The Fall Of Malifaux.. another Cautionary Tale..
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- In this episode we discuss the rise and fall of Malifaux in Canada..
In Canada?
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![Malifaux Battle Report [Guild vs. Arcanists]](/img/1.gif)
as a person going to an 80 player event this weekend.... doesn't feel very dead
Blood bowl had 100 player events during the period where games workshop had the game retired (you couldn't buy anything).
The size of an event doesn't necessarily corelate with how much a game sells, which is what we are ultimately talking about as a retailer.
Glad you are having fun still playing it! Thanks for the comment.
My experience with Malifeaux is an endless cycle of "oh, that sounds cool. I'd like to check that out!" followed by no one having stock or selling it at all.
Malifaux isnt dead 😂. our uk community has about doubled in the last couple of years. It's growing strongly and has a super dedicated community. Sounds like alot of these issues are unique to Canada and from several years ago. Completely agree with some of the criticisms- it's a nightmare of a game for a shop to stock due to the sheer volume of skus and the fact there is no clear on-boarding process or first purchase for a new player. Also the launch and then subsequent abandonment of the other side wasn't great. Personally, I love the game- and its become my main hobby. I have a close-knit community of people around the country who I see regularly at game night and at tournaments and a wider global community who I engage with daily on discord and play with online. For me its a fantastic game for tournaments as the rule set is well balanced for a miniatures game (and wyrd have made a real effort in recent years to listen to the community concerns around balance and act accordingly). Have turned my back on GW for good having discovered Malifaux and realising that i dont have to cycle my army every few months to play competitively. Your perspective was interesting but definitely think that malifaux is here to stay 😊
Despite our clickbait title, we didn't say it was actually dead, just much reduced from what it once was.
Glad you are enjoying it, it's a great product.
Can't get a game of it anywhere near me in the UK and we have 6 or 7 different venues to play at. Game dropped off years ago unfortunately
@@UndeadKing_5150where do you live?
I can only mimic James’s comments. Plenty of people in my area are playing it and really good providers of people around the country. There is also a thriving tournament scene.
@UndeadKing_5150 looks like my previous comment was deleted for some reason, but if you were keen to play im sure it'd be easy to hook you up- I guess you've not looked into it in a while but we have a thriving scene in the UK, plenty of sold out tournaments almost every weekend which BTW, wyrd support with prizes at no cost.
GUYS WE'VE MADE IT! Malifaux is popular enough to farm Ragebait from.
Yep all 17 malifaux fans have been stirring up some trouble here.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Aww honey, I know you gotta keep stoking the fire, but we can see the view count. Pretty high for a video on a 'dead' game.
@@dbroman99 Never played Malifaux, no interest in it, but i am always curious to hear what mistakes game x or y has made
Malifaux community near me has been consistently growing, and it's the best game I play. If that's what you call dead, then I'll take it
Despite the clickbait title, we never said it's actually dead. Just much smaller than it once was, and probably never climbing out of that in our opinion.
Glad you found a community you enjoy - that is the whole point of course!
We are currently running an 80 player team event in Poland with people from 14 countries participating ^^
That's awesome man!
1ed Malifaux was the first game that seriously made me turn my back on everything GW, having been a fanboy of everything they did for decades. The card and soulstone mechanic blew my mind (I lived a sheltered life), the models were awesome, character cards in the model pack, fantastic. 2ed and the change in proportions of the plastics kits killed it for me. Benchmark game for me though - happy memories.
Yeah I was close to getting in late in first, but then 2nd was already anounced. Didn't fancy the change in style...
Funny thing is I saw a Malifaux ad at the start of this video
Lmao
The only real Pillars in the hobby gaming industry are Dungeons and Dragons, Magic the gathering and Warhammer. Board games as a category are a pillar too. Nothing else is as widely known or has fewer barriers to entry. Malifaux has its own issues for gaining new players, the card mechanic being the main one. The chunky rules being the other.
Uh, Malifaux is a great game. We just ran a new-player-friendly event and had like half our field be new players. There are tournaments at most major cons and even an international IRL scene, plus plenty of groups that run events on vassal across player groups and metas. It's also by far the best set of mechanics for translating player agency into game effects, and the Fate deck's two core mechanics are an amazing engagement with RNG. The game isn't "dead" or "fallen" at all -- it's got plenty of enthusiasts and new people jumping in.
Malifaux is a phenomenal game. In theory.
The setting is incredible, the mechanics are off the charts unique.
The problem is reality.
The game design has lost the forest for the trees. Sure its great-in theory- that 80 masters play 80 different ways, and now titles even change those 80 masters 80 additional ways.
Sounds great, but time and reality are real things. Tournament games are lucky to hit turn 3 (of 5 turns) with 2 and a half hour rounds. The game size is too high, the game length is too long, the game rules are too deep. Its just too much game, unless you want to treat it more like a 3-4 hour RPG type game.
Great points. I think people really do like the idea of malifaux more than they like the real thing. At the end of the day if your minis game takes the same time as 18 holes of golf to play, it's probably a bit too heavy.
Yes. It's my main problem in the game, and why it's sooo difficult to grow a community. Hope they'll fix that with the next edition, with a "tournament format" or something. It might be a real problem in the long term.
@@Nate-tq8wu the community at large has been implementing clocks for tournament play and with great success! The community created the rules and it seems to be a tournament standard
@@codybennett8516 True. That's one direction I really like actually ! Wasn't a huge fan at first but now I like it.
