I Built a Standard Car Chassis to Test Piston Engines Properly!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Today we're back in Scrap Mechanic with a new standard test chassis! I decided it is time to build a chassis that we can use to test various piston engines in a real life load environment! After we can then take these engines and test them on the dyno to compare stats!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About Scrap Mechanic:
store.steampowe...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#scrapmechanic #kangaming
What other things should we build in Scrap Mechanic?
A fast but strong piston engine tutorial for survival mode
Probably a piston engine with short stroke
The unit of speed is in blocks per second
And
1blk/s is 0.25m/s
1 block is 25x25x25
Piston engine tank
You should try making an axial engine, it's super cool but I've never seen it done in scrap mechanic
Regarding your steering:
1. Bearings connected to a lvl 5 seat have steering angle adjustments...
2. The length of the steering rod should be shorter than the distance between the pivot of the wheels, in you current setup the wheels are always parallel
Regarding RPM calculation:
deg/s -> rpm is not divide by 60, its divided by 6... But I now see you corrected yourself soooo... Anyways, I recommend taking an average RPM over time by computing the sum. You can do this by hooking the number into a counter on increase, then have some delay before counting the same number down again. Then divide by the amount of ticks between count up and count down.
Regarding speed calculations:
Well done, you are correct!
Regarding making engines spin in a consistent direction:
Ya i'm not explaning that here... It'd involve explaning basically my entire engine building process which you don't want (although I guess at this point thats the only way to really improve further if you don't wanna go full trial-and-error).
Regarding next engine to try:
KEIN ENGINE!!!
🤓🤓🤓🤓
Hmm KEIN ENGINE almost sound like KAN ENGINE even :D
then after that a piston turbine?
@@marmaliser8159You clicked on this video so you can’t even say anything.
But das Auto cannot fahren with kein engine!
I suggest that in the speed challenge you attach the engine transversaly to reduce torquing as the torquing would pitch the chassis instead of flipping it
exactly what i was thinking
I don't think this is a good idea. Yes it would reduce the bias he had towards going left, but it would introduce another major issue. Fact of the matter is that engines in SM tend to produce over 2x as much horsepower as the engine of a semi-truck IRL. The weight required to keep the vehicle from wheelying would be tremendous.
@@blueflame_smI don't think this is that big of an issue since the engine will be oriented in such way that it would torque the front down. Also you can just put a wheelie bar.
@@adamkosec6180 That would require the engine be mounted not on the axel but opposite of the axel. Yes it could work, but it'd probably cost him all tracktion on the rear tires. With the wheeliebar you'd run into an issue of still not being able to steer.
@@blueflame_sm I have a solution for that to I think that you are trying to say that it would tend to lift the front wheel I say that just make the wheel base longer and put a bit of concrete 3 on the front wheel this would tremendous increase the Torque required to lift the front wheels as the distance btw front and rear wheels would increase
That’s not quite Ackerman steering geometry, the bar behind the wheels is supposed to be shorter than the pivots, so a line through the two pivot points each side meets at the centre of the rear axle. That would be a massive pain to make, hope I explained it well enough lol. Cool video, can’t wait to see different engines tested in this chassis.
You can press "U" on a counter block to set the value, it's easier than using tick-buttons
It always bothered me the fact that kan doesn't use the ui, which is easier than buttons
Where was that tip when i needed it. Im so tired of using buttons.
Hi! I've noticed a thing about how you are using the counter block, you might have noticed but didn't give too much importance, now the counter block also has a gui you can use, press U to use and E to reset the counter, like that you won't need to bother using the Tick Button anymore, the button now is more useful in case you need to change values from seats.
Love your content, keep up the good stuff Kan!
usually rpm is measure off of crank rotation instead of wheel rotation, which you could attach a guage to the side of the engine that is not being used, you could use a through bearing setup to get the guage attached
I think you should at a 'kick thruster' so that if you have an engine that struggles to start you could give it a starting boost
In order for your inner wheel to turn more than your outer wheel to the correct ratio you need what is called Ackerman's principle. Put simply on your steering knuckle you have a steering arm (your straight pipe then elbow to the linkage.) All you need to do is angle your steering arms so that both point towards the center of your rear axle. This causes your steering arms to sweep differing arcs and the golden angle for all wheel bases/ widths is the center of the rear axle..... Although I suppose with a tandem rear axle set up it be center of the difference of the axles because it's the center of the rear rotation point but I digress.
