Sonic CD Retrospective
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- I attempt to figure out my very complicated thoughts regarding Sonic CD! You get to watch the trash fire.
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Sources:
Sonic 06: • Sonic The Hedgehog (20...
Mario cut-scenes: • Super Mario ALL INTROS...
The rest of the footage was gathered by me.
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Sonic CD. Analysis. Retrospective. KingK. PC. Review. Critique.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi:
-I wasn't trying to say there was only one past checkpoint, I was trying to say you only get one shot with them and then they become unusable. There are more than one in each zone.
-APPARENTLY there's a restart button in the mobile version of the port, which really annoys me.
-I didn't know the pistons didn't crush you, which actually makes me somewhat re-evaluate my philosophical stance on life and the universe. Seriously though WHY would you suddenly make pistons safe after two games where they aren't? I'm gonna die young from stress I swear to god...
its okay man CD is just an inconsistent mess that we all love
I had trouble focusing: "Sonic's disposition?" Are you implying he's gay? That explain so much why he's more comfortable with tails chasing him than Amy... I mean by now it's obvious they are in couple, they even bicker occasionally while deeply caring for each other. DEEPEST LORE!
In regards to the pistons - they animate and move differently too than other drums in other levels and there are 3 of them in the level. the first two stand out and its very clear there is something underneath. The problem with the design is that you could pass these pistons without even knowing its a mechanic but it doesn't force you to use them (This is a problem that metallic madness does and its a total pacebreaker). understanding how they work also optimises your wacky workbench run you get an easy travel sign to the past and a easy route to the generator and the hologram.
Honestly Sonic CD is just way better than sonic 2. It's lows are far worse than CD's - hill top and sand ocean is boring, metropolis is fustrating, mystic cave's spikes and crushers, sky chase is a pacebreaking autoscroller,. It's got tons of bad design decisions and unfortunate difficulty spikes that make it frustrating to return back to. at least with levels like collision chaos, metallic madness, wacky workbench there are shortcuts and easy routes to find and it encourages replayability and experimentation. Its also a breezy game to play on the go on mobile I have a 30 minute commute on the train and I play it when my 3ds is unavailable.
You complain that Tidal Tempest requires you to go in the water, but Hydrocity does the same thing.
Oh I kinda wish I saw this before making a bunch of comments on these points.
14:00 So I played sonic cd first time recently. That piston robot generator was actually something I logically figured out. I found it itself but followed the pipes upward in hopes of figuring out a path inside through the tubes and then put 2 and 2 together to risk the piston seeing as it directly connected. Really proud moment tbh and very possible without a guide.
That's awesome! And cool seeing you here, I really like your EVA videos!
Same
The music is pure sex, yes, even the American soundtrack
O.... K?
Huhuehue
Hitting a robot from behind.
thats the oddest way to say 'the music is good' ive ever seen
This gives me some Scott the Woz flashbacks
The notion of Sonic having no interest in romance (unlike Mario) is an interesting point. I seriously thank you for considering these important matters in your analysis.
*Sonic 06 disliked this comment*
That's how I prefer him just fits his character imo
Sonic has a boy’s heart bUT IF HE DIDN’T-
ACE SONIC
I don't mind Amy crushing on him but I like his disinterest in romance, he just wants to go fast and smash Eggman robots lol.
Technically, the super peel out is faster than the spin dash, it makes braking and a little easier, and you could just roll into a ball after one, so I'd take the peel out.
Also if you have a horizontal gap, with the super peel out Sonic may clear the gap but with the spin dash he'll drop down it.
Personally I think the sonic spindash is an straight upgrade because you don’t have to smash that button and be frame perfect to get to the max speed
@ I don’t know, if you talk about that spindash where you don’t care about smashing the button and being frame perfect, someone should compare both.
@@user-nf2es5xv5w you seem to have gotten the peelout and the spindash confused. If you mess up the spindash in CD it flat out won’t work, you get the peelout wrong and you’ll just go at the spindash’s max speed.
Sonic CD is a game I've always liked, but I never realized how much I liked it until recently. I love the freeform nature of the level design, allowing you to play around and experiment for no real reason other than the fun of it. I like the choice between scrutinizing every nook and cranny or just running straight to the end. I love finding new ways to time travel, and the dilemma of whether to explore for an easy way to time travel or doing it ASAP and risking losing your chance. You mentioned the great presentation, but I think you understated just how incredible it is. CD is more visually, auditorily and thematically coherent and creative than any Sonic game ever made, and not only is every element beautifully crafted on its own, but they come together to create something absolutely beautiful. CD isn't a game I've played as much as other Sonic games, but whenever I do pick it up I always have a blast. With that said, FUCK Metallic Madness. Thank god for Mania redeeming that shit level.
I agree with you on nearly everything, but Metallic Madness was a blast. Finding the generators might've been a little dificult in act 1, but I enjoyed it fully nonetheless!
Funny wil e coyote should be commenting on a sonic video
Great work, as always! Despite coming out a year later, I've always thought of this as more of an "alternate sequel" to Sonic 1 than a follow-up on Sonic 2, due to its development. Yuji Naka teamed up with STI to make Sonic 2, while Naoto Oshima stayed in Japan to helm Sonic CD.
Let's see... on this episode, you're going to get hordes of comments "correcting" you regarding the Super Peel-Out, and how it was differentiated better in the Sega CD version. But of all the mobile ports, I think Sonic CD definitely benefits most from it. The Sega CD version was the only old-school Sonic game that really could chug framerate-wise (since they were building on Naka's engine, but without the man himself), and the wonky level design means that reaction time to avoid cheap enemy placements comes into play a lot more.
