Why was Jaqen H'Ghar in Kings Landing?
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
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I actually really like this theory. It makes sense that Littlefinger would have a backup plan to get rid of Ned, just in case Joffrey did let him take the black
Having a backup plan.. Sure.
Hiring the Faceless Men as a backup plan.. not so much.
Hiring the Faceless Men *is* the only plan. You don't need a backup plan or anything else when you hire them. It's not like they'll fail. Using them as a backup plan would be like having a cellphone in your pocket as a backup plan if your message in a bottle doesn't reach anyone..
@@thisguy8106plus the cost of killing someone important like stark 😂 na
@@thisguy8106 But knowing that Stark was going to take the black its not really a backup plan anymore. And even Littlefinger could not know that Joffrey would not obey. Calling it a backup planis wrong imo.
Well, and Tyrion speculated that Littlefinger may have been putting the idea in Joff’s head to have Ned executed. Typically if GRRM puts in a detail of a character thinking something like that he’s implying to the reader that that’s the truth.
I always figured he was on his way to Pyke for Theon's dad, and got caught for some reason.
I think Jaquen revealing to Arya that they only met because he had been hired to kill her father is exactly the type of thing GRRM would write
But in a yet unwritten book?? Or never to be written, I fear.
@@michaelbayer5094 this part of the book has already been written
Clearly was Cersei IMO. She was the only one who knew that Amed knew the true parentage of the children. I don’t think it was Little Finger, as didn’t know Ned was getting the pardon, that was between Varis and the queen
@@davidwindell that's what Cersei wanted tho was for him to take the black
@@jeambeam3173 While one part has been written it doesn't mean it couldn't come up in the last book, more of a closing so to speak. Considering the show only took some of the story, it would leave this as an option depending on how GRRM feels like putting it in, if he feels like putting it in.
Jaqen was doing what Jaqen always does….
Hanging out, being cool as hell.
What a badass.
A girl has spoken the truth.
Also love the irony of Arya befriending and being recruited by Jaqen while having no idea he was supposed to kill her father. If this theory is true, maybe she'll discover this later in the books, and it could end up being part of the reason why she turns against the Faceless Men.
"later in the books" - HA HA HA HA , there will never be another book -- he's bored and won't finish another one
@@firstname4337 I don't think he's bored of the story. I think he's hit a writer's block, or has come to the realization that he has too much he wants to explore with the story and not enough pages to do it.
If he was bored of the story, he probably wouldn't have started writing about the lore of Westeros, joining up with yet another HBO production to put life into another story that takes place within that universe. Clearly, George does in fact care about the world he's written.
Hearing George tell it, he's got so much material for winds of winter alone that it'll dwarf the largest ASOIAF book to date. Whether he'll live long enough to see that book alone finished is another matter of course.
Now obviously, being very very very old, a very slow writer by nature alone, and receiving constant reminders of impatient fans for him to keep working on the same story, doesn't help. So at the very least, writer's fatigue might of course play a role in this, but if he was truly bored of it, he wouldn't keep writing short stories within the universe, wouldn't work on HOTD, and wouldn't show up on panels and interviews regularly to still talk about it. He'd just hide away in his mansion with his wife and enjoy the money and time he's received because of his success and leave it at that.
@@RedFloyd469 exactly. It's obvious that the guy cares, it just seems like he's got too many plates spinning and he's not really sure how to bring it all in. Ironically, making it into a show(that became a pop culture phenomenon) has had to have added a ton of more stress and there's clearly much more eyeballs and expectations than when he set out on this.
but why ? The FM didn't actually kill Ned you have to be kind of insane to have that much need of revenge in you and I don't think arya is insane
@@mikepette4422 I mean…she’s definitely damaged and has already killed like 4 or 5 people at 10 years old (or however old she is in the books). And not being able to let go of revenge is kind of what her whole character is about. I don’t necessarily mean though that it’d make her wanna kill the FM, just that this would be the thing to make her decide to leave them, rather than what we got in the show. It’d be a realization that if she became a FM, she could be hired by her enemies or even sent to kill someone she loves, so it’d definitely make sense.
It also makes sense why Jaqen took an interest in Arya. If he did study Ned beforehand, he would likely recognize her once part of the caravan.
I've always thought the real question should be "WAS the prisoner in the black cells Jaqen?" Did he somehow take the face of the man in the black cells AFTER Ned pledged them to Yoren and before they were in the cage? Is that why Rorg and Biter so seemingly shit-scared of him?
This is always something I've wondered. No FM is going to languish in cells for any amount of time. Why would they? But to take the face of someone who is already there a few days before? That's exactly something an assassin with a bit of magic could and would do. We don't know how many faces he brought with him, we see Arya traveled with several at one time and she picked up at least two on her kill list forays. We don't know what happens down there, but we know they're kept alive. It would make perfect sense for them to be terrified if they witnessed even a small part of what a FM can do. Easily.
@@itsmainelyyou5541 I def agree that could be the reason why. You also have to remember the reason he was in the black cells in the first place may have just been to kill Ned who was also in the black cells
@@henrymorris6831 but then he would have taken the face of a guard?
Another factor adding to this is the coin he gives Arya. In no way, shape, or form, would he have been able to keep it hidden at length while he stayed within the black cells. Even if he kept it in his ass lmao. He also would have no time to reclaim it from another hidden location because he spent most of his time in the prison cart on the way to Harrenhal. He almost CERTAINLY stole the face of the real Jaqen like he does with Pate later on in the story. GRRM puts these things in the story for a reason.