@@Nate-tq8wu at first I didn’t like it either but it’s nice to be able to get a game in at your LGS and still have to spend with your family and/or friend when you get home.
Our community only has around 20 people. But honestly for casual play you dont need many people, there is always someone to play with if you want
That's awesome!
I quit Malifaux when they killed my main Nicodem and pulled my best friend's main, Ramos, after we built our collections around them. Pulling characters based on polls is awful.
Yea that never feels good. I understand why companies do it...but it never ends well
This is exactly what happened to my group: I mained Lilith, and my friends mained Nicodem and Ramos. It basically spiked the game for us.
I love Malifaux and Winnipeg has a great scene here. I wish more folks could try the game as it’s great.
Say what you want about GW, but part of their business model is to make store owner's life easier. I worked in a store and also as part of the Latin American distribution later. They got us a Mexican girl to speak Spanish with closer to our time zone (even if I loved the Spanish guy when I was working in a store that called us with a 'I just went to the warehouse and snatched one of those big army boxes with a ltd edition metal battle standard or something, you want it?' that we never got regularly because of the 'priority' system they had at the time).
They also covered shipping. Being 2010, that meant that GW was cheaper than any other miniature product we could carry. Covering shipping was a better discount than any other discount others could give us... and also paperwork... You called them with a hey I need a certificate that says where are you manufacturing your paints and that if some idiot decides to drink it won't die and the next day you got your certificate so you could process your order through customs...
Chris and I mention this a lot in our videos and I always get a laugh when a random customer who is usually in the full on anti-gw throws a comment like 'bet you hate dealing with those guys'..
no.. its great dealing with them 99% of the time.. its even.. excellent lol
Gw is the most pain in the ass company I deal with as a retailer 🤷
Weirdly enough, I wanted to get into Malifaux but never had a local community near me at the time. This helps to understand why. I still have a number of models, because I use them in the RPG! LOL Thanks for the video, gents. Great discussion as always.
Fascinating to hear the retailer side of this story.
It sounds like you've got your own distribution issues in Canada, but recently Wyrd have been making new releases available from local retailers about a month or so before they are available directly from Wyrd. I also think that the move from 2nd to 3rd edition definitely improved the flow and readability of the game, along with it having one of the best companion apps out there available for free.
While Malifaux is probably my current favourite game, I'm definitely concerned about the growing SKU bloat. Wyrd want to keep adding stuff to the game so it feels alive and healthy, but I'm starting to feel like it's got too much and that in turn is causing some power-creep and devaluing older pieces.
Malifaux 1 was the only good one tbh. Metal models were better and suited the style more. The game was also less ability focused.
Also like other people are saying I think there's a lot to be said about what games even benefit from growing through the LGS models, at what scale, and to what end.
The main issue for companies wanting to compete with Warhammer 40k is their game needs to be as accessible and interesting to explore as 40k is. Most games do not have all the parts that 40k does. Then when COVID hit, people had free time and were stuck at home and all those parts in place for 40k made it grow, which lead to youtubers doing more and then the hobby grows more and those things feed in to each other. Malifaux has never tapped into that.
Guys ... come on. Your channel is great and we really enjoy it, but this one is a miss ... Wyrd has grown this game massively in the last 2-3 years and it's been such a hit for them that they've used the profits to help them expand into board game publishing. The game isn't dead at all ...
I will second that statement from Dangerplanet.
I will say there are areas where it is not common it certainly isn’t dead by any stretch of the imagination. It’s a very thriving community with some wonderful content creators trying to boost its popularity.
I know the game isn’t for everyone and that is fine. In fact that is why there are so many different miniature games out there.
Also, the title of this video is very misleading because just as Dangerplanet said the game isn’t dead or dying.
Agreed. It's only grown in recent years in my area. And no signs of stopping
Love your channel Danger!
Outside the US it's barely surviving. It's all well and good of you're US based but it's non existent elsewhere
@@UndeadKing_5150 u have no idea what ur talking about
If there are at least TWO blokes who have the rules and pieces to any game system, and the willingness to play it, then THAT GAME IS NOT DEAD.There are STILL 8th Edition Warhammer Tournaments organized and well attended by fan boys. People play CHESS even though Privateer Press or GW doesn't produce CHESS at the moment. Just PLAY Malifux, Mordheim, etc. Just PLAY any game, and any game will LIVE. Rock on!
It's crazy, a lot of your "industry don'ts" seems to be Knight Models' standard operating procedure... That (and the horrendous quality control) can't possibly be why their stuff always seems to be DOA...
Well get into the story that is KM soon...
Malifaux is just now picking back up where I'm at.
It was a bit of a 1, 2, 3 punch out here. First there was the killing off 3 of the most popular masters, the shifting of boxes with the edition change, and then covid.
People were shocked when we started at our local LGS, as there was still a bunch of fans, but the community had died out.
I still think it is hands down the best game on the market, but they really need to do something about the SKU bloat.
Just got to the spot when you said they didn't retire anything -they retired Nicodemus right after I painted him, and he was the first malifaux model I painted.
That’s a long video that mostly comes down to “the major distributors don’t work for small games anymore”.
I get it, but it was our full experience we didn't want to leave anything out.
Thanks!
I've just begin Malifaux this week ordering second hand and the lore and the gameplay (looked in videos) seem amazing.
Speaking as someone in Phoenix AZ, there was a very solid 5 years where Malifaux in store was simply not an option. Covid did as Covid does, but a major metro area with multiple game stores doesn't usually mean a two hour trip to a hole in the wall for old stock.
