Episode 40 - Batta Fast at the T20 World Cup - Tournament Review and ranking Pak's worst ICC events
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2024
- As our period of massive viewcounts (lol) ends before it really began, we review a depressing campaign, outline the many causes for failure, and end up ranking the worst ICC events for the Pakistan's men's team this century.
0:30 Batta Fast revenue streams destroyed
2:00 Babar's captaincy, the fallout, the tactical issues
11:00 Why PSL success hasn't translated for this team
18:00 A look at PCB's mystifying selection process
22:00 Disastrously unstable era at the PCB
24:20 "Even for Pakistan cricket, this is a wild era"
36:00 Reviewing this tournament in light of others
37:30 Ranking the all-time worst ICC events for Pakistan
38:30 2006 Champions Trophy
40:30 2007 ODI World Cup
44:00 2009 Champions Trophy (the fallout)
48:00 2013 Champions Trophy
49:00 2015 ODI World Cup
51:00 2014 T20 World Cup
52:00 2016 T20 World Cup
55:00 2023 ODI World Cup
59:00 Final Rankings 
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Pure gold boys please never stop. This shit is therapeutic for me I swear to God lol
I think there's a great implicit point made here - there is something about the team that *was* working very well and not that long ago. Right up to the Asia Cup in Sri Lanka I'm pretty sure every commentator / analyst from A Sports to wherever was raving about Pakistan's white-ball side, ODI and T20. That it stopped mattering 'how' we got to the finals in the last T20 world cup including a now famous 152-0, or even that we dominated our way to semi-final of the previous T20 world cup (even if conditions were favorable to us). Something was accidentally and somewhat intentionally really working well. But I don't think anyone really knew what that was - team cohesion, talent, RELATIVELY stable PCB board, wings of destiny or whatever - nor did anyone want to look at fixing the cracks that were of course there then as well.
With the deeply unstable national environment with the rotating over-powered PCB chairs given our rotating under-powered prime minister-ships and a culture of commentary that is about either celebrating how incredible the team is OR how horrific it is (Waz even going as far as being this hyperemotional after Pakistan's loss to the USA saying all the players should be thrown out, all while wanting to build A Sports which would be a 'quality' analysis space).
So you have to cut the powers of the PCB chair to something like Pakistan's presidents - change some aspects, take the credit for successes in politics, whatever it is - and stabilize the management and performance-orientation of the board. We barely have gyms that work at the moment. Forget data. Forget emotional counseling/mental health support.
And we ALWAYS SEEM TO FORGET the deeply classist environment that we operate in. The players are not from well-off financial backgrounds. That's also what makes them heroes when they are heroes. But when they become the sole source of financial stability and a huge source of pride for their *wider* families, and they see the instability at the board level, the commentary turn against them, and the fans be hyperemotional one way or another - of course they will very understandably scramble to protect their spot however they can. You can't make anyone fearless just independent of the environment they operate in - they have a lot more to lose than 'national pride' and the patriotic opportunity stuff - many of us are pretty disillusioned with patriotism anyway and the honour of wearing a Pakistan shirt has been devalued by the leaders of Pakistan in any case, decade upon decade. Toh expecting some twenty-year olds to carry their shirt in this deeply insecure environment, with patriotic pride, fearlessly is outright nonsensical. You can't fix Pakistan, but you can stabilize the board if the chair's powers are curbed.
English players have plenty of income, plenty of part-time opportunities outside of cricket, their clubs pay well, they have free higher ed opportunities, social security nets, what not. Bazball could not exist without the social security of a rich nation.
And we've been here before. This circus either has a 2 year cycle or a ten-year cycle, but it's the same circus. Cricket has so far survived the fates of squash and more, but there's no guarantee it'll continue doing so across generations.
itni lambi comment usually farigh hoti hai but excellent points throughout here, especially on class.
Lovely to see Osman bhai saying LPC to Wahab Riaz’s WC 2015 spell. That horrible worm is probably the most toxic man around the team at this point.