One reason the soundtrack options are so limiting is probably because of how last-minute the whole thing was. The US soundtrack was only confirmed to be in the port at ALL a few weeks ahead of release, if memory serves.
I love your videos! especially the dkc ones
Somebody got early access to this video :D (your comment timestamp is a bunch of hours older than the video)
Yes I was about to say it is pretty clear Sonic CD is following after Sonic 1 not Sonic 2.
Wow, I just heard Vinesauce talk about you earlier this day.
Hey Josh Loved Your Retro Season! When are you Gonna Do more?
I think you're underselling Sonic 1 and 2's stories. There's tons of underlying, more implicit great storytelling and theming going on than you give it credit for.
Ruby of Blue Theming? Yeah.
Story? Hah.
No, really. It's more implicit and underlying but it is there. The basics of plot structure, but also deeper themes is present. And themes are a big part of a story. The groundwork comes from the manual's backstories, then the games themselves subtly expand on it.
In Sonic 1, Sonic is of course established as a hero representing fundamental freedom and environmentalism, while Eggman represents the opposite; oppression and pollution. But there's also another theme of the danger of greed. Throughout the game, Sonic navigates ancient, abandoned areas. When you read up on the Chaos Emeralds in the manual, you're able to put two and two together and conclude the ancient civilization misused the Chaos Emeralds and destroyed themselves, and Eggman is repeating history. The plot itself is very basic, but does have a present rising of tension. At the end of Labyrinth Zone, Sonic chases Eggman out of the trap-filled watery depths, and in Scrap Brain Act 3, Eggman scores a blow to Sonic before he has a chance to fight him, sending him down into more watery labyrinths, acting as an insult to Sonic, and to the player, since they're now forced to navigate the dreaded water sections because of Eggman. This puts Sonic and the player closer together in how they feel. And as a result, the final boss and defeating Eggman is all the more satisfying. At the end, Sonic uses the Emeralds to restore life, rather than use them for his own gain, ending on a message of using the power you have to help others.
Sonic 2 presents the same themes, with another civilization that misused the Emeralds, but with a more detailed plot. Sonic allows Tails to join the fight, even if it may be dangerous. When we arrive at Chemical Plant and Oil Ocean it's established that pollution can still happen even if your motives are pure, as the facilities were not built by Eggman. So it makes the whole theme a lot less black and white. When they get to Casino Night Zone, Sonic and Tails' names start appearing on signs, showing they're having a real impact on the Island with their heroic deeds. This especially serves to boost Tails' confidence since up till now he was a frail kid who was picked on, and this is a key part of his development in this game. When all seven Emeralds are collected, Sonic's wish upon the Emeralds is to become more powerful, to become a badass Super Saiyan. This is something of a dramatic irony or juxtaposition because Sonic is using the Emeralds to extend his own power, unlike how he used them in Sonic 1. What Sonic wishes for further solidifies his character in that he wishes for more power to do good, and also his fun-loving attitude in that he wishes to be badass like the Super Saiyans from Dragon Ball. This is the beginning of an arc he goes through in Sonic 3&K with a theme about power-drunkenness, but that's for another time. By Sky Chase, Sonic and Tails' bond have grown such that Sonic now trusts Tails to pilot his plane, showing off his amazing intelligence and mechanical skills. The music in this sections serves to present a 'calm before the storm' vibe. But the tension is then ramped up and drama is thrown into the mix as the Tornado is shot down and Sonic is forced to jump onto Wing Fortress. At this point, Tails could very well be dead. For both Sonic and the player, this gives them another reason to beat Eggman, to avenge Tails. At the end of Wing Fortress, Tails returns in an epic fashion, showing that not only had he survived, but managed to augment the Tornado with rocket boosters. This moment is pivotal because it shows he survived while also showing what he's truly capable of. Tails gets Sonic up to Eggman's escaping rocket and Sonic jumps on without Tails, showing that he doesn't want to endanger him like before again, so he's going alone. This is subtly powerful since the decision to let Tails join the fight might have been irresponsible, so it shows Sonic has learned from this. The fact that there are no rings during the Silver Sonic or Death Egg Robot boss fights adds to the drama. Up till now, Sonic has been using his Super form to make a joke out of Eggman. But now not only does he not have access to his Super form, but Tails isn't there to help either. So it makes Sonic all the more badass when he STILL manages to win, and escape the Death Egg. And because of how hard those fights were, it doesn't come off as Sonic being a mary sue, since you AND Sonic had to use your mind and work hard for those victories; again, bringing Sonic and the player closer together. It ends with Tails making sure Sonic is okay as he comes back down, again reaffirming their friendship. The ending cutscene really highlights how decisive Tails have become since the journey started.
So yes, Sonic 1 and 2 do have great stories, it's just more implicit, underlying, and not spelled out for you. If you think I'm reading too much into the games, whatever. As they say, the death of the author is the birth of the reader. It's up to the reader to deride what a work means to them. And this is what I got out of Sonic 1 and 2.
Let me quote a different RUclipsr for a moment here.
If you rely on an external media to tell your story, that's bad storytelling.
(Might not be the exact quote.)
And that totally applies here. If it wasn't for the manual, no-one but the devs would even know the islands' names. In-game, there is literally no story provided. Yeah, you destroy lots of robots, and that fat guy seems important, and there are Chaos Emeralds... and that's it.
Not exactly revolutionary, I'd say.
@@RubyofBlue It might sound mean initially but I actually mean this in a genuinely nice way, I've never seen anyone go so in depth with what looks on the surface level a very barebones story. Wether what you describe is truly the intended story or not I don't care, I find your take on it interesting and cool to read regardless. Very nice stuff here man.