Fallout Wasteland Warfare would be interesting to hear about.
I picked up a crew when 2e came out, but was immediately turned off by the faction/crew dynamic (in-game, a player has access to all models in a faction, so having only one crew leaves players more open to hard counters and NPE).
I finally got over myself and started playing the game this year, and have come to the conclusion that the game is a) an incredible achievement in game mechanics and b) way way too complicated! And not only that: unlike other complicated games, where you can at least shoot your way to a fun time, Malifaux is synergy and strategy first, so you kinda have to know how to play before you can play.
It's a shame, because the card mechanics are immersive and engaging, the background rich and well-written, and the models utterly stunning.
They have a few variants with fewer models to tone down the complexity. Have you tried those?
My impression is that Malifaux is bigger than ever.
Had a big presence when we ran it in my area but it really is a game that fell off as soon as key players moved on or got disinterested in playing. Its a game that really strived on competitive play, and i think that was a factor for me dropping it personally.
Im drawn more to the general hobby of collecting, lore, painting, narrative campaigns, and i think the vast majority of players in my area were mainly interested in comp play. As soon as comp play isnt scratching the itch or starts getting boring, game is dropped.
Unfortunate since ive been waiting for a new edition for so long to give it another shot.
I tried joining a malifaux slow grow league with a friend, both of us brand new. Within a month none of the experienced players would show at the store, in favor of playing at stores further out. The game is quite complicated, and trying to learn the real rules without veterans... was a flop for us. Also couldnt find some of the models in stock even direct from wyrd.
I still think malifaux is very cool , looks cool and feels nice. It suffers the same thing as many games , it’s hard to thrive in a GW choked world. It’s hard to get many new fans. It’s a complex game but as said rewarding when you get into it.
I would like to be alive as much as this game is.
I even have a Malifaux group in a 12k population small town in Canada. Malifaux is far from dead. You guys are wrong.
What's the name of the store that stocks it?
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 401 games, we order them from Ontario and play in our basements!😁
As someone who backed TOS Kickstarter I can say the game was decent the models paint up gorgeously but that the whole thing was a mess once the initial campaign ended! I remember a bunch of delays resulting in it arriving really late (I think 2 years but it’s been awhile) terrible communication to backers no real updates for long stretches of time and they even forgot to pack backers free kits that we unlocked in campaign. I did get the set they forget faster then expected but when it arrived it was literally the models tossed in a box of packing peanuts no box no bag nothing just tossed in the box with the bases at the bottom at random and they didn’t even send me the tracking number they said they’d send. I backed it with the intention to add on an entire second faction in backer kit but wyrd burned that trust and I cut out everything I wanted to add on. Shame cause I had nothing but great experiences with Malifaux
Played a bunch of 1e and some 2e. Was too busy with work when 3e came out. Was thinking lately that I might like to get back into it. Cool world and lore.
I didn't realize the distributors were the reason it's not been on the shelf.
Other Side was of no interest to me. Companies need to grow, but they need to stabilize what they have first.
Ok! Breakdown from a Malifaux content creator while listening to this:
1. Game isn't dead. They state it's a Clickbait title. The title is more accurate to read 'The fall of Malifaux in our area'.
2. Minis printing in China/Taiwan has helped them succeed as a minis company, but it has also been the crux of a few issues stated later in the video, like the poor rollout of TOS. Distribution has been pretty hit-or-miss since the start of the pandemic but I don't think they can afford to shift to printing in the US as they're a small company.
3. The awkward rollout of 3rd ed was due to it getting leaked ahead of when they wanted to. They did a decent job of trying to mitigate the damage by making the beta public, but if they're to be blamed for anything, it's less-than-stellar web security, not the decision to announce the edition when they did.
4. Sales! Yes Wyrd has a 'sale' every Gencon, Black Friday, and Easter. I genuinely don't remember when Wyrd sold things that weren't being released more that a few weeks later. I'm not saying the creators are lying, but it has been a long while since that would have been the case. Definitely not in 3rd Ed which has been going for 5 years. The GenCon sale is the closest to said issue since whatever box or two they sell that's new is coming out that month (which happens at the end of the month). Black Friday and Easter's appeal are alt models that Wyrd only sells at that time. Those alts ALSO work their way into the prize support rotation.
5. The henchman program ended with the shift into 3rd edition (5 years ago) and hasn't come back, probably because of the logistics issues noted in this video. Those of us that want to run events just do, and we'll ask the company for prize support which they often deliver. Regardless, the only issue with running an event without a Henchman just mean you didn't get prize support, you can still run the event.
6. Again, 3rd edition was supposed to be announced later. It was a leak.
7. The boxes having invalid cards sucked, that's true. However, they were all still viable minis. Part of the mitigation of that issue was the rollout of the free app, as well as cards being fairly cheap to print online and the start of edition card packs. This 'issue' is applicable to all minis games that change editions?
8. Weird how forgiving the creators are to GW, but if it's what makes them money, they gotta be nice. I personally don't believe the singular edition change card packs wasted as much space as every codex change from 40k, though. I guess I'm also not sure how exactly one is supposed to handle an edition change 'correctly' at this point.
9. Correct on the game getting bloated. That's why they changed editions.
10. The card mechanic is integral to the system, correct. Both the cheating mechanic and the trigger mechanic are some of the core things that make the game what it is. It's a thinking game, where you have a lot of options and tactics in front of you that rewards being clever. If you'd rather push space bros forward and just shoot stuff, Malifaux isn't for you.
