I Actually Bought Woodworkings Most Dangerous Tool
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2024
- I Actually Bought Woodworkings Most Dangerous Tool
After buying a shopsmith and going through all of the crazy pasts of that build and project. I got hundreds of comments about buying a radial armsaw and seeing if it is actually more dangerous. So here we go.
Grab yourself some Shop Shades PRESALE - bit.ly/ShopShades_Unscrewed
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I would guess that the motor on the second saw is 220V, or it's wired incorrectly. Maybe the previous owner didn't have 220V and he wired it for 110V? A 14" blade seems like a lot to ask of for 110V. The slow start could also point to a bad start capacitor.
Same thoughts about the capacitor here, too. And also check the carbon brushes, maybe they are also worn out.
bad stating cap or the centrifugal switch that energizes the second windings once up to speed. The switches get sawdust and crap in them because the motor cant be sealed due to heat.
I’d blow out the motor and spray it with some contact cleaner first. That should give you an idea if you are on the right track. From there, I’d consider finding a local company to check the windings and do a rebuild. New brushes and contacts, etc.
@@nickademuss42 Oh yeah, good point. If it's full of crud that switch won't engage or move very well. I had my old 70's craftsman table saw motor stop spinning up at all, I thought I had killed the motor. I took it apart and didn't see anything I immediately could recognized as wrong, so just cleaned it and put it back together. Everything has been working fine with it since then.
That was going to be my guess. I've never seen a 14" RAS that wasn't running 3hp
@John Malecki - check your motor wiring. I have the same Rockwell radial arm saw, and it won't stall and it's a 220 volt. A 220 volt motor will run on 110 volts but will have no power.
I had the same issue with my delta
I believe you're 100% correct. It's a synchronous induction motor. All things being good, it will always eventually reach the correct speed because the operating RPMs are a function of the number of motor windings and the frequency (60hz) of the power source, regardless of the supplied voltage (assuming there's enough voltage to push enough current to provide enough power to get it turning at all). What's missing is enough voltage and consequently enough power to keep it running under load.
Which would explain why the plug had been replaced. Possibly a guy who didn't have a 220 outlet in the shop.
Yeah, this runs like the saw I mis-wired for 220 when it's on a 110v circuit. The capacitor could be very weak too, not enough to be useless, but not giving it much capacitance to work with...that shouldn't leave it so weak, but it might be the cause of the super-slow start-up.
Or the motor could have a serious issue, I mean, that's possible too, but I would test BOTH the 110 and 220v wiring options on the motor and see how each setting behaves on its expected voltage. The really fun ones are where the included diagram is on the cap and not the motor, but then someone uses a cap from another motor, but that only happened to me once. Anyway, definitely verify its voltage settings, and maybe swap out the capacitor.
I came here to say this.
I remember waking up from having my gallbladder removed to a Woodwork Teacher in the bed opposite me with a serious bandage on his hand. Apparently, he sliced his thumb clean off using a radial arm saw. My favourite quote I overheard from him was: "It was going to happen one day but why was it in front of *THAT* class." Teachers know what he means ...
Damn! haha!
Grandpa cut his thumb off with a RAS as well. However I had 16” DeWalt and loved it.
@@JohnMaleckiUnscrewed im like the look of thoes shop shades could do with a good pair
This happened in my middle school back in the 90s lol. I wasn't in the class but I heard about it. Pretty sure it was on a radial arm saw as well. Might have been on a table saw.
I'm a teacher and I feel this in my soul.
As a tip- from experience, you really want to make sure you get a blade with a very small or even negative hook angle. Too many of the 2nd hand RAS's you pick up will have a replacement blade fitted, and the former owner just picked the blade from the offerings at the local home depot, not realizing that those blades were made for either table saws or miter saws. The agressive hook angles make the blades want to walk, and will also contribute to making rip cuts more likely to go balistic.
On the subject of rip cuts, my only concern/difficulty with rips has been that mine doesn't have a riving knife (at least it has an anti-kickback pawl though) But I've ripped countless boards over the decade or so that I've had it.
And as others have said, that Dewalt is probably intended to be (or at least capable of being) wired for 220V.
Radials are far safer ripping than any table saw. The reason is that with the radial you are NOT standing in the line of fire. You are feeding the stock from the front of the saw and it can only kick the wood to the left or right. And radials can NOT kick back in cross cutting. They can’t pull wood (or your hand.) onto the edge of the blade because the edge of the blade is sunk into the able top. They are 10 times safer than any table saw.
Assuming you have it set up right and are smart enough to notice that the blade will follow the visible slot in the table.
As far as a riving knife, The anti-kickback pawls, if properly set, should prevent any kickback in a thru cut rip. You set the blade guard so the leading edge of the guard is barely higher than the stock you’re cutting, so the blade can not lift the stock off the table at the start of the cut… and at the tail of the cut the blade is actually pushing the wood down, but because the edge of the blade, even when ripping, is embedded in the table, the radial literally can not pull the wood up onto the edge of the blade, which is part of what makes table saws so dangerous. ( tables saws are LIFTING the board off the table at the tail ends of their cut, and can pull a board over the top of the teeth and really launch it, or even pull your hand onto the edge of the blade. Radials can’t do that. )
What I see more often is that if the kerf closes, or a thick piece of stock starts to twist or bend as I am ripping, it will bind on the blade and cause the motor klixon to pop- shutting the saw down for a minute or two until you can reset the motor after it cools. Mine is running thru a sophisticated digital phase converter and it’s my phase converter that will shut power to the motor if it starts becoming overloaded. Takes like 5 minutes to reset. As a result, If I am ripping something long or thick, I will just keep a small wooden or plastic wedge handy and as I pull the stock thru, I just shove the wedge gently in the kerf to keep it spread so it can’t bind on the blade.