To achieve this in scrap mechanic the only idea I have is attaching your steering arm to the knuckle with a bearing.
Hope this helps
Considering the steering-problem: there's 3 important measurements when adjusting the steering on an actual car:
1. camber angle (which should be irrelevant in Scrap Mechanic, as it is usually a fixed value unless you´re running a double wishbone suspension)
2. the wheel alignment (the angle that the wheels are pointing inwards when comparing against driving-direction, which SHOULD also be irrelevant in Scrap mechanic, but may be a factor)
3. the caster (the distance that the tyre travels after it's track point, aka the vertical of the swivel axis)
the latter one may make the difference here, maybe (or maybe not, depending on SM physics) increasing the potential to steer.
Adjusting these values without references (considering you´re building in scrap mechanic, and real-car values are completely useless here) will probably be a very tricky one, let alone re-building the system in SM. But it has a massively positive effect on the steering.
That´s because, if done right, it will make the steering basically adjust itself when turning, so that the inside wheel turns sharper than the outside wheel, reducing slip on the wheel.
Usually, the wheel alignment would also make a difference, since the car getting pushed forward will make the wheels "realign" themselves. So instead of a "triangle" shape with the top being in front of the car, they get straightened out by the forward force from the powered back wheels. However: with SM physics, i don´t think that´s necessary.
Considering you´re going step by step into more realistic builds, you may wanna take a look at these things.
You should add suspension to it as well. The rear would be best "formula style" there the entire rear assembly would have a single spring. It would help a lot with the terrain. Front could be any style
8:13 its kinda cool hearing you say that because ive also designed a few cars and steering mechanisms based off my rc cars
"Push-bar" =Ackermann steering geometry. There's a good math that goes with it. Trucks still use gearboxes with centerlink/ draglink steering. Rack and pinion don't really work all that well with high weight. If you put the rear axle gear on a couple pistons, you can move the central member back and forth to get you forward and reverse at the press of a button. Of course that V8 had forward and reverse based on the timing anyway.
When it comes to timing an engine for torque you can set the pistons to the slowest setting and adjust the wheel until there is zero jolts between pistons turning on and off. This makes it to where there is no dead space between strokes so it should not stall out as easy at low rpm.
For the steering to angle the wheels at the right angle, the bearing that steers the wheel and the bearing that attaches to the big rod should be aligned with the center of the rear axle.
You should add some transmission system, that could be sick
0:50 I once built an X-piece for my V8 Piston semitruck.
7:17
On my multi axle trucks and tanks I always figure out the specific angle per wheel per direction and set them in the level 5 seats steering bearing.
It's just a few minutes work but the driving get a hell of a lot smoother
you can click U on the counter block to manually type in the desired value, so that you dont have to fiddle around with tick buttons and colors :D
8:09 there are many more systems, some use a offset hole on the steering shaft connected to a arm then to the steering knuckle, others are similar but have recirculating balls to aid in steering.
You can do it so many ways.
if you added another point of articulation to the engine mount and a second set of pistons, you could ensure that the mount always remains level. It would be a mechanism similar to a so-called "four bar arm", which is common in robotics to keep things level on a mechanical scale
Build train chassis for testing. No issues with "steering" or navigating tight spaces. You are always on the "road" and can add/remove carts for additional load.
You can test engines by running "laps". It would give you a more accurate reading about speed.
It might be worth adding a piston or two to the rear axle, so you can switch the direction without having to break it.
Great to see these engines powering something. Makes me want to do a piston engine only survival challange.
You can interact with number blocks now to set the number. You don’t need to use tick buttons
Can’t get enough of your piston engine content.
I love building standards and unique systems in scrap mechanic.
You need to redesign that rear axle to have pistons that shift the forward/reverse gears in/out of mesh so you can toggle the direction without editing the axle each time.
The link that ties the steering mechanism to the wheels is properly called a "tie rod". Rack and pinion and steering gear box/pitman arm type both have tie rods. For optimum performance look up Ackerman steering for a good description. I'm not sure if you can implement it in game but if you can it should improve steering performance.
I'm just imagining a Kan hosting a multiplayer event where people bring in their own engines and pit them against each other. Tractor pulls, drag races, circuit races, etc. It might suck a bit with Multiplayer being as buggy as it is but it still seems like it'd be a cool time.