@@RubyofBlue this post was legitimately more interesting and entertaining to read than any of the opinions in this entire video were to hear. if you write a blog i'd read it.
Sonic CD is my favorite classic game tbh. I enjoy games with a slower pace
Boy it’s my favorite because of the time travel concept and the ost
Sonic cd is my favorite game it’s different like smb2 is. Sonic cd isn’t really a game that I would consider as different as smb2. Sonic cd exploration is my favorite part of it, the special stages are great like all classic sonic games and mania there’s a special stage that’s harder than the final special stage.
This is my favourite too.
BlazingTRS yep
Carlos Lee it’s still about exploration
oh boy oh boy! i was waiting for the sonic 3&K one, im excited ^^
This is probably the Sonic game I played through the most. I love the animations, soundtrack (the fact that there are 2 of them is a bonus), different variations of the levels due to the time travel, 2 options to get the good ending, good use of speed and exploration, good length and it even has a hint of strategy finding the best places to time travel. Too bad a lot of fans think it's overrated.
+Spiriten XIII I love it despite its messy level design
It's ok man, the Sonic fanbase is wrong about almost everything.
It's actually overrated
It's my favorite Sonic game! Well it was, until Mania came along...
I consider sonic 2 overrated
You might call me crazy but. Sonic CD is actually my favorite in the series.
Edit: this is what happens when you forget to do basic stuff like grammar
Game & Kris what ?
??????????
What series???
Dead Meme 94 The Sonic series you Knucklehead!
It's my favorite Sonic game in general.
Good video, but I feel I should point out most of the pistons in Wacky Workbench do NOT crush you. They mostly drop you down to a lower level like the one that takes you to the robot generator. It's consistent.
Icy Wind Yeah he was wrong about that, it's still a stupid mechanic though because there's no indication it won't kill you so why would you try it? Maybe they could have started the level with you having to use one to demonstrate the mechanic.
I I know you, you're from GameFAQs!
duckwantbreads they have something under them like rings so it's easy to tell you have to do something with them
Wait, they don't? Lol I just assumed they did.
That piston has something that makes it different: it’s the one that is in the upper place and it’s alone
You say the Taxman port is the definitive edition, but also criticize some elements of the game that are ironically not an issue in the original.
First off, one of the easy bosses you mentioned as only being basic jumping from platform to platform is very different in the original. Sonic inherits more momentum from the upward velocity of the platforms, which makes the jumps more floaty. Though you criticize the bosses as being too easy, I think they test a much broader skillset than the Sonic 2 bosses by each having a unique gimmick that tests a different quirk of Sonic's physics, generally related momentum.
The taxman port's gameplay actually differs quite a lot from the original, especially in regards to momentum. Certain speed tricks like leaping over the first platform and badnik in Metallic Madness Zone 1 by peeling out and jumping off the ramp are no longer possible, because Sonic just overall seems to build up and maintain less momentum in the air. This affects the moment to moment gameplay a ton. Although you do mention the most egregious flaw in the whole port; the Japanese cutscenes lose their bumpin' lyrics.
I think you do sum up your view of the game really well with the peel-out, because it is exactly as you describe in the video... in the taxman port. In the original, the spindash functioned differently and had a notorious delay to it that made the decision between using it or the peel-out much more interesting. So while the bugfixes and general polish are really nice aspects to the port, I think it goes to show that you might not want to discount the original versions of these games out-of-hand.
The only other issue I felt you failed to address is when you say that there is no real incentive to go fast, but didn't mention the time attack mode where you can unlock bonuses by scoring certain times. Otherwise, great analysis. You're consistently one of the best video essayists out there imo, and I love this retrospective a lot so far.
Do you know of a better port? I would like to play it, but don't have a Sega CD.
Sprocket Sunflower Just get the Taxman port on steam, the problems he mentions are trivial compared to the massive improvements to Sonic's overhaul feel in the taxman port
The exploration in this game is actually the most rewarding out of any Sonic game for me. Give me good futures, aka alternate designs of zones with often very beautiful music (metallic madness good future especially) over super sonic any day. I love how it feels to get to act 3 of a level and it not being the bad future hellscape it usually is. It really feels like you're saving the planet one zone at a time.
I've always felt similar about CD. I never played it until Gems Collection came out, did one playthrough, and never touched it again until the 2011 port. Did half a playthrough, and put it down. Honestly, it wasn't until just recently that I did another playthough and actually found fun in the game. I had to set aside my notions of what I want a Sonic game to be like, and enjoy exploring. Playing it through the way I play 2 or 3 made me feel dissatisfied, but taking my time to find the generators, holograms, and time stones made it a lot more fun. It's not my kind of Sonic game, but I can appreciate it a lot more now. And the animations are way too dope.
Highly looking forward to your Sonic 3 video. That one is by and far my favorite Sonic game, with Adventure 2 being me second favorite. Can't wait for it man. Good luck!
OH BOY MY LIFE IS COMPLETE
You talk sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo mmmmmuuuuuuuuuccccccchhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The Japanese opening is the be-" boiiiiiii those are some fighting words.
He's right tho
When I first played CD I was kinda shocked, because of how underwhelming it felt compared to the other 3 games. Especially considering how much praise the game got years ago. The level design felt like a clusterfuck, the music (USA) sounded meh and the collision detection ruined the game for me. It was disappointing and I felt the game was super overhyped.
But when I played that Taxman port of the game, I had a newfound appreciation for the game with how much better it performed under Whitehead's engine. I began to enjoy the more heavy exploration aspects of the game, the collision problems were fixed, I got exposure to the _godly_ Japanese OST and I enjoyed how the game is just oozing with style. (Those Toei cutscenes are the greatest thing created by man and aesthetics are top notch fam).