I agree dude. But not sure what lpc means..
@@shahp88 it means L pe charh. Arguably, Urdu equivalent of F-off/you.
@@ProsperousPakistanoh man would have loved Osman to have said this out loud as I wondered what it was lmao. But Wahab has been dining out on 2011 and 2015 for his career it seems and unfortunately it has paid dividends with influential positions he doesn't deserve
That spell, only Watson was influenced by the solar eclipse of it. Smith was Middling every ball on the other end
Honestly I was thinking that what has that prick done for Pakistan cricket working as an analyst former environmental minister ... played his part with full passion to screwed the team
The 2013-16 era of cricket wiped out an entire fanbase. And those who persisted, now have podcasts. 😂
I had completely forgotten the trauma of that era. Wow. Felt like I aged 20 years during those 4 years.
💯
White ball era of 13 to 16 was horrible but for red ball it was Pakistan's peak under misbah
hahahaha imagine those of us who started a podcast right as that era kicked off! #PiPY
Lards key pushup yaad karo jawan
Afridi wasnt injured in 2007 worldcup, he was banned for 3 matches for trying to shove a bat in a spectator's face in South Africa who said something to him in the 4th ODI, when he got out and was climbing the stairs back to the pavilion
The incident occurred in the first ODI. Afridi played in the second one while a decision from the disciplinary committee was pending and he did rather well. Scored a quick fire 70 odd and took a few wickets. He was then banned for 5 ODIs which resulted in him missing the rest of the series and the first two WC games.
that is the level of education these guys have!! I hope they ban haris rauf for atleast a game
yes correct i misremembered. what a guy
A whole ass movie series needs to be made about the pakistan cricket. Like it will be blockbuster. I hope someone makes it.
The only sane cricket analysts in Pakistan right now, keep up the good work, the view counts will follow in time once your production quality improves.
what would you like to see in the production quality?
@@BattaFast To be specific , better audio quality and video quality especially on Osman's end. In general my preference would be a nice setup behind the mic with special attention to lighting. Because no matter how good your content is jo dikhta hai wo bikta hai 😂
Your show is therapy for a pak kirkit fan. Bohot shukriya naujawano
Thanks for yet another thoughtful and insightful podcast, guys! The only Pakistani cricket podcast I wait for.
So so good. thoroughly entertaining guys. A brilliant job done.
kinda disagree on the fact that we don't keep tullays... Fakhar has built his respect and career off of that, same with Shahid Afridi. Stats aside, most of the guys from the past 5 years just fail the eye test, and Saim doesn't. A lot of our players are selected purely from the eye test, how capable someone looks batting
Thank you for the show. Keep going.
One under discussed part of this latest loss is that Pakistan played with not 2 or 3 but dream 4 pacer combo who are their absolute best in last few years. It was huge luck to get them all fit at same time and get the perfect conditions for them.
Best podcast on cricket hands down. You guys are deeply knowledgable and Ahmer's sense of humor is icing on the cake! 😂 Keep it up lads!
Name names. Who was the board official that said that to Asif Ali?
Also, the reason why these players can’t translate it on the international stage is our coaches. There was a video a while back of Mohd Yousuf being asked about power hitting and his response was something like “power hitting kuch nahi hoti. Saeed Anwar Hamare Zamane ka sab se aggressive player tha aur woh technique se khelta tha”
These a-holes are still stuck in their “glory days” and trying to take us back to the 90s which btw wasn’t a successful time for PCT either. Post 92 we didn’t win any ICC tournament
Ramiz in this WC coverage as a analyst was very clear that S/R doesn't matter, Babar and Rizwan are best because of number of runs they score consistently.
Amazing episode. Can you discuss the hafeez interview with Vaughan and gilly on the next episode
Babar Azam should've followed Kohli when he was removed from captaincy, kept focus on his batting, silencing people with his performances, thus becoming the MVP (irreplaceable)
Agreed
He doesn't have the skills and seems cognitively impaired. His achievement is showing off his new Audi on social media.