11. The distributer issue is kind of the distributer's fault, not Wyrd's. Wyrd's option to sell direct to stores was due to distributers being jerks (I think Diamond in the US being the worst culprit). They still use distributers, but the direct option is available for stores that wanted product but couldn't get it. I dunno if the direct option was the reason for the Canadian distributers to drop it, they don't directly say in the video.
12. I see a good amount of international chatter about the game, but I'm also listening in on the community. UK especially has a pretty stellar national event. Some people in other countries have really popularized playing on VASSAL.
13. There are youtubers? I don't get this point. They/we exist but since it's a game that's not GW nor based on a popular IP, it's just going to get less traffic. Also we have a solid podcast presence for what it's worth.
14. Since they're complimenting Steamforged, I feel like if we treat Steamforged like we're treating Wyrd here, they'd be saying they're the worst because they publicly blamed their community when they killed Guild Ball.
15. I don't know the reasoning behind Wyrd not paying for ads, but I don't recall them ever paying for ads. On top of that, they're like...30 employees. 'Why don't they do x?" could be answered by they are spending their resources on something else. Whether or not that's the correct thing to be focusing on can be debated.
16.TOS design was started when they were comfortably at the end of 2nd edition. It's a similar game to Malifaux in a lot of its mechanics, and I've heard several people describe it as a 'army-sized skirmish game' (I don't understand the bike analogy or saying it 'had nothing to do with' Malifaux). The kickstarter, I assume, was to gauge interest and build the money needed to print without seriously straining the company (I assume). The rollout was botched but that's the risk of printing across an ocean. Then they were hit with the pandemic which really hurt the game. It has solid bones, though, and they're still putting out content. As far as the minis are concerned, their first foray into preassembled minis did not go well. Subsequent products have been noticeably better (the aforementioned crossover boxes). That being said, the preassembled stuff was CHEAP compared to Malifaux minis. Buying a allegiance box got you half of an army at $4-$5 a mini.
Overall I wished they corrected the title, but from what I hear, they're attaining a good amount of attention from the Malifaux community that's slightly perturbed by the seeming dishonesty. It's not a dead game, but it definitely could have died in their area. Most of they opinions shared are from half a decade ago.
Ya'll talking in past tense. You do realize it's very much alive, is releasing sets in the regular, and is one of the most supported games outside of GW?
Their plastic lines are waaaaaay better than they used to do.
This is such a confusing video to put out.
I was about to comment the same, Malifaux is one of the most consistently played games at my FLGS, with a dedicated community and a substantial amount of dedicated shelf space (it recently took over most of Marvel Crisis Protocol’s shelves and is now the third most stocked game in the store after 40k, AoS and Infinity). This is the first time I’ve ever heard it talked about in the past tense.
Did you watch the whole video? Never said it was dead just in massive decline compared to early to mid 2nd edition.
It's great that it's doing so well where you are but you have to understand that doesn't mean anything on a large scale.
And like we also said in the video, we really loved it! I'm glad it's doing well at your shop I hope it's sustainable.
I started playing it when it first came out and worked two GenCons for them. But it just died in our area. Loved the card mechanic but store support was just lacking.
I always thought of Malifaux as some kind of RPG with miniatures, not as a skirmish competitive game meant for tournaments. This tends to make communities playing it kind of private, a bit similar to Necromunda in its current edition. I honestly didn't know they were still around, it's true their online presence is close to nothing.
We seem to have rattled the hard cores, claiming quite the opposite!
There’s just so many plates you can keep spinning, as a player. I see a number of systems that seem interesting, but picking up the new thing would mean putting down something else. I can remember when Malifaux first came out and one of the local stores started stocking it. There was just no one playing the game. Perhaps, if there had been some intro/launch events, the system might have taken off. But that didn’t happen.
Hey guys… love your actual take on the industry. I wish other commenters would realise that the channel and insights are based on industry and commerce. It’s really internet to hear your take on. Here in the uk it got about as big as it seems to have in Canada. One of the beloved alternatives to gw stuff.
One game I would love to hear your thoughts on is bushido. It’s a fantastic game, setting and lore is excellent. However, availability of product is… well… dogs@*t anywhere other than Gct. It is still a thriving community and product. It just seems to be that way despite a lack of availability in flgs and a Stone Age website from the manufacturer.
I’d also like to know how popular bushido is in Canada. I know that ash from guerilla plays it intermittently on his channel, but that man is an absolute machine in term as of the different games he plays
I think we realize it's they're industry experience but when you post a ragebait title and seem to refuse to believe the commenters when they say the game is doing well, folks get upset.
We liked the 1st edition, it was fresh and had vibrant looks. The world looked great initially. Then they made quite a bit of an artwork change and oddball choices for characters. But the real reason for me is that it's not an accessible game to show new players...it's far to heavy rule's wise and games become too long to play.
I absolutely loved playing Malifaux when I started in early 3rd edition. And I never understood why my FLGS salesman always got salty when I spoke about the game. Now I know. Thank you very much. 😀
Our local meta also shriveled away once we realized that nobody in our gaming circle had the mental capacity to play this game more than once a month. The bloat and special rules were just too much. And almost everyone has either a university degree or even a PhD and we usually love crunchy games. But Malifaux's complexity is just off the charts.
