Hey all, just wanted to say that towards the final 5-7 minutes there were a lot of issues with audio so I had to cut out some very important bits (with no time to redo). I tried to fill in the points with on screen text, I hope that it's still understandable and if you guys have any questions about the final definition please feel free to reply to me here and I'll do my best to answer them! Also, there were some people I interviewed who didn't fully agree with the idea that dive is a playstyle, I want to once again emphasize that there is no objective definition of it! It's just a very broad/diverse concept and I thought that the discussion was really cool and interesting! Thanks for watching!
Dive just means "focus fire" while brawl is "everyone on their own" during team fights. Poke means long range fights. Winston is a good example of Dive because of his low damage. If his damage was higher, then he wouldn't need Tracer + Sombra. Who could swap to Brawl or Poke. Pole Dive Brawl intertwine at the cost of Comp. It's why Ana is both Brawl and Poke but not Dive.
Dive is the concept, a strategy. Dive Playstyle is the action/reaction of guerilla tactics. Dive composition is made of heroes that can enable the playstyle. A strategy (dive, deathball) doesn't work if the pieces are mismatched.
This was such an amazing video! I absolutely loved everything. I love seeing a bunch of people i follow and subscribe to, also talk about other creators i like! Its such a treat seeing so many familiar faces 😁
If you think about it, the 3 original comps mapped very specifically to tank duos - Zarya and Rein would aggressively push an angle, D.Va and Winston would invest all their resources into quickly taking a specific point, and Orisa and Sigma would aggressively fortify a specific area and attack the enemy from range. With 5v5, the resources to control and deny space were vastly reduced, expanding the amount of safe, neutral space and simultaneously making it easier to attack a given position or player. In this way, it seems to be less important to play around your tanks - it even being a worse strategy, since you will simply give your opponents a point to spam at without having the resources to withstand such an onslaught. And so, there no longer seems to be a basis for the original 3 strategies. In this new environment, this modern "dive" seems to be aiming to control this new, open space - denying enemy positions and claiming positions for itself. To this end, it can use heroes that can quickly take these angles - but also heroes that can control large percentages of the availabe unclaimed space. By this logic, while tracer is definitely a dive hero, widowmaker and ashe could also be used as "dive" heroes - both of which appeared in the presented game. Even mei could be considered dive, given how her wall, in maps with important choke points (like mecha base, in the video), can make large areas far less safe to take.
This was a really great video! I think it wrestled with the word "dive" meaning so many different things in a really cool way. It was kind of an exploration of what most good Overwatch looks like through the guise of trying to define the word dive. To some people it seems, that is what dive means. Awesome stuff, super educational. I love watching stuff like this and understanding the newer parts of competitive overwatch a little better than I did before. Really awesome stuff
I really hope we can see more dive in OWCS 2025, it felt like it was just brawl/rush all year besides the first week and the small DVa Juno speed ring meta.
Yeah, one thing that I didn't include was that Cap actually said whenever heroes like Juno and Mauga are overtuned it negates dive being good, so I hope that we see it get fixed.
The way I used to see it and I don't know if it's really the case or not, is that dive is a comp with an independent backline and frontline, with the first being more static with strong but limited los, and the later being more mobile with a potential control over more of the map. This is different from brawl being an all in stacked comp where supports generally play closer to their team, and poke where the front line isn't going in and challenging space outside of los. Another way to see it is a Lucio/Brig/Illari split. Lucio's aura gets the most value when the whole team is stacked making him the brawl support in my opinion (and yes with my definition I consider Lucio - Kiriko/Moira brawl even when played with a "dive tank" as those teams don't have backlines). Brig gets the most value when protecting her backline while being able to heal and boop at a distance making her the dive support, she's encouraged to play split from her frontline and stacked with her backline. Illari has angle pressure with a very potent short range healing but no heals at a distance, she gets the most value when playing closer to her team and further from the enemy. This is not to say that you can't play these heroes with other playstyles, technically you could play back and forth with lucio pealing for your backline and helping your front line push, but that's very rarely the optimal comp. Brig could and has been used on poke but you'd generally take Illari's burst damage at a distance and healing up close over the slightly better peal brig offers. I guess you could use Illari in brawl, but you'd be seriously more fragile while not providing the utility of speed boost and pylon would be harder to take advantage of. The only sort of exception I see with this is brig/juno that has generally been described as a brawl, but even then the comp still use speed ring to take backline trades and use brig to avoid those, rather than ignoring the concept of backline entirely with an undivable Moira/Kiri - Lucio, so I think it still counts as a dive comp, as you still have a vulnerable juno, protected by her brig and the front line further ahead taking angles. As for any hero being this or that, I just think it's a meta question. Like if Mauga or Rein have enough sustain to afford to disengage in a specific meta or map, they are completely valid as dive heroes. Mauga can struggle to disengage against certain heroes if the map doesn't offer good cover to retreat to on ground level, but I don't find overrun too dissimilar to jump or booster on the maps he's played on, and cardiac can be effectively used as a Winston bubble, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Mauga started to be taking turns more.
