On the Wen tracksaw, try removing the anti reverse lock knob(it's useless), replace the factory blade with any decent brand, and give the track a good film of glide coat. These few things took my saw up several notches in cut quality.
My wen tracksaw came with a 48T blade. Its actually pretty decent. I had a hard time finding another high tooth count 6.5in blade that wasn't rediculously expensive like the makita 56t blade.
First I would like to say I really enjoy your channel, & from what I've seen you are very gifted. Now with that said when I was 17 years old I started working with an old man doing interior trim, I worked for him for about 4 or 5 years "learned a lot from him" & then changed job's "doing the same thing" worked for a little larger outfit, "money talk's". I worked for them 7 or 8 years & then went to custom cabinet making, done that for about 18 years. So you can say I've got plenty of experience in woodworking, and I've gotta say Festool is absolutely stupidly way overpriced. I'll put my DeWalt, Milwaukee, & Makita beside it any day of the week. The tool isn't what makes the carpenter, the carpenter is what makes the tool.
From personal experience. Festool quality isn't about the finished product. They are about the consistency in the systems. They are the only company I have seen put a competent vacuum hose on a sander. Yes, the skills of the carpenter are what is most important, that being said, if within your budget, festool will make themselves worth your while.
@@777idkineedausername Exactly, Festool has the best eco system and most thought out features. The quality and precision is also unmatched for sure, however there are brands like Bosch Makita Milwaukee Dewalt etc. who make great tools. However the small things make the differences IMO, if you can afford the tools I`d definitely pick Festool. I chose Bosch Professional and I`m very happy, but I`m not a professional and dont use my tools 24/7.
I have had my festool extractor for 20 years and not even had to replace the filter once, i blow it out ..done. My saw, 1400 router, sander are all 8 years old and run as new. You make a valid point but festool stuff lasts and lasts.
I have commercial grade tools in my shop at about 80% and 20% (tools I only occasionally use) that are cheap or “throw away”. The commercial tools I own have anywhere from 40 years to 15 years of use with zero issues and still function like the day I purchased them. At the end of the day, most hobbyists and DIY’ers do not need commercial grade tools and, most pros I know use a small percentage of cheaper tools for the once in a while job like me. Great video and informative for those wanting to try their hand at woodworking. You can always upgrade once you figure out which tools you use the most. I have quite a few Harbor Freight items and for the money, they did the job just fine on occasional use.
So looks to me like if you're making your living using these tools full time, the festool is worthwhile. If you're a hobbyist or doing a lil side work, Wen is a pretty good deal.
However, making your living full time with Wen is not a bad proposition either. The only major downside you get is that they cannot compete in the cordless department, not even with Ryobi.
@@MrSoundChaos Honestly, just for ease of availability and product line, I'd go with DeWalt or Milwaukee for cordless. As nice as the festool? Probably not. Easier to find if you need a battery? Absolutely. Much cheaper too.
@@zamboughnutsthe argument for any particular company based on batteries anymore is a bunk argument as there are battery adapters to convert batteries to other tool platforms. You can have the best battery AND the best tool without compromise
I agree whole heartedly. I have never built a table that large and if I did, it would be a one-off. I do it for fun, not a business. So I can buy more of the Wen equipment.
@@liquidrockaquatics3900Battery adapters are wildly inefficient and can cause lots of issues with inconsistent voltages. Plenty of videos out there about this. You should avoid adapters whenever possible.
I own many Wen tools and have no complaints with any of them, I like that they are local to me as well. Their customer service is great and very knowledgeable on their tools and the prices are nice for a beginner.
As an amateur woodworker with limited funds for expensive tools, I really appreciate that you make videos like this. I have always felt bad about not being able to buy the really high-end tools but hearing from a professional that the WEN is just as good is so awesome!
Don’t ever feel bad about it at all. It’s great when you can afford the one you really want/ need like a m18 portable table saw for job sites or their 1/2 inch impact wrench. Ryobi, Bauer, wen, worx, skil, hart, even hyper tough make 8/10 quality tools. I’ve spent like $500-600 on Milwaukee shop vacs which bit the dust pretty quick for no idea at all. I really don’t abuse my tools cause they’re expensive . My $50 ryobi shop vac works every damn time like a champ and I used it a lot daily for 2 or 3 months after the Milwaukee vacs gave out. Customer service was garbage for Milwaukee and other people have mentioned the same thing for their shop vacs after I purchased them. Hurts your soul when you waste $500 on “top quality tools” only to Be bested by $50 diy tools.
I'm good friends with a bunch of TTI reps and they all say Ryobi is a wonderful brand and can handle a lot. Remember, they're all under the same umbrella(minus DeWalt and Kobalt). I love my Ryobi,but I'm not a full time GC. These vids just solidify my opinion on buying what works for you,not for everyone else.
Features are the same festool just remove little annoyances and deepen build quality for something that stands up to professional use time after time. As a hobBies t you dont need that (you might like it but thats not the same thing )
Another thing with the sanders is going to be the long term effects of vibration to your hands/wrists. The higher-end sanders are much better at lessening fatigue over a longer usage time than the cheaper ones.
Yes! That Festool is the most relaxing sander I have ever used and I tried many, including the most expensive ones from Bosch, Makita, Dewalt and the other top dawg in the game, the Mirka Deros. The Festool wiped it's a... the floor with all of them when it came to long time fatigue. Especially if you have to sand vertical surfaces and narrow edges, the balance is just incomparable.
@@PikkaBird I just wish Festool wasn't so scummy on proprietary expensive replacement parts... $55 for a replacement sanding pad, $70 for a dust collection hose? I wouldn't mind paying more for the tool if they offered better DIY repair options.
I hate he did not talk about the vibration difference in the sanders I have a dewalt and craftsman random orbital palm sanders and finally broke down and bought my first festool tool it was a palm sander and the vibration it puts into your hand vs my other 2 is worlds apart
Why? That doesn't make any sense at all. I'd define the tools in different category. Other one is professional tool and other is hobbyist/starter tool. It's like riding some +5000 dollar electric bike and after month you'd ride cheap market bike and then asked to tell findings. Isn't too hard to figure out end result 🙂
I agree with you 100% regarding bang for the buck. I’ve used the big box wood working tools for years and finally over time became a Festool fan boy. Yup they’re $$ but I enjoy the step up in quality of results when using Festool. Just trying to be an azz and say not too many pros would replace their high dollar tools with budget priced ones. Really enjoy your show! Keep them coming.
Only ever owned the Wen track saw so can’t compare it to anything else but I can say that my biggest gripes with it would be power in thicker material, dust collection, and lack of accuracy on the bevel cut. I mostly am using it to break down plywood and straightline rip and edge on S2S lumber and I work exclusively outside so these haven’t been an issue that I’ve needed to go out and fix and for $100 for the saw and roughly that for 110 inches of Powertech tracks, it’s been invaluable for the hobbyist in me. If you’re just looking to breakdown plywood and 4/4 materials making 90 degree cuts, it’s well worth the savings. Also noticed for plywood that it greatly benefits from an aftermarket thin kerf blade. I’ve noticed a significant boost in power with one installed vs the standard kerf blade.
This is a good comment. My Wen tracksaw is almost exclusively used for sheet goods and I never bevel cut those. I also have the Powertec tracks (which are excellent for the price). The dust collection absolutely is terrible but it is still better than using a circular saw, and since I always work alone the track saw is also better for my back than trying to wrangle full 4x8 sheets onto the table saw repeatedly. Even if my Wen burns out after a year I can still buy another several before I hit the cost of a saw with more longevity and better warranty. The only time I'd saw the Wen might be more trouble than the higher-cost options is if you take the saw to job sites (I don't work outside the shop) then a cordless option in the battery universe of your other tools is probably worth the extra expense.
@@BrentNeal1979 100% agree. I’m in a very similar situation and use my saw the same. Much better than a circular saw and I’ve had it for 3 years now and it still runs fine so we’ll worth the money.
hey... I'm not even in a woodworking business but your delivery is so smooth n' interesting and the videos in themselves are so well done, I'm watching all of your stuff anyways, man! You're such a great presenter it's uncanny. Keep up your great work, man, absolutely loving it.
I'm with you guys, tool nut and appliance technician by day, love wrenching on my hotrods and have been known to let the Wife talk me into an occasional woodworking project. Soon I'll be building a fairly complex desk.
The fact that you are a professional builder and still have a track saw, that is so old, that Festool no longer makes them, tells you all you need to know about the price. For a long time, I've been sick of electric tools and stuff breaking after the gurantee is expired. I hate planned obsolescence so freaking much. That is why I always spend money on stuff, in the hope that it will last. Bosch blue, Festool, and in general stuff that is designed for and used in professional enviroments. To this day, this strategy hasn't let me down. And even tho the initial costs suck alot, working with high end tools always makes me smile. Btw, the Festool sander is just insanely good.
