really helped put my feet in a significantly more comfortable position. Thanks for all the bike fitting advice. Amazing resource to have!
I drilled the soles on my bonts, to move my Spd cleats back (bonts seem ideal for this as they have large/ relatively flat soles). I noticed all of the benefits mentioned. I have broken many bones in my feet and used to struggle with numbness, no problems at all anymore, out of the saddle still feels good to me as well. I used to point my toes down so it allowed me to lower my saddle a long way as well, roughly 60mm.
Just recovering from double Halux Valgus surgery last autumn and am working towards my first Étape in a couple years. Will be buying a pair of Lake CX 241”s and will definitely be trying out fore/aft cleat adjustment for the first time in 40 years of cycling. Not to mention the other top tips such as saddle height, fore aft, crank length etc. Thanks Neill and Cam 🙌
These videos with Neill are invaluable, Cam! Moving the cleats back and scooting the seat forward a bit have been a revelation for me. I feel a lot more powerful on the bike. Can’t thank you enough for these videos!
Awesome to hear 👍
Here's how I modified my speedplay cleats to mid foot. Some say it's impossible, but I figured it out. Here's the instructions:ruclips.net/video/veyvT7k830o/видео.html
I’ve been riding midfoot for about 6 years..love it.
Thanks for sharing on thread mate 👍
Thank you Cam, thank you Neil... Appreciate your wisdom!!!
Appreciate this Cam .Have set cleats back.Brilliant .
Thank you for the tips Cam
Curious why Neil used to ride mid-foot, but isn't now? He said he rode it like this for a few months, but doesn't appear to be still doing it. These videos are so helpful and thought provoking, love them.
I've needed the cleat adjusters my entire cycling life! Would never have known they existed if I hadn't seen your video. I've always felt I needed to get my Shimano cleats back a little bit as they always feel like they are in front of the ball of my foot rather than under or just a bit back. Thanks!
Nice one Brian, thanks for sharing. Hope they work out well. Cam
I had the same problem. Lucky enough to have Neill as my bikefitter (yay Queensland) and he fitted me to speedplays and Shimano road shoes. My cleats are now significantly further back than they were before and I can really feel the difference. Neill should really find a way to do online fittings. :)
On my TT shoes the cleats are way back and I am able to put out about 10% more power on the TT bike than on my road bike. Makes me way faster on the TT next to all the aerodynamics; I still don't know why I struggle to put out that power on my road bike. Great video again! Cheers
Over the last month I installed mtb flat pedals as a cheap way to test the mid foot position. It really works, overall I feel fresher over longer distances and more stable in the saddle.
Give it a try, even on some cheap mtb pedals - I don't think you will be disappointed.
This guy is great. He's very good at explaining things but moreso, he has a lot of knowledge to explain.
frequent watcher of your videos, this video uploaded 3 years ago, popped up in suggested. SO INFORMATIVE, this channel is wayyy to underrated and number of subscribers doesn't reflect the content quality
I have the Swiss plates and they are great. I’ve only gone the first 12mm back, with the look cleats then slammed as well, I should try the 24mm spots and see if I can finally really get rid of the numb tingling toes. A word of caution, though, as when your cleats that far back, your feet can now more easily interfere with the front tire when turning, so, you have fewer options to pedal through turns. I’ve become rather used to it, but it’s kind of “a thing”. These are great videos and I’ve learned a lot, they are a real service to the community.
Interesting to hear, thanks for sharing mate
I've tried several positions and always come back to the classic version.
Oh man I was just thinking to move the cleats further back on my left foot since it was feeling a bit numb, but I wasn't thinking to move it super far. Now I'm going to see about moving the cleats all the way back on both feet.
After bell mentioned the 3 bolt adapters last time I got a set. They are great and really well made. I've been using speedplays with the extension player for years and noticed that when I went back to Keo's I started to get hot foot and discomfort. The revised mid foot position has now meant greater comfort using the keo cleats.
Again a great video Cam informative without preaching. Thanks mucker. 😉👍 Noson dda o Gymru. Diolch.