You can also buy a set of Board Buddies- which are these spring loaded rubber wheels that mount to the fence on either side of the saw carriage and only turn in one direction. They are set to pull the board against the fence, and prevent even a fully cut off rip from getting launched between the fence and blade back out the feed side. They come in two kinds, Clockwise, and counter clockwise, depending on whether you are In Ripping or Out Ripping.
The pawls are nice, but I'd still love to have a riving knife to prevent the pinching, without having to stop and wedge.
@@revgeorge1977 Folks are overly confident in riving knives. They are strictly for when you are not thru cutting a board, or otherwise can’t have the over the top blade guard/riving knife combo on a table saw. They reduce the chance of a kickback, but do not eliminate it. And they do not prevent the board from being lifted and pulled onto the top of the blade, along with your hand.
If you are thru ripping on the Radial, the edge of the blade is embedded in the table kerf. The board cannot get onto the edge of the blade and so cannot be pulled into the blade. The only time I have ever seen a radial kick while ripping is when some doofus tries feeding the board the wrong direction… or when they are making the mistake of ‘ripping’ short lengths where the cut is not longer than the engaged surface of the blade. ( such that the cut offs can get jammed between the blade disc and fence- for short cuts ignore grain direction, you cross cut them all on the radial )
However, some later made radial saws did have anti-kickback pawl arms that had a center spline that served as a riving knife… but for the most part they were rather limited in terms of depth the riving knife would reach- not much use on 2” deep stock. But those same later era radials tended to have lighter weight arms and columns that have too much flex in them and are what contributed to folks mistaken notions about radials safety.
I find a simple wedge works great, like those plastic applicators you buy with a can of bondo, and even then, I only use them if it looks like the kerf is closing as I cut.
Because of where you stand while ripping on a radial, it’s not like a table saw where you would have to reach over the top of the blade, across the wide table to insert a wedge.
If people spend the money (I know $40 is a fortune) for a new Diablo blade, they don't climb. You can't feel anything, they cut so effortlessly with the modern laser sharpened carbide, that you don't get any burning, climbing, or anything.
You can really just slam the most aggressive Diablo blade on the radial arm saw, and it won't climb. If you're using a 1990's blade (I think many people are) then of course it's going to cut AWFUL and it's going to burn the wood, it's going to bog down the motor and it will probably launch a carbide at you too. I put the 24 tooth Diablo Ripping blade on my 9" radial arm saw, and it cuts effortlessly smooth, even on plywood crosscuts, it doesn't surge or try to climb, and there is very little to no tear out.
The moden blades have "anti kickback" rakers on them, to prevent the blade catching and climbing--the 1990's hardware store carbide blades found on most older radial arm saws at yardsales, do not have. Get a modern blade with the anti-kickback raker teeth (also called shoulder teeth).
You can look up any Diablo ripping blade or "general purpose" 40 tooth blade, and all of them have the anti-kickback teeth in between the cutting teeth. These are essential, because they prevent the saw from trying to feed too fast. Don't buy a $200 Forrest blade, because they do not cut better, and they do not have the proper anti-kickback teeth on them.
My old shop teacher on the first day of class would setup a radial saw to rip and shoot a 2x4 across the shop as a safety demo.
I got a Craftsman as a floor demo, for cheap and have been using it every which way it can go for the last 40 years. I love it.
Same here, but understanding a bit about how saws can grab anything in reach keeps you sharp while using it. A lot of woodworking journals in the sixties and seventies pointed out the potential dangers and why they occur, and I took the time to digest this. Still have a full complement of fingers and thumbs
Mine just held up his hand with the 3 missing fingers. :)
I remember my papa tanning my hide for shooting a 2x4 across the garage with the radial arm saw when he wasn't there.... That must have been 20 years ago, and I still fear the radial arm saw.
Me, too!
Whats mad is i would never have a need to buy a radial arm saw but felt the need to be watching every moment of this video
Love the talking about the safety, while applying electrical tape to a cut.
blood on the saw - before even firing it up! 😂
Common practice in all the trades I used to keep a roll of white electrical tape aside for just that reason . the black smuges too much
The only time I've hurt myself on my table saw was when it was powered off. I dragged my arm across the blade.
I recently gave my RAS away. I hadn't used it in almost 30 years. Too dangerous.
It's a broken brake.
@@kwilliams2239 in the old days 1950s-60s there was no dynamic brakes on most saws I remember going to the lumber yards for scraps and remember the whine of the RAS as they powered down
If you want to go full 70s/80s, you need to run a wobble-dado on that thing. When dad would start up his Craftsman with that thing on it, the house would vibrate.
Hahahaa.. I have an 8" wobbly.. I just can't bring myself to use it!
I inherited by fathers wood shop recently and when I came across the wobble dado I felt like a vet with PTSD. Full fade out to the whole shop shaking and the loudest screaching noise accompanied by the blade spinning. It didn't help that it took what felt like forever to stop spinning lol.... Good times...
I have those they are awesome also have the three cutter molding head that makes a roar.
@@mlambert5722 True....LOL. Sadly, my father just passed and I'll be travelling to the great state of Maine to go through his enormous wood shop. While I can't justify shipping any of the machinery, I'd love to come across that damn wobbler and just frame it for my shop. HA! I'd love to see what TSA would do seeing that in my luggage.
in the Mid 90s thats what my shop had in Jr High
You should hook the big saw up to a 24V motor so you can lift/lower it with a switch. I recently did this with my drill press and it's AWESOME. A simple 24V motor and a shaft coupler is all it takes.
I love this idea!
Is that blood already? 4:19 John didn't even start it up yet....haha
A little history on DeWalt and the radial arm saw:
Invented by Raymond DeWalt in 1922 in Leola, PA. He sold the DeWalt Company to AMF (the company that made bowling pin setters and atomic reactors, and owned Harley for a short time) in 1949. DeWalt was eventually bought by Black and Decker in 1960 and continued to make radial arm saws under the DeWalt name until 1990.
