I bought a used GL800 with 24k miles. It would not track down the road like my other GL1800s did and at high speed I could feel a wobble from the rear of the bike. I found out a shop had installed AllBalls bearings so I dismantled the bike and re-torqued and now the bike is back to the way it should be.
Thank you for the explanation and clarification. I am from Saudi Arabia, and I assure you that I have greatly benefited from your distinguished videos. I work your way
First rate, at last clear and understandable information , I have a 97 valkyire and I thought I new what I was doing steering seams a bit light I'll tighten it up a bit she handed like a pig!! I new why readjusted head bearings all ok now ,you never stop learning, ps and i've been working on my own bikes for 46 years just goes to show
Many thanks since I have seen this video I have made dozens of goldwing steering and yes 21 lbs vs 28 written in the all ball Box Is heaven customer all say it’s just like an other bike ,,, a new bike . I love m’y job . thanks Max .
Tightening the head brgs. to the point of eliminating head shake is only masking the shake problem, motorcycles are very sensitive to head bearings being over tightened. It's not just hunting down the road that is a problem it will also make the bike hard to control at very low speeds, as when coming to a stop. If you find yourself rushing to get your feet down to catch the bike when coming to a stop, make sure your head brgs. are not too tight or damaged. If you raise the front of your bike up to get the wheel off the ground the front fork should fall to the stop, it very hard to find a perfect center where the fork won't fall to one side or the other. (provided you don't have anything binding like a cable or wire harness) It seems as though people are rushing to install "Timken type" roller bearings but has anyone wondered why Honda has chosen ball bearings for this application for decades? Spoiler: it ain't to save money!
I had never noticed the tab washer was actually a spring washer. Glad I used a new one the last time. I know the mistake you describe is made often. I turn the second nut down to make just firm contact. If, by chance, the tab washer aligns at that point or is very close to aligning; I DO NOT set the tabs, I back it off to the next tab. The gap does not really matter so long as top bridge nut does not crush the gap closed and the tabs lock securely.
Great video.one thing you didn't mention is on cone bearings it's so much better if you work the bearing back and forth then take what the bearings give until there seated then set the final torque setting.
I had a guy wanting me to change his bearings. After watching this I think I will pass. I would feel comfortable changing the ones on my own bike, but I don't want to be responsible for someone else's bike.
Welcome. I have a question. I have a Honda Gold Wing 2015, and I suffer from vibration in the steering wheel at low speeds, and after 80 km, the vibration disappears, and the bike runs in a straight line and has tendencies to the right side. For your information, a new frame from Bridgestone, and the bike frame is also new
This is a very famous problem. 50% of 2001-17 Goldwings have this problem. It can sometimes be fixed with new steering bearings, but a full Traxxion Suspension kit fixes it about 99% of the time. Of course, you can just keep your hands on the bars for "FREE"... hahaha!!!
Hi Max I am a little shop who spécialise in Goldwing and loved your video specialy this one who helped me do an even better job I wonder why the packing of the allballs bearing calls for 28-30 ft lbs wow the max I tried was 23 for a firm steering can’t imagine 28-30.
@@Traxxion ha ha ha I know. Just having a little fun. I love my old "big girl" as my wife calls her. She's black and beautiful and still hauls it like she was stolen! Thanks for the fast response. I enjoy your videos!
Max, I defer to your expertise however I am reading more GL1800 owners who have subsequently removed their All Balls tapered bearings and put back in OEM ball bearing kits. As I have a clunk sound, no wobbles, I suspect a looseness in my steering head washers/bolt just as you have described. I think I will have my Honda shop do this work as I don't have a digital torque wrench or the special socket. Are you hearing of more owners going back to OEM ball bearings in the steering head?
Nobody I have ever heard of removes All Balls bearings from their Goldwing and puts stock bearings back into it. That would just be plain stupid. I am sure what you have found is some "engineer" who did this, and has now dedicated himself to convincing people on forums how smart he is, and why everyone should follow his genius. He has probably collected 2 or 3 disciples who help spread his silly message. There is probably hundreds of thousands of 01-17 Wings with tapered bearings in the steering head. 99% of those people will tell you it was an impressive and worthwhile upgrade. So what you are dealing with is an infinitesimally insignificant handful of people telling you that tens and hundreds of thousands of people are wrong. As I said, it's jus plain stupid.