Playing a three round tournament is also really draining.
what attracted you to 3e?
i still have almost all 1e and many 2e minis for pick up games, but 3e lost me
@@gordo6908 I simply didn't know the earlier editions and I only saw the cool plastic minis and the brainy ruleset. Then the bloat set in and they released dozens of masters and a new faction. The final straw were the master variants.
7:39 I really think that 'retiring' the models is key.
It's just too hard to keep going with ALL the models legal as then you can't release new models without increasing their power level. Eventually this breaks the game as the power of the miniatures becomes impossible to have good games with.
On the other hand you have the enfranchised fans who have all these models - what do you do?
The solution for these smaller comanies is to do an 'MtG'. You need 'rotation' and different formats.
That way you can have 'Legacy' formats where you can use older models, but still get new fans in by having a 'standard' format where you can release new armies without having to break the game.
Where I’m at malifaux was big several years ago. The lgs stocked it but it was a short lived thing. There were a few people playing it but it didn’t last. I honestly didn’t know it was even still being produced. I do agree that GW gets all the attention but it’s big and it’s what sells.
GW can have competition and I think right now would be a good time for it. There was a time when warmahordes was being played by more people in my area than 40k.
I can't see why people like Malifaux. It doesn't appeal to me at all.
Ah that's too bad. Well for me specifically, the setting is a wonderful playground for interesting minis as well as a backdrop for an excellent RPG. The unique mechanics are flavorful and add to a rewarding complexity. The minis are really diverse in both gender and race. The company quite often listens to the community. There are an array of ways to play, not just the standard 50ss format. I've been able to run a podcast for 8 years just talking about whatever we're currently enjoying without it becoming stale.
I played it back in the day. It just didn't have staying power for me.
Loved the aesthetics of Malifaux and Dark Age, but finding other people to play was like pulling teeth when GW is all a store pushes.
ToS being kickatarter only removed any store support and kneecapped it. M3 shifting to direct and having endleas problems getting products to shops did the same. In markets where stores are the main venue rather than clubs this really hurts driving broad support rather than localized pockets. Same with making deeply desired products direct only, or early avalable, or unser MSRP. If a store cant make mo wy on it they wont support it.
Exactly. Which is why I think there is still some life in malifaux in Europe due to the very strong clubs system over there.
I enjoyed 1st edition. They lost me at 2nd. When they dropped half the crews for a bit. Came back. I felt like with the bloat, it was unfortunately one of the most "got ya" games having all the convoluted rules interactions. Sold all my crews last month.
Personnaly, I love the game when it's all casual. It becomes a mess as soon as you face a power plower who knows way to much how to synergize everything.
There are casual gametypes, too.
I tried to get into it. So much to love about it but there was just far too many rules. Never mind losing but I often felt like I’d no idea what was happening half the time. Shame as I love so much about it.
->4:56 "In Warfare, *_Flexibility, Timing & Subterfuge_* are paramount to success & VICTORY in the field & abroad."
( * And indeed this applies ubiquitously to many other aspects of Life )
So true. Malifaux is one of my favorite game but the lack of availability in my country (France) made me drop it...
I just tried to get into malifaux while waiting for 4th ed AoS and news about the fate of Warcry. I like the setting, models, cheap entry and the skirmish style, but I found the lack of community on RUclips a downside. I am also surprised by the lack of distribution and that the game stores not knowing what models are in their next shipment or when it would arrive, seems like a Covid flashback. Surprisingly my FLGS gives it as much wall space as Games Workshop and has tournaments every other month. I tried to give it a go but my plans have been side lined by AoS 4th rules and codexes being released while I was waiting for my crew models to arrive.
I'm surprised you struggled to find much luck on RUclips, Malifaux has an incredibly strong set of content creators covering lore, battle reports and tactics regularly - you should check out T&G Productions and Defective Dice.
One of the bigger problems with The Other Side, from a player perspective, was that the models were preassembled, and they clearly cut corners in materials. The 'plastics' were abysmal, bendy and hard to clean.
I remember being shocked at the drop in quality..
yeah that was my first experience with malifaux stuff. Bought a starter box and was super disappointed with the quality and then never bought anything else from the company
@@menacingeye The starters are as easy as possible to get a Henchman Hardcore game going quickly. Very very few minis in Malifaux are pre-assembled and the ones that are are almost entirely starter boxes and alts.
I haven’t been able to sell virtually any Malifaux for a year despite people liking it and hyping it up 😂
It’s frustrating that almost every indie miniature game does these things. Why preorder from me when you can go to adepticon and get it 3 months early.
Or the new Moonstone kickstarter that strictly prevented retailers from ordering it.
These game companies don’t understand when the game dies.
The worst they do is maybe a box or two at GenCon then hits store shelves at the end of the month. The Black Friday/Easter sale are mostly about alts, which Wyrd doesn't give to retailers to sell but are often a part of their prize support for events.
Even with the short notice I still messed up and bought a copy of the N4 rulebook literally 3 days before N5 was announced haha.
Didn't play the game very much, but I loved the minis. I bought tons of them to paint and use for other games.
Absolutely
I quit Malifaux right after buying my first box - Pandora Core Box. There is a model in that set, called Candy. It's 1 inch tall girl standing on two 0.5mm legs. Those legs are all that connects her to a base. Two 0.5mm plastic legs. You can't pin them. They broke immediately, obviously.
I'd love to try the game. Maybe, in 10 years or something, when Wyrd will figure out that they can't just sculpt cool stuff without thinking what's going to happen when it'll be the time to build and paint.