That's really good info for the thread mate, thanks for sharing your experiences. Much appreciated. Cam
I want to say thank you to Neil. I recently got some shoes that finally allowed me to put the cleat in the middle of my shoe. The first ride it felt a bit strange and was unnatural to clip in. Now it feels like hips are where they naturally want to be, and in turn has increased my power. Happy New year
nice info from a guy who really knows. unfortunately us yetis blessed with size 49 feet have a limited amount of area to move those cleats back!!! also of interest are the pedals which come in extra wide, e.g. dura ace, etc. they have been a big improvement for this super clydesdale!
For non-racers/sport riders who like to maintain a fairly 'brisk' pace, but aren't concerned with wattage output, etc., it seems tha mid-foot would be a good option. My main concern is to ride without pain in the balls of my feet. If mid-foot will eliminate that, I'm ready to give it a try! Great video (as usual).
Hi there from the other side of the globe(Netherlands) I am trying to apply his very well explained advice on my bike and cleats. Struggling a lot due to operations on my left ankle, knee, and a couple of stainless steel screws in my back and a damaged nerve knot. So is`t a bit of a challenge for me. But with your great videos I should achieve some points. Many thanks for that !!
Mid foot placement is extreme if stabilization of lower leg is the goal. I have 20 years as mechanic/service manger. Started moving cleats back for riders around 2012... Seems to me the relationship is between foot length and fore/aft cleat placement. The longer the foot the more leverage on the ankle requiring more lower leg musculature to stabilize. As the cleat is moved rearward a point is reached where the lower leg no longer needs to stabilize the foot but ankle movement is only marginally compromised allowing for a more fluid pedal stroke and less total vertical knee movement. This point is different for everyone as foot length and musculature varies. Start at the traditional cleat position and move rearward by ~3mm at a time. The rider will notice immediately when lower leg is disengaged during most of the pedal stroke.
Nice insights thanks for sharing on the thread mate
As a "bigfoot" (i.e., size 48 EU), I've often wondered if my large foot size is impacting my pedals stroke and if a mid-sole cleat position would benefit me. However, an issue that comes with huge feet is that if I move the cleat back significantly, that'll introduce significant tire overlap with my shoe.
As a really short person that always has toe overlap even with shorter feet: toe overlap isn’t the end of the world (if it’s not too extreme), so just try it (: u need to be slightly more aware of where ur feet are at really low speeds and really really tight bends but how often are we going that slow around bends that aggressive…
I solved my achilles tendonitis overnight by going to mid foot on flat pedals. But it took a physio with a triathlon background to take interest in my case before it was even suggested. I'm now riding clipless but with the cleats slammed. Next time I have problems I'll be trying out those Swiss adapters.
Very interesting. I’m going to give it a go and move my cleats back - see if that helps my numb feet. Thank you so much for these videos! 👍🙏
Love the content by the way 👍🏻
Great content, thanks for posting! I drilled holes in my MTB shoes so that I could place my cleats as far back as the internal compartment would allow, and most of all the strange knee pain is gone. And out of the saddle I fill much stronger because I'm not trying to balance my weight solely on my toes. Plus the saddle height is reduced so I have less pressure on my lower back. Game changer for me.
Hi, would you explain how many mm was the set.back distance and the saddle lowering ? Tank so much
@@gabrieleiaccheri820 I couldn't tell you, because I go on feel. When all the pain in my knees stopped, and I felt comfortable on long rides, I knew the bike was setup right.
Awesome video Cam, love seeing more of Neill on this channel. I know you have a bunch of fitting video, but could you make one on how to get a good fit during Quarantine? For individuals who may not be able to see a professional bike fitter at the moment. Cheers!
Great Q, added to the list
Durianrider has his mtb cleats mid foot I see and I believe Adam.Hanson was almost mid sole. As kids or even riding mtb on a flat pedal we gravitate to the middle of the foot. It seems better for high cadence up.hills.
