Hands are hands and bat is bat. They key here is to make sure he did / did not offer at the pitch. If he didn't, then its a hit by pitch, and time is called. Batter awarded first. If he offered at the ball, it is a dead ball strike. Time is called and the strike is recorded. If its the third strike, then the batter is out and no runners my advance. Key point here is that seldom do the announcers get the rule correct.
A hit-by-pitch occurs when a batter is struck by a pitched ball without swinging at it. He is awarded first base as a result. Strikes supersede hit-by-pitches, meaning if the umpire rules that the pitch was in the strike zone or that the batter swung, the HBP is nullified.
Thanks for this video MJH-Baseball really helps explain the rule and clarify the situation. I also really like how you approach the issue with the ump by asking the question "Did it hit the bat or hands 1st?". That's smart. My only quip would be your statement that "Its almost impossible to hit the bat 1st". I think its actually quite common and here's my reason. Many players when attempting to avoid an HBP will use their hands defensively. Using your hands defensively can put the bat in all sorts of weird angles. It also can be considered a swing since the batter is attempting to hit the ball albeit in selfdefense. Also, as is customary I teach my players to roll away from an incoming pitch. This motion tends to leave the barrel towards the pitcher while the hands move back. Making it quite easy for the ball to hit bat first then fingers. Just my .02. Thanks for the video.
Agree. It isn't as unlikely as I make it sound. It's rare for it to occur without being fairly obvious. There is one HBP in this video where I think the ball hit the nob of the bat first, then the hand, but they put him on first anyway. When umping youth players, if I'm going to err on this one, I'd rather err on putting the hitter on base if I'm not real sure.
I've never seen a bat sold with a pair of hands attached. If a pitched ball hits a batter on the hand, except when batter is in the act of swinging, or offering at the ball, base awarded, hit by pitch. However, in play shown, it appears the ball hit the butt end of the bat, then struck the batter. The umpire probably heard it hit the bat. But the hands are not an extension of the bat.
you can use the "," and "." keys to go frame by frame. It isn't super high fps or anything, but you can pause the actual frame where the batter's eyes make it seem like the ball is crossing the plate. From there, it looks like the ball is on the edge of the strike zone. Kind of hard to tell from the angle of the camera, though, and I rarely call balls and strikes on TV since I am more of a radio guy.
the announcer is also wrong on another issue. when a batter is trying to bunt they don't have to pull the bat back. they just have to make an attempt to hit the ball or the ball has to be in the strike zone to be a strike.
Had this happen tonight and the 13 year old ump made the decision the hands were part of the bat. Why are we playing in a 12u travel league with 13 year old umpires? Your guess is as good as mine. Great video.
@@MJHBaseball I don't think so in this situation. We are playing in a competitive league, but it is run by a city. So they just use the same umps that they use for their rec leagues. It's pretty awful umpiring, with great competition. Of course that means that we've already had a few key calls where the young umps had no idea what to do.
The fact that the hands are not a part of the bat was emphatically explained by an instructor at a ASA umpires clinic I attended many moons ago before my knees failed me. He simply grabbed the bat that he had brought with him and dropped it. He then showed everyone that his hands were still attached to his wrists and not the bat. Case closed.
That's a nasty answer to a metaphor. Nobody believes the hands are literally part of a bat (or a basketball), but they say that to express that the ruling should be equivalent. They're wrong, but at least it's plausible. In fact in rules writing or any technical writing terms can be redefined from their ordinary meaning so that, for instance, a shirt can become part of someone's body, even if in ordinary parlance that would be absurd.