@@pokeman5000he kept it in his prison pocket
This is solid detective work, the question of why Jaqen was hanging around didn't really strike me as one that had an answer, but this is plausible enough that I would buy it as what Martin had in mind.
This is solid, but possibly thinking a bit too much about why jaqen was in the red keep.
@@bagofnails6692 Also, didn't the Night's Watch get a bunch of prisoners? Why choose the black cells rather than just get yourself arrested for a crime and choose to take the black?
How fitting that Baelish's plan ultimately turned Arya into his executioner. Bravo. Great theory!
I love this theory but I love this consequence even more.
will be interesting to see what (with the help of Bran) Arya says to Littlefinger on his execution
Bravo Vince
Up until the moment Martin finishes a book that details Baelish's death, that's still show-canon, and not book canon. Right now, we don't know what will happen between Arya and Baelish just yet.
you liked that cheap conclusion?
My one issue I had with this is that someone as clever as Littlefinger should have been able to arange an accident for Ned while he was in the black cell. But then I remembered Varys many visits with Ned during his imprisonment. Varys more than likely had been keeping an eye on Neds wellbeing beyond just giving him water and ensuring he took the black. He had to have spys in place in those areas. So Littlefinger may have decided a faceless man was his only option.
Varys was pretending to be the jailkeep of the Black Cells and had been impersonating him for years. Soon after that connection is made, Varys disappears from King's Landing. This ties in with the ancient coin found in a cell when Jaime investigates his father's death.
I’d never considered LF not wanting word of his betrayal to get out as a motive, but that’s a really strong point and I can’t believe I hadn’t considered it before
Me too.
I missed that as well, and it is obvious once you think about Littlefinger's overall plan.
Same here. Now hearing this theory, it makes complete sense.
Not just that but he likely always held Ned in contempt for 'taking' his beloved Catelyn and Ned would likely be the biggest hindrance to getting his new obsession Sansa. So it wasn't just about solidifying his position in the game but it's also a deeply personal hatred warranting whatever exorbitant price the faceless men charge .
@@licensed_beheader that too for sure
I found that hearing the books in audio format I gained a whole new perspective. I've only listened to A Game of Thrones but still. In Bran's first prophetic dream it's obvious who all the characters are except I'd always been unsure of the giant with stone armor. Said giant is naught but shadow under the armor and he spews black bile or something like that.
I used to think it was distant foreshadowing of Robert Strong, but it's not. It's Littlefinger. He's a giant and he "stands above them all" is how bran sees it. He's playing everyone like marionettes.
It's probably meant to be tyrion. He's very different in the books and is expected to have a big heel turn coming up like dany.
Littlefinger could be the giant. He uses the sigil of the mockingbird that he invented for himself. His father and grandfather had the sigil of House Baelish which was the Giant of Braavos. That huge stone statue that ships sail under.
Why not consider Cersei as who hired the Faceless Men? She has the money, needed Ned out of the way since he knew the truth about Joffrey, and likely thought it would look better if Joffrey gave him clemency but Ned met with an "accident" while on the way to the Wall. I also have no doubt she has the contacts to get an assassin.
She certainly has the motive, but does she have the ability to think ahead? She's impulsive, passionate and constantly overrates her own intelligence and underrates everyone else's. Cersei's the type of person who makes decisions on a whim and then justifies them to herself and others retroactively, so I don't know if she'd have thought far enough ahead to get a Faceless Man in so early.
well in the cat of the canals chapters it’s explained that you cannot simply purchase an assassination via the faceless men with gold. The cost is something near and dear to you personally. Cersei might have the money but would she be willing to sacrifice her most important thing to have Ned killed ?
Same question applies to LF, doesn't it? Why should he be able to hire a FM with money alone, but not cersei? She fits all four criteria just as well as LF. Then again, we get her POV in later books, where there is no hint to her being involved in Jaqen's hiring (at least none I noticed). All that considered, I'm fine with the LF theory, although it feels somehow underwhelming for all the mistery around Jaqen
That was my first thought too. But then I realized cersei was quite upset when joffrey ordered the killing
@@korganrocks3995 I don't think you are giving Cersei enough credit. She usually thought two or three moves ahead, but failed to consider the long term effects, such as plunging the kingdom into endless war. Assassinating Ned while making her son seem like a beneficent king is the kind of short-term thinking she was best at.
I think you're exactly right.
Also, the question about the Faceless Men's returns policy really cracked me up.
I don't know if you're correct but I do know if anyone in a Song of Ice and Fire is capable of embezzling crown assets to fund an assassination it's definitely Petyr Baelish.
The faceless men aren't just the typical assassin gunning for the highest bidder, for them it's a religious ritual and sometimes their price isn't usually money but something deeply personal or taking half your net worth. It's usually just a headache and hiring one means whoever jaqen was supposed to kill really really pissed off someone.
5:32 Don’t forget that Hot Pie was also traveling in this same caravan. Who knows how many enemies he could have made in the kitchens. It is all very suspicious.
I would absolutely LOVE to see a series about TFM.
In Deep Geek already has a series abt the Faceless.
Titty flash monday? You knew about that? Think a short history would be cool yeah.
@@jgr7487 thats not the same as an HBO series
@@cjsrescues ok, I misunderstood your comment.