One huge detail that you didn’t highlight enough with the Festool track saw is that you’ve likely had that tool for over a decade, and it is still performing at top quality levels. I think it is important even for people on a budget to consider tool-life/warranties
I think the reason why he didn't highlight that part was that he was expressing a diffrent view point all together.. He was looking at it as someone new thats just starting out that dosent have much tools or money, that these would absolutely be a good tool to give you the ability to get your first few projects finished and make some money and upgrade to better tools instead of having to spend thousands before getting started and no way to make that kind of money to do so... I completely understand that thinking.. but i also agree with you that there is no way they will last for a long time and that you better do what you gotta do at 1st but dont rely on them and expect to upgrade asap...
@@anthonyevans1399 I mean, heck, even if you're not just starting out, if you need a track saw, unless you're a pro or planning on becoming a pro, I don't see why you wouldn't get the wen, unless you can afford the festool for a couple of projects a year.
you are right, i got everything a-brand. all same batteries etc. but if u probably gonna use it a few times only in your life u dont need a fancy expansive longlife tool.
By no means am I a professional woodworker. I've always just made do with whatever tools my dad has accumulated over the years, mostly big box store stuff. Just my opinion, but I think if you're a hobbyist just making stuff for yourself, and friends and family maybe, I don't really see the point in spending that much money on Festool. Unless of course you have a massive disposable income. I usually get pretty decent results with budget tools if I take my time and pay attention to detail. Plus there's plenty of upgrades you can make to budget tools, like higher quality blades, bits, etc. There is one exception however, and that's a SawStop table saw. We had one in my high school woodshop and I've seen it save peoples fingers on 2 different occasions. I do hope to own one of those some day.
Saw Stops are quality machines. Table saws are downright dangerous. There's no two ways around it. That said I've never had an accident using one ever. That's because when I use a table saw I'm careful. I like all my fingers. So I don't think being careful is unreasonable.
Yeah Festool are Pro Grade tools, not something to use if you're not making money with them. (You can if you want, Not gonna tell people how to live, just sayin.) 100% agree with the Saw Stop.
@@1pcfred Doesn't stop me from wanting one. If I'm looking for a new table saw and can get one for not much more than a normal type, Guess what one ima pick.
@@dragoonpreston3 if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. The table saw I'm using I bought at a garage sale. Now maybe you can luck out and find a Saw Stop used for cheap. But I've never seen or even heard of one. So you're limiting yourself severely by hoping. I certainly got really lucky with the saw I have. It still actually happened though.
I have the Wen 1065 track saw with the 110" rails. I upgraded the stock blade to the Wen 56 tooth blade. I also got the Wittworks arbor plug so dust collection is really pretty good (totally recommend getting one). I have been more than happy with my Wen Track Saw which I use solely for breaking down sheet goods. Enjoyed the test comparisons. As a retired hobbyist the Festool stuff is outside my budget!
My first track was the WEN. It definitely got the job done but didn’t last. Now I am also a Festool fan boy and the main reason is the 3 year warranty. Just sent back my sander got it back in a week and it is the best service I have had from any tool company. Great content John.
As starter tools WEN is awesome. I have used some of their stuff I knew was going to be “once in a blue moon” usage. Their bench top sanders are just as good as more pricey brands. Drill press is worth it for how often I honestly use it, straight with no wobble . I also have the air filter, it works great.
The festool has a riving knife for kickback and an extra tiny blade for tearout. It does better on angled cuts as well. Kreg is a nice middle ground. Remember, great tools can offset skill for newer woodworkers. However, for the price point Wen makes a killer product. Great video. Be safe all!
That appeared to be a fair and honest review and comparison of two 'like for like' tools. I would agree that for someone on a limited budget, just starting out, spending mega bucks on top end tools may be out of reach. It's nice to see that there are perfectly acceptable tools on the market for a more affordable price. One thing that you haven't been able to consider in this review is how well they stand up to extended use. WHat deterioration, if any, might there be in the cheaper tool after 6 months of use? Will it break? These would also be considerations that add to the affordability equation. You've had the Festool items for a long time, but they still work. Will the Wen tools still be working as well this time next year if used in the same way as the Festools?
Also sound and vibration. If you spend time on larger projects, comfort becomes worth a lot, and it's one of the reasons I absolutely adore my festool sanders.
I have never been disappointed with WEN tools. Glad you gave the demonstration. I wanted a track saw and was looking at Festool and just couldn’t justify it. I’ll be getting one from WEN in a couple of weeks.
I have that Wen orbital sander, and I love it. Yes it has a lot of vibration that makes your hand tingle after, but that’s nothing you can’t almost eliminate with gel padded gloves to absorb the vibrations. I can also attest to how long it takes to sand, but so far I haven’t built anything large enough for that time to really matter.
I was surprised that he didn't mention anything about vibration. From my experience its specifically that which makes the biggest difference and it really affects in long used tool like orbital sander. Something that you'll feel after the work.
"i have had this for YEARS", cant reccomend... that is why festool cost more. they are built for regular heavy use. i doubt you would get as much use of a cheaper one.
Micro adjust is great when you get a stack of plywood, and you can set the exact depth of the cut so you can cut on top of the other sheets without sliding bearers under the sheet before cutting.
I have both of those track saws. I make a lot of 8/4 red oak table tops and the Wen has a lot of trouble cutting through without doing 3 or 4 passes, but the Festool can do it in one. The power difference is worth the money, IMO.
I would say the power difference is sometimes worth the price. Depends on how often the tool gets used, and if the time saved is worth the price to you.
Yeah...but you could get the same amount of power difference from a Makita, Bosch, Dewalt, etc. Without spending ~$800+. Just saying. It's not like it's either Wen or Festool.
I have to say that I have a special affection for wen and other cheap brands but especially for wen because it fed me for many years, in addition to the fact that the black color on the tool looks quite good
The Wen router has a dust collection plate (clear panel that installs on those two bolt holes on the sled and attach to your vacuum line) but you left it in the box.
Yeah it seems like it has a connection for dust collection, it's on the opposite side of where you hold it, on the top of the router. There's a big hole in it lmao
I stumbled upon Wen searching for a new Wood Lathe after having purchased a used one and loved it so much. The price was on point, and for a beginner it was a bit rough. It would stall a lot due to me not knowing how to keep my chisels properly sharpened, and trying to take too deep of a pass. This was actually advantageous for me as it taught me proper technique after using for a while. Currently up to 4 lathes, 2 different Wen, a Shop Fox and a early 90s Ryobi. The Wens hold up to the Shop Fox no problem. I recommend Wen Tools for hobbyists, people on a budget, and if you are new to a certain type of tool and want to find out if it's worth it to you to get the premium brands. Almost always better than Harbor Freight pieces (at least in every instance where I can honestly compare). Honestly, Wen is great. I have yet to be disappointed.
Just finished the track saw battle. You said you've had the festool for years. You have probably maybe thousands of cuts with the Festool. The WEN will be replaced 10 times in the same time frame.
I got a WEN rotary tool with case & a bunch of tools for like $18.50 on Amazon. I've used it to modify many folding knives in price ranges up to $1,000+, & it's worked like a champ for a couple years now already. Love it, just used it today!
I've been a framing carpenter for 2 deacdes, still in property management but I've been slowly getting a shop together to do furniture and wood crafts. I'll agree with many of the posts in that what's the tool going to be down the road (I'm ingrained in the you get what you pay for mindset). BUT, I do appreciate cheap that works now that I'm buying shop tools over jobsite tools I already have. And these days, any break is a good break. I say buy cheap, take care of the equipment and make some money, then upgrade. Thanks for the info :-)
The sander comparison is missing one crucial point, how much does the sander vibrate. Most of the time when I do sanding I end up sanding for 1 hour + and there it makes a very big difference how much you feel the vibration of the tool in your hand. I did use some cheaper sanders and my hand almost felt numb after I was done
@@1pcfred Vibrations can definitely cause long-term damage to nerves and blood vessels. People working assembly lines, jack hammers, chainsaws etc are supposed to get a 10 minute break per hour of vibratory tool use in order to prevent damage. I have permanent nerve damage and its pretty terrible. For DIY home use, it would be hard to get damaged, but if you do any of this kind of stuff professionally with bad tools, you're at risk.
The problem with these types of comparisons is longevity. The Wen stuff is probably going to be Ok the first few times you use them. But plastic, and sometimes aluminum, parts are going to wear out and lose tolerance. You have to use these tools long-term to determine if they are actually worth it.