I just bought a used Craftsman Radial Arm saw. I had one in the eighties and I was a little afraid of it. Long story short I moved and I did not take it with me (space was an issue). This was the best video I have found and your care about how dangerous it is was refreshing. I bought mine purely for Dados. But after watching your video I am more open to doing so much more with it. Now I am pretty excited about it. Great Video.
the sound of that Delta winding up and slowing down reminds me so much of my grandfather's shop in the 1970's
I own a roofing and siding company and I’ve used a radial arm saw for cutting siding and soffit since I was about 8 years old. I love them!
This video was so much better paced than the last couple build videos. I watch these kinds of videos to relax and space out, the crazy fast paced videos give me anxiety (IA console ). TIn this video John seems much more relaxed and the shop seems to have a positive atmosphere. Keep it up!
Schools still have shop class. I'm a teacher, we have a full out construction class as well as wood working classes. They learn to use tools. We also have a full auto maintenance program. I teach physics and a big part of my physical science curriculum is engineering and revision, in other words: build, test, make better. Easy now when you're attacking teachers, some of us are still trying to build self sufficient adults.
My local high school has a fully decked wood shop too. They offer woods as a bundle course to introduce multiple courses. The kids can then select one to go further if they choose.
My high school hasn't had shop for 20 yrs. You're right, blanket statement on his part wasn't applicable to you, but yours isn't applicable to me.
In my country this type off classes never exist so for me when a saw in the tv show this type of classes feel strange.
I very glad that my father teach me to do the repair in the house and use the basic tools(hammer,sircular saw,grinder,etc) because in this time know how to use a hammer is a forgoten skill 😅😅
(Sorry any grammar mistake english is no my native lenguage)
Either motor is worn out or you're either missing a start or run capacitor or both. The spin down issue suggests the centrifugal switch for the capacitor circuit was removed or disabled, but then I'm only experienced on equipment from late 60s to early teens.
You are of a dwindling society, my high school stopped teaching woodworking in 1988. Now in Oz, convos with mates say they ended here in 1990s. Now a technical school course after high school called TAFE.
I own a Craftsman 10" Radial Arm. Love that saw for crosscuts and dado. It also works great for ripping plywood sheets. Like any other tool, it's only as safe as the operator.
There are specific types of blades that work best on radial arm saws:
Carbide Tipped Saw Blades for Radial Arm Saws
Intended for radial arm and other types of saws where the blade is above the workpiece, the Amana Tool® Radial Arm Saw Blade (-2°) hook angle reduces the tendency of the blade grabbing the material and is recommended for combination rip & crosscuts.
Yea, I made mention of the negative rake blade also. That's kinda a must-have if you want a good experience with these things.
as a shop owner that has runs a 16" blade 30" cross cut radial, regularly I would suggest do not oil your rails and bearings use dry silicone or dry graphite. As the sawdust is airborne and with oil on the rail it sticks together making a pellet paste substance ( clean it with a white scotch bright pad or something similar in grit) that impedes the rolling of the head and also a tip for older machines if the rails are worn out. disassemble the top flip the rails. now you have a brand new rolling surface for the bearings to travel along and toss in a new set of bearings while your at it. it will act like a brand new machine.
I worked at a metal sign shop and they have a 14 inch radial arm saw that ran on at least 220 volt. It sat outside under a shed with a long 25 foot table to cut single and double face extruded aluminum frames. It cut 90 degrees and 45 degree cuts. You had to set the 45 with a speed square. The table was mostly square. The blade took easily 2 minutes to stop. The blade would shoot shorter off cuts. This saw would rip your face off just because you flipped the power switch to the on position.
I owned a dual voltage Craftsman 12 inch radial arm saw that was 90 percent rock solid. I fought the arm deflection constantly. I finally got rid of it when I inherited my dad's 10 inch dual voltage Delta contractor table saw.
You talked about the blade feeling like it was pushing through the wood. The one they own has easily 5 x more push. I had to use a wide stance a brace myself to make a cut. I had to wear gloves because I was cutting aluminum and it went everywhere. The 45 degree cut always left the bevel edge cupped a 16th of an inch. So on a goof day the welder only had to fill in an 1/8th of inch on the joint.
I'm surprised that your 14 inch radial arm saw only runs 110 volt. Hopefully you can find a way to run it 220 volt
I've had a couple of old DeWalts over the last thirty five years of sawdust manufacturing. I got my first one for free...just haul it outta here kinda free. It had the same startup issues you have on your 14"er. I found that internally (behind the wiring cover on the motor) the saw was set for 220v but the cord and plug were set for 110v. I had to 'urge' the blade up to speed with a push stick...which I thought was pretty damn sketchy, so I correctly wired the saw for 220v. Ran like a dream. Sold it for $200 in the late 90's. Ran a couple Crapsman arm saws, but last week I found, and purchased, a 9" DeWalt that I'm going to clean up and tune up and build into my cutoff bench. I absolutely love the rigidity of the old DeWalts, and while I am not going to be like Frank H with a gazillion old DeWalts around my shop I can see having one until they revert to my estate...if you catch my drift. 😮😂😂😂
There is a site out there called OWWM. It is run by a couple of guys who love old American 'arn' (southern slur for 'iron') and have a damn near complete library of 'funny papers' (their term for tool manuals) for just about any tool manufactured in the United States. They do not...and likely never will...tend to imports. An example would be locating a manual for a Crapsman table saw sold in the '80's, but not for one sold in the '00's, as those came out of Taiwan. I might suggest Sam go search them out, but if he's anything like me, he'll be lost to you for days!