I think it's possible to define a comp into a dive, brawl, or poke category by using two metrics; what is the effective range of the comp, and how far apart is the spacing between the different angles a comp wants to operate in. i would define a dive comp as having a close effective range, and far spacing between the angles each player uses. Think of how winston and tracer most often approaches a fight. Tracer uses her high mobility to come from far flanks, while winston often stages from "main". Brawl would be close spacing and close effective range. Think of the Mauga, Juno, Brig, Reaper and Echo comp. The composition exploits Mauga E with close spacing, while Echo compliments the engage from a close angle. Poke is a bit different in terms of spacing, since the supports played in poke (zen/brig, ana/brig, mercy/ana, etc.) have the ability to support from a far. This allows for far spacing on maps such as Rialto, where a lot of teams have a three-way split. Tank anchoring point, a core consisting of supps and a dps, and a dps whos often solo on an angle. However this is not always true. On more narrow maps such as Circuit Royale first point, poke comps are more closely spaced due to the maps limitations. I think what's most important whenever we discuss definitions, is that they have a practical use. While this video is very detailed and well constructed, i think the definitions gets either too technical or too complicated to have any real uses. This is also the reason i did not mention hybrid comps, since it's most often impractical to think that way. At least in my opinion. Because even though the VPs comp, on downtown, was a hybrid of dive and poke, is it still more practical to think of how the snipers (the poke aspect) can compliment the dive or vice versa. First time watching your videos, and apologies for my (sort of) broken English. Keep it up!
I think angle taking is necessary for all heroes. imo a composition is defined by the tank and how the tank creates space. Dive is a composition where the tank creates space by ignoring frontline and going straight to the backline. If the hog is ignoring you then the frontline to you, the mauga, is whoever you can reach first, in this case its the supports. Mauga isnt going out of his way to hunt down the supports but hog is going out of his way to avoid him which turns the heroes who normally would be backliners into frontliners.
I remember back in the day watching dive in OW1 and seeing Miro juggle pharahs and mercys off the map and then timing his CD's to come back alive all the while taking rockets to the face... Was absolute PEAK overwatch. Good old days were incredible for this game, now it's just nowhere near the same anymore. Sad to see something once so great fall so far.
@@coachwhistle264 Aside from kiri-lucio almost all metas have been nowhere near the same imo. Basically spam, poke mirrors. I dont think we will ever see the like of teams like the good old days. Sad seeing how far it has fallen even in basic things like the dev community interactions. Hell we get better trailers for collabs to sell skins then we do for heroes coming into the game.
As a Doom OTP, I feel I sort of had this outlook already, and yet, I feel like I have a completely new way to look at my actions. I think I need to watch this video before playing everyday cause this really makes me think.
This is super interesting to her bc I started playing ow in season 6 of ow2 with my only other fps experience coming from valorant. In Val I have played pretty competitively and coach a high level t3 team so I really enjoy the strategy that game provides. When I started overwatch I naturally found myself wanting to know more about the strategy in this game and looked online for resources. I kept finding things talking about the rock paper scissors of brawl dive and poke and I kept thinking to myself that it didn’t feel correct. This I think perfectly explains it. In dummy terms, strategy in tactical fps games is to set up map control and then take executes and then hold that space from the enemy teams own execute. Overwatch strategy is similar but instead of taking executes and holding the space that you take it is more about the map control that you have and what you can do with it as well as what the enemy can do with their map control. It’s almost like both teams are on the attack side and the objective for your execute is determined entirely by the other teams objective and decisions.
Poke, dive, and brawl, are all concepts. Which sounds like a cop out answer but, you can dive with any character, poke or brawl with any. Certain heros lend themselves to be better at certain play styles.
I think Dive and being a hero is based of the actions and the map... First thing that comes to mind is Dorado and Numbani First and Volskaya 2nd. For me controlling at least 2 to 3 angles from what I've seen in OWL and OWCS and collapsing in, putting pressure on the enemy at once.
30 minute upload 😍😍😍 also i wanted to make a suggestion; i love that you go over more than just gameplay in the videos, including discussions . for the screenshots of quotes, where you use the white text over it, it got a bit hard to follow during long ones. i think bc of the text on text visual. maybe in the future, just doing a zoomed in scroll of the screenshot would be easier to read? so its just one image but we still get full sized reading? or whatever you find works the best, just wanted to offer my perspective🩷 keep up with the amazing content!!!