They've made a concerted effort to be less fiddly in 3rd ed. There are still outlier kits but it's noticeable. No more Yan Lo's beard or Zombie Chihuahua tail. I believe Candy got an alt with a more solid connection point.
I bought Malifaux first edition but could never find anyone that wanted to play the game!
@@sweetmanedu where are you based? There is communities all over.
@@plantnerdsa I've long sold my stuff! I'm in Atlantic Canada. GW is king out this way...
Love these cautionary tale videos, it's really fascinating to hear these kinds of stories. I remember the first box I painted to completion was the Oxfordian mages. I always liked the Malifaux aesthetic better than other games, the sort of lovecraftian fantasy horror vibe was really unique and fun. Damn shame things went the way they did here in Canada, as someone who mostly just wants to paint I thought they made some really nice miniatures even if it sometimes felt like whoever designed the kits had a personal vendetta against whoever was trying to build them.
They're still making minis and since the outset of 3rd ed, they've been trying to make them easier to assemble. I'm a full-on fan but I can honestly say the assembly is the worst part of the entire experience.
most of the time, when a game has a new edition, I just want them to consolidate all of the faqs in the new edition. Like, the faq for blood bowl is like 19 pages for example. I'd love that consolidated into the 3rd season of the ruleset.
Related video topic. Conquest is still succeeding in smaller communities like Torchlight. What makes that happen? Does it need the retailer to believe in it? Do they have a better relatiosionship with distributors or do they sell direct to retailers? What is their veteran program like? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.
Conquest has some great ingredients, plastic, nice enough minis, cool game. There is at least 1 distributor in Canada that carries it and they are easy to deal with.
So its matter of the retailers giving it a chance. I think its barriers are.. Old World, Song of ice and fire, rank/flank games are not super in vogue. Competing for shelf space with GW, Atomic Mass, CB, Kickstarter products.
Years ago before KS, games just arrive at distributors and people kind of played what was new and available. All the choice now has made it hard for even great products to be relevant. Its like too many options.
I know when a games made it when I start getting daily, weekly phone calls from people looking for it. Conquest has not managed to reach that sort hype.. maybe its a marketing problem too.
Once they started to put out the Nightmare editions direct sale version of the sets it was the start of the end. They are still making some grear models but there is no store support. I think there is only one store that has any significant stock of the miniatures in the area and it is all over a year old.
is Malifaux dead? I never knew they stopped making it
I mean.. not technically dead.. They have a website and you can buy stuff...
It will always live in my heart
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 by your definition every game smaller than 40k is dead. Sure, it is a definition you can make, I am not sure it is a particularly useful one. I looked around and found a couple online vendors and a couple of tournaments where I live (Germany) without too much trouble.
Not even close.
literally hasn't been more popular here
I got into Malifaux cause I wanted to paint the models, overall It was an okay experince but that game is just way too hardcore for me to recommend. The box of Minis I purchased were tiny and hard to put together. The basic rules are fine, but the faction/unit rules were tough to digest, and the number of tokens littering the board is crazy. Its amazing that with all the above going on that the game can still be a lot of fun to play but it is.
I dunno if there's a video to this idea but it be interesting to hear your guys thoughts on digital rule sets for agnostic games.
Really enjoyed Malifaux back in the day. Loved the card mechanic.
It was quite fun having some say in your fate
Was a really great game, mechanics and most of the lore.
Some of their plastic miniatures are horrible to put together though, and lack some of the character the old stuff had. Their scale was very hit or miss as well.
Was really into it until it became painfully obvious that they used the power creep to sell minis.
Also they screwed around with what was in which boxes and such.
building the tiny 3 piece chihuahua was a special experience
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Haha!
Neverborne's insidious madness models was hard to put together WITH instructions.
On a lot of the gremlin models the feets are separate pieces...
And Yan-Lo's beard became legendary.
Wyrd even made a t-shirt about it ;)
I think you can probably support a game or a store. Hard to do both unless you only play GW these days. And honestly that’s just commerce. Stores will not take a risk on something that might flop, so they only stock well know brands, and that takes the smaller brands out of public view for the new person. Google is there though 😊
That's fair, but we explain in the video very clearly why this happened/happens. Wyrd made a lot of short term decisions chasing a quick buck which led to many stores backing off.
You can support a game or a store, we are just talking about the viewpoint of the retailer, since that's what we are :)
I never had a group to play with so i never tried it out but i did see alot of people who seemed to enjoy it at conventions
You compare things to Corvus Belli. I'd love to hear your thoughts about CB and what you think of their new edition coming out and how they do things.
Deader than dead!
Definitely not but if it's died in your local area that sucks and I'm sorry.
So this is why i can never find this in stock. Too bad, i love the minis.
Bruh. Malifaux is growing in my area. What an infuriating hot take.
Shouldn't you be trying to lift things up and get people excited? Why drive people away from a game?
Telling our story is all we can do. This video was not made on a whim, but after many many years and experiences.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 then why not talk about M3E at all? M2E was 5x years ago. That's like talking about 8th ED 40k as if its the current edition.
^This 100%. Malifaux 3E in 2019, Madness Expansion in 2022, and Ashes Expansion in 2024. Your experiences are real and did happen, but they are hopelessly out of date with where the game currently is. Try brushing up on how the current game is doing before labeling it as "fallen"
I'd like to see you talk about This Quar's War.