I'm glad I was able to have a better experience with this game, because I would have completely overlooked it's qualities and strengths without the port. It's definitely up there in my Top 5 Sonic Games.
EWOODJ Honestly, same
99,9 % owner of the game has never gone to Good Future Stardust Speedway.
EWOODJ Maybe awesome jp ost?
People said that because it wasn't widely available
14:47 In my second play through of sonic cd in an attempt to get the good ending, I actually did have one instance where traveling to the bad future, intentionally, actually helped me out. In one of the tidel tempest levels, i had gotten to a point in the present where I had passed all the past signs and couldn't go back anymore. After spending over ten minutes minutes trying to figure out how to get back in the present and giving up, I went to the bad future and and the level layout changed enough for me to get back to where I needed to be and travel to the past twice. I already knew where the generator was long before enduring all that crap though
"an enhanced port of sonic 2"
No, just no.
Sonic CD was supposed to be sonic 2 in the first place.
Sonic2 and CD had two different developers at the same time.
One took an interesting route to add a flying fox, super sonic as an actual thing, and have it be on the Genesis.
While the other attempted to stay as close to its roots as possible, as it's the team that was supposed to make sonic 2 but split in half.
This team however added in a peelout move for sonic, gave him the spindash, added a new damsel in distress hedgehog instead of his old sexy blonde girlfriend he had in the instructions booklet for sonic 1, and also gave him a rival which to be honest, was the high point of CD.
Racing against a robotic clone that's extremely identical yet complex to the point where it seems the clone is stronger better and faster, which makes for an awesome boss fight, yet is fucking awesome-r to actually compete against in the game. (even if it IS just a race)
Edit: forgot to mention that the peelout IS FASTER than the spindash, there's a reason it exists rather than to just give sonic another move to make him look cool.
sam buckaroo yeah the super peel out and the super spin out, are faster and more easy to use because you don’t need to squash a button like the spin dash.
Yes, just yes.
Sonic CD originally started out to be an enhanced port of Sonic 2 for the SEGA CD with CD-quality music, extra levels, etc. The problem is that STI and SOJ didn't communicate very well so Sonic CD took an entirely different path and eventually became its own game. Where Sonic 2 was rebuilt, Sonic CD was basically built off of Sonic 1. The coding for Sonic 2 wasn't shared and that's why Sonic CD's spin dash feels like a prototype and the peel out was the better of the two. It's also the reason why the sprites for Sonic are pretty much the same as well. This game is a prime example of what happens when all of SEGA doesn't communicate or share ideas.
I just use the peelout and then roll if I want to spindash.
Ethan ##*#*##* I do the same but in sonic mania
@@Sydney_Angelyt Agreed
13:00 They are there to aid in time travel. There is a Past marker near the top right, IIRC, and to the left of it near by is the Roboticizer to destroy to make the Good Future.
I always thought Metal Sonic was Sonic from the future where Robotnik wins. The whole game is about time travel, and if you fail to change the past in each level or collect all the time stones, Robotnik uses their power to reset everything. Further evidenced in the Japanese soundtrack for Metallic Madness Bad Future. "You can't do anything, so don't even try." "Don't do what Sonic does." "Sonic, dead or alive, is mine." This horrified me as a child.
If there's one thing I could change about CD, it would be to remove the present. Start in the bad future, travel directly to the past, destroy the robot generator, hop into the future to see it get better.
As the game is, there's just too much effort required to see everything. Start in the present, go to the bad future to see what it looks like and hear the music, then back to the present, then to the past, find the robot generator, return to the present again and finally forward to the good future. Five leaps in each stage to explore everywhere. In practice, nobody is going to actually do that, there is no incentive to travel to the future, good or bad. It ends up being purely an act 3 thing. This is if you even care about getting the "good ending" because it changes pretty much nothing.
Starting in the bad future instead would let you see exactly what it is you're trying to avert. Simply seeing the robotic dystopia at the beginning of every act would be incentive to go back and set things right. Making it a single step to get to the past from there, with no future signs in the way, is not unreasonable and getting back to the future is equally easy, so it would feel more like you've accomplished something without needing to directly reward you.
A lot of those "random" pathways are ideal for the time traveling mechanics. They're paths that make it easy for maintaining top-speed.
A KingK video on Friday the 13th? I find that more of a positive thing rather than a bad thing. Time to dig in.
I always thought the Peach letter promising cake was sent by Bowser. He already captured her, right?
Liam the letter was sent before.. It was a scheduled event. She will bake a cake
Bowser wanted to kiss Mario's nose all along
Doesn't bowser tell mario to leave when he enters the castle tho? Doubt bowser would want to kill mario if he wasn't trying to rescue peach
How the heck it happens so quick then? Mario didnt last too long to reach there so how??
After S3&K and Mania, this is my favorite 2D Classic Sonic game. I love it
Yeaaah, you pretty much called out my main issue with CD. The level design starts bumping you about and is too tall to play into it's supplementary time travel gimmick where you need to maintain constant speed. Hunting for those nooks and crannies built for time travel is fine, but then it feels like they KNEW the game's at odds with itself and had to throw you a bone. Not to mention finding said speed-spaces could be tough. Irritating but not wholly offensive.
Soundtrack is fire though.
I'd love to see Adventure-style remake of Sonic CD. The level structure, artistic design of the setting, environments and different timelines have a lot of unfulfilled potential. It would be a great chance to introduce more open levels and making speed (or rather gaining speed) a focused game-mechanic for exploration in a 3D-Sonic-game.
Sonic Mania is bassically Sonic CD with good level design.
Micah Buzan spoilers
yes
Mania has the verticality of CD with the spacious design of 3K, with hints of Sonic 2-esc speedier moments. It's the perfect 2D Sonic in terms of just level design imo.