Man, it says a lot about LF that he hired the Faceless Men simply as a backup. Ned would have been doomed the moment LF gave his name to the Faceless Men, but he figured Joffrey would have way more effective at enraging the Starks with a public show than a simple roadside assassination. And also shows how unpredictable Joffrey was.
@@ericuyemura2399 Lmao don't tell me you're gullible enough to believe this with any merit
This is an old theory. The youtuber didnt come up with it. Its been around for 10 years
@@BronnBlackwater The only theories I've ever heard about Jaqen was that he was there for Arya Stark. Which always made zero sense to me. At least the idea of him targeting Eddard makes a ton more sense, and thus I'm much more willing to buy THIS theory than any other. After all, why would the Faceless Men of Braavos be there for Arya Stark, who, prior the downfall of House Stark, was a virtual nobody, that few people, not even Littlefinger, paid much attention to?
@@jacob4920 Dude you could say anyone but Ned would be the target and it would make more sense. Littlefinger knew Ned was going to die in a different way because he easily tricked joffrey into it. It doesn't make sense any way you look at it. It's a dumb theory with way more evidence against it than for it. Preston jacobs offers a slighly less dumb target. Bloodraven. Not only is Jaqen on a mission but he also has rourge and biter working for him who might also be faceless men. Atleast this isn't a target someone can kill in much easier ways like lying to a vicious and stupid boy king.
@@BenJover As if the Faceless Men would ever find Bloodraven. That's rich.
Also, Jaqen pretty much abandoned his mission halfway through, didn't he, after the whole incident at Harrenhal. Didn't even get as far as the Neck, much less the Wall.
Really? Faceless Men can just abandon their missions any time they want, without consequence? Doesn't seem like a terribly fearsome group of killers, when put in that light, does it?
I really appreciate and enjoy your content Robert. Keep up the good work and wishing you success across all your channels.
Another theory is that Jaquen have been on one job, this whole time.
Simply. the faceless men are researching how to kill dragons.
The Red Keep holds the remains of the Targaryen Dragons, and Jaquen might have snuck into the keep to get forensic evidence.
he either: Got caught/ or placed himself in the black cells, to get transport out of the city. (maybe even wanted to get information from the wall too?)
The reason he even stayed at Harrenhal, was because the place was destroyed by Balarion, and might yield some more information.
once he was forced to leave by Arya, he pretty much b-lined for Old Town to hit the books.
(the reason for this theory, is that the faceless men seemingly get their mission briefs in the house of black and white, so would be a long way back and forth, to report a failed mission and get a new one.)
Would you guess Varys was his contact in KL?
I think your right, and to add on I think its interesting that Littlefingers first assignation attempt on Bran went ary, so it makes sense for him to pay above prices to be assured Ned is dead before he gets North. Great video!
@pyropulse7932 Maybe in the books. I simply don't recall the text because the show vividly has LF admitting to once owning the knife but then telling Kat that he lost it gambling with Tyrion.
SO, we need a ruling!
@@michaelbayer5094 That is also in the books, and was not proof of anything. It was just cause for suspicion.
@pyropulse it was CERSIE who tried Assassinating Brand do you guys not pay attention? She was nervous when she found out he was not dead but in a coma Her brother the Imp tells her he might wake up and it will be interesting to find out how he fell that's what makes Cersei hire the assassin it's like wtf are you people watching or reading Horrible comprehension skills Wtf
I really enjoy the way you explain things. I can be a casual watcher of the show and your explanations are so good I can easily follow them. Thank you.
It's cool to think that GRRM has two deaths planned for characters, one hidden and slow and inevitable that's not able to play out because a chaotic event occurred that kills the character instead. One controversial theory is that Tywin was poisoned by The Viper, but before the death could play out Tywin was murdered by Tyrion.
I like the idea that Littlefinger did hire and help the faceless men, but random fortune reared its head giving LF an even better type of death. Knowing the faceless men, I doubt they even took payment given it'd be blasphemous to take credit for what their god deemed needed to happen.
No, he (Oberyn) was saving Tywin for last.
It is rather remarkable. GRRM would literally have to inhabit each individual character for days or weeks at a time. Supposing what each character would do in each event. And if that would indeed be the case, he would have to inhabit literally every character, even those completely displaced and uninvolved. Granted that possession would only have to be a partial day, but it might explain why his writing process takes so fecking long.
I agree that Little Finger did the hiring, but I think he did it much earlier on. I think Syrio became Jaqen. We know that he could have disappeared through the hidden tunnels. We never saw or heard it confirmed he was killed.
The writers confirmed he was dead in the show. I don't know about the books
Incredibly weak theory that syrio was jaqen, honestly only stupid people give that one any credibility, there’s no evidence of it being plausible in the literature.
It kinda ruins that Arya gets help from many different people, who form who she is. If it was all just Jaqen, it feels a bit less interesting to me.
I always wondered what he was doing there but never thought deep enough. This makes the most sense. Surprised it wasn’t shown as a scene
Robert,
Is Arya's Dance Master (Syrio Forel) and former first sword of Bravos a Faceless Man? Is it possible that he is Jaqen H'ghar? Acting as Arya's dance master gives him the perfect opportunity to study Ned. His conversations about what do we say to Death, and the fact we never see him die on screen as-well-as it puts him in a position to know who Arya is, and her desires not to be a "Lady."