Cam bro...I just contacted your guy’s guy in Austria 🇦🇹 to see if this’ll work for my road pedals (Campangolo’s) and if so I’ll order them. Thanks for the solid info!!! You’re an EXCELLENT ambassador for the sport and keep encouraging KATE on the triathlons!!! That’s gr8!! 👌👍🇦🇺
Cheers Veritas, appreciate that and hope this work well for you.
@@CamNicholls on order as of last night, also ordered a Felt B2 frame to fit my Campangolo 11spd group-set/crank/ti-pedals, S-works aero fly v1 bars, Selle Italia SP-1 seat, and Fulcrum wrapped in GP5000s onto;-) There’s more exotic/lighter...but these components are well vetted and many forget the MOST IMPORTANT piece...your OVERALL FITNESS!-) (plus I live in Italy 🇮🇹 and wanted a ‘not so common 2 here’ frame set...
Love this!
Heard about the same "mid" cleat thing and drilling their shoes from Francis Cade as well. Sound crazy to me..
I place my cleat pretty far back I'd say, just experimenting with it for 20 mins or so
Found it's great for time trialling (hence why I chose the ISM saddle) and sprinting
I used to have massive issues running off the bike in races until I switched to speed play pedals and mounted my cleats much further back using the extension plates.
Interestingly, my FTP didn't suffer and my sprint wattage was only down a couple of percent. Even used the same cleat position on the track and again, made next to no difference with my jump or power, just meant my calves were no longer cooked after every session
I tried those exact SPD-SL adapters. They lasted 40 miles before the nuts that hold the cleat bolts in sheared off and dropped bolts on each shoe. So, I basically paid a dollar a mile for them before they broke... and I'm not Peter Sagan. I cruise at about 220 watts and that was too much for them. I REALLY wanted them to work-- they made a huge difference-- and Neill's assessment of how they impact power and feel are spot-on.
Back to the drawing board with no way to get my cleats behind the ball of my foot. Shape of my foot simply won't allow me to get a shoe that A) fits and B) doesn't force me to ride with the cleats way forward. It's like riding a bike while balanced on a tightrope. Haven't found a bike fitter yet who can get me stable in the seat. I'd go see Neill if I wasn't on the other side of the world. Sharp guy... and Cam you do a great job asking him the right questions.
I had exactly the same issue. I checked the bolts were fully engaged in the threads of the extender plate, also used a torque wrench to set the tension. The threads of the extender plates pulled on one bolt after maybe 150 miles. I replaced the plate and the same thing happened again. I didn’t bother to get in touch with Patrocleats as I felt they would blame my installation technique. I definitely fitted the extender plates correctly and with care. The problem with the product is that the threaded insert is made of much softer metal that the Shimano cleat bolt. Also the depth of the extender plate is insufficient and deliberately thin with the aim of reducing the increase in cleat stack. The product does not stand up to hard riding in my opinion. Absolute waste of money. Shame as the product is a great idea.
Love this guy and his comprehensive approach to bike fitting. Could you do a video explaining a general approach that we could all apply when dealing with leg length discrepancies? Once I find out how many mms of difference there is, is it just a matter of offsetting the discrepancy with shims or are there any other factors to consider?
Thank you so much for the quality content :)
Not that this applies to everyone but for those who may be watching this video to help them solve foot pain issues... Most people have the first joint of their little toe closer to the heal than the big toe, if you have a large difference in that distance and you move your cleat back more towards a mid-foot position, you may find that all of the pedal pressure gets put on the outside of the foot at the little toe joint. So you have to get the cleat center much more towards the mid foot/arch to get off this little toe joint or keep the cleat closer towards the first joint of the big toe. A couple months of really intense pain taught me that lesson and no amount of insole changes, metatarsal buttons, etc could eliminate it.
Very good explanation. Personally I have ridden more than a year now with te cleats almost fully back, both on road and mtb. As told in the video halfway it keeps feeling a bit weird in out of the saddle sprinting and pushing uphill as I do a lot with XC mountainbiking. Still haven't found the sweet spot I think, so next time I'm in Brisbane I know where to go.