It directly makes a difference when 2 educated people discuss a topic. Same as Down the track.
You guys need to make a ranking of the most painful losses. Mohali e 1999 WC final come to my mind as first thoughts.
Instead of counting 2013,2014,2015 as a trilogy lol
Should just include 2016 world t20 in there as well and make it a 4 part all time horror show lol
we did at the end
@@BattaFastyes sorry, I should’ve finished the episode before commenting 😂 love the pod, can’t wait to hear Ahmer analyze Pakistan vs Bangladesh tests 😝
You guys should do an episode about what or who saved pakistan cricket after the trilogy
I personally feel that the 2013-16 era would have been better had fawad alam played regularly throughout them years in place of umar akmal. I remember him playing memorable innings in a asia cup around then, where he got a hundred in a final after Pakistan was about 50 for 5 much better than any of misbah s performances in white ball cricket and he played a good innings with afridi vs Bangladesh. Then for some reason was dropped in the 2015 world cup. Just a question, do you think misbah kept him out because he felt threatened by him?
Hi Ahmer, big fan. Also thanks to Osman for his Bumrah piece.
Waiting for your Germany like treatment for Australia😂😂.
IMO, don’t you think the ICC charter does not let teams like Pakistan to rebuild. Every six month there is World Cup coming up. This does not give space for anybody to focus on the process and just aim for the glory. Everybody knows that after the World Cup, they are not going to be around. Players are always under the pressure to win the next cup. The Amir and Imam saga allures to these the thing I am talking about.
Would love to hear your opinion on this.
100% plus the aimlessness of other matches makes it harder to rebuild but I still think it can be overcome. I also think it doesn't help with expectations for fans since you would need some time and thus bad results to rebuild.
Isn't that true for every team though?
teams with better structures and regular series can overcome it better IMO
Please make a podcast on the worst campaigns. Unfortunately all of my childhood cricket memories are from 2011 - 2016.
Peak misbah era 😂
@@muhammadasad696 yess well I did loved his test captaincy 😌
I mean the first thing one would want to do is not to hear about Pakistan cricket, because they are so good at one moment and the worst next.
I mean you both are so good that you could just make a talk about Pakistan cricket so amusingly humorous one can't believe.
Its just one podcast i love hearing to and the reason is both of you.
Love both Ahmer and Osman's talks ❤
P.S. I'm an Indian
It seems like that spot number 2 will eventually also become another trilogy 2023wc , 2024WT20 and 2025CT based on how things are going.
I did not follow cricket much in the period 2007-08 so on a personal level this 2024 campaign is definitely the worst. Ahmer describing how it felt watching the Ireland game in 2007 is basically me in the USA game. Cherry on top is that a group of us friends bought tickets to a couple of Super 8 games in Barbados, so now we are going to watch USA vs WI and USA vs Eng.
42:10 just to add to the comedy, Afridi in fact was not injured for the 2007 World Cup. He had managed to get himself suspended for 4 ODIs during the previous series in South Africa for swinging his bat at a fan (or something). That ban ended after the Ireland match.
I hope you answer this because im genuinely curious, who do you think is a leader capable of leading this pakistan white ball side?
Shaheen and shadab are both PSL winning captains who can do the job
Hello brothers please continue videos for this worldcup.
More or less agree with the Top 3, but interested to know why the 2004 Champions Trophy wasn't included in the analysis? That India win was a thriller and the Windies loss in the semis was traumatizing in itself!
Great call tbh
Osman’s explanation of 2013 CT and that era is hilarious ! Lolz . I was 13 years old back then and more passionate than ever for cricket and I can still resonate to that trauma which our ODI team and particularly the batting used to give us .