Bullshit CD has great level design. Truly sad people cant see the genius of the game despite some major flaws in its concept and design.
I actually was disappointed with the Stardust Speedway in mania (including the boss). Generally mania has the best versions of a level they revisit, but here I found one of my favorite Sonic CD levels became one of my least favorite Mania zones. (The sky chase recap being the worst, though, especially because I feel cheated out of more of the excellent mirage saloon)
+TheSuperSaiyanNamekianGod
I disagree. If anything, it's the other way around. The level design does not work well with Sonic CD's concept and design. Example? Huge bottomless pit in the GOOD future of Metallic Madness.
The time-travel gimmick made it the Sonic game with the best replay-value, by far.
True. And you also have the option to get the time stones if you don't care about exploring
Yeah, and I (Unpopular opinion) like a lot better how you enter in the Special stages in Sonic 1/CD compared to Sonic 2
I absolute love the Japanese soundtrack, was so taken aback when I first played the game
I agree with your methodology for playing Sonic CD. It's just really damn relaxing and fun. It's my favourite for all the reasons you listed: the music, the environments and the general style. I don't like video games that place a whole lot of challenge. Sonic CD strikes an excellent balance. I adore it despite it being extremely flawed (but flawed in what I see as fixable ways).
if you liked the music that much, look up the genre of music "new jack swing", it was around in the early 90's and was a big inspiration for the music of this game
You say "almost" psychedelic in regards to the art style...my friend, it is STRAIGHT UP psychedelic. This is perhaps Sonic at his most colorful and cybernetic. Very trippy in a very real sense.
I've said this a few times before, but my biggest problem with Sonic CD is that there is literally no reason to go to the future, ever, except for the third acts where you're either in the good or bad futures. All you need to do is go to the past, destroy the one generator, get the time stone. No reason to do anything else, because as you pointed out, the levels are kind of meandering. It perhaps speaks to Sonic's core gameplay here being simplistic - there's no reward for exploration of these messy and expansive levels except for... uhh... getting more rings?
You know the super peel-out is faster than the spindash, right?
Sonic's pre-release design actually had him dating a human woman named Madonna before that idea was scrapped, so that's an interesting contrast to how he views Amy in the end.
Ive never played sonic cd but the soundtrack alone makes it worthy of existence
What a birthday gift,nice vid man
happy birthday yo
KingK Yo, my birthday was on the tenth, so I'll just consider it a late birthday gift xD
I sugest you to play The Sonic 3 Complete hack is problaby The absolutely best version of The game
this
Plus you can officially play it on the steam version
1:45, oh wow, you're actuallly the first reviewer I've seen actually say they prefer the Japanese opening and that the removal of the vocals was detrimental.
Super Peel-Out is faster than Super Spin Dash Attack.
Sonic CD is my favorite Sonic game. Its just so weird and interesting.
I unironically like Sonic CD over Sonic 2 but just by a very small margin, actually, I would probably say I like them equally, though I do prefer the quirky-ness of CD(plus that tasty JPN ost) but I really like the emphasis on exploration, that seems to be somewhat of a precursor to the Special Stage Ring hunting in S3&K and Mania(to be fair this is coming from someone who also likes games like Metroid so I might be a bit biased)
I'm surprised you didn't mention how there are rings stuck inside the walls - I always thought it was because in the future/past level variants there would be no wall there, but I'm sure I remember testing that and the rings were always just stuck inside there.
You could sometimes time travel into a wall so they put rings there to help you find yourself out.
what's weird about it? It plays like any other sonic game. You go from A-B and if you got 50 rings you can go to the special stage. Seems pretty simple to me
Now the only question remains: why the hell doesn't Sonic Mania have an elevator button for Sonic CD in the opening cutscene?
Not the only game Mania pretends doesnt exist, haha.
Though stardust speedway and metallic madness return.
I assume you mean Sonic 4? That's a good thing.
And yeah, since those two zones returned you'd think they have added CD to the intro.
I wondered this myself, especially considering it's one of the games with zones appearing in Mania
To this day it still pisses me off that they forgot about CD in the elevator scene, really dumb. But now that i think they probably have fear of putting CD in some part of the story because nobody really knows where it happens. Anyways Mania doesnt even explain the whole Little Planet thing.
I just watched other youtubers and there reviews and wow. I thought they were shit and still think there shit compared to this. This is really good explanation of how a lot of things work in this game. Other youtubers I wont name will say they hate a concept in the game but dont explain why it they say "its annoying"...not a very good explanation. The ones I watched also had nothing good to say about the game (other then the music). Really disappointing out of all these reviews I've watched...yours is the least viewed :( you deserve a lot more views and subs
I honestly cannot bring myself to like this game simply because of the level design, but this was an exceptional review. Reviewers nowadays need to be more like you; critical, but also rewarding where necessary. You've gained a subscriber and I look forward to watching your Sonic 3 video!
Objectively, not the best game. Subjectively, I have that "my first Sonic game" love for it. For the longest time it was the only mainline Sonic game you could get on the PC and my parents thought consoles were the devil. Not only did I pour over the game, finding all the secrets, beating all the bonus stages, getting all the good futures, you could pop the disc into a CD player and listen to the soundtrack. A lot of kids in school wondered why I had a PC game in my Discman.
Great video as always, KingK!
Very good job with the video my friend. Been checking out your stuff since the sonic mania vid and i gotta say, you earned my sub.
Side note though I think everyone hates wacky workbench because of the fact that the only way to beat the stage (that i know of) is to stay close to the ground however since the ground flings you up and you gotta get back down, it just wastes a bunch of your time. (Also gg on finding the angel statue i found out about it like 7 years after my first playthrough)
Wacky Workbench's OSTs from both soundtracks tho. Really good.