I think that for weaker engines it would be convenient to add a clutch with a flywheel to this chassis. Clutch could be piston operated and it would engage with the 'forward' button pressed. And crankshaft would be connected directly to the flywheel. And engine itself could be turned on and off with separate switch
you could measure sliping by comparing front and back rpms. you could have a light taht turns on when the wheel slips and that would tell you if you needed more weight
I hope in the future devs add either different types of wheels or tech wheels where you can adjust friction values
You should add a simple transmission with reverse, neutral, and forward, so you can let the engine warm up and don't have to change the settings of the engine to reverse or change direction when you don't know which direction it goes.
Your pushbar steering doesn't turn the inside wheel more than the outside wheel. For that you need to have the steering arms pointing at the rear differential. Instead you can use regular bearing steering and set the angles to be greater when the wheel is the inside wheel. You can calculate the angle to have a more accurate setting, but after all, the difference is minuscule
Just a thought, In real life engines have bushings to help with vibrations; Im not sure how that translates to scrap mechanic, but piston engines tend to be kinda violent with their vibrations. Setting up some stiff suspension pieces that could attach to the engine might help alleviate this without losing torque, similarly to what the elevation pistons at the back are doing.
At the same time though, I may be over thinking it considering how heavy this vehicle is; For large engines, and engines in the future that will have more rpm though, it might do something beneficial.
1 Block in SM is 25cm; Both engines went about 50 blocks per second, which is about 27MPH (45KPH)
There's a easier way to do Ackerman steering, with a level 5 seat if you go to each wheel's steering bearing you can set up the angle it goes to at each side, just put more angle on the left wheel while turning left and more angle on the right while turning right, that way you avoid making a whole rack and pinion and/or lever system
I would like to see a scrap mechanic attempt at the Ducatti engine, with 4 pistons married to a single crank via pivoting levers
@7:09 you say that you need a push bar to have different steering angles. You could also just adjust the turning angle on each steering bearing though. It has adjustability for right and left turning
True I forgot scrap mechanic has settings for steering angles on individual bearings...
please make more of these videos i learn so much from them thank you sooo much
For the negative RPM annoyance, wouldn't it have been easier to get an absolute value before displaying the result? That way, RPM would always be positive while allowing rotation in either direction.
Would love to see a comparison of this style vs a transversely mounted engine connected directly to the drive shaft. Curious what affect the pipe gear has or doesn't have on the system.
That engine is so SMOOTH.
You need to turn the V8 into I guess it could be called an X16 and put it on the chassis with a differential and little transmission that would be so awesome to see in action.
You should do test with the dyno to see if there is drivetrain loss and if there is how bad it is like test the hp and torque of an engine then connect it to a Transmission and diff and test the power from the axle
Do you know that you have 3 hotbars? You can switch between them with ALT+1, ALT+2, ... or F1, F2, ...
I put tools on 3, blocks on 1, and functional stuff on 2
maybe make a version with some sort of suspension (either normal or double wishbone or any else) to see how much does it affect the performance
It could end up going either way! the suspension will probably absorb some torque, but it will also keep the wheels in contact with the ground better so you have more grip (and therefore can use more torque, because wheels slip less).
You made a piston powerd car before and I remeber that you had pistons in the back push/pulling the gears so that you could switch between forward and backward. Could that help to make the car better and not needing to rebuild the gears every time.
Id recommend making a better transfer of energy either rotate your engines 90° or use a gearless system
Might be better to use a rotating arm with the controller instead of the pistons when elevating the engine. Also, the counter blocks have UIs now so that you can just type in the number that you want.
Kan you could do what I suggested in one of your videos to see if that'll work and if it doesn't work then try building the piston engine in reverse and then have the pistons going forward
It might be smarter to measure the rotation on the front wheels instead for the most accurate reading. Your driven wheels might slip especially with a bounce which can happen a lot. The front wheels can bounce too but they aren't driven so nothing is forcing those to rotate faster if they do come off the ground. IMO this would be the better option, to measure on the front wheels
Lol nvm I spoke too soon
Add two more pistons to the engine, add a shaft to the front axle for AWD, bigger tires, and you have a Subaru lol
you can press u on a counter to open its gui to set an exact value
I honestly don't know if the modpack has an absolute function, if they don't it might be worth squaring and then taking the square root of the rpm input so that it'll always be positive even when the car is moving backward.
kAN, don't use the smart button, now you can directly add the value in the number blocks just by pressing the tinker button (normally [u]) on the number block, it'll open a entire interface that is way more convinient to use
What do you think about creating an engine for a 4v4 chassis, then it would be good to test scrap vehicles with front and rear rotation that are made for this terrain full of ravines, holes and jumps.