This point exactly! My Festool TS55 EQ I got it in June of 2006, so it is coming up on 18 years old, it still runs like a champ. Yes it was expensive, I paid about $800 for it with two tracks shipped from Canada because here in Tokyo they wanted over $2000 for just the saw, no tracks 😵 I'm a General Contractor here in Tokyo and I've used that saw to cut miles and miles of stock, kitchen panel, etc and it never misses a beat. Back in 2006 they really were the only game in town, now there are many options. If I was just starting out, I'd buy the WEN track saw but I'd also understand that I'm not going to get 18 years of use out of it, and that's fine. Great video, keep them up!
As much as I hate to admit it, I have some Wen tools that I bought just to see how they were (and more than likely make fun of them, lol). They've honestly been holding up quite well, much to my surprise. That said, I still much prefer my other tools.
honestly that doesn’t sound like a big enough negative to me. if someone is using these cheap tools enough for durability to be a concern then by the time they break they’ll be looking for a nicer one anyways. i always live by the philosophy that i don’t buy the nice tool until i’ve used the cheap one enough to warrant it.
@@joncue0304 nothing wrong with buying some cheap tools, they can do the job. I too have some WEN tools, the ambient air cleaner that runs in my workshop to get small suspended particulates out of the air, and a small metal cutting band saw that I’ve modified and is actually not bad.
@@tri-tri-again Yep, I’m not going to disagree with you, but now I rely on my tools too much to not factor in the durability and reliability. For a guy starting out, sure cheap tools can get you going, but they are not usually an option for a professional who is paying his mortgage and putting food on the table with them. YMMV
I make money with my WEN track saw all the time. Haven’t had a single issue with it, in the 3 years that I’ve owned it. Very good video John. Love your stuff.
For me on the sanders, just going from DeWalt to Festool, was having feeling in my hand after sanding desktop. So, for me the extra money spent on the sander is well worth it
This is a very important point. Vibrations can cause a lot of problems that should be avoided. For a professional getting the tool with the least vibrations and the best dust collection will increase quality of life. For a home user using the tool a few times a year perhaps not a big problem. I think in a lot of these cases the safety and health parts are missed.
That festool jigsaw looks awesome. I can see if your doing site work install cabinets or kitchens that must be a game changer for things like scribe cuts. Dont most people use those festool jigsaw upside down with a down cutting blade?
I returned the Went tracksaw the day I bought it. It wouldn't handle cherry slabs even with an aftermarket blade. I bought the Makita and have been super happy.
Just used my Wen to rip 8/4 rock maple with the stock blade. Used to make a reference cut before passing through the table saw and eventually the jointer. I've cut thousands of feet with this saw and no issues. Rounded the edges with the WEN router and a 1/4 roundover bit. These WEN tools are pretty decent for the money. I own much more expensive versions of the same, but love how good these are for the money. And more importantly love how none of these walk off the worksite because guys think these are just another cheap tool.
When i upgraded to a festool rotex 150, my workflow was so much more efficient that it was immediately noticeable. I can put all my weight over the rotex and take my feet off the floor and it'll just keep going. I'd bet a large sum of money that the Wen would stop dead or explode. And I do the same kind of builds that you do, but for real paying clients, not youtube. So time really does matter, as does the quality of the finished product. The finish is a billion times better than inferior sanders which is super important. Same is true for their big router being better than other equivalents on the market and the domino machine is obviously the gold standard, I thick we can all agree on that. From my 25+ years of experience in the game, cheap tools like the Wen are for hobbyists only, they don't have the build quality or longevity of the more expensive machines. If you're a serious woodworker and do this day in day out, quality pays for itself in days or months, not years.
Lol I bought a WEN jig saw on a whim and I love the thing, it was dirt cheap and works great, love the lazer thing as well, seems gimmicky but it does help. Regarding routers, yeah don't cheap out, the Festool is definitely overkill for most people but Bosch and Dewalt both make incredible plunge+fixed base routers that will be perfect for 99% of people.
Great video. For tools, as a VERY intermediate DIYer, home owner and 2 badly herniated vertebrates proprietor, I always look for 3 things in my tools: 1 - Ergonomics (weight, size, vibration, etc.) 2 - Power (speed, strength, batteries, etc) 3 - Time-saving ability. I can't work in awkward positions or bent for more then a few minutes, so I won't mind paying $200 CAD for a tool that'll be used for 5 minutes 4 times a year if ot saves me 1 week of painkillers, 4 weeks of phycical therapy and 7 weeks with no income. Here's an example: I recently did my brother's pickup breaks and oil change. I could have used a simple set of ratchets and spend 20 to 30 minutes per wheels and an other 10 for the oil (remember: "broken back"), or I could buy an electric ratchet and an impact wrench amd spend 3 minutes per wheels and 2 for the oil. Sometimes, it's not how much a tool will earn you, but how much it'll save you. Like John said in his video: At how much do you value your time?
This is it. I am a weekend DIY kind of guy, and frankly won't use a track saw enough in the odd things I do to warrant the higher end model. It all boils down to need versus investment.
Basically any ONE of the Festools cost more than my entire household (including car) of stuff. Granted the car was more expensive when I bought it, it ain't got a lot of value now. Living on SocSec is a limitation that many of us have.
Excellent review. I've watched quite a few cheap vs premium tool comparisons, and I enjoyed your down to earth, does it do the job approach. I'd have to agree regarding the sander. Sanding is no fun, and usually takes a lifetime. Personally, my priority regarding sanding, was comfort. I bought the Bosch - can't recall offhand which model, but it cost around £400 sterling, and came with the anti-vibration doofer. After using a standard orbital sander, it was literally night and day. Superb dust extraction, and extreme comfort - you can hold it lightly with 3 fingers, and it does not bounce around all over the place, vibrating all the way up to your brain. Got to say, though, I'd love the beefy router! I've got plenty of smaller quarter inch routers and trim routers, but only one, fairly basic half inch job. I only use it with a worktop jig for mason's mitres, so can't complain. The tracksaw looks an awful lot like a similar version available here in the UK, and I'm sure it is just fine for most mortals who are not building pianos. I plunged for the Makita, as it was on a special. At the time I bought it, 2016, it cost around £420 with two 55 inch tracks, two blades, a Makpak, and a carry bag for the tracks. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your experience with these tools.
Festool and Woodpecker have both reslized that they can make a good product but charge an absurd amount of money for them because people LOVE status symbols
It’s not just a status symbol though.. it’s a better product. You get what you pay for. This cheap crap wouldn’t last more than a year under heavy use and that’s not even mentioning the fact that they work better too.
your math is weired... if you charge 50 bucks an hour and sand 3 hours you make 150, if you sand 1 hour you make 50.... so, IF you bill by the hour the more expensive sander makes you less money ;)
@@Onewheelordeal thats why i dislike billing by the hour but rather think of an overall price.. its just the way john argues makes my comment the logical conclusion ;) not saying thats the way to go
I think that you and Project Farm are my favorite tool review channels. Different methodology and style, but very in depth. Looks like the main difference between these guys basically boils down to how much time you're gonna spend finishing off the project. I'd rather take my time. If I know I can go fast, I'll try, and that produces sloppy work. That router is nuts.
Wen is a great brand for deciding if you want a tool. Thinking about a plunge router? Get a Wen find out if it works for you, when you wear it out get the festool. I got a Wen Lathe, used it. Sold it and then bought a big Nova Lathe. I found out I loved Woodturning, found out what I wanted in a lathe from the Wen and got the Nova. Also if you need something you won’t use a lot, Wen is a winner there as well.
i'm a residential remodeling contractor... i've been in construction for 35 years and have never seen festool nor wen on any jobsite. while i am familiar with both names since i have shopped at both amazon & rockler, i've never owned either brand. still, mildly interesting video. thumbs up! ...should add that i do have an $800 track saw but it's for jumbo format tile
The jigsaw is definitely used professionally a lot. For example I use it quite a bit in flooring for round cuts (radiator hoses, round walls etc.). Even though I tend to use my exakt saw with dust extraction for basically every straight cut, I definitely love how clean I can make the round cuts with a good quality blade in my trusty makita.
34 yrs in the trade, started with festool 8 yrs back. The grip is my thing. Done most brands and I will most likley end my time with festool, precision, service and I could go on... One setback is cost, well less hazzle do cost. Mid range brands last half way against festool, cheap range well you might get lucky 😃 Hilti, Mafell is others that sometimes are better. Cash are short sometimes, we all know that i guess. Good rewiev 👌
I have a few Wen tools including the router that you tested. I absolutely love it. I mainly use it for flattening slabs though. Hasn’t put me wrong yet. Keeps eating non stop.