I'm only 26 minutes into the video, so forgive me if this is gone over in more detail, but as a cardgame player, I don't think the analogy was quite made right. To me, rush comps are like the aggro decks, brawl comps are like the midrange decks, dive is like a tempo deck, and poke is like a control deck. The phrase that stuck out in particular to me was "win through multiple win cons and skill expression;" control decidedly does not have multiple wincons. Poke's whole deal is to sit back and drain resources and deny value until they can win a teamfight. Rush comps are usually too fast for poke, and can do enough fast enough to deny their value being denied. Brawl comps can punish dives heavy enough to win some games, but that matchup is very skill dependant. The cardgame analogy is very apt, I just think we weren't quite right on which deck was which comp.
I'm wondering then how brawl and poke work. I guess the reason you don't see poke as much at the higher level is because it more relies on the enemy making a mistake (overextending, peeking, etc.) rather than making the good outcome yourself (forcing an engagement). They both take angles but one waits and the other presses the issue. Brawl is harder to think about, but I guess it's because it doesn't play well into dive? Like, all the angles means there's no one place to go and brawl that will win, and you're constantly between angles and therefore between threats. This is probably why Triple DPS could beat GOATS. Of course, this is where the map comes in. If a map doesn't have that many angles, a different comp can thrive. If it has long sightlines (Circuit, etc.), poke can work, but if it doesn't, brawl will work. I'm just a gold player tho ;)
i think theres a BUNCH of complications to "dive" and thats where the confusion lies. when people hear "dive" they think "dive comp, dive heros, diving a target" when theres multiple different FORMS of dive as a term that muddies the definition of "dive" by itself. theres DIVE tanks, which are tanks well versed in mobility, both vertically and horizontally. theres BRAWL tanks, which CAN exceed in mobility, but ONLY horizontally, POKE tanks are tanks that fight for picks before committing to a engage.(i will explain why i describe these two soon) theres DIVE COMPS, which is a team of dive heros designed to jump the backline quickly, then theres "DIVING A TARGET" which is the big confusing target because brawl, dive and even POKE in some situations co-ordinate dives. dive comp didn't get its name because its the "Diver" its called dive because dive heros SPECIFICALLY focus on diving a target as their main form of combat, where brawl and poke both have priorities besides just "dive the backline" thats my opinion on it at least.
Its rly not that complicated, dive is just an explosive playstyle that looks to burst down one target. It’s basically anything that isn’t a high sustain comp like poke/brawl and quasi bunker from ow1 I consider a hybrid dive/poke comp
dive, brawl, poke, aren't they all playstyles? i don't get it. almost every tank engages in some cycle of dive, brawl, poke throughout a match. just depends which one they lean more into lol feel like a lot of EU/NA teams don't really play "true" dive as well, compared to asian teams
The premise is off. No one is running Dive Strategy with a deathball playstyle(gap close and frag out). The Strategy needs effective goals (eg. gap close and frag out) which inform the playstyle. The Strategy also needs heroes that can accomplish the goals and play the playstyle. Trying to define Dive Strategy by its components misses the point. I'm glad people are talking about Dive though. It's my favorite kind of gameplay.
Rein/Lucio brawl is just that; brawl. Rush is a playstyle so sure those heroes can play rush but with like Sym and Mei and Bap you'll often be looking to play a lot more push/pull and play for sustain which isn't rush. This Mauga/Juno/Brig comp we've been seeing is a rush comp. Once they engage the fight is won or lost right then and there, usually very quickly. Rein comps aren't really like that. The Orisa variant was a lot less rush and more pure brawl Imo.
Randomly got this video in my feed, and I'm always curious of others methods so I gave it a go : I have to say good job for trying to explain overwatch concepts, it's far from easy especially if you're talking to casual players who are just interested to know more. I have to say tho, that's it's looks insane to me to watch 30 min of someone explaining to me Dive, without talking about space and define it properly. Dive always has been a space control comp' and that's how we discovered it when it was first played in overwatch 1. People saying dive will always be meta (reference to capitology) when both JQ brawl and GOATs has been meta on OW 1 and OW 2 is also a bold take to say the least. To me it's sadly impossible to talk properly about this kind of concepts without talking about angle, attention and position, the 3 composants of space itself. You finish by defining the best comp' at taking better angles than the enemy team to fight them. In this case, any poke comp' (what VP plays on Meka-Base) are also dive comp'.To me each comp' a defined by their win-condition (as you said what they do the best). Poke comp' will always be the best at taking angles, rush comp' will always be the best comp' to play for 1 position (first name of this was deah-ball, 4 tanks 2 supports for the old ones), and dive will always be the best comp' to play for attention. Thinking that Dive has the "most answers" is true currently but it's just a direction the dev/balance team is taking, OW history proved than depending of what they make of the game, it would be completely different. There is maybe an argument tho, maybe all these names don't mean much in OW 2 even if they were totaly fine in OW 1, I say it again but when we discovered theses playstyles it was impossible to confuse them, you can't play an Orisa/Sigma the same way you played a Winston/DVA comp' or a Rein/Zarya comp' unless you started mirroring. I'm old for OW and maybe my vision of the game might be too, and I won't make it longer by defining turns, number advantages, attention management, off-angle, flanking etc... But sadly I think that's a first step before trying to define entire gamestyles. Still interesting tho to hear from other coaches.