Whenever I play CD I usually take out the Robot Generators as well to make sure if I fuck up with Time Stones, I'll have a Failsafe good ending.
1:13 It was the first port so it makes sense
4:27 made me realize how easily Eggman would have won in Stardust Speedway if Metal Sonic was the one flying the laser egg-o-matic while Eggman raced sonic.
"How can a man... that fat... run that fucking fast..."
13:57 I hated that generator too, but I don't think the other pistons in the level killed you either. In fact, I think in the present, the pistons are in pairs, while in the past most of the pistons are non existent except for the one that takes you to the generator. I notice this as I was playing but I kept doubting myself because it didn't really follow with how the previous generators were hidden and I ended up wasting even more time than necessary.
Hey, Mario is never really stated to be involved with the princess. That's part of the reason people get tired of him saving her constantly. Plus, he saved Daisy and Pauline.
I personally enjoyed the game more while trying to find every single robot generator. I actually found it easier than trying to master the special stages.
If you go for it then you get to experience the level design a lot more and i could find them all easily without needing to look it up somewhere (with the exception of the one where you have to be crushed by the pistol. That one is just unfair). But yeah, traveling to the past, while fun to try, can be infuriating. Specially because most of the time i find myself almost accidentally traveling to the future just running normal but when i'm trying to go to the past it's almost impossible. It kind of feels like the future posts are supposed to be obstacles.
Great stuff as always! I try for years to like Sonic CD, but even enjoying the soundtrack and the visual design of the levels (the crazy industrial designs of Robotnik lairs is something I love in the classic Sonics, and CD nails it), I stop playing after just completing the first stage. I don't know, maybe I don't like the crazy level design which stops Sonic from running constantly even if the game encourages speed to time travel, but your review kinda made me want to try again, if accept and embrace the crazyness and random stuff is what this game is about after all, maybe I should try that and forget the more classic design of the others Sonic games, I guess...
In my opinion, CD has a LOT right with it, but it has a few drawbacks. I like it better than Sonic 1, but the level design is still pretty frustrating compared to 2 and 3&K. I guess CD was kind of Sonic 1's vision realized. Sonic 1 was more focused on tight platforming than Sonic 2 and 3&K.
I first played it when borrowing a friend's SEGA CD, /after/ playing Sonic 3. I didn't understand the time travel component, and was oblivious to the robot generators. I just played through it with the intention of beating the game. I didn't have the game manual and so I played without "purpose" in a sense. The purpose of those components were not obvious to me.
When I grabbed it for XBLA nearly 20 years later I didn't feel the levels compelling enough to explore and I think I know why. I think they were a little too open. Not necessarily large, but contained a lot of "white space". Whereas Sonic 3 had design that was large and expansive, you could still map the levels in your head. I can look at any screenshot of Sonic 3 and know where it generally is, in my head. This makes finding secrets a little more compelling, because you recognize a path, and go off the beaten path. In SCD, it was wide open with a ton of "white space" and little direction (just enough to play the game and enjoy it, though). By not able to "map" levels in my head I felt more compelled to just run to the end of the level. Something I also did with Knuckles Chaotix (also my 32X would freeze randomly so that had a large part to do with that, heh).
Looking back at it from a tech perspective, I feel like the level design was showing off what the hardware could do. Redbook audio and sprite scaling aside, having a CD where you can fit hundreds of Megabytes frees you from the constraint of a 48Megabit cartridge (which was huge and costly at the time, but still 1/10 of what a CD could give you). The levels were larger than S1 and S2 due to more RAM. The ability to have 3 variations of tiles per level was due to the CD being able to hold all of that. They were flexing the hardware with the levels, and maybe the time travel mechanic was an excuse to show off the fact that they could hold all of those tile variations on the CD? Who knows.
Great video, and it's such a shame than Sonic 3 is the only one without the modern mobile port.
This is actually my second favourite classic Sonic title after S3K, I think largely because of the visual aesthetic and the soundtrack (both versions). Plus the opening animation blew my mind as a kid.
So it wasn't just me who noticed the level design just felt thrown together. One thing I have to say about the levels is that they seem to be basically rehashes of Sonic 1, with two exceptions:
Palmtree panic is green hill (I'll give this a pass, every sonic game has this level)
Tidal tempest is Labyrinth (I mean, right down to the aztech designs and everything)
Stardust Speedway is Starlight (Marble zone in the past I guess?)
Metallic madness is Scrap brain (Almost exactly the same in theme)
Just strikes me as really unimaginative.
Great thoughts. I grew up with to PC port, and defended it a lot as the game nobody else played. The remake was weird seeing so many people start having opinions on it, but I'm very happy how many systems got a port of it and how very definitive it is.
Also, best song is US bad future Metal Sonic fight, and then of course, Sonic Boom. :D
As someone that used to own a Sega CD and a copy of Sonic CD, North American soundtrack and all, I actually had more fun with the original version of the game than Taxman's seventh-gen update and re-release. I had a whole lot more difficulty with the special stages in his version because the framerate was updated to 60 fps in contrast to the original game's 30 fps. Because of this, I couldn't hit the UFOs for shit. At best, I could only earn three Time Stones on my own gameplay abilities. I also hated that Taxman made all the secrets and cheats bonus features that you had to unlock by earning all or most the game's Achievements/Trophies. That's not to say that Taxman's job on Sonic CD wasn't terrible; for from it, in my humble opinion. I just hated those particular changes. Well, I can always play Sonic CD on the Sega CD via emulation with both the North American and Japanese/European soundtrack. Great video.