Went all in on mod foot and bought semi-custom Bont Vaypors with a true mid-foot position. It’s a full 4 gms back from normal. I had to lower saddle 3 cm. It’s amazing for ultracycling. Highly recommend getting started with the Pateocleats. If you like it go all the way with semi- custom.
Swedish roadcyckling ex. National och ex. world champion Susanne Ljungskog used midfoot cleat mount already about 10 years ago.
I was getting knee pain after longer rides (100-150km+) and arrived at this solution on my own, having read around a bit. As I fatugued my heel was dropping, this caused over extension of the knee and weird non-specific aches lasting a week after a big ride. Dropped my saddle 10mm and moved my cleats nearly as far back as they will go (Shimano SPD-L) so not a true 'mid foot' position but much more rear biased. All knee twinges disappeared and I can do the distances without issue now!
I think it's wise not to recommend people new to toes clips to try and get the 'spindle under the ball of the foot' because this often leads to cleat position too far forwards for most riders.
Thanks for sharing on the thread
ha, I was not aware of most what Neil said but my cleats are fully back and what I can really confirm: my calves are almost not working while riding - I had serious calf injury in my left leg from running: I was not able even to walk for 1 month but I was still able to ride comfortable ;-)
Really interesting to hear that mate, never thought of it for people with calf complaints...thanks for sharing on the thread.
@@CamNicholls me neither until I experienced it. And today I understood why it happened - I have never set up cleats "because" of my calves - it was just my natural one based on how I feel on the bike. And now I got the point from your video ;-)
I bought patrocleats and put them way back...best thing ever. Size 47 shoes. Really feel more glute and ham work. Way less tension and cramping in my calves, hot spots in my toes are gone. Toe overlap is horrid, but once at speed its no issue. Also dropped the saddle and bar at least 2cm #AeroGains
Sprinting needs maybe 3 pedalstrokes to get going, but it doesnt seem to effect max speed. Climbing too feels 👌
But....YMMV
I ride my recumbent trike with SPD cleats mounted in the arch location of my sandals to stop my feet from going numb.
James Wilson of MTB strength training systems has been campaigning about midfoot position for years, talking about stability and hip recruitment amongst other things. Neil is the first person, other than James, to seem to be onto this. It seems the cycle industry truism of 'foot ball over axle' still holds sway, pity. All I know is, when I am doing flat out 20 km long hilly mtb trail loops, I am faster for longer midfoot on flat pedals than I am on spd's that set my foot ball over the pedal axle and I don't get knee pain either. Great vid, Neil and Cam!
Interesting to hear thanks for sharing George
I'm just here for those 5 glorious seconds of Caleb smashing 50kmh at the start of the vid
im 6.5 and 120kg i started with cleat right back mtb shoes but feet were to sore ,then i read if ur big like me try fully fwd, made all the difference no soreness any where
Can you give us a link to the Patrick adapter please and thanks for the great video please keep them coming!!!
I think this guy takes his craft very seriously, which is to be commended. Guys with passion for their craft are self-incentivized out of curiosity to learn and uncover the small important detail. It's only such people who truly become experts in their field.
I have another negative to add.
I have longer feet size 47 or 48 and i always felt like shoe manufacturers do a bad job of adjusting the cleat position for big shoes leaving the cleats to far forward. I have used in the past the speedplay adapter plate to put my foot as far back as possible. I really likeed it and raced with this as with my long feet in the normal position it feels unstable particularly if a stand up. Feet back position makes the feel much stronger.
However i cracked both sets of carbon sole shoes just behind where the cleat ended. I am fairly tall and raced between 85 and 90 kg at the time. I only like this setup now on nylon shoes. It felt to me that carbon soles are made to focused on weight loss with not enough strength behind the normal cleat position.
Frustrating mate, but thanks for sharing on the thread
There’s a company in the UK that has adapter plates to take your cleats to the mid arch position…including the 3 hole cleats
Question for Neil - I’ve recently been fitted for a pretty wide saddle (168mm) after a Retul sit bone test. Got me thinking that if I have wide sit bones, should I also consider increasing my stance on the bike? Great series by the way - keep ‘em coming! 👍
Well I have been riding with cleats in a really back position and I felt my quadriceps burning during my efforts and after my trainings. I changed the cleats to an upward position ( neutral now cause I had the cleats almost at the fully back position) and I feel now that calves are also involve in the pedal stroke... and I stopped experience this burning in the quadriceps.