Syrio was a very lovable character. Very interesting theory, my friend
In Deep Geek has a video on this theory
This was always my theory
I'm certain he let himself be captured rather than letting himself be killed. He probably appeared to Ned in that form at the pleading of the gods to rescue and train Arya.
I always thought that, and that the King's Guard threw him in a political cell, because he is a foreigner. But Varys could him gotten in there, too.
Loved this. One of my burning questions was what he was doing there and this may be the reason why.
I love the depth soiaf provides!
I don’t think that the person paying the assassin would need to know about plans to send Ned to the wall. The assassin could’ve obtained that information himself. Wouldn’t be surprised if it was someone else renting the assassin months earlier.
Lannisters? While Ned was still the hand? But things changed quickly and they forgot?
Really Intelligent and interesting approach. I had thought that, but was surprised it wasn’t revealed during Aria’s training.
I never read the books, only watched the show. One of my favorite characters was Ariya's dance teacher. Wish we had got more back story on him. He brought a plank to a sword fight n held his own.
HOLY SH*T. I never even gave a second thought as to why Jaqen was there. This theory sounds so right.
Brilliant analysis. Makes me wonder how i never remembered Ned would have been in the caravan.
There’s a Jamie chapter in Feast I think when he’s talking to the jailer and he mentions Ned signed off on three prisoners
The 3 Yoren would take?
This makes perfect sense!!! Absolutely perfect!! All the connections & reasons are in your theory. Thank you. I am 100% going with this. Never thought of it. Couldn't figure out why he was there. Except to recruit Arya. But i now think, that was an after thought.
This is a great theory. I had always considered that it was Illyrio. That he had heard from Jon Connington of Jon Snow's true parentage (JonCon was close with Raegar after all) and how Ned knew of it and would likely reveal this information in the event of a war between the north and the Crown/Lannisters. This would of course put a damper on their plans to crown (f)Aegon and Danny since Jon Snow is ahead of both in the line of succession.
He had his ally (and as I understand it brother-in-law) Varys keeping an eye on Ned in the dark cell. He could have him killed for free, safely, fast, for no expense and without waiting and risking that he talks.
Jon wasn't born at the Tower of Joy after the war, he was born precisely as the sack of King's Landing occurred as confirmed by GRRM so Jon could not be the baby born there because there were months between then and when Ned managed to get to Dorne. Jon is older than Robb by several months, possibly conceived at Harrenhal or very soon after that. Please recall that Ned was sighted with a very beautiful woman while traveling north by ship to call his banners. With his own head demanded by Aerys for no crime at all and Benjen being only a boy, Ned likely married in secret to secure the Stark bloodline and name then had the mother (likely Ashara Dayne) pretend the child was a bastard to protect her from any treasonous accusations and to protect Jon if the Rebellion failed. Also, Ned was a total fanboy for the Sworn of the Morning and House Dayne was a First Man house plus had a huge crush on Ashara. It's important enough that Ned Dayne mentioned it to Arya, assuming she knew.
@@robertphillips213 The father was the Targaryen king and Cat Stark's sister, who had secretly married.
@@asnark7115 Really? I've read the book series multiple times over 20 years and never found any evidence of that, only contradictions to that theory, but you must've found hard evidence I somehow missed. Care to share your source?
This makes me all the more satisfied with how Littlefinger met his end. Very Karmic.
One thing you forgot about was when Arya was "the cat of the canals". She had went into the area of the Red Keep where the dragon skulls were, and had over heard two men talking about assassination the hand of the king. Then shortly after Arya tried to tell Ned Sirio shows up. My bet is Sirio wasnt truly the First Sword of Bravos, but it was a disguise to get close to Ned. Ned would have known one way or another. And remember "The Tower of the Hand has eyes and ears".
So Jaqen is also an expert swordsman. Manages to defeat the Lanister brutes with his stick and immediately after scurries down to the black cells? That is a faaaaaaaar reach.
I never asked this question, but I agree 99% with this theory.
Valar Morghulis! You have reached Faceless Man Customer Service. Our assassins are currently busy murdering other customers. Please hold for the next available raven handler or select one of the following. For service press 1, for returns press 2, for your final sleep press 3, or come visit us at the house of Black and White, anytime.
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Still one of my most favorite theories! It just makes so much sense. Love it!
I like the theory that he is another prophet, like Bran and Melisandre. Following the bread crumb trail his god is leaving him. The black cells is where his premonitions told him he needed to be, so that's where he went. It would also explain why Arya was allowed to just leave(in the show anyway, lets see if the book follows). It fit his visions.
Yeah, I think this is the better explanation. The FM probably have some method of seeing into the future like Bran, the Red Witches, the Warlock of Qarth, etc. Melisandre got a glimpse into Arya's destiny from a brief encounter with her, so its not too much of a stretch to imagine that other mystical factions would also be interested. The FM view death as a peaceful inevitability. Something that comes to all, but is not necessarily a bad thing. The Night King and the White Walkers pervert that. The Night King himself is immortal and his main skill, necromancy, disturbs those who have gone to their peaceful rest. Arya, by killing him, brings death to the deathless and proves that all men truly must die. (Even spooky immortal White Walkers). In that way, she is arguably the greatest servant of the Many Faced God. That's why they treat her differently, and just let her go in the end. They're not training her to be a normal faceless man, they're shaping her and sending her out to fulfill that different grand destiny.