The rule is whatever the Home plate ump wants to call, whether it's written down anywhere or not. this has been true in all levels of baseball for roughly 170 years. Works on balls and strikes too. If he wants to consider that if a batter leaves his hands in the strike zone and they get hit by a pitched ball, then take your strike for a foul rather than your base for a HBP is entirely his prerogative.
thank you for mentioning the strike zone. nowadays, batters are crowding the plate, extending their arms, reaching for pitches, etc.; anything to induce a hit-by-pitch. (btw, thanks, coaches...) it's a contentious topic, but one that is CLEARLY addressed by every rule book out there. take the emotion out of the play and just make the call. if the pitch makes contact with the batter, it is an IMMEDIATE dead ball. take the next couple of seconds to interpret WHERE the contact occurred and rule accordingly.
This assumes all baseball rules are the same in all leagues. In my youth, the hands were part of the bat in the leagues I played in. If your finger was stuck when bunting, that's a foul ball.
Bro did not watch the whole video 😭He literally said that just because an ump might have made a bad call back in your league doesn’t mean it was a real rule
@@BigSnipp😂calling me a clown😂. He’s not saying he knows all the rules of all the leagues. He’s saying that NEVER, in ANY league, in the sport of baseball, were the hands considered part of the bat
Only if the umpire says he swung. If he is ruled to check swing without it being considered a swing, then he get's first as long as the pitched ball wasn't in the strike zone.
It has been a rule, multiple times someone has been hit in the hands and it was a foul ball. I have also been hit by a pitch in the hand and it was a foul ball. A coach has looked the rule up in our babe Ruth league and it is a foul ball
So if a player is bunting it's considered a strike, foul and dead ball if it his their hands first? What if they pull back the bat? Say their hands aren't in the strike zone and get hit first and have been pulled back in time?
No. If the pitch wasn't in the strike zone and the batter did not attempt to hit the ball, then it is a hit by pitch. In the video of the North Carolina batter, the umpire said the ball hit the bat first. In this case, the call is Foul. Not because he was bunting, but because the ball hit the nob of the bat and then hit his hand.
Mitch Miller. If a pitch hits a batter, "foul" never enters the picture. There are three possible results... 1. Dead ball, HBP, head to first 2. Dead ball, ball... no attempt to get out of the way 3. Dead ball, strike... ball hits batter in the strike zone or while he was attempting to hit ball Holding the barrel out in front of the plate would fall under #3.
Christopher or Chris/Critter C I'd love to see a citation of any code that differs from MLB, NCAA, and Federation, which all match up, despite their differing verbiage. Of course, in practice, the actual enforcement doesn't match what's written.
Well think about it this way. If I wanted to get on base. Why don't I just square to bunt and hold the barrel? You could put the hands anywhere and get on base. That's why it IS an extension of the bat.
Sorry, but wrong. And you didn't watch the video as all of this was covered. If the batter does what you say he'd not get 1st base, not because the hands are an extension of the bat, but because the ball was a pitched strike. OR, if he did, in the umpire's judgement, get hit on purpose, it may still be a Ball, and the batter would remain at the plate, but in neither case does it have anything to do with the hands being a part of the bat. The same calls would be made no matter what part of the body were hit.
first off one is not foul tip.... and 2. no there just proves how ignorant mlb announcers are hands aren't part of the bat think you for you knwoeldge of knowing nothing on rules you play for years commentators
I just had 2 umpires that umpire highschool and part of the regionals of the LLWS tell me that hands are an extension of the bat. 1-2 runners on 1st and 2nd. Kid swings at the ball. Ball hits hands. Umpires yell out foul ball. They tell me that the ball hit hands. So I said so you have dead ball strike out correct? They said you are joking right? Hands are an extension of the bat. I asked have you ever seen a bat dropped with hands attached? Have you ever seen a bat adversitized or bought with hands attached? Then said we obviously aren’t going to agree on this and walked away. Kid then went on to hit a ball over our right fielder for a triple. Absolutely ridiculous that highschool umpires who have been umpiring for 30+ and 12+ years don’t know that hands are apart of the person and not the bat. Then after the game the parents tell me that the umpire asked what they thought about his call then told them I needed to stop being a smart-ass. They were probably mid 30s and 60.
the umpire can still get the call wrong and even if in the moment it is pointless to argue with them we still need to make sure the correct information gets out there so umps don't continue to call it wrong because of a misunderstanding of the rules. the Ump is not infallible just largely unappealable.