Absolute Gold ! 😂
And Misbah was the only run scorer back then and still got bashing by the media all the time and there was no PR campaigns back then to defend him . I really find that trauma hilarious now . 😂
Listening to Osman spit out stats of Shoaib Malik and Kamran Akmal in 2013 champions trophy, I'm remembering all the things about intent, bravery and all the other BS that both these accomplished athletes have said about babar and co sitting on TV. Only in Pakistan do you have such high level clowns entertaining all of us!!!
Rightly pointed out by Osman the 2006 Chapmions Trophy. Pakistan was coming back after the Oval test match controversy and Inzi was banned. We won against SL, lost to NZ & SA. At least batting wise that pretty decent side but got thrashed epicly. 2007 basically was the culmination of all the mess that started in 2006. 2007 was supposed to be the peak of guys like Afridi, Malik, Razzaq, Yousuf. Like all the young class of players that had come around the late 90s to early 2000s but unfortunately they couldn't do anything. Basically the lost generation of Pakistan cricket. Massively talented but achieved none. Bit like how Pakistan was entering into a similar sort of mess.
Apparently establishment cant afford another charismatic and smart captain in cricket. You know what in mean 😋
TIL I am sadistic because I used to enjoy Misbah ODI innings from 2013-15
Love the show but we need to get Osman bhai a better mic fr
Afridi was banned for some games due to the ban he had received for hitting some fan in SA during the ODI series in early 2007.
Interesting as always. I will just add to this, that in my opinion, 2022 T20 World Cup was probably the worst and what made it really worst was, how a game that had nothing to do with us promoted Pakistan to the second place and we played an opponent that we beat easily in most ICC tournaments, and then in the final game, we were just as timid as we should have been. Our bowling stats are great even in the world cups where we perform too badly, but the batting in this world cup and the previous one was the worst.
Yeh zyada ho gaya
Position for position none of our top 6 would get into either england, Australia, South Africa, or India's team so to say that this team can be world beaters in T20 is beyond me. You need to bring in new players in the mix too increase competition and force these players to improve.
Honestly, 2012 to 2016 was the worst period for pakistan cricket... it started from Sri Lanka terror attacks... amir-asif-butt match fixing scandal ...
That period ended in the Champions League final win against india..
T20 World Cup is kind of a random tournament. If you are slightly average you will get screwed on a bad day. England was almost out in first round after just one loss to Aus. SA can still get out even get knocked out if they lose to WIn even after winning everything. Teams should just take this in stride. That said pak seems to be facing structural issues with new low on administration. I thought PSL and t20 leagues saved pak cricket but PCB not helping it right now.
Ahmed Sshezad ka bih eik time per comparison tah virat kohli se. Shakal milti tih dono ki.
wih comparision ahmed shehzad hi kerta tha
Shaan needs to be a part of the core group.
worst thing about pakistan getting eliminated early is fewer batta fast episodes(if thats the case). Love this podcast! please keep it going hehe
defo fewer!!
in 2007 atleast our captain cried on departure meanwhile this captain says im nt only at fault all 11 are
He was crying for his own retirement 😂
@@Lahoria9 he was crying that on his retirement he lost in first group but yes mainly for retirement :D
I don't think we can underestimate the devastating impact that Rizwan press conference did to the style of the Pakistan team as Ahmer alluded to in the pod. It basically put a line in the sand to prospective captains that "hey, don't mess with our positions if you want to have a chance to win" and in a dressing room where all players are cosy, it's very hard for anyone to dare suggest a change. Ultimately, they went back to it in the WC and will be shocked if that changes. (Please Gary, I hope you are given time to leave an impact on this and the next set of players 🙏🏽)
100%
I am a fan of Babar, and I feel we should make someone else captain, and let him focus on batting.
He'll be out of team then.
@@Lahoria9 he shouldnt be, he should still open, but with captaincy I think it effects his game. We always target 1 or 2 players but there are so many other faults effecting the team and i think babar's batting is very low down in the list.