i wont watch the whole vid bc its useless imo. rein is a dive tank yes if you watch players that are actually good with rein you know that with mei or lifweaver he can actually be a dive tank. also no dive isnt a comp its a playstyle wich is hella obvius that ppl need a explanation just showes how stupid the overwatch + battlepass players are. yes you need certain comps to play dive ( like with rein) but you can also play dps lucio does that mean lucio himself ( no other character) is a comp already ? ofc not idiot
@@bigbirdbirdbird funny i actually went on a walk after posting that comment maybe dont reverse your thinking ppl who play alot dont touch grass ppl like me who have a life actually do
Hey all, just wanted to say that towards the final 5-7 minutes there were a lot of issues with audio so I had to cut out some very important bits (with no time to redo). I tried to fill in the points with on screen text, I hope that it's still understandable and if you guys have any questions about the final definition please feel free to reply to me here and I'll do my best to answer them!
Also, there were some people I interviewed who didn't fully agree with the idea that dive is a playstyle, I want to once again emphasize that there is no objective definition of it! It's just a very broad/diverse concept and I thought that the discussion was really cool and interesting!
Thanks for watching!
Dive just means "focus fire" while brawl is "everyone on their own" during team fights. Poke means long range fights.
Winston is a good example of Dive because of his low damage. If his damage was higher, then he wouldn't need Tracer + Sombra. Who could swap to Brawl or Poke.
Pole Dive Brawl intertwine at the cost of Comp.
It's why Ana is both Brawl and Poke but not Dive.
Dive is the concept, a strategy. Dive Playstyle is the action/reaction of guerilla tactics. Dive composition is made of heroes that can enable the playstyle. A strategy (dive, deathball) doesn't work if the pieces are mismatched.
"rein is a dive tank"
"WHERE IS REINHARDT????" *rein pins past his whole team into the enemy backline*
Hey that's me! Thank you for including me in the video and taking my opinion into consideration
I really appreciate the help Maeve!
No thats me pal
You guys should kiss 🫢
Taking this video more seriously than my uni lectures
I made a tweet related to this LOL
Haha
Might be the best educational video on overwatch I’ve ever watched holy shit this is so comprehensive and useful
Thank you so much for the huge compliment! I really wanna keep pushing and make my content better so all the support is awesome!
You know it's a good day when Coach Whistle uploads
Glad I can brighten your day! Hope you enjoy the content
coach ocie collab peak
I really appreciate the help of everyone who was willing in this video, glad you're happy to see them too!
Chanel is underrated af
Thank you so much! Really working hard to get up there
my guy pretty like a girl
oh my god the only thing i know for real piano cover!
I WAS OBSESSED WHEN I FOUND IT, IT'S SO GOOD
Great concept and video idea. Also great execution
Really appreciate the support! I will do my best to continue making good content!
1:40 That circumstance being when Hadi is the reinhardt and he has a symmetra on his team... dive comp...
2:35. "There will be BLOOD.... SHED!"
j found your channel and i really appreciate the high quality overwatch content. plz keep up the good work !!
Will do boss!
This was such an amazing video! I absolutely loved everything. I love seeing a bunch of people i follow and subscribe to, also talk about other creators i like! Its such a treat seeing so many familiar faces 😁
Appreciate the love! Gonna do my best to keep putting out good content for you guys.
This is a masterpiece!
Really appreciate the love! Gonna keep working to bring you guys good content!
If you think about it, the 3 original comps mapped very specifically to tank duos - Zarya and Rein would aggressively push an angle, D.Va and Winston would invest all their resources into quickly taking a specific point, and Orisa and Sigma would aggressively fortify a specific area and attack the enemy from range.
With 5v5, the resources to control and deny space were vastly reduced, expanding the amount of safe, neutral space and simultaneously making it easier to attack a given position or player.