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Great video--I'm still owed first base from 40 years ago, then! :-D
Hands are hands and bat is bat. They key here is to make sure he did / did not offer at the pitch. If he didn't, then its a hit by pitch, and time is called. Batter awarded first. If he offered at the ball, it is a dead ball strike. Time is called and the strike is recorded. If its the third strike, then the batter is out and no runners my advance. Key point here is that seldom do the announcers get the rule correct.
A hit-by-pitch occurs when a batter is struck by a pitched ball without swinging at it. He is awarded first base as a result. Strikes supersede hit-by-pitches, meaning if the umpire rules that the pitch was in the strike zone or that the batter swung, the HBP is nullified.
Thanks for this video MJH-Baseball really helps explain the rule and clarify the situation. I also really like how you approach the issue with the ump by asking the question "Did it hit the bat or hands 1st?". That's smart.
My only quip would be your statement that "Its almost impossible to hit the bat 1st". I think its actually quite common and here's my reason. Many players when attempting to avoid an HBP will use their hands defensively. Using your hands defensively can put the bat in all sorts of weird angles. It also can be considered a swing since the batter is attempting to hit the ball albeit in selfdefense.
Also, as is customary I teach my players to roll away from an incoming pitch. This motion tends to leave the barrel towards the pitcher while the hands move back. Making it quite easy for the ball to hit bat first then fingers.
Just my .02. Thanks for the video.
Agree. It isn't as unlikely as I make it sound. It's rare for it to occur without being fairly obvious. There is one HBP in this video where I think the ball hit the nob of the bat first, then the hand, but they put him on first anyway.
When umping youth players, if I'm going to err on this one, I'd rather err on putting the hitter on base if I'm not real sure.
Repeat after me:
The hands are part of the PERSON.
The hands are part of the PERSON.
The hands are part of the PERSON.
I've never seen a bat sold with a pair of hands attached. If a pitched ball hits a batter on the hand, except when batter is in the act of swinging, or offering at the ball, base awarded, hit by pitch. However, in play shown, it appears the ball hit the butt end of the bat, then struck the batter. The umpire probably heard it hit the bat. But the hands are not an extension of the bat.
No hands aren't part of the bat. Dose your bat come with a pair of hands? No no it doesn't
4:44 that kid with #27. I think he wasn't hit by the ball. Should have been a foul.
What kind of strike is that at 1:45
Looked like a strike to me.
Look's like it's in the other batters box.
Kinda looked off the plate😂
you can use the "," and "." keys to go frame by frame. It isn't super high fps or anything, but you can pause the actual frame where the batter's eyes make it seem like the ball is crossing the plate. From there, it looks like the ball is on the edge of the strike zone. Kind of hard to tell from the angle of the camera, though, and I rarely call balls and strikes on TV since I am more of a radio guy.
remember is not where the catcher catches the ball is where it goes over the plate
the announcer is also wrong on another issue. when a batter is trying to bunt they don't have to pull the bat back. they just have to make an attempt to hit the ball or the ball has to be in the strike zone to be a strike.
Had this happen tonight and the 13 year old ump made the decision the hands were part of the bat. Why are we playing in a 12u travel league with 13 year old umpires? Your guess is as good as mine. Great video.
Shortage of umpires? That means umpires are promoted higher up than they should just to cover games. Just a guess.
@@MJHBaseball I don't think so in this situation. We are playing in a competitive league, but it is run by a city. So they just use the same umps that they use for their rec leagues. It's pretty awful umpiring, with great competition. Of course that means that we've already had a few key calls where the young umps had no idea what to do.