Exactly how much they can see of this, I'm not really sure. But I do think that he's not there to assassinate anyone. He's there to recruit her.
I agree completely! (I hadn't realized/thought that Ned was supposed to be traveling with the caravan, so thank you for that! It makes it all make sense now!) I've always been struck by the fact that in S7, when Littlefinger is cooking up all that bad blood between Sansa & Arya, after she learns Arya is a Faceless Man, she asks LF if he knows what the FM are. And in his very cryptic Littlefinger way he answers 'Only by reputation'. Now we didn't ever see him deal with them directly, but it just screamed that LF knew more than he was saying. (Just like when he gave Bran the Catspaw dagger - the same one HE had supplied to kill him!)
So Arya Stark, unknowingly, actually takes interest in the proposed assassinator of her father, and takes him as her teacher.
This explains also why Jaqen is somewhat distant but strangely interested in her. Like he owes her more than just his symbolic 'life', as he in reality did not have much to fear from being imprisoned. And pays her far more back than she gave him.
I have always wondered about this from the beginning. Thank you for answering this question.
It does make sense! The irony of him allowing her a certain number of deaths, including his 'own' by changing faces because he 'owes' her a debt for saving his life despite him knowing he was contracted to kill her father..In GRRM land, yeah! Lol.
I clicked on this video having no real idea. Now that I've seen it, it feels obvious. Good stuff!
I think Varys has every reason and fits every criteria. He knew about the deal (did littlefinger?), was rich, had better connections across the narrow sea than littlefinger, and had better reasons for wanting war.
I'm pretty sure varys wanted to collect Ned like a tyrion or barristan situation. He doesn't want chaos yet. Griff isn't ready.
Ned didn't want to kill Dany. He was strong and a powerful ally who had nothing against Varys or Dany, even Young Griff. Varys had no reason to kill him at that point.
Nonsense. Why in the world would Varys be helping him if all the while he wanted him dead. Varys isn't strutting around Kings Landing announcing wide and far that he is helping the Start in the black dungeons. And lets be real here. A man in the deepest darkest dungeon can easily be killed by a myriad of means. Why spend the coin when a mere favor would have gotten the job done( heck, dont visit his cell for four days. Literally have to do nothing and he's dead).
Makes 10/10 sense to me. Love the analysis
Kinda messed up that if Jaqen was hired to kill Ned, he then instead strikes up a friendship with Ned’s daughter lol
Nothing personal kid.
@pyropulse which is what a theory is
@@Banned_and_Redacted yeah, if one would had actual concrete evidence, it would stop being a theory, It'd be a fact.
@pyropulse There are confirmed theories that at one point had only this strength and volume of evidence to support them. Honestly this is exactly the kind of secret that GRRM might write into his books. In fact, the books are FILLED with this kind of thing.
Brilliantly done. One note I’d add is that Littlefinger’s dealing with the Iron Bank helps to reveal the potential link between LF and the Faceless.
He can easily do it on a trip to discuss their dealings or sent word to them through correspondence and envoys
He got in there when he was arrested by Ser Trant 😉
Ned just happening to find the former First Sword of Braavos when looking for a fencing trainer for Arya is a little too coincidental.
Syrio Forel came with an excellent reputation. That reputation would not have been given by one source. He had been in Kings Landing for some time and had acquired a name for himself.
Very well documented, well narrated - I am thrilled!
This explains why Jaqen was interested in Arya in the first place. He was possibly curious about why Ned was wanted dead by many people only to find fiery Arya Stark who always stood up for what she believes in
This is my favourite of all your theories. Well done!
If Jaqen's dealings with Arya are any indication I suspect they'd demand their client name another target in the event the hit whiffed because the target died incidentally. The gold payment is something of a sacrifice I think. You don't get a refund on a sacrifice.
I don't think that's how it works. There was a death. The person doesn't matter. The reason Ja'qen owes Arya 3 kills is because she saved 3 lives. Just because a target dies incidentally doesn't mean you need to go kill anyone else in their place.
Seconded. @@dirrdevil
its interesting that in his conversation littlefinger had with varys before roberts death varys brought up issue about littlefinger offering corpuses to a client for unknown reason considering the theory that he hired the faceless men it kinda makes as littlefinger probably gave him corpses to use as new faces for the task to kill ned.
I think he was in the Black Dungeons because he was captured when the Lannisters moved against the Starks. That is to say he was Syrio Forel, and his job was indeed likely to kill Ned, that said, he did indeed take an interest in Arya at that time. Even Syrio's style of teaching had some rather similar lessions and styles to how the faceless men taught her.
Syrio wouldn't have killed Ned. I just don't see it. He died (or not) protecting Arya.
@@kristinalebedeva9371The real Faceless Men of the books quite clearly *become* the person whose face they steal. "Jaqen" was just one face, after all, and we don't know his real name. A Faceless Man would act exactly the way the person whose face they wear acts, until it's time for the killing blow. Syrio wouldn't do that to Ned, and would've liked Arya? Then that's what the Faceless Man wearing Syrio's face would be like. Syrio would be willing to die for Arya? The Faceless Man would act as if dying for Arya, maybe to the point of faking his death or injury, using slight of hand combined by magic.
How Syrio would act in reality, doesn't disprove him having been a Faceless Man, in my opinion. Not saying that I commit to that theory, only that Syrio's disposition toward Ned and Arya doesn't disprove it.