Open the ui in number block it lets you directly set value
you could put a single wheel infront or behind the car and measure rpm from it instead of the powered or the steering wheels
now you can test community build piston engines to test them against each other, making a competition for best engine
also make suspension for the straight axle. and if its possible try independant.
Instead of the pistons changing the degree at which the engine is mounted. Could it be beneficial to add a universal joint instead. Reducing that bouncing while keeping the variable height.
21:13 Instead of deleting and rebuilding these, could you possibly do glitch welding such that the gear is mounted on a piston overlapped with the rear shaft, which by default is too far to engage, and then you could just control which gear engages with a button that toggles between the two pistons?
With those pass through shafts you can replicate entire crankshaft build from a real car (to look like from a real engine). For example, you have pass thru, then counterweight, then pass thru, another counterweight, then middle pass thru, counterweight, pass thru, counterweight etc... I'm curious if the engine contraption will lose some torque if built that way.
For one piston you will have to build like this: pass thru (middle shaft), counterweight/pass thru (piston connection)/counterweight, pass thru (middle shaft).
Counterweights and middle shafts should be single piece, probably you will have to use bearings to be able to offset the angles for another piston positions etc...
I think you should make trailer’s that have different weight for testing pulling power
you should use pipe bracers instead of big wheels for more ground clearance
could you use medium piping and 2x2 sets of pistons to make a perfect double scale v8 or inline 4. then if that would be possible maybe even a larger one with the large piping lol.
Well now you've got a chassis, you just need to upgrade it with a differential, a transmission, proper suspension, etc! ;)
this video is so amazing.
I wish scrap mechanic had squishy tires
I think it would be fun to how much better it is to turn using a differential
You should try the mechanical parts mod it has better gears, and it has compact pass threw bearings.
man you need to put a suspension on that so it rides smoother lol.
good vid. I think u need more weight in the front.
What you're trying to do with the steering is Ackermann steering .The length of the tie rod should be equal to the distance between the legs of a triangle that extends from the centerpoint of the rear axle to the steering kingpins. For the triangle ABC where A is the centerpoint of the rear axle, B is the left kingpin, and C is the right kingpin, B' and C' are points on AB and AC which are the left and right steer rod, respectively. B - B' = C - C' and the length B'C' is how long the steerbar should be. For example in cartesean coordinate space, if A is at 0,2 B is at -1,0 and C is at 1,0, if B' is at -0.5,1 and C' is at 0.5,1 then B'C' is 1, and this will give a pretty good approximation of the Ackermann steering geometry.
Can you put it on the workshop? Would be great to have but those modded number blocks confuse me too much to make one myself.
Could I have final build of this for my testings?
straight pipes are horrible for using them as gears teeth, use corner pipes instead. I've already tested out that they can handle higher torque
with The modpack you can just press U on the counters and type a number in
Insert cash or select payment type
I wonder if holding the engines up by bearings powered directly by a controller would be stronger than holding them with two pistons.
if you test anything bigger you need a new frame with custom suspension and more complex steering
hey kAN, did you know you can press U on the number block and type in the value you want instead of using painted buttons?
You know you can set the counter blocks value by clicking U you don’t have to press a bunch of buttons to get the right value
Can you make your engines available on the workshop, I think I can fix the timing issue and if not learn how to
next item for the arsenal would be a weighing scale not sure how it could work without it being laggy though
KAN YOU CAN PRESS U ON THE COUNTERS TO SEE WHAT NUMBER THEY ARE AND TYPE THEIR VALUE INSTEAD OF USING TICK BUTTONS
Insert engine or select engine type
Nice
You should re do that flying pirate ship and actually make it piston powered
You should try and make a v12 and try it on the chasis
Can scrap mechanic do toe-in and camber for better steering?
Hey, have you considered doing a tractor pull style sled that increases resistance as distance is crossed?
Nice idea for Multiplayer Mondays.
In real life, downward facing thrusters would not change the performance of the engine. I'd assume it also doesn't in SM
7:48 No, you did not. You are using parallel bars and 90 deg pivots, which make them both steer exactly the same. You should already know that you can adjust the steering angles on the steering bearings already and with that you can adjust both inward and outward turning independently, making one larger than the other.
My brain is not smart enough for this game, but it’s a good watch.
You know that counter block now has the gui, right?
Sir can we introduce you to the wonderful world of U-Joints?
You should test this in multiplayer Monday