I have all Festool as well, the biggest thing for me is the accessories… so many useful things you can buy. It’s also a lot cleaner in general, which when you work in an expensive house you don’t want to be making a big stupid mess. If you’re a carpenter or home builder you should only be buying these tools. They last, they can take a beating, they will make you more money.
The wen might stack up well against the age old ts55, but i wonder how it stacks up against the new ts60. Things an absolute unite. And it would be interesing to see, how the wen looks after 1 or 2 years of use. I slowly aquire festool and mafell power Tools for myself, because i l know i can give them to the next genration once my time has come :)
You have to make a video building something using only vintage power tools and hand tools from like 1970s on down. I don't think I've seen any RUclipsr craftsman using only vintage tools. I'm sure it'll give you flashbacks of your childhood 👍🏻
Great video! Very informative. Really enjoy your straightforward, no-BS presentation style. Kind of surprised at the results - especially coming from someone who is admittedly a Festool fanboy. One thing I would have liked to see (where possible) is using the same blades/bits for both tools in each comparison. One last thing- for the price, that Festool router should do your laundry.
I picked up the wen tracksaw when it went on sale. I went in knowing that I was probably only going to use it for breaking down plywood and wouldn't do any angle cuts. So far, I haven't even taken it out of the box, but this definitely makes me feel better about the purchase. I already had a few wen tools that I was very happy with. bandsaw, drill press, oscillating sander, and now a dust collector. So far my only complaint about any is from the band saw. the t-track is very small and standard things wont fit it. like the bow featherboard.
John, great video and very informative for a beginner. My request for future videos would be: Can you compare jointers under $600? I know there are so many options and it's hard to choose one between 6-8 inches that is worth the money! Help!
As for jigsaws I would put my Austrian made Bosch circa 1988 up against ANY other jigsaw. FYI, a well lit shop requires no built-in light. However: stroke speed, chip extraction and blade kick are paramount.
I use a lot of both of these brands. For what I do Wen is fine on everything I just have more fun using the Festool….less vibration, less noise etc but I’ve never had failures or problems with my wen stuff….its just not “tight”
I think a Build Video using only Wen tools would be awesome and im sure others will agree! (Bonus if you can include a wen jointer and a planer as well!) Especially given the fact that for most people on a lower budget, Wen seems to be there go-to. Seen lots of people with Wen 8 inch spiral head jointer or the Wen planer
We're knocking up a new cabin on some land and I'm running the Wen Tracksaw as my 'table saw' on the job. Basic as hell but it's been more portable/as capable.
As someone just getting started in the craft to do when I retire in 7 years, I would love to start with the cheap tools. But i understand why you have what you have.
You and a friend should build the same project, one only using cheap tools and one expensive. To see if they hold up and if one shows any major improvement. Thanks and God bless you and your family !!!
One of the things to consider also is the ability of the smaller sander to get into more places. I also think that the location of the speed control slider on the Festool has less chance of being moved by accident.
But then, I have a ton of Harbor Freight tools too. They have lasted me for 20 years. I have the 20V drill and impact driver in Black and Decker. They are 9 years old.
My shop is 8x12 feet and have no room for the bigger stuff. I built a ramp on it and built carts for my bigger machines, the planer, jointer, table saw and band saw. I roll them outside to use them and have room in the shop.
For the stuff that I build (small furniture, lamps, etc. for myself or as gifts for friends) power tools within a low & medium price range are good enough, for professionals who make a living for example with wood working it's in my opinion necessary to have (expensive) professional tools ... longer life span, often 24hr on-site replacement within the period of warranty, etc. Only thing what I noticed with my "cheap" tools is that for example quality saw blades, drill bits, etc. make a huge difference in the quality of work (since the included stuff is most of the time more or less scrap ... if something is included at all).
On the track saw. The Wen had a definite power drain while cutting, enough that you mentioned it. I feel over the years this will result in a failure. I use the Milwaukia and I am happy with it; cheaper tracks can be had by off brands that work fine with it. On the router, I don't think I could ever say any router would be the last one I buy; there just isn't any single router that is perfect for the whole shop task regiment. GP, you just can't beat the workhorse Porter Cable 690, I own 7. For power and variability in a table, the Titan(but I feel DeWalt, PC, and a few others would fit here as well) my titan has durability written all over it and is a beast. I do shelves a lot, a great pin router is the Makita trim router with a plunge, amazing light, powerful and dependable router. For ease of use and GP edging, Milwaukia M18( yes I will be buying the new big one). So while I respect your opinion, I have to disagree with the blank aspect of it. Too many jobs better suited for a multitude of variation in tools. Thanks for the vid, as usual it was a pleasure to watch.
I picked up a Wen track saw, but got the PowerTek tracks with it instead. I figure when the Wen eventually does kick the bucket, I can look into a slightly nicer saw.
Both tools are good. One is great for professional use and position.The when is good for me. I don’t do professional woodworking projects every day. I do basic stuff professor was good as well. Have a great Sunday.
I have the wen track saw for breaking down sheet material and it’s been great, definitely like you said not as tight and smooth and needs more tweaking to get strait and the angle cuts take a lot more to set up strait but bang for buck it’s been great.
Regarding the sanders, how does the vibration level compare between the two? That’s the biggest difference I’ve found between the Festool sanders and the consumer grade ones. I can sand comfortably for a long time with the Festool, whereas my hand and arm are tingling after much less time with the cheaper machines. That and the noise level - I’m very impressed with how quiet the Festool is. I agree with your conclusion that the Festool is worth the extra $$, but would almost consider it a squared function - less vibration for a lot less time far increases the value IMO.
Building some intricate piece of furniture with all WEN and TEMU tools!
This is what we need
I agree, because I've also said this on another video of John's before! 😆
Followed by doing the same with Harbor Freight tools
My dad's tools from the 80s mainly old craftsman. I have gotten wen jointer works great. Festool fan boys ick
@@cablrus1885The old craftsman tools were great. Wen makes decent tools.
On the Wen tracksaw, try removing the anti reverse lock knob(it's useless), replace the factory blade with any decent brand, and give the track a good film of glide coat. These few things took my saw up several notches in cut quality.
Does it fit any brand? All the track saws I've seen use a 20mm arbor
My wen tracksaw came with a 48T blade. Its actually pretty decent. I had a hard time finding another high tooth count 6.5in blade that wasn't rediculously expensive like the makita 56t blade.
5oo
@@SpartanORGN Mine came with a 24 tooth, it's okay for plywood and softwood. I picked up a Oshlun 56t blade.
@@charlesw.3245 I also got the cordless Wen, not the corded.
First I would like to say I really enjoy your channel, & from what I've seen you are very gifted.
Now with that said when I was 17 years old I started working with an old man doing interior trim, I worked for him for about 4 or 5 years "learned a lot from him" & then changed job's "doing the same thing" worked for a little larger outfit, "money talk's".
I worked for them 7 or 8 years & then went to custom cabinet making, done that for about 18 years. So you can say I've got plenty of experience in woodworking, and I've gotta say Festool is absolutely stupidly way overpriced. I'll put my DeWalt, Milwaukee, & Makita beside it any day of the week.
The tool isn't what makes the carpenter, the carpenter is what makes the tool.
THANK YOU!!!!!!
From personal experience. Festool quality isn't about the finished product. They are about the consistency in the systems. They are the only company I have seen put a competent vacuum hose on a sander.
Yes, the skills of the carpenter are what is most important, that being said, if within your budget, festool will make themselves worth your while.
@@777idkineedausername Exactly, Festool has the best eco system and most thought out features. The quality and precision is also unmatched for sure, however there are brands like Bosch Makita Milwaukee Dewalt etc. who make great tools. However the small things make the differences IMO, if you can afford the tools I`d definitely pick Festool. I chose Bosch Professional and I`m very happy, but I`m not a professional and dont use my tools 24/7.
Festool is absolutely worth it if you are into fine details and getting them consistently
I have had my festool extractor for 20 years and not even had to replace the filter once, i blow it out ..done.
My saw, 1400 router, sander are all 8 years old and run as new.
You make a valid point but festool stuff lasts and lasts.
I have commercial grade tools in my shop at about 80% and 20% (tools I only occasionally use) that are cheap or “throw away”. The commercial tools I own have anywhere from 40 years to 15 years of use with zero issues and still function like the day I purchased them. At the end of the day, most hobbyists and DIY’ers do not need commercial grade tools and, most pros I know use a small percentage of cheaper tools for the once in a while job like me. Great video and informative for those wanting to try their hand at woodworking. You can always upgrade once you figure out which tools you use the most. I have quite a few Harbor Freight items and for the money, they did the job just fine on occasional use.
So looks to me like if you're making your living using these tools full time, the festool is worthwhile. If you're a hobbyist or doing a lil side work, Wen is a pretty good deal.