It's because they from the same city
Exactly, both from Bravos. @@maadtee6281
This makes the most sense of any theory I heard about this. It makes complete sense.
A question you may have missed is why Jaqen actually went with the caravan. He could have changed faces much earlier and disappeared. So, probably there was a reason for him to stay.
He was locked up in the most secure place in KL. Changing his face wouldn't have helped if he couldn't get out. Even without Arya, the caravan would offer more escape opportunities.
Wasn't he imprisoned? I mean obviously he was always going to escape at some point, but maybe he couldn't do it earlier for one reason or another. Did he have any opportunity between confirming Ned's death and the caravan taking off (and him noticing Arya)?
I don't remember the books in detail so I'm not just asking rhetorically.
Seems to me escaping on the King's Road was the simplest option for Jaqen.
Arya.
@@JimmyLundberg If I recall correctly, he was in a cage for most of the time, maybe he could have broken out, but it was easier to go to the north and escape there. Also, maybe he could not get out of the cage and we overrate his abilities.
@@erdelegy not part of the plan from the start at all, more that he found a potential apprentice and - given that his mission was redundant - decided to stick around and point her in the right direction.
Damn, I never thought of that possibility, but it totally makes sense to me, you made a strong case for it.
Lol I loved how pleased Joff looks with himself in that shot at 11:36, never really looked at it during this scene before.
Damn. I have never thought about Jaqen being in the caravan as something deliberate. And so it never made sense to me that he was caught and didn't escape somehow. And the sigil difference in Littlefinger and Bailish is a cool detail.
GOT amuses me more and more. It's like there's 10 books of stories in every single book we got so far. No wonder they take so long to make.
Very interesting theory! Don't forget that we discover later in the series the Varys is actually in control of the black cells by pretending to be one of the gaolers. They don't discover the disorder that the jail is in until Tywin is killed and they start looking at who is over what level, ect... I'm not saying that Varys is in on it, but that's how he was able to sneak in and see Ned so easily.
Chaos is a ladder...
Love this theory! Little Finger is one of the best characters in the story. This man started the War of 5 kings just so he could become the most powerful man in Westeros. Sadly, he didn't win the Game of Thrones.
Maybe Jaquen really was after Ned, not just to kill him but to become Lord Stark himself. With his public execution, that plan failed but he chose to keep traveling north, even after joining the Lannisters... Arya was his prize for some reason. He's up to something that requires a stark.... And Little fingers involvement with the Faceless Men is far deeper than having the money to hire them... His grandfather was connected to Bravos and LF could be an agent for the Iron Banks machinations... Hell, a Faceless man could have assumed the role of LF back when Brandon cut him in their duel over Cat
Robert, I am just starting the video and oh baby!! I love these theories. I could truly watch your videos all day, so thank you!
“They are paid for a precision strike often made to look like an accident” masters of disguise and assassination with a very large price but can make kills look like accidents. Agent 47 must be a dimension travelling faceless man. 😂
One theory I've read about over the years is that there is a specific rare book, Death of Dragons or something like that, with two copies mentioned separately in the books at Castle Black (Jaqens first "destination"?) and the Citadel (where he goes after the caravan and Harrenhal). Bravos likes dead dragons on principle, he might have been heading for the less secure library first, but the whole CF of the WotFK made the journey North too difficult.
This is brilliant. I think you are right on. You are so smart - but that is why I watch your channel. Thanks, Robert! I hope you are having a nice weekend. 🙂
Do we know that he was in at the same time as Ned? Yoren was given his pick of the dungeons by Ned, after all. Seems to me Yoren probably got there first, there's no mention by Ned of him down there.
Excellent theory. It makes a lot of sense
So there is one other really good theory.
Jaqan was hired by the Blackfyre bloc to kill Bloodraven.
There's a lot of mention of gold coins, and coins people don't recognise in A Feast for Crows, whether it be Pate's coin that he doesn't know the king of, the Gardener coins the Tyrells use because they have less gold content in them that makes Cersei almost certain they had a hand in Tywin's murder, Arya's murder using a poison coin of her own. And, in one of the Dunk and Egg books, we learn the Blackfyres had minted their own coinage. It's likely the Golden Company still has this false king coin in their pockets for the last 100 years, or were even printing new coins for new Blackfyre claimants like Maelys and the various Aegon's.
I bring this up because with all the coin circulating the plot, especially to do with plots to assassinate people, and even Jaqan himself killing Pate, we can link coin with the Faceless men. It's a stretch, but we can link coins with both Assassination, Faceless Men, and maybe with Kings people don't recognise.
Anyway, Jaqan was in the Black cells. We know Varys is working as a undergaelor for the Black Cells, and is able to sneak in that way, as he does for Ned. That means he knows Jaqan, Rorge and Biter are in the cells, and likely what for. Like IDG said, their presence there is weird and makes no sense unless it's a setup. Having them in King's Landing, near Varys, makes sense if it was to get the two of them to communicate, then get the assassins to the Wall. From the Wall, they can go North on a ranging and try to find Bloodraven. It's a dangerous, nuts plan that likely required a King's Ransom in money, but the Golden company is rich, and Varys is also likely to skim a bit of money from the treasury, especially if he thinks its in service to his future King, Aegon.