In this way, it seems to be less important to play around your tanks - it even being a worse strategy, since you will simply give your opponents a point to spam at without having the resources to withstand such an onslaught. And so, there no longer seems to be a basis for the original 3 strategies.
In this new environment, this modern "dive" seems to be aiming to control this new, open space - denying enemy positions and claiming positions for itself. To this end, it can use heroes that can quickly take these angles - but also heroes that can control large percentages of the availabe unclaimed space.
By this logic, while tracer is definitely a dive hero, widowmaker and ashe could also be used as "dive" heroes - both of which appeared in the presented game. Even mei could be considered dive, given how her wall, in maps with important choke points (like mecha base, in the video), can make large areas far less safe to take.
LEt The glaze commence, I love dive!
seeing your upload makes me happy
I'm so happy I can brighten someone's day with my content!
This was a really great video! I think it wrestled with the word "dive" meaning so many different things in a really cool way. It was kind of an exploration of what most good Overwatch looks like through the guise of trying to define the word dive. To some people it seems, that is what dive means. Awesome stuff, super educational. I love watching stuff like this and understanding the newer parts of competitive overwatch a little better than I did before. Really awesome stuff
"some of the best in the west, to learn dive" is something I never thought I'd hear ever
Fair enough, I'm surprised almost nobody pointed this out I just unfortunately don't have contacts in Korea lol
your choice of piano-ified music is very interesting, MG:R, DM Dokuro, its all great just throwing me for a loop
Gotta add the energy because God knows I can't put it in my voice
hey its blossm from back in the olden days with celestial/team unlimited! super cool video by far your best work keep it up!!
Thanks so much!
I love your vids man! keep it up
Thank you so much, I will!
I really hope we can see more dive in OWCS 2025, it felt like it was just brawl/rush all year besides the first week and the small DVa Juno speed ring meta.
Yeah, one thing that I didn't include was that Cap actually said whenever heroes like Juno and Mauga are overtuned it negates dive being good, so I hope that we see it get fixed.
COACH OCIE. THE GOAT, THE GOAT!!
Truly the Albert Einstein of our generation
The way I used to see it and I don't know if it's really the case or not, is that dive is a comp with an independent backline and frontline, with the first being more static with strong but limited los, and the later being more mobile with a potential control over more of the map. This is different from brawl being an all in stacked comp where supports generally play closer to their team, and poke where the front line isn't going in and challenging space outside of los.
Another way to see it is a Lucio/Brig/Illari split. Lucio's aura gets the most value when the whole team is stacked making him the brawl support in my opinion (and yes with my definition I consider Lucio - Kiriko/Moira brawl even when played with a "dive tank" as those teams don't have backlines). Brig gets the most value when protecting her backline while being able to heal and boop at a distance making her the dive support, she's encouraged to play split from her frontline and stacked with her backline. Illari has angle pressure with a very potent short range healing but no heals at a distance, she gets the most value when playing closer to her team and further from the enemy.
This is not to say that you can't play these heroes with other playstyles, technically you could play back and forth with lucio pealing for your backline and helping your front line push, but that's very rarely the optimal comp. Brig could and has been used on poke but you'd generally take Illari's burst damage at a distance and healing up close over the slightly better peal brig offers. I guess you could use Illari in brawl, but you'd be seriously more fragile while not providing the utility of speed boost and pylon would be harder to take advantage of.
The only sort of exception I see with this is brig/juno that has generally been described as a brawl, but even then the comp still use speed ring to take backline trades and use brig to avoid those, rather than ignoring the concept of backline entirely with an undivable Moira/Kiri - Lucio, so I think it still counts as a dive comp, as you still have a vulnerable juno, protected by her brig and the front line further ahead taking angles.
As for any hero being this or that, I just think it's a meta question. Like if Mauga or Rein have enough sustain to afford to disengage in a specific meta or map, they are completely valid as dive heroes. Mauga can struggle to disengage against certain heroes if the map doesn't offer good cover to retreat to on ground level, but I don't find overrun too dissimilar to jump or booster on the maps he's played on, and cardiac can be effectively used as a Winston bubble, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Mauga started to be taking turns more.
Really appreciate your take on this! I like my videos to be points of discussion so I'm glad to see people participating!
Goat channel ngl
Thanks for the support! More coming in January!
YESSSSSS ANOTHER COACH WHISTLE UPLOAD LETS GOO
Glad you're so enthusiastic, hope the video was to your liking!
I think it's possible to define a comp into a dive, brawl, or poke category by using two metrics; what is the effective range of the comp, and how far apart is the spacing between the different angles a comp wants to operate in.
i would define a dive comp as having a close effective range, and far spacing between the angles each player uses. Think of how winston and tracer most often approaches a fight. Tracer uses her high mobility to come from far flanks, while winston often stages from "main".