I am hearing the pains and challenges of a game store in Canada, trying to stock a game they like but it either being too expensive or just not possible due to distributors dropping it. I can understand that frustration, but to thumbnail and create a clickbait (your words from in the comments) title of a game being dead when that's completely wrong is just using your platform to try to push it down, which just sucks.
Your critiques of the game itself are rooted in the previous edition because you haven't played or seen the current edition, and you keep talking about how small their footprint is at conventions when that's verifiably not the case. You guys chose to go GW for your personal choices you called out in the video, but crapping on other games that are still being played and growing makes no sense. Come on, guys. You clearly didn't choose to do any research about the current state of the game or the company outside of the brief look on the website you mentioned at the very end as a footnote about models being used in The Other Side and Malifaux.
I'm sorry you had a negative experience trying to acquire and sell the game in 2e. That certainly had issues with the game's popularity locally, but it is not a representation of the whole. Don't lash out at the game and, by proxy, one of the nicest mini game communities out there by calling their favorite game/hobby dead.
Biased a bit mate?
I know the things we said are probably hard to hear. But they are an objective telling of what has occurred.
If you think Malifaux is as big today as it was during the early to mid days of 2nd, then there's not much I can do for you :)
I appreciate the comment, and like we said in the video, we loved the game. Your comment about us trying to stock the game is at the end of the story - ignoring the entire journey of how we got there.
All the best.
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 clearly biased of course; you're coming after a game I love and a hobby I really enjoy. Your objective telling stopped at 2e, which is dated and just verifiably wrong in many places where things stand today. Don't use your platform to try and suffocate a great game that continues to grow and has a top notch community
Always looked like a game for people who shop at Hot Topic, they should have done a collaboration.
Don't call my wife out like that.
@@dbroman99 Sry bro.
Would love to hear your take on the Knight Models games.
I tried to get into it, but my local community was way too competitive to teach the game in any decent manner. It was weird going from other table tops where the jump in was enjoyable, and people were happy to help. Seemed like everyone was that guy and it really ruined the game for me. Love the models though got me a ton of goblins.
Yeah I'm one of the biggest fans of the game but if your local community is a bunch of pricks, don't try to force yourself to enjoy it.
WHOOOOA! Hold up! Wait a minutes! Leeeeets back up to that point where you're talking about that one customer who bought that mini from somewhere else other than your store. You stated that this gave you animosity towards that customer, for buying something outside your store. You then proceeded to talk about how your customer is wrong for not supporting the place they are playing in. Think about that for a minute....
THAT is not the game company causing you to have animosity towards your customer. YOUR customer has a life to live, responsibilities, and bills to pay - just like you do. Now, i understand the need for customers to support their "FLGS" and all, but thats just not right at all. You can't get pissy with your customers, because they don't buy their models from you. And if i were to ever feel that vibe from my "FLGS", i'd stop going there. As a customer, i'm there to have fun, and not have an anxiety/salty-prone salesman looking at me with disdain, over what i'm putting on the table. You want my money? You need to work for, kid. Because with how expensive this shit is, there is no way that i'm not buying my models from somewhere else. On the OTHER hand, i see purchasing stuff from my FLGS as a 'mercy', more than anything else - that is also not a healthy attitude to have, but it is most-definitely one that your ilk have fostered in the various tabletop gaming communities.
You provide a place to play games at, while hoping that they will spend money while there. Period. Thats it. Your relationship and thoughts on ANY customer should end there. When you start getting expectant, and blaming the game companies for your poor attitude towards your customers - that is exactly when you should start seeing your sales decline.
It is, and always will be about providing the best customer sales and services. When you are providing that, you'll never have another worry about where your customers are getting their games and models from. Don't be putting that on the game companies, OR on your customers EVER!!!
You want my money? Have a big fridge full of bottled drinks, a variety of snacks, and run event sales every so often. 10-15% for a weekend is a REALLY big deal, and will help you drive your sales. And if you're nice about it, and don't show any animosity towards your customer, then you might just get someone who loves spending money in your shop, because you've gone that extra mile to make sure they feel comfortable in your store.
You just described someone that comes to the store just to play games as a 'customer'. A customer is someone who purchases something from a business.
I hope that you can pay your bills with people having an 'experience' in your space but that doesn't work for most businesses. We are not a community centre, we do not recieve funding from the local government to cover our bills.
If you don't like that reality, you should probably play at home or rent out a space somewhere with your mates.
Thanks for the comment.
You sound really knowledgeable about this. Probably should open your own store.
Your customers could pay you with vibes!
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905just pay your bills with those massive vending machine profits!
We have good board games stores, but they are light on miniature and war gaming. They tend to focus on GW. So I tend to buy on the internet.
Given that I refuse to buy GW, from a gaming perspective, I don't have many options.
Have you hit up Frostgrave yet?
Great game!
The current edition of the game is very good, and yes the edition had a not great start. The free application is very good and you really don't need the cards. The keyword mechanic has very much thinned down the SKUs. I see your point about selling product early on their website, but I'm not entirely sure you as store owners are going to pick those sales up over those sales going to online retailers. To be logically consistent, I'd expect you get angry at people who buy from online retailers undercutting you, so is this just a case of the act being made visible by the models Wyrd sold not being in general release? Malifaux as it exists in 2024 is the product you would have wanted before. I guess the question is if you are going to look at things for what they are or sit there and be mad about the past?
Steamforged mismanaged guildball into the ground and hardly anyone has heard of Godtear and they are taking over Warmachine which is mismanaged into a shell of its former self.