Im happy I'm watching this. My xl1000 Varadero need a slight adjustnas its been a while and i just need to take the top part of and just tighten the lowest nut a slight and then feel for any play or loose or hard feeling and then back together? I mean if this is the first easiest fix i can do without removing the wheel and damoers and all that? I just noticed a slight wobble and put it on midle stand and checked for any play there was none, but the steering itself was way to easy to move to each side almost as it just went one way and knocked the ends and bumbed back. You understand? I hope. Please i appreciate an answer. Thank you
It can be done without removing the forks, but it is much harder. Also you need a torque wrench and special socket to make the adjustment. I do not know the torque for your bike, you'll have to research that.
Putting the top clamp onto forks and wheel they don't typically line up well due to flex in the lower clamp. I would at least take the front wheel off to remove the weight.@@RIMHQ-YT
Im chasing a wobble on my 2000 valkyrie has 13,000 miles. Hands off the bars and hit little bumps it will start to wobble a little. Unnerving cause i like to ride one handed sometimes but wont now. I thought my 10inch rise mini ape handlebars had something to do with it. I'll be carefully checking things over and take your technical advice
Many times it's just a defective tire.... defective when new. A less likely thing to check is wheel bearings. But a complete bike check is required. Many "front" wobbles start from a mechanical problem in the rear, like loose swingarm, wheel bearings, bad rear tire, etc.
@@Traxxion Yeah when I put on the tires myself I felt and spun the wheel bearings by hand and they felt smooth with no play. I never balanced the tires thou. The handle bar wobble can be bad over small bumps at low speeds. but i did replace the front forks with progressive springs new bushings, seals 15w fluid. It seems like theres flex looking down the forks sitting on the bike and tapping the front break as you rock it forward. With the bike up in the air the steering head is smooth lock to lock and dosent seem to have play. Maybe the tork isn't right on the head anymore. I know I ride this thing 10 times harder than the previous owner and maybe its lessened up a little. Maybe this isnt the bike for me seeing how a ride to aggressive haha. I dont have the special steering head socket so I doubt im gonna mess with the torc untill i have that
The reason is that tapered roller bearings are extremely sensitive to torque, while ball bearings are not. It is much harder for Honda, owners and bike shop mechanics to screw up torquing ball bearings, so they are the best option to avoid warranty problems at the dealer level. And if you think Honda doesn't cut corners for cost you'd have to be kidding yourself.
Hi Max. As you know my Traxxion triple clamp is on it's to the UK for me. Thanks to Dan, yourself and all at Traxxion. The Honda manual says to finger tighten the stem locknut then tighten further within 90 degrees until the washer tabs line up. You recommend the opposite and to back the locknut off until the washer tabs align. Is this because of taper rollers being more susceptible to over torquing than the OEM ball bearings? Thanks
There is no preload adjustment on the front shock of any 2018+ model. The rear is controlled at the dash for Tour models, and by a manual knob under the right side cover on Standard models.
@@Traxxion Well, it appears to be a royal PIA. Another special tool to fit a different, bunt cake shaped, tensioning nut. Maybe another one of those things best left to you pros or advanced DIYs. The one at the handlebars seems to be a piece of cake, typical type.
Just received my steering stem bearings from All Balls for my 2012 GL1800, and a notice inside the package of the recommended torque setting as 28-30 ft lbs. Your recommendation of 21 ft lbs is quite a difference. Please advise.
I did this procedure to about 30 then loose repeat and then 21 rotate the bars several times and 21 again. My bike hunts and it drives me nuts. Will it break-in over time or should I loosen the nut 1/8 turn and try again? I put it on the center stand, raised the front off the ground and the steering is smooth but doesn’t fall to either side like all my other bikes do. It was a PITA and I’m not looking forward to tearing the bike apart again.