Brawl would be close spacing and close effective range. Think of the Mauga, Juno, Brig, Reaper and Echo comp. The composition exploits Mauga E with close spacing, while Echo compliments the engage from a close angle.
Poke is a bit different in terms of spacing, since the supports played in poke (zen/brig, ana/brig, mercy/ana, etc.) have the ability to support from a far. This allows for far spacing on maps such as Rialto, where a lot of teams have a three-way split. Tank anchoring point, a core consisting of supps and a dps, and a dps whos often solo on an angle. However this is not always true. On more narrow maps such as Circuit Royale first point, poke comps are more closely spaced due to the maps limitations.
I think what's most important whenever we discuss definitions, is that they have a practical use. While this video is very detailed and well constructed, i think the definitions gets either too technical or too complicated to have any real uses. This is also the reason i did not mention hybrid comps, since it's most often impractical to think that way. At least in my opinion. Because even though the VPs comp, on downtown, was a hybrid of dive and poke, is it still more practical to think of how the snipers (the poke aspect) can compliment the dive or vice versa.
First time watching your videos, and apologies for my (sort of) broken English. Keep it up!
I think angle taking is necessary for all heroes. imo a composition is defined by the tank and how the tank creates space. Dive is a composition where the tank creates space by ignoring frontline and going straight to the backline. If the hog is ignoring you then the frontline to you, the mauga, is whoever you can reach first, in this case its the supports. Mauga isnt going out of his way to hunt down the supports but hog is going out of his way to avoid him which turns the heroes who normally would be backliners into frontliners.
I remember back in the day watching dive in OW1 and seeing Miro juggle pharahs and mercys off the map and then timing his CD's to come back alive all the while taking rockets to the face... Was absolute PEAK overwatch.
Good old days were incredible for this game, now it's just nowhere near the same anymore. Sad to see something once so great fall so far.
Some metas still feel that way, just gotta stick around for the good ones!
@@coachwhistle264 Aside from kiri-lucio almost all metas have been nowhere near the same imo. Basically spam, poke mirrors.
I dont think we will ever see the like of teams like the good old days. Sad seeing how far it has fallen even in basic things like the dev community interactions. Hell we get better trailers for collabs to sell skins then we do for heroes coming into the game.
i played overwatch for like a week, never even got level 50 for ranked, but i still watch these videos i have no business watching
YOU SHOULD HAVE 50k SUBS BY NOW YOUR CONTENT IS SOOOO GOOD
I'm certainly doing my best! Any support and help spreading my videos helps immensely and I appreciate your support!
As a Doom OTP, I feel I sort of had this outlook already, and yet, I feel like I have a completely new way to look at my actions. I think I need to watch this video before playing everyday cause this really makes me think.
kid icarus uprising music makes my heart SOAR
COACH OCIE RAHHH
THE GOAT RAAAAHHHH
This is super interesting to her bc I started playing ow in season 6 of ow2 with my only other fps experience coming from valorant. In Val I have played pretty competitively and coach a high level t3 team so I really enjoy the strategy that game provides. When I started overwatch I naturally found myself wanting to know more about the strategy in this game and looked online for resources. I kept finding things talking about the rock paper scissors of brawl dive and poke and I kept thinking to myself that it didn’t feel correct. This I think perfectly explains it. In dummy terms, strategy in tactical fps games is to set up map control and then take executes and then hold that space from the enemy teams own execute. Overwatch strategy is similar but instead of taking executes and holding the space that you take it is more about the map control that you have and what you can do with it as well as what the enemy can do with their map control. It’s almost like both teams are on the attack side and the objective for your execute is determined entirely by the other teams objective and decisions.
what a banger
Really appreciate the support! I'm doing my best to put out high quality content for you all!
Fantastic video.
Thank you so much! Doing my best to grow my channel so I appreciate all the support!
Poke, dive, and brawl, are all concepts. Which sounds like a cop out answer but, you can dive with any character, poke or brawl with any. Certain heros lend themselves to be better at certain play styles.
Calling Rush Five Guys that's a first 😂I like it
The name derives from the original 6 man dive comp when we swapped from OW1 to OW2
Great Video
Thank you so much! Really appreciate your help with it!
this is waht makes reaper so great in lower ranks since you are best at getting an angle in a chaotic team fight
amazing video, you cooked
Thank you so much! Kitchen is in prestine condition!
like the video as always:D
Thanks for the love!
I feel like the goal of every Overwatch comp/match/teamfight is to surround your opponents before your team gets surrounded.