I love my radial arm saw! I got an old one from the early 70s and it's rock solid. Mine is set up for non through cuts. Really only dado cuts and super long pieces. Yes, I do have a nice miter saw right beside it, but this saw never leaves 90 so I know it's precise. A good negative rake blade is a must, and don't pay attention to the nice man in a tie pretending to do dangerous cuts with the saw in the manual!
That cut with the big saw, you can see that if it didn't bog down, it was starting to climb the wood.
240 definitely gives more grunt with my saw. I highly recommend it :)
I've been using radial arm saws for well over 65 years with no mishaps. My current one is a 30 year old Craftsman, and it has full maneuverability with mitres, etc.
OH MY GOD. I operated one of these in my teens for my uncles woodshop. Massive 24in? blade. Cutting all the moulding to rough size, and getting rid of offcuts. - They are fascinating to operate as you experienced. So glad to see this video and bring back memories!
The blade still spinning while we were eating lunch, and still spinning when we got back was always hilarious.
As a safety thing, make sure the carriage takes about 5# pressure to move the saw. This will reduce the likelihood of it moving on its own (before you start it, of course). This is done by adjusting the tension on the carriage bearings. The blade spinning can be reduced greatly by replacing the bearings on the arbor. Mine went from 30s to 6s spin-down with new bearings.
The biggest difference between this RAS and a sliding compound saw is that many people start the compound saw all the way out to do a scoring cut, then push through the wood in a descending cut. This doesn't allow the blade to draw itself faster into the wood. For whatever reason, people don't do this on a RAS. There is this mindset that you must pull the saw towards you in a climbing cut. It's just so easy for the saw to draw itself into the wood and get out of control. You can even see in one of your clips from another woodworker, he starts his cut with the motor fully extended, then extends his arm to push through the wood. It's what the label on the front says to do.
watching this just cemented my security in adding this to the list of tools I never wish to own alongside a full-size lathe.
For the motor - check the wiring. Old machinery usually runs on 3 phases (as far as I know 380V), however, the 3-phase brushless motor can run on a single fase 220V, just very poorly. It might be the case here (assuming that you are running it right now on a single phase)
Yea, this should not be running like that. Change the power.
The thing with 3-phase is that it doesn't use a starter coil or capacitor; the 3-phase gives, in effect, a rotating current, which, basically, is also why you can reverse the direction of spin by switching any two wires.
You can use an electrolytic "start" capacitor to fake the third phase to start a 3-phase motor and a smaller (regular) "run" capacitor to keep it going. When it gets up to speed, you cut the start cap out of the circuit, and let the run capacitor* take over. (In fact, I think you can do without the run capacitor, with about 30% power loss.)
It's really pretty simple, though I've forgotten the exact details, but you can find them all over the web. Look for "Homemade Phase Converters".
I have a 20 HP lathe in my basement running off single-phase 220 VAC, a big bank of cap.s I got out of junk air conditioners, and wired up to a 10 HP 3-phase motor to generate the third leg. The combo gives me 3-phase, but I have to give the 10 HP motor a little kick to get it started spinning before I power it up.
Details for this are online as well.
*(Electrolytic cap.s will overheat and fry if exposed to too much current for long, but they pack a lot more power into a small size than run cap.s
And they make a cool whistling sound when they blow!)
🙄
Guys... stop already. That's an old 115 vac single phase saw without an electric brake.
@@briandantz4899no it’s a 14” GR probably 55, they were all 240 single phase , or 3 phase. Being a 14”, most likely 3 phase as it was industrial quality tool. It most definitely was not 120
Growing up my dad and i did a lot of wood working. We used a radial arm saw a lot. He always told me that the most dangerous thing about it was if it walks on you and you dont keep control of it. Between the 2 of us we still have our 10 fingers. I believe a lot of the safty of a radil arm saw is using the thing that sits between your ears.
My dad's first tablesaw was a circular saw mounted to a plywood deck. He made amazing things with it.
I hope you mean to say "between the two of us we still have our 20 fingers"!🙂
That's exactly right, if you use your head and don't do anything stupid while using RAS, such as have your hand anywhere near the blade or it's path, not standing in the the right position to use the RAS a little to side preferably, improper holding/clamping of the piece to be cut, regularly clean the gunk off of your blade to keep it sharp and replace if necessary (chipped teeth), I would also say it is much safer to crosscut with than rip a piece length-wise, any ripping should be saved for the table saw, although IMO the table saw is probably the most dangerous saw at least based on my own experiences, especially if you get a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood in a bind and it kicks back and slams you into a wall, I've also seen a coworker push a sheet of plywood through one and it shot a splinter about 3/8" thick and 1" long through his knuckle, he had to pull it out with needle nose pliers, if it had hit him in neck it could've severed an artery and he would have bled to death before we could get to a ER, as our shop was way out in the country
@artian11 yes, sorry my dad is also a math professor so I automatically devided by 2. It is a bad habit that I have got to stop.
@@poolcrusher90 I have seen a man lay out and build a set of cabinets with only a router. Things are endless if you get creative and aren't afraid to get a little squirrely.
I loved using the radial arm saw in home economics. I cut the fabric for a gym bag, sliced vegetables and mixed batter with it. Great tool for the kitchen!
A Finewoodworking forum talks about a 3hp 220v motor for a dewalt 14" RAS
I would love to see videos of you guys taking apart, cleaning, repairing, and tuning old woodworking machines like this.
That was quite brave of you cutting a 4" tall board with 3/4" fence. You got balls man. I had a 50's era craftsman 30+ years ago and I almost gave up woodworking because I spent about half of my time tuning up my saw every time I moved the saw out of square.