Corvus Belli couldn't finish a product line if you put a gun to its head, and is a much worse rug puller on factions.
This.
What are your recommendations for good miniatures? I don't really play anything, I like the hobby/painting side of things
Oh man...there's so much good stuff!
If you like painting but don't care about games, I'd check out Figured and Busts, which can be a lot more rewarding to paint.
Check out Big Child Creatives, Black Sun Miniatures as a start.
As far as smaller minis, Marvel Crisis Protocol if you like super heroes, Shatterpoint if you like star wars, I like Warcry and Kill Team minis for GW for painting, for DnD the Frameworks series is really sharp.
very interesting video I played malifaux the first edition for a bit however like warmachine it kinda really died off in the part of canada i'm from on the west coast probably before second edition.
i once looked into it . wasnt sure what to buy.. gave up.
it was an art form to explain to people what to buy.. You can just buy a thing.. Or .. everything.. .the choice is yours!
Find a Core box that speaks to you (has 'XXX Core Box' as a name). Under the box title is a keyword (Marshal, Redchapel, Nephilim, Freikorps, etc). Find another box or two with the same keyword under the title and you should have enough for a 50ss game. Grab a starter box for the faction if you need materials. Boxes show which faction they are for with the circular symbol on the bottom/side as well as the color of the art background.
Mixing every posible estetic is a recipe for disaster, kinda identity crysis
I think they pulled it off ok...but I can't see your point.
I would love to lnow wtf happened to rakham games??.. i thougjt confrontation was pretty fun, lots of gpod models and they just evaporated..I've always had a personal conspiracy theory that GW wrote them a check to go away
Rackham's demise is directly linked to the price of tin skyrocketing from 2006-2008. They tried pivoting to pre-painted plastics but (1) the only thing their pre-existing customer base wanted were bespoke metal miniatures, and (2) the price of oil also skyrocketed so plastic miniatures became expensive as well (see: Monsterpocalypse v1). It's also why so many other companies started moving away from metal miniatures around the same time (GW's Finecast, PP's PVC, Reaper Bones, etc.).
Ash from Guerillaminiature Games and Vince Vinturella have both videos about it, but crann777 has summarized it quite well.
Confrontation 2.0 and Ragnarok will remain my happiest tabletop memories in my favorite fantasy setting and my biggest heartbreak when it comes to games.
Don’t tell Malifaux fans (especially Henchmen) that their game is dead, even if it seems obvious from a retail perspective. During my weekly visit to local game stores last week, everyone was playing either Age of Sigmar or Warhammer 40k, and they were all talking about the new Kill Team. That's three games from the same company. Local game stores are surviving mainly on Games Workshop products, with a sprinkling of Magic: The Gathering and Pokémon players. Don't get me wrong-I don’t think this is good for the overall hobby, but it’s the reality. I see Malifaux's future like Mordheim’s: a handful of passionate fans playing a game that’s no longer supported
It's true. We don't like it much either, but we are just reporting it as we see it.
If the people in your store don't want to play a game you push, that's on you. Do your job rather than whining on RUclips.
Great advice! Thanks for listening to our video.
Recently watched your legion, video then malifaux. I think you made one on warcry also. All dying games. I've been trying to keep up with gurilla minitures video, but I'm missing games that are actually doing well. Gorillas starter box video didn't give me too much confidence. 40k has too dense a rule set. If I'm going to be an advocate for a game, do you have any recommendation? Currently playing legion and frostgrave.
The beautiful thing about frostgrave is that it's not actually trying to break into shops. It's mini agnostic which means customers can use anything, which hobby stores love because we have lots of minis.
Legion is headed for shaky times. It's impossible to know how it will go, but at the end of the day if you invest time and energy into getting some mates together regularly to play just about anything you will be happy.
Hope that helps!
@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 trying to figure out how to navigate that. I've only been in the hobby sense 2019. Started with x wing. Then moved into legion. In the seattle area it feels like groups are based around a game. I've never seen a group switch from 1 game to another. The group usually just falls apart. That is the advantage board games have over miniatures. The new people don't have to ramp up a collection. All the piece are already in the box. What minitures games are popular over there?
Lazy, baseless ragebait.
Lazy?
That's a little reductive for an experience spanning more than 5 years. It may not align with your experience but it's still our story to tell :)
Thanks for the comment :)
I got into malifaux a bit, had a few miniatures, on of the starter gang sets, got to play it just the once, was kinda fun but there wasnt much of a community for it where I was
these days system uses lots of cards and peripherals is a red flag, just not interested, still might get miniatures cus like cool mini is cool mini, but it's an instant nope not interested in playing that
but then these days I'm more into mini-agnaustic indie games
I've heard people are still playing!
Games in decline or even death phase doesn't mean that their physical models and rules disappear. Sometimes this galvanizes a community even more to rally around it and make something of it.
LOL these guys are deleting comments now on this post - wild look boys ... wild
Negative videos spike controversy and engagement. They'll probably prune the comment section to keep it negative enough so people keep commenting and the video does better.
lol evidence?
Malifaux is that game you pick up when you're tired of the current edition of your main game and immediately drop when a new edition of your main game is released. I really like the latest edition of Malifaux and enjoy painting the models but I also know that the interest in my area is cyclical.
Funny.. but so true
True. Plus the models from Wyrd are just a tier below most of their competitors with odd sprue designs.
@@40KWill a tier below?
Sprue design yes. But model design. No ways. They have some of the best
@@plantnerdsa I would have agreed ten or maybe five years ago