I think Dive and being a hero is based of the actions and the map... First thing that comes to mind is Dorado and Numbani First and Volskaya 2nd.
For me controlling at least 2 to 3 angles from what I've seen in OWL and OWCS and collapsing in, putting pressure on the enemy at once.
Not a bad take at all! Takes time to know exactly what situations to apply it in.
this is a fucking GOLD MINE of knowledge. thank you
30 minute upload 😍😍😍
also i wanted to make a suggestion;
i love that you go over more than just gameplay in the videos, including discussions . for the screenshots of quotes, where you use the white text over it, it got a bit hard to follow during long ones. i think bc of the text on text visual. maybe in the future, just doing a zoomed in scroll of the screenshot would be easier to read? so its just one image but we still get full sized reading? or whatever you find works the best, just wanted to offer my perspective🩷 keep up with the amazing content!!!
I'm only 26 minutes into the video, so forgive me if this is gone over in more detail, but as a cardgame player, I don't think the analogy was quite made right. To me, rush comps are like the aggro decks, brawl comps are like the midrange decks, dive is like a tempo deck, and poke is like a control deck. The phrase that stuck out in particular to me was "win through multiple win cons and skill expression;" control decidedly does not have multiple wincons. Poke's whole deal is to sit back and drain resources and deny value until they can win a teamfight. Rush comps are usually too fast for poke, and can do enough fast enough to deny their value being denied. Brawl comps can punish dives heavy enough to win some games, but that matchup is very skill dependant. The cardgame analogy is very apt, I just think we weren't quite right on which deck was which comp.
Truly have no idea, that was Cap's philosophy I don't know anything about card games.
Diggin the mgrr piano music
Thanks for reading the comments and using mine, very good video great drama.
great video
Appreciate the support!
can you link the VP vs EXO game? i cant seem to find it
thanks in advance!
Unfortunately this game is old and it wasn't streamed. I found the replay code using FaceIt but it is now expired. Sorry about that!
ahh thank you! no worries, great video as always @@coachwhistle264❤❤🙌
Tekuunnnoooooo, my goat.
Everyone's goat
I'm wondering then how brawl and poke work. I guess the reason you don't see poke as much at the higher level is because it more relies on the enemy making a mistake (overextending, peeking, etc.) rather than making the good outcome yourself (forcing an engagement). They both take angles but one waits and the other presses the issue.
Brawl is harder to think about, but I guess it's because it doesn't play well into dive? Like, all the angles means there's no one place to go and brawl that will win, and you're constantly between angles and therefore between threats. This is probably why Triple DPS could beat GOATS.
Of course, this is where the map comes in. If a map doesn't have that many angles, a different comp can thrive. If it has long sightlines (Circuit, etc.), poke can work, but if it doesn't, brawl will work.
I'm just a gold player tho ;)
So can I use mauga rollouts on Gibraltar offense as mauga? XD
Erm....
Peak video my good sir🫡
your videos motivate me to go grind comp and then i remember i’m hardstuck diamond and can’t get back to masters and i hate the game ❤
i think theres a BUNCH of complications to "dive" and thats where the confusion lies. when people hear "dive" they think "dive comp, dive heros, diving a target" when theres multiple different FORMS of dive as a term that muddies the definition of "dive" by itself.
theres DIVE tanks, which are tanks well versed in mobility, both vertically and horizontally.
theres BRAWL tanks, which CAN exceed in mobility, but ONLY horizontally,
POKE tanks are tanks that fight for picks before committing to a engage.(i will explain why i describe these two soon)
theres DIVE COMPS, which is a team of dive heros designed to jump the backline quickly,
then theres "DIVING A TARGET" which is the big confusing target because brawl, dive and even POKE in some situations co-ordinate dives. dive comp didn't get its name because its the "Diver" its called dive because dive heros SPECIFICALLY focus on diving a target as their main form of combat, where brawl and poke both have priorities besides just "dive the backline"
thats my opinion on it at least.
Completely valid opinion! I appreciate your take on things
Its rly not that complicated, dive is just an explosive playstyle that looks to burst down one target. It’s basically anything that isn’t a high sustain comp like poke/brawl and quasi bunker from ow1 I consider a hybrid dive/poke comp
Oh no you did NOT add death note music to your YT video. SUBSCRIBED
I have the all-star collection of nerd music in this vid
Overwat
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Ball is 100% a dive tank
watching as a plat player and all i can say is wow…
The pros really are impressive aren't they?
dive enjoyers are the most talented
Dive rein go HARad don’t sleep on it😂
so what maeve said was that dive is anglemaxxing?
basically if its not a braindead its prolly dive
dive isn't a composition, strategy, or a playstyle. it's a tactic. QED
So true
i think mauga needs wallclimb
Hey, I'm a Gold Rein main and I know he's a dive tank!