However, making your living full time with Wen is not a bad proposition either. The only major downside you get is that they cannot compete in the cordless department, not even with Ryobi.
@@MrSoundChaos Honestly, just for ease of availability and product line, I'd go with DeWalt or Milwaukee for cordless. As nice as the festool? Probably not. Easier to find if you need a battery? Absolutely. Much cheaper too.
@@zamboughnutsthe argument for any particular company based on batteries anymore is a bunk argument as there are battery adapters to convert batteries to other tool platforms. You can have the best battery AND the best tool without compromise
I agree whole heartedly. I have never built a table that large and if I did, it would be a one-off. I do it for fun, not a business. So I can buy more of the Wen equipment.
@@liquidrockaquatics3900Battery adapters are wildly inefficient and can cause lots of issues with inconsistent voltages. Plenty of videos out there about this. You should avoid adapters whenever possible.
I own many Wen tools and have no complaints with any of them, I like that they are local to me as well. Their customer service is great and very knowledgeable on their tools and the prices are nice for a beginner.
As an amateur woodworker with limited funds for expensive tools, I really appreciate that you make videos like this. I have always felt bad about not being able to buy the really high-end tools but hearing from a professional that the WEN is just as good is so awesome!
If you can get the same result with cheaper tools then there's no problem
Don’t ever feel bad about it at all. It’s great when you can afford the one you really want/ need like a m18 portable table saw for job sites or their 1/2 inch impact wrench. Ryobi, Bauer, wen, worx, skil, hart, even hyper tough make 8/10 quality tools. I’ve spent like $500-600 on Milwaukee shop vacs which bit the dust pretty quick for no idea at all. I really don’t abuse my tools cause they’re expensive . My $50 ryobi shop vac works every damn time like a champ and I used it a lot daily for 2 or 3 months after the Milwaukee vacs gave out. Customer service was garbage for Milwaukee and other people have mentioned the same thing for their shop vacs after I purchased them. Hurts your soul when you waste $500 on “top quality tools” only to Be bested by $50 diy tools.
I'm good friends with a bunch of TTI reps and they all say Ryobi is a wonderful brand and can handle a lot. Remember, they're all under the same umbrella(minus DeWalt and Kobalt). I love my Ryobi,but I'm not a full time GC. These vids just solidify my opinion on buying what works for you,not for everyone else.
Professional is a stretch for John in the woodworking world. 🙂
Features are the same festool just remove little annoyances and deepen build quality for something that stands up to professional use time after time. As a hobBies t you dont need that (you might like it but thats not the same thing )
I can’t even afford all the plywood you’re wasting!! 😂😂😂
Another thing with the sanders is going to be the long term effects of vibration to your hands/wrists. The higher-end sanders are much better at lessening fatigue over a longer usage time than the cheaper ones.
Concur. I will always pay more to get less vibration.
You find that out more as you get older and start getting arthritis in your hands. High vibration sanders can make your hands ache for days.
Yes! That Festool is the most relaxing sander I have ever used and I tried many, including the most expensive ones from Bosch, Makita, Dewalt and the other top dawg in the game, the Mirka Deros. The Festool wiped it's a... the floor with all of them when it came to long time fatigue. Especially if you have to sand vertical surfaces and narrow edges, the balance is just incomparable.
@@PikkaBird I just wish Festool wasn't so scummy on proprietary expensive replacement parts... $55 for a replacement sanding pad, $70 for a dust collection hose? I wouldn't mind paying more for the tool if they offered better DIY repair options.
I hate he did not talk about the vibration difference in the sanders I have a dewalt and craftsman random orbital palm sanders and finally broke down and bought my first festool tool it was a palm sander and the vibration it puts into your hand vs my other 2 is worlds apart
As a test, use only Wen equipment, none of your Festool equipment, for a month on everything you produce in your shop and then report your findings.
Why? That doesn't make any sense at all. I'd define the tools in different category. Other one is professional tool and other is hobbyist/starter tool. It's like riding some +5000 dollar electric bike and after month you'd ride cheap market bike and then asked to tell findings. Isn't too hard to figure out end result 🙂
I agree with you 100% regarding bang for the buck. I’ve used the big box wood working tools for years and finally over time became a Festool fan boy. Yup they’re $$ but I enjoy the step up in quality of results when using Festool. Just trying to be an azz and say not too many pros would replace their high dollar tools with budget priced ones. Really enjoy your show! Keep them coming.
@jothain your logic is wrong.
@@CidFFVII How come?
If the difference isn't going to be as obvious up front you need a long term test for durability
Only ever owned the Wen track saw so can’t compare it to anything else but I can say that my biggest gripes with it would be power in thicker material, dust collection, and lack of accuracy on the bevel cut. I mostly am using it to break down plywood and straightline rip and edge on S2S lumber and I work exclusively outside so these haven’t been an issue that I’ve needed to go out and fix and for $100 for the saw and roughly that for 110 inches of Powertech tracks, it’s been invaluable for the hobbyist in me. If you’re just looking to breakdown plywood and 4/4 materials making 90 degree cuts, it’s well worth the savings. Also noticed for plywood that it greatly benefits from an aftermarket thin kerf blade. I’ve noticed a significant boost in power with one installed vs the standard kerf blade.
This is a good comment. My Wen tracksaw is almost exclusively used for sheet goods and I never bevel cut those. I also have the Powertec tracks (which are excellent for the price). The dust collection absolutely is terrible but it is still better than using a circular saw, and since I always work alone the track saw is also better for my back than trying to wrangle full 4x8 sheets onto the table saw repeatedly. Even if my Wen burns out after a year I can still buy another several before I hit the cost of a saw with more longevity and better warranty. The only time I'd saw the Wen might be more trouble than the higher-cost options is if you take the saw to job sites (I don't work outside the shop) then a cordless option in the battery universe of your other tools is probably worth the extra expense.
@@BrentNeal1979 100% agree. I’m in a very similar situation and use my saw the same. Much better than a circular saw and I’ve had it for 3 years now and it still runs fine so we’ll worth the money.
@@BrentNeal1979what's the difference between powertec tracks and Wen's tracks?
hey... I'm not even in a woodworking business but your delivery is so smooth n' interesting and the videos in themselves are so well done, I'm watching all of your stuff anyways, man! You're such a great presenter it's uncanny. Keep up your great work, man, absolutely loving it.
Me too! I am a tool idiot… just like to learn about stuff
I'm with you guys, tool nut and appliance technician by day, love wrenching on my hotrods and have been known to let the Wife talk me into an occasional woodworking project. Soon I'll be building a fairly complex desk.
The fact that you are a professional builder and still have a track saw, that is so old, that Festool no longer makes them, tells you all you need to know about the price.
For a long time, I've been sick of electric tools and stuff breaking after the gurantee is expired. I hate planned obsolescence so freaking much.
That is why I always spend money on stuff, in the hope that it will last. Bosch blue, Festool, and in general stuff that is designed for and used in professional enviroments.
To this day, this strategy hasn't let me down. And even tho the initial costs suck alot, working with high end tools always makes me smile.
Btw, the Festool sander is just insanely good.
You should challenge everyone in the shop to build a piece of furniture that sells for more than the combined value of the tools used to make it
That is why tools are used more than once. Just rent stuff if you only need it one time.
One huge detail that you didn’t highlight enough with the Festool track saw is that you’ve likely had that tool for over a decade, and it is still performing at top quality levels. I think it is important even for people on a budget to consider tool-life/warranties
Too busy with random jump cuts.
I think the reason why he didn't highlight that part was that he was expressing a diffrent view point all together.. He was looking at it as someone new thats just starting out that dosent have much tools or money, that these would absolutely be a good tool to give you the ability to get your first few projects finished and make some money and upgrade to better tools instead of having to spend thousands before getting started and no way to make that kind of money to do so... I completely understand that thinking.. but i also agree with you that there is no way they will last for a long time and that you better do what you gotta do at 1st but dont rely on them and expect to upgrade asap...
@@anthonyevans1399 I mean, heck, even if you're not just starting out, if you need a track saw, unless you're a pro or planning on becoming a pro, I don't see why you wouldn't get the wen, unless you can afford the festool for a couple of projects a year.
The Festool also has a writhing knife.
you are right, i got everything a-brand. all same batteries etc. but if u probably gonna use it a few times only in your life u dont need a fancy expansive longlife tool.
By no means am I a professional woodworker. I've always just made do with whatever tools my dad has accumulated over the years, mostly big box store stuff. Just my opinion, but I think if you're a hobbyist just making stuff for yourself, and friends and family maybe, I don't really see the point in spending that much money on Festool. Unless of course you have a massive disposable income. I usually get pretty decent results with budget tools if I take my time and pay attention to detail. Plus there's plenty of upgrades you can make to budget tools, like higher quality blades, bits, etc. There is one exception however, and that's a SawStop table saw. We had one in my high school woodshop and I've seen it save peoples fingers on 2 different occasions. I do hope to own one of those some day.