Good to know even cricket writers abandoned watching #TeamMisbah
Even though Misbah-era ODI/t20 team achieved some sporadic success and at times type of success that no Pak team had achieved before (like winning first ever ODI series in SA, beating India in 2012), still those results were flash in the pan sort of stuff. The LOI batting in that era was hands down the worst in terms of talent, execution and performances. Bowling also - barring peak Junaid 2012-14 and Ajmal (who also had declined by 2014) was largely very average. So it was no surprise that Pakistan fared badly in 2013 CT, 2014 and '16 T20 WCs.
I would say 2023 50 over WC has to feature in this worst campaigns list. The team had all the bases covers (maybe apart from spin bowling) and was playing in favorable Asian conditions. We had arguably the best performing top 3 (Fakhar was out of form but once brought back, he almost single handedly took Pakistan to semis), solid middle order players and a decent fast bowling attack (Naseem's injury was a significant setback but still we had fast bowlers who had been performing very well until Asia Cup, 2nd match against India). But the way whole team flopped - led by the captain who was arguably the best ODI player in Pakistan's history - was simply inexcusable. To be honest, the team was even lucky to finish at number 5 as Afghanistan really performed better than Pakistan in the WC.
U guys missed ct 2004
Azam will have to work on his fitness in general, if he wants to play cricket either for Pakistan or any other league/franchise.
He is already playing for and has won several leagues
@@BattaFast how long will he be able to play like this?
Shahid Afridi didn't miss the first 2 games of the 2007 World Cup because of injury; he missed the games because of a ban he had received in SA ODI series earlier in the year.
yes someone pointed out elsewhere too - my bad
Cheers Ahmer bhai!
Already under-fire Shahid Afridi would have welcomed some respite though😅
You guys are doing a service to Pakistan cricket fans by doing this show. Considering the cricket shows trash we have had to bear for years on Pak media channels, this show almost feels out of place (positive sense of course).
Yr bhai ap shorts bnao aur vidro stream split kr dou 10 10 minutes yaa 15 minutes k. Awaam kaa focus span kam hu gaya hy. Just like t20 and pakistani team's dilema you guys need to evolve to cater to the viewer's focus span.
Underrated Pakistani bomb at an ICC event was the 2003 WC, I think that campaign had a lot in common with this one, old players playing cricket in the modern Era with an old mindset
Hmmm defo outdated tactics but most of this squad is in 20s and no one has played more than 7-8 years so not quite old and past it like 2003.
@@BattaFast Yeah, you're right, I just feel like I've seen these players for a realllly long time and they're actually not that old, they just seem old 😅
tournament exits so traumatizing that podcast recording ke darmyan me hi maaash banana parh gaya hahahha
hahahahahahah
I don't even remember 2013 to 2016 era.
Afridi was not injured in 2007 he was banned because he had an altercation with a fan in the series against south Africa just before the world cup. A stronger board would have appealed that ban
yes you're right!
Same thing is with indian football...you just can't blame footballers for the maladministration.... same is with Pakistan
Special Thank you to Osman bhai for calling out Wahab and his 2015 spell! G**** made a career out of a spell! I have long been saying that I don't even remember a single game WAHAB Riaz won for Pakistan and that spell was no good either except that a new to the crease Watson was getting his eye in!
and Ahmar THE GEM bhai, same meri umer bhi zada horahi hai k ye sadmay kabhi kabhi feel nahi hote!
5:30 one thing i would say is that ahmed shehzads range of shots is better than babar, he used to play great shots against pacers especially over the top
Aik episodes bats pay Kar saktay hain? Nerd level type info
will need to invite imran for that
did he say naseem is best bowler in world?
One of the best. Replay/rewind ki facility muft hai aur comment likhay se zyada asaan.
Ahmer and Osman, sorry but I disagree that players were playing with insecurities while administration and support staff was changing. You already showed that same players kept getting chances, and bar one series in NZ, Babar was the captain throughout with hardly any risk to his reign. I think players actually exploited this instability, proof: getting better contracts and compensation arrangements last year.