If your bike hunts, there's only 2 possibilities: 1. The races aren't properly installed. 2. The bearings are overtorqued. Cocked races can cause the steering to function poorly. As far as torque goes, borrow another torque wrench, it's possible yours is just bad or poorly calibrated. That's the most common reason for a bike that hunts. Just loosen them until it doesn't hunt.
Great video as usual Max! I have a 2008 GW that's wobble between 40-50 mph above our below that speed it's ok. My bike has 45k miles and it's completely stock. I'm thinking that one possibility it's the tyre which is a little scalped and it's a diagonal construction not radial. I'm thinking to start changing the tyre and see if improves. If not the next step could be check the bearings.
@@Traxxion Thank you for your response. I've tried to say "cupped", thank you for the correction. Do you think that using a bias ply tire instead of a radial tire could be part of the symptom ?
@@Francis0275 No. I don't know anyone anywhere who would put a bias ply tire on a Goldwing. I don't even know if anyone makes one... it has to be rated for the Goldwing's weight. The stock forks cause the tire cupping. They do not have enough damping to control the wheel movement.
Hi max this is a great vidéo with super info. The book calls for OME bearing specs and he pacage has a paper saying 28-30 lbs Wow way to mutch. Do you have any tips or spec dunn by experience with Gl1500 steering torq? Many thanks Norm.
@@Traxxion I just would like to know... Talking about Honda... It is possible to use ntn or nachi tappered bearing. They are made in Japan. The quality is nice... why don't you use them instead of all balls?
@@ipostuplenie any tapered bearing is already overkill for a steering head application. It will never fail if installed properly. So extreme quality isn't important. All Balls are probably in a million Wings. If they weren't good enough, we'd know by now!
Hi Max, thank you for all the great info and videos. I have a question. Your 21 ft lbs is much less than the all ball’s recommended 28 ft lbs., I trust you and I will set mine to 21, but why do think their setting is so much higher? Seems like 28 would make the bike hunt and not track straight. Also do you recommend lithium grease for Molly Grace for these bearings? Thank you
Basically any waterproof grease will do since these bearing barely move at all, and never spin. I can't say why they have that recommendation so high, but it would make the bike terrible. We used 23 for many years, but just found that 21 was the most free setting without any wobble or slack problems. That is measured with a digital torque wrench though... not your grampa's needle-stick wrench!
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
That is the best explanation on steering stem that I've ever seen.
It is Suuuuper helpful, especially on the second nut!
Glad it helped!
I bought a used GL800 with 24k miles. It would not track down the road like my other GL1800s did and at high speed I could feel a wobble from the rear of the bike. I found out a shop had installed AllBalls bearings so I dismantled the bike and re-torqued and now the bike is back to the way it should be.
Improper torque will just ruin a motorcycle's handling characteristics.
@@Traxxion Man you're not kidding, it's a night and day difference for me. Thanks so much for the video you posted.
IT S AN EXCELLENT AND PROFESSIONAL EXPLENATION ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE SECOND NUT ON RIGHT TORQUENING THE STEERING STEM .THANK YOU VERY MUCH
Glad you liked it!
I have an 05 with 16k. I wish it was financially prudent to full Monty it. There's a lot to it. Excellent points.
Thank you for the explanation and clarification. I am from Saudi Arabia, and I assure you that I have greatly benefited from your distinguished videos. I work your way
I am glad they help you!
First rate, at last clear and understandable information , I have a 97 valkyire and I thought I new what I was doing steering seams a bit light I'll tighten it up a bit she handed like a pig!! I new why readjusted head bearings all ok now ,you never stop learning, ps and i've been working on my own bikes for 46 years just goes to show
Gonna be using this for reference, thank you for posting. Just today purchased your triple tree and fork spring kit.
Glad it helped!
Many thanks since I have seen this video I have made dozens of goldwing steering and yes 21 lbs vs 28 written in the all ball Box Is heaven customer all say it’s just like an other bike ,,, a new bike . I love m’y job . thanks Max .
Nice work!