Love to see this tool highlighted, very cool John. For anyone curious to get back to "where it all began" and learn from a master - look for the name Mr. Sawdust. Proud to say he was my grandfather, he brought the original DeWalt to market back in the 1950s, and literally "wrote the book" on it decades later - you'll see it referred to simply as "the book" or "the Bible" in RAS circles. :) Here's a video of him doing a live demonstration a while back - ruclips.net/video/gwnfDCgaof4/видео.html - he was a real showman, and the RAS was like an extension of his own body, the way he used it.
Very cool to hear from Mr. Kunkel's family. Happy to say that I built his table for my inherited RAS and its a great asset in my shop. I dont have the beautiful cast version so I use it mostly as a crosscut tool. But it can cut boards over 14" wide which is wonderful. Thanks for commenting.
From Mr Sawdust’s musings you will find that Mr. Dewalt invented the saw in the twenties. The 50’s was the heyday of the quality RAS. Dewalt was sold AMF and they sold to Black and Decker in the early 60’s and the race to the bottom for RAS’s started soon after. You can still buy a copy of the quality 50’s era Dewalt saws from The Original Saw company, but that will cost you closer to $5k. starting!
@@tonyblanco305 Nothing beats a solid "Mr. Sawdust table", well worth the time it takes to make one.
The insane versatility and “jet-like” sound of a well tuned RAS is what initially drew me to woodworking. I have 3 RAS’s and use each one for different functions. It’s mind boggling that 90% (no, that’s NOT an actual statistic u hacks!) of the old Dewalts made in the 50/60’s still run and perform.
Welcome to the club brotha, happy to have a sick-eff like you spinning one of these gems! 👊🏼
both of mine still run a treat - I have overhauled the motor and guide bearings a couple of times
I remember running a radial arm saw at high school in the 70's. My favourite saw. Follow the safety instruction and you could cut almost anything with it. It ran on 220V and cut as smooth as silk. When I got the chance I bought a Shopsmith in the early 80's for my home workshop and I'm still using that to this day as my bandsaw (with attachment system) as well as my lathe and table saw. I have an outboard drill press as well as a sanding station so seldom use the Shopsmith for those function these days but I still have the attachments to do that if I wanted to. The horizontal boring function of the Shopsmith was something I used when I was building some furniture and chairs years ago.
Awesome! I have an old 60s Yuba Tool Works radial arm saw as well as an old Rockwell Delta tablesaw. Love those old tools. Radials can do some pretty amazing stuff, I have a drill chuck and a thickness sander that work on mine, along with a box of other adapter things. It has the arbor for putting the saw blade on, as well as a short shaft out the other end of the head to attach the drill chuck. The chuck will take router bits, shaper heads, and a Wagner Safe-T-Planer. That second shaft is key, it unlocks all kinds of other add ons, there's a pulley you can mount so you can use the motor to drive other things via a standard V belt. Mine does all the same movements as the second one, but is sized closer to the first. It's been a bit since I used mine, but I don't think mine even has a brake on the blade. Takes just as long to wind down. Older units like mine have some incredible flexibility and are rock solid, much more accurate than the Delta.. Seeing it used to make tenons makes me want to dust mine off and try that out....
That motor on the second saw sucks, but it probably is repairable. Maybe a bad winding, worn out capacitors, centrifugal switch, etc. All are replaceable or repairable and cheaper than buying a new motor.
Since '93, the radial arm saw has been a constant in my high school shop classroom. Despite my shift to special ed in the last seven years, it still serves its purpose, even if I'm not its main operator anymore. My students may prefer crafting birdhouses, but the saw still gets the job done, mostly for rough cuts. It's in good hands with the current teacher and students, and who knows, maybe one day it'll be a vintage relic celebrated for its durability.
PS I came upon an old 1971 Dewalt radial arm all-cast iron for free about a year ago. An old woodworker passed away and the family gave it to me.
The radial arm saw is my favorite shop tool. We've had one since I was a little kid. If used properly it's as safe as a table saw.
So not very safe at all? Let's be real, even doing everything right, its a roll of the dice every time. Some of us will get lucky and keep our fingers intact, others not so much.
I've had a RAS in my shop for 40 years - cheap and useful. My current one is a 10" Dewalt that matches your Delta. Mine floats through wood flawlessly because I only use it for 90 degree crosscuts and I only use a blade with a negative rake (Freud 60T sliding Miter with -5 degree rake, LU91R010 works great!) These are very complicated saws to set up because all the parts and the table adjust in relationship to each other and it takes me the better part of an afternoon (and a few RUclips videos) to get the table, fence, arm and arbor on mine in proper alignment. Set it up and then leave it. The reason they fell from grace is that as soon as you start rotating the head or the arm to do all those crazy cuts, it never returns to alignment suitable for cabinetry tolerances thus only being useful for "half lap real estate signs". If I need to make a miter cut, I pop out the fence rail and replace it with one having a 45 degree triangle of plywood attached and cut without moving the arm. Also, make sure the saw is shimmed in the front to tilt slightly backward. The motor head will float on a well adjusted saw and you don't want it sliding down the arm into a piece of wood toward you while you are setting up a cut. Good luck!