Tried the Shimano road to mountain cleat adapters to save a ton of weight over heavy mtb shoes. With carbon road shoes I couldn't get the cleats back far enough to avoid ankle pain. Also riding fixed gear so mtb shoes have obvious advantages. No track stands for me though!
Thoroughly interesting, great to have someone who can articulate the biomechanical advantages and disadvantages of changing your setup. As a fellow physio and keen rider, is there any courses that you recommend?
Thank you, I think I'll try this as I was having lateral interior knee pain and nothing fixed it until I changed back to flat pedals. While on the bike trainer I noticed my feet placement and I was thinking maybe I could try again with the cleats farther back (I use mtb shoes/clips).
Keep us posted if this works for you!? Be interesting to hear
Interesting, coming from mtb I always had knee problems until I switched to shimano spd pedals, problems gone. I have my cleats a slightly bit farther back as usually recommended. I can only say invest hours to the cleat position, I probably changed it more than 50 times until it really felt natural.
Adam Hansen ex pro team cyclist discussed mid sole cleat position when he displayed a set of bike shoes he developed and manufactured.
Hi Cam, Neill is a legend. I have followed his recommendations around saddle height, fore and aft, reach, etc, and after two rides, I notice the difference (I know it is too soon). I had never recorded myself cycling, on the trainer, and it is very valuable what see you. Basically, I noticed I was a heavy heel dropper, reason why I moved backwards the cleats, using the PatroCleat extender. I was struggling with engaging my hamstrings and glutes after a very poorly done bike fitting using the Retul system. Because of my pedalling technic, I couldn’t follow the "regular" advises. My question to him would be: I have moved backwards the cleats by additional 10mm, intuitively, this would mean lowering the saddle, however, I am flat footed at the bottom of the stroke and because my hamstrings are working better, what should I do? also in regards to the saddle setback. My toe overlaps with front wheel since a while now, and havent had any issue; the angle of the curve has to be significant to hit the wheel. This would be more of an issue for MTB bikers. Cheers and keep it up with the content, you have changed my cycling experience.
I would like to hear Niel's opinion to the hoods tilted inward like Remco Evenepoel
The science of cleat wedges would be interesting.
This would had saved me quite a bit of money... i've had custom tri-shoe made just so i can have my cleats 17mm back. I do long distance triathlon... it made a big difference for me.. my legs were much fresher for my run that here was almost a 10min gain in my last 42km leg. All triathletes shd at least give this a try..😊
Interesting to hear mate, thanks for sharing on the thread 👍
I own both the white bontrager xxx carbon shoes and the Chapter 2 Rere in the back, but mine is white:)
A vid on Handlebar position please
Hi Cam could you ask Neil to go over hamstring tendon aggravation on the glute side and how it applies to position on a bike /saddle
Great video! But I missed the natural solution to midsole foot position - platform pedals.
Exactly, before you start drilling holes get some platform pedals
Apart from old mate Harley, I'd not heard of anyone doing it before this month.
Cam,
Regarding your request for future video topics: Bike sizing, and whether we can "trust" manufacturers' recommended sizing charts? I've run across some other videos/topics lately that seem to suggest most manufacturers' recommendations skew too large/long. I would be curious to get Neill's thoughts on this topic, along with some general recommendations on what a rider can look for in the geometry charts for their given height/size, versus simply following the "you're 5'10", so you ride a 56" canned advice. As a corollary, when a rider is appropriately sized, versus sized too large, can a rider typically tolerate more drop or a more "aggressive" handlebar height due to appropriate reach? I recall somewhere in your videos that you mentioned that you ride a size 54, but that you "could ride" a 56. Have you and Neill discussed this aspect of fit and frame size choice, and why did you settle on the smaller frame size?