Tightening the head brgs. to the point of eliminating head shake is only masking the shake problem, motorcycles are very sensitive to head bearings being over tightened. It's not just hunting down the road that is a problem it will also make the bike hard to control at very low speeds, as when coming to a stop.
If you find yourself rushing to get your feet down to catch the bike when coming to a stop, make sure your head brgs. are not too tight or damaged.
If you raise the front of your bike up to get the wheel off the ground the front fork should fall to the stop, it very hard to find a perfect center where the fork won't fall to one side or the other. (provided you don't have anything binding like a cable or wire harness)
It seems as though people are rushing to install "Timken type" roller bearings but has anyone wondered why Honda has chosen ball bearings for this application for decades? Spoiler: it ain't to save money!
Thank you very much for all your sound advice on motorcycle topics.
Kind regards Zoran
My pleasure!
Great explanation and professionalism,
Where are you located if I ever need mine done?
www.traxxion.com
I had never noticed the tab washer was actually a spring washer. Glad I used a new one the last time. I know the mistake you describe is made often. I turn the second nut down to make just firm contact. If, by chance, the tab washer aligns at that point or is very close to aligning; I DO NOT set the tabs, I back it off to the next tab. The gap does not really matter so long as top bridge nut does not crush the gap closed and the tabs lock securely.
Great video.one thing you didn't mention is on cone bearings it's so much better if you work the bearing back and forth then take what the bearings give until there seated then set the final torque setting.
I had a guy wanting me to change his bearings. After watching this I think I will pass. I would feel comfortable changing the ones on my own bike, but I don't want to be responsible for someone else's bike.
Good idea.
Welcome. I have a question. I have a Honda Gold Wing 2015, and I suffer from vibration in the steering wheel at low speeds, and after 80 km, the vibration disappears, and the bike runs in a straight line and has tendencies to the right side. For your information, a new frame from Bridgestone, and the bike frame is also new
Do you have your hands on the handlebars when you feel the vibration?
@@Traxxion no. When I put my hand on the handle bar, the vibration disappears
This is a very famous problem. 50% of 2001-17 Goldwings have this problem. It can sometimes be fixed with new steering bearings, but a full Traxxion Suspension kit fixes it about 99% of the time. Of course, you can just keep your hands on the bars for "FREE"... hahaha!!!
Hi Max I am a little shop who spécialise in Goldwing and loved your video specialy this one who helped me do an even better job I wonder why the packing of the allballs bearing calls for 28-30 ft lbs wow the max I tried was 23 for a firm steering can’t imagine 28-30.
We used to use 23 for several years, but now we use 21. We have found that to be perfect.
Excellent video with great information. Now, what about my 94 Interstate?
That was before RUclips, so there won't be any videos about that bike... :)!!!
@@Traxxion ha ha ha I know. Just having a little fun. I love my old "big girl" as my wife calls her. She's black and beautiful and still hauls it like she was stolen! Thanks for the fast response. I enjoy your videos!
Thanks Max. I did exactly what you said to do and it's perfect
:)
Max, I defer to your expertise however I am reading more GL1800 owners who have subsequently removed their All Balls tapered bearings and put back in OEM ball bearing kits. As I have a clunk sound, no wobbles, I suspect a looseness in my steering head washers/bolt just as you have described. I think I will have my Honda shop do this work as I don't have a digital torque wrench or the special socket.
Are you hearing of more owners going back to OEM ball bearings in the steering head?
Nobody I have ever heard of removes All Balls bearings from their Goldwing and puts stock bearings back into it. That would just be plain stupid. I am sure what you have found is some "engineer" who did this, and has now dedicated himself to convincing people on forums how smart he is, and why everyone should follow his genius. He has probably collected 2 or 3 disciples who help spread his silly message.
There is probably hundreds of thousands of 01-17 Wings with tapered bearings in the steering head. 99% of those people will tell you it was an impressive and worthwhile upgrade.
So what you are dealing with is an infinitesimally insignificant handful of people telling you that tens and hundreds of thousands of people are wrong. As I said, it's jus plain stupid.