The fact that the hands are not a part of the bat was emphatically explained by an instructor at a ASA umpires clinic I attended many moons ago before my knees failed me. He simply grabbed the bat that he had brought with him and dropped it. He then showed everyone that his hands were still attached to his wrists and not the bat. Case closed.
That's a nasty answer to a metaphor. Nobody believes the hands are literally part of a bat (or a basketball), but they say that to express that the ruling should be equivalent. They're wrong, but at least it's plausible. In fact in rules writing or any technical writing terms can be redefined from their ordinary meaning so that, for instance, a shirt can become part of someone's body, even if in ordinary parlance that would be absurd.
It's only considered when you swing and offer at the ball making it a foul ball or strike
The rule is whatever the Home plate ump wants to call, whether it's written down anywhere or not. this has been true in all levels of baseball for roughly 170 years. Works on balls and strikes too. If he wants to consider that if a batter leaves his hands in the strike zone and they get hit by a pitched ball, then take your strike for a foul rather than your base for a HBP is entirely his prerogative.
so if I umpire I can just call all 27 outs in the top of the first that is still the right call?
thank you for mentioning the strike zone. nowadays, batters are crowding the plate, extending their arms, reaching for pitches, etc.; anything to induce a hit-by-pitch. (btw, thanks, coaches...) it's a contentious topic, but one that is CLEARLY addressed by every rule book out there. take the emotion out of the play and just make the call. if the pitch makes contact with the batter, it is an IMMEDIATE dead ball. take the next couple of seconds to interpret WHERE the contact occurred and rule accordingly.
Hands are part of the arm . There are no bats that can be purchased with hands attached .
All I know is I always draped my pinky over the bat knob for a little extra extension and turnover until it got shattered...no more of that shit
This assumes all baseball rules are the same in all leagues. In my youth, the hands were part of the bat in the leagues I played in. If your finger was stuck when bunting, that's a foul ball.
Bro did not watch the whole video 😭He literally said that just because an ump might have made a bad call back in your league doesn’t mean it was a real rule
@@benjaminbinegar9353 I watched it, clown. Dude is wrong. No way he knows the rules of every baseball league.
@@BigSnipp😂calling me a clown😂. He’s not saying he knows all the rules of all the leagues. He’s saying that NEVER, in ANY league, in the sport of baseball, were the hands considered part of the bat
If it's a ball, and the batter check swings, it hits him in the hand, does he get the base?
Only if the umpire says he swung. If he is ruled to check swing without it being considered a swing, then he get's first as long as the pitched ball wasn't in the strike zone.
No , strike/foul ball , dead ball....
Be me;
>fouls of ball
>ball hits my leg and bounces into fair territory
>get thrown out at first
>get called out
>??????
You didn't foul off the ball because your legs are apart of the bat
Back when I played the hands were a part of the bat but that was also 13 years ago,rules could of changed
😆😆😆😆
The rules haven't changed. Old wive's tales will always be around as will sand lot ignorance.
i think the kid at 8:20 did a good fake out and got the call. I think it hit the knob of the bat and the kid did a good acting job
It has been a rule, multiple times someone has been hit in the hands and it was a foul ball. I have also been hit by a pitch in the hand and it was a foul ball. A coach has looked the rule up in our babe Ruth league and it is a foul ball
Walk he was hit by the pitch
So if a player is bunting it's considered a strike, foul and dead ball if it his their hands first?
What if they pull back the bat? Say their hands aren't in the strike zone and get hit first and have been pulled back in time?
No. If the pitch wasn't in the strike zone and the batter did not attempt to hit the ball, then it is a hit by pitch. In the video of the North Carolina batter, the umpire said the ball hit the bat first. In this case, the call is Foul. Not because he was bunting, but because the ball hit the nob of the bat and then hit his hand.
Mitch Miller. If a pitch hits a batter, "foul" never enters the picture. There are three possible results...