Saw Stops are quality machines. Table saws are downright dangerous. There's no two ways around it. That said I've never had an accident using one ever. That's because when I use a table saw I'm careful. I like all my fingers. So I don't think being careful is unreasonable.
Yeah Festool are Pro Grade tools, not something to use if you're not making money with them. (You can if you want, Not gonna tell people how to live, just sayin.) 100% agree with the Saw Stop.
@@dragoonpreston3 Saw Stop is way too expensive for hobby use.
@@1pcfred Doesn't stop me from wanting one. If I'm looking for a new table saw and can get one for not much more than a normal type, Guess what one ima pick.
@@dragoonpreston3 if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. The table saw I'm using I bought at a garage sale. Now maybe you can luck out and find a Saw Stop used for cheap. But I've never seen or even heard of one. So you're limiting yourself severely by hoping. I certainly got really lucky with the saw I have. It still actually happened though.
I have the Wen 1065 track saw with the 110" rails. I upgraded the stock blade to the Wen 56 tooth blade. I also got the Wittworks arbor plug so dust collection is really pretty good (totally recommend getting one). I have been more than happy with my Wen Track Saw which I use solely for breaking down sheet goods. Enjoyed the test comparisons. As a retired hobbyist the Festool stuff is outside my budget!
My first track was the WEN. It definitely got the job done but didn’t last. Now I am also a Festool fan boy and the main reason is the 3 year warranty. Just sent back my sander got it back in a week and it is the best service I have had from any tool company. Great content John.
Would you say the wen was good enough quality to last say hobbyist once in a while/light use?
For the money that Festool gets, it had better never break, but if it does they should personally bring you a new one & put it directly in your hand.
As starter tools WEN is awesome. I have used some of their stuff I knew was going to be “once in a blue moon” usage. Their bench top sanders are just as good as more pricey brands. Drill press is worth it for how often I honestly use it, straight with no wobble . I also have the air filter, it works great.
WEN as starter tools ... At my age (mid-70's) WEN & Harbor Freight tools are "lifetime" purchases!!
Exactly this. I have the drill press, the benchtop sander and the air filter and I love them
I regularly use a Wen track saw with Makita tracks. The tool has worked well for me for almost 3 years now and I have no complaints.
The festool has a riving knife for kickback and an extra tiny blade for tearout. It does better on angled cuts as well. Kreg is a nice middle ground. Remember, great tools can offset skill for newer woodworkers. However, for the price point Wen makes a killer product. Great video. Be safe all!
That appeared to be a fair and honest review and comparison of two 'like for like' tools. I would agree that for someone on a limited budget, just starting out, spending mega bucks on top end tools may be out of reach. It's nice to see that there are perfectly acceptable tools on the market for a more affordable price.
One thing that you haven't been able to consider in this review is how well they stand up to extended use. WHat deterioration, if any, might there be in the cheaper tool after 6 months of use? Will it break? These would also be considerations that add to the affordability equation. You've had the Festool items for a long time, but they still work. Will the Wen tools still be working as well this time next year if used in the same way as the Festools?
Also sound and vibration. If you spend time on larger projects, comfort becomes worth a lot, and it's one of the reasons I absolutely adore my festool sanders.
I have never been disappointed with WEN tools. Glad you gave the demonstration. I wanted a track saw and was looking at Festool and just couldn’t justify it. I’ll be getting one from WEN in a couple of weeks.
That strobe on the Festool jigsaw would drive me crazy.
The epileptic model.
I doubt it, unless you've used one. I've never heard strobe causing issues, though I don't know anyone with epilepsy.
I have that Wen orbital sander, and I love it. Yes it has a lot of vibration that makes your hand tingle after, but that’s nothing you can’t almost eliminate with gel padded gloves to absorb the vibrations. I can also attest to how long it takes to sand, but so far I haven’t built anything large enough for that time to really matter.
I was surprised that he didn't mention anything about vibration. From my experience its specifically that which makes the biggest difference and it really affects in long used tool like orbital sander. Something that you'll feel after the work.
"i have had this for YEARS", cant reccomend... that is why festool cost more. they are built for regular heavy use. i doubt you would get as much use of a cheaper one.
Perfect for DIYers. If your tools generate your income, invest in better tools.
Micro adjust is great when you get a stack of plywood, and you can set the exact depth of the cut so you can cut on top of the other sheets without sliding bearers under the sheet before cutting.
I have both of those track saws. I make a lot of 8/4 red oak table tops and the Wen has a lot of trouble cutting through without doing 3 or 4 passes, but the Festool can do it in one. The power difference is worth the money, IMO.
I would say the power difference is sometimes worth the price. Depends on how often the tool gets used, and if the time saved is worth the price to you.
Yeah...but you could get the same amount of power difference from a Makita, Bosch, Dewalt, etc. Without spending ~$800+. Just saying. It's not like it's either Wen or Festool.
I have to say that I have a special affection for wen and other cheap brands but especially for wen because it fed me for many years, in addition to the fact that the black color on the tool looks quite good
The Wen router has a dust collection plate (clear panel that installs on those two bolt holes on the sled and attach to your vacuum line) but you left it in the box.
wen is that gonna happen
He was saying that on the Festool router, the dust collection is built in, not a separate attachment.
Only thing I don't like about the wen router is the square hole
Yeah it seems like it has a connection for dust collection, it's on the opposite side of where you hold it, on the top of the router. There's a big hole in it lmao
I stumbled upon Wen searching for a new Wood Lathe after having purchased a used one and loved it so much. The price was on point, and for a beginner it was a bit rough. It would stall a lot due to me not knowing how to keep my chisels properly sharpened, and trying to take too deep of a pass. This was actually advantageous for me as it taught me proper technique after using for a while. Currently up to 4 lathes, 2 different Wen, a Shop Fox and a early 90s Ryobi. The Wens hold up to the Shop Fox no problem.
I recommend Wen Tools for hobbyists, people on a budget, and if you are new to a certain type of tool and want to find out if it's worth it to you to get the premium brands. Almost always better than Harbor Freight pieces (at least in every instance where I can honestly compare). Honestly, Wen is great. I have yet to be disappointed.
Just finished the track saw battle. You said you've had the festool for years. You have probably maybe thousands of cuts with the Festool. The WEN will be replaced 10 times in the same time frame.
You're correct. haha but that isnt the point here.
Very happy I chose teal as my main brand. They’re right where I want for quality/price value.
Ditto.
I got a WEN rotary tool with case & a bunch of tools for like $18.50 on Amazon. I've used it to modify many folding knives in price ranges up to $1,000+, & it's worked like a champ for a couple years now already. Love it, just used it today!
Hi Adam! Really cool solder station! Currently, I'm working on adding a brushless system to my TT-02. Winter time wrenching!
I wasn't really paying you much attention... till I saw the STEELERS sign hanging in the background. now you have my attention SIR
Yup!!
I've been a framing carpenter for 2 deacdes, still in property management but I've been slowly getting a shop together to do furniture and wood crafts. I'll agree with many of the posts in that what's the tool going to be down the road (I'm ingrained in the you get what you pay for mindset). BUT, I do appreciate cheap that works now that I'm buying shop tools over jobsite tools I already have. And these days, any break is a good break. I say buy cheap, take care of the equipment and make some money, then upgrade. Thanks for the info :-)
The sander comparison is missing one crucial point, how much does the sander vibrate. Most of the time when I do sanding I end up sanding for 1 hour + and there it makes a very big difference how much you feel the vibration of the tool in your hand. I did use some cheaper sanders and my hand almost felt numb after I was done
Good call. Vibration is hard to compare though without something to measure the shake. But good call
Numbness is not ok. That's doing real nerve damage. The days come when you want those nerves back.
Very good point!
@@harlanbarnhart4656 nonsense. I've gotten dead hand running tools tons. I still have plenty of nerve though.
@@1pcfred Vibrations can definitely cause long-term damage to nerves and blood vessels. People working assembly lines, jack hammers, chainsaws etc are supposed to get a 10 minute break per hour of vibratory tool use in order to prevent damage. I have permanent nerve damage and its pretty terrible. For DIY home use, it would be hard to get damaged, but if you do any of this kind of stuff professionally with bad tools, you're at risk.
Your are the king👑 of youtube and tools videos
The problem with these types of comparisons is longevity. The Wen stuff is probably going to be Ok the first few times you use them. But plastic, and sometimes aluminum, parts are going to wear out and lose tolerance. You have to use these tools long-term to determine if they are actually worth it.