@@Traxxion Sounds like a conspiracy theory engineer.
Im happy I'm watching this. My xl1000 Varadero need a slight adjustnas its been a while and i just need to take the top part of and just tighten the lowest nut a slight and then feel for any play or loose or hard feeling and then back together? I mean if this is the first easiest fix i can do without removing the wheel and damoers and all that? I just noticed a slight wobble and put it on midle stand and checked for any play there was none, but the steering itself was way to easy to move to each side almost as it just went one way and knocked the ends and bumbed back. You understand? I hope. Please i appreciate an answer. Thank you
It can be done without removing the forks, but it is much harder. Also you need a torque wrench and special socket to make the adjustment. I do not know the torque for your bike, you'll have to research that.
@@Traxxion why is it harder? Removing less stuff is easy? Do I need to take off the top triple clamp??
Putting the top clamp onto forks and wheel they don't typically line up well due to flex in the lower clamp. I would at least take the front wheel off to remove the weight.@@RIMHQ-YT
Im chasing a wobble on my 2000 valkyrie has 13,000 miles. Hands off the bars and hit little bumps it will start to wobble a little. Unnerving cause i like to ride one handed sometimes but wont now. I thought my 10inch rise mini ape handlebars had something to do with it. I'll be carefully checking things over and take your technical advice
Many times it's just a defective tire.... defective when new. A less likely thing to check is wheel bearings.
But a complete bike check is required. Many "front" wobbles start from a mechanical problem in the rear, like loose swingarm, wheel bearings, bad rear tire, etc.
@@Traxxion Yeah when I put on the tires myself I felt and spun the wheel bearings by hand and they felt smooth with no play. I never balanced the tires thou. The handle bar wobble can be bad over small bumps at low speeds. but i did replace the front forks with progressive springs new bushings, seals 15w fluid. It seems like theres flex looking down the forks sitting on the bike and tapping the front break as you rock it forward.
With the bike up in the air the steering head is smooth lock to lock and dosent seem to have play. Maybe the tork isn't right on the head anymore. I know I ride this thing 10 times harder than the previous owner and maybe its lessened up a little. Maybe this isnt the bike for me seeing how a ride to aggressive haha.
I dont have the special steering head socket so I doubt im gonna mess with the torc untill i have that
@@BikerBenny I would go straight for the head bearing torque.
@@Traxxion thank you for the responses friend
@@BikerBenny you got it!
I also wonder why Honda uses the bearing they use? Many will say cost. I don't but that. There is a reason. And we may never know.
Great video.
The reason is that tapered roller bearings are extremely sensitive to torque, while ball bearings are not. It is much harder for Honda, owners and bike shop mechanics to screw up torquing ball bearings, so they are the best option to avoid warranty problems at the dealer level. And if you think Honda doesn't cut corners for cost you'd have to be kidding yourself.
Very good explanation. Thank you sir
Hi Max. As you know my Traxxion triple clamp is on it's to the UK for me. Thanks to Dan, yourself and all at Traxxion. The Honda manual says to finger tighten the stem locknut then tighten further within 90 degrees until the washer tabs line up. You recommend the opposite and to back the locknut off until the washer tabs align. Is this because of taper rollers being more susceptible to over torquing than the OEM ball bearings? Thanks
The net result is the same whichever way you do it. What's important is that there is a gap between the tow castle nuts, that's all.
How to do steering head bearing at a shop on a Goldwing?
Use Honda Service Manual and special tools.
Hey Max, show us how to get access to and adjust the pre-load on 2018 and up models.
There is no preload adjustment on the front shock of any 2018+ model. The rear is controlled at the dash for Tour models, and by a manual knob under the right side cover on Standard models.
@@Traxxion I mislead you; not the shock pre-load; but the steering bearing pre-load. Sorry about that.
@@rooster3019 I see. Someday I'll make a video about that.
@@Traxxion Well, it appears to be a royal PIA. Another special tool to fit a different, bunt cake shaped, tensioning nut. Maybe another one of those things best left to you pros or advanced DIYs. The one at the handlebars seems to be a piece of cake, typical type.