1. Dead ball, HBP, head to first
2. Dead ball, ball... no attempt to get out of the way
3. Dead ball, strike... ball hits batter in the strike zone or while he was attempting to hit ball
Holding the barrel out in front of the plate would fall under #3.
Dave H thanks!
it really depands on leauges some require you to make effort to move out others don't
Christopher or Chris/Critter C I'd love to see a citation of any code that differs from MLB, NCAA, and Federation, which all match up, despite their differing verbiage.
Of course, in practice, the actual enforcement doesn't match what's written.
I wouldn’t give first Baseball to the first kid. Almost looks like he pulls his bat back and puts his hands in the zone.
Doesn't know what a foul tip is ether !
I got hit in the hand my hand was purple but they didnt call it
Well think about it this way. If I wanted to get on base. Why don't I just square to bunt and hold the barrel? You could put the hands anywhere and get on base. That's why it IS an extension of the bat.
Sorry, but wrong. And you didn't watch the video as all of this was covered. If the batter does what you say he'd not get 1st base, not because the hands are an extension of the bat, but because the ball was a pitched strike. OR, if he did, in the umpire's judgement, get hit on purpose, it may still be a Ball, and the batter would remain at the plate, but in neither case does it have anything to do with the hands being a part of the bat. The same calls would be made no matter what part of the body were hit.
Hayden. S cant offer the bat. Thats why if you swing and get hit its a strike
Hayden. S kid pulled back not offering and tried to get away from the ball. Batter to first
Hayden. S if ball hit bat first then that is a foul ball
That'd be foul bc squaring to bunt is like swinging
No offer, hit by pitch. I guess if he got that wrong might as well get the last strike wrong too!
IT ᗯᗩᔕ ᗩ ᖴOᑌᒪ IT ᕼIT THE BAT Iᖴ YOᑌ ᗯᗩTᑕᕼ IT ᑕᒪOᔕEᒪY
Foul
Yes
But it hit his wrist😑
first off one is not foul tip.... and 2. no there just proves how ignorant mlb announcers are hands aren't part of the bat think you for you knwoeldge of knowing nothing on rules you play for years commentators
I just had 2 umpires that umpire highschool and part of the regionals of the LLWS tell me that hands are an extension of the bat.
1-2 runners on 1st and 2nd. Kid swings at the ball. Ball hits hands. Umpires yell out foul ball. They tell me that the ball hit hands. So I said so you have dead ball strike out correct? They said you are joking right? Hands are an extension of the bat. I asked have you ever seen a bat dropped with hands attached? Have you ever seen a bat adversitized or bought with hands attached? Then said we obviously aren’t going to agree on this and walked away. Kid then went on to hit a ball over our right fielder for a triple. Absolutely ridiculous that highschool umpires who have been umpiring for 30+ and 12+ years don’t know that hands are apart of the person and not the bat.
Then after the game the parents tell me that the umpire asked what they thought about his call then told them I needed to stop being a smart-ass. They were probably mid 30s and 60.
I also wouldn’t be a smart ass if they gave me an actual answer and not a dumbass myth for an answer.
They are in cricket.
this isn't cricket
What a revelation.
I got hit in my 1st game
One time I was batting and the ball hit the knob of the bat and the ump said it hit me
If you bunt your hands are a part of the bat
Plan and simple,what ever the umps call is that's what it is.you can argue with em till you blue in the face.
the umpire can still get the call wrong and even if in the moment it is pointless to argue with them we still need to make sure the correct information gets out there so umps don't continue to call it wrong because of a misunderstanding of the rules. the Ump is not infallible just largely unappealable.
foul tip all day
First?
Lego Star Wars Factory You're too fast.
I know
Hands are an extension of the bat. So if your hands are on the bat, and you get hit, they don't get a base. It's foul. That's how we play
Then you didn't watch the video... Watch the whole video and let me know what you think.
I did. It may be that way in little league. when I play and I saw it, they called it foul.
its not that way they just got in wrong or your really confuses
Not when bunting