You must not have set it up right. I run a 1953 DeWalt 14” radial. It took me about 3 hours to get it set up and dialed in. That basically meant leveling the entire saw stand with leveling feet so that the underside of the arm was dead level both across the ways and down the underside of the arm. And then leveling the table. ( a level arm trams to a table that is level ) And then adjusting the 3 axies of the carriage to get the blade dead plumb and square to the fence. Key to this set up was shifting the saw from 90 to 45 degree cuts and then back again, to make sure the stop levers were tight enough to always return the saw to dead accurate 90. Making sure there is no slop on either side of the alignment locking pawls is critical. But I can say that my friend’s $800 Bosch multilink miter saw can’t even come anywhere near the repeatable accuracy of the DeWalt. I would advise against getting any of the Black and Decker era, lighter weight radials. The 1950’s DeWalts massive cast iron arms will prevent the saw blade from climbing out of any cut. If you are having this problem then your arm and or column have too much play in them to be rigid and this might explain your problem with repeated accuracy. Do NOT set your saw to tilt backwards. You want the arm and table to be dead level, to simplify set up and ensure accuracy. A negative hook blade should help reduce the ‘feel’ of the saw pulling itself thru the wood- but this is largely just a matter of folks thinking they have to pull the saw thru the wood, rather than realizing they are actually Braking the saw with their hand, more than pulling it… Its a little unnerving at first, but once you get used to it, its not unsafe, because the saw can’t do anything but follow the arm, anyway. Rather than that, if you want the carriage to tend to return on its own, then simply install a spring wound return reel on the arm that will use a coiled spring and cable to pull the carriage back when you let it go. A return reel will also counteract the tendency of the saw to pull itself thru the stock as well. You can buy return reels from The Original Saw Co. website.
I learned woodworking on my Dad's Craftsman radial arm saw and you're right, you definitely have to get comfortable with the pull. He remodeled the entire house including building 40+ custom cabinets for the kitchen, bathrooms and basement. Compound miters became popular after that and that's all I've ever had in my own shop but he still does everything with the radial arm and has never had a miter saw in his shop.
5:00 are we just going to just ignore that you hurt yourself already on this tool? haha
Great RAS. I have a DeWalt 14” Model GA. It is a 220V single phase that I rebuilt and shared on RUclips. I’m guessing yours is also and wired to run on 110V (which is less than ideal). I’m also thinking your motor bearings are shot that is why your saw takes forever to stop.
He’s right about the bearings. With new bearings my 16” GE slows down faster than John’s.
I had to use an old Radial Arm Saw in shop class that looked just like these. It was either a Black&Decker or DeWalt. The only guard was a metal ring. And this wasn’t that long ago it was around 4 or 5 years ago. I actually preferred this style saw over the newer saws.
Picked up a Sears saw from the curb about 6 months ago, had no clue what it was, know I know! I had no idea it tilted, just that it swung. Was planning on fixing it up, bunch of rust, still need to find out if the motor even works lol dang thing feels 50 #s If not more. Had the base, no legs. Proud of my find! Thanks for the educational vid!
All the grumpy old guys that got mad at you about the shop smith thing are going to lose it lol
It's not the old guys that are scared. It's the young guys that are either scared or ignorant/unsafe.
@@barnyardkh4 my comment Said nothing about being scared or unsafe. Go cry to someone else.
@@gatorb8 Who's crying?
Midweek Malecki🎉
How bout that?
@@JohnMaleckiUnscrewedlet's go!😮
you are more entertaining to watch than most ive seen so far, and no bs included on reviews
I learned how to use one in school back in the ’80s. Our shop had proper industrial equipment, which meant it was also extremely dangerous. Most of it was surplus or retired government machinery. The radial-arm saw is still one of my favorites.
ANY tool can be dangerous
It's how YOU respect and use them that make them safe
Its how the blade turns towards you. They bite more than others. I use mine for dados only.
There are 3 main power tools that give me anxiety, the table saw, routers and electric hand planers. I feel pretty confident when using my planner but still every time before using it in my head im seeing all the horrible things that blade can do lol. I use my more powerful routers as little as possible. But a table saw I still just can't bring myself to own. I don't trust myself, it just takes a split second of lack of concentration and a hand is sucked in, or being stupid and let it fling something. The other tools I can power stance and have everything secured down.
Obviously any tool can be dangerous, some are just more inherently dangerous than others.
My dad had a shopsmith that was a Tablesaw, Bandsaw, Shaper-table and Lathe all in one unit. It was his favorite tool ever.
I think it could also use a sanding disc
I worked in a frame mill for about 15 years at a furniture company and by far the most dangerous piece of equipment we had was the radial arm saw. We had two dudes that were allowed to run, two old hands that knew what they were about. After they left I put it on a storage trailer and it's sits there still as far as I know.
I grew up doing projects with dad and grand dad, but did shop, mechanic school and theater set building and home ec. I truly wish they would bring those back along with math of money, teach budgets understanding interest etc. I believe it helped a lot of kiddos learn real life skills to succeed as adults.
First stationary power tool I ever bought was the same Delta 10" radial. That was 40 years ago. I was taken in by the supposed "versatility" it offered. After attempting my first rip, and even with youthful invincibility, it occurred to me that, "this is really dangerous." I still have the saw for nostalgia's sake but haven't used it in years. Still kind of cool to have around.
I learned woodworking in my dad's shop with his 10" Craftsman radial. Whenever he put the blade in the horizontal position (usually for cheek cuts on tenons), I would refer to it as " the kill position."
I didn't realize I was into this sort of thing until the algorithm suggested your video. Now I can't stop watching
I worked with one of these as part of a holiday job where it was used to cut slats to form the center of big cable drums. This was a beast driven off 3-phase motor. When designed for a purpose with some sensible safety features it was not too bad. This one had a brake on the motor and a big estop on the nose of the radial. The cutting forces when cross cutting mean the work stays still and the key problem is when it tries to climb onto the work. You are normally standing to one side when making cuts as well. This one was solid enough that it just stalled the blase and u hit the estop.
With a decent fence those angled tenons look look an ideal use case.
I think with some of the new thin kerf bldes like the diablo I currently would mean that the forces would be a lot more favorable for these cuts
So one thing nobody seems to know about radial arm saws, and I never see this mentioned: Radial arm saws have a 99% dust collection efficiency when doing rip cuts, using the factory blade guard---no dust escapes to the floor, and the factory blade guard comes with a built in vacuum attachment on ALL radial arm saws.