Thanks for sharing Finn.
My fitter drilled new holes to get my cleats further back. It does feel better though. Feels abit odd at 1st out of the saddle
Love all the information Neill gives! My question is am a heel dropper, very hamstring dominant, is this a bad thing? Do corrections need to be made. I have been paying attention to pro riders and I don't see anyone heel down.
Neil brings up some interesting points , but I think even he would say do what is the most natural , some people drop their heel more than others , if u ride a bigger gear than most people u will probably drop ur heel more , sometimes this isn't a biomechanical thing ,it's a physiology thing , doing calf raises and glute exercises to increase the stability of the pedal stroke is a good place to start first 🤘
Hey Cam. How about a vid on saddle for and aft and stem length.
Gday Cam, Neill’s fitting techniques remind me of Steve Hogg’s approach. Has he done any work with Steve ? Motion capture and the Retul approach seem very generic to me and nothing beats experience and a keen eye. If your going to spend on a bike fit don’t waste your money, seek a top level fitter or just do it yourself. I’d love to get a bike fit off Neill, maybe on my next bike. it’s great that he is nearby, I’m On the Fraser Coast.
Edit: I just checked Neill’s website, yeah Steve Hogg approved. 👍
Even 3mm forward makes a huge difference with my knees and I start to get pain. Cleats fully back feels best for me
Hi Cam, great vid as per usual ☺
Question for Neil - What advice would he give for riders with severe "toe out" (say 15-20 degrees)?
I've been using 20mm kneesavers (pedal extenders) with modified speedplay frogs (had to remove the stops). Unfortunately, it looks like the frogs are being phased out. In addition, the kneesavers a bit too long (Q width), but I can't get anything shorter.😭
For a bike fitter, I'm surprised no mention of needing to look at the fore/aft (saddle setback) after doing this. It can be a problem moving the foot forward by a significant amount without also moving the saddle forward the same amount, otherwise the fit could be thrown off and knee problems can occur. Don't ask me how I know.
Lowering saddle height also brings saddle forward as it is angled.
I can't tell you how much I respect and appreciate these bike fitting videos. Killer!!!! Thanks. Recently I have begun riding mountain bike and now going back to my road bike feels really narrow both for my hands and feet. I was wondering if you guys had any tips for optimizing both foot and handlebar width? Were is the balance between improvements in torque with a wider fit vs aero gains of a thinner set up?
Thanks!!!!
Q for Neill, I'll put it on the list Andrew. Thanks for the comment.
@@CamNicholls Thanks so exciting! I guess since you will ask him. I'll provide more info. I've rode only road bike for over 10 years with 400mm handlebars and no spacers on my Shimano 105 cranks. I just bought a fat bike so both my arms and legs are WAY wider on it. Now when I go back to ride my road bike I feel awkward for about 10miles before I settle in and out of the saddle efforts are noticeably weaker. So I have begun to question myself. Have I been riding on too thin a set up for years? However, maybe it is not a bad thing for aero gains? I have had no injuries at all from my road bike set up, so it is just a question about optimization. Feel free to condense this question when you ask Neil. Thanks so much for the videos! Already helped me and I always look forward to them!
I probably have like 3mm to push my cleats backwards. Does it mean if I push it backwards, I can lower my saddle height? When I move the cleats backwards, wouldn't I naturally seat slight forward?
I brought my 1st set of shoes and clipless pedals last week and am getting pain on the outside of my right foot close to the spindle any tips?
Cam, can’t thank you enough for these bike fit videos! Simply brilliant content. Like a few others, I’m an SPD cleat fan for road bike. Makes walking around so much easier and I don’t destroy the cleats. 😄 Plus, the new gravel shoes have expanded the selection. I moved the cleats as far back as they would go this season and love the feel. After watching, I’m tempted to get the drill out. I’ve got a few CMs to midfoot. In addition to comfort, I noticed it makes clipping in and out much smoother, after you adjust to where the cleat actually is.
some top Ironman Triathletes use midfoot cleats quietly for a while now so its benefits have backing