CD is my second favourite classic behind Sonic 2 and I agree with almost everything in this video. It's a weird game that offers a ton of exploration but doesn't really give you much reason to explore. A lot of the levels can just be finished in less than a minute by running forward and making a few easy jumps.
And I feel like I'm probably the only person on earth who doesn't like Sonic 3&K, but I'll spare my effort for when the video comes out.
Levobertus I played s3&k once, and at the end was just like, "meh." i finally played it more, and while i can say gameplay wise it's good, the levels seem a bit uninspired, sure the ice cap zone theme is amazing, but it's just an ice cave, marble garden is kinda just meh, and lava reef to a lesser extent. I still like the gameplay, just think it has a bit dull visuals.
John Doe the problem I have is that it relies a lot on memorization. It has a lot of traps you can't see coming and that are down right cheap and it gets frustrating. That and the levels feel lackluster a lot of the time, like you said. Ice cap act 1 is so boring to play and so are a lot of other levels.
Cameron Douglas honestly marble garden can go fuck itself with its giant spike spheres coming out of screen so fast you can't dodge them, badniks disguised as spikes, awkwardly controlling flying pads and untelegraphed bosses with the eggman boss throwing you into a control scheme without ever explaining it to you.
I totally agree. 3&K is good but it's too big and cluttered for it's own good. There are too many bottlenecks and long set pieces that make repeat playthroughs tedious, and the game isn't well-optimized for speedrunning like Sonic 2 was. A lot of the time it feels like a generic adventure game with Sonic in it rather than a true Sonic game, and it segments the "elements of the triad" far too much, with long sections of speed totally devoid of interaction and slow, laborious platforming that isn't much fun, while 2, CD and Mania integrated these elements far more and were better for it.
Ted Mosby this so much
Great Retrospective, Sonic CD is my favourite Sonic game and in my top5 favourite game. Despite the level design flaws, I still got immense in CD world, the graphics, exploration and most of all the music especially the JP/Euro soundtrack. I have yet to play S3&K to see if I like better than CD or even Sonic 2.
Aren't the half pipes in Collision Chaos for time travel?
"Why wouldn't I just ... Spindash?" In CD, the Spindash doesn't maintain momentum as well as the Peel-Out does.
But the peel doesn't give you defense
@@BitchChill you can press down to start rolling tho
@@LonelySpaceDetective Weeb
I found a glitch in the Sonic CD mobile port, on Wacky Workbench 1 sometimes I hit the past sign, time travel, and it'll actually take me to the future instead of the past. Actually had this glitch happen 3 times lol. Easily fixable by exiting and reloading the save file though, it only happens like 1 out every 10 times
Idea: The Present variants of each level is more focused on speed, but when you go past a time travel signpost (that act as checkpoints) and jump in to the nasteeh twinklies like entering Special Stages in Sonic 2 or Bonus Stages in Sonic Mania, Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Doing this will send you to the past (all signposts in the present are past signposts that are replaced by Future signposts in the past), which has a more non-linear design, and simply do the same while in the past to travel back to the present. Good/Bad Futures would be reserved for 3rd acts.
I think this could benefit the game very much, meaning those who want to explore can go to the past and destroy the generator of the act (which would automatically send you back to the present) while those who just want to play it like a normal Sonic game can speed through and ignore the past entirely to get the Time Stones from the Special Stages [which now automatically makes a Good Future for the level you were in when you beat the Special Stage, instead of re-writing time once you get all 7 {Only need to get 1 Stone per stage, not both acts, if you get the Time Stone in the 1st act, the ring will not appear in the 2nd}]), which makes it possible to get some Time Stones and some Robot Generators and still get the good ending, instead of needing to either get all the generators or all the stones (or both if you're insane).
Also, the part about only needing 1 Time Stone per stage to get the Good Future in said stage also gives you 2 chances to get a Good Future in the level you're in, per level.
Oh, and maybe keep the piss-easy bosses we already have and save them for the Good Futures and make the bosses harder in the Bad Futures. Maybe replace the bumpers on the EGG-HVC-001 with spikes or something and be forced to attack behind it when it jumps, instead of just jumping bumpers a bunch of times until they retract and you hit the robot 3 times.
Maybe make the Bad Future version of Quartz Quadrant's boss retract the room Eggman controls everything from rise over time and force you to knock it down every once in a while, perhaps make there more to focus on instead of just slow down when a bomb is a bout to drop and keep running.
Give the Metallic Madness boss more windmill fans and thus more hitpoints and things to worry about being hit by, with the fans spinning exponentially faster the less there are, making it harder to just take a hit in exchange for knocking the first one off and it being a cakewalk from then on.
This rewards either destroying the generators or collecting the Time Stones with easier bosses.
contrary to popular belief none of the pistons in wacky workbench will crush you, they all lead to secret paths.
Scrap Brain is a great zone though, really feels like your navigating through a dangerous industrial complex. It's much better than Metropolis which is just repetitive visually as well as level design.
slightlytwistedagain Sonic 1 is my least favorite from the Classic ones but i totally agree. Scrap Brain > Metropolis any day.
just found your channel today and I really enjoy the videos!!!
I feel like the general philosophy of the game is trying to encourage you to time travel but also the level design makes you lose your speed at every turn. You question the amount of random bumpers and enemies but I've always felt they were explicitly placed to cause you to lose your momentum and in turn lose that time travel ability.
In this way it makes the levels feel more actively antagonistic towards Sonic since everything was created by Eggman. I know there's a few times where you can just wait and store up the momentum but it's always been more fun to me to know the level design and avoid the springs and random blocks that will try to stop Sonic and just boost into the past. A few annoying robot generators aside it's more cool for me to break them cause it feels like I'm actively taking part in restoring the world and it feels like that's more central to my goal than fighting Eggman. The big expansive levels make it feel more like hunt for a needle in a haystack than trying to boost to the end, which I think is a cool change.