When you adjust the blade guard to do a rip cut, the angle of the blade guard and the unusual rotation of the blade, it actually pushes the sawdust straight into the vacuum. I use a small 18 volt Milwaukee round canister vacuum that I can set off to the side of the radial arm saw table, and while rip cutting small pine boards, there isn't a single granule of dust left over.
There is no other saw with this level of dust collection using the stock blade guard on a rip cut. However, on crosscuts the blade guard no longer works properly, and you get a giant plume of dust covering your entire garage wall.
For most of my childhood, all my Dad had for a stationary power saw was a radial arm saw. We used it for everything, ripping, with the wood behind the blade, cross cutting, rabbets, dados with a stacked dado head, tapered legs with a jig. We even had a chuck for doing horizontal drilling- used for dowel joints all the time. Our results were pretty good and we all maintained our fingers and arms. I still have Dad's saw- a super-heavy cast-iron Craftsman from 1968. However I also have a table saw, compound miter, etc. It's pretty much used for wide cross cuts now.
That’s awesome I have a 1943 delta Rockwell that was my grandfathers. Thing cuts like a dream just needs a little love. This was my first saw and have used it for 8 years now
Oh man, that dewalt deserves some love, what a great setup it has. My job has some older machines like that man man when you get to know the machine and tune them in, that old school tech just rocks. Love it.
Thank you for for putting this together. I learned a lot. I saw Dusty's shorts and looked into buying one. Not many companies sell them today probably because of all the dangers you pointed out.
I think John knew to not say anything negative about the radial arm saw after his shop smith review 😂. Lots of fun. Groovy job
I had my own joinery business. My main machine was a DW125 radial arm saw . I used it for all tenant cuts and bevels . I still have my moulding blocks and cutters. I'm retired now and sold everything but i do miss these toys .
John, throw the first saw in the dumpster. Get an older, larger delta. The best ones had a center hung saw arm under the main boom arm . The entire arm rotated under the boom. Find a 12 or 14 inch.
I heve one in my saw lineup. Three saws on one fence. One dewalt 12 in compound on the left, a dewalt 12 dual bevel slide compound in the middle, and a very old delta center arm radial on the left. I leave a dado head in the delta death trap❤😂
The second saw needs a starter capacitor in the worst way. You WILL burn out the "run" windings if you keep using it like that. Pull the motor and send it to a motor shop to get freshened up. That thing will be a beast when you get it back!!!
Cut and bleeding on a bladeless tool at 4:19 and the electrical tape patch up at 5:00, loving it
Probably the first fair assessment of the RAS. That GR definitely has an issue with the motor. I think you could get 3 phase motors on that model. I think the DeWalt peaked in the mid 50’s: solid machines with the best motors.
14" saw looking kimda like a guillotine there for a second 😂...she took off like hell when you tried turning the head
Shine-o-blade-o is a new one on me! Also legend has it that even today, that blade is still spinning down...
The James Bond Oddjob saw! I remember my Pap having one of these. I also remember my Pap missing half his thumb (lol, unrelated work accident). H2P!
We had one of these in shop class. It was in the corner with a plexi glass case around it. As a reminder of tools past that we don't need any more lol
Every I time watch a craftworking video like this, I think "why tf did I click on this?" and "definitely liking and subscribing and watching a ton more" almost simultaneously.
I have my oldest brother's 10" ras, which is nice because he has passed on and every time I use it, I think of him. I use it almost exclusively for cross cutting. I have also made coved molding for furniture with it by moving stock left/right across the blade when the head is locked on the arm in position. With a bit of height and forward/back head position finessing you can form a "trough" on a piece that you finish on the router table.
Will happily watch both channels, if its been buggin some traditionalists seeing more random stuff on your main then fair play i say. Also had a huge 16" dewalt radial arm saw at the first job i was in, was the loudest thing in the shop and scariest tool to get used to! Keep tight ahold!!
I am a wood shop teacher at a public school. Absolutely hated the radial arm saw in my shop because the students just had too many close calls. I bought a used miter saw to replace it and crazy enough the school informed me our insurance went down because of that. Then our insurance went down again when I purchased a saw stop for my students.
Unfortunately I live in a district where I am given a $0 budget for our wood shop but I am still expected to teach. I have to provide my own tools and materials for my students with money from my own pocket. I try my best to teach as many skills as I can but it is hard to teach without the proper funds.
Love how well built that Dewalt is. Get it more power and keep using it in future videos!
We got a big radial arm saw to cut aluminium extrusion (50x360mm) and modified it to be more safe, first we built a big alloy housing around the saw, added a square backstop, added a pneumatic ram to the saw so it slowly slides out and in with a simple lever and pneumatic rams that clamp the material in place when you cut
Hey John, put a little electromotor on the big guy so it changes hight much easier! That’s worth a new video. Love the new channel btw!
I have that same generation DeWalt saw in a 12" configuration. It is wired for 220v 1ph and spins up almost instantly.
Ripping down boards is terrifying. First time I tried it, a big piece of plywood went flying across the shop. Saw blade walked up on top of the board and sent it like a rocket.
We still run a radial arm saw in our restortion shop... we use it mostly for straight cuts and dados. Our is a comercial delta and the saw does have a spring loaded return and the safety guards are still in place
That's pretty sweet and I can definitely see how people found these bothy extremely useful and dangerous.
As to the stopping situation on those blades, you should screw a piece of lumber/plastic/rubber near the rear of the saw to use as a "stopper" for the blade after the motor is off as you can see they both bind up pretty bad with the weak motors while doing regular cuts meaning you could use that idea as a way to keep the blade from just spinning forever.
I have a Craftsman RAS from about 60 years ago I bought new when I was a kid. I use it nearly every time I work in the shop. Great for breaking stock down. Get a blade made for RAS....negative rake teeth. As an aside Emerson made them for Sears and they will pay you $50 to disable one and take it out of circulation.