(0-19 hurts send help for my mental deficiencies)
dive, brawl, poke, aren't they all playstyles? i don't get it. almost every tank engages in some cycle of dive, brawl, poke throughout a match. just depends which one they lean more into lol
feel like a lot of EU/NA teams don't really play "true" dive as well, compared to asian teams
The premise is off. No one is running Dive Strategy with a deathball playstyle(gap close and frag out). The Strategy needs effective goals (eg. gap close and frag out) which inform the playstyle. The Strategy also needs heroes that can accomplish the goals and play the playstyle.
Trying to define Dive Strategy by its components misses the point. I'm glad people are talking about Dive though. It's my favorite kind of gameplay.
finally bro, i thought u were dead or sun, where tf u been?
Drowning in finals and this video alone took 50 hours to produce, sorry for the delay but I hope you like it!
I'm offended
monkey is dive and 0 other characters
im sorry, in what world is six man / zombie comp / whatever it was called rush? rush was used for rein lucio brawl comps
Rein/Lucio brawl is just that; brawl. Rush is a playstyle so sure those heroes can play rush but with like Sym and Mei and Bap you'll often be looking to play a lot more push/pull and play for sustain which isn't rush.
This Mauga/Juno/Brig comp we've been seeing is a rush comp. Once they engage the fight is won or lost right then and there, usually very quickly. Rein comps aren't really like that. The Orisa variant was a lot less rush and more pure brawl Imo.
Terraria music 👀
My videos are like a charcuterie board of nerdy music
Randomly got this video in my feed, and I'm always curious of others methods so I gave it a go :
I have to say good job for trying to explain overwatch concepts, it's far from easy especially if you're talking to casual players who are just interested to know more.
I have to say tho, that's it's looks insane to me to watch 30 min of someone explaining to me Dive, without talking about space and define it properly. Dive always has been a space control comp' and that's how we discovered it when it was first played in overwatch 1. People saying dive will always be meta (reference to capitology) when both JQ brawl and GOATs has been meta on OW 1 and OW 2 is also a bold take to say the least.
To me it's sadly impossible to talk properly about this kind of concepts without talking about angle, attention and position, the 3 composants of space itself. You finish by defining the best comp' at taking better angles than the enemy team to fight them. In this case, any poke comp' (what VP plays on Meka-Base) are also dive comp'.To me each comp' a defined by their win-condition (as you said what they do the best). Poke comp' will always be the best at taking angles, rush comp' will always be the best comp' to play for 1 position (first name of this was deah-ball, 4 tanks 2 supports for the old ones), and dive will always be the best comp' to play for attention.
Thinking that Dive has the "most answers" is true currently but it's just a direction the dev/balance team is taking, OW history proved than depending of what they make of the game, it would be completely different. There is maybe an argument tho, maybe all these names don't mean much in OW 2 even if they were totaly fine in OW 1, I say it again but when we discovered theses playstyles it was impossible to confuse them, you can't play an Orisa/Sigma the same way you played a Winston/DVA comp' or a Rein/Zarya comp' unless you started mirroring.
I'm old for OW and maybe my vision of the game might be too, and I won't make it longer by defining turns, number advantages, attention management, off-angle, flanking etc... But sadly I think that's a first step before trying to define entire gamestyles. Still interesting tho to hear from other coaches.
23:24 I hate that he said what I said
I was watching it with a friend and it was the same thing LOL
that ex oblivone icon looks like a swastika when its small, how did this happen? its so obvious
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I had no idea
@coachwhistle264 im sorry to be the one to tell you that
Rein is push, not dive.
Who is this for? It's been 10 minutes and you haven't said anything yet
I thought ocie was a male? Is ocie not, or why is ocie being called ”she” if ocie is a male?
🏳️⚧️
@ oh.. that makes sense
Ocie is a woman
i wont watch the whole vid bc its useless imo. rein is a dive tank yes if you watch players that are actually good with rein you know that with mei or lifweaver he can actually be a dive tank. also no dive isnt a comp its a playstyle wich is hella obvius that ppl need a explanation just showes how stupid the overwatch + battlepass players are. yes you need certain comps to play dive ( like with rein) but you can also play dps lucio does that mean lucio himself ( no other character) is a comp already ? ofc not idiot
@@trollduspat9034 malding to urself in the comments of a video u didn't watch bc u think its pointless is certainly.... something.. maybe touch grass?
@@bigbirdbirdbird funny i actually went on a walk after posting that comment maybe dont reverse your thinking ppl who play alot dont touch grass ppl like me who have a life actually do
@ im very proud of you!