I do think it tries too hard to blend this new philosophy into old Sonic and perhaps would be better if it wasn't Sonic in the first place but I don't think it really feels super out there especially since it's clearly inspired by Back to the Future. And I think it's interesting that they built effectively four levels for every act considering they're so big.
Also those half pipes you were questioning were probably there to generate the necessary amount of speed to time travel while still moving forward.
Okay this is just sort of a mesh together of how I feel about CD so there isn't really any cohesion. Idk, just read it and you'll see what I mean.
Sonic CD is one of my favorite 2D platformers (second only to Megaman X) and I honestly don't know why. The JP soundtrack is definitely a contributor though. I think what makes it so great is the music, stage aesthetics, atmosphere, and special stages that are actually fun to play. Sure the level design isn't for everyone, but I think its fun to play around with the physics. My favorite zone in the game is actually Collision Chaos because of that (and the awesome present soundtrack of course). I also love CD because, it plays much differently than any other 2D sonic game. I think that if you're a fan of more traditional platformers like Mario and you want to start playing Sonic, i'd honestly recommend CD as your first.
I was yearning for this :) thanks, KingK
I've just _never_ enjoyed CD's unfinished stage design. It just feels so messy. Like you said though, really creative gimmicks, which I enjoy. Wacky Workbench is a favourite.
A couple of things,
1. im pretty sure the pistons you mention don't crush you, in fact there's some secrets in them
2. There's more than one past post, don't know the exact number, but around 3 in the zone, still kinda frustrating, but i find it a nice challenge.
It still feels a bit backwards after the game and the two before it are all like"Don't stand under these for too long."
Yeah, making a section where it forces you into one would be good. It's kinda like the spikes in marble garden from S3&K
You should do retrospectives on some Mario titles. Really enjoy these videos, effort doesn't go unnoticed. Great job!
Am I the only one who loves speed running the later levels IN CLASS?
was trying to remember the CD levels the other day, I always forget Quartz Quadrant
Tbh I feel like the level design in this game is an example of jumbled up puzzle pieces. The level design just doesn't have the sense of flow like in Mania, 3K and 2. It just doesn't feel natural. Like you said, I'd rather go wherever the level takes me.
Never play SONIC BOOM!
-Sonic CD Intro
i think i enjoy Sonic Cd most for its themes more than anything else. I think it is cool to see differences between the good and bad futures in both music and design. It makes me care about saving Little Planet and Amy. enough for me to not really care enough about its not great level design
The level design in this game is HORRENDOUS. Oh, the peelout gives you twice as much speed as the spin dash.
4:22 O' Really? Sonic 2 (GG/Master syetem) - Robo Sonic, Sonic 2 (Genesis) - Mecha Sonic, Sonic CD- Metal Sonic and finally Sonic and Knuckles = Mecha Sonic AND EggRobo! 13:00 Why do you think? To build speed to be able to warp OBVIOUSLY!
Technically you go faster with the super peel out so...
This video perfectly encapsulates why I don't really care for this game. For a game that prides itself on being about exploration, they really don't give you any incentive to explore the levels. They may have more nooks and crannies compared to Sonic 1, 2 and 3K, but they never do anything interesting with them. There's nothing to do in these levels after you destroy the robot generators other than run around aimlessly and collect rings. In the mainline Genesis games it was fun to explore because you actually felt rewarded for it and the base levels were fun enough to play regardless of exploration not being as much of a focus.
I don't get why people say this isn't "fast" like Sonic 2: almost every level can be beaten in under a minute if you choose not to explore. I beat this game in under an hour last week after about 10 years of not playing it.
Fast meaning you can fly through the levels at high speed IF you choose to. Get off deez boy
Honestly it can be a nightmare to play. And watch. You feel the time travel coming, and then BAM wall or Future sign purposefully placed in your path. It's cruel.
Honestly Sonic CD would've been the best Sonic game of all time if they fixed the shitty spin dash (which they did in the Taxman port), had less cluttered level design with shit in the way constantly, and if it wasn't released on a shitty console (or a shitty add-on to an amazing console I guess).
I've played Sonic CD for years and I've never seen the secret at 12:25.
Some games have great soundtracks, but Sonic cd has TWO great soundtracks.
Bringing up the more vertical stages is interesting, considering this is apparently Taxman's favorite Sonic and it feels like that may have been a factor when considering the stages he selected for Mania.
I can freely admit that Sonic CD level design is incredibly wonky, but I love the game all the same. It's just got a great feel to it... Something about the combination of the beautiful art direction of each level, the fact that there are four versions of every level to explore, and that amazing soundtrack (both of them, but I grew up in the US one, and when I discovered by accident that the CD was it's own soundtrack I listened to it all the time). And some creative, if silly, gimmicks. I think you nailed it that it's just relaxing to play. Objectively it's not one of the best Sonic games, but I have a huge soft spot for Sonic CD.
The only sonic games I liked where 1, 2, and Generations, and 4 Part 1. 3 and Colors where ok. I played CD on my iPad....didn’t like it too much. Maybe it was the iPad controls. Giving the fact that the vast majority of Sonic games suck, I think the franchise needs to die.
14:00 actually none of the pistons in wacky workbench crush you
Fun fact, in the sega cd original release’s manual, Amy is called “Princess Sally” and I want to punch someone.
For the PC version you can mod the lyrics back into the Intro and Ending, i did and it's great. More a fan of the American soundtrack but i love the Japanese opening/ending.