This point exactly!
My Festool TS55 EQ I got it in June of 2006, so it is coming up on 18 years old, it still runs like a champ. Yes it was expensive, I paid about $800 for it with two tracks shipped from Canada because here in Tokyo they wanted over $2000 for just the saw, no tracks 😵
I'm a General Contractor here in Tokyo and I've used that saw to cut miles and miles of stock, kitchen panel, etc and it never misses a beat.
Back in 2006 they really were the only game in town, now there are many options. If I was just starting out, I'd buy the WEN track saw but I'd also understand that I'm not going to get 18 years of use out of it, and that's fine.
Great video, keep them up!
As much as I hate to admit it, I have some Wen tools that I bought just to see how they were (and more than likely make fun of them, lol). They've honestly been holding up quite well, much to my surprise. That said, I still much prefer my other tools.
honestly that doesn’t sound like a big enough negative to me. if someone is using these cheap tools enough for durability to be a concern then by the time they break they’ll be looking for a nicer one anyways. i always live by the philosophy that i don’t buy the nice tool until i’ve used the cheap one enough to warrant it.
@@joncue0304 nothing wrong with buying some cheap tools, they can do the job. I too have some WEN tools, the ambient air cleaner that runs in my workshop to get small suspended particulates out of the air, and a small metal cutting band saw that I’ve modified and is actually not bad.
@@tri-tri-again Yep, I’m not going to disagree with you, but now I rely on my tools too much to not factor in the durability and reliability.
For a guy starting out, sure cheap tools can get you going, but they are not usually an option for a professional who is paying his mortgage and putting food on the table with them.
YMMV
I make money with my WEN track saw all the time. Haven’t had a single issue with it, in the 3 years that I’ve owned it. Very good video John. Love your stuff.
For me on the sanders, just going from DeWalt to Festool, was having feeling in my hand after sanding desktop. So, for me the extra money spent on the sander is well worth it
This is a very important point. Vibrations can cause a lot of problems that should be avoided. For a professional getting the tool with the least vibrations and the best dust collection will increase quality of life. For a home user using the tool a few times a year perhaps not a big problem. I think in a lot of these cases the safety and health parts are missed.
That festool jigsaw looks awesome. I can see if your doing site work install cabinets or kitchens that must be a game changer for things like scribe cuts.
Dont most people use those festool jigsaw upside down with a down cutting blade?
I returned the Went tracksaw the day I bought it. It wouldn't handle cherry slabs even with an aftermarket blade. I bought the Makita and have been super happy.
Just used my Wen to rip 8/4 rock maple with the stock blade. Used to make a reference cut before passing through the table saw and eventually the jointer. I've cut thousands of feet with this saw and no issues. Rounded the edges with the WEN router and a 1/4 roundover bit. These WEN tools are pretty decent for the money. I own much more expensive versions of the same, but love how good these are for the money. And more importantly love how none of these walk off the worksite because guys think these are just another cheap tool.
How about a video where you test expensive tools with cheap addons/blades/batteries and cheap tools with expensive addons/blades/batteries
I couldn’t justify the festool track saw, went with the Makita instead. Love it. And it’s systaner locks onto the festool one.
I also own the makita, buddy owns the festool. We both actually prefer the makita.
When i upgraded to a festool rotex 150, my workflow was so much more efficient that it was immediately noticeable. I can put all my weight over the rotex and take my feet off the floor and it'll just keep going. I'd bet a large sum of money that the Wen would stop dead or explode. And I do the same kind of builds that you do, but for real paying clients, not youtube. So time really does matter, as does the quality of the finished product. The finish is a billion times better than inferior sanders which is super important. Same is true for their big router being better than other equivalents on the market and the domino machine is obviously the gold standard, I thick we can all agree on that. From my 25+ years of experience in the game, cheap tools like the Wen are for hobbyists only, they don't have the build quality or longevity of the more expensive machines. If you're a serious woodworker and do this day in day out, quality pays for itself in days or months, not years.
Lol I bought a WEN jig saw on a whim and I love the thing, it was dirt cheap and works great, love the lazer thing as well, seems gimmicky but it does help.
Regarding routers, yeah don't cheap out, the Festool is definitely overkill for most people but Bosch and Dewalt both make incredible plunge+fixed base routers that will be perfect for 99% of people.
Fair reviews
Great video.
For tools, as a VERY intermediate DIYer, home owner and 2 badly herniated vertebrates proprietor, I always look for 3 things in my tools:
1 - Ergonomics (weight, size, vibration, etc.)
2 - Power (speed, strength, batteries, etc)
3 - Time-saving ability. I can't work in awkward positions or bent for more then a few minutes, so I won't mind paying $200 CAD for a tool that'll be used for 5 minutes 4 times a year if ot saves me 1 week of painkillers, 4 weeks of phycical therapy and 7 weeks with no income.
Here's an example: I recently did my brother's pickup breaks and oil change. I could have used a simple set of ratchets and spend 20 to 30 minutes per wheels and an other 10 for the oil (remember: "broken back"), or I could buy an electric ratchet and an impact wrench amd spend 3 minutes per wheels and 2 for the oil.
Sometimes, it's not how much a tool will earn you, but how much it'll save you. Like John said in his video: At how much do you value your time?
Remember kids: Professionals sacrifice materials to save time. Amateurs sacrifice time to save materials
Dunno how its relevant but yeah
This is it. I am a weekend DIY kind of guy, and frankly won't use a track saw enough in the odd things I do to warrant the higher end model. It all boils down to need versus investment.
ive been using Festool since mid 90s my 1st festool tracksaw I got in early 2000s is still around and works perfectly. buy once cry once
I've got Porter Cable, DeWalt, and Craftsman tools my dad bought in the 80s/90s that also still all work for 1/2 the price
Basically any ONE of the Festools cost more than my entire household (including car) of stuff. Granted the car was more expensive when I bought it, it ain't got a lot of value now. Living on SocSec is a limitation that many of us have.
Excellent review. I've watched quite
a few cheap vs premium tool comparisons, and I enjoyed your down to earth, does it do the job approach.
I'd have to agree regarding the sander. Sanding is no fun, and usually takes a lifetime. Personally, my priority regarding sanding, was comfort. I bought the Bosch - can't recall offhand which model, but it cost around £400 sterling, and came with the anti-vibration doofer. After using a standard orbital sander, it was literally night and day. Superb dust extraction, and extreme comfort - you can hold it lightly with 3 fingers, and it does not bounce around all over the place, vibrating all the way up to your brain.
Got to say, though, I'd love the beefy router! I've got plenty of smaller quarter inch routers and trim routers, but only one, fairly basic half inch job. I only use it with a worktop jig for mason's mitres, so can't complain.
The tracksaw looks an awful lot like a similar version available here in the UK, and I'm sure it is just fine for most mortals who are not building pianos.
I plunged for the Makita, as it was on a special. At the time I bought it, 2016, it cost around £420 with two 55 inch tracks, two blades, a Makpak, and a carry bag for the tracks.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your experience with these tools.
John talking about the Festool: "This router is the last plunge router I will ever purchase."
But he bought the Wen after he bought the Festool... 🤔😆
I got the Wen track saw. It's solid, works great. No more circular saw and straight edge for me. Highly recommend.
Festool and Woodpecker have both reslized that they can make a good product but charge an absurd amount of money for them because people LOVE status symbols
It’s not just a status symbol though.. it’s a better product. You get what you pay for. This cheap crap wouldn’t last more than a year under heavy use and that’s not even mentioning the fact that they work better too.
I'm 40, I'm terrible at home DYI, my tool collection is almost non existent, but I love these video's.
your math is weired... if you charge 50 bucks an hour and sand 3 hours you make 150, if you sand 1 hour you make 50.... so, IF you bill by the hour the more expensive sander makes you less money ;)
You charge the same regardless of the sander. So one hour cost you 50 and 3 is 150. That is the $100 difference.
@@JohnMaleckiUnscrewedI think he was trying to make a joke lol hourly employees love the Wen and the boss loves the Festool type deal lol
Its unethical to bill a customer based on your lack of skills or your choice of tools to get the job done.
"Hey there remember the price I told you? Well it's gonna be 3x that cuz I've got a slow sander now"
@@Onewheelordeal thats why i dislike billing by the hour but rather think of an overall price.. its just the way john argues makes my comment the logical conclusion ;) not saying thats the way to go
I think that you and Project Farm are my favorite tool review channels. Different methodology and style, but very in depth.
Looks like the main difference between these guys basically boils down to how much time you're gonna spend finishing off the project. I'd rather take my time. If I know I can go fast, I'll try, and that produces sloppy work.