I had an original Craftsman RAS and I ended up getting rid of in in 2018 after my parents passed away. Last year I found (2) on MarketPlace. Rebuilt one and its great. Other one I never knew existed. It's a 10" Craftsman RAS on a 6 drawer cabinet. Rebuilt that one also be realize they take up WAY to much space in my garage to keep. Lap joints and dados are a breeze on them. I just miss my original radial arm saw. I'm in Lancaster Pa
I just wanted to say, I grew up around my dads Craftsman (I think 3 hp) radial arm saw. That thing was an absolute power house, and had some really cool features one of them being a resistance setting. It had a trigger and scroll wheel on the handle you could set, and without the trigger pulled, the saw head would not move. You could set the speed with the scroll wheel and pull the trigger and it would only pull as fast as it was set to. You could put your body weight into that saw, but it would move at one steady pace according to the setting. I also feel like i remember it would auto home itself to the back of the machine when you let go, so it would always sit furthest away from the user. No doubt a dangerous saw, but arent they all? I loved using that radial arm saw when i was older.
That's awesome to hear that the second saw was made in Lancaster, I live in Lancaster county and never new dewalt had a plant here.
Original saw company makes new clones of old Dewalt saws not sure whether they have what you want but worth a look
I learned on one of those mitre saws. My grandfather taught me, it was a craftsman brand. I was around 12 im in my 40s now and i still have it.
I have had an old Craftsman with a cast iron rail in my shop for about 30 years. I use it for making 90° crosscuts and dados only. For angles or tricky cuts I have other saws/equipment for that. Of course a push stick is of no use with this saw. What I call a hold stick is useful when working close to the blade. I really like the old codger but am well aware of its useful functions and dangerous functions. Thanks for your great youtube vid.
I've got an old DeWalt cast iron radial arm saw that one of my brothers-in-law picked up for like $50 at a garage sale. I have it
set up just for cross-cutting and use it to cut 8-foot boards down to a manageable length. It is SO much easier than fooling with a circular saw and certainly easier than trying to cross-cut anything that long on a table saw. But I would never consider using it for anything other than cross-cuts.
I used to buy my hardwoods from a dealer who had a huge old radial arm saw and that puppy had some power behind it. It would easily cross-cut several 4/4 boards at a time. It was LOUD and took forever to finally stop spinning.
My great grandpa used a radial arm saw on a near daily basis for like 50 years and still had all his fingers and thumbs when he passed at 94 years old.
the Craftsman's had the motor carriage mounted with "cam" rollers so you could adjust the slop out of slide motion. It took me years to figure out that there was also an adjustment where the arm attached to the post that removed any side to side motion. When the motor on my inherited 10" 110v died on I found a 12" 240v on CL. I love this thing. I use it almost exclusively to crosscut. I would recommend a taller fence when doing short edge of the tenons and the dovetails.
I went to carpentry school in 1990. Every piece of equipment was from England and was manufactured in the early 60's. Each floor mounted piece weighed close to 1000 pounds. It was quite an impressive shop both in terms of equipment and size. The radial arm saw had a 20" blade. The teacher set it up to demonstrate how dangerous ripping with it could be if you didn't know how to do it properly. When he fed a 2' long piece of 2x4 into it the wrong direction it flew 20' across the room like a bullet and took a chunk out of the solid concrete wall it hit. That saw was only ever allowed to be used for 90 degree cross cutting.
Just a fun fact: Original Saw Company still makes radial arm saws right here in the USA. The RAS designs from DeWalt had been sold off at some point and then eventually wound up with OSC. And they're very, very expensive.
Also the RAS was invented way back in 1922!
Great video. Cool old saws. I started with a Craftsman radial arm saw 40 years ago as the "universal" solution. It wasn't, and I soon moved on to a table saw and various chop saws. I love the Seabee flag! Retired CMCS.
I have an older craftsman radial arm saw and I got it free, and it was all jacked up and tight, I went through and cleaned and oiled it all up and that thing is like a hot knife through butter in every motion now. I love it and have never had any close calls or issues at all. *Knock knock* but I respect it. Which is something you gotta do with any spinning blade tool. It's all common sense but such a thing is less than common anymore....
That's what I have too. 80's craftsman. I really like it.
I’ve used those saws for my entire career. I personally love them. We have 2 really large ones. I mostly do construction though. So i make a lot of big, repetitive cuts with them. But i’m really glad to have upgraded to newer ones with a few more safety features. I’ve also been teaching apprentices for a few years now. You can’t always trust them with exposed blades that keep spinning for longer than a few seconds…
I worked in a shop that had one of these setup for doing bevel miter rips and nothing else. Possibly one of the sketchiest tool using experiences of my life.
Also, if it's accurate enough, i could see putting a router bit on and using it to flatten end grain cutting boards instead of a router sled. Maybe not as accurate (or safe) as a router sled, but probably cheaper than a sled and router and definitely cheaper than a CNC
I have a couple of 50s Dewalt radial arm saws, and I think they’re great! One’s set up with a single blade and the other is set up with a dado stack. Eventually I want to build a miter station with them side by side like how Frank Howarth has his setup, but aligning both arms with a single fence and creating a long perfectly flat surface is a little daunting.
Now it’s time to get really sketchy and find an old swing saw!
RAS was my favourite tool in woodworking at school. recently bought my own ryobi ra-2500. Having now watched more videos on them, the one I got is in surprisingly good shape. I'd love to get some of the router and shaper attachments for it somehow.
i used one at school and it was awesome always thought it was precise but didnt know it could do anything else but cut 90* cuts so its cool to know what else it can do
WOW!!
That’s amazing!! I want one for my birthday. If my father was alive and the saws were over here it would be on my list!!
Brilliant!!!
Bob
England