I hold players equally, if not even more accountable because it was the same bunch that failed over and over.
bhai the PCB is ripping them off on contracts, so they haven't done nearly enough to secure anything for the players. Every time the bosses change the whole situation changes so I can't accept that it doesn't cause any issues.
@@BattaFast
How is the PCB ripping them off?
@@basit6342 both with repeated arbitrary stances on NOCs and by not increasing their share of revenue pool
If Babar had so little faith in the management, he could have just said no to captaincy. You're being far too kind to a player who had unreal backing despite having absolutely shitty resume as a captain. A person who can't string together a sentence even in his native language shouldn't have been considered for captaincy in the first place.
PCB simply tried creating a "brand" a la Kohli and fell face first. Next in line: Naseem
next in line for waht?!?!
@@BattaFast Hype
Bro the most main reason is fitness level this guys are not think as professional athlete think worldwide to care about diet , muscle fiber cross training muscles gain , explosive training , resistance training , if u don have fitness your body will stiff not work according to u.. thats why our player never perform in pressure
Thanks for making me relive that trilogy era. My therapist says fuck you. 🫂
hahahaha let them earn that fee
I think Afridi was banned for 2 games because he had hit a fan in the last series in South Africa and Abdul razzaq was injured
yup
Pakistan needs to ask the question why are they no longer a top team in ODI and tests.Unless you get that right, you will continue to be a muddling team that excels in occasional tournaments and over 20 overs only.
osman should invest in a good mic or ahmer should also ditch the good mic.
The crappy sound quality from osman right after hearing ahmer just makes everything annoying.
osman did get a new mic its been acting up some times
Guys you went soft on 2016 - Afridi was supposed to undo the trilogy 😂
"Babar Azam is Don Bradman, AS is AS". 🔥🔥
Someone said it.
Abey Zimbabwer ka comparison Kisi Zimbabwe ke batsman se karain
Babar and don bradman 😂😂😂😂😂 the bubble these people exist in
2013 CT was way worse than 2006 CT , because in 2006 CT we atleast defeated a very strong Srilankan side.
In 2013 ct , we didn't win shit
point
India pivot kar lein for this WC views
koi views nahi aatay
Just a request for Osman (and ofc he can dismiss it completely cos its kind of my opinion) but PLEASE dont invoke Bradman for Babrar. When you say Babar is like Bradman, it super triggering. No one is like Bradman, the closest we have is Steve Smith. not even Kohli or Sachin are like Bradman. Ye zyati hai serious fans ke saath.
Also, no, Babar cannot be absolved of his bad captaincy and poor selection by invoking 'usko kya pata kal captain ho na ho, wo kis ko back keray". Nai yar come on. Bro was the most fully backed captain of the decade for Pak. 4 yrs and running. Theek hai the way he was dismissed was shambles but he should have been removed from captaincy a yr before the ODI WC.
steve smith like bradman, thats hilarious.
points but also could go either way
World cricket needs a stronger version of Pakistan so that the Indo-Pak cricket rivalry remains alive. Here in India, people are not very excited before or after the match. Last year during the Asia Cup and World Cup, and this year in the World T20, there was complete silence in my street after India won against Pakistan.
yeah it needs more regular cricket and hopefully bilaterals
Babar ko dafa karo is team se is ke mindset se Pakistan kabhi nahi Jeet Sakta
Cricket fans of Pakistan deserve a special award for overhyping Babar Azam so much. He literally has poor communication skills, timid body language, a defensive batting mindset, terrible record in high-pressure matches and shows tactically inept leadership.
Saim is going through a mental block
Saim is real talent he should be backed no matter what
100000%
O Bhai Ahmad shahazad is far better then Babar
Ahmed shehzad isnt even 50% of the batter babar is
Massive relatable moment when Ahmet said ‘07 loss made him wanna puke. I got jaundice after watching that game and I know it was the game and nothing else. 🥲