So, Jaqan and co. are on their way to the Wall. They are stopped and forced to remain at Harrenhal for quite some time. By the time they can leave, Moat Cailin has fallen, which means the land route to the Wall is blocked off, and no one can head North. Jaqan needs another way to Castle Black. And, now he can't really explain why he'd join the watch, he needs to find Bloodraven without using the resources of the Watch. So, he heads to Oldtown and tries to enter the Citadel. He kills Pate, grabs a key to its archives, and steals his face. From there he has access to the secrets of the Citadel, and most importantly, its working Glass Candle, one of maybe two known glass candles in the entire world (the other being that of Urrithon Night Walker's in Qarth). Using the Glass Candle, he might be able to find Bloodraven, and from Oldtown, sail all the way to West or Eastwatch, get off and sneak past the Night's Watch, then he'd have to sneak past the Army of the Dead, enter Bloodraven's cave and kill him.
This is all, of course, absolutely fucking nuts, but it's also pretty fucking cool.
lol we really need a new book.
It is nuts. Nobody knew Bloodraven was still alive, and Jaquen doesn't try to head north from Harrenhal at all.
Wouldn’t everyone assume Bryden Rivers would be dead?
wow what a fantastic idea! Yes this makes complete sense. On so many levels, really great work here.
I always thought he was Arya’s dance teacher. Ned introduced Arya to him. He said something to Arya while in the cell to stand out to her. Which is why she saves them.
That is my head cannon.
Why would a faceless man ever utter the words, "And what do we say to death? Not today!", and have them as teachings for Arya when The Faceless men code is All men must die, All men must serve. Sure they can most likely see the point in delaying a promised death for other gains or their own deaths but to have that as kinde of a mantra/code does not ring true to me.
Can we all just appreciate for a moment, that there would be no game of thrones without littlefinger?
Literally all the staging in this series, is set up by this one man. Without him we would have nothing.
Without him, we would have a peaceful Westeros.
Bloodraven does pretty much, too.
Absolutely brilliant 🎉 always excellent content - you are appreciated!
What about Syrio Forel theory and that he was there and this was his way out, because also maybe Arya grew up to him and he protected the girl till she got out of city and Harrenhall.
It's possible that he was contracted to protect her all along as well, perhaps at Varys' bidding. I also think it's too coincidental that Syrio just up and disappears around the same time.
Excellent theory and highly plausible. It all makes perfect sense. one way or another Littlefinger needed Ned to disappear.
I don't like this theory for two reasons:
1. If Jaqen was there to kill Ned it wouldn't make sense for him to take the harder route rather than killing Ned in the black cells. That way he wouldn't expose nor even trap himself like he has. How would he have killed Ned from a cage? If the plan was to kill Ned at the wall then there are also much less risky options than being trapped in a cage for weeks.
2. Littlefinger hiring FM to kill Ned just doesn't seem likely. It would cost a huge amount to pay the price on his head. And in the end it wasn't even needed, so I guess he paid FM for nothing. Wouldn't it be easier for LF to whisper in Joffrey's ear and have influence on his decision making? That's my theory at least.
So why was Jaqen there? For Arya. He knew she was going to the wall with Yoren so he got himself cuffed.
How did he do it? It's something GRRM won't need to reveal or explain so it's left vague. Jaqen is smart, stealthy, shapeshifter and a skilled assassin, so that's enough to know he managed to do it somehow.
Interesting.
I guess the client wanted Ned to confess before he was killed, so therefore the kill couldn’t be made in the black cells, but that would suggest that LF wasn’t the one who hired Jaqen. LF wanted war between the Wolves and the Lions, and a confession from Ned and him taking the black would have de-escalated the war.
Killing Ned in the black cells would be an obvious assassination though, right? Raising questions about who would have motive, means and opportunity, which might have led to Littlefinger. IDG talks about the reason why Jaqen chose this path in the video, because it IS contrived and unlikely, and puts as much distance between the circumstances of the assassination and Littlefinger as possible.
As for your second point, he might have been doing that in the background. However, Joffrey is chaotic evil. A calculating person like Littlefinger would have known never to take for certain what Joffrey was going to do next. Joffrey is not a person motivated by reason, incentive, consequences or whatever else, not someone you can predict. Littlefinger would not have bet a major part of his plan on trusting Joffrey to do a specific thing.
She wasn't obsessed with killing at this point. How would they know of her? Who would've told the fm? It doesn't make sense. There's no hints/clues like grrm does.
I cant believe Ive never heard of this theory, I love it. Makes sense!
If Jaqen was there for Ned then Little finger paid for Aryas training 😁
I'm very glad to see you passionately putting out your work on the reg for everyone once again. Thank you for the entertaining video
Everyone knows why he was in Kings Landing; He was running away from seasons 7 and 8:
🥱
I love your take!👏👏👏
Something else to note is that once Jaqen is freed, he doesn't seem to continue up north to the wall. Meaning that for some reason his target was no longer alive.
That's some detective work there. You right.
I love this theory, it fits so well and further highlights Baelish's sheer cunning and intelligence, not to mention his limitless spite.
Seems more likely Ned hired him as the sword master so she could protect herself. When Ned died, he didn’t abandon the job he was hired to do so trained her to be an assassin so she could really protect herself.
These are my thoughts and the Red Woman was also involved.
I think he was in the dark cells to keep an eye and ear on Ned and hear news between Ned and the Spider.
My theory is he was sent there for Arya to entice her for training. He watched her and showed off his talent to entice her, plus gave her a free ticket pass to him so he could train her up to complete her destiny.