Great job. Very good info. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Just received my steering stem bearings from All Balls for my 2012 GL1800, and a notice inside the package of the recommended torque setting as 28-30 ft lbs. Your recommendation of 21 ft lbs is quite a difference. Please advise.
If you set the bearings that way, your bike will not go straight. Users need to be advising them that this torque is unacceptable.
I did this procedure to about 30 then loose repeat and then 21 rotate the bars several times and 21 again. My bike hunts and it drives me nuts. Will it break-in over time or should I loosen the nut 1/8 turn and try again? I put it on the center stand, raised the front off the ground and the steering is smooth but doesn’t fall to either side like all my other bikes do. It was a PITA and I’m not looking forward to tearing the bike apart again.
If your bike hunts, there's only 2 possibilities: 1. The races aren't properly installed. 2. The bearings are overtorqued.
Cocked races can cause the steering to function poorly. As far as torque goes, borrow another torque wrench, it's possible yours is just bad or poorly calibrated. That's the most common reason for a bike that hunts. Just loosen them until it doesn't hunt.
Great video as usual Max! I have a 2008 GW that's wobble between 40-50 mph above our below that speed it's ok.
My bike has 45k miles and it's completely stock. I'm thinking that one possibility it's the tyre which is a little scalped and it's a diagonal construction not radial. I'm thinking to start changing the tyre and see if improves. If not the next step could be check the bearings.
The tire is always the best place to start. For the record, the term for the tire is "scalloped". Like the sea creature!
@@Traxxion Thank you for your response. I've tried to say "cupped", thank you for the correction. Do you think that using a bias ply tire instead of a radial tire could be part of the symptom ?
@@Francis0275 No. I don't know anyone anywhere who would put a bias ply tire on a Goldwing. I don't even know if anyone makes one... it has to be rated for the Goldwing's weight. The stock forks cause the tire cupping. They do not have enough damping to control the wheel movement.
Excellent Video!
Thank you very much!
Max you say it should cost about 200$ to have the bearings changed? I have a ST1300. What city are you in?
Woodstock, GA
Nice mate, thanks
No problem 👍
Hey Max! Great video 👌 I was wondering what name of that bearing press you own. If like to buy one. Thank!
It's made by the Park Tool Company. If you can't find it readily, contact Mark, the customer service manager, and he knows what to set you up with.
Hi max this is a great vidéo with super info. The book calls for OME bearing specs and he pacage has a paper saying 28-30 lbs Wow way to mutch.
Do you have any tips or spec dunn by experience with Gl1500 steering torq?
Many thanks Norm.
We use 21 ft/lbs on All Balls tapered roller bearings. We don't use OEM bearings on any Goldwing.
@@Traxxion I just would like to know... Talking about Honda... It is possible to use ntn or nachi tappered bearing. They are made in Japan. The quality is nice... why don't you use them instead of all balls?
@@ipostuplenie any tapered bearing is already overkill for a steering head application. It will never fail if installed properly. So extreme quality isn't important.
All Balls are probably in a million Wings. If they weren't good enough, we'd know by now!
Qual óleo que pode ser usado
Para qual parte de motocicleta?
Para suspensão dianteiro da Honda Gold wing GL 1800
@@toninhoandrade5396 Honda says 10wt. We use 15 or 20wt for hot conditions.
Hi Max, thank you for all the great info and videos.
I have a question.
Your 21 ft lbs is much less than the all ball’s recommended 28 ft lbs., I trust you and I will set mine to 21, but why do think their setting is so much higher? Seems like 28 would make the bike hunt and not track straight.
Also do you recommend lithium grease for Molly Grace for these bearings?
Thank you
Basically any waterproof grease will do since these bearing barely move at all, and never spin.
I can't say why they have that recommendation so high, but it would make the bike terrible. We used 23 for many years, but just found that 21 was the most free setting without any wobble or slack problems.
That is measured with a digital torque wrench though... not your grampa's needle-stick wrench!
@
Got ya, thanks.