That router is nuts.
Wen is a great brand for deciding if you want a tool. Thinking about a plunge router? Get a Wen find out if it works for you, when you wear it out get the festool. I got a Wen Lathe, used it. Sold it and then bought a big Nova Lathe. I found out I loved Woodturning, found out what I wanted in a lathe from the Wen and got the Nova. Also if you need something you won’t use a lot, Wen is a winner there as well.
i'm a residential remodeling contractor... i've been in construction for 35 years and have never seen festool nor wen on any jobsite. while i am familiar with both names since i have shopped at both amazon & rockler, i've never owned either brand. still, mildly interesting video. thumbs up! ...should add that i do have an $800 track saw but it's for jumbo format tile
The jigsaw is definitely used professionally a lot. For example I use it quite a bit in flooring for round cuts (radiator hoses, round walls etc.). Even though I tend to use my exakt saw with dust extraction for basically every straight cut, I definitely love how clean I can make the round cuts with a good quality blade in my trusty makita.
34 yrs in the trade, started with festool 8 yrs back. The grip is my thing. Done most brands and I will most likley end my time with festool, precision, service and I could go on...
One setback is cost, well less hazzle do cost. Mid range brands last half way against festool, cheap range well you might get lucky 😃
Hilti, Mafell is others that sometimes are better.
Cash are short sometimes, we all know that i guess.
Good rewiev 👌
Boosie....that clip was hilarious 😂😂😂 come on now dawg😂😂😂
I have a few Wen tools including the router that you tested. I absolutely love it. I mainly use it for flattening slabs though. Hasn’t put me wrong yet. Keeps eating non stop.
I've been using the Wen track saw for a couple of years. Works great. I've built two kitchens with it.
I have all Festool as well, the biggest thing for me is the accessories… so many useful things you can buy. It’s also a lot cleaner in general, which when you work in an expensive house you don’t want to be making a big stupid mess. If you’re a carpenter or home builder you should only be buying these tools. They last, they can take a beating, they will make you more money.
The wen might stack up well against the age old ts55, but i wonder how it stacks up against the new ts60. Things an absolute unite. And it would be interesing to see, how the wen looks after 1 or 2 years of use. I slowly aquire festool and mafell power Tools for myself, because i l know i can give them to the next genration once my time has come :)
You have to make a video building something using only vintage power tools and hand tools from like 1970s on down. I don't think I've seen any RUclipsr craftsman using only vintage tools. I'm sure it'll give you flashbacks of your childhood 👍🏻
Great video! Very informative. Really enjoy your straightforward, no-BS presentation style. Kind of surprised at the results - especially coming from someone who is admittedly a Festool fanboy. One thing I would have liked to see (where possible) is using the same blades/bits for both tools in each comparison. One last thing- for the price, that Festool router should do your laundry.
Bought some shop shades, just waiting on them to ship. It’s been about 3 weeks, and until I get them, my eyes will remain unprotected!
Finishing up shipping the presale this week!
I liked this comparison. I liked on the sanders he pointed out time. The savings in time can help offset the price if you are using it for a living.
"Say Wen!" -Doc Holiday
Great video. Thanks!
I picked up the wen tracksaw when it went on sale. I went in knowing that I was probably only going to use it for breaking down plywood and wouldn't do any angle cuts. So far, I haven't even taken it out of the box, but this definitely makes me feel better about the purchase.
I already had a few wen tools that I was very happy with. bandsaw, drill press, oscillating sander, and now a dust collector. So far my only complaint about any is from the band saw. the t-track is very small and standard things wont fit it. like the bow featherboard.
John, great video and very informative for a beginner. My request for future videos would be: Can you compare jointers under $600? I know there are so many options and it's hard to choose one between 6-8 inches that is worth the money! Help!
As for jigsaws I would put my Austrian made Bosch circa 1988 up against ANY other jigsaw.
FYI, a well lit shop requires no built-in light. However:
stroke speed, chip extraction and blade kick are paramount.
I use a lot of both of these brands. For what I do Wen is fine on everything I just have more fun using the Festool….less vibration, less noise etc but I’ve never had failures or problems with my wen stuff….its just not “tight”
Great video. With Festool you can order replacement parts easily. Had to do that once for my Kapex.
I think a Build Video using only Wen tools would be awesome and im sure others will agree! (Bonus if you can include a wen jointer and a planer as well!) Especially given the fact that for most people on a lower budget, Wen seems to be there go-to. Seen lots of people with Wen 8 inch spiral head jointer or the Wen planer
I have the Wen track saw and for what I do for myself, I love it. I do have Festool 125 sander and ct15 extractor for health reasons
I own a few WEN tools mixed in with my higher end stuff, I have no complaints. They do what theyre supposed to do.
We're knocking up a new cabin on some land and I'm running the Wen Tracksaw as my 'table saw' on the job. Basic as hell but it's been more portable/as capable.
As someone just getting started in the craft to do when I retire in 7 years, I would love to start with the cheap tools.
But i understand why you have what you have.
You and a friend should build the same project, one only using cheap tools and one expensive. To see if they hold up and if one shows any major improvement. Thanks and God bless you and your family !!!
One of the things to consider also is the ability of the smaller sander to get into more places. I also think that the location of the speed control slider on the Festool has less chance of being moved by accident.
Lmfaoooo the colonel sanders cut away killed me
Yes.
"Same same, but different. But still same."
Forgot about that movie, I had fun watching that.
😆👍
My 1st festool sander was a PRO 5 LTD for $99 , I might be interested in WEN DOMINO for now I’ll stick with my porter cable biscuit joiner
I have several WEN power tools and am really happy with them.
But then, I have a ton of Harbor Freight tools too. They have lasted me for 20 years. I have the 20V drill and impact driver in Black and Decker. They are 9 years old.
My shop is 8x12 feet and have no room for the bigger stuff. I built a ramp on it and built carts for my bigger machines, the planer, jointer, table saw and band saw. I roll them outside to use them and have room in the shop.
@@cabman86 if I wheeled my tools outside here mosquitos would fly away with all of them.
For the stuff that I build (small furniture, lamps, etc. for myself or as gifts for friends) power tools within a low & medium price range are good enough, for professionals who make a living for example with wood working it's in my opinion necessary to have (expensive) professional tools ... longer life span, often 24hr on-site replacement within the period of warranty, etc.
Only thing what I noticed with my "cheap" tools is that for example quality saw blades, drill bits, etc. make a huge difference in the quality of work (since the included stuff is most of the time more or less scrap ... if something is included at all).
My most expensive tool is my festool battery-operated table saw, and I love it too!
On the track saw. The Wen had a definite power drain while cutting, enough that you mentioned it. I feel over the years this will result in a failure. I use the Milwaukia and I am happy with it; cheaper tracks can be had by off brands that work fine with it. On the router, I don't think I could ever say any router would be the last one I buy; there just isn't any single router that is perfect for the whole shop task regiment. GP, you just can't beat the workhorse Porter Cable 690, I own 7. For power and variability in a table, the Titan(but I feel DeWalt, PC, and a few others would fit here as well) my titan has durability written all over it and is a beast. I do shelves a lot, a great pin router is the Makita trim router with a plunge, amazing light, powerful and dependable router. For ease of use and GP edging, Milwaukia M18( yes I will be buying the new big one). So while I respect your opinion, I have to disagree with the blank aspect of it. Too many jobs better suited for a multitude of variation in tools. Thanks for the vid, as usual it was a pleasure to watch.
I picked up a Wen track saw, but got the PowerTek tracks with it instead. I figure when the Wen eventually does kick the bucket, I can look into a slightly nicer saw.
Both tools are good. One is great for professional use and position.The when is good for me. I don’t do professional woodworking projects every day. I do basic stuff professor was good as well. Have a great Sunday.
I have the wen track saw for breaking down sheet material and it’s been great, definitely like you said not as tight and smooth and needs more tweaking to get strait and the angle cuts take a lot more to set up strait but bang for buck it’s been great.
Be great to see how different sanders compare, I was really surprised by that.. Makes we wonder if my Metabo need upgrading
Regarding the sanders, how does the vibration level compare between the two? That’s the biggest difference I’ve found between the Festool sanders and the consumer grade ones. I can sand comfortably for a long time with the Festool, whereas my hand and arm are tingling after much less time with the cheaper machines. That and the noise level - I’m very impressed with how quiet the Festool is. I agree with your conclusion that the Festool is worth the extra $$, but would almost consider it a squared function - less vibration for a lot less time far increases the value IMO.
I do hardwood floors and those orbital festools are the best on the market them being lower to the ground helps when getting under toe kicks
The Wen has a slow start. It's supposed to start slow. Without slow start the router would twist due to torque.