Could it have been syrio forels doing? I always felt he may be jaqen anyway and maybe he saw Arya as an excellent recruit for the faceless men
Excellent topic
One problem I maybe see with this theory: Doesn't Littlefinger already have access to the Black Cells while Ned is down there? Varys visits Ned, couldn't LF have hired a cheaper assassin and sent him down there through similar means? I feel that whoever hired Jaqen (if Ned was the target) would have NOT had possible inside access to the Black Cells.
A good point, but could be resolved by LF not wanting to seem involved in order to preserve what he had with Catlyn/Sansa, and not risking the Lannisters finding out he’d gone behind their backs to have Ned killed. He narrowly avoided consequences with Bran’s botched assassination, so I think he’d be overly cautious with Ned’s.
STOP THE BS. Why would LF want Ned dead before the confession? That would only create more problems. Also, why a cheaper assassin? What if they fail or get caught or Ned kills them? After the confession, if Ned is sent to the wall and a faceless man kills him, no one would bat an eye bc faceless men are smart and Ned would've been seen as a traitor anyway. Everything is perfect for LF then.
Maybe you missed the part where the video creator points out LF had one bad experience with a cheap assassin and decided he needed things done correctly this time.
This is a fascinating theory. And it does make a great deal of sense. LF is also very good at not only the long game, but also, in his own words, being unpredictable.
And we know from his handling of sir Dontos, he doesn’t leave loose ends.
A faceless man to assassinate a convicted, attained traitor, would be considerably less expensive than a contract to kill the Warden of The North, as well, I should think.
I want to once again raise the prospect of Syrio being Jaqen.
This is the most logical answer.
Way more so than hiring a Faceless Man as a backup plan.
imho the best explanation for the whole Jaqen plot => as Syrio he was hired into the highest circles (by Varys?) for some (measter related?) reason, arrested before he could fullfill his task, changed his Identity in the dungeons (Biter and Rorge saw him) , tried to rejoin higher circles with Tywin, failed, and went to Oldtown... I'm afraid we will never know...
The Faceless Men are said to intentionally influence the world (possibly having brought the Doom upon Valyria for instance), IMO they recruited Arya on purpose to train her and let her get away when she was a good enough assassin to fulfil whatever destiny they had planned for her. Jaqen was in the Black Cells to meet Arya
Tinfoil time! Jaqen was the one who told Joffery to execute Ned! He completed his mission!
Ooh yes very reasonable
More tinfoil... Jaqen WAS Joffery at Ned's execution. He can steal faces but also give them back.
Always assume Littlefinger has something to do with any shady situations. I mean, he is the one who introduced the idea of the Faceless Men in the small council meeting held as soon as Ned got to King’s Landing. Theoretically there were other non-Ned options that Jaqen could’ve been aiming for, the caravan would stop at multiple strongholds to clear out their local dungeons as it made its way north.
Great theory, I support it!
Another thing about Gendry: not only was he too obscure to be targetted (only Varys knew where he was going, and we know his survival suited Varys' plans), but also because of that obscurity, just hiring a regular assassin to gut him would have been easy. Unlike the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, to most people Gendry is a random kid, or at best a discarded bastard of a dead king. Killing him would never require the skills and subtlety a Faceless Man provides.
An interesting thought occured to me listening to this as well: since Littlefinger likely hired Jaqen, and he was the one who informed the others that using one to kill Dany was far out of their ability to purchase... would Dany have been THAT much more expensive than Ned Stark? I suspect he inflated the price tag of the hit job because having a distant Targaryen threat was something he could take advantage of. Like just look at the price example he gives: "to kill a merchant is twice that of hiring an army of sellswords." Really? Even for such a specialized assassin, that seems unbelievable.
You always ask if I have a better idea. I have never ever had one, not even once. I always sit spellbound listening in and then laugh when you ask.
My personal theory was that he was Arya's dancing instructor.
I buy this theory. Littlefinger moves behind the scenes malevolently. I was thinking maybe Circe, but this rings more true.
I actually like this theory a lot, however I think it gets possibly two things wrong:
-Littlefinger was already well on the way to killing/tricking Ned. He played him so well, I do not think Littlefinger would want to pay the means it would take to kill a HAND. That’s literally one step away from a King. The price would have been MONSTROUS.
-the timeline of the FM and particular Jaqen in the books.
We have one CONFIRMED assassination by the Faceless Men, and that is Balon Greyjoy.
It’s so painstakingly obvious that there is a connection, if not outright same identity of Jaqen and Syrio Forel. We really don’t know what exactly Euron paid the FM for, however it’s clear that they are playing a game more intricate than we think. Even if it was just to kill Balon and gather information (something the FM can do amazingly well), it’s very clear that they could come to Kings Landing because so many ways to travel, and you need a port city to travel north even more..lo and behold, Syrio takes work with a NORTHERN lord, one whose very ward is a son to Balon Greyjoy.
And even then, we see Jaqen change at Harrenhall, and even tells Arya that if she were to come with him, they would go across the Narrow Sea, however she refuses and then where do we see Jaqen next? OLDTOWN. Not only is he at Oldtown, we know that a ship specifically from Oldtown left from the Iron Islands, the same ship that told Robb about the news of Balon’s death.
Dude ill watch anythiong you make. Your voice is so soothing and hold my attention.
Great theory! It all comes together very well and it is an original theory as far as I know - that's hard to come by these days. love the channel and thank you for